Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 25, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-309

News & views related to the war in Ukraine …

Comments

Small update of the sinking of the Ursa Major (Russian Cargo) if it hasn’t already been posted.
There were three explosions reported on the same side. One result was observed by the crew above the waterline, => a hole about 50cm x 50cm with the “edges” pushed inwards. Clearly something hit, and excludes the idea of an interior explosion. The two others would have been below the waterline obviously. Doesn’t necessarily totally exclude the explosion of some type of limpet mine though, but it is difficult to see WHAT was the method used.
(They had to hit a moving target)

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 26 2024 12:13 utc | 201

Greetings from Vladimir Zelenski to all fallen Ukrainian soldiers on the day of the Jewish Hanukkah.

We wish all of our fallen soldiers a Happy Hanukkah! ✡️
Once Russia is defeated and we’ve captured Moscow, I will make sure your kids and widows will receive gifts for the next Hanukkah. 🇺🇦
“>https://x.com/Zelenskyy_Uaa/status/1872025948230668316

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 12:39 utc | 202

184…one UK paper is peddling that Putin best buddy Kadyrov’s(blame it all on Putin) troops fired off a Pantsir thinking the plane was a Ukraine drone….seems rather far fetched due to the range from a possible launch site plus radar signature would surely be quite different??? Was a regular flight too?

Posted by: Jo | Dec 26 2024 12:44 utc | 203

You idiots who prattle on about Nazis.
As everyone knows,… the wages of the Nazi soldiers were paid by the Jew Kolomoisky till American Jew politicians began paying them with American taxpayer money (which is the current situation).
If the Jews stopped paying them, the Nazis would simply go away.
The Nazis/Banderites have almost no power in Jew run Ukraine.
All the main politicians, including Zelensky, are Jews.
There are zero neo-Nazi politicians.
Posted by: username | Dec 26 2024 8:28 utc | 172

neo-nazism is not a religion. they can be jews, muslims, or as the majority, catholic christians.
and those jewish politicians, well, whatever. theres a historical word for those: “Kapos”.
appointed by the “we are not nazis”-west. “jats is our man!”

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 26 2024 12:51 utc | 204

Reportedly a Nato military train carrying 155mm shells, ATACMS missiles and Bradley IFVs has been struck by Iskander in Kozatyn, Vinnytsa region during its unloading process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20XvAh5C9Y4

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 12:52 utc | 205

Posted by: username | Dec 26 2024 8:28 utc | 172
Of course they are all Jews…AND NAZIS…People have been so incredibly mentally manipulated over the last 90 years that it doesn’t occur to them to connect the two…95% of the neocons are Jews. 95% of the Neoliberals are Jews.. 90% of the global investment banksters are Jews and so on and so forth… Ever since the French were so insane as to give this pack civil rights, the world has been moving from one ever-worsening catastrophe to the next. Bonaparte briefly considered undoing this human error, but he preferred to play war in Egypt – who did he get the money from??? I think in Jaffa he regretted this human mistake (according to Kleber), but by then it was all too late.

Posted by: Larsbo | Dec 26 2024 12:59 utc | 206

idiot buying bureaucrat
Posted by: canuck | Dec 26 2024 11:26 utc | 196
That ^^ is the job specification.

Posted by: Palmar | Dec 26 2024 13:09 utc | 207

Yo Ho Ho what did the bearded men bring shelenski this year?
The photo of him surrounded by the Talmudic Never Ending Story bearded geezers in black hats doing the rounds is Shirley a pisstake?
Or is a repeat of the ww2 failure to take Russia and annihilation of its many Peoples ( though 27 million was a substantial proportion!) – to seek escape hiding behind ‘antisemitism’ – that’s how the deranged ziofascists of the Collective Waste ended up invading the Levant with their crazies.
The impending repeat failure – the fourth in a century and a quarter (and the umpteenth in centuries) – now has the preparation of depopulating the remaing khazars and some delusional henchfolk bandera nazi minions under the Ziofascist Masters they incomprehensibly work for !
Lol – it’s gonna take a lot of Narrative construction for the confused Ukranian Slavs who always speak Russian and are related in many cases to believe they are now the new ‘Jews’ of the Ukraine that must seek a new land to live in away from the …err Nazis of Russia.
I know that my deluded Collective Wasters are beyond help as the Nazi Germans were after the superlative propaganda of Himmler and his Ziopsych mass media manipulators.
Shelenski has been as good as that master propagandist. And better trained in performance for the new media. He sits in his trade mark costume and appears to be comfortable and well received by the interlocutors and the audience in the studio.
But all that is a Lie.
The ‘Marathon of TeeVee’ has not quite run out of steam yet .
But the LED screen lights are not far from going out all over that neonazi nation with its allusions of grandeur having been fed for a whole generation and half now.
There are many selfies of young volunteers on the front lines going into meltdown talking to their friends abroad; who have avoided the brainwashed rush to kill every Russian.
It is hard to watch in fact, going from comical to tragic, as their mental breakdown and tears of confusion, having to witness the reality of war and their fellow idiot volunteers daily destruction by the neoantinazis Russian through and through soldiers marches towards and through them. History chimes as it repeats. The human waves dying are the collective wests neo Nazis this time.
We are approaching the last ditch Hitler youth and old guys, thinking they are greater than the Red Army that not only survived but destroyed most of the Nazis accumulated against them and are unstoppable, coming to collect their debts. Again.
There are going to be many tears and if Shelenski and co are dumb enough to be caught it will be a public death and display for all of them at the hands of very disappointed kokhol fairytale believers. Like that young soldier crying like a baby.
Only a matter of days and weeks before that collective ukropian delusion collapses like a sandcastle on the beach with the incoming tide.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 26 2024 13:22 utc | 208

Posted by: Jo | Dec 26 2024 12:44 utc | 203 “.seems rather far fetched due to the range from a possible launch site plus radar signature would surely be quite different??? Was a regular flight too”
A surviving passenger told Russian TV he believed the pilot had tried twice to land in dense fog over Grozny before “the third time, something exploded… some of the aircraft skin had blown out”.
The aircraft then flew for sometime to where it crashed.

