Russia - Agree To Be Provoked Or Fall For Lucy's Football?
Early this morning assassins from the Ukrainian Military Intelligence Service killed Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov, the commander of the Russian Radiological, Chemical, and Biological Defense Forces, in Moscow:
Lieutenant-General Igor Kirillov, commander of the nuclear, biological and chemical forces of the Russian army, died in a blast as he was heading out of a residential block in Moscow, the Russian Investigative Committee said in a statement.An explosive device was hidden in an electric scooter parked nearby. Kirillov’s aide also died in the attack, the investigative committee said, announcing a criminal investigation. Video footage obtained by POLITICO corroborates that version of events.
Kirillov lived in a normal apartment block. His aide was picking him up for work. They were observed and someone who was watching (and filming) them pulled the trigger.
Kirillov was well known. He gave several public presentations about secret U.S. bio-warfare experiments in Ukraine:
Writing on Kirillov’s passing, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zakharova said that throughout his career he had repeatedly exposed the crimes of the “Anglo-Americans” such as “NATO provocations with chemical weapons in Syria, Britain’s manipulations with prohibited chemical substances and provocations in Salisbury and Amesbury, the deadly activities of American biolabs in Ukraine, and much more.”“He worked fearlessly. He did not hide behind people’s backs,” Zakharova wrote.
This is of course a provocation designed by Ukraine to make peace talks with Russia, as president-elect Donald Trump presumably favors, less possible.
The question for Russia is now how to react to it.
Should it hit back with its whole might and destroy the 'decision making centers' in Kiev who are responsible for this incident? (Note: An accurate definition of 'decision centers' would include the embassies of the U.S. and Great Britain in Kiev.)
Or should it hold back and hope that negotiations about Ukraine with Donald Trump will actually achieve some positive, if temporary, results?
It is a difficult question.
The general configuration of the incoming Trump administration is hawkish.
It is thus highly unlikely, James George Jatras writes, that any agreement which could be seen as positive for Russia will be worth the paper it is written on:
[T]he Russians have made it clear that they will accept no temporary truces, no ceasefires, no more promises made to be broken like piecrusts, no pauses as cynical tricks to get the Russians to forgo their current and growing military advantage. (...) No, they insist, there must be either a genuine, definitive, binding settlement that ensures a lasting peace based on mutual security, or Russian forces will press on until their objectives – notably “demilitarization and denazification” of Ukraine – are achieved militarily. Such an outcome would mean at least replacement of the current regime in Kiev and, more likely, the end of Ukraine’s statehood.For the West, this would constitute a total debacle of Afghanistan-like proportions effectively signaling the end of US hegemony in Europe, the [Great American Empire’s] crown jewel. What can Trump offer the Russians to avoid that?
...
[T]he real question for the Trump Administration becomes a political one of how much wiggle room there is in the Russians’ stated determination not to rely on more promises of the sort that have been repeatedly broken in the past. Put another way: if Trump-Lucy wants to avoid utter defeat in the European theater of the worldwide confrontation between the GAE and BRICS-Eurasia, so he can get on to mixing it up with Iran and China, can he dupe Putin-Charlie Brown into taking another run at the football?I think he at least has a good shot at it.
Jatras lists several points that the U.S. could temporarily concede to Russia only to later pull the proverbial football on each of those items.
Russia would of course expect this. But the opening question - to fall for the provocation or to find an alternative way - can also be asked within a larger context.
In 2019 RAND, the Defense Department's think-tank, published the main policy paper that led to the war in Ukraine.
Extending Russia - Competing from Advantageous Ground
Its summary says:
This report examines a range of possible means to extend Russia. As the 2018 National Defense Strategy recognized, the United States is currently locked in a great-power competition with Russia. This report seeks to define areas where the United States can compete to its own advantage. Drawing on quantitative and qualitative data from Western and Russian sources, this report examines Russia's economic, political, and military vulnerabilities and anxieties. It then analyzes potential policy options to exploit them — ideologically, economically, geopolitically, and militarily (including air and space, maritime, land, and multidomain options). After describing each measure, this report assesses the associated benefits, costs, and risks, as well as the likelihood that measure could be successfully implemented and actually extend Russia. Most of the steps covered in this report are in some sense escalatory, and most would likely prompt some Russian counter-escalation.
Arming Ukraine, and pushing it into provoking a Russian intervention, was seen as the most 'profitable' way to weaken the Russian Federation.
By starting the Special Military Operation in Ukraine Russia had actually fallen for the provocation RAND had planned for it. For Russia there was, at that moment, no alternative.
U.S. anti-Russia hawks will try their best to keep Russia bogged down in Ukraine.
But others see the growing danger that a prolonged conflict creates for the West. The economic damage it has caused is already substantial. It is also diverting U.S. capacities from countering China.
Trump's peace allures may thereby become a real alternative for Russia to climb out of the RAND trap.
It is either all in, take Kiev and defeat Ukraine as a state, or take the negotiation route, concede on some issues and agree to an imperfect solution which may (or more likely not) turn out to be permanent.
Russia's president Vladimir Putin, and the circles around him, will have the ponder these difficult questions.
Posted by b on December 17, 2024 at 16:19 UTC | Permalink
next page »He who chooses to accept humiliation instead of fighting his attackers, first gets humiliated, and then gets attacked anyway.
Both Putin personally and the others should know it very well by now, both the man and his fellows said things to similar effect on multiple occasions since the war began. That is also the mood in the Russian society, since there is understanding that this is not about piddling Ukraine.
As such, they cannot politically afford to back down even if they wanted to. In no small part thanks to the West itself absolutizing the war to an existential level - the message's been received by the Russians, they don't get scared into submission by that since they know they'll just be destroyed as a nation and people after they submit anyway, might as well fight.
