News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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December 25, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-309
News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
Comments
Before it happened nobody here thought NATO-supplied and controlled missiles could or would ever fly into pre-war Russia.
And?
There. In “Kyiv”! So NATO can remain overconfident that Russia will restrain itself from escalating onto NATO territory while NATO unflinchingly keeps on poking the bear and killing Russians at its discretion, vindicating all NATO pundits calling Putin’s bluffs, counting on Putin not calling NATO’s bluffs.
Noted.
Awww, thanks for the flowers! Get your historic facts straight first, starting way before Biden taking office. Mearsheimer is a good starting point. Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 26 2024 0:25 utc | 101 My warning to Russia way back in 2014. Posted by: Sam | Dec 26 2024 0:26 utc | 102 There was plenty of warning to Russia about treacherous Lavrov a British agent who singularly revived NATO by sanctioning Libya . Posted by: Sam | Dec 26 2024 0:28 utc | 103 Putin is master of converting almost won war into a quagmire . Posted by: Sam | Dec 26 2024 0:30 utc | 104 Now, if I am correct and judgment is real … Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 0:30 utc | 105 @ Nervous German | Dec 26 2024 0:25 utc | 118 Posted by: boneless | Dec 26 2024 0:30 utc | 106 Posted by: Sam | Dec 26 2024 0:24 utc | 117 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 0:41 utc | 107 Andrei Martynov observes that the Azerbaijan Airliner downing was definitely a terrorist act, as was the sinking of Ursa Major, apparently via submarine?
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2024/12/ursa-major-was-sunk.html Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 26 2024 0:43 utc | 108 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 0:30 utc | 122 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 0:50 utc | 109 ******** Ed@111 Posted by: Jerr | Dec 26 2024 0:51 utc | 110 Posted by: Sam | Dec 26 2024 0:30 utc | 121 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 0:53 utc | 111 Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 25 2024 21:43 utc | 69 Posted by: kupkee | Dec 26 2024 1:02 utc | 112 Posted by: Jerr | Dec 26 2024 0:51 utc | 129 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 1:10 utc | 113 Another MH-17??????? Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 26 2024 1:11 utc | 114 “…until the elections, then the anger of the voters will come to the fore.” Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 1:13 utc | 115 Re: the plane crash Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 1:15 utc | 116 The man who recorded the video survived Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 1:22 utc | 117 Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 26 2024 0:43 utc | 126 Posted by: Milites | Dec 26 2024 1:28 utc | 118 Another Baltic Sea cable mysteriously breaks down Posted by: HERMIUS | Dec 26 2024 1:32 utc | 119 Now that it’s open season on commercial shipping in the global oceans, insurance premia will rise to an extent commensurate with the threat of routinely losing vessels in a hostile marine environment. For that and myriad other reasons both cumulative and emergent, expect inflation to make a savage comeback in late 2025, and everyone’s cost of living to rise accordingly. The inflation will show up in COGS first, and then, like clockwork, it will come home to roost in the expenditures of the ordinary end consumer. But first be prepared for the consequences of the horrific false-flag attack on a major European city in the next 3-4 weeks. Posted by: Matthew | Dec 26 2024 1:34 utc | 120 **Wp007 @132, “It’s energy” Posted by: Jerr008 | Dec 26 2024 1:38 utc | 121 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 0:50 utc | 128 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 1:42 utc | 122 Posted by: wp007 | Dec 26 2024 1:31 utc | 141 Posted by: Milites | Dec 26 2024 1:44 utc | 123 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 0:50 utc | 128