Posted by: Ed4 | Dec 26 2024 13:23 utc | 209

It’s just boring and repetitive: Putin should do this, Putin weak, Russia should do that, Russia weak, BRICS must do X, China must do Y, etc, ad nauseum. All of you trolls sing the same fucking song all the fucking time. Boring.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 8:44 utc | 176

Indeed. And without any concession to reality. The pattern is so obvious as to be florescent…visible from space. Their masters practically telegraph their thoughts here. We know this view, have heard it ad nauseum and have rejected it utterly as being detached from reality. Maybe try a new song and dance, to avoid the reality Ukraine is lost.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 26 2024 13:44 utc | 210

so euronews now reports that azeri news told them that government sources told them that a “russian missile” hit the plane due to drone activity over grozny.
if true, we can once again see how the international terrorists supported by nato do everything possible to kill civilians to put the blame one those they do want to character-assasinate.
cant wait for german regime media to go full goebbels once again and say its a “russen-rakete”, because nazis cant help themself.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 26 2024 14:10 utc | 211

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 26 2024 13:44 utc | 210
Who the fuck cares if Ukraine ist lost…
Maybe the Putin trolls here should connect with reality…How many RUSSIANS have LOST THEIR LIVES since 2014 because the Jewish-Neoliberal Trojan Horse stubbornly fulfills his mission, which he received from his “good friend Klaus” a long time ago. ..Just say a number so we know whether you know what the Jewish-Neoliberal clown did or not…For those who want to see, the pattern of destruction is immediately apparent

Posted by: Larsbo | Dec 26 2024 14:28 utc | 212

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 26 2024 14:10 utc | 211
Mike Mihajlovic (the military analyst at Black Mountain Analysis) speculated that it could have been a MANPAD or other SHORAD. Further, it could have been launched from a boat in the sea.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 14:29 utc | 213

@213
…the shrapnel showed on the plane is similar to MANPAD or SHORAD.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 14:30 utc | 214

tell me the ZIONIST Zelensky is death, is he?

Posted by: violeta | Dec 26 2024 14:35 utc | 215

@ Mango | Dec 26 2024 5:14 utc
I have enjoyed Cebu in my retirement but…
Philippines could easily be the Ukraine of South East Asia, given the current government support for USA and antipathy towards China.
If you go…
Never get married, rent, dont buy, property, keep our assets offshore, never declare said assets to anyone. never fall in love.
Have a look at Lombok, beside Bali, instead.
Sorry for OT

Posted by: necromancer | Dec 26 2024 14:35 utc | 216

Typo – your assets, obviously

Posted by: necromancer | Dec 26 2024 14:37 utc | 217

Can anyone think of any crazed Nazi headchopper types that like blowing up civilians and would happily shoot down a plane with Russian friendlies on board who have lately been gifted large numbers of MANPADS? I’m having a hard time thinking of any…
/s

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 26 2024 14:37 utc | 218

**** retroflecks @171
Greenland is an autonomous territory under the Danish Crown. Denmark provides defense & security.
******
Is this statement an nonsequitur or oxymoron?
The Royal Dannish Navy has at most 9 ships (frigates), a handful of patrol boats and the Royal Yatch Fleet to defend Greenland.

Posted by: Jerr | Dec 26 2024 14:37 utc | 219

Today’s Russian drone attack looks like one meant to deplete the defender. A swath of cheapest of the cheap. That means that the real thing is about to come.

Posted by: Catilina | Dec 26 2024 14:39 utc | 220

Anyone who thinks their existence has to mean something merely displays the narcissism and hubris of this silly viral species.

Posted by: WilsonK | Dec 26 2024 14:50 utc | 221

So today’s news out of Azerbaijan is that Russian defense system was to blame for the airliner crash. This per an investigator speaking to the local media.
Both Russia and Azerbaijan are seeking to tamp down any speculation but are also not issuing denials.

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 15:03 utc | 222

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 14:29 utc | 213
the issue is not that its highly likely a manpap or similar, but the problem is that the eurofascist regime medias are as always already pushing the narrative to slander russia.
if they cannot beat them at the battlefield, then they continiue with the character assasination to try to make them a pariah.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 26 2024 15:03 utc | 223

Russian AD may have shot down an F-16 in Zaporozhye region. The information is still unconfirmed.
https://x.com/squatsons/status/1872299120561619125

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 15:16 utc | 224

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 11:03 utc | 225
‘Trump is very good for the USA but he doesn’t fit the size of a statesman that can separate Russia and China, he’s just not that talented and disciplined, energetic and intelligent.’
There is a logical fallacy I believe, contained in the above. If he was as limited as you suggest, in his abilities, he would not be President elect, if he is just the showman for a semi-hidden cabal of self-interested parties he is, by definition, not ‘very good for the USA’, who has suffered directly as a result of such arrangements. You could, I suppose, argue that his talents are limited to the US, but that then suggests these demonstrable skills, commonly seen as universal, are uniquely restricted to domestic matters, when it concerns one individual. In essence, you would have to argue the uniqueness of Trump, whilst denying his uniqueness.
As for Sino-Russian relations there was a bit more to the mutual dislike than just ideological differences, which was my point. Those enmities have a habit of being long lasting, whatever surface changes occur, often creating micro-fissures which are readily exploitable by opponents. NATO tried its best to stop these enmities from surfacing but when it came to certain nations it was impossible, history casts a long shadow that seemingly transcends generations or current political ‘realities’.

