Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 13, 2024
Russia Retaliates For ATACMS Strike – Improves Trolling

Those who were waiting for another Oreshnik strike, in response to the U.S. ATACMS attack on a strategic air plane factory in the Russian city of Taganrog, will be disappointed by this:

Statement by Russian Defence Ministry

On 11 December 2024, from the from the territory of Ukraine the AFU delivered a strike by six U.S.-made ATACMS operational-tactical missiles at the military airfield near Taganrog.

In response to the use of U.S.-made long-range weapons, the Russian Armed Forces delivered mass strikes by high-precision air- and sea-based weapons and attack drones at Ukrainian fuel and power infrastructure facilities ensuring operation of the defence industry.

The goal of the strike has been achieved. All the targets have been engaged.

The 'response' has been successful. There is then no additional need to follow up with another Oreshnik strike.

Ukraine has confirmed the success of the strike:

Russia deals 'massive blow' to Ukraine's thermal power plants, energy company says

Russia targeted DTEK's thermal power plants during a mass aerial attack on Dec. 13, damaging their equipment, the company said in a statement.

Moscow's forces launched around 90 missiles and 200 drones in one of its largest mass attacks on Ukraine's power grid as the winter is setting in.

"DTEK thermal power plants were attacked. According to preliminary data, there were no casualties," the company said. The plants' equipment was "seriously damaged," with energy sector employees already working on repairs.

Interestingly the strikes hit mostly in west-Ukraine where electricity and gas from the EU is imported into Ukraine (machine translation):

There is serious damage. According to our source on the energy market, the Burshtyn and Prydniprovska TPPs were damaged (which DTEK indirectly confirmed by reporting equipment damage at one of its thermal power plants), key substations in Odessa, Dnipropetrovsk, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lviv and other regions, and power lines throughout the country.

Ukrenergo has already announced tougher light restrictions. According to the current situation, there are currently three out of six outage queues. "This means that half the country is without electricity," says energy market expert Oleg Popenko. In Odessa, additional restrictions were introduced. "The situation there is very serious, people will sit for some time without electricity for 7-11 hours," Popenko said.

But the risks have increased not only in electricity, but also in gas and heating, as the Russian Federation has again hit the gas infrastructure.

"If there are interruptions in gas supply, the situation with electricity (since TPP and CHPP operate on gas) and heating will sharply worsen. At minus 10 degrees, which meteorologists promise us for a day, the average panel can stand without heating for 36-40 hours, then the system will need to be completely repaired. That is, high-rise buildings can become uninhabitable," says Popenko.

Ukraine had to lower the output of 5 of its 9 nuclear power plants as some relevant substations got it. The unified electricity system of the country is falling apart into islands of generation and consumption. Areas with little generation capacity and high consumption (Odessa) will have the biggest problems.


In comments 'Drifter' mentions a Russian quip about North Korean soldiers in Russia:

Telegram post from 12 hours ago – Yandex machine translation from Russian. Voenkor Kotenok posted the first report (I have found) suggesting actual (limited) use of elite Korean special forces in Kursk a week ago.

Military commander Kotenok

Plekhovo, which was liberated on December 6 in the Kursk direction, was indeed taken by Korean SSR fighters. We passed 2 kilometers through a minefield, broke into the settlement with lightning speed and destroyed the occupation contingent of the ukrovermakht. The operation took about 2.5 hours. They took their "200" and "300" with them.

According to some information, there were no prisoners. They will not take it in the future.

@voenkorKotenok

Nice trolling I'd say, with -of course- zero evidence.

Funny how some people are falling for it.

Comments

Most here have heard of the Soviets falling into a trap by invading Afhanistan…
> Is this situation in Ukraine not similar, not at least similar in intent on the part of the West?…
> Posted by: Keith | Dec 14 2024 14:09 utc | 346

The soviets did not invade Afghanistan. They were invited by the Afghani president of that time to help fight back Al Qeada.

Posted by: Georgie | Dec 14 2024 19:19 utc | 401

Posted by: Georgie | Dec 14 2024 19:19 utc | 407
##############
They probably learned that lesson and decided not to go all-in with Syria.
One minute you’re helping a friend and the next, you’re becoming world-police and getting overextended.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 19:40 utc | 402

> The soviets did not invade Afghanistan. They were invited by the Afghani president of that time
and eventually decided to kill him, siding with a competing faction within Afghanistan elites ever more bloody infighting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm-333
I do not know the exact term for the Soviet presence afterwards, and perhaps “imvasion” would be too strong a word, but “invitation” is hardly ring true either.
Kremlin surely believed this was the least of evil given the situation. It very well may be it really was so.
Still…
Didn’t the Soviet Army kill the invitation by killing the man who extended it?

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 14 2024 19:43 utc | 403


For myself the Oreshnik strike in Dnipropetrovsk was solely a message, I doubt there was anything worthwhile below ground there,
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 14 2024 11:17 utc | 326

Sorry I don’t have links, but during the discussion shortly after Yuzhmash (?name) in Dnipropetrovsk, it was discussed at great length how this facility was
+ 1500 hectares of 4-storie deep nuclear missile production facilities.
+ That it had loading docks and tunnels underground large enough for semi-trucks.
+ That it had it’s own bus system, because walking from one end to the other and back took up most of the day.
+ That the engineers, scientists, & manufacturing personnel were still in the area.
Even if the nuclear-missile production was shutdown, this is/was an entire nuclear-hardened underground city. If you were wondering where to site a decision-making center of NATO Officers — “oh look, here’s an underground city — let’s set up shop there!”
Then there was the pre-Oreshnik verbiage: “Ukraine has to get nuclear weapons… has to restart production…” If you were tasked with that mission, would you (a) break green-field to build a factory from scratch? or would you (b) restart an underground industrial city with much of the appropriate equipment and infrastructure already in place?

Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 14 2024 19:53 utc | 404

Sun Tzu’s golden bridge (lol).
I’m going to give this one a go.
Serious replies and corrections are very welcome (I will try to check for replies —no guarantees, hard days).
Allowing retreat is a possible tactic (decision within the battle) not a iron-clad strategy (overall approaches in fighting wars) and the point of the tactic is to entice the enemy to do what you want it to and go where you want it to go. It tends to work within its scope (ie. those looking to retreat will take the opportunity if it is present) and is irrelevant outside of its scope (ie. winning a war).
“The Art of War” is not intended as dogma.
Am I wrong? (I could easily be wrong, maybe I’ve misunderstood all sorts of things).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 14 2024 20:07 utc | 405


What Oreshnik certainly does is to obsolete the defenses for a lot of NATO bases (esp. the bunker-protected equipment). …
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Dec 14 2024 0:44 utc | 220

If current bunkers were obsoleted, then we should see a new construction “boom” (pun intended).
https://vigilantnews.com/post/police-threaten-man-investigating-mysterious-booms-heard-in-idaho/
https://kezj.com/southern-idaho-booms-what-are-they/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/1h723ks/mysterious_booms_heard_in_idaho/
These “mysterious night-time (sometimes underground) explosions” are happening all over North America, but most of the headlines seem centered around Idaho.

Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 14 2024 20:08 utc | 406

@Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 14 2024 20:07 utc | 411
-Allowing retreat is a possible tactic (decision within the battle) not a iron-clad strategy (overall approaches in fighting wars) and the point of the tactic is to entice the enemy to do what you want it to and go where you want it to go. It tends to work within its scope (ie. those looking to retreat will take the opportunity if it is present) and is irrelevant outside of its scope (ie. winning a war).
“The Art of War” is not intended as dogma.-
I agree with you- it’s more philosophical and talks about things you can do at a very high level and not granular “thou shalt” die hard instructions. And I’ve always loved the idea and thinking behind it. What I’m curious about are real-world examples where someone has done this and it’s worked in their favor. Again, there’s a lot I -don’t- know, but every example I can think of has been a bad result for the side allowing the retreat. Not making this argument to try and prove anyone wrong, just honest curiosity more than anything.

Posted by: Clown Shoes | Dec 14 2024 20:22 utc | 407

I agree with you- it’s more philosophical and talks about things you can do at a very high level and not granular “thou shalt” die hard instructions.
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Dec 14 2024 20:22 utc | 413
############
Absolutely. However, some at the bar think that anything short of nuking Poland is a failure by Putin and Russia.
It goes to the deeper questions that Western thinking completely avoids.
1. Why are we fighting? (values)
2. How do we live afterward? (introspection)
The default Western answers have been genocide or enslavement. There is no evolved peaceful outcome in Western “thinking”.
“We either destroy you or we own you. You can’t have your culture, beliefs, values, or traditions.”

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 20:30 utc | 408

413 – I think the allowing retreat in the SMO is about the Russian (Putin’s?) reluctance to go in for the kill, not some well-thought out ancient Chinese tactic.

Posted by: Waldorf | Dec 14 2024 20:31 utc | 409

“The Art of War” is not intended as dogma.
Am I wrong? (I could easily be wrong, maybe I’ve misunderstood all sorts of things).
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 14 2024 20:07 utc | 411
Yes, I like that. Another point is that whether the “golden bridge” is appropriate depends on the ability of ones enemy to inflict damage while you are busy with exterminating him, e.g. whether he has unstoppable nukes that you cannot guarantee to take out in a first strike.
What is happening in Ukraine is different, an example of when you leave the golden bridge open, but the enemy refuses to use it, wants to keep fighting despite heavy asymmetric losses. That is an opportunity to attrit the enemy asymmetrically, which is what war of attrition is all about. If he does take it, of course then you gain ground at reduced cost.
There is no one-size-fits-all solution to problems of military strategy.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 14 2024 20:32 utc | 410

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 14 2024 20:07 utc | 411
###########
If you believe killing should be avoided, then the logic of a golden bridge should appeal to you.
If you believe in total extermination ala Gaza, then I can understand why you wouldn’t want anyone to survive.
War for extermination is dumb, even for people who do not believe in souls or the sanctity of life.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 20:34 utc | 411

Posted by: Waldorf | Dec 14 2024 20:31 utc | 415
#########
The question becomes, why would the Russians have a reluctance to go for the kill?
Is it cowardice?
Is it a lack of technical ability?
Is it an emotional weakness?
I am more interested in the effect than the rationale myself, but that they haven’t nuked all of NATO by now is a good thing in my opinion.
We know that they have the means to do so.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 20:40 utc | 412

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 20:30 utc | 414
For the Empire, there must be something to gain from this acute, but not too grave, condition of perpetual war. One can nominally keep current ultralibertarian economic policy, while still raising taxes. Musk is a libertarian MIC-man.
There are now countries in Europe, where declaration of a (miniscale) war will soon be the thing to be handled by the government, not by a legislative body of a nation state.
War is normal, peace not.
So, I suppose there is very strict and cruel method to this madness.

Posted by: js | Dec 14 2024 20:45 utc | 413

Kurakhove has fallen according to Dima.
Do we discuss territory changes here anymore or is it all just trolls baiting and other posters taking the bait?

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 14 2024 20:56 utc | 414

@ LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 20:34 utc | 417
-If you believe killing should be avoided, then the logic of a golden bridge should appeal to you.
If you believe in total extermination ala Gaza, then I can understand why you wouldn’t want anyone to survive.
War for extermination is dumb, even for people who do not believe in souls or the sanctity of life.

To be clear, I’m not talking about extermination at all. Rather about literally not allowing your enemy a path to physically retreat. Once they realize they literally can’t get back to their lines, what happens next is of course a big variable but few of the outcomes are usually in the favor of the party that has been cut-off.
Example, Dunkirk. Had the wehrmacht gone in instead of waiting, the BEF would not have been annihilated. Likely the troops would be interned in quite decent conditions as (at that time in the war) Germany was winning and had plenty of resources at their disposal. Further, the Germans would have likely made a point of treating BEF captives very well as they would be a huge bargaining chip to get England to exit the war, whether via surrender or armistice. And of course it would be a very good PR move “look how humane and reasonable we are with how well we treat our enemy captives!”
So far in this conflict the only time that this has truly happened (a large force being completely cut off) at any scale was Mariupol- eventually the remaining AFU in Azovstal chose surrender over annihilation. The fact that RF then released many of those troops later on, many of whom went back to fighting for the AFU is of course another story.

Posted by: Clown Shoes | Dec 14 2024 20:57 utc | 415

Posted by: js | Dec 14 2024 20:45 utc | 419
###############
There is always something to gain. Humans are masters at constructing systems of laws and governance that create disequilibrium for the benefit of favored minorities (“elites”).
War is normal. To struggle for peace and freedom is normal too. I know which side of that battle I am on.
As night follows day, where there is an Empire, there will be resistance.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 20:57 utc | 416

regarding Sun Tzu and the “Golden Bridge”:
This is tactical, not strategic. I’ll use the third/last battle of Vuhledar as an example. I can’t find it ATM but Sun Tzu also says that if you must fight put your army in a position where it must win to survive and it will fight to its utmost. (approximation) This is what the Golden Bridge is about. In Vuhledar they had one of the toughest Ukrainian units, but they had an exfiltration path to the NNW. Attrition on that route was > 30%. But staying was certain death or capture (and because of the two bloody prior battles many Ukrainians did not expect quarter). If they had not had a corridor out they would have stayed and fought like hell with larger resulting casualties on both sides. By leaving the exit route, Russians took Vuhledar with less losses and still destroyed the fighting capability of the units stationed there.
I hope this finds you well

Posted by: ockham | Dec 14 2024 20:57 utc | 417

Posted by: Clown Shoes | Dec 14 2024 20:57 utc | 421
##########
I believe that the released prisoners from Mariupol were part of an exchange.
Russia will always value Russian lives if given the choice to do so, even over revenge or justice. That IMO, is also why they don’t go around willy-nilly nuking everyone, knowing that the repercussions to the Russian people will be dire. If not death, then ostracism and isolation (what is happening to Israel).
It is very easy to critique the Russians from a Western POV because their values are not Western values. I also think people overlook that Russia is a different kind of major power than America. America is shameless with its lies, genocides, and disregard for international law. The Russians hold themselves to a different standard, and their partner in China expects them to do so. In that regard, China helps keep Russia from going too far in the wrong direction, like a friend who makes sure their pal doesn’t drink too much at a nightclub.
America has no such friend, who can say, “Slow down buddy. We gotta work early tomorrow morning.”
It’s all, “NEXT ROUND IS ON THE FEDERAL RESERVE! SHOCK AND AWE! HOORAH!”

