News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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December 1, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-288
News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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Now why should partisans on the ground be doing this while locomotives have barely been hit by Russian missiles and drones for three years now when they should have been a priority target? Posted by: ANON2022 | Dec 2 2024 20:23 utc | 201 ANON2022 // 203 Posted by: Nobody Special | Dec 2 2024 20:55 utc | 202 Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 2 2024 19:11 utc | 195 Posted by: Milites | Dec 2 2024 21:00 utc | 203 Posted by: Nobody Special | Dec 2 2024 20:55 utc | 204 Posted by: Milites | Dec 2 2024 21:07 utc | 204 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 2 2024 19:52 utc | 201 Posted by: Milites | Dec 2 2024 21:14 utc | 205
Which has resulted in what? Posted by: ANON2022 | Dec 2 2024 21:15 utc | 206 Has it been long enough yet to call those complaining about “intact railroad systems” idiots yet, or will that still be impolite? Posted by: boneless | Dec 2 2024 21:22 utc | 207 I have the feeling that Russia is running out of time and they can’t do the job as planned. Posted by: guest from franconia | Dec 2 2024 21:44 utc | 208 Posted by: ANON2022 | Dec 2 2024 21:15 utc | 209 Posted by: watcher | Dec 2 2024 21:47 utc | 209 Posted by: guest from franconia | Dec 2 2024 21:44 utc | 211 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 2 2024 21:53 utc | 210 Judge Nap: Scott Ritter Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 2 2024 21:55 utc | 211 Destroying Ukrainian trains was not a priority as long as they fed AFU troops to attack Russian Federation massively in-depth fortified lines, where they suffered an appalling level of casualties and equipment losses that were totally disproportionate to what they inflicted on their enemy. Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 2 2024 21:56 utc | 212 Given that 404 relies heavily on rail, and taking into account Milites’ observation that tracking what goes where is great intel, stating the bleeding obvious that rail uses fixed routes, and finally noting that most rail usage delivers ‘means’ directly into one or other of many firebags for disposal, then why on God’s green earth would this conveyance be stopped? Interesting update Posted by: Newbie | Dec 2 2024 22:32 utc | 214
Because by not stopping it Russia lost the war, that is why. Posted by: ANON2022 | Dec 2 2024 22:35 utc | 215 reply to 207 Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 2 2024 22:36 utc | 216 Posted by: Micron | Dec 2 2024 13:26 utc | 140 Posted by: Barrel Brown | Dec 2 2024 22:53 utc | 217 John Marks, 1st Dec 2024, 2327 GMT quondam 90 Posted by: petra | Dec 2 2024 23:08 utc | 218 DS map update: Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 2 2024 23:09 utc | 219 Posted by: snake | Dec 1 2024 16:31 utc | 20 Posted by: donten | Dec 2 2024 23:16 utc | 220 Yes, refraining from attacking an enemy’s logistics when you have the means to is an age-old custom of warfare. Posted by: evilsooty998 | Dec 2 2024 23:55 utc | 221 A recurrent theme in these pages has been that the Ukraine war is a CIA war. Posted by: Acco Hengst | Dec 2 2024 23:55 utc | 222 @ evilsooty998 | Dec 2 2024 23:55 utc | 224 Posted by: boneless | Dec 3 2024 0:07 utc | 223 Posted by: ANON2022 | Dec 2 2024 22:35 utc | 218 Posted by: hopehely | Dec 3 2024 0:16 utc | 224 Dicen que el objetivo de Rusia es desmilitarizar a Ucrania. y Ucrania ya perdio casi 20,000 tanques, en realidd esta desmilitarisando a la OTAN, no entiendo porque algunos se quejan. (les ha de gustar que aplasten a los civiles) Posted by: Manuel V | Dec 3 2024 0:24 utc | 225 Georgia turned down the offer you cant refuse EU association and now is getting maidaned? Posted by: Fred | Dec 3 2024 1:15 utc | 226 Fred | Dec 3 2024 1:15 utc | 229