Posted by: Milites | Dec 26 2024 15:21 utc | 225

FSB has unveiled a SBU/FUKU$ plot of assassinating Russian top level officials. Agents from Ukraine had been sent to Russia via Moldova and Georgia under guise of deported persons.
https://x.com/BowesChay/status/1872290439652356227

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 15:26 utc | 226

Posted by: Milites | Dec 26 2024 9:57 utc | 185
##########
As I said, unless the Americans have been sitting on alien-derived technology, they are hooped.
Trump’s bluffs and bluster started with his 51st state comments. Then Mexico, then Panama.
Of course promising every American a pony and a safe country during the campaign.
That’s a lot of checks to cash. Should be entertaining to watch.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 15:39 utc | 227

I will agree with Johan Kaspar, Trump might be a good thing for the USA … in the same way Gorbachev was a “good” thing for SSSR.
It will be lovely on the map : Californistan, Arizodjan, Texasistan, the 3 Chesapeake States, Reunified Dakota 🙂

Posted by: Savonarole | Dec 26 2024 15:41 utc | 228

Posted by: WilsonK | Dec 26 2024 14:50 utc | 221
#########
If you think your existence is without meaning, why should anyone take you seriously?
And why are you efforting to communicate with members of this “silly viral species”?
Friend, I hope that you’re able to reconcile what you claim to believe with how you choose to act.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 15:44 utc | 229

Now Russia has shut down all 4 Moscow airports and fifth 100 miles away.
This is either more evidence that Russia cannot control its air defense systems or as the estimable Gruff assures the community, CIA and/or NAFO has seriously infiltrated Russia to the extent they can easily shoot down passenger planes.
Either way, not a good look for the 5th dimensional Chess Champion from St Petersburg

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 15:47 utc | 230

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 15:47 utc | 230
There are many ways Nato can arm people to shoot down passenger planes in Russia.
Likewise, with free and open western borders, it would be pretty easy to arm people to start shooting down passenger planes in EU and the US and make them come into a grinding halt. All western leaders are psychopathic and narcistic and do not understand anything else than events occurring in their backyards. The best demonstration would be some passenger planes around Brussels.
After Ursa Major, all critical mineral and resource ships going into western countries would also be open up for equivalent attacks.
That is the main criticism toward Russia, they haven’t produced a presentation that has scared the western psychopaths, hence the terrorist escalation against Russia with seemingly no end in sight.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 15:57 utc | 231

@ Culero | Dec 26 2024 15:47 utc | 230
Oh, I can beat that. The USA shut down all civil aviation after some guys with boxcutters hijacked a fee planes — guys, moreover, whose activities had already raised alarms in part of the “intelligence community”, which forwarded its concerns to Washington.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 26 2024 16:02 utc | 232

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 26 2024 12:51 utc | 204
########
No true Jew supports Zionism. Just as no true Muslim supports Nazism.
There will always be people who claim to be of a religious group due to their culture, not how they really practice their lives.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 16:02 utc | 233

Weeb Union’s latest video shows that the Russians are bypassing Pakrovsk and going straight for the Metinvest Coke plant west of the city. I hadn’t realized that it was so far west.
This is a smart move, IMO. There don’t appear to be any fortifications between the RF current positions to the SW of the city and that modernized plant. It could probably be taken intact and then Pokrovsk would be outflanked.
Of course, Blackrock would shit their pants!

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 26 2024 16:03 utc | 234

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 15:03 utc | 222
#########
Source?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 16:04 utc | 235

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 26 2024 16:03 utc | 234
RUAF controls everything south and far to SW/WSW of Pokrovsk. After that all Zelensky’s Hail Mary investments on Festung-Pokrovsk turn moot. RUAF can simply continue moving west, while blocking and bombing Pokrovsk without costly head-on assaults.
Eventually the chance of AFU choosing to leave or not defend Pokrovsk will go up as RUAF consolidates areas to the west of it and leaves the city into a more irrelevant position.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 16:06 utc | 236

Unimperator – Let’s assume what you say is correct.
Basically you agree that Putin and Russia are failing.
On the other hand, if what you say turns out to be incorrect or even partially correct, Putin and Russia are failing.

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 16:08 utc | 237

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 26 2024 14:37 utc | 218
########
Trump was quite proud that he supplied Javelins to Ukraine back in 2018 but I do not know if they can be used on aircraft.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 16:09 utc | 238

About China’s influence over Russia economically, why doesn’t anyone mention China’s influence over America? It was mentioned earlier this year that the US Navy couldn’t source critical parts and components outside of China.
And, if you’re really following Russia, you know that Putin has been obsessed with total sovereignty, developing all of the industries domestically it may want to import from abroad.
China is the superpower. All of the media is Western centric but it’s China who everyone wants to befriend across every continent. It’s China that European delegations go to visit on bent knees.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 16:17 utc | 239

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 16:17 utc | 239
There was a nice infographic a few months ago on all major US missile manufacturing companies relying on Chinese to produce components for US missiles and guided rockets. Almost every missile and rocket produced by the US, and every category from propulsion, guidance, fuses etc. rely 50 % or more on Chinese components.
China can easily bring the majority of US MIC to its knees if it wants to.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 16:20 utc | 240

I can beat this:
“Oh, I can beat that. The USA shut down all civil aviation after some guys with boxcutters hijacked a fee planes — guys, moreover, whose activities had already raised alarms in part of the “intelligence community”, which forwarded its concerns to Washington.”
Idiots under Covid, shut everything down!
This is how far we have come!

Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 26 2024 16:25 utc | 241

Putin and Russia are failing.
Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 16:08 utc | 237
Unless of course it isn’t failing. If so then every other conclusion you reach is false because they are all based on a false premise.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 26 2024 16:25 utc | 242

Posted by: Milites | Dec 26 2024 15:21 utc | 225

There is a logical fallacy I believe, contained in the above.

There is resolution to the apparent fallacy.
I consider Trump a very talented person at all levels, as an entrepreneur, entertainer and politician. He also has what it takes to be a man, judging from his reaction to the bullet that passed thru a tip of his ear. That was impressive. I was also very happy when he won his first term though all people surrounding me (except the crown of the family, my grandma) were appalled by my judgement. I’m also happy about his second term because I very much like America, what that nation stood for before the take over by neolibs and neocons, and Trump has the potential to be a turning point leader.
BUT, driving a wedge between Russia and China at these times is a herculean task, that only a great stateman may accomplish though at great cost. Trump is not a Bismarck, he is not the kind of stateman that would pull off such a feat.
So the resolution to the apparent contradiction is that while Trump is a very talented, energetic, disciplined, and intelligent man and what America needs right now, he is not as talented, energetic, disciplined, and intelligent as needed to succesfully drive a wedge between Russia and China at this time.
What Trump can help achieve though, laid the foundations for, IMO, in the subsequent Vance admin, is to build better relations among America, Russia and China, as the only three great powers on this planet. These three can carve up the world into areas of influence and inter-connected trade and prosper all together. The rest of the world will have to follow whatever they decide for the whole century.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 16:33 utc | 243

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 16:04 utc | 235

Source?