Despite Western confidence in their stereotype of Russian government being an absolute monarchy with only personal interests of the monarch and his inner circle mattering and things like the popular will or sentiment not being part of the equation, they very much are. If Putin is felt to be betraying the popular will and sentiment, that'll be seen and felt immediately. And anyone who might replace either him or his fellows, will certainly be much less gentlemanly and softly-softly restrained with the West than he's ever been, because right now that's the #1 criticism of the Putin strategic approach.
Posted by: Red Outsider | Dec 17 2024 16:34 utc | 2
The question for Russia is now how to react to it.As a start, one must consider who is responsible. I would say Budanov is high on that list, but probably not alone. From Sputnik:
General Kirillov, head of Russia’s Radiological Chemical and Biological Defense Forces, gained prominence due to his regular appearances at military briefings, accusing the Kiev regime and its US patrons of operating biolaboratories and using chemical weapons.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 17 2024 16:34 utc | 3
There is nothing to talk about with those criminals, when will Russia hit the NAZI leadership? are they waiting for Putin to be the target?
Posted by: Englishman | Dec 17 2024 16:37 utc | 4
Take me in oh tender woman,
Take me in for Heaven's sake,
Take me in oh tender woman,
sighed Uncle Snake.
Posted by: kupkee | Dec 17 2024 16:40 utc | 5
I meant to say this was a NATO attack 4 miles from the Kremlin, if this doesn't provoke a response a devastating one i don't know what will.
Posted by: Englishman | Dec 17 2024 16:40 utc | 6
Why kill Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov now? Syria has fallen and the old lie about Assad using chemical weapons against his people has been repeated was my first thought. Kirillov had the evidence and was the most knowledgeable about who used these weapons and where they originated. Apparently, he also knew about use of such weapons by Russia's American backed Ukrainian foes. Kirillov has been silenced and cannot implicate the hegemon with his expert testimony.
Posted by: Keme | Dec 17 2024 16:41 utc | 7
Lol. Right on cue b!
As I posted on Ukraine thread
I E D
The weapon of choice to keep the War on Terror active in the brainwashed western soldiers service minds. Supplied to ISIS by its backers and Masters and carried out by its DS minions.
Ukrops targeting a Top Level person who has no direct relevance to its now guaranteed strategic extermination ? Why not just use some assassin with a rifle or drones?
Why not Gerasimov or Putin ?
Any number of the heads of the military and civilian committees?
Why Him?
Given that the Collective Wastes ‘expert’ spooks have already popped up to make a song and dance - such as the odious ChemicalAli of the UK, Hamish De Breton Gordon - with a Narrative that is designed to deflect the revelations of the BioLabs.
I’d say it’s probably Mr and Mrs Kagans, all the third gen Nazis , all the failed again Napoleon Hitlers and their ziofascist Owners, The Great Gamer imperialists, in a bit of a panic about what was to be laid at Drumpffs New Yalta surrender talks, because as 45 he may have not been told about it.
It should be DJT and his team who should worry more about their security now - because this attack is aimed at them, as a cover as they get hit.
The seismic moves in West Asia are part of that.
The negotiations and arrangements will be well underway and the Old is being dragged screaming and yelling to its well deserved justice of the Gallows.
There are No Good Nazis or Fascists.
Whatever generation they are.
Let’s see what b says.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 17 2024 16:13 utc | 363
Thank you b, it seems we somewhat concur! But your analysis is the best always.
What can be added to the discussion?
China is missing in the picture - the real big elephant in the room.
I personally doubt any geopolitics is conducted without Xi and co.
On Iran - since it is now a full member of the SCO - the strategic partnership - any further attack on it would be the (nato article 5, but real) attack on them all.
EurAsia might have unexpectedly (maskarovia?)pulled its head in at its Western Asia European Mediterranean edge but it is going to expand it across the largest human continent - Africa.
North Africa will be its guardian from us denizens of the Dead Empire - trying to stop us migrating out of Europe across the dangerous Mediterranean!
The now fatally extended illegal apartheid entity with its proxy 9 million settlers fooled into killing and robbing the Semitics - will fade like morning fog as the billions of EurAsia and Africa form like mercury coming together.
What think the barflies? I’ll check back later tonight.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 17 2024 16:41 utc | 8
Also remember this incident in May when Ukraine launched drone attacks against Russian early warning radars (Armavir and Orsk) and damaged at least one radar antenna.
It's possible Russia will attack US nuclear infrastructure like the very low frequency radio station at Cutler, Maine (communicates with the nuclear missile submarines while under water).
Local giving a tour from the coast of the radio station: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedowneastcowboy/video/7397757662156360990
Posted by: iwonder | Dec 17 2024 16:43 utc | 9
Thanks, b - for providing and monitoring this excellent open forum for discussion.
Could You please start a new thread for neither Palestine nor Ukraine topics? I would like to see and read some valuable videos (link recommendations) and comments regarding the actual sightings of drones and UAPs (?) in the US. I am a far away resident foreigner not familiar with circumstances & reactions at the scene in the US.
Thanks also to all the positive contributors here for sharing their opinions, knowledge, experience and insight.
Wishing Happy Christmas Days and a good start into the next year!
Gerhard
Posted by: Gerhard | Dec 17 2024 16:45 utc | 10
All past history, including recent Syria downfall, shows that if the West can bully, they will bully. If they can't bully, then they offer carrots, till they think they can re-bully. Treaties are signed to be broken in the future, no qualms about ethics or legality.
By now, Russia, China, and in their unity wisdom, should have learned about that treachery.
This is definitely a calculated provocation. How Russia responds will be interesting to observe. Hope Russia takes its time, but in no uncertain terms.