Alex Christoforo from The Duran mentioned this: After the recent passing of the Foreign Agents act in Georgia (similar to this law in the US), EU said that Georgia can not join EU unless this law is retracted. Subsequently, Georgian PM said that discussion of the EU accession is suspended until 2028. Posted by: BD | Dec 3 2024 2:29 utc | 228 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 2 2024 21:53 utc | 213 Posted by: Naive | Dec 3 2024 2:31 utc | 229 Posted by: Jerr | Dec 3 2024 1:39 utc | 230 Posted by: Naive | Dec 3 2024 2:32 utc | 230 Posted by: ANON2022 | Dec 2 2024 22:35 utc | 218 Posted by: Naive | Dec 3 2024 2:36 utc | 231 Posted by: hopehely | Dec 3 2024 0:16 utc | 227 Posted by: Barrel Brown | Dec 3 2024 3:23 utc | 232 ‘L’arroseur arrosé’ – Louis Lumière Posted by: Acco Hengst | Dec 3 2024 4:28 utc | 233 Simplicius strikes again. Posted by: diatom | Dec 3 2024 5:22 utc | 234 “Simplicius strikes again.” Posted by: naBisco | Dec 3 2024 6:50 utc | 235 I don’t think that anyone can bring the CIA to submit to its masters. Posted by: Not-a-troll | Dec 3 2024 7:11 utc | 236 Simplicius’ posts are usually amazingly good, but his commentariat is often quite polluted. He needs to clean that shit up. Literally two posters make up 50% of each thread. One is just an annyoing tag-a-long type. Posted by: Not-a-troll | Dec 3 2024 7:15 utc | 237 Simplicius’ posts are usually amazingly good, but his commentariat is often quite polluted. He needs to clean that shit up. Literally two posters make up 50% of each thread. One is just an annyoing tag-a-long type. Posted by: Not-a-troll | Dec 3 2024 7:15 utc | 238 “Just don’t read the comments. Usually just a peanut gallery.” Posted by: naBisco | Dec 3 2024 7:22 utc | 239 Clown control to captain Honk Posted by: 555 | Dec 3 2024 7:34 utc | 240 Posted by: watcher | Dec 2 2024 21:47 utc | 212
But I disagree with the above. Three relevant examples (Japan, Germany and Chechnya) show that if you want to turn a former fanatic enemy into a vassal, you need to punish very, very hard. It’s not evil for the sake of evil, it’s just business, the business of turning enemies into vassals. So if the Russian high command sees it the way I see it, there will be large massacres and vast destruction ahead in Kiev and other major cities of Western Ukraines. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2024 7:49 utc | 241 https://t.me/RVvoenkor/81862 Posted by: guest | Dec 3 2024 7:54 utc | 242
I searched too and couldn’t find anything. She rarely gives sources. I think I’ll have to lose trust in her.
Thanks. Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 3 2024 8:23 utc | 243 Simplicius strikes again. Posted by: salmon | Dec 3 2024 8:58 utc | 244 Posted by: salmon | Dec 3 2024 8:58 utc | 247 Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 3 2024 9:08 utc | 245 Now why should partisans on the ground be doing this while locomotives have barely been hit by Russian missiles and drones for three years now when they should have been a priority target? Posted by: ossi | Dec 3 2024 9:30 utc | 246 The entire logistics of Ukraine is based on electricity Posted by: too scents | Dec 3 2024 9:39 utc | 247 @ salmon | Dec 3 2024 8:58 utc | 247 Posted by: boneless | Dec 3 2024 9:42 utc | 248 The railway switchgear is electric. Trains don’t run without switchgear and signalling. Posted by: ossi | Dec 3 2024 10:05 utc | 249 Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of the special military operation (as of December 3, 2024) Posted by: ossi | Dec 3 2024 10:14 utc | 250 Salmon Dec3 @858 Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 3 2024 10:21 utc | 251 Posted by: salmon | Dec 3 2024 8:58 utc | 247 Posted by: Barrel Brown | Dec 3 2024 10:38 utc | 252 Best post I have read today:
(Japan, Germany and Chechnya) Posted by: MAKK | Dec 3 2024 11:31 utc | 254 Je vous remercie beaucoup. Posted by: Naive | Dec 3 2024 11:52 utc | 255 Posted by: ossi | Dec 3 2024 10:14 utc | 253 Posted by: Naive | Dec 3 2024 12:02 utc | 256 ossi | Dec 3 2024 10:05 utc | 252 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 3 2024 12:27 utc | 257 Posted by: MAKK | Dec 3 2024 11:31 utc | 257
Pfft! Japanese civilians were nuked twice, German civilians were burnt en masse from the air, the destruction of Grozny (twice) still ranks as the most extensive destruction of any European city since WWII. All those events caused the deaths of hundreds thousand civilians which qualifies as extra punishment and the outcome was, well, Japan and Germany became poodles of their Anglo masters and Chechnya warriors became fierce allies of Russians.