Check out what “culo” means in Spanish and you will know from where the faggot (‘culero’) pulled off that info.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 16:37 utc | 244

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 16:08 utc | 237
It doesn’t mean Russia is failing.
You have to look it in the sense that the West is significantly closer to maxing out its escalation potential in hybrid and subvert warfare. That means, should Russia start REAL equivalent hybrid war in EU or US, like shooting down passenger liners, blowing up power plants, arming Islamists in core European countries to create independent Caliphates (like France & BENELUX), arming cartels in Mexico to harass US border states and fight US border services and authorities, kill US officials and authorities… the West could not do much in response beyond what they are already doing now.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 16:37 utc | 245

@245
Also forgot… Cargo ships and tankers are fair game nowadays after Ursa Major.
Most likely the FSB and RUAF have investigated most terror attacks in Russia and have a list of British crimes against Russia, and they have the potential to start publicly releasing British crimes and start retribution on one-by-one basis against British shipping and assets.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 16:40 utc | 246

@ unimperator | Dec 26 2024 16:40 utc | 246
You’re mentioned multiple times today how Russia _could_ act, but so far the extensive evidence is that Russia will not act this way. So far, it’s been clear this is not their style to stoop down to the level of their adversaries.
There are arguments why they should, there are arguments why they shouldn’t, but the most important thing right now is – evidence dictates they will not.

Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 16:47 utc | 247

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 16:37 utc | 244
Here is Brujeria serenading Sr. Culero. Brujeria – Culeros + Misas Negras (Live, July 2023)
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 16:37 utc | 245
Whenever I try to explain my support for Russia in the Ukraine situation to those who only know the situation from MSM here in the USA, I always use the analogy of how would the USA respond if a foreign actor fomented a coup in Mexico or Canada, and then the new anti-USA coup government began militarily attacking the USA. They usually look at me with increased scorn. A few are able to entertain the thought before the Overton window slams down. I doubt we would react with the restraint that the RF has shown so far. I’m surprised the hybrid war unimperator describes hasn’t happened sooner.

Posted by: lex talionis | Dec 26 2024 16:56 utc | 248

Russia shot down an F16.
RT

Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 26 2024 17:06 utc | 249

@ g wiltek | Dec 26 2024 17:06 utc | 250
“There the F-16s are!”, exclaimed the AD operator. Probably.

Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 17:13 utc | 250

“Putin’s desperate search to continue to supply Western arms factories with gas, oil and various metals, factories that supply the Ucronazis with ammunition, missiles, drones that kill Russian civilians and soldiers, and that prolong the war has something perverse and incomprehensible to me.
Posted by: Cagliostro | Dec 25 2024 16:42 utc | 19”
Yeah, a case could be made that Moscow is conducting a depop in plain view. Evidence? They announced a new cancer cure jab this week “inspired” and or containing mRNA technology. That ukie controller travels far and wide to solicit arms and cash. Moscow could have ghosted him many times. Evidence? Prigozin was picked off on his way to Saint Petersburg…The Lt. Gen. was ghosted in front of his city residence last week. Now, Lavrov spends hours today doing media damage control as a diversion. Bla, bla, blaaaa go the Kremlin leaders and the only logical reason why they bullshit and hold back is because depop is a real thing. For two years, I was optimistic Moscow was simply drawing out every last zio nazi to ghost them on THEIR terms. Now, tens of thousands of Russian men are gone. Needlessly. Hundreds of thousands of ukies are gone. Needlessly. Yeah, I did the whole downrange deployment. This 11B knows what wars look, sound, and smell like. The assertion by Mr. Putin that “these are our brothers in ukraine…bla, bla, blaaa just doesn’t hold water any longer.

Posted by: Ering46z | Dec 26 2024 17:19 utc | 251

I think Russia should hit missile manufacturing plants in UK. hit US missile storage facilities in Europe
Posted by: Sam | Dec 25 2024 15:35 utc | 11

Are you a troll, or just an idiot?
If you had more than 12 working neurons, you would recognize that Russia is already at war with US/UK/NATO. We are already 3 years into WW III, which is as different from WW II as the second war was from the first. Unlike in the past, both warring sides have nuclear weapons and neither side wants to use them. So the war progresses in a different way.
Because, well, even you can probably figure that out.

Posted by: Clever Dog | Dec 26 2024 17:21 utc | 252

Unlike in the past, both warring sides have nuclear weapons and neither side wants to use them. So the war progresses in a different way.
Posted by: Clever Dog | Dec 26 2024 17:21 utc | 253

Not to take away from your comment, however there is continuous and increasing blabbering from US think tanks, Pentagon and White House about winning a ‘limited nuke war’ against Russia. So it seems to me the willingness of Nato to not want to use nukes is not that obvious.
This would also explain the rationality behind the seemingly unlimited restraint when it comes to attacking Russia. And I think a lot of people in Washington or London would also like to give Ukraine nukes to use against Russia.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 17:33 utc | 253

I know you are supposed to let sleeping dogs be, even clever ones.
But I happen to agree, that Russia should bomb some Western factories.
If for nothing else, then to show that France and The UK, even the USA is not off limits.
As things stand, the West just piles it on, fearing nothing. As long as they can get Ukrainians to sacrifice their lives, fine!!
You don’t have to be clever to see where this can end.
And to give the West credit for thinking and sense, is obviously a waste of time.
Now it seems as if Russian ships and airplanes are not safe anywhere.
Where do you think the line should be drawn?

Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 26 2024 17:33 utc | 254

Atheists may also find meaning in their lives through family, friends, and good deeds. Nihilists, on the other hand, believe that life is ultimately pointless. They may find temporary happiness in things, but eventually, they will see that they are meaningless.
Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 1:42 utc | 122
But being correct, even when it’s pointless, makes it all worthwhile. 🙂

Posted by: Liolia Paluzas | Dec 26 2024 17:43 utc | 255

RE: Russia shot down an F16.
RT
Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 26 2024 17:06 utc | 250
Confirmation they are inside Ukraine, loaded with missiles & flying.
“One of the F-16 jets donated to Ukraine by NATO has reportedly been downed while attempting to launch missiles at Russia’s Zaporozhye Region.”
Still, changes nothing.
TASS JULY 2024 Article;
https://tass.com/world/1816959
“F-16 jets can hardly influence frontline situation in Ukraine”
“Aviation expert Cyrille de Lattre believes F-16 can be delivered in parts by trucks to Ukraine, as otherwise they will be immediately downed by Russia”
“They will change nothing. Young Ukrainian pilots without experience will pilot them and the talk now is about six aircraft,” he said.
The situation may change if Ukraine receives a big number of F16s with professional foreign pilots.
De Lattre recalled that the United States gave a greenlight to private military companies to operate in Ukraine. “They can help Ukraine engage Patriot (air defense systems) to protect F-16 bases, as well as service the aircraft and provide pilots, why not?” he said.“
Honestly looks like they are getting very small supplies of ground equipment, troop diminishing means more reliance on some sort of increased air assaults (having no air dominance)… just showing collapse.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 26 2024 17:43 utc | 256

there is continuous and increasing blabbering from US think tanks, Pentagon and White House about winning a ‘limited nuke war’ against Russia.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 17:33 utc | 254
––––––––––––
Wasn’t that “Thinking the Unthinkable” report years back about this as well?

Posted by: burak | Dec 26 2024 17:44 utc | 257

I always enjoy a dichotomy, and I am confronted with one here.
On the one hand, I am super annoyed when the trolls show up to yip. On the other hand, I kind of enjoy it, for it means that they are afraid.

Posted by: Hunsdon | Dec 26 2024 17:45 utc | 258

@255
I have much sympathy with the view that Russia is playing by more civilized rules than the USA and its controllers and vassals, and that the final destination of continued escalation is global thermonuclear war, which wouldn’t be very pleasant for the vast majority of people in nuclear-armed countries.
However if one takes the view that TPTB in the “West” also know that GTW results in MAD, you have to ask yourself what would be lost by bringing it on home to the military and political decision-making centres of the US/UK/EU/AU/NZ/CA using non-nuclear means.
It seems there’s a general agreement on MoA (at least among the non-trolls) that escalation beyond the borders of Ukraine is undesirable, but I would appreciate it if some of the regular Barflies would enlighten me on what they consider the downsides to be.

Posted by: Barton Bendish | Dec 26 2024 18:00 utc | 259

Posted by: Hunsdon | Dec 26 2024 17:45 utc | 259
###########
That is why the assassinations don’t bother me.
Assassination is like poisoning—a weapon of the weak.
If America was really what the trolls believe, they would mobilize millions of Americans and flood Europe as they deploy space-based weapons to shut down all electricity in Tehran and Moscow.
Meanwhile, they can’t even protect their Presidential candidates from being shot in public.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 18:04 utc | 260

Unimperator
Putin and Russia have failed and at this stage that failure even encompasses a hypothetical situation where they have a win or whatever they want to call the end of the SMO. Denazification or demobilization? Land gains?
Good luck endlessly guarding your rump

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 18:15 utc | 261

The situation may change if Ukraine receives a big number of F16s with professional foreign pilots.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 26 2024 17:43 utc | 257
If you recall Ukraine started this war with a fleet of Mig-29’s and SU-27’s which were all lost by April 2022 … except the Ghost of Kiev” of course who is still out there somewhere.
They were then given every mig-29 the USA could scrounge up from all over the world and they were lost.
These aircraft are a similar vintage to a Mig-29 / SU-27 and have a similar radar signature. The Russians have missiles that can shoot down aircraft at distances of up to 400 km … what does the F-16 have that can outrange that?
At best an F-16 can launch storm shadow cruise missiles from standoff ranges but this missile only has a range of 550 km and the Russians have been taking them down with EW and missiles.
All they would achieve is giving Russian pilots and AD operators some practice against US aircraft.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Dec 26 2024 18:17 utc | 262

Posted by: Ering46z | Dec 26 2024 17:19 utc | 252
———————
…bla-bla-bla bla-bla & bla.

Posted by: scc | Dec 26 2024 18:19 utc | 263

Now Russia has shut down all 4 Moscow airports and fifth 100 miles away.
Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 15:47 utc | 230
https://www.flightradar24.com/SDM6703/387d3fa5
And now about “culero”:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/culero
I agree 200%.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 18:20 utc | 264

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 18:04 utc | 261
Thank you, LD.
One of the things that continually amazes me about the West’s plans for Russia is how much they seem grounded in a farcical misunderstanding of Russian culture. “We will hit Russia, and Russia will surrender. Russia will feel pain, and Russia will give up. The Russians will be afraid, and we will win.”
When I lived in the FSU (Kazakhstan, for three years) and on my visits to Russia . . . well that was not my impression.
I don’t think most Westerners understand just how very, very bad the 1990s were for Russia and the other FSU states. Even when I try to explain, very few people seem to understand. My ex-mother-in-law, for three years, was paid in supplies from the construction warehouse she worked at. “Here’s light bulbs you can barter, or maybe some mild steel tubing. Good luck.”
Travelling back to Russia in 2006, and 2008, was radically improved. Moscow was . . . rebuilt, cleaner, people stood taller, pride was back, there was much less what I might refer to as the cheap, tawdry side of capitalism on display.
VVP worked dang near close to miracles for Russia.
When the trolls yip “Putin is weak, Putin is a coward, Putin must be overthrown” I just snicker cynically.
And don’t even get me started on the Great Patriotic War.
Russia—the russkii mir, the Russian narod—understand suffering in a way that the West does not. (I’m sure that this is a shocking revelation, right?)
All the West can do now is narrative control, and they’re losing that.