Posted by: KitaySupporter | Dec 17 2024 16:52 utc | 11
Just to add to one of B's major points
Merkel's memoirs confirm Russia sought to avoid conflict — reporter
Thomas Fazi said that, according to the former German chancellor, Russian President Vladimir Putin was committed to peace
"Even in early days of 2022, almost up to the end, <...> [Russian President Vladimir] Putin did really try to avoid this outcome," Fazi told the Neutrality Studies YouTube channel in an interview. "Interestingly, Merkel does confirm this. She does confirm that, at the end of the day, Putin was committed to peace and was committed to avoiding this war through diplomatic means," he added.
Now, the minimum response acceptable would be a multi-pronged decapitation, let's cut the decapitation, extermination it should be, of the SBU's fifth directorate created to act as a saboteur force.
Now with enough intel this could be done maximizing the presence of mi6 handlers (but uk wouldn't acknowledge so no harm no foul)
All within the rules of secret wars.
As for show... maybe the SBU headquarters receiving a flock of kinzhals would be enough.
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 17 2024 16:57 utc | 12
The media here (EU land) spin it that he was suspected of coordinating chemical attacks against 404. Brazen reverse blaming. No mention of him investigating the biolabs (confirmed by Nuland) at all!
Posted by: Teraspol | Dec 17 2024 17:00 utc | 13
Orechnik straight up the Kiev ministry of defense building.
No pre announcement, no comment afterward.
Posted by: comrade simba | Dec 17 2024 16:34 utc | 1
Agreed. It's a perfectly legitimate enemy target. It's inhabitants can't read the runes and continue unfazed with their terrorism, while totally insulated from the harsh war conditions of the front. Hazelnut it!
By rights, the same should be done in Washington and London, but a mere demonstration on Kiev would likely get the message across while not provoking a wider war.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 17 2024 17:00 utc | 15
Please take me I’m yours…for the love of the JewishAmerican empire, forever and ever amen
Posted by: Sadness | Dec 17 2024 17:07 utc | 16
There are two moving parts here:
a. The provocation by Ukraine - the assassination, and
b. The long-term provocation and weakening by the U.S.
Item a) is a cost of war with Ukraine; there's more to come, and Russia will deal with Ukraine as appropriate.
Item b) is a different story. Russia and China are going to be fighting the U.S. for years to come. So long as the actual perpetrators of this incipient WWIII continue to pay no price for their action, this war-making can continue for a few more decades. Yes, the U.S. public pays via debt, money-printing and the associated inflation. But the perps are not paying.
The "difficult decision" is how to make these perpetrators and their proxies - particularly Israel and the associated NeoCon and Zionist machinery - pay a distinct and painful price for their various-form attacks.
If the Russian response is clearly signaled as a pin-point attack on these oligarch-NeoCon-Zionist perpetrators, and that's largely where this is coming from, that will actually earn significant support across the West.
Much of the West's citizens know where the problem is, we're just not equipped to confront it. Russia is, and so is China.
Next time Mr. Putin does an interview with Tucker Carlson, he might take the occasion to lay the ground-work for the narrowing of targets. Same for Mr. Lavrov and for China's Wang Yi. Tell the world exactly who is behind the U.S.' endless war, and why.
Let's see if Carlson Tucker is willing to conduct and present _that_ discussion to his audience of millions of U.S. citizens.
When the next segment of the trade war kicks off this spring, increase the financial and materials cost to the U.S. oligarchs. Money is what they care about. Don't make "Uncle Sam" pay, make the _oligarchs_ pay. Take away the camouflage (e.g. ability of oligarchs to hide behind the U.S. general public) and target the perpetrators.
By far the most important thing to do, though, is to make sure BRICS works. That's what the oligarchs fear most - for good reason - and where Russia and China have the most leverage.
This bullying by the West is being done by a very few, at the expense of the entire world. These bullies have no loyalty to the public here in the West, or anywhere else.
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Dec 17 2024 17:09 utc | 17
Russia to Raise Issue of Lt. Gen. Kirillov's Murder at UN Security Council Meeting
UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) - Russia will raise the issue of the murder of its chemical defense chief Igor Kirillov during a UN Security Council meeting on Ukraine on December 20, deputy envoy to the UN Dmitry Polyanskiy said on Tuesday.
"We will definitely raise the issue of the terrorist attack against Igor Kirillov at a UN Security Council meeting that we requested for December 20 to discuss the supply of Western weapons to Ukraine and their impact on the prospects for a peaceful settlement of the Ukraine crisis," Polyanskiy wrote on Telegram. "Those responsible for this crime must be brought to justice and face the unequivocal condemnation of the entire international community."
- Sputnik
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 17 2024 17:11 utc | 18
Uh huh: Finns are getting cold feet over the possibility of a NATO "Peacekeeping Mission" in the battle zone. Their President, Alexander Stubb fired a shot across the bow opposing such a provocative move. With that long, cold border with the R.U. one does not need to wonder why.
Looks like the Finns are waking up and smelling the coffee. Maybe there are a few adults in the room now that that ditzy young female is no longer calling the shots. Clear back during the '39-40 Winter War with Russia, they did give a good account for their "Sisu" in combatting a foe with immense military advantages in practically every vector. Those memories still linger. There is a romantic side to their innate practicality; however their intel folks have likely fully informed their administrative types that joining the gang on what would be a suicide mission would be a NO GO.
Good news in an otherwise dreary winter.
Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 17 2024 17:14 utc | 19
Failed states are the perfect place to make Bioweapons and chemical weapons.
Syrian factories have been destroyed before in Syria and in Ukraine. This week Israel has very carefully finished the job , before HTS and Turkey get their hands on the evidence.
