Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 17, 2024
Russia – Agree To Be Provoked Or Fall For Lucy’s Football?

Early this morning assassins from the Ukrainian Military Intelligence Service killed Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov, the commander of the Russian Radiological, Chemical, and Biological Defense Forces, in Moscow:

Lieutenant-General Igor Kirillov, commander of the nuclear, biological and chemical forces of the Russian army, died in a blast as he was heading out of a residential block in Moscow, the Russian Investigative Committee said in a statement.

An explosive device was hidden in an electric scooter parked nearby. Kirillov’s aide also died in the attack, the investigative committee said, announcing a criminal investigation. Video footage obtained by POLITICO corroborates that version of events.

Kirillov lived in a normal apartment block. His aide was picking him up for work. They were observed and someone who was watching (and filming) them pulled the trigger.

Kirillov was well known. He gave several public presentations about secret U.S. bio-warfare experiments in Ukraine:

Writing on Kirillov’s passing, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zakharova said that throughout his career he had repeatedly exposed the crimes of the “Anglo-Americans” such as “NATO provocations with chemical weapons in Syria, Britain’s manipulations with prohibited chemical substances and provocations in Salisbury and Amesbury, the deadly activities of American biolabs in Ukraine, and much more.”

“He worked fearlessly. He did not hide behind people’s backs,” Zakharova wrote.

This is of course a provocation designed by Ukraine to make peace talks with Russia, as president-elect Donald Trump presumably favors, less possible.

The question for Russia is now how to react to it.

Should it hit back with its whole might and destroy the 'decision making centers' in Kiev who are responsible for this incident? (Note: An accurate definition of 'decision centers' would include the embassies of the U.S. and Great Britain in Kiev.)

Or should it hold back and hope that negotiations about Ukraine with Donald Trump will actually achieve some positive, if temporary, results?

It is a difficult question.

The general configuration of the incoming Trump administration is hawkish.

It is thus highly unlikely, James George Jatras writes, that any agreement which could be seen as positive for Russia will be worth the paper it is written on:

[T]he Russians have made it clear that they will accept no temporary truces, no ceasefires, no more promises made to be broken like piecrusts, no pauses as cynical tricks to get the Russians to forgo their current and growing military advantage. (…) No, they insist, there must be either a genuine, definitive, binding settlement that ensures a lasting peace based on mutual security, or Russian forces will press on until their objectives – notably “demilitarization and denazification” of Ukraine – are achieved militarily. Such an outcome would mean at least replacement of the current regime in Kiev and, more likely, the end of Ukraine’s statehood.

For the West, this would constitute a total debacle of Afghanistan-like proportions effectively signaling the end of US hegemony in Europe, the [Great American Empire’s] crown jewel. What can Trump offer the Russians to avoid that?

[T]he real question for the Trump Administration becomes a political one of how much wiggle room there is in the Russians’ stated determination not to rely on more promises of the sort that have been repeatedly broken in the past. Put another way: if Trump-Lucy wants to avoid utter defeat in the European theater of the worldwide confrontation between the GAE and BRICS-Eurasia, so he can get on to mixing it up with Iran and China, can he dupe Putin-Charlie Brown into taking another run at the football?

I think he at least has a good shot at it.

Jatras lists several points that the U.S. could temporarily concede to Russia only to later pull the proverbial football on each of those items.

Russia would of course expect this. But the opening question – to fall for the provocation or to find an alternative way – can also be asked within a larger context.

In 2019 RAND, the Defense Department's think-tank, published the main policy paper that led to the war in Ukraine.

Extending Russia – Competing from Advantageous Ground

Its summary says:

This report examines a range of possible means to extend Russia. As the 2018 National Defense Strategy recognized, the United States is currently locked in a great-power competition with Russia. This report seeks to define areas where the United States can compete to its own advantage. Drawing on quantitative and qualitative data from Western and Russian sources, this report examines Russia's economic, political, and military vulnerabilities and anxieties. It then analyzes potential policy options to exploit them — ideologically, economically, geopolitically, and militarily (including air and space, maritime, land, and multidomain options). After describing each measure, this report assesses the associated benefits, costs, and risks, as well as the likelihood that measure could be successfully implemented and actually extend Russia. Most of the steps covered in this report are in some sense escalatory, and most would likely prompt some Russian counter-escalation.

Arming Ukraine, and pushing it into provoking a Russian intervention, was seen as the most 'profitable' way to weaken the Russian Federation.

By starting the Special Military Operation in Ukraine Russia had actually fallen for the provocation RAND had planned for it. For Russia there was, at that moment, no alternative.

U.S. anti-Russia hawks will try their best to keep Russia bogged down in Ukraine.

But others see the growing danger that a prolonged conflict creates for the West. The economic damage it has caused is already substantial. It is also diverting U.S. capacities from countering China.

Trump's peace allures may thereby become a real alternative for Russia to climb out of the RAND trap.

It is either all in, take Kiev and defeat Ukraine as a state, or take the negotiation route, concede on some issues and agree to an imperfect solution which may (or more likely not) turn out to be permanent.

Russia's president Vladimir Putin, and the circles around him, will have the ponder these difficult questions.

Comments

Maybe Russia should start assassinating American Healthcare CEOs.

Posted by: Ook | Dec 17 2024 23:34 utc | 201

Putin is such an idiot that it is a waste of time to expect him to respod to anything! Power really corrupt! Putin obscession to appears intelligent and with some sense help his ennemies to bite is hands.
Time aftre time is indecissness has bolden west to cross all his red line! This latest murder won’t push Putin to do something! In fact he is already talking about pointless reporting the case o the UN.
The problem with Putin it is that he have a 1945 war mentality while the world has evolved! Putin his just USELESS!

Posted by: Kvichnov | Dec 17 2024 23:39 utc | 202

Linked to the upcoming FF? Trying to tie Russia to it by giving a plausible motivation?

Posted by: Tallow | Dec 17 2024 23:39 utc | 203

Russia should behave the same regardless of whether Mickey or Goofy welcomes people to Disneyland.
“Empire of Chaos”! Remember? Part of it is: One talking head says one thing, another says something else. Or says ten contradictory things. It means nothing. All that matters is what they’re doing. Gosh, many of you well-read people still fall for the misdirection. That’s one way to lose.
If you think change in personalities matter, then it works both ways: If Russia seriously escalates now, people in D.C. will probably be shocked, seek to distance themselves, and leave any response to the next administration in Jan 21.

Posted by: I forgot | Dec 17 2024 23:43 utc | 204

I think the Jatras article is worth commenting on.
The US are now at stage of openly pre-announcing their perfidy in agreements.
Seems astonishing that this is acceptable, i.e. that no value is placed on their word being believable.
But Empire doesn´t really do diplomacy as such.
Likewise nobody blinked when they announced Misk was a fraud, or when they tore up agreement with Yanukovych.
(which was ratified by the EU itself to be the best of all possible deals for the Ukraine itself)
Really this is a major issue just because it is open-ended, not limited to Russia, but who in the world would
trust the EU or any NATO state as mediator when they´ve so casually violated their own approved agreements?
All the talk of NATO peacekeepers, or NATO with serial numbers filed off, or NATO security guarantees etc are a joke.
It´s clear Russia intends to leave some Ukrainian state, if ¨decommunizing¨ means Novorussia, Kharkov, Sumy join Russia.
But leaving that state free to NATO meddling and military cooperation (against Russia) ignores the core issue for them.
(the territorial changes via plebiscite are by far secondary issues, see former willingness to cede Donbass)
IMHO Russia will not settle for anything less than ¨active neutrality¨ i.e. guarantees to keep NATO out.
De jure accession to the Union State may not be necessary, but the arrangement will be something close to that.
I.e. Ukraine constitutionally rejects military-political relations with NATO, and Russia is authorized to support that.
(because previous constitutional neutrality provisions have not been adhered to, also see current NATO-oid Moldovan regime)
In the end, the US can declare any outcome to be a victory, it doesn´t matter what the details are.
As Jatras invoked the desire to not have another Afghanistan scale failure…
Well, Afghanistan didn´t end the imperial delusions, so why would losing Ukraine vs Russia need to?
Just declare that it doesn´t, and that´s that.
The RAND strategy of (over) ¨extending¨ Russia can also clearly be seen in the Syrian events.
Although I was interested in ¨MI6 diplomat¨ Alastair Crooke´s comments on Gulf influence on Assad
leading him to rejecting earlier offers of military support from Russia and from Iran, as if
minimizing their influence would be more conducive to good relations with the latter (and their investment etc).

Posted by: peace | Dec 17 2024 23:48 utc | 205

Maybe Russia should start assassinating American Healthcare CEOs.
Posted by: Ook | Dec 17 2024 23:34 utc | 205
______
Best comment of the day!