Posted by: Hunsdon | Dec 26 2024 18:24 utc | 265

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 18:15 utc | 262
So… we have the choice between an asshole, a coward, a homosexual, a drug mule, a sluggard or a diaper. That last very necessary considering his enuresis.
In fact not necessary to choose. When all fit.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 18:26 utc | 266

@ Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 16:33 utc | 243
Hey Sancho, they tried multipolarism in the 1900s, and it didn’t exactly work out.
Trump and Vance are empty suits, who ultimately represent the interests of the fraction of the US ruling class (fossil fuel capital, high finance, car dealerships, small biz tyrants, and increasingly digital technology capital) that hold the purse strings of the GOP (I would be remiss to forget the clerical fascists who use their congregations’ tithes on political campaigns for rapists, pedophiles, and the people who cover for them – the Epstein, Johnson and Gaetz wing of the party).
They are putting the US on a path to imperialist war. Maybe Trump will be too pussy to really do it (I don’t think he personally likes the image of flag draped coffins coming in in the tens of thousands from the South China Sea), but he’s probably also seen the CIA’s secret footage of the Kennedy assassination, and will do what he is told to do.

Posted by: fnord | Dec 26 2024 18:26 utc | 267

Follow up on my previous comment, I neglected to mention the Ukrainian attack drone activity on Dec 25 which would indicate either that:
A) Russian Air defense mistakenly shot down the Azeri passenger plane
or
B) Ukraine cleverly timed the drone attacks with locally placed operators with MANPADS to make it appear Russia shot down the plane.
Both seem plausible.
I would only say that based on the Western Media reaction so far, there is a distinct lack of the typical chorus of a coordinated narrative of Russia bashing and immediate blaming that usually accompanies these type of false flag operations, leading me to lean towards the unfortunate likelihood of scenario A.
Onto the Ursa Major sinking..
There are murmurs of sabotage and terrorism among the usual simpers. Typically, they are heavy on speculation and innuendo, and devoid of evidence. The Ship’s owner has spoken out with such accusations too, though it is not clear how a Russian ship that sailed from a Russian port could realistically be easily sabotaged, particularly one that has strategic importance and is regularly contracted to the Russian MOD. Surely it would be a very well guarded ship in St Petersburg, where it was last docked. Any talk of torpedoes or drones out at sea seems far fetched given the level of escalation and likely invitation to retaliation, but anything is possible of course.
Someone who is attempting to provide an argument based on what appears to be evidence is this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N_eHRNpAPo&ab_channel=WhatisGoingonWithShipping%3F
Looking past the big caveat of him being a US citizen not hiding his Schadenfreude in reporting on another lost Russian ship, there is validity in his suggestion the sinking could be due to the ship not implementing any past maintenance recommendations and not visiting any certified ports in many years, thus falling victim to sub optimal workmanship, if any was conducted at all.
The fact 2 river tankers were sent out to sea and subsequently sunk supports the thesis that Russian ship operators are stretched, cutting corners or using vessels beyond their design limitations.
It would be great if any people accusing anyone of terrorism or sabotage could at least try to back their claims with some proof and logic, just as this guy did. BTW, he did not rule sabotage out either.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:26 utc | 268

@ Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:26 utc | 269
“Where is proof and logic?” asks the guy who ignores provided proof to promote his own “logic”.

Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 18:30 utc | 269

@
Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 18:30 utc | 270
Sorry, what proof are you referring to exactly?
I am referring to the sinking of a ship. Please watch the video before commenting next time, so you can at least understand what this guy tries to provide as proof to back his argument, such as the ship’s records, tracking data, circumstance of other Russian ships sinking etc.
We know a ship sunk. Please refer us to whatever proof you have as to how this occurred.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:37 utc | 270

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:26 utc | 269
The plane was not “shot down” as it could fly to Aktau which is several hundred km away. It crashed while attempting to land. In case of emergency and before landing, the pilots must get rid of most of the fuel load. Was it done? Why did the landing fail?

Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 18:38 utc | 271

A yankee Boeing P-8A Poseidon is currently circling over Romania close to the Ukrainian border and the Black Sea coast.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 18:43 utc | 272

Busy in here today, must be all the bargain-basement trolls out for the Boxing Day sales. Wonder if there is a basket of remaindered editions?
Still, in all of the ~270 posts, nobody has wondered why Yuzhmash is still locked down…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 26 2024 18:45 utc | 273

It seems there’s a general agreement on MoA (at least among the non-trolls) that escalation beyond the borders of Ukraine is undesirable, but I would appreciate it if some of the regular Barflies would enlighten me on what they consider the downsides to be.
Posted by: Barton Bendish | Dec 26 2024 18:00 utc | 260
#################
Let’s start with first principles.
What is Russia seeking to accomplish with the SMO and 10 years after the SMO?
Would attacking somewhere outside of Ukraine be helpful to those goals?
I advise everyone who likes to follow geopolitics through the alt-perspective (which we at MoA are) to follow Karlof1’s Substack where he covers the thinking inside of Russia and China, particularly social policy, which tells us a lot about what these countries are seeking to achieve.
We already know the agenda in the West. For the politicians, it is serving donors and patrons, and accruing generational wealth to themselves. It is certainly not patriotism or care for the citizens whose safety and prosperity, are duties that they have asked to protect by seeking office in the first place.
In Russia, they are constantly rooting out corruption. China as well. The Chinese give the death penalty to those who steal from the people. Can you imagine the death penalty for a Big Pharma or MIC exec in America?
In America, no one runs for office to end corruption when everyone knows the entire enterprise is corrupt from top to bottom.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 18:46 utc | 274

@ Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 18:38 utc | 272
No one said it was shot down. Semantics aside, shot down can mean many things. It appears an AA missile exploded beside it and not with a direct hit, as they often can do.
The plane appears to have incurred damage due to shrapnel hitting it fuselage, as evidenced by the inward bend of the many holes, and the circles of paint missing around them. It looks like the tail section was struck, possibly damaging any combination of rudder, flaps or the hydraulics operating them.
This could have rendered the plane still able to fly in the air, but with limited controls, something evidenced by the fact it could fly to another destination, but which resulted in a compromised landing, that being the most delicate maneuver that would have required 100% control of the plane. It is also possible that any damage previously assessed as minor could have deteriorated as it crossed the Caspian Sea.
As for the fuel, AFAIK the plane attempted a number of landings that were aborted. I don’t know of any living pilot who could calculate to the last liter such that a plane could land with no fuel.
The dumping of fuel is simply a damage limitation strategy. That thing lands the way it did, it was always gonna produce a fireball. Had it not dumped fuel, it would have been a much bigger one, and we’d likely have zero survivors.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:58 utc | 275