Assad is a crypto - Jew who has been silenced and Kirrillin who was on his case has now been silenced as well.
I personally think this is nothing to do with Ukraine, and everything to do with Assad. Assad was a leading perpetrator of War on Terror rendition - torture- chemical brainwashing. Until he had a make-pver as a benign democratic popular leader, by Russia who wanted access to their naval base in Tartus.
You can fool some of the people, some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. I am accused by Turk 152 of trolling. Well, sorry, if trolling is speaking the truth that others don't like listening to, yes, guilty as charged. There are no Muslim leaders worthy of the title of either leader or Muslim, except those who have bern martyred defending the Palestinians and Lebanon.
Good riddance to bad rubbish
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 17 2024 17:15 utc | 20
1) The question has already been answered. Biden is stuffing all the weapons that are left into Ukraine before the 20th. This means that Trump no longer has anything to offer in negotiations. Negotiations are therefore pointless.
2) Medvedev is calling for the "destruction of the leadership in Kiev". So not the US embassy, but the government and the SUB and military leadership, which Russia has not had on its action plan so far.
3) Russia can only enter into negotiations when its own security has been established to such an extent that even NATO's 10-year plan is ineffective. That means securing the entire Black Sea coast so that Ukraine cannot build a fleet (in the event of a ceasefire or peace); because it can be assumed that every peace treaty will result in a new attack as soon as the West and Ukraine think that they now have enough weapons and troops for something like that. In other words, a war without end with perhaps a few breaks in between.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 17:15 utc | 21
A few bullet-points/suggestions:
1] If Russia wants peace it has to successfully conclude this war...and that means taking Odessa and it's environs all the way to Hungarian/Slovak borders which should be modified to return to them lands that the Galacians stole in 1991 and have oppressed ever since.
2] If Russia wants this war to repeat itself in another 5-10 years I advise they negotiate terms right away just before the battleground establishes a lasting peace. In other words, all the sacrifice but, none of the benefits of war. Oh yeah, that's the ticket.
3] Russia should let the dumpster-fire that Team-Biden-Lame-Duck-Edition die down for six months after the inauguration before initiating talks/surrender-terms...be diplomatic, call it a cooling down period. Yes men are dying in the interim but, [see point 2]. Then negotiate point 1].
4] Russia needs to give a few concessions to smooth ruffled feathers and throw the 3LAs a few bones, 1] give-up on the de-nazification of Galicia, 2] let Galicia's Nazis have their twice monthly torchlight parades where they can get together with their demonic masters, DC/London's 3LAs, 3] let the Nazi get together to smash windows twice a year [in Galicia-proper*], 4] let those Nazis get together to drink beer while chatting about slaughtering whole groups of peoples in their shiny leather lederhosen. All in the confines of *gelded-Galicia, a German territory. A German territory subject to German laws and German immigration policy. Okay...okay...the last line was just for laughs or...was it?
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 17 2024 17:16 utc | 22
Thanks b - I think Russians will do their investigations and act in accordance with and within their legal framework. But it is within their rights to attack 'decision making centres' as legitimate targets. Thereby they can take out Budanov, Zelensky etc., and, so it seems the British and American embassies.
Posted by: The Busker | Dec 17 2024 17:19 utc | 23
I admit that I am a couch corporal, therefore I have nothing to teach anyone,
but as an observer I would say that Putin likes to get slapped in the face without reacting, the facts prove it.
it seems like the story of that guy who comes home with his face disfigured by punches, and who, when answering his wife about what had happened to him, replied like this; I met a guy who started beating me up, he, the guy, played me a lot of songs but I sang them to him a lot.
Posted by: Cagliostro | Dec 17 2024 17:22 utc | 24
Killing Kirillov is like being bitten by a mosquito. Unpleasant, but not life threatening (well escept for Kirillov). And whatever Kirillov knew, other people in his team certainly knew too. So what should Russia do ? Nothing probably, or just kill Budanov, which they are probably aching to, and will slowly bring Z's paranoïa to boiling point !
Brics have one weapon of choice that is far better than Oreshnik ! Provoque an economic crisis in the West that brings about the collective unwinding of the derivatives market. It's probably quite easy to do. Block the Hormuz straight + dump a few trillion of US treasuries + bar a few sensitive exports, like rare earths, all done simultaneously.
This lever cannot be used before the BRICS have a financial architecture in place that will let them escape the cripling catastrophy this will cause in the west, as financial institutions, governments, investors all go belly up more or less simultaneously. Won't be a nice sight, as the west is so heavily reliant on the BRICS for so many things from energy to chips. But then again... that's the only garantee the BRICS can ever have that fiat currencies, and hence colonial adventures will be abandonned by the west for a century.
Will take another couple of years to happen. In the meanwhile, mosquitoes will go on biting.
Posted by: Shahmaran | Dec 17 2024 17:26 utc | 25
One more thing: It should be remembered that the USA has repeatedly carried out assassinations against undesirable leaders. So this is also a warning, everyone in Russia who holds a leadership position is on the USA's "hit list", even more so if military action does not lead to success, as is the case now.
This makes it worth considering whether Russia should use the same means, i.e. not only kill Ukrainian leaders, but also put senior US figures on the list as targets. In other words, create your own "wanted" list with a bounty.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 17:29 utc | 26
Perhaps if Russian intelligence services have any proof Israel had foreknowledge of Oct 7 now would be the time to let that information confirmatively freely circulate, as obviously a Greater Israel if achieved would be the equivalent of having a Texas-sized American state in both Turkey's and Russia's near abroad, in addition to Ukraine (which might potentially be a shared condominium of the EU and the US if it ever was admitted into the former—while Greater Israel would be all US).