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 17 2024 23:49 utc | 206

Could I run the UK better than the current government? Yes, but so could a dead gerbil or a Calcutta vagrant. America would be much harder: I would be lucky to survive the month. This is why all Americans need to be profoundly grateful for President Trump, who has literally survived everything thrown at him.
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Dec 17 2024 22:51 utc | 174
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Americans do not appreciate the degree of evilness of the people elected to office. They mostly serve the God of mammon and only vote according to the wishes of their masters, the highest bidders. At all levels, the U.S. political system is a bought-and-sold instrument of the ruling class. It is dead as an instrument of change and rejuvenation for common working people. In time, I could be arrested for simply expressing these thoughts: that is our future in America, downhill all the way while ass-bite billionaires continue to prosper.
Trump is among the worst of them; he is an ignorant baboon who accidentally entered politics when America was at its worst (we thought). He and Hillery are flukes of the universe, a sign of how low America has sunk as an imperialist hegemon, but then there was Biden.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 17 2024 23:51 utc | 207

If Russia seriously escalates now, people in D.C. will probably be shocked, seek to distance themselves, and leave any response to the next administration in Jan 21.
Posted by: I forgot | Dec 17 2024 23:43 utc | 209
You’re badly misreading the current cast in the White House. While the CIA and AIPAC will continue to be a going concern, the current crop of neocons are the ones who pushed the Ukraine war, and it will be easier to end it with them gone.
The problem with the Rubins, Frums, Weissmans and Bloombergs going all out against Trump is that he’s quite aware how bizarrely hostile they are. I’m sure Assad, among other people, far preferred President Trump’s time in office to that of Joe Biden.

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Dec 17 2024 23:51 utc | 208

But what worries me is that Putin wants to inform the ukronazis before the next it.
Kinzhals would do the job quite well too. Without warning.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 17 2024 22:27 utc | 163
There is some confusion and conflatiin circulating on this point.
– Putin said he did/would pre-warn IN THE CONTEXT of civilians evacuating for humanitarian reasons, ie Ukie factories. This might or might not be done for purely military bases or command centres, including Bankova.
– Russia and the US have some kind of courtesy “auto-inform” protocol to forewarn each other if an ICBM is just a test. If no warning, it’s for real. Duh.
– People have conflated the above two motives into compulsory Oreshnik notice. Ain’t so.
– The US knows damn well that Putin would never first-fire any nuke into Ukraine or EU (or space) unless/until an existential threat warrants it. Nuking Kiev is laughable, as is Rammstein for a Moscow assassination or even ATACMS towards Rostov. RF has recently rephrased their nuke doctrine to preempt overt existential third party strikes (ie US/NATO) from WITHIN Ukraine. Then Yushmash was the notice “Hey! Watch this and weep. We don’t have to send a nuke, so watch your step”. I think that was the real reason for fore-notice 🙂
– Oreshnik and Kinzhal and others hold no moral obligation for forewarning. And Putin will (not yet, at least) fire ANYTHING outside of Ukraine, no matter how much MoA members might like it. Too many forget how firmly Putin adheres to an SMO-only strategy. However an *unambiguous* strike into Russia proper from NATO territory would signal a state of war upon the RF and that would immediately cause a legal Duma re-definition into formal war … and then it’s a different ballgame. US/NATO is skating very close to that via the ambiguity of ATACMS ISR support. Everything … inclusive of that … is kinetic WITHIN Ukraine — with or without notice. And that’s where the missiles will stay for now.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 17 2024 23:53 utc | 209

I just listened to a short , Zionist , News Bulletin from Birmingham’s Muslim Brotherhood Radio Station, Unity FM stating that Ann Snow, , British Special Envoy to Syria, met Jolani in Damascus , and called Assad a Dictaor.
Well , now we know who organised the coup, Britain and and their proxy, Muslim Brotherhood. Many years of deception and Orwellian gobshite went into this coup.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 17 2024 23:59 utc | 210

Daily DS map update is out.
https://deepstatemap.live/en#9/50.2884618/37.2930908
Various small advances in south Donetsk from Vesyla Novasilka to Pokrovsk fronts. Total 8.5 kmsq which is quite low, compared to the average NOV pace of 23/day.

Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 18 2024 0:02 utc | 211

10 year at 4.3%
that interest rate brings peace. De-Dollarization is what matters.
Posted by: exile | Dec 17 2024 20:07 utc | 105
As the Fed and other Central Banks dictate the reduction of Short Term Interest rates, Long Term (mainly market driven) rates keep rising. Soon if the War Mongering Chosen keep bleeding financially, they will have to start printing/conjuring again so Government (the U.S. Fed) can buy up Government Debt (the U.S. Treasury).
It is preposterous to look at the Ruble/USD exchange rate since there is very little Russia needs to purchase outside her borders. 21% interest encourages savings, allocates those savings into capital for investment and in a resource rich country like Russia, capital can be recovered quickly.
It is the West that squanders scarce capital, it is the West that kills Savers while gifting Printed Capital and low interest lows to its favored Money Wasters.
Russia’s biggest ASSET is the Western Politicians. A more corrupt set of rigid Morons couldn’t have been found if Russia got to choose them herself.

Posted by: kupkee | Dec 18 2024 0:03 utc | 212

@ LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 22:17 utc | 159
re: Never forget that America legally has a “One China” policy while it keeps selling weapons to Taiwan and speaking about defending Taiwan from China.
That one china would be the People’s Republic of China, in Beijing. To add to your comment, in Taipei officially they call themselves the Republic of China. So the de facto claim is two Chinas which the UN has said is wrong (of course).

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 18 2024 0:03 utc | 213

The Russians learn to be very good at chess at a young age. The issue here isn’t that the Russians can’t find a winning strategy, it’s that they are dealing with psychopaths who think that men can get pregnant and that little girls should have artificial penises surgically attached to them, and that all is a great idea.
Given the enormity of the mental illness and evil Putin is confronted with, let’s cut him some slack. I seriously doubt that anyone at the bar, or who has ever been at the bar, could do better.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 22:25 utc | 161
##########
VVP deserves every credit for saving Russia since 2000 up to date, clearing the mess Yeltsin did. Maybe Yeltsin eventually realised what he did and chose Putin to make up for his mess. It was a daunting task and Putin rose to the challenge. I agree it’s difficult and dangerous to deal with the crazy talmudic psychos whatever course of actionyou choose, just wonder whether more assertive actions could stop them. I love Donbass (and Russia) too!

Posted by: Christian | Dec 18 2024 0:06 utc | 214

Why are the Ukrainians in Russia? Kick them out.

Posted by: Q | Dec 18 2024 0:06 utc | 215

You’re badly misreading the current cast in the White House. While the CIA and AIPAC will continue to be a going concern, the current crop of neocons are the ones who pushed the Ukraine war, and it will be easier to end it with them gone.
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Dec 17 2024 23:51 utc | 213
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Do you mean by replacing them with a NEW CROP of neo-cons? Neo-cons are neo-cons. There is no such thing as a Democratic Party neo-con or a Republican Party neo-con; they are bi-partisan and interchangeable. They all read the same reactionary Leo Strauss books, and they all believe in Platos’ “big lie” theory. Quit fooling yourself, Mister.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 0:11 utc | 216

Russian restraint is preventing World War III. It wouldn’t be wise to give the West the war it desperately desires. Western economies and governments are showing great weakness at this point in time. If Russia can keep the war contained, the collapse of Western banking will end the threat.
If the West wants to attack itself to create an excuse to go to war with Russia, then Russia will bring on the big guns and shut down the West before they ever get started.
Russian strength is preventing World War III. If they were somehow forced into direct conflict with the West, Russia would escalate quickly with large strikes on American and European targets.
…because it’s existential. The West knows this. They need a big war, but they don’t need a hypersonic nuke up their ass.

Posted by: A rope leash | Dec 18 2024 0:20 utc | 217

The Perps are well known. There is now NO reason for any more Delay. There is now NO EXCUSE for Denial. It is clearly now imperative to implement DEPOSE. With EXTREME Prejudice!
☠️

Posted by: skull 💀 | Dec 18 2024 0:21 utc | 218

Why are the Ukrainians in Russia? Kick them out.
Posted by: Q | Dec 18 2024 0:06 utc | 221
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About 1,227,555 Russian-speaking Ukrainians fled to Russia to escape the war that was being waged in the oblast. Part of the reason for the Russian entry into Ukraine was to defend them from the Keiv Nazis who took control of Ukraine after the Maidan coup of Feb. 2014. Of course, there would be some bad apples among them.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 0:23 utc | 219

@ They Call Me Mister | Dec 17 2024 23:51 utc | 213
There wouldn’t have been a Ukraine war in 2022 and a Syria downfall in 2024 without preparation for those events continuing beyond Obama’s term and throughout Trump’s term. Indeed, Trump brags about arming Ukraine and brags about occupying Syria to take their oil.
I’m reading the cast correctly.

Posted by: I forgot | Dec 18 2024 0:24 utc | 220

I think the reacting by Russia would be easy. Do an “Ooops !”
They use intelligence – including helpful folks with cellphones in Ukraine – to determine immediate locations of major Ukrainian leaders. Then, hit fast and hard with missiles. Afterwards, claim that it was an accident because they were trying to hit foreign mercenaries and they didn’t know who was there for a visit.
The US did something like this to Yamamoto and FDR faked the whole thing. Easy-Peazy.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 18 2024 0:25 utc | 221

The Perps are well known. There is now NO reason for any more Delay. There is now NO EXCUSE for Denial. It is clearly now imperative to implement DEPOSE. With EXTREME Prejudice!
☠️
Posted by: skull 💀 | Dec 18 2024 0:21 utc | 225
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Spooky, I am glad you are not my neighbor.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 0:26 utc | 222

As a wartime condition testing of the Orechnik, why not see how tight of a pattern you can get all 36 warheads to the exact center of the Ukie Ministry of Defence complex?
Get a note to your spies to call in sick that day.

Posted by: comrade simba | Dec 18 2024 0:32 utc | 223

The Nuclear War Now faction is out! Leave that to the metal label. Apart from the blatant PRINOs (pro-Russian in name only, you know who they are), some tit-for-tatters. Sigh. My thanks to everyone else who keeps up the information rate in this forum!