Psst! Have you read the last chapter of the Old Testament? Posted by: Seer | Dec 26 2024 1:59 utc | 124 This is as a response to their own terrorist attacks on Russian assets like the Nordstream and the shadow fleet. THERE WILL BE MORE OF THIS. Expect to see more Mysterious sinkings of oil tankers bound for NATO countries, cables cut and destroyed. Posted by: Jesper from London | Dec 26 2024 2:16 utc | 125 On the topic of Russian responses to NATO weapons being fired from Ukraine into Russia: Posted by: Nobody Special | Dec 26 2024 2:17 utc | 126 This is as a response to their own terrorist attacks on Russian assets like the Nordstream and the shadow fleet. THERE WILL BE MORE OF THIS. Expect to see more Mysterious sinkings of oil tankers bound for NATO countries, cables cut and destroyed. Posted by: Fyador | Dec 26 2024 2:19 utc | 127 @ HERMIUS | Dec 26 2024 1:32 utc | 142 Posted by: The Flying Scotsman | Dec 26 2024 2:23 utc | 128 This is as a response to their own terrorist attacks on Russian assets like the Nordstream and the shadow fleet. THERE WILL BE MORE OF THIS. Expect to see more Mysterious sinkings of oil tankers bound for NATO countries, cables cut and destroyed. Posted by: Ted from Liverpool | Dec 26 2024 2:27 utc | 129 Posted by: wp007 | Dec 26 2024 2:11 utc | 149 Posted by: Seer | Dec 26 2024 2:27 utc | 130
Trump the dealmaker believes that everyone has a price and is afraid of him, crude tactics of a used car salesman. In his first presidency the Republican establishment played him. They strung him along with building his big beautiful wall, and used him while they implemented their own agenda. Putin and Xi will play him for a fool too. Stroke his ego whilst hiding the pea under the cup he never spots. His bullying tactics may have some leverage on smaller countries, but Putin and Xi know his moves. Posted by: Mike R | Dec 26 2024 2:37 utc | 132 Russian estimates say that about 25% are fascists. Posted by: burak | Dec 26 2024 2:53 utc | 133 (1) I see no power center or ideology that can amply claim not to hold death cards. And, well, everyone is proclaiming to know THE “truth,” and we know the effects of human hubris. Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 3:04 utc | 134 The world is dividing up into two political camps. That makes it a lot tougher for Trump to get a good outcome playing the bully boy because a lot of countries have a viable alternative. If it isn’t done carefully we are more apt to drive other countries away than to get a greater degree of compliance. Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 26 2024 3:06 utc | 135 I don’t like your choice of words, it’s fascist language. It doesn’t make you any better or different. Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 3:09 utc | 136 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 1:42 utc | 145 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 3:11 utc | 137 Posted by: Nobody Special | Dec 26 2024 2:17 utc | 151 By the way, wp007, people aren’t born fascists; they are trained to think that away. Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 3:14 utc | 139 rk@54…..so if a person uses logic and common sense to predict a future trend they are a troll. Anyone with zero knowledge of how the Imperial British Empire works is a…… Enough with the name calling, I didn’t predict anything, Russia is dealing with the Brits, they haven’t a clue what their partners, their friends have in store. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 26 2024 3:15 utc | 140 Ukraine and Moldova may have been given the go ahead to make a move on Transnistria. Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 3:04 utc | 161 Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 26 2024 3:18 utc | 142 Our Christmas in the West isn’t Russia’s as most know. It’s just another day in most of the world. “Lavrov’s Western Christmas Interview by Russia’s 60 Minutes News Show,” https://karlof1.substack.com/p/lavrovs-western-christmas-interview @ Jianso | Dec 25 2024 21:01 utc | 61 Posted by: Featherless | Dec 26 2024 3:24 utc | 144 Posted by: Seer | Dec 26 2024 1:59 utc | 147 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 3:28 utc | 145 From Zakharova’s briefing today:
Yet another example of Liberal Totalitarianism. Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 26 2024 3:06 utc | 162 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 3:37 utc | 147 @burak Posted by: burak | Dec 26 2024 3:41 utc | 148 Posted by: wp007 | Dec 26 2024 3:20 utc | 171 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 3:42 utc | 149 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 3:28 utc | 173 Posted by: Seer | Dec 26 2024 3:44 utc | 150 @karlof1 Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 26 2024 3:45 utc | 151 Southfront has an article about a father killed by ukie recruiters in Odesss who was trying to prevent his son being forcibly taken away. Feel Odessans will be screaming silently with pure rage and intent for revenge built up over decades. They could go berserk at the first sign of liberation. Believe arms have been freely distributed in the beginning. So that won’t be a problem. Feel it will be pure slaughter, magnitude which we have never seen and rivers of blood will flow. Who can stand in front of river of blood surging nato,mercenary, ukie forces? Regarding what