Posted by: Ludovic | Dec 17 2024 17:29 utc | 27
I agree but disagree with comrade simba ( Dec 17 2024 16:34 utc | 1 ), he picks the wrong target :)
One Oreshnik (36 impacts) for Kiev sounds perfectly fine to me. The targets should only be the residences/houses of the higher up nazis but excluding Zelenski who is too useful in his idiocy. It should leave the government buildings alone. Early morning would be good timing.
That would make it a mirror attack.
They wanted attention, give them (the entire city) a good shake :)
Overkill is perfectly fine, the targets will be obliterated and/or fall down the hole :)
The city and its dilapidated bridges will need complete rebuilding and restoration anyway if there is a peaceful future.
Hell, do the same for Lvov.
Or instead of the Oreshniks use a hundred Kinshals, either way it would help ordinary ex-Ukrainians by removing some of the big energy consumers, one fancy house probably uses as much as a hundred apartments :)
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 17 2024 17:30 utc | 28
Russia is playing a long game in the dethronement of the West without setting the whole planet on fire. RAND's speculations and wishful thinking are irrelevant. The West has been imploding since the start of the SMO in Ukraine and the trajectory doesn't look like ending very soon, if ever. It is painful when crimes like the assassination of Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov is not avenged directly and poignantly, but Russia decision makers are probably looking at the big picture. Bringing down the whole stinking edifice of the West is much more important. Of course Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov will be avenged, but in a more painful way both for the Kiev regime and its Western sponsors. Just look at what is happening in the EU, Germany, France and even at the citadel of the evil empire, the USA. It is a tower of Babylon in the collective West now.
Posted by: Steve | Dec 17 2024 17:31 utc | 29
Use it it or lose it, Russia.
Use it, or lose it ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 17 2024 17:34 utc | 30
I doubt Russia will make any substantial response like taking out Ukrainian intelligence or top command. And Putin will probably settle for some negotiated peace. And Russia can look forward to another war in 15-20 years.
Sure Putin has a history of not bluffing and going to war when needed. But he also has a habit of settling for worthless peace agreements.
Posted by: Al | Dec 17 2024 17:34 utc | 31
@The Busker
the foreign embassies (GB/FR/etc.) have in fact long since moved to Lviv, in Kiev there are only show personnel
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 17:35 utc | 32
Are these provocations building a smokescreen for a false flag which can be blamed on Russia who apparently looks to have motive
That Trump cannot offer Russia much to get anything in return has been a theme in my comments for 2+ weeks now.
A negotiation is an agreement, usually some manner of compromise or exchange.
Russia has laid out what it will not compromise on. Trump wants them to change their minds.
Considering that they are winning, why would they stop until they have achieved their maximalist goals?
It only just occurred to me that Trump can do even less than we might think possible because he doesn't control the government. He didn't his last time in office and his opponents have had time to plan for him.
He didn't control the CIA. The DIA, the DoD, etc. He told them to withdraw from Syria, and they ignored his order. He changed the leadership he was still unable to accomplish the basic task of declassification with his own people leading agencies.
The first month or so will tell us a lot about what Trump can do by how quickly he consolidates power and what he is able to direct the government to do and how they follow it.
He's going to bang out all sorts of low-hanging fruit like executive orders and shuffling leadership. That's the sizzle and will be sold as such.
Once again, does anyone at the bar see something Trump could exchange with Putin in return for cooperation? Maybe you have a novel view and see something most of us have overlooked.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 17:36 utc | 34
@The Busker
the foreign embassies (GB/FR/etc.) have in fact long since moved to Lviv, in Kiev there are only show personnel
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 17:35 utc | 32
Sensible
Posted by: The Busker | Dec 17 2024 17:39 utc | 35
This makes it worth considering whether Russia should use the same means, i.e. not only kill Ukrainian leaders, but also put senior US figures on the list as targets. In other words, create your own "wanted" list with a bounty.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 17:29 utc | 26
The Americans are immature barbarians.
They haven't been around long enough to know why the rule of not killing the leaders came about.
Once they start losing their elite to package bombs they'll get the message and start playing chess by the rules.
But of course, someone has to volunteer to teach that lesson ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 17 2024 17:39 utc | 36
Putin with all his good intentions dropped the ball by not knocking out the head of the snake.
Is it too late, yes... What next? Simply go for the head and throat of the snake and they will take Russia seriously.
Putin is smart but weak with the hammer.
Posted by: memyselfandi | Dec 17 2024 17:39 utc | 37
The bare minimum response should be to target the US/israeli puppets in Kiev, if not NATO/israeli military officers themselves. But we all know Russia will do absolutely nothing other than complain about how "western partners" broke the agreements they had not to target each others' leadership. This lack of response will then guarantee that these kind of attacks continue.
We saw this two years ago with the murder of Darya Dugina. The reason these attacks continue is because the perpetrators know they will suffer absolutely no consequences. They can kill any and all Russian people with impunity, and the Russian Government will do absolutely nothing to punish them for it, for fear of "escalation". Ironically their complete lack of resolve guarantees escalation because their enemies know they can do virtually anything to attack Russia short of using a nuclear bomb, and Russia will do absolutely nothing in retaliation.
Maybe Russia will attack some old Soviet factory in Ukraine, or kill some more of the press ganged slaves on the frontline. I'm sure Nuland, Poroshenko, Zelensky, Netanyahu etc. will be really upset about that. They'll be quaking in their boots that Russia might kill some more of their poor Slavic slaves. I used to support Putin and the other Russian leaders but events in Syria and Ukraine have shown they don't have the ruthlessness required to oppose the zionists and their anglo collaborators.