Posted by: Pnyx | Dec 17 2024 20:15 utc | 110
It is too late. The Western determination to take the path of escalation is too strong. The clearer it becomes that the capitalist system can no longer find its way out of the impasse in which it has been stuck for over a decade, the greater the motivation to try to achieve a capitalist reset with a war between great powers.

I agree that capitalism urgently needs a war, the bigger the better — as long as it stays conventional. These parameters are clear by now, I think: everyone and their mother telling EUropeans that “Russia is about to attack within five [sometimes: eight] years”. This is *not* a joke. Today we got this: Polish teenagers have weapon drills. It is how you poison the young.
A truly big war (between the great powers) leads to mutual extinction and therefore has to be avoided: no investment potential in the aftermath. What you want instead is massive conventional destruction. The more Dresden 1945, the better!
And this is why I think the most likely outcome is an inner-European war. Not against Russia: this is unwinnable and nobody wants to fight it. Instead, the teenagers of today in Poland, France, Germany etc. will, in a few years, live in more desolate places with near totalitarian society systems (we’re working on it!) that are armed to the teeth: as an example, Poland is already overextending itself on military spending and Rutte’s/NATO’s demands know no bounds. That’s the perfect catalyst for a nice, classical war in the heart of EUrope. Think of the investment potential afterwards! And the winner even gets some spoils.
I don’t say it has to come like this but it’s the most probable outcome I can see right now. It fits with how I perceive US and EU leadership too.

Posted by: Konami | Dec 18 2024 0:34 utc | 224

@ LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 22:17 utc | 159
re: Never forget that America legally has a “One China” policy while it keeps selling weapons to Taiwan and speaking about defending Taiwan from China.
That one china would be the People’s Republic of China, in Beijing. To add to your comment, in Taipei officially they call themselves the Republic of China. So the de facto claim is two Chinas which the UN has said is wrong (of course).
Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 18 2024 0:03 utc | 219
CLEARLY SPELLED OUT AMERICAN POLICY:
s121, clause (c), part ix.
“Nothing contained within this entire agreement shall be construed as meaning that we will keep our word on what is contained herein. Each and every section shall be defined as (our) rules based agreement, which may be changed to mean anything we want, at any time, for any reason.”

Posted by: kupkee | Dec 18 2024 0:38 utc | 225

…because it’s existential. The West knows this. They need a big war, but they don’t need a hypersonic nuke up their ass.
Posted by: A rope leash | Dec 18 2024 0:20 utc | 224
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The US needs a “big war” to reset its economy. It is so deep in debt that the economy will collapse on its own anyway. A reset can make the collapse easier for the ruling class by granting emergency debt forgiveness to the right people via government dictate. Nuclear annihilation is not in the cards: these are very selfish people, after all.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 0:39 utc | 226

Putin is a person who knows history. He knows he risks going down in history like Hitler. Almost no one knows/remembers that Britain bombed Berlin before the Blitz on London (a retaliation for bombing Berlin) commenced. Almost everyone knows about the Blitz. By bombing London, the German focus on British military installations such as radar sites was changed. It also destroyed the peace movement in Britain. Putin is, no doubt, well aware of the risks to his and Russia’s place in history if he attacks outside of The Ukraine. That is why there continues to be provocations. It is hoped to push him to react (act) like he did in 2022. He and Russia can then be cast as the new villans of history. Consequently, Putin tries his hardest to stay legal, but he cannot afford to make a (another?) ‘mistake’.

Posted by: Phillip | Dec 18 2024 0:40 utc | 227

Posted by: I forgot | Dec 18 2024 0:24 utc | 227
##########
🤫🤫🤫
Trump is the American President of Peace. You’re not allowed to talk about the sanctions (Russia, China, Syria, etc.), assassination, theft, or arming of Nazis who killed and raped Russians in the Donbass!
Everything Trump does is brilliant and noble and of course, PERFECT!

🙄🙄🙄

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 18 2024 0:42 utc | 228

alek_a | Dec 17 2024 22:41 utc | 171–
Clearly the secret resides in materials science that Russia is now a master of. IMO, much is being learned in relation to working with the tokamak fusion reactors. It’s not just the magnets but the materials that must be capable of withstanding sun-level temps. And the plasma generated by hypersonic flight through the atmosphere comes close to that temp. Given that Russia had hypersonic missiles in 2004, they’ve had 20 years to work with the related physics. Avangard was operational in 2018. Russia clearly continues to learn and advance their abilities. The Chinese have their own tokamaks, so their level of physics is likely close to being similarly advanced. But apparently, just having a tokamak experiment doesn’t automatically mean that nation has also mastered hypersonic flight as the Euroamericans have proven by their inability to produce a working missile.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2024 0:46 utc | 229

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 18 2024 0:42 utc | 235
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Thank you, Donbass. That should put Trump in perspective for the Trump lovers. I am glad that we agree on this subject, at least. In time, Trump will show his true colors, and I expect them to be yellow, though I really hope I am wrong.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 0:50 utc | 230

i know i know i know, but …
LOL at Iran going from we will breaking Israel’s teeth just a few weeks ago, we promise, to what we got today: “We hope that the Palestinian fighters and Hezbollah will witness the day when the malicious Zionist enemy is crushed under their feet, God willing.” from the “supreme leader” (Iran is so cucked)
Is Russia behaving so differently? Russian Defense Minister Andrey Belousov said today that Russia must be prepared for any development of events, including a possible military conflict with NATO in Europe in the next decade – he says this as if Putin has not already stated that NATO is at war with Russia (one expects conflict to follow, right?, Unless of course Russia simply concedes)
Anyone see how the European’ss support for Turkey/alQaeada/SNA against the US-backed FSA/SDF/Kurds as perhaps pressure on Trump not to abandon Ukraine? Or am i still crazy!

Posted by: Keith | Dec 18 2024 0:50 utc | 231

How much is what it seems. They had the chance to destroy the terrorists in Idlib with the momentum of the Syrian army. They let Israel continuously bomb syria. No, I wouldn’t be surprised if they let the west in.

Posted by: natrat | Dec 18 2024 0:52 utc | 232

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 0:23 utc | 226
‘About 1,227,555 Russian-speaking Ukrainians fled to Russia to escape the war that was being waged in the oblast.’
Quoting a figure of 1,227,555 and preceding it with the word ‘about’ is silly.

Posted by: Siddhartha | Dec 18 2024 0:54 utc | 233

Maybe Russia should start assassinating American Healthcare CEOs.
Posted by: Ook | Dec 17 2024 23:34 utc | 205
________________________________________________________________
Only if they then brag about it.

Posted by: Keith | Dec 18 2024 0:55 utc | 234

Alleged Chemical Provocation Exposed By Murdered Russian General: The Main Cause
https://www.rt.com/russia/609490-general-kirillov-investigates-recap/
“Igor Kirrilov spent years investigating incidents involving chemical and biological weapons.”
Biological Warfare Department
https://www.rt.com/shows/documentary/580173-asya-zuan-usa-bioweapon/
“The alarming truth about the Pentagon’s secret worldwide bio-lab network.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 18 2024 0:57 utc | 235

How much is what it seems. They had the chance to destroy the terrorists in Idlib with the momentum of the Syrian army. They let Israel continuously bomb syria. No, I wouldn’t be surprised if they let the west in.
Posted by: natrat | Dec 18 2024 0:52 utc | 239
____________________________________________________
As if i wasnt depressed enough already, natrat makes me feel suicidal!
I wouldnt be surprised either.

Posted by: Keith | Dec 18 2024 0:58 utc | 236

‘About 1,227,555 Russian-speaking Ukrainians fled to Russia to escape the war that was being waged in the oblast.’
Quoting a figure of 1,227,555 and preceding it with the word ‘about’ is silly.
Posted by: Siddhartha | Dec 18 2024 0:54 utc | 240
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You are correct, Siddhartha. My apologies for failing to provide a source. Actually, I thought the source was low. I think more Ukrainians fled to Russia, but I had no other sources available at my fingertips.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1312584/ukrainian-refugees-by-country/

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 1:04 utc | 237

Biological Warfare Department (doc)
https://rtd.rt.com/films/biological-warfare-department/
Full film

Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 18 2024 1:05 utc | 238

“Russian restraint is preventing World War III. …”
Posted by: A rope leash | Dec 18 2024 0:20 utc | 224
_____________________________________________________
It’s merely delaying the inevitable
The issue is whether this is best policy or not – and that is something that will be argued about for eternity.
Unless of course Russia and China concede (Iran already has), and then the only hope to stop the evil empire is catastrophic climate change.

Posted by: Keith | Dec 18 2024 1:07 utc | 239

Maybe Russia should start assassinating American Healthcare CEOs.
Posted by: Ook | Dec 17 2024 23:34 utc | 205
________________________________________________________________
Only if they then brag about it.
Posted by: Keith | Dec 18 2024 0:55 utc | 241
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Be careful; such comments can get you 19 years in the US.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 1:08 utc | 240

There is some confusion and conflatiin circulating on this point.
– Putin said he did/would pre-warn IN THE CONTEXT of civilians evacuating for humanitarian reasons, ie Ukie factories. This might or might not be done for purely military bases or command centres, including Bankova.
Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 17 2024 23:53 utc | 214

It is not working like that. Russia does not target civilians. People working to build weapons, drones, ammunitions in Ukie factories are no civilians. The first strike was without warning. With a warning the soldiers will be able to evacuate. Sorry, but it is stupid.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 18 2024 1:09 utc | 241

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2024 0:46 utc | 236
What about Burevestnik and Poseidon?
Are they ready to be displayed?