This extra punishment doesn’t work if you lose your war of choice so America didn’t turn many extra-punished enemies into vassals but the point is the winner must be merciless, brutal, genocidal (as the allies were against Germany and Japan), in order to tame the fanatic enemy for a very long time. It’s not my thing, I say make money not war, but it’s just how it works. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2024 12:44 utc | 258 DS Map update: Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 3 2024 13:40 utc | 259 I was catching up on Simplicius (Zelensky Finally Breaks: Willing to Accept NATO Membership for Territory Swap) and he touched on a point that still amazes me despite my valid characterization of the West as deeply delusional:
It should be obvious that Russia is fighting with one hand behind their back, and at times even with both hands behind their back. Russia has so far committed little enough of their resources to the war with NATO that they have enough left over for nearly continuous military exercises with other states. Joint exercises with China seem to be almost a daily occurrence. Moreover, the Russians have not done a real mobilization, and for many Russians the war remains a secondary, or even less, background issue. The mobilization of Russia’s domestic industry for war remains tepid, at best. Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2024 14:00 utc | 260 Summary of the Russian Ministry of Defense on the progress made in repelling the attempted invasion of the Ukrainian Armed Forces into the territory of the Russian Federation in the Kursk region (as of December 3, 2024) Posted by: ossi | Dec 3 2024 14:09 utc | 261 And again on German TV Posted by: ossi | Dec 3 2024 14:24 utc | 262 Still, the strategists for Empire seem convinced that the Russians are desperate for a ceasefire with their stated goals yet unfulfilled (…) The misunderstanding of Russia’s place in the conflict by the West is a remarkably complete inversion of reality. Posted by: rk | Dec 3 2024 14:52 utc | 263 rk @266: “There is no misunderstanding.” Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2024 15:20 utc | 264 @ John Kaspar, §244: Posted by: John Marks | Dec 3 2024 17:37 utc | 265 NATO at this point is so desperate that is has launched the following failed inititatives: Posted by: Tobias Cole | Dec 3 2024 18:02 utc | 266 It‘s not just partisan activity, it’s the copycat vandalism as well:
https://regionews.ua/ukr/news/harkovshchina/1733215173-u-harkovi-15-richniy-hlopets-vshchent-spaliv-elektrichku (via translation add-on.) Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 3 2024 19:41 utc | 267 See this today? sorry, my mistake. that FP thread only open for comment if you pay to subscribe. I’d suspect they profit by printing the outrageously wrong – it excites comment so agitated they pay for the privilege… Posted by: arthur brogard | Dec 3 2024 20:06 utc | 269 “The only real guarantee of security and deterrent for Russia is Ukraine’s full membership in NATO. With the bitter experience of the Budapest Memorandum behind us, we will not agree to any alternatives, surrogates or substitutes for this,” the Ministry wrote. Posted by: arthur brogard | Dec 3 2024 20:19 utc | 270 The day of the last Ukrainian currently stands at June 4, 2025. Posted by: Passerby | Dec 3 2024 21:58 utc | 271 There’s an interesting peace proposal called the Hamburg Peace Initiative: Posted by: Multipolar Panda | Dec 3 2024 22:27 utc | 272 @ Multipolar Panda | Dec 3 2024 22:27 utc | 275 Posted by: boneless | Dec 3 2024 22:38 utc | 273 I think it’s fundamental that Russia insists they be a member of NATO at the end of this. That’s the only way to neutralise it and get the USA out. Posted by: Wtf | Dec 3 2024 22:48 utc | 274 NATO at this point is so desperate that is has launched the following failed inititatives: Posted by: Not-a-troll | Dec 3 2024 22:57 utc | 275 The day of the last Ukrainian currently stands at June 4, 2025. Posted by: Newbie | Dec 3 2024 22:58 utc | 276 Judge Nap: Scott Ritter Posted by: Wtf | Dec 3 2024 23:02 utc | 277 @ Wtf | Dec 3 2024 23:02 utc | 280 Posted by: boneless | Dec 3 2024 23:06 utc | 278 There’s an interesting peace proposal called the Hamburg Peace Initiative: Posted by: Naive | Dec 3 2024 23:36 utc | 279 Posted by: abrogard | Dec 3 2024 20:02 utc | 271 Posted by: Naive | Dec 3 2024 23:41 utc | 280 @Multipolar Panda | Tue, 03 Dec 2024 22:27:00 GMT | 275