If they weren't serious about doing what was necessary to defeat them then they never should have tried to oppose them in the first place. Unlike the Russian leaders, they do not fight half-heartedly. When they put their minds to something, they go all-in, and they never give up, no matter how many setbacks they suffer. They have an unrelenting will to fight and to dominate the rest of humanity. If only the Russian leaders had even half the ruthlessness they do, Russia wouldn't be in the mess it's currently in.
There needs to be a complete clear out of the Russian leadership. Liberals like Putin, Medvedev, Lavrov etc. have proven they don't have what it takes. Russia now doesn't need a Kerensky or a Nicholas II - they need a Stalin, a man of steel. Putin has shown that he doesn't have it. He is a mediocre leader at best, that is not enough under the current circumstances. My first choice would be Strelkov, but I think that's unlikely to happen.
The most likely outcome is that Putin will continue to cling on with no intention or plan of actually defeating the anglozionists, which means they will eventually succeed in carrying out a "Moscow Maidan", just as they did recently in Syria.
The Syrian Army were demoralised by years of endless attacks against them while they were forbidden to strike back for fear of "escalation", until eventually they decided that leaders who weren't willing to back them up weren't worth fighting for anymore. The same thing will happen in Russia if new leaders don't come to power.
Russia has two options, either they get serious about destroying the anglozionist empire and do whatever it takes to defeat them, or accept the destruction and looting of their country as is currently happening to Syria. There is not going to be any compromise - either total victory or total defeat. Unlike them, zionists play for total victory, not a draw.
Posted by: Alieu | Dec 17 2024 17:40 utc | 38
Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov worked in service to the world and to all of us. The curators, planners, and executors of this heinous crime deserve a kiss from a hazelnut tree. Evidently, I am not the only one thinking about Oreshniks.
We await an Oreshnik (https://t.me/IntelRepublic/44088?single) (Hazel) hypersonic missile on Bankovaya Street (main government buildings in Kiev.)
Medvedev
Posted by: Mary | Dec 17 2024 14:46 utc | 347
Posted by: Mary | Dec 17 2024 17:42 utc | 39
Give Trump five weeks.
Posted by: Passerby | Dec 17 2024 17:00 utc | 14
Five weeks to prove that US is agreement capable? LOL.
Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Dec 17 2024 17:43 utc | 40
Diplomatic question is whether or not the "Master of the Deal" is actually in charge of U$$A foreign policy and thereby would be "agreement capable". The tell would be whether upon Inauguration he would begin to disassemble his Talmudist and $habos Goy foreign policy administrators.
If the Trumpster does not clear out the Augean $table of the Enemies of Humanity...the Genociders and their masters and enablers; then the R.U. could conclude that he might just possibly, be agreemen incapable.
Militarily, all informed researchers full well understand that the R.U. holds a handful of Aces, while the Maidan coup regime is rotting from the inside, while their increasingly hapless boots on the ground are worn down to a frazzle, with disrupted communications and logistics...while being forced by their "superiors" to die for a losing cause.
The real Trump Cards are not held within the Di$trict of Corruption.
Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 17 2024 17:45 utc | 41
Meditation:
The killing of Kirillov is an attack on the strategic nuclear infrastructure of the R.F.
Yes, this man and his staff are "infrastructure". Perhaps the most important component.
The first was an attempt months ago to destroy Russia's early warning radar systems.
The attack on such strategic nuclear weapons infrastructure portends a future attempt to further degrade Russia's nuclear deterrent.
Why?
To gradually strip away Russia's nuclear infrastructure - OR - the will to use it.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 17 2024 17:46 utc | 42
This bullying by the West is being done by a very few, at the expense of the entire world. These bullies have no loyalty to the public here in the West, or anywhere else.
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Dec 17 2024 17:09 utc | 17
A critically important fact to keep in mind. Thanks, Tom.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 17 2024 17:47 utc | 43
that's sad about Dr. Kirillov. Putin should do something radical right in the middle of kiev.
Posted by: annie | Dec 17 2024 17:49 utc | 44
Putin with all his good intentions dropped the ball by not knocking out the head of the snake.
I thought that was the plan in February of 2024...but somehow the snake was too slithery for his minions
Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | Dec 17 2024 17:49 utc | 45
Who knows how Russia will respond to the assassination of General Kirillov? We are all sitting on sofas and speculating.
One thing about which I am certain is that the Kremlin leaders will think very carefully before taking any action, and that they will look at the problem from all possible angles.
And that includes viewing the problem in the largest strategic context, which is that we are already living in World War 3. Which broke out in late February of 2022. So, it is not a matter of how to avoid world war, but how to bring it to conclusion without thermonuclear apocalypse.
Posted by: Clever Dog | Dec 17 2024 17:49 utc | 46
Posted by: memyselfandi | Dec 17 2024 17:39 utc | 37
##############
Who is the head of the snake?
Surely you don't mean Biden or Zelensky ...
That's the problem with these sorts of statements, you don't even know who the Russians should actually target.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 17:51 utc | 47
This is a provocation, the goal of every provocation is to generate a reaction. Russia will not react directly to the provocation.
Medvedev has being given the "Bad Cop" role, advocating for violence first and talks later. But nothing will happens soon.
The best Russia can do is prolong this war and soon enough, Banderast will try eating each-others and/or people of 404 will hate them enough to do terrorism themselves. Heard about that bombed TCR office lately ? This is the beginning of the beginning :).
Posted by: Savonarole | Dec 17 2024 17:55 utc | 49
Gonna be a real fun time the United States of Israel when the majority of Americans paying for all this death realizes that Trump was the head of the snake in the poem he read to his followers three times.
Remember the "rules" of the Zionazi's dead god: they have to tell you what they're going to do to you.
Posted by: Nooneuknow | Dec 17 2024 17:58 utc | 50
"Trump's peace allures may thereby become a real alternative for Russia to climb out of the RAND trap."