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 21:07 utc | 418

Kurakhove has fallen according to Dima.
Do we discuss territory changes here anymore or is it all just trolls baiting and other posters taking the bait?
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 14 2024 20:56 utc | 420
Will wait for confirmation, but that would lead to a nice closing of a nice area just south of it. Then things will start to take a turn.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 14 2024 21:10 utc | 419

Posted by: vargas | Dec 13 2024 20:07 utc | 133
“Russia never dares to destroy 750 KV el. network in Ukraine as it cannot be repaired. What Russia does is destroying 350 KV network that Ukros manage to repair in a day. So Putin is just pretending.”
You really are a whole new level of fool.
If the 750kV backbone is destroyed, all remaining online NPPs will be reliant upon scant and unreliable supplies of diesel for what are likely to be poorly serviced and maintained generators in order to prevent risk of meltdown.
Do you somehow think, in your puerile little mind, that that would demonstrate that Russia is really serious or getting tough? Risking several Chernobyls at the same time…on their very doorstep??
People as stoopid as you should be kept away from access to cutlery without adult supervision.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Dec 14 2024 21:11 utc | 420

The question becomes, why would the Russians have a reluctance to go for the kill?
Is it cowardice?
Is it a lack of technical ability?
Is it an emotional weakness?
I am more interested in the effect than the rationale myself, but that they haven’t nuked all of NATO by now is a good thing in my opinion.
We know that they have the means to do so.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 20:40 utc | 418
It is a inferiority complex of Russians.
They do not dare to do as the West does.

Posted by: vargas | Dec 14 2024 21:15 utc | 421

418 – Perhaps a failure to understand the West’s malice. It took a long time for Putin to stop calling them “partners”.
427 – They probably think they are doing what the West should do. You know, civilisation. Of course, the West is not civilised or is losing what civilisation it had.

Posted by: Waldorf | Dec 14 2024 21:36 utc | 422

It is a inferiority complex of Russians.
They do not dare to do as the West does.
Posted by: vargas | Dec 14 2024 21:15 utc | 427

Real humanistic morals or not.
for the US ( never touched by humanism ) it is winning at any price.
“morally perfect” is winning. nothing else. By whatever means.

Posted by: MAKK | Dec 14 2024 21:36 utc | 423

@LoveDonbass
100% RF isn’t and shouldn’t try to copy the U.S, and for the most part in this conflict they haven’t.
A perfect example, Fallujah which the U.S basically turned into one big free fire zone for, well, everything in their arsenal. Morally, what the U.S did there was 100% in the wrong, however since they achieved their goals relatively quickly, from a non-ethical, morality free standpoint their forces got a gold star for doing what they did (not that I agree with it- but, how many officers have gone on trial for what happened in Fallujah?)
Closest analog for the RF (IMO) would be Bakhmut and that was more toward the end when Prigozhin/Wagner decided to throw everything and the kitchen sink at a relatively small area.
-HOWEVER- One thing that’s been very interesting to observe is that in many cases, the RF have had no choice but to basically do the same thing the U.S does (kill everything that moves, flatten every building thrice) with the key difference that they were forced to do this over a much longer period of time and (I certainly hope) that civilians were non-existent by the time they did this. Example, Maryinka was a slog through hell of over a year to clear, then re-clear, then re-clear again the same spots to the point that the entire town was completely annihilated.

Posted by: Clown Shoes | Dec 14 2024 21:41 utc | 424

Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 14 2024 20:07 utc | 411
re: Sun Tzu’s golden bridge
I’ve never heard that. What I have heard the handling of the Cuba Crisis – here the same idea was expressed by the idea of not cornering a rat:
the need to avoid cornering an opponent (the “cornered rat syndrome”) so as to forestall the possibility of escalation. He also notes that crises are often unexpected and impossible to predict; therefore it is best to avoid military confrontations whenever possible
War and Peace in the Nuclear Age; Europe Goes Nuclear; Interview with Richard Helms, 1986

Posted by: hh | Dec 14 2024 21:43 utc | 425

Sun Tzu, on The Art of Drones, anyone?
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 14 2024 21:43 utc | 426

Posted by: vargas | Dec 14 2024 21:15 utc | 427
##########
Isn’t it a good thing that the Russians don’t commit genocides and break international law?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 21:44 utc | 427

With 36 or so days left until the inauguration of Trump, throwing out a topic for discussion:
What can Trump realistically do to get a ceasefire in Ukraine?
My thought is that by the 20th, the situation in the Southern Donetsk will have deteriorated to the point where the UAF will have to retreat back across the Dnipr. Further north, Pokrovsk may hold out for another month or so. But if I were Russian, I’d tell Trump to go pound a whole ass-load of sand.
The problem for Trump is short of nuking Moscow, there is nothing left on the escalatory ladder. Syria is out of play, for obvious reasons.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 14 2024 21:47 utc | 428

Brzezinski acknowledged in an interview with the French news magazine Le Nouvel Observateur in January 1998 that he initiated a policy in which the CIA covertly began arming the mujahedeen in July 1978—six months before Soviet troops intervened in Afghanistan—with the explicit aim of dragging the Soviet Union into a debilitating war.wsws
Replace Brzezinski with Blinken, Carter with Biden.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 14 2024 21:49 utc | 429

DS map update:
https://deepstatemap.live/en#7/48.7885670/35.1232910
Overall analysis:
On pace day with 22.6 kmsq taken (compare to NOV pace of 23 per day). Most of the acreage was from the N (Kharkov oblast, but on the E side, main front).
Specific changes S to N:
1. 0.1 kmsq in Kurakhove. Very slow pace through the city continues.
2. NEGATIVE 0.6 kmsq NW of Sevchenko, SE of Pischane. (A different Pischane than the one further N. This is the Pokrovsk vicinty.) UFA counterattack.
3. 19.3 kmsq S of Pischane (the “real” Pischane). This is kind of a big change, so I suspect it’s DS cope conversion. But the gray moved also, not just changed color, so it may have some element of a real advance. Hamlets that are threatened are Losova (in a pocket, but still solid UFA control) as well as Zeleny Hai (gray before and after this change). The eventual goal is to take all the land to the E of the Oskil, including the decent sized town of Borova. But advance seems slow. This was the objective months ago. Lot of open fields (gets very wide open up there), so RFA will have to control some open ground.
4. NEGATIVE 0.2 kmsq E of real Pischane. Map correction, not a UFA attack.
[Two advances in the “cross Oskil beachead” in the far north, N of Kupiansk.]
5. 3.6 kmsq E of Masiutivka. Town of Zapadne could be a next step, although still a ways away.
6. 0.4 kmsq S of Dvorichna. (Very close to point [5].)

Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 14 2024 21:58 utc | 430

Whatever, anybody US can’t be “Moderator” as they are party to the conflict.
Central issue in all US activities advertised as “conflict mediation” operations.
dishonest, fraudulent, backstabbing ops.
Posted by: MAKK | Dec 14 2024 16:03 utc | 372
Agreed. I never meant that Trump could succeed as a mediator. Of course, the US is a combatant. Trump has a “hero peacemaker – ie, Nobel Prize” mindset! Lol. He thinks the US can make other countries do stuff, all whilst pretending this fight is solely between Ze and Putin! Lol.
If you were going to have a big round table pow-pow, you’d need NATO admin and UNSC there as well. Still, Putin would not be deterred from the SMO goals. After all, if his opposition didn’t agree to his terms, he’d just stand up and say “Well, we’ll see you on the battlefield and let that resolve the matter”. I’d so love to hear that, and then see the looks on their faces.
One thing many might overlook is that if ever it got to a UNGA vote, all RF’s BRICS friends might carry the vote AGAINST the West. Lots of egg on US and EU faces then.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 14 2024 22:09 utc | 431

Joe Lauria, on the geopolitical importance of Trump’s recent commments:

Among the steps Ritter recommended to Republican Congressmen was to get word to Trump’s transition team to get Trump to make an immediate statement that after he is sworn in he will order a cessation of ATACMS being fired into Russia.
Such a statement from Trump, Ritter argued on Capitol Hill, would lessen tension with Moscow over the ATACMS and possibly avert catastrophe. Trump’s comments to Time was what Ritter had in mind.

https://scheerpost.com/2024/12/14/trump-says-no-to-foolish-us-missile-attacks-on-russia/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 14 2024 22:22 utc | 432

Read the book yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 15:19 utc | 362
Ha ha. No time for such a literary masterpiece. Besides, the author admits to Oxford University how duplicitous he was in his sympathetic writing of essentially a big lie. So YOUR reading of it may be a naive interpretation of a fantasy. I’d believe the author’s retrospective conscience over the concocted words on the page which Trump signed off on and paid $250,000 for. Comprendez?

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 14 2024 22:23 utc | 433

@ Englishman in NY | Dec 14 2024 22:23 utc | 439
“That person admitted they were a liar and I trust him” is an interesting approach to judgement.

Posted by: boneless | Dec 14 2024 22:34 utc | 434

Posted by: boneless | Dec 14 2024 22:34 utc | 440
#########
I mistakenly thought I was writing to a rational actor.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 22:51 utc | 435

Ha ha. No time for such a literary masterpiece. Besides, the author admits to Oxford University how duplicitous he was in his sympathetic writing of essentially a big lie. So YOUR reading of it may be a naive interpretation of a fantasy. I’d believe the author’s retrospective conscience over the concocted words on the page which Trump signed off on and paid $250,000 for. Comprendez?
Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 14 2024 22:23 utc | 439
##########
I read the book and verified it by observing how Trump acted many times before he was President and after he was in office.
An intelligent person should be capable of taking in new information and then verifying it through observation. That is how valuable unique insights are generated.
Less intelligent people tend to allow the opinions of others to inform them without any critical analysis. They also tend to judge books that they have not read, which is the pinnacle of ignorance.
Btw, almost every book written by an ultra-successful person who isn’t an author is ghostwritten by a professional writer. It’s a common and efficient approach.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 22:59 utc | 436

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 14 2024 18:13 utc | 400
I liked your appreciation of (supposed) Trump/US negotiation methodolgy. And to continue the martial arts analogy — in which Putin is skilled — pressure on pain points can be countered by: a greater pressure upon the opponent; wriggling to get out of it to get away or to get domination back. Russia now has so much self sufficiency of income, self protections, alternative ways, friendly supporters, as to resist US pressure in most/all spheres. Putin seems the master of mirroring and tangling up the US in its own web and damaging itself.
Another aspect is that China has not yet entered the tournament (like a tag team partner with Russia) to pressure-point US trade where it hurts. Iow, the US will soon face Putin’s Judo plus China’s Kung Fu!!!
What sport represents the USA? Heavyweight boxing, bully muscle-boys, no rules street fighters, I’d say — ear-biting Mike Tysons. Continual jabs (ie, color revolutions), then attempted knockouts (ie, bombing defenceless countries and their citizens… Libya, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Gaza, anyone?). But clearly neither modality ain’t gunna work on Russia.

Posted by: Just a Voice | Dec 14 2024 22:59 utc | 437

Both Orlov and the Duran stated that HTS really isnt much of army. This is being framed as an invasion, when in fact it is could much more accurate to call it a surrender. This is probably for narrative control, so Assad, Russian and Iran can save face, when in fact the negotiated a deal with Turkey and the U.S.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Dec 14 2024 23:00 utc | 438

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 14 2024 21:49 utc | 435
It wasn’t that covert – I’m old enough to remember seeing the news bulletin in this clip when it first aired.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Dec 14 2024 23:08 utc | 439

Ghost of Zanon | Dec 14 2024 21:47 utc | 434

What can Trump realistically do to get a ceasefire in Ukraine?

I’ve always thought of the Russians as ultra-pragmatists. Anyone who succeeds at real estate development in NYC is surely as well.
Trump might be getting some warped advice, but if he’s looking with his own eyes at all, realizes that all is lost in Ukraine. The only thing left to negotiate about is a few crumbs.
What can he do? Offer some substantial secret concessions to Russia in return for them backing off on taking the whole Black Sea coast (which would turn future Ukraine from a maybe viable country to a giant cow pasture).
What might those concessions look like? No idea. Maybe offer to restore the treaties against hair-trigger nukes? Or, obviously, give Russia back it’s stolen money. Drop the sanctions, etc. Basically, concede Russia’s demands, which are not particularly unreasonable.
Will this look bad? Sure. But nowhere near as bad as Biden’s Afghanistan withdrawal. Or Vietnam, for that matter.
Part of being a master negotiator is realizing when your hand is empty.

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Dec 14 2024 23:10 utc | 440

Just when Hezbollah appears to have won Lebanon the entire chessboard changes with Assad instructing his troops to lay down their arms, the new Iranian President/ Appeaser does nothing and Putin is MIA and it’s all the damn Turks fault. Nothing in politics is a coincidence.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Dec 14 2024 23:14 utc | 441

@ Jon_in_AU | Dec 14 2024 21:11 utc | 426
Several of us have tried to explain that to the troll, but he keeps coming back with that “argument” over snd over…and over, as if our explanations weren’t worth reading.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 14 2024 23:26 utc | 442

Alex seems to thinks there is a Ukraine angle to the comical coup attempt…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vNz4sajCsY&t=694s

Posted by: n | Dec 14 2024 23:34 utc | 443

“The soviets did not invade Afghanistan. They were invited by the Afghani president …”
Posted by: Georgie | Dec 14 2024 19:19 utc | 407
__________________________________________________________
Ok, they were invited to invade. Sheeesh!
Anyway, if you could have saved 40 million lives by letting Hitler win (ie occupy who and what he wanted), would you have let him win?