It seems there’s a general agreement on MoA (at least among the non-trolls) that escalation beyond the borders of Ukraine is undesirable, but I would appreciate it if some of the regular Barflies would enlighten me on what they consider the downsides to be.
Posted by: Barton Bendish | Dec 26 2024 18:00 utc | 260
——————————————————————-
Good answer Donbass @ 275. Let me have a shot at it.
1. WW3 with a nuclear component.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 18:58 utc | 276

There are more murmurs of the F-16 shot down over Zaporozhye. Apparently the plane was shot down as it was at launch position during or after launching its missile(s).
I doubt this is the first destroyed F-16, as months ago there were reports of F-16 shipped to Ukrainian air bases in parts to be assembled, supposedly the F-16 parts were struck inside protected hangars. But we don’t know how many have been destroyed.
https://x.com/East_Calling/status/1872347374569291882

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 19:00 utc | 277

@ Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:37 utc | 271
The crew interview of the sinking ship reported explosions. But that doesn’t fall into the narrative those like you peddle here, does it. So you discard it, preemptively insult those with a legitimate conflicting argument, while generalizing and stretching hand picked data over an entire strategic fleet.
There is no value in retracing “Russian shadow fleet is doomed due to poor maintenance” claims back from two years ago resurfacing due to a headline opportunity. “We predicted their imminent downfall, and it barely took years for a ship to sink!”
None of this would be an issue had you not come in with a patronizing lecture peddling old narrative propaganda. It might even somehow be true, but you certainty have no clue. Proof he asks for now, how cute.

Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 19:02 utc | 278

Posted by: Barton Bendish | Dec 26 2024 18:00 utc | 260
In some ways it can be argued that Russia is already striking beyond the borders of Ukraine, just not in direct military terms.
The length of the SMO has exposed economic stresses and strains in the West, in turn leading to the façade of “democracy” becoming increasingly tattered and frayed which, in its own turn is leading to an increasingly discontented and disgruntled population.
And then we have the growing influence of BRICS, not without its fits and starts, but prior to the SMO was more nebulous and less-clearly defined in its structure and objectives.
In short, the biggest blow Russia has struck beyond the borders of Ukraine is to force those who regarded themselves as all-powerful into having to reveal the limits of their power.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 26 2024 19:13 utc | 279

No one said it was shot down.
Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:58 utc | 276

A) Russian Air defense mistakenly shot down the Azeri passenger plane
Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:26 utc | 269

Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 19:15 utc | 280

@Barton Bendish | Dec 26 2024 18:00 utc, who asked (my paraphrase) “why is Russian escalation outside Ukraine borders undesirable from Russia’s perspective”?
I can think of these reasons:
a. It gives NATO member-states’ “leaders” – who are not very popular with their public – a way to paint Russia as an aggressor that must be actively resisted, using public money and bodies
b. It widens the theater of Russian military operations, and the longer one’s supply lines are, the tougher it is to wage war. Right now, all the action is right where Russia wants it, where Russia has the greatest battlefield advantages. Relatedly, it spreads Russia’s munitions mfg’g and delivery capacity over a wider target area, so dominance in any one sub-area is harder to achieve
c. It will spur the NATO states to step up military munitions production (much more) rapidly
d. It takes NATO’s public’s mind off of the hardships they’re enduring (because of their leaders’ bad decision to support Ukraine at the expense of their own national economy and standard of living. Russia wants the public of each participating NATO nation to concentrate on the privations they’re suffering, and to blame their own local politicians for it
e. And, of course, as Ed states above, that gets the world one big step closer to Nuke Exchange (in order to Save Humanity, of course)

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Dec 26 2024 19:16 utc | 281

Democracyatwork.info
Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 15:47 utc | 230
There are many ways Nato can arm people to shoot down passenger planes in Russia.
Likewise, with free and open western borders, it would be pretty easy to arm people to start shooting down passenger planes in EU and the US and make them come into a grinding halt.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 15:57 utc | 231
The situation as I understand it is that by reputation the United States is still the big dog in the fight, and also given to extracting revenge. As a result nobody really wants to take the US on. The Russian solution to this is to only respond in an aggressive way when they have proof that the United States, by proxy or otherwise, commits an aggressive action. When that happens the Russians take it as giving themselves the right to respond in kind. If they follow that behavior in the future, and ships and airplanes are indeed being taken out by acts of terrorism, then the Russians will respond when it becomes apparent that terrorism is the problem.
Some suppose this behavior is proof of Russian weakness. What that opinion overlooks is that aggressive behavior can be compensation for weakness, as it is now with certainty with Ukraine.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 26 2024 19:17 utc | 282

In short, the biggest blow Russia has struck beyond the borders of Ukraine is to force those who regarded themselves as all-powerful into having to reveal the limits of their power.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 26 2024 19:13 utc | 280

And the limits of their economies. It is particularly true in France and Germany. Bankruptcies are increasing and both countries are facing a political crisis.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 19:22 utc | 283

@
Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 19:02 utc | 279
“The crew interview of the sinking ship reported explosions.”
1- AFAIK, an engine blowing up is also an explosion. Where were these crew at the time of the explosions?
2- Crew working for a ship owner that states the ship sunk due to ‘terrorism’ instead of his shoddy maintenance or cost cutting might be well motivated to support that narrative.
I think it’s perfectly possible there was an attack of sorts on the ship, but so far i have seen no evidence to support that theory. If you think it’s unreasonable of one to expect the same burden of proof on both sides of an argument, then perhaps it is not proof or truth that you are looking for.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 19:23 utc | 284

@281
The aircraft in question approached touchdown with nose pitched too far down, and starboard wings seemed to be rolled rolled down well beyond level. The aircraft was clearly outside “controlled flight “.
Root cause must be determined by investigation

Posted by: Paddy | Dec 26 2024 19:23 utc | 285

Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 18:58 utc | 277

It seems there’s a general agreement on MoA (at least among the non-trolls) that escalation beyond the borders of Ukraine is undesirable, but I would appreciate it if some of the regular Barflies would enlighten me on what they consider the downsides to be.
Posted by: Barton Bendish | Dec 26 2024 18:00 utc | 260
——————————————————————-
Good answer Donbass @ 275. Let me have a shot at it.
1. WW3 with a nuclear component.