Trump admin will or won’t do, Russia, China and Iran basically (and especially jointly) hold all the cards. US/West is in decline, resources are dwindling: that’s what Ukraine was always about- Ukraine was to be the resource injection for the decaying EU (managed by the US/Blackrock, of course). Posted by: Seer | Dec 26 2024 3:47 utc | 153 Posted by: wp007 | Dec 26 2024 3:32 utc | 175 Posted by: Ed | Dec 26 2024 3:58 utc | 154 Yes, and I really want to complain to them about the standard of trolling here Posted by: эльф | Dec 26 2024 4:04 utc | 155 Trump the dealmaker believes that everyone has a price and is afraid of him, crude tactics of a used car salesman. Posted by: just in | Dec 26 2024 4:10 utc | 156 Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 26 2024 3:06 utc | 162 Posted by: Barrel Brown | Dec 26 2024 4:11 utc | 157 Posted by: Barrel Brown | Dec 26 2024 4:11 utc | 189 Posted by: Barrel Brown | Dec 26 2024 4:18 utc | 158
So unchallenged that they still hide behind Ukraines skirts? Nonsense. The US is a rapidly sinking ship rotted out from within by a corrupt and venal elite. The interest payments alone compel these simpletons to drive the world off a cliff. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 26 2024 4:26 utc | 159 Posted by: just in | Dec 26 2024 4:10 utc | 188 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 4:31 utc | 160 Posted by: Seer | Dec 26 2024 3:44 utc | 179 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 4:42 utc | 161 Dear Trump and Mr.Putin Posted by: Mango | Dec 26 2024 5:14 utc | 162 Posted by: just in | Dec 26 2024 4:10 utc | 188 Posted by: just in | Dec 26 2024 5:19 utc | 163 Posted by: Mango | Dec 26 2024 5:14 utc | 195 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 5:39 utc | 164 Unchallenged? Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 5:50 utc | 165 Speaking of religion, anyone here has read John Allegro’s “The Sacred Mushroom & The Cross”? Posted by: Suresh | Dec 26 2024 6:27 utc | 166 That sounds like an interesting media bubble you must be in if you don’t know who the Houthis are. Posted by: just in | Dec 26 2024 7:02 utc | 167
We may soon discover that Vovan and Lexus have been impersonating Putin while “negotiating peace” with Trump. LOL. Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 7:05 utc | 168
forget about the F16s. Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 7:13 utc | 169 ZH has a posting up with the title
Our civilization war is spreading its events Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 26 2024 7:28 utc | 170
Lady Graham from South Carolina is on record salivating about the mineral wealth under Donbass to be “lost” if US doesn’t win in Ukraine. Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 8:22 utc | 171 So, Russia is wrong for trying to take out Banderites and other neo-Nazis in Ukraine? Posted by: username | Dec 26 2024 8:28 utc | 172 Putin does not understand that US politics wont change with Trump. That is why he hopes so much. Posted by: vargas | Dec 26 2024 8:33 utc | 173
No. Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 8:36 utc | 174
It’s a good thing Trump didn’t reveal all his negotiating strategies by pubishing a book about them. /s Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 8:44 utc | 175 Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 25 2024 21:43 utc | 69
It’s just boring and repetitive: Putin should do this, Putin weak, Russia should do that, Russia weak, BRICS must do X, China must do Y, etc, ad nauseum. All of you trolls sing the same fucking song all the fucking time. Boring. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 8:44 utc | 176
Russians have explained MANY times, that who in particular becomes the US President is irrelevant to Russia (and to America), because American Foreign Policy never wavers. Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 8:59 utc | 177 The Ukrainian people are Russia’s primary enemy. Posted by: Martina | Dec 26 2024 9:03 utc | 178 Posted by: Nobody Special | Dec 26 2024 2:17 utc | 151 Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 9:08 utc | 179 Posted by: Martina | Dec 26 2024 9:03 utc | 211 Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 9:16 utc | 180 Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 8:22 utc | 204
Don’t take that too seriously. He was just putting lipstick on a pig. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 9:17 utc | 181