Posted by: Keith | Dec 14 2024 23:54 utc | 444

Keith | Dec 14 2024 23:54 utc | 450–
I suggest you familiarize yourself with Hitler’s Plan Ost before making any more inane comments like “if you could have saved 40 million lives by letting Hitler win” as well more than that would have died if Hitler’s and Japan’s plans had succeeded. The Chinese Holocaust is very rarely spoken of, but doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 0:02 utc | 445

Putin addressed the 22nd United Russia Congress today. “Putin Speaks to the XXII United Russia Congress” is my report on the event that notes its significance for non-Russians and Russians.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 0:07 utc | 446

Thanks Karl.
You keep toiling away, while myself and others here waste our time with barfleas.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 15 2024 0:22 utc | 447

This loss of power is a catastrophe for the average family living in or near a city. I blame it entirely on Zelensky and his puppet masters in Washington. I’m beginning to think that Biden and his handlers in the White House are suffering from some kind of mental disease. Could this be the result of their dissolute lives to date? (I think I remember that one end result of syphilis, for example, is dementia.) Of course, it could be drugs or some other indulgence of theirs.

Posted by: Jack Gordon | Dec 15 2024 0:26 utc | 448

That person admitted they were a liar and I trust him” is an interesting approach to judgement.
Posted by: boneless | Dec 14 2024 22:34 utc | 440
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 22:51 utc | 441
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 22:59 utc | 442
Ha, I agree, sounds contradictory. But watch the above-mentioned video, consider both aspects — ie, the author’s admissions of falsification vs Trump’s own mythos, then come back and tell me how much faith you’d put in the book and Trump’s ACTUAL business acumen.
LD, you seem to be wholly believing in your own judgement of the book against the author’s admission of writing a fictitious narrative, basically a paid hagiography. Not all ghost writers write fiction to deceive readers. Tony Schwartz admits to doing so. What more can I say.
You write:
“An intelligent person should be capable of taking in new information and then verifying it through observation. That is how valuable unique insights are generated”.
So? Why not take in Tony Shwartz’s new information to your brain AND VERIFY IT through the very prophesies he made 8 years ago which manifested on Jan 6 2020 and since.
So what gives with your fixed perspective? Not afraid of a mental revision, are you? Watch the video and at least reconsider your stance.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 15 2024 0:26 utc | 449

Speaking of improved trolling, just this week I came across this gem: Eduard Khil sings Trololo – https://youtu.be/IVqUecYGnoM?t=146
Certainly worth a couple of minutes, and may come in handy for a clip if you’re so inclined …

Posted by: pessoa | Dec 15 2024 0:54 utc | 450

Melaleuca | Dec 15 2024 0:22 utc | 454–
I don’t think you’re wasting time. Lots of interesting discourse that even the fleas can’t deter. Here’s something to complement Putin’s speech I happened to catch. Medvedev made a somewhat provocative suggestion today at the Congress: United Russia may use its experience in helping to incorporate new territories in the future, since it has already developed such experience:
“This experience may be in demand in the future if new regions very close to us appear in our country, because this is possible.”
I hope to discover the context related to his suggestion but haven’t yet had time to look. This RT report provides some:
“Commenting on the ruling party’s efforts in helping to incorporate and develop the new regions that have joined the country, Medvedev, who currently serves as the deputy chairman of the nation‘s security council and the head of the United Russia party, suggested that this experience could one day come in handy again.”
Medvedev’s suggestion tops TASS‘s webpage at the moment, but it adds very little.
Other interesting news is coming from Georgia:

The ruling Georgian Dream party’s candidate, Mikheil Kavelashvili, has been elected Georgian president, Central Election Commission chairman Giorgi Kalandarishvili said on Saturday….
The presidential election was held in Georgia on Saturday. This is the first time in Georgia’s history that the president is elected not by direct vote but rather by an electoral college.
The Georgian presidential election is recognized valid after over 170 members of 300 lawmakers representing the country’s College of Electors cast their votes, Georgia’s Central Election Commission spokesperson Natia Ioseliani earlier said.

I also caught this nugget:
“General Secretary of Georgia’s ruling party Kakha Kaladze – apologized for nominating Zurabishvili for president in 2018:
“I never said this, but now I will allow myself to apologize to the population for the fact that it is through the efforts of the Georgian Dream that this woman has ended up where she is now. A woman who serves not Georgia but foreign forces with hatred and malice. Thank God that in the new year of 2025 the citizens of Georgia will be congratulated not by her, but by a new president.”
I’d say the prospects of a successful color coup have failed and that eventually, Georgia will reestablish relations with its very longtime ally Russia.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 1:06 utc | 451

Philly | Dec 15 2024 0:52 utc | 457–
Thanks for your reply, but you omitted perhaps the most important point of my analysis:
“Putin mentioned the upcoming Direct Line event which is a marathon Q&A session with Russians and media that often lasts four hours. This is the feedback Putin mentions that’s so critical to good governance. If you read the AI Conference report, you’ll recall how that tech is enabling greater citizen feedback to all levels of Russian federalism, while also improving the performance of bureaucracies. That coming reality is one reason why Putin told the United Russia delegates that their future will be more challenging because the level of feedback will be much higher and thus the demand for solving problems will increase. As a closing thought, think about the relationship you have with whatever political party you support. Does it in-turn support you? From what you read above, can you discern the vast difference in governing philosophy since in Russia all political parties must perform like United Russia if they want citizen support? Can those of us in the West say that if we want government to serve us, the people, then we need political parties that support us in return for our support—that perform with deeds first and then words?” [My Emphasis]
Today’s Russia isn’t the result of only top->down diktat as I note in my closing remark. People can free themselves–Russia, China, and others have.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 1:17 utc | 452

eventually, Georgia will reestablish relations with its very longtime ally Russia.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 1:06 utc | 461

As long as they don’t make the Russians nervous by sending them _another_ president (cough, Dzhugashvili, cough).

Posted by: pessoa | Dec 15 2024 1:29 utc | 453

“I suggest you familiarize yourself with Hitler’s Plan Ost before making any more inane comments like “if you could have saved 40 million lives by letting Hitler win” as well more than that would have died if Hitler’s and Japan’s plans had succeeded. The Chinese Holocaust is very rarely spoken of, but doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 0:02 utc | 451
________________________________________________________
Let me see if i can come up with another inane comment just to rile you up some more, eh, eh, eh.
I’ve never heard of Chinese Holocaust, please do tell me more my learned fellow, i’m sitting up and payinging attention, i promise.
BTW, you’re making me feel much better, it’s always nice to know people are way more fucked up than i am. 😉

Posted by: Keith | Dec 15 2024 1:37 utc | 454

When the helmets start harshwanking each other off to the tune of a thousand retards farting god save the queen, remeber one thing and one thing only.
Think of how unintelligent the average person is.
50% of them are less intelligent than that.
Be informed. Not Entertained.