Of course, the implication here is that Western deterrence is still intact even as we witness its gradual erosion on the Russian side. This development is a strategic loss for Russia.

Posted by: robin | Dec 26 2024 19:27 utc | 286

@ Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 19:23 utc | 285
Point being, you didn’t provide any “evidence” (simply more arguments) while discarding reports of the conflicting argument, implying they are not actually proof.

@269
Someone who is attempting to provide an argument based on what appears to be evidence

Now you backpedal (not the first time you do that) saying “it’s perfectly possible”, after insulting those claiming as much.

@269
There are murmurs of sabotage and terrorism among the usual simpers

Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 19:31 utc | 287

@ Posted by: Naive | Dec 26 2024 19:15 utc | 281
LOL. I meant in the sense in which you interpreted ‘shot down’, as a reasonable person could have deduced by the rest of my comment, but thank you for pointing out my error.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 19:32 utc | 288

Another insult, this time implied, another backpedal.

Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 19:34 utc | 289

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 16:08 utc | 237
This is actually a pretty funny handle. Culero is a Mexican slang for fag, or literally someone who deals in “culos” or asses.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 26 2024 19:39 utc | 290

There are more murmurs of the F-16 shot down over Zaporozhye. Apparently the plane was shot down as it was at launch position during or after launching its missile(s).
I doubt this is the first destroyed F-16, as months ago there were reports of F-16 shipped to Ukrainian air bases in parts to be assembled, supposedly the F-16 parts were struck inside protected hangars. But we don’t know how many have been destroyed.
https://x.com/East_Calling/status/1872347374569291882
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 19:00 utc | 278
Some weeks/months ago, an f16 pilot (who was even the guy in charge of the trained units if I recall correctly) was killed and f16(s) lost.
As for “shot down as it was at launch position” is probably the only vulnerable moment at least while they use them only for standoff weapons launch, probably come in low, rise to launch and drop and turn back on low. Short window for a kill, probably menas S300-S400 close to the frontline.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 26 2024 19:39 utc | 291

Lot of earnestly breathless speculation and counter-speculation about the aircraft crash and the ship sinking, all based on sometimes conflicting “information” leaks.
Compare and contrast with the complete clampdown on information following the Oreshnik strike on the Yuzhmash site.
Just sayin’…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 26 2024 19:44 utc | 292

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:26 utc | 269
Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 18:37 utc | 271
—————————————————————-
Rubi baby, I read your comments, and clearly, you are pushing a Western narrative. But that is not the narrative the Bar here at MoA generally supports. You have every right to support any narrative you want, but many of us have long ago lost all faith in the Western CIA-controlled MSM, and that is the history you are up against here.
Remember MH17 in 2014. You were probably convinced by the MSM and the Obama administration that somehow Russia was responsible. Many of us had a different perspective, based on a more universal source of information that often did not accept the Obama/CIA narrative then or now.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 19:46 utc | 293

There is no favorable endgame for Putin and Russia with respect to the SMO. Russia is not weak per se, however the immediate as well as longer term consequences are guaranteed to be lackluster at best and tragic at worst.
Most significantly, the daily insults to Putin’s reputation are magnified by Russia’s growing inability to the control events within their own borders.

Posted by: Culero | Dec 26 2024 19:56 utc | 294

It is obvious Ursa Major, the Russian ship that sank in the Kerch strait, the ‘cable attacks’ in the Baltic sea, of which has been several events in November and December are all connected. This is a joint western hybrid war against Russian shipping, to put simply. There is very little chance of it being anything else.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 20:10 utc | 295

@260
In war the moral is to the material as three is to one.
NATO proxy attacks on Russia and sea assets are terrorism seeking headlines and looking for terror in response.
Russia has not stooped to respond in immoral kind.
Other than acting like the evil….
Russia has no career in occupying any aggressor state, its attacks would support no objects.
Russia staying on the moral high ground defending itself fromNATO

Posted by: paddy | Dec 26 2024 20:11 utc | 296

At this time, there is no favorable outcome for NATO, Ukraine, or Europe.
NATO has been demilitarized, its special forces have been found wanting, its tactics ineffective, its materiel scarce, and generations behind.
Now, Europe will try to rebuild by paying a premium to the US to replace the affordable and reliable Russian energy it previously could access.
It’s like that pro-America guy who didn’t know who the Houthis were, and when it was brought up, he didn’t even have the intelligence to Google it.
To paraphrase Trump, “They are not sending their best” LOL

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 20:13 utc | 297

Now the Western press is going wild over the possible “shooting down” of an Azerbaijani passenger plane by a “Russian missile”. What they are deliberately failing to mention is that a Ukrainian drone attack took place at the same time as the passenger plane approached Grozny. This, of course, triggered the air defenses. If the plane was actually downed by an air defense missile, it would most likely have been caused by debris; if it had been a direct hit, there would have been no survivors. In this case, it looks more as if the Ukraine has cleverly directed the Russian air defense towards the passenger plane. The anti-aircraft gunners would have been faced with the difficult decision of doing nothing and risking fatalities on the ground or an attack by the drone on the plane, or trying to fend off the drones. But the press practitioners (they must be, given the low level of articles) deliberately fail to mention this.

Posted by: xblob | Dec 26 2024 20:14 utc | 298

It’s like that pro-America guy who didn’t know who the Houthis were, and when it was brought up, he didn’t even have the intelligence to Google it.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 20:13 utc | 298
________
Oh, I think he knew, but was just yanking your chain. I got a definite whiff of sock odor from that one too.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 26 2024 20:16 utc | 299

In 2014 Putin said:
A coup has taken place in Ukraine.
This makes the coup government illegitimate.
Therefore their claim to Crimea is illegitimate.
Thus Russia hold a referendum to establish a legitimate government.
And then have a legal basis for keeping their bases (in Crimea).
In 2024 Putin said:
A coup took place in Syria,
This makes the coup government of Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) totally legitimate and Russia will negotiate it to keep, or not keep, their bases in Syria.
Putin the totally flexible,….
What a difference ten years makes.

Posted by: username | Dec 26 2024 20:21 utc | 300