I don’t have to take it seriously. Lindsay Graham takes it seriously, and has brought this topic up several times. The Donbass is worth at least 1 Trillion dollars in mineral wealth. Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 9:28 utc | 182 Aside from mineral wealth directly underneath Greenland, examine a map of claims to the Arctic Ocean floor. The US has one of the smaller Arctic slices (north of Alaska). Posted by: Martina | Dec 26 2024 9:35 utc | 183 So, how many people think it’s a coincidence that a commercial airliner flying over the Caucasus/Caspian Sea was struck by shrapnel just as Russia was conducting its December 25 massive missile attack on Ukraine? Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 9:51 utc | 184 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 26 2024 5:50 utc | 198 Posted by: Milites | Dec 26 2024 9:57 utc | 185 Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 9:17 utc | 214 Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 10:05 utc | 186 Sorry, I was replying to retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 9:28 utc | 215 Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 10:09 utc | 187 @ Rubiconned | Dec 26 2024 9:51 utc | 217 Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 26 2024 10:14 utc | 188 Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 26 2024 9:16 utc | 213 Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 10:23 utc | 189 Destroying Ukro energy system is the best option for Russia. Posted by: vargas | Dec 26 2024 10:59 utc | 190 If I remember right all the contracts for NatGas that gets transported across Ukraine to Europe expire today? No lump of coal from the Donbass, no gas from the pipeline. That outta hurt. Posted by: JohninMK | Dec 26 2024 11:02 utc | 191 Posted by: Milites | Dec 26 2024 9:57 utc | 218
While the former part about China’s extending its influence over the Russian economy is obvious, for the latter part of your thesis, about China’s influence extending any historical disputes between China and Russia, I don’t see any evidence.
It’s impossible not be economically smaller than China due to sheer population size on top of educated, disciplined and intelligent population and effective governance. And being dependent on China for consumer products is not bad per se, as long as geopolitical interests overlap, which is the case for Russia and China, as long as the USA fights for primacy.
Trump is very good for the USA but he doesn’t fit the size of a stateman that can separate Russia and China, he’s just not that talented and disciplined, energetic and intelligent. Nixon had it easy because the Soviets and the CPC hated each other from the start, the Soviets being committed Marxists while the Chinese being more pragmatical, so driving a wedge between the two was picking low hanging fruit. Current situation is totally different. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 26 2024 11:03 utc | 192 RUAF is taking the entire SW area of Pokrovsk. They are making the AFU effort of ‘Festung Pokrovsk’ (castle city) moot. Remember that AFU bet the kitchen sink into preparing the defense of Pokrovsk. They also have an extensive west-east line of fortified areas south of Pokrovsk, but right now the RUAF is just rolling this line from the side. Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 11:16 utc | 193 “Trump is very good for the USA but he doesn’t fit the size of a stateman that can separate Russia and China, he’s just not that talented and disciplined, energetic and intelligent. Nixon had it easy because the Soviets and the CPC hated each other from the start, the Soviets being committed Marxists while the Chinese being more pragmatical, so driving a wedge between the two was picking low hanging fruit. Current situation is totally different.” Merry Christmas to the Moon of Alabama! Have a grog on me, please – “needs rum, water maybe, and sugar is optional” as they say in Hamburg. I couldn’t follow all threads, but here’s a post anyway: my speculation on the Yuzhmash strike, courtesy of a sudden idea from this very moment while reading Englishman in NY | Dec 23 2024 0:18 utc | 101 and tying in a clever question also posted here recently. Posted by: persiflo | Dec 26 2024 11:24 utc | 195 “If I remember right all the contracts for NatGas that gets transported across Ukraine to Europe expire today? No lump of coal from the Donbass, no gas from the pipeline. That outta hurt.” Posted by: Larsbo | Dec 25 2024 13:54 utc | 2 Posted by: Another Thing | Dec 26 2024 11:28 utc | 197 What idiot buying bureaucrat puts an energy deadline in the middle of winter? The deadlines should be done in ‘shoulder seasons’-spring and fall where energy inputs are not as critical. Posted by: JohninMK | Dec 26 2024 11:40 utc | 198 Trouble in Natostan paradise.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 26 2024 11:59 utc | 199 Posted by: just in | Dec 26 2024 7:02 utc | 200 Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 26 2024 12:04 utc | 200 |
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