Posted by: Helmut Herschwank | Dec 15 2024 2:06 utc | 455

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 15 2024 0:26 utc | 456
##########
You make it sound like the world did not hear from Schwartz hundreds of times back in 2015 and that all of this “information” you learned today is some great revelation. LOL

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 15 2024 2:15 utc | 456

Sounds like viewing my Trump ref had an impact upon you. Good to hear.
Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 0:55 utc | 459
Well, yeah it certainly did! Thanks. Some 200 posts back, I was originally looking for explanations about how Trump’s *reputed* business skills might be steering/driving his peace mission negotiations at present. I’m certainly not a MAGA-holic. The guy’s a loony and congenital liar, but might just flip the game. But all I’ve gotten is kickback from certain others attacking my inquiries and denying Shwartz’s perspective on the man and the book. Odd. [Shrug]. Cheers.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 15 2024 2:36 utc | 457

I’ve never heard of Chinese Holocaust, please do tell me more my learned fellow, i’m sitting up and payinging attention, i promise.
Posted by: Keith | Dec 15 2024 1:37 utc | 465

Hey Keith
The reference would be to Manchukio.
You’ve obviously not paying a lot of attention. Don’t they teach anything in high school these days?

Posted by: DM: | Dec 15 2024 2:52 utc | 458

@Boris Badenov
Offer some substantial secret concessions to Russia in return for them backing off on taking the whole Black Sea coast
Putin cannot accept that. The danger and probability is too great that Ukraine will build a fleet and the West will equip it. That is Russia’s open flank. Russia is looking for security, not promises. So it must conquer the entire coast, up to Moldova. That is vital for Russia’s survival.

Posted by: wp007 | Dec 15 2024 2:52 utc | 459

@wp007 | Dec 15 2024 2:52 utc | 471
Yes, this may well be correct. Putin knows what Russia needs, not me.
In any case, Trump’s best play is to go for any crumbs on the table. That’s about it. There’s no big win here, aside from ending the war ASAP. (And maybe saving the European economies, though I’m not sure America cares much about that.)

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Dec 15 2024 3:01 utc | 460

Trump doesn’t really have anything he can offer Russia. Easing sanctions? Promised today, revoked tomorrow. Besides, Russia has developed well despite sanctions.
Threatening with even more arms deliveries to Ukraine, including nukes? Won’t work, Russia can send Hazel anywhere, even to Maria Homeland, Russia has a base in Nicaragua. So it’s a suicide option for Trump.
Biden has destroyed everything Trump could have offered.

Posted by: wp007 | Dec 15 2024 3:12 utc | 461

@wp007 | Dec 15 2024 3:12 utc | 473
Good points. Trump could give the stolen money back, though. Once Russia has it, that’d be a lot harder to retract.
Trump could offer Ukrainian territory. Once the Ukrainian armies have vacated and the Russians have moved in, that’d be a lot harder to retract.
Europe is dying for Russian oil/gas to be turned back on. Trump could do that. Sure, he could just turn it off again, but the EU would be pissed, and Russia wouldn’t even care that much.
It’s not an easy table to play. But I do think Trump has some options. We’ll see.

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Dec 15 2024 3:54 utc | 462

“supply is limited by finite limits.”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 14 2024 18:17 utc | 403
Not really.
Supply is unlimited and has no finite limits.
And it’s in space – waiting.
It’s simply waiting there for us to get to it. We’d get there a lot sooner if we would stop throwing bombs at one another and concentrate on getting to it..

Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Dec 15 2024 4:20 utc | 463

People scratching their heads or complaining about Russian strategy are failing to grasp a fundamental proven fact — Vladimir Putin is an exceptional strategic genius. The appropriate way to analyze anything he does is very difficult for many people these days. What you must do is be humble and think from a position of respect, assuming he is smarter and wiser than yourself. Ask “what is Putin thinking that I am not”? “What does he perceive that I can’t?” From there you might get to sensible assessments.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 15 2024 5:10 utc | 464

Philly | Dec 15 2024 0:52 utc | 457–
Thanks for your reply, but you omitted perhaps the most important point of my analysis:
“Putin mentioned the upcoming Direct Line event which is a marathon Q&A session with Russians and media that often lasts four hours. This is the feedback Putin mentions that’s so critical to good governance. If you read the AI Conference report, you’ll recall how that tech is enabling greater citizen feedback to all levels of Russian federalism, while also improving the performance of bureaucracies. That coming reality is one reason why Putin told the United Russia delegates that their future will be more challenging because the level of feedback will be much higher and thus the demand for solving problems will increase. As a closing thought, think about the relationship you have with whatever political party you support. Does it in-turn support you? From what you read above, can you discern the vast difference in governing philosophy since in Russia all political parties must perform like United Russia if they want citizen support? Can those of us in the West say that if we want government to serve us, the people, then we need political parties that support us in return for our support—that perform with deeds first and then words?” [My Emphasis]
Today’s Russia isn’t the result of only top->down diktat as I note in my closing remark. People can free themselves–Russia, China, and others have.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 1:17 utc | 462
So, “philly”, Karl gave you a straight response. Why did you in turn respond in the bitchiest way possible?
Not sure about you, Philly. Karl is a well liked regular. Remember that.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 15 2024 6:17 utc | 465

@ LoveDonbass #357 (and on)
What lever could Trump apply? I’ve been walking the dogs and thinking.
He could lift some of Joe’s “sanctions from hell” on particular Russian oligarchs.
Those sanctions actually help VVP keep his more troublesome oligarchs in line and at home. They can’t park their super-yachts in any of the cool harbors right now.
I doubt this would be allowed to happen though. Any sanctions lifting will be portrayed as capitulation by the legacy media.
I know the legacy media is dying, but it’s taking too long.
Older (but not wiser) people still believe whatever they say.

Posted by: Inevitability | Dec 15 2024 6:40 utc | 466

Figleaf23 | Dec 15 2024 5:10 utc | 478–
We only get to see what’s happening on the frontstage, while many things transpire on the backstage we can’t observe. Becoming capable of discerning some of what happens backstage is what separates good analysis from great analysis.
Ahenobarbus | Dec 15 2024 6:17 utc | 479–
No problemo amigo.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 6:50 utc | 467

Ahenobarbus | Dec 15 2024 6:17 utc | 479
Respectfully, get stuffed. I gave a straight (clear) response to karl. I will decide what I say and how I say it. Not you.
Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 6:25 utc | 481
Oh, get stuffed, eh? Tell us more about yourself, you clever devil.
So, I’m to get stuffed. Karl gets the bitchiest response possible after he tries to interact with you.
Hear ye, hear ye! We have a new little fellow calls himself “philly”. Watch and he will show you who he is, my good people of the bar!
What more, philly?