Given that the Russian economy is not extended in the way the RAND report envisaged (because, like the rest of what passes for the Collective Worst leadership cadre, they believed their own bullshit assumptions and created reality) - see this piece from November 2022 - https://www.leftbrainwave.com/2022/11/the-coming-european-economic-apocalypse.html - along with the fact that Russia and the heartland actually have an industrial base which actually functions at a practical level; it would seem reasonable to surmise that it is the West which needs to climb out of the RAND trap which has backfired on them.
Russia (or the rest of the "Jungle") is neither under any obligation nor any pressure to assist the flailing, soon to be corpse of a system with no efficacy, in escaping a trap of its own design and manufacture.
As former UK diplomat Alistair Crook observes here - https://strategic-culture.su/news/2024/12/16/new-geo-political-map-unfolding-the-end-syria-and-palestine-for-now/ - "Well, western countries are deep in debt; their fiscal room for manoeuvre is shrinking fast, and bond-holders are beginning to mutiny. There is a race to find a new collateral for fiat currencies. It used to be gold; since the 1970s it was oil, but the petrodollar has faltered. The Anglo-Americans would love to have Iran’s oil again – as they did until the 1970s – to collateralise and build a new money system tied to the real value inherent in commodities."
Point being, that even ten years of stealing the oil from the geographical entity formerly known as Syria has been insufficient to continue the Ponzi scheme that passes for an economic system in the West. The trillions of dollars worth of resources in Ukraine which Lindsey Graham has been salivating over in recent months is likely to be a mirage. Even Iran's oil would be insufficient. The only collateral necessary to breath a few more decades of life into the ultimately doomed Ponzi scheme is dependent upon inflicting a strategic defeat on Russia and China to whip the rest of the non-Western world into line so as to carve up the Heartland and World Island in order to corral those resources.
A scenario less likely than finding rocking horse droppings.
Posted by: Dave Hansell | Dec 17 2024 18:01 utc | 51
thanks b..
the security service building in ukraine would be a good place to take out.. of course the cockroaches remaining with move to a new location, but it would force them to reconsider these one off assassinations...
but i guess that is playing checkers, and i think russia is playing a different game..
"Kirillov was killed in the blast one day after Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) formally declared him a suspect in the alleged use of chemical weapons against Kiev’s military. The general rejected claims that Russia had been attacking Ukraine with riot control agents and chemical weapons, recalling that the OPCW had confirmed the complete destruction of all Russian chemical weapons stockpiles in 2017."
Posted by: james | Dec 17 2024 18:03 utc | 52
Mike Rivero at whatreallyhappened.com is saying Kirrilov was the person that exposed Hunter Biden's part ownership of the Ukrainian biolabs.
Old Joe getting his paybacks in while he still can...?
Posted by: A rope leash | Dec 17 2024 18:04 utc | 53
This is a great loss to the world, as well as to Russia. I saved a snippet of the general's testimony about the US bioweapon, including, very importantly, the fact that the original release was not the only one. Every "variant" was a new release.
I got this from Peter AU's blog, so props to him for posting it.
“…the coronavirus was artificial and, with a high degree of likelihood, aided by American advances was generated in biotechnology ... "
According to our experts, this is reflected in the variability uncharacteristic of most coronaviruses, resulting in different peaks in incidence, significant differences in lethality and infectivity, uneven geographic spread, and the unpredictability of the epidemic process overall. Despite efforts to contain and isolate cases, the pandemic appears to be being artificially fueled by the exposure of new variants of the virus to this or that region."
I use this to push for the US to abide by international law, specifically the 1972 Bioweapons Treaty, which is also the law in the USA. All 300+ bioweapons research labs operated by the US around the world, need to be shut down immediately.
They are illegal, as well as dangerous and immoral.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 17 2024 18:05 utc | 54
@Alieu
Your post shows barroom thinking, a hasty approach, without thinking about the direct and indirect consequences. Or to put it another way: typical drunken boasting. A "Hey, I'll tell you what you have to do now"
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 18:09 utc | 55
RFK, Jr. has literally written a book about the danger of the bioweapons labs, and he focuses on the need to shut them down, in case anyone is wondering why the Mighty Wurlitzer has pulled out all the stops in their shrill and increasing hysterical attacks on Bobby.
They are afraid, they are very afraid.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 17 2024 18:09 utc | 56
The media here (EU land) spin it that he was suspected of coordinating chemical attacks against 404. Brazen reverse blaming. No mention of him investigating the biolabs (confirmed by Nuland) at all!
Posted by: Teraspol | Dec 17 2024 17:00 utc | 13
Yes, right, everywhere the same mantra. Heard though that he was investigating biological attacks on Russia (bird flue to destroy poultry and virus targeting Russian specific genes) for which the merdias said there was no evidence. None spoke about a terrorist attack, and only one said "assassination".
One request addressed to B.: please delete as soon as possible all trolls who will dare posting their harmful and stupid propaganda on this thread.
To all others: please, do not reply to those trolls.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 17 2024 18:14 utc | 57
One guy to oversee all three nuclear chemical and biological defense forces?
Russia has been focusing on missiles.
Russia understands very well why Slav genetics have been mapped for two decades.
The facilities in Ukraine represented a significant acceleration.
This event while significant is not a crisis.
The crisis will be when a virus turns up that has a particular affinity for Slav DNA.
Thats use it or lose it time.
The west will say a bear hibernated in a bat cave and thats where it originated.
Cross my heart hope to die.
Un plausible deniability.
Thats use it or lose it time.
No missiles shot at Russia.
Will Russia launch on a conspiracy theory?