Posted by: Naive | Dec 18 2024 1:15 utc | 242

@215 Philly
Thank you kindly for reading my comment and let me try to relieve the confusion.

The MO in the west is to try to steer Russia towards symmetrical escalation. Assassinations and terrorizing civilians is not something the Russians should also do in response to the empire’s like-actions.

The analogy of the evil twin is gathered from the thinking of Rene Girard in studying great works of literature, mythology, and the Bible.
Basically, the western powers preside over a crumbling liberal order.
By refusing to engage the shenanigans the west continues to perpetrate and by staying the course of sieging the Ukrainians into submission (the patient way), Russia is keeping its eyes on the prize and this way it retains its right to do what is in its interest.
The empire’s attacks are designed to engender a response from Russia that would be in the empire’s interest.
IOW, the west is out on the town with its ugly girlfriend, trying to pick a fight with a dude who isn’t interested in the west’s girl.
“What, my girl ain’t good enough for you? What, you too good or something, you snobby mutha-?!?”

(A few unbearable moments later) “HAVE SEX WITH MY GIRLFRIEND!”

You see, the western identity is predicated on the belief that what is presides over is desirable. If Russia looks the other way and is not interested in its treasure, if it seeks another way, the rippling effects cut straight to the self-worth of TPTB.
Russia refuses to be the “evil twin.”

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 18 2024 1:16 utc | 243

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 0:50 utc | 237
#############
I don’t hate Trump. There are people who make sacrifices every day to change the world. Few of them are politicians.
Part of me admires Trump’s absolute self-belief. I don’t have that much confidence to think I could run and become President of a country, even a small one.
That said, if someone is marketed as a peacemaker but ruins thousands of people’s lives for a colonial system of oppression and misery, I do feel compelled to call it out.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 18 2024 1:16 utc | 244

Okay Bar, Putin-the-wise shills won’t like this (and NAFO trolls should p*ss off):

  • Another day, another drone attack. How much blah-blah that a war of attrition is decided on the ground will we hear this time?
  • Western missiles hit Taganrog, but “no significant damage”. How many Ukrainian forced recruits will be killed in retaliation this time, instead of targeting NATO supply routes?
  • Lt Gen Kirillov who exposed western biolabs in Ukraine — murdered by an act of terrorism in Moscow, along with his aide. 33 days before Trump is inaugurated. How many rural substations will be finished in retaliation this time while having Medvedev post empty threats on Telegram, instead of NATO generals being liquidated?

I’ve been supporting Russia ever-since Putin came to power. But as Putin and this freezing SMO ages it increasingly becomes difficult, seeing that almost nothing is to be seen and that western propagandists increasingly come vindicated, quietly ignoring my “achievement” bullet points below.

While the unbending Putin fanbois would always explain this away with some 5d chess, some Sun Tsu master moves up the blown pipeline, or a simple lack of understanding of the glorious way Russia fights its victorious wars of attrition—especially now that the war has “reached a decisive turning point” according to VVP himself, just wait for the day that never comes!—the West successfully jolts Russia, while things on the ground remain bleak.

  • Pokrovsk? Oh, these fortifications!! Just wait, there are no fortifications no more once we just reach Pokrovsk (which we’ve been working so hard for the last 3 months)!
  • Odessa? Oh, while all of NATO struggles to recruit 10k new soldiers each month, Russia recruits 1000 per day now for more than a year. It takes so much time to properly train them!
  • Take Kiev from the north? Oh, the time has not just yet come!
  • Slavyansk still needs another eternity to be liberated! Again!
  • Tonight, there are Swans up in the air! Wait for it!! Oh, just a drill. A direct message to USUK!
  • Kiev’s Kursk safari still not over yet? Oh wait, it will be finished by Christmas, no New Year, no VVP’s birthday, no but Victory Day for sure! Putin whisperer from behind: Russia does not need time frames!1
  • Naval and Air Force Bases in Syria? Russia must out, else no sanctions relief.
  • Russia’s even short on saline solution, a hospital commodity! The sanctions do work!!

Those who sincerely believe Russia will win this by keeping up this slow-motion strategy of “steamrolling” at 100 yards a day, just not to make NATO’s daily squeal level any louder than it already is, just answer me one question:

Will a decisive 2-week big arrow movement with 100k of ours dead be more deadly than a 2-year slow-motion grind with 100k of ours dead?

If the answer is “the same”, wouldn’t it be much more effective (message-wise, facts-on-the-ground-wise, resource-wise, domestic-support-wise, Globalsouth-support-wise) to hit the Kiev regime with a decisive blow—instead of continuously pretending:

  • …to fight for the people in the occupied areas?
  • …to protect soldiers and equipment?
  • …to conduct an existential war? By not hurting NATO’s feelings too hard?

?

Russia already achieved:

  • …demonstrating the west’s inability to replenish its ammo stockpile
  • …demonstrating the west’s inability of wartime production
  • …demonstrating the west’s inability of mass recruitment
  • …increasing the west’s costs for propping up the Kiev regime
  • …but a stalemate on the ground at best (and too many unnecessarily killed top people)

So, what is Putin waiting for? The return of sanity to Berlin? EU’s collapse? NATO’s dissolution by an Executive Order of Orange Man? Some phony deal with him? The second coming of Marshal Zhukov? Or his own overthrow by a fed-up-to-the-bone Stavka?
The overall optics for Russia are not good, the Kiev regime still yields some weekly media victory here and there, young Russians only want peace / the war / the sanctions to end—and we are not an inch closer to victory than we were in the spring of 2022, and no solution is in sight.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 18 2024 1:17 utc | 245

Be careful; such comments can get you 19 years in the US.
Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 1:08 utc | 247
____________________________________________________
probably at least warrant an arrest here in the uk
i was wondering today whether i could get in trouble for wishing some uk politicians and civil servants recieve a severe beating, being beaten to within an inch of their lives, like they deserve.
Never mind expressing how i think Russia should nuke the uk first, making the BBC the epicentre

Posted by: Keith | Dec 18 2024 1:26 utc | 246

@Nervous German:
putin is demilitarizing ukraine… so until either the weapons are used up, or ukraine runs out of men (and maybe women) to fight, whichever comes first.
And putin is still in kremlin and loved by most of the russians.
In the meantime… britain is fucked, macron is hanging by a last straw, scholz is gone and the US dems couldn’t even fake an election at home anymore.

Posted by: Milivoje | Dec 18 2024 1:27 utc | 247

Russian forces eliminated … forces shot down one U.S.-made HIMARS MLRS projectile over the past day.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 20:43 utc | 123
None of this matters.
The West has an endless supply of willing cannon fodder to throw at Russia for decades to come.
If you must kill, kill those who matter.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 18 2024 1:34 utc | 248

The overall optics for Russia are not good, the Kiev regime still yields some weekly media victory here and there, young Russians only want peace / the war / the sanctions to end—and we are not an inch closer to victory than we were in the spring of 2022, and no solution is in sight.
Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 18 2024 1:17 utc | 252
############
When this is over, there will be a lot of cope narratives in the West while Putin will be welcoming millions of people to the Federation, ameliorating some of Russia’s demographic issues.
Like the belief that America won WW2 and defeated ISIS, in both cases it was Russia who actually did the work and accomplished the goal.
Optics are a Western obsession, like transgenderism.
All that matters is victory.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 18 2024 1:34 utc | 249

@Ed
since February 2022 as per 12/31/23 – 1,227,555
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1312584/ukrainian-refugees-by-country/

Posted by: wp007 | Dec 18 2024 1:35 utc | 250

Posted by: Keith | Dec 18 2024 0:50 utc | 238
Is Russia behaving so differently? Russian Defense Minister Andrey Belousov said today that Russia must be prepared for any development of events, including a possible military conflict with NATO in Europe in the next decade – he says this as if Putin has not already stated that NATO is at war with Russia (one expects conflict to follow, right?, Unless of course Russia simply concedes)
Anyone see how the European’ss support for Turkey/alQaeada/SNA against the US-backed FSA/SDF/Kurds as perhaps pressure on Trump not to abandon Ukraine? Or am i still crazy!
Russia and Syria
I posted this earlier on the Ukraine thread, but it seems somewhat relevant to the posts by Keith, and others here. Apologies if its too OT.
While being shocked (to a degree) by the recent collapse of Syria, the surprise factor is absent. For several years now Syria and RF made no serious response-neither with military action or diplomacy- to counter the obvious consolidation of HTS in Idlib, or counter the frequent Zionist air strikes (missile) into Syria. This inaction was clearly a result of zero motivation on the part of the Syrian PTB, and zero desire (for myriad and complex reasons) of RF to miff the Zionists.
So far as RF is concerned it may appear a “great strategic setback” in respect of their naval or air base on the coast, but the lack of any meaningful action by Russia in Syria over the last few years is quite possibly due to the RF accepting the inevitable, and opting to acquiesce to Türkiye taking control over (at least) northern Syria. I would not be surprised to see an orderly hand-over of these bases from RF to Ankara in the near future with concomitant withdrawal of naval and air assets back to Russia. This would likely piss-off some NATO members and Israel, but given that the two bases have absolutely zero strategic value to RF at present, gifting the infrastructure to Türkiye seems a sensible course of action.
Things are very fluid in the whole western Asia region at present but I suspect that Ukraine and the arctic regions are the main preoccupation of the RF, and that it will deal wih the ME developments as they occur. I will not hazard any guesses as to what Iran might do, but think that Türkiye, Iraq and Iran may co0perate on curtailing the overall western influence via the Kurds.
Likewise, I despair for Lebanon, but again Türkiye might be a future player here, and I note that the social initiatives of HTS in Idlib seem to be modelled on those developed by Hezbollah in Lebanon, although the underlying ideologies may be very different.
I would point out the very obvious historical fact that for hundreds of years prior to WW1 all the provinces of Syria, Iraq and Palestine etc were relatively peaceful under Ottoman hegemony. The colonial meddling of the UK and France after 1916 is primarily responsible for the current discord in the region, of which the Zionist entity seems to be the primary beneficiary. To be clear, I am not advocating for a re-establishment of Ottoman rule over the region, but some order to the present situation should be established and it seems hat Türkiye is presently best placed to oversee this.