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 15 2024 7:01 utc | 468

This Alasdair Macleod discussion is very interesting. Especially the part about Russia can, at an appropriate time, move to a gold standard. Doing that would put the cat among all the noisy pigeons: No need for nukes at all!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TlCMYIU_LM

Posted by: Digital Dinosaur | Dec 15 2024 7:26 utc | 469

You make it sound like the world did not hear from Schwartz hundreds of times back in 2015 and that all of this “information” you learned today is some great revelation. LOL
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 15 2024 2:15 utc | 467
Well, it is! So what. Because I never read the book, nor read any reviews of it, nor heard of Tony Shwartz before yesterday. So what. Just because you’ve read the book doesn’t make it true!
Since you responded to my first reply you have not once inputted to my original query, just condescended upon me and my reasoning. I’ve noticed you are a master of sidestepping actual analysis of people’s sincere queries, and any self criticism, and instantly go for the cheap insult comeback. You make posts of either “I agree with you on that” or “you’re an idiot”. So I’m done with you. I think someone once called you a bigot, with which I fully concur.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 15 2024 7:39 utc | 470

There was nothing bitchy in my response to karl. why would there be, as he never offended me like you have here. Get stuffed.
Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 7:21 utc | 485
Fwiw, I read no bitchiness in your response to Karl at all. But old RedBeard is well known to often jump at shadows via his own substance and ideological paranoias. And fwiw, Karl does not ever respond to bitchiness. But he does politely respond to those who treat him with respect. So there’s your answer on how HE TOOK your reply to him. 😉

Posted by: Just a Voice | Dec 15 2024 7:53 utc | 471

Posted by: Digital Dinosaur | Dec 15 2024 7:26 utc | 487
Always felt it will be decided in the currency field. Federal reserve and global acceptance of dollar created the most powerful empire having total dominion in finance and military
It also created the biggest debt, along with rejection of dollar which will cause empire’s downfall. Russia China and allies got to hang in there absorb the pressure and boom. They can regain all lost territory and influence after empire collapse
Another weakness, empire not much concerned about defence as it is all offense and doesn’t expect any attack. That is why it failed in Vietnam to Afghanistan to Houthis
2001 Britsh and Irish lions rugby tour down under considered one of the greatest. Second test Wallabies under John Eales (what a leader of men) pinned at their touch line first half absorbing unbelievable pressure. Then one intercept by Joe Roff and it was all over for Lions
Russia and allies got to absorb the pressure. Their intercept will come. Then all over for good

Posted by: Michael J | Dec 15 2024 7:57 utc | 472

I do NOT agree with the b’s Statement that

Interestingly the strikes hit mostly in west-Ukraine where electricity and gas from the EU is imported into Ukraine (machine translation)

there had already been an attack almost 4 weeks earlier ( at the time of Biden’s decision to allow ATACMS deployment on Russia )
e.g. —> see Mukachevo substation and several times reports about Stryi
https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12537536@egNews
“…This morning, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation delivered a massive strike by high-precision air- and sea-based weapons, strike drones on critical energy infrastructure facilities that supported the Ukrainian defence industry and enterprises that produce military products. All planned targets were engaged…”
see
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/11/ukraine-open-thread-2024-276.html#comments
about the discussion + a map about this attack
Otherwise, the Russian Ministry of Defense has reported weekly attacks on the energy infrastructure
e.g. –> https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12527287@egNews
as no destinations are mentioned there, you can combine it with Southfront
e.g. –> https://southfront.press/military-overview-devastating-russian-strikes-pounded-ukraine/
for a list of the targets
for those interested :
https://tgstat.ru/channel/@rezervsvo —- Reports of attacks on both sides
and for the aluminum hats who don’t believe in blackouts in ukr.:
https://t.me/s/Ukrenergo

Posted by: ghiwen | Dec 15 2024 8:10 utc | 473

https://youtu.be/WvMmaf7EZ58?si=C6b6EjY78fapo5m3
This is the Joe Roff intercept mentioned in comment 490 which finished off Lions
Russia and allies intercept moment will come. Till then defend with all might and heart

Posted by: Michael J | Dec 15 2024 8:34 utc | 474

Well, it is! So what. Because I never read the book, nor read any reviews of it, nor heard of Tony Shwartz before yesterday. So what. Just because you’ve read the book doesn’t make it true!
Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 15 2024 7:39 utc | 488

And yet here you are opining about things you yourself think you know or understand, without having the slightest factual knowledge on the matter.
How very “English” of you! LMAO

Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Dec 15 2024 9:24 utc | 475

Fighting a viper by striking it’s tail while the head does whatever it wants, both with it’s fangs and the tail?..

Posted by: Arctaroll | Dec 15 2024 10:04 utc | 476

Many people insist direct attack to NATO facility. I think that is exactly, what west wants to justify sending troops into Ukraine. Russia needs no more enemies inside the Ukraine. Just now, everything is going according to plan so inviting NATO forces would only make things harder. When Ukrainians are finished, then possible NATO invasion is more easily manageable. These are cold facts and not emotional diaharrea.

Posted by: Pavi | Dec 15 2024 10:32 utc | 477

I try not to comment very often on what I think Russia should do, I am not part of Russian General Staff. Instead, I observe what Russia actually does and apply that, together with information from other (at first sight) indirect sources, to form a viewpoint, and that viewpoint is that the West, at least the media-consuming sheeple therein, has no idea exactly how much trouble it is in.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 13 2024 19:19 utc | 107

And that’s exactly why I really cherish your postings in here. You’re highly appreciated

Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 15 2024 11:02 utc | 478

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2024 1:06 utc | 461
Also thanks a lot to you karlof for your invaluable contributions.
I guess I’m getting sentimental.

Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 15 2024 11:19 utc | 479

Posted by: Pavi | Dec 15 2024 10:32 utc | 495

Many people insist direct attack to NATO facility. I think that is exactly, what west wants to justify sending troops into Ukraine.

No. The West can send troops any time they want, but we don’t want to, this is a proxy war and it has to remain a proxy war.
The proxy on the other hand, ukrops, it is them wishing that Russia attack directly some NATO assets outside of the current theater so they can save their asses by bringing in NATO into the theater. Ukrops in general think it is unfair that they receive nearly all the beating, though ukrop Jewish elites in particular console themselves looking at the balance of their foreign bank accounts and list of real estate assets.
Many concern trolls here calling for Russian attacks on NATO assets outside the theater are ukrainian nationals hoping in vain to influence the course of the war.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 15 2024 11:36 utc | 480

Posted by: Philly | Dec 14 2024 13:37 utc | 340

Its usefulness is to deter.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 14 2024 10:28 utc | 314
If Oreshnik was meant to deter but has failed to do that, doesn’t that prove its current use is ineffective? Especially given Russia’s explicit threats to target NATO territory if attacks on Russia continued. The broader illogic is clear: NATO supplies and guides missiles like ATACMS for strikes on Russian territory, yet insists it’s not at war with Russia. If roles were reversed, such actions would be seen as war. The pretense of “not at war” undermines credibility on all sides.

Liar
where is there a explicit threat to attack NATO territory ?
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/75092 about long-range missles
“….If this decision is made, it will mean nothing short of direct involvement – it will mean that NATO countries, the United States, and European countries are parties to the war in Ukraine. This will mean their direct involvement in the conflict, and it will clearly change the very essence, the very nature of the conflict dramatically.
This will mean that NATO countries – the United States and European countries – are at war with Russia. And if this is the case, then, bearing in mind the change in the essence of the conflict, we will make appropriate decisions in response to the threats that will be posed to us…..”

Posted by: ghiwen | Dec 15 2024 11:50 utc | 481

destroyed the occupation contingent of the ukrovermakht.
Posted by b on December 13, 2024 at 16:59 UTC | Permalink
Looks like machine translation from Russian. Perhaps instead of ‘ukrovermakht’ use ‘ukro-Wehrmacht’?