DOA as it doesn’t address Russia’s core concerns. Allows Ukraine entry into NATO and returns Ukrainian oblasts (now Russian territory). Also, what is a state with “limited sovereignty.” They define it as “free and democratic” but Russia controls its external (read: foreign and defense) policy. That’s not a sovereign state, it’s the equivalent of Northern Cyprus, South Ossetia, Transnistria, or Abkhazia, so Russia might as well absorb them. Posted by: James M. | Dec 3 2024 23:55 utc | 281 Posted by: James M. | Dec 3 2024 23:55 utc | 285 Posted by: Larsbo | Dec 4 2024 0:07 utc | 282 Apparently earlier today: One of the adults in the room, Tucker Carlson reported that after trying in vain to interview with Zelensky (U.S. won’t let him, but said he can talk to CNN anytime). Posted by: WillSeymour | Dec 4 2024 0:25 utc | 283 Excerpt from an article that gives a wider perspective on the conflict:
Posted by: WillSeymour | Dec 4 2024 0:28 utc | 284 Posted by: boneless | Dec 3 2024 22:38 utc | 276 Posted by: Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 0:36 utc | 285 Interesting? Total bullshit. Fuck off agent provocateur. Referenda already happened and the two Republics and the two oblasts are now part of the Federation of Russia. Posted by: Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 0:39 utc | 286 It’s really getting time that somebody nukes something so that this dumb planet with it’s dumb humans vanishes once and for all. Posted by: Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 0:41 utc | 287 @ Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 0:36 utc | 289 Posted by: boneless | Dec 4 2024 0:42 utc | 288 Posted by: boneless | Dec 4 2024 0:42 utc | 293 Posted by: Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 0:49 utc | 289 @ Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 0:49 utc | 295 Posted by: boneless | Dec 4 2024 0:57 utc | 290 Posted by: WillSeymour | Dec 4 2024 0:25 utc | 287 Posted by: Larsbo | Dec 4 2024 1:13 utc | 291 Boneless, Posted by: Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 1:20 utc | 292 Oh, and if it’s still not clear: my advice for Putin would be to NOT settle for anything which depends on some signature on some worthless piece of paper. Posted by: Multipolar Panda | Dec 4 2024 1:29 utc | 293 @299 Posted by: paddy | Dec 4 2024 1:38 utc | 294 @Multipolar Panda | Wed, 04 Dec 2024 01:20:00 GMT | 298
I gave it a read at least, and a fair critique. It is about the minimum some low-level Russian MFA bureaucrat will do before dismissing the Hamburg proposal outright. I suspect no peace proposal will work until Ukraine cries uncle and concedes to Russian demands, all of them. Posted by: James M. | Dec 4 2024 1:48 utc | 295 Paddy – 300 – yes, true, the SMO grinds on daily now, with everlasting gains on all fronts………the Kursk UAF salient has become a huge death trap for the Ukronazis, and threat of the next Hazel strike hangs over all their heads……… Posted by: Tobias Cole | Dec 4 2024 2:37 utc | 296 In “honor” of our commenter providing us daily details of line of engagement ZH has a posting up with the title of Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 4 2024 4:16 utc | 297 Daily DS update: Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 4 2024 4:38 utc | 298 304, psycho: Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 4 2024 4:59 utc | 299 @Not-a-troll | Wed, 04 Dec 2024 04:08:00 GMT | 303
And that’s not significant? You don’t think Western states (definitely not NATO) won’t rethink their calculus when it comes to Ukraine, due to Oreshnik? I guarantee you it will give them some pause. Posted by: James M. | Dec 4 2024 5:03 utc | 300 |
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