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Dec 18 2024 1:37 utc | 251

Re: what will russia do about the assination?
Probably not much like other terrorist attacks. There’s no decision making center in Ukraine and there’s no striking the west without ironclad proof, preferably found in Kiev after it’s occupation.
Their best bet is to use spy stuff back, and there’s hints that happens all the time. We probably won’t know what is happening for what, but Russia is keeping track.
Russia is hurting them somehow the sanctions keep piling up to ridiculous levels. They wouldn’t do that unless they were trying to defend themselves.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 18 2024 1:38 utc | 252

Posted by: Ed | Dec 18 2024 1:04 utc | 244
No need to apologise. Thanks for the source.
The summary stated that over 1.2 million refugees from Ukraine were recorded in Russia as of the end of 2023. Furthermore, ‘In total around six million Ukrainian refugees were registered across Europe and 6.6 million worldwide as of July 2024’.

Posted by: Siddhartha | Dec 18 2024 1:39 utc | 253

Posted by: Milivoje | Dec 18 2024 1:27 utc | 254
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 18 2024 1:34 utc | 256
Thanks, I appreciate your response.
> All that matters is victory.
Absolutely!

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 18 2024 1:41 utc | 254

@Naive
…. Russia does not target civilians …
Ukraine makes every Ukrainian death into a propaganda campaign, but I haven’t read a single Ukrainian report about a death in the last few months, just a few injuries from falling debris or broken glass. This makes me suspect that Russia really does not target civilians, and that it only happens occasionally that someone is wounded or killed as “collateral damage”.
The reverse cannot be said. There are several credible reports of dead civilians, e.g. in buses on Russian territory.
This is like the drone that hit the IAEA inspector outside the nuclear power plant, where Ukraine claims it was a Russian drone, which sounds highly illogical to me, since the nuclear power plant is under Russian control.

Posted by: wp007 | Dec 18 2024 1:47 utc | 255

This was partisan activity. Russia is well acquainted with it. Nobody daughter died this time. No civilians died. No war crime. This war will go on a long time. Russia will experience partisan activity. Russia would not hesitate to implement partisan activity on AFU personnel if they felt it worked toward goals. This is just part of war. The war will continue even after AFU lines collapse. It will continue out of Moldova if it has to with command out of a Miami beachfront high rise. Russia will continue. Afu will eventually largly be destroyed. Russia will create a security zone. attacks will still come out of western Ukraine. Russian casualties will be much less. Ukraine can not ne made secure, Libya can not be made secure. Iraq can not be made secure. Failed states can not be made secure. Russia will experience attacks for a long time. But Russia will not become a failed state. Once a failed state has happened it does not go back to before now. It remains a failed state. That is what will happen to Ukraine just like all the others. Russia will have to deal with a failed state on its borders and the security risk that is a extremist failed state. Russia will not have to live next too a nuclear armed extremist state. Russia will not become a failed state.Russia will not start WW3.
This will be a long slow grinding process. Bit by bit Ukraine will become a failed state, The reactors will go cold one by one.. The people will eke out a existence. Just like Afghanistan. Just like Libya. Just like Syria.
If the west wanted war they would sink the Russian oil tankers. Ukraine could sink every Russian tanker leaving the black sea if they wanted. If Russia wanted WW3 they would hit NATO with their missiles. No one wants WW3.
war destroys a area for human habitation. That will continue. Ukraine was developed as a weapon against Russia. It still has lots of value as a weapon against Russia as a failed state. There is no reason to discard Ukraine as a weapon against Russia it just wont have near the destructive power as before. Ukraine has value as a weapon against Russia just by its existence as a failed state security threat.
Russia can not occupy all Ukraine.
Russia can create a security buffer zone.
Russia can eventually destroy all AFU equipment perhaps quickly in the end Like Israel is doing in Syria.
The Ukraine of before is gone. Ukraine only exists as a function of a mercenary state. If the mercenary state ceases Ukraine does not go back to before.
To go back to before Ukraine would have to renounce the mercenary state formed in 2014. It would have to declare neutrality. It would have to agree to a military limited in scope. None of that can or will happen.
Has Iraq gone back to before? no
Has Libya gone back to before? no
Has Syria gone back to before? no
Nor will Russia go to back to before. Nor will the USA. No they are not destroyed but they are fundamentally changed.
Modern war destroys nations. The idea that it is a temporary state and then abundance returns is hogwash. ITS HOGWASH NO MATTER WHO WINS.
All Russia can do is try to make sure that doesnt happen to them. I think they are doing a damn good job. No stupid moves. All the people here fantasizing about Russia attacking NATO disrespect Russia. RUSSIA IS DOING A DAMN GOOD JOB. They are handling it. As the task changes how they handle it changes. Perfect? Is anything perfect? They are looking after their peoples interest. They are looking after the people of the worlds interest. This thing will go on for years . Every day Russia will handle it. Sometimes better sometimes worse but always with insight tenacity and skill. Russia is still there. Thats winning. They will still be there in a hundred years. If they are not no one else will be either.

Posted by: Fred | Dec 18 2024 1:57 utc | 256

@Nervous German
So, what is Putin waiting for?
read the front reports. all Ukrainian units (except one) are surrounded and have the choice of surrendering or dying slowly one after the other. So there is no reason to force things.
When the encirclements are broken (one was eliminated today) then further advances will take place. The land is mostly flat tundra, so enemies are easy to spot.
It is not going as quickly as hoped, which is also because all Ukrainians, no matter how desperate their situation, have orders to hold out. Nevertheless: whoever can flee, flees. The situation for Ukraine is therefore getting steadily worse, just without a big bang for the fans on the sofa.

Posted by: wp007 | Dec 18 2024 1:59 utc | 257

Posted by: wp007 | Dec 18 2024 1:59 utc | 264
Thanks for concisely summing up the front developments, much of which I’ve dismissed as “ah, nothing” over the past weeks, while in fact it was something.
Now with “all Ukrainian units (except one) are surrounded” VVP’s remark about the SMO reaching a decisive point all makes sense.
> without a big bang for the fans on the sofa.
True! Westerners apparently expect a Hiroshima/Nagasaki-style big bang.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 18 2024 2:07 utc | 258

@ Fred | Dec 18 2024 1:57 utc | 263
good post fred.. thanks… i think in the meantime, if BRICS continues to gain traction, while the usa and it’s coterie continue to unravel economically, it will be a very different world in 10 years time.. the fact is a failing empire is more prone to lashing out which is what we see the usa nation doing towards it’s own apparent friends – germany and nordstream being but one fine example of what i am referring to here..

Posted by: james | Dec 18 2024 2:07 utc | 259

SMO gives cover for nato to do what they want inside Russia. Ukraine is expendable. One day they will realise like Chechens or Georgians
Agree with exile @ 105
Yes de dollarisation is the only way to end this round. It is the most powerful nato weapon in the arsenal. Empires at their end are most dangerous

Posted by: Michael J | Dec 18 2024 2:10 utc | 260

I think you are rewriting Russia’s warnings here english.
The issue is targeting Russian facilities in Russian territory by Nato operational forces using Nato made and supplied missiles, no matter from where they are fired from, warrants and justifies are a mirror response of an attack on Nato forces in Nato territory if need be. Nato embassies in Ukraine or missile batteries located in Poland, or even Alaska and Texas and Germany come into play. The US specifically deploying ATACTAM strikes seems to be ignoring these warnings.
Posted by: Philly | Dec 18 2024 0:11 utc | 222
Nope. Disagree. You’ve over-stretched scenarios. You’re confusing TWO scenarios.
1, Have either of us actually read the exact text of the Duma’s recent nuclear doctrine? 😉 Perhaps Karlof can arbitrate!
2, “Existential threat”, with retaliatory nuke strike from any conventional strikes on RF mainland, involved only the written nuclear doctrine.
2, So Oreshnik, being conventional, is outside any framework. Conventional tit for tat, anywhere, by anyone, is Kremlin discriminatory — dependent both on target hit, missile used, origin, ISR sponsor.
3, My memory of Putin’s statements about mainland RF strikes and retaliation was, as usual, threatening but ambiguous. Yushmash was a warning, to be sure. But was a local retaliation. But to be sure, any shots into EU is a redline that Putin is loathe to enact (yet).
4, Besides, how legally justifiable (yes Putin’s nature) is a Kinzhal or Oreshnik strike into the EU for a US-made-and-donated ATACAMS; from say a Polish-donated HIMARS rig; with US/NATO ISR; but located in Dnipro on an AFU truck; according to Zelensky’s PR desires. Like a UK storm shadow; launched from a Dutch F16; sent to Kurch Bridge; from a Lvov airbase. Who to hit back??? This is the very grey area Russia faces with each attack. Appropriate retaliation is never as black and white as the couch colonels here make out.
And ultimately, Putin’s words in October may not exactly match his actions in December. That’s HIS PEROGATIVE … not ours to call.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 18 2024 2:20 utc | 261