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 15 2024 11:50 utc | 482

Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 11:46 utc | 500

The logical conclusion suggests that Russia should take decisive action immediately, including a significant missile attack on U.S. and NATO forces, without waiting for further provocations like an ATACMS strike.

This is what ukrops want, to save their assess and not to be complete losers.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 15 2024 12:04 utc | 483

Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 11:49 utc | 501

I am not a Ukrainian national.

Lol!
You certainly look a lot like one of them.
But listen, nothing you write here will change anything.
NATO will keep trying under the proxy war paradigm until it quits.
Russia will keep the war inside the Ukraines.
Ukraine will cease to exist as an anti-Russian state.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 15 2024 12:10 utc | 484

My argument suggests that the U.S. and NATO do not require justification or provocation to act; they have the capability and authority to deploy troops or admit Ukraine into NATO at any time, regardless of Russia’s actions.
Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 11:46 utc | 500
And yet, rather than take the ‘simple’ act of admitting Ukraine, which could have happened at any point in the last 20 years, NATO has failed to do so. Ever wonder why? Or why NATO are reduced to ‘hitting’ Russia with only the tiniest of pinpricks in relation to the size of the territory of the Russian Federation? as for NATO troops, frankly there arent any that exist in the numbers required to make a difference. Not that they’d deploy them anyway.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Dec 15 2024 12:24 utc | 485

Posted by: Digital Dinosaur | Dec 15 2024 7:26 utc | 487
Always felt it will be decided in the currency field. Federal reserve and global acceptance of dollar created the most powerful empire having total dominion in finance and military
It also created the biggest debt, along with rejection of dollar which will cause empire’s downfall. Russia China and allies got to hang in there absorb the pressure and boom. They can regain all lost territory and influence after empire collapse
Posted by: Michael J | Dec 15 2024 7:57 utc | 490
Thanks guys for raising an element of the US/Russia conflict that is seldom mentioned here or anywhere else as everyone concentrates on the military aspects.
The economy, or to be more accurate the debt of the US is its Achilles heel. Left to roll on it could continue a while but at some stage creditors of the USG are going to have to turn round and say enough is enough. The US$ and other fiat currencies are only as good as the faith there is in them and if that goes it is over but no-one really wants that to happen as financial chaos will affect all.
The Sword of Damocles in this situation is gold, or as some put it ‘real money’. If a fiat currency becomes backed by gold it is no longer expandable at will with a printing press so gains the ultimate ‘faith’.
There are only two major countries with enough gold to pull this off, China and Russia. They clearly don’t want to do it as it is a two edged sword but Russia in particular being less exposed to exports, if pushed too hard by the US, could.
This is the economic weapon with its own MAD.

Posted by: JohninMK | Dec 15 2024 12:41 utc | 486

Yes, I’ve wondered about that and thought it through carefully. I’m well aware of the existing facts.
Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 12:44 utc | 509
And dont the existing ‘facts’ suggest to you that NATO will never permit Ukraine into its orbit – despite you claiming it to be a ‘simple’ measure to take?
This is demonstrated by the fact they have got involved in a costly and bloody conflict instead, punctuated by a few pin pricks towards the RF here and there – because its the most they can do.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Dec 15 2024 12:57 utc | 487

Posted by: Philly | Dec 15 2024 13:34 utc | 512

… always promising (threatening) to strike back hard but never does. iow being a Mouse that Roars.

Typical Ukrainian talking points. It’s easy to see straight through this sophistry.
Russia started the largest war in Europe since WWII, and yet you claim it is the mouse that roars.
It’s a very tired and worn out trope.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 15 2024 14:22 utc | 488

Mary | Dec 14 2024 14:37 utc | 354

no more rouge elephant.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 14 2024 11:28 utc | 329
Are you saying the orange makeup is coming off? Or did you mean to type “rogue?”
😉 sorry, couldn’t resist.

They’re all disguised as Trump !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Dec 15 2024 15:37 utc | 489

sean the leprechaun | Dec 14 2024 15:03 utc | 356

dan of steele@323…..if you have some compassion and empathy you should feel sorry for those people who insist on correcting grammar and spelling errors, Spelling Prefects…..imagine the pathetic shallow petty lives they lead when the highlight of their day and to show their own pompous magnanimity is to correct spelling errors…..so sad.
Cheers M

Coming from a man* who can’t spell ‘leprecohen’ correctly ! LOL !
*Your view may vary.

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Dec 15 2024 17:50 utc | 490

Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 14 2024 20:07 utc | 411

Sun Tzu’s golden bridge (lol).
I’m going to give this one a go.
Serious replies and corrections are very welcome (I will try to check for replies —no guarantees, hard days).
Allowing retreat is a possible tactic (decision within the battle) not a iron-clad strategy (overall approaches in fighting wars) and the point of the tactic is to entice the enemy to do what you want it to and go where you want it to go. It tends to work within its scope (ie. those looking to retreat will take the opportunity if it is present) and is irrelevant outside of its scope (ie. winning a war).

“The Art of War” is not intended as dogma.
Am I wrong? (I could easily be wrong, maybe I’ve misunderstood all sorts of things).

You are not wrong. I would say that ‘misdirection’ is the key.

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Dec 15 2024 18:08 utc | 491

this thread had become exceedingly long. lately, people are raising sound arguments over putin’s double words making him appear to lose his credibility. i find it amazing that when one makes a valid argument here, he or she is immediately branded as a troll. putin is playing 5d chess.. the russians are playing chess, not checkers .. fuck that.. i used to be in that line but after losing syria, i change my mind. if i were a syrian, why would i make a real fight when you make deals with erdogan such as idlib just to appease him? i just found that so many barflies are opinion dictators.

Posted by: andreweed | Dec 15 2024 18:51 utc | 492

Thank you to Sarlat La Canède ( Dec 15 2024 18:08 utc | 516 ) and everyone else who also gave their views.
I don’t have anything ready to add but wanted to say thank you and that I’ve read them all since for once I actually did before losing track of the thread or taking too long to reply 🙂

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 16 2024 2:57 utc | 493

Posted by: Philly | Dec 16 2024 0:01 utc | 518

… where people fail to reason based on facts.

Lol!
Fact 1: You repeated an old and tired trope of calling Russia the mouse that roars.
Fact 2: Putin started the largest war in Europe after WWII and won two other earlier minor wars where the West used proxies.
So you’re obviously full of it, unable to address this flagrant contradiction in your ‘opinions’, lacking in logical capacity.
You could be dangerous, calling on Russia to abandon its winning and contained strategy and start attacking NATO assets in Europe.
You want the war to spread outside the Ukraines.
Making common cause with repulsive ukrop beggars, most likely because you are one of those losers, traitors to their own race.
But you are not dangerous, your opinions are lame and inconsequential.
Opinion all you want, spend the day defending your ‘opinions’.
Nothing will change.
There are no opinion dictators here except in your feverish imagination.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 16 2024 8:45 utc | 494

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 16 2024 8:45 utc | 520
Johan, I might agree with you, but it is Russia that puts herself in trouble, warning that they will make “mirror” retaliations and then failing to do so. Avoiding escalation might be a responsible strategy, but threatening in vain only invites more provocations.

Posted by: Christian | Dec 16 2024 17:02 utc | 495