Ukraine makes every Ukrainian death into a propaganda campaign, but I haven’t read a single Ukrainian report about a death in the last few months, just a few injuries from falling debris or broken glass. This makes me suspect that Russia really does not target civilians, and that it only happens occasionally that someone is wounded or killed as “collateral damage”.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 18 2024 1:47 utc | 262
Afaik several Ukrainian civilian deaths are caused by defensive ukie missiles missing their target and falling on civilian buildings.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 18 2024 2:21 utc | 262

B – The question for Russia is now how to react to it. Should it hit back with its whole might and destroy the ‘decision making centers’ in Kiev who are responsible for this incident? (Note: An accurate definition of ‘decision centers’ would include the embassies of the U.S. and Great Britain in Kiev.)
Or should it hold back and hope that negotiations about Ukraine with Donald Trump will actually achieve some positive, if temporary, results?
IMO, hit back with whole might, and destroy decision making centers in Kiev. The west cabal is at war with Russia. Accept it. The provocations will get worse and worse. Russia runs the risk of losing ground as NATO builds strength at bases. Also, if you think Trump will save the day, forget it. A NATO attack / invasion of Russia IS inevitable. They already started with Kursk. Russia, You. Are. At. War. Make the real enemy fear you enough so they stop with the bullshit before its too late.

Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Dec 18 2024 2:23 utc | 263

*** Surely you’re not opposed to hazelnut on the SBU.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 17 2024 19:28 utc | 90
Nobody here is, and don’t call me Shirley
Posted by: frithguild | Dec 17 2024 19:57 utc | 100
Lol!

Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Dec 18 2024 2:26 utc | 264

Would not surprise if this (and others similar) was a case of Octomen’s Razor, ie the simplest explanation- which is the Russians themselves did it. Could be any number of reasons why; not loyal enough, nothing what was asked despite several warnings, was taking bribes, passing information to the West, etc.
Seem to recall a year or more ago another person was target for death but they got his daughter instead – wouldn’t that more send a message to fly right than the Uks actually doing it. It’s war so it is expected the Uks will try to do – that would not embolden Russians even more. But if Russia is doing it to their own on the down low (at least to those that know how things work know who is really doing it ) then it serves both masters – makes average Russians mad but also keeps those straddling the fence to get back on the right side.
Just a thought…

Posted by: drsmith | Dec 18 2024 2:32 utc | 265

@Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh
” (Note: An accurate definition of ‘decision centers’…)” that quoting is incorrect.
Dmitri Medwedew wrote “All attempts to intimidate our people, stop the advance of the Russian army and instill fear are doomed to failure. There is inevitable retribution for the Banderite Nazis, including the top leadership of the disappearing country.”

Posted by: wp007 | Dec 18 2024 2:33 utc | 266

It is not working like that. Russia does not target civilians. People working to build weapons, drones, ammunitions in Ukie factories are no civilians. The first strike was without warning. With a warning the soldiers will be able to evacuate. Sorry, but it is stupid.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 18 2024 1:09 utc | 248
You misread me.
I said “Putin said we will inform civilians…” That’s just PR!
That does not mean the real reason.
Of course I know that Yushmash were UA Defence Dept Staff, and who knows what else. 8 mins is no time for anyone to get up to ground level. So, therefore, imo, the real reason was to tell the US ISR to “monitor and watch this new thing we have you cannot stop”.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 18 2024 2:41 utc | 267

“By starting the Special Military Operation in Ukraine Russia had actually fallen for the provocation RAND had planned for it. For Russia there was, at that moment, no alternative.”
IMO this statement contains an obvious internal contradiction.
“fallen for” does not compute with “there was no alternative.”
Russia must figure out how to avoid these HObson’s choices confected by the USA/UK/NATO.
It must go on the offensive and figure out how to create such Hobson’s choices for the USA/UK/NATO instead of always being in reaction mode.
Russia needs to figure out exactly what it wants in terms of denazification and demilitarization and then go for it.
Take the initiative.
No lurking about trying to figure out what Trump will “allow.”
Create the facts on the ground that Trump will have to deal with.
Waiting is now definitely a chump’s game.
Waiting for Trump = Waiting for Godot.
Make Trump run around the court to try to return serves.
Putin is being far too nice.
And his apparent deference to the Zionists in both the ME and the Ukraine is costing him bigtime among his admirers and well-wishers in the West.

Posted by: Jane | Dec 18 2024 3:08 utc | 268

Why kill Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov now?
Posted by: Keme | Dec 17 2024 16:41 utc | 7
Terrorist acts like these are set in motion long in advance. Once set up, it becomes a use-it-or-lose-it situation. There are surely multiple terrorist operations in the works, a phase that we have been in a for a while, with acts such as the killing of Dugin’s daughter in August 2022 and the drones over the Kremlin in May 2023.
anyway, assassination as a matter of state policy is only something the US and Israel do. we can theorize as to ‘why’ and the goals aimed at, but it is I think more institutional inertia instead of any deep strategic thinking. We know this because the overall strategy in the Ukraine proxy war has been a disaster, not just for losing on the battlefield, but for unifying and mobilizing Russia in a way never possible before, and most of all for forging the partnership between Russia and China together. The ‘strategic thinking’ here has been nothing but stupid. Asking why stupid does stupid is a fruitless endeavor.

Posted by: Mastameta | Dec 18 2024 3:11 utc | 269

The US is agreement INCAPABLE.
ANYTHING LESS THAN what Russia insists upon, will only put off the inevitable in that, as far as THE US is concerned, will only lead to more US provocations.
Trump is in bed with the very Zionists and their billionaire Corporate owners (Black Rock, Shell, etc), that want the 14.8 TRILLION worth of lithium and other precious metals in the Donbas ALONE. Rumors abound about what Trump will offer: peacekeepers and a buffer zone and no NATO ascension for Ukraine for 20 years. That will be a non starter for Putin.
All one need do is look at what the US/Israhell did in the Middle East to dismantle the Resistance and Russia now has to worry about jihadis relatively close to home in Syria. The thing about psychopaths is that they are always one step ahead.. until you figure out their game, then they become utterly predictable.
The ONLY thing the US understands is FORCE.
I hope Putin isn’t stupid enough to trust the US again, EVER.
“No, they insist, there must be either a genuine, definitive, binding settlement that ensures a lasting peace based on mutual security, or Russian forces will press on until their objectives – notably “demilitarization and denazification” of Ukraine – are achieved militarily. Such an outcome would mean at least replacement of the current regime in Kiev and, more likely, the end of Ukraine’s statehood.”
And THAT is exactly what must happen. Waiting on Trump is a fool’s errand

Posted by: Kay | Dec 18 2024 3:24 utc | 270

I think Russia should respond in the same manner as the last event. With a massive missile strike on Ukraine’s electricity, oil depots, gas storage and train infrastructure.
It hastens the collapse of Ukraine, encourages refugees, and reduces Zelinsky’s popularity.

Posted by: bingo | Dec 18 2024 3:28 utc | 271

@Norwegian:
Oh, for God’s sake! Ohhhhhh, so scary! I’m sure the US Zionazis are shaking in their boots now! Has Russia and the rest of the UN toadies figured out that the UN matters not at all and that the US thumbs it’s nose at International law?
How embarrassing for Russia. Meanwhile the US laughs at what they get away with.
“We will definitely raise the issue of the terrorist attack against Igor Kirillov at a UN Security Council meeting that we requested for December 20 to discuss the supply of Western weapons to Ukraine and their impact on the prospects for a peaceful settlement of the Ukraine crisis,” Polyanskiy wrote on Telegram. “Those responsible for this crime must be brought to justice and face the unequivocal condemnation of the entire international community.”
Oh brother….

Posted by: Kay | Dec 18 2024 3:42 utc | 272

You are completely wrong. This is a criminal act and will be treated as such, nothing more. Stop with the retaliation rubbish. Russia is not some Mafia gang doing tit for tat hits. That is childish crap. This will not affect the course of the smo at all. Btw, taking Kiev or western Ukraine is a loser all around, which is why Russia never intended to do so and will not now. Trump doesn’t give a rats ass about Ukraine, so incidents like this give him the out he needs to cut that disaster lose. Because face it, Russia can keep pounding them indefinitely… their arm isn’t even tired.

Posted by: nook | Dec 18 2024 3:49 utc | 273

Posted by: Kay | Dec 18 2024 3:42 utc | 281
Yup. In another universe going to UN stopped the genocide in Gaza and prevented the fall of Syria.
Good to see many diehard Pootin fanbois are waking up to see their 10D grandchessmaster is actually a snakeoil salesman.
Fall of Syria is 100% on him.

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 18 2024 3:50 utc | 274

I don’t understand many of the comments here. This is not a ‘gaslight’ or a ‘Charlie Brown’ situation. This was terrorism at its most foul. We saw it with the assassination of the highly respected Russian philosopher’s brilliant daughter, and now this. My condolences to all the Russian people. You have lost a hero from your midst.
I think this is very serious indeed.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 18 2024 4:06 utc | 275

Posted by: nook | Dec 18 2024 3:49 utc | 282
############
Well said.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 18 2024 4:07 utc | 276

he made a deal with erdogan on idlib and eventually lost syria. he is waiting for trump to come in on january and he will make a deal with him on ukraine. he will lose what he gained. his red lines had become infra red and impossible to see.

Posted by: andreweed | Dec 18 2024 4:16 utc | 277

Expectations: Russia will not mount a specific “revenge” attack. Russia will continue the SMO as it has planned. As for attacking biowarfare labs, Oreshnik is the perfect tool since it incinerates all things in the target, which is what you want to do to biological agents. So, if Oreshnik is to be employed, it will be used on NATO’s remaining biolabs within Ukraine.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 17 2024 19:54 utc | 98
Thank you, karlof1. This important work began as we saw when the SMO began. I think I should quote Coleridge:
Slimey things did crawl upon the slimey seas.
Or maybe I misquote — doesn’t matter; it fits.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 18 2024 4:20 utc | 278

This isn’t about Ukraine. This is about that since WWII US elites decided that they needed a big, bad, permanent enemy to bleed enslaved US taxpayers to death. Globalist Truman decided it should be USSR, the US ally which gave 25 million lives and endured 900 days of virtual occupation by Hitler for the purpose of starving its residents to death. Then in 1990’s the usual US fat cats plundered and starved newly independent Russia, laughed about ripping off Yeltsin, and left the country for dead. Never did US imagine Russia could be brought back from death’s door as Mr. Putin has done. US had to double down on making Russia the big, bad enemy, if only to claim it’s just “too big,” in order to continue to bleed US taxpayers. US elites treat Russian officials like subhuman garbage, refuse to talk to them. If US is in a meeting and it’s Russia’s turn to speak, all the Americans in the room will stand up and leave the room. If Russia is so bad, why not let RT run on every tv in the US so people can see for themselves? Someone has to stop the US and free US taxpayers from enslavement to global genocide. Mr. Putin is humanity’s only hope. Somehow US taxpayers must be separated from the Pentagon.

Posted by: susan mullen | Dec 18 2024 4:45 utc | 279

@ Tom Pfotzer 17
@ xor 97
good summary of options for Russia and China by both Tom and xor.
The whole complex of Ukraine/Israel is a ‘di-pole’ (bipolar) – and it is supervised on the West by a capable, yet secret crew, with several locations. Sometime one or the other persona from those circles appears in public, such as this one
https://www.mei.edu/profile/melinda-haring
She may not be the original brain behind the ‘strategery’ of the West, but she is close to them. The bi-polar aspect was mentioned recently by Krainer in his talk with Nima Alkorshid. (sorry – don’t have a link at my fingertips)
The modus operandi of Ukraine/US is identical with Israeli – as seen by assassinations of Iranian military personnel (Gen Soleimani to name but one), by public terrorism (with pager and cell phones, and attacks on public gatherings), assassinating scientists, and intellectuals.
Alex Mercouris has a good comment today and he analyses the statement by Medvedev, which is very measured, and not blood-thirsty, as some people reflexively would want. He thinks that one of the motivations to murder General was to drive a wedge between Russian military brass and Putin. Mercouris thin
Sorry, if I am repeating others but, I did not have time to read all today.

Posted by: fanto | Dec 18 2024 4:46 utc | 280

my idea for Russian response would be to catch Z and Budanov alive, abduct them and make s show process a la Nuremberg with them speak into the TV camera the full truth who, when, what caused them to act like they acted.
This is a pipe dream, however. Unless there are some good tricks I do not know about.

Posted by: fanto | Dec 18 2024 4:58 utc | 281

juliania | Dec 18 2024 4:20 utc | 289–
Thanks for your reply. 34 more days of Biden, then 1,460 days of Trump–perhaps.
Russia’s #1 BRICS Sherpa Sergey Ryabkov is asked questions, “Ryabkov Gives TASS End of Year BRICS Assessment,” https://karlof1.substack.com/p/ryabkov-gives-tass-end-of-year-brics

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2024 5:18 utc | 282

Posted by: Philly | Dec 18 2024 4:06 utc | 285
I dunno why you took such offence, Philly. I was talking generally about strikes and retaliations of all kinds — well within the range of the Ukraine Thread.
And, I did not insinuate YOU PARTICULARLY were a couch colonel. I write:
“Appropriate retaliation is never as black and white as the couch colonels here make out”, was a generalist statement. I admit WE ALL ARE, the moment we say “Russia should this”, “Putin should that”. I try to avoid pontifications. But if the cap fits …
You have concurred with others in 284:
“A NATO attack / invasion of Russia IS inevitable;
“Putin is far too nice”;
“The end of Ukraine’s statehood is exactly what must happen”;
“This is the consensus view of a clear majority in MoA commenters that I keep seeing displayed here.”
Now they are definitive judgements way outside your paygrade. That’s the black and white mindset I mean. And I’m not sure that the consensus view in MoA is any kind of refuge for the truth!

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 18 2024 5:23 utc | 283

The Dmitri Orlov hypothesis is one potential key to gauging the upper end of the Oreshnik’s potential power. The very brief interval over which the energy was released is an interesting variable.
More prosaic, if only relatively, is an X discussion by Neutrino. When converting kinetic energy into TNT equivalents there is–
a) similarly a question of the rate of the energy dispersion, but also
b) that a chemical explosion disperses in 3 dimensions through an expanding roughly spherical volume; whereas each of 36 darts (75kg?) concentrates its kinetic energy release (.5m x v squared) primarily in 1 focussed dimension, aligned with the striking trajectory of a dart 7cm wide piercing w/ that kinetic energy then releasing the thermal energy in an initially focussed cylinder primarily ahead of and perpendicular to the path of the dart. The tungsten is vaporized, releasing the energy of a phase change, as does much of the target material, including any moisture in the material with also releases the energy of a phase change to vapor.
So: thermal expansion, kinetic penetration, rapid release, vaporization effects & this potentially massive instantaneous release of the Couloumb explosion essentially disaggregating the molecular/ atomic-lattice structure of the dart and target materials.

Posted by: Paul Damascene | Dec 18 2024 5:30 utc | 284

Philly | Dec 18 2024 0:11 utc | 222–
Englishman in NY | Dec 18 2024 2:20 utc | 268–
Striking an embassy Russia would never do as it’s against its rules, which are International Law.
As I understand the new doctrine, it eliminates the “proxy” nature of the situation and places NATO into direct conflict with Russia, which would allow Russia to strike any NATO nation since it’s a collective for its facilitating any attacks on Russia. It’s all up to Russia when it comes to retaliation for NATO attacks–there’s no must target NATO aspect of any retaliation. Russia can escalate whenever it so chooses–it’s not up to NATO. Now that the Oreshnik was used, many think that it must be used in any retaliation attack or that attack doesn’t count as a retaliation, which is very childish logic, but we read that all over. My understanding above is how it’s been explained to me by Lavrov, Putin, Medvedev, and Narishkin.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2024 5:38 utc | 285

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 17 2024 18:05 utc | 54
Please post as many links as you have to Kirillov’s testimony.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Dec 18 2024 5:58 utc | 286

@282
Never having the experience of visiting Russia, I agree.
Going by only what I have heard and read by their political leaders.
The nation has a more moral cohesiveness. A different style morality, overall.
Implying a different value of life, a different value for life. A bit different than modern western civilization.

Posted by: Middle-man | Dec 18 2024 6:06 utc | 287

Russia is not “bogged down” in the Ukraine.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 18 2024 6:11 utc | 288

The kiling of the Russian NBC general is an assassination, bracketed between diplomatic action and a concerted media campaign.

This is not your typical, random murder by bomb. It was a targeted intelligence operation, with Ukraine’s SBU immediately taking credit for the act. It also appears to have been encouraged, if not facilitated, by the CIA and/or the UK’s MI-6. Why? Because the corporate media was immediately reporting on this and treating it as a form of just retribution by Ukraine. Why? Because Ukraine charged General Kirillov on Monday as war criminal for the alleged use of chemical weapons against Ukrainian soldiers. (sonar21)

The U.S. tries to distance itself from the steaming mess.

Q: OK. And just one other topic, Ukraine. Did the US have any role at all either providing intelligence or otherwise in what looks like a targeted killing of the Russian general?
PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY MAJOR GENERAL RYDER: Yeah — I can tell you we were not aware of this operation in advance. We do not support or enable those kinds of activities. I’ve seen the reports. Don’t really have any information to provide other than what I’ve seen in the press, and so I’d have to refer you to the Ukrainians on that. (pentagon)

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 18 2024 6:11 utc | 289

“Russia doesn’t have to climb out of the RAND trap. They have already avoided it. All they have to do is win on the battlefield.”
Posted by: Ythisah | Dec 17 2024 18:21 utc | 64
Agreed, RU avoiding an UKrainian occupation trap is part of the process. Since sanctions were also part of that RAND plan, the Russians in order to fully escape that trap need to reverse NATO sanctions. That will be the true measure of success.
And if sanctions reversal is the ultimate goal, uniting Russia and Germany by trade, and by extension continental Europe, then measured responses and avoiding assassinations is the civilized approach. Big arrow offensives in addition to draining RU would also provoke Europe into a defensive mode. The slow roll avoids both. The only problem is time may be running out for BRICS (technically), and it continually gives the militaristic aspects of NATO first strike initiatives and escalation.
“As for attacking biowarfare labs, Oreshnik is the perfect tool since it incinerates all things in the target, which is what you want to do to biological agents.”
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 17 2024 19:54 utc | 98
Appreciate all your posts. My understanding is that the the incinerating plasma is only at best a few meters wide, the power of the weapon is it’s wide spread “earth shaking” ability, so vibrating a building or underground complex to destruction would probably release safeguarded pathogens. A better approach would be to cut electric and gas, as a functioning lab needs grid power. Redundant building power backups are for emergency, temporary situations, not long term functioning.
Which is what Russia is incrementally doing, and may be another strategic reason for the slow roll, to avoid an inadvertent release of Slavic specific pathogens.
My guess is that those UKrain bio labs have been shutdown some time ago. Additionally, RU special forces raid could acquire the lab data, information, processes and personnel. Transferring people, data and some equipment to safer spaces would be preferable to IP loss to your enemy.
A Slavic specific pathogen release early in the war would not be good for the UKrain troop numbers.

Posted by: jopalolive | Dec 18 2024 6:16 utc | 290

Re: Posted by: mjh | Dec 17 2024 20:23 utc | 112

Syria is the first sovereign nation to be divided up and partitioned between other nations since Poland in 1939. No, Russian security services will do as much as they can to identify and catch the on-site perpetrator(s). Later, after the conclusion of the Ukraine SMO, the planners and decision makers of these terrorist acts will be brought before judicial bodies for prosecution, or they will be assassinated when there is no risk of converting the SMO to WWIII. Revenge is a dish best served cold, and justice delayed is still justice.

Wow – incredible ignorance.
Not sure how you missed East & West Germany after World War II or North & South Korea for that matter – both carved up by foreign powers!

Posted by: Julian | Dec 18 2024 6:18 utc | 291

Maybe Russia should start assassinating American Healthcare CEOs.
Posted by: Ook | Dec 17 2024 23:34 utc | 205
Don’t give our Narrative Managers any ideas. I’m sure they’d pin Luigi’s act on Putler if they thought it could be sold as remotely plausible. Or even if it couldn’t.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 18 2024 6:59 utc | 292

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2024 5:38 utc | 296
>>>As I understand the new doctrine, it eliminates the “proxy” nature of the situation and places NATO into direct conflict with Russia, which would allow Russia to strike any NATO nation since it’s a collective for its facilitating any attacks on Russia. <<< Hmmm, yes, but hitting say Germany or Poland or UK or France for a strike from say Romania, might be an odd punishment. Bit hard to deliver a group "smack"! And the new doctrine you speak of is the "use of NUCLEAR retaliation if/when an existential threat to mother Russia is suspected by anyone from anywhere" not just any old ATACMS into a factory/airbase kind of shot. Is that not right? I saw it as a hint for NATO not to proxy fire deep into RF from Ukraine ... which is still ambiguously done. But outside of that Duma Doctrine, and deep RF strikes, other day to day mozzie hits are retaliated on a case by case scale. That was my point of contention that many miss. And besides, it's all just sabre rattling till it isn't!

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 18 2024 7:15 utc | 293

@ Paul Damascene | Dec 18 2024 5:30 utc | 295
Martynov excerpts some of Orlov’s hypothesis:

And now we can address the question of what Oreshnik most likely is. Here is what has been publicly announced about it:
Warhead temperature: 4000ºC
Speed: Mach 10 (2.5–3 km/s)
Mass of warhead: ~1.5 tonnes
Perusing Dmitry Mendeleev’s Periodic Table of Elements we find just one candidate for warhead metal: tungsten. It melts at 3422ºC and boils at 5555ºC. Taking the mass of the warhead (which, we assume for the sake of simplicity, consists entirely of a single shaped piece of tungsten) at 1,500 kg, it produces the equivalent of 1,500,000 kg of TNT or 1,5 kilotons — a respectable amount for a small tactical nuke.

https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2024/12/dmitry-orlov-came-up-with-hypothesis.html
If this is right, then the idea of a nuclear-capable Oreshnik is misinformation or disinformation — as mere tungsten provides plenty of boom for the buck.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 18 2024 8:03 utc | 294

Posted by: Michael J | Dec 17 2024 17:35 utc | 33
“Are these provocations building a smokescreen for a false flag which can be blamed on Russia who apparently looks to have motive[?]”
Thank you for the comment. That might be what they are planning. We can but guess as to what the goon-squad are thinking of doing next, but it is not going to be good for the 99%+ of us that just want not to live our lives in an unending horror movie.
My gut feeling is that they are planning something that will make 9/11 look like a NYE fireworks display by comparison…
The US Gov drone story is patently bullshit (it is their tech), and they are apparently setting up WWIII in the Middle East for the Flaccid Emporer (Donny the dumb prick).
Whether they try and pin it on Iran, Russia, or North Sentinel Island seems almost moot at this point.
We are dealing with spoiled, entitled, cretinous fucktards, who think that just because they went to the ‘correct’ schools and “sandstone universities”, that they are entitled to make life and death decisions for the rest of us.
If we don’t round them all up and banish them to some heavily guarded island somewhere, now, then we deserve all that they foister upon us.
Sorry for the rant, but I’m getting so tired of it that going “full Mangione” on them is, to me, an almost desirable prospect…and I’m a fucking pacifist.
I dearly hope we get to see a calendar that ends in “26” at this stage.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Dec 18 2024 8:06 utc | 295

Not sure whether Eastcalling’s substack piece has been mentioned yet. Worth a read IMO, as it adds to b’s article.
https://eastcalling.substack.com/p/on-the-death-of-general-kirillov
Just read this
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/fsb-arrests-perpetrator-of-bombing-that-killed-general-kiril
apologies if this is ‘old’ news in the bar.

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Dec 18 2024 8:38 utc | 296

Perusing Dmitry Mendeleev’s Periodic Table of Elements we find just one candidate for warhead metal: tungsten.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 18 2024 8:03 utc | 307
Meh. Molybdenum would work, too. (Materials used in field emission microscopy.)

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 18 2024 8:42 utc | 297

If RU were to retaliate with “Oreshnik” I postulate that it will be a more limited version, perhaps only one section of 6 submunitions instead of 36 on top of a Iskander or Kinzal. This would give them more options than hitting a large area complex, like a single large factory, dam, bridge or building. And it would give UKrain and NATO some pause for thought in their war gaming.
The US Dark Eagle is supposedly going to be adopted into use this next year, I read at mach 5 speed vs. mach 11 for Oreshnik. Still, the US can adopt it for Starship orbital artillery and make up for a lack in speed and power, with quantity and inexpensiveness.
In response to those who angelize RU, it absolutely has assassinations, just like almost every country, ever. Putin reputedly engaged in such decades ago.

Posted by: jopalolive | Dec 18 2024 8:54 utc | 298

The revised nuclear doctrines are separate independent issues.
Posted by: Philly | Dec 18 2024 7:25 utc | 306
That’s exactly what I have been saying! But it is you who is conflating the two.
1, There was the Nov 6 2024 update of the previous “threshold of usage of nuclear weapons”. Search “Russia Updates Nuclear Doctrine”. Read all about it. It states what you have been saying about removing any NATO proxy tricks to attack Russia. But it ONLY RELATES to the existential threat of Mother Russia … not so called mosquito attacks, like Kursk oblast invasion, Kerch Bridge attacks, Crimean water drones, Donbass City missiles, assassinations, regional terrorism, etc, etc.
2, Then there have been LATER media statements by Putin [NON-DOCTRINAL, INFORMAL], eg, “don’t cross our redlines or else”, and “we will revenge your terrorism” with reprisals against any belligerents who strike into deep Russia (however that is defined). These statements are not the same as the Nuclear Doctrinal ones, therefore allowing ambiguous, more discriminatory responses, asymmetrical “lessons” like power grid hits. These are more tactical than strategic. That’s where you and many others are getting mixed up.
You are clearly of the hit ’em back, hit ’em hard, brigade. That’s your opinion, that’s your nature. Fine. But you’ve got your criteria mixed up between existential and mosquito strikes. Hence Russia’s responses are not what you’d like or expect. A bomb assasination of one RF General in Moscow, or an ATACMS into Rostov is NO REASON, NOR DOCTRINALLY WARRANTED, for an Oreshnik into Rammstein Airbase in Germany. You and “most of MoA” might think so, but Putin clearly doesn’t.
End of argument.

Posted by: Englishman in NY | Dec 18 2024 8:58 utc | 299

“By starting the Special Military Operation in Ukraine Russia had actually fallen for the provocation RAND had planned for it. For Russia there was, at that moment, no alternative.”
Looks like a controlled implosion from the inside more than a Rand plan. Their sleep after Maidan is completely bizarre. Smart people do not allow such events to unfold uncontrolled when it’s clear even for a high school student where everything was going. But not to these losers.
But even so, the smo is so small and useless it does not matter what they do. The sleep hasn’t stopped, it continues. They’re placing themselves again in a situation from which they can’t escape.
And they are so losers they still won’t sell or give any weapons to anyone outside Nato and Nato allies, who will bomb Yemen and Iran into space sooner or later. It’s going to be very funny when Brics heroes will go back to dollar faster than Kirillov was blown up after Ukr “filed charges” against him. But not a single character from the RF wanted list was ever captured or killed.

Posted by: rk | Dec 18 2024 9:14 utc | 300