Posted by: Fred | Dec 17 2024 18:15 utc | 58
I (and likely everybody here) realize that Russia holds itself to a much higher standard and won't do what we dream of, but it is still fun to dream :)
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 17 2024 18:15 utc | 59
Steady course in my postings for many moons has been an attempt to suss out the probability factors outlining the course of action by the leadership of the R.U.
Beginners and bottom-line is that each and every Oblast which has either an ethnic Russian and/or considerable plurality would axiomatically endow the people of those oblasts to hold referendums as has been the pattern to date. Itemized just a bit, that would logically include ALL oblasts east of the Dnieper AND also inclusive of those oblasts bordering on the Black Sea, most importantly the Russian city of Odessa.
Hardly any actual Ukrainian dialect people live in those areas, so the matter becomes unarguably moot.
Secondly, the semi-conditional surrender terms would establish a NovoUkrainia government amongst those oblasts where Ukrainian dialect Russian speakers would also have referendums as whether to become an independent country, similar to Belarus; a political entity which would closely coordinate diplomatic and defense standards with those of the R.U.
Galicia and nearby oblasts which are predominantly Uniate Catholic in their religion and culture, would become a micro-nation without a military, but their protection being guaranteed by NovoUkrainia, Belarus, the RU and POLAND. Polish people with family backgrounds would be enabled to recover their former land holdings, along with full citizenship. Also, when the Zionist Entity in Occupied Palestine is broken up by one means or another; those Khazarian refugees would be allowed and enabled to return to that statelet which would become their new "Pale of Settlement".
Internal security operatives would be evenly shared on a population/demographic basis amongst those three ethnicities. Rural areas would be strictly policed by those ethnicities who live in those regions, while conglomerated urban scenes would have tripartite internal security forces.
If unrest in that new hybrid entity would lead to serious outbreaks, the guarantor nations would have the right and empowerment to arrest and imprison the primary perpetrators and agitators.
Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 17 2024 18:16 utc | 60
I would like to see and read some valuable videos (link recommendations) and comments regarding the actual sightings of drones and UAPs (?) in the US. I am a far away resident foreigner not familiar with circumstances & reactions at the scene in the US.
Posted by: Gerhard | Dec 17 2024 16:45 utc | 10
I found this video by Garland Nixon, a seasoned investigator, to be helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVS0-slbl_U
Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 17 2024 18:18 utc | 61
Unfortunayely, I think Alieu is right. Putin won't react in a decisive way whatever the anglozionists do, until Russia will have either to surrender or go nuclear. Putin is a great politician in peacetime but not a war leader.
Posted by: Christian | Dec 17 2024 18:20 utc | 62
Does Russia, China, Iran, or North Korea have an equivalent to the Rand Corporation?
Or is it only the US that wants to continually "extend" or "weaken" (i.e. abuse, batter, betray, bully, etc.) other countries?
Posted by: Mark Mosby | Dec 17 2024 18:21 utc | 63
Like countless analysts, you too b, have failed to understand what NATO wanted out of Ukraine, and how Russia reacted to the RAND trap. A few points:
-Why did NATO ideologically prepare Ukraine for 8 years by instilling neo-nazi ideology in the population, but did nothing to prepare it industrially?
-Why was NATO so quick to send insurgents-friendly weapons to Ukraine but comparatively so slow to send heavy weaponry? (The NAFO meme of "Saint Javelin" is a reminder of this)
-Why were NATO propagandists so quick to write articles about who would be the successor of Zelensky? https://theconversation.com/ukraine-putins-desire-to-install-a-puppet-government-draws-from-the-bolshevik-playbook-178060
-Why did NATO have to send Boris Jonhson to Kiev to stop negotiations if all was according to plan and "to the last ukrainian" was already decided since the RAND policy paper?
The answer is that NATO had predicted and wanted Russia to fully occupy Ukraine. After the defeat of the URSS and the US in Afghanistan, and seeing how draining those occupations were, NATO wanted to reproduce it in Ukraine. "Quagmire" is a good word for describing those occupations, and NATO has used it a lot, but to use it for a WW1-style conflict? No, that is a remnant of the old script.
Instead of falling for this trap and having to fight insurgents for decades, Russia instead opted to kill them on the battlefield where they regroup themselves and can't hide.
Russia doesn't have to climb out of the RAND trap. They have already avoided it. All they have to do is win on the battlefield.
Posted by: Ythisah | Dec 17 2024 18:21 utc | 64
B : *** Should it [Russia} hit back with its whole might and destroy the 'decision making centers' in Kiev who are responsible for this incident? (Note: An accurate definition of 'decision centers' would include the embassies of the U.S. and Great Britain in Kiev.)***
No .... to hell with monkeys and organ grinders, focus on who owns their performance.
... so quit pretending that these relay offices in Kiev are important "decision centres", and obliterate TelAviv with zero warnings.
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 17 2024 18:21 utc | 65
@james
This is Ukrainian counter-propaganda. It was not Russia but Ukraine that used chemical weapons, as has been repeatedly proven and is available to the UN. But the Western narrative is Ukraine's propaganda claims to the contrary, promptly met with applause in the Western media.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 18:22 utc | 66
Putin is a great politician in peacetime but not a war leader.
Posted by: Christian | Dec 17 2024 18:20 utc | 62
###############
And yet, he is winning the biggest war since WW2 against the Golden Billion.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 18:26 utc | 67
The easiest "out" for Trump would have been simply to say on Jan. 20 that he was issuing an Executive Order that all US activities in Ukraine and all aid to it must cease (perhaps until such time as a Special Prosecutor has gotten to the bottom of the corruption in UKR involving US aid and weapons).
This of course leaves unexamined the question of whether US ISR contributions within NATO--arguably the most consequential NATO capability in support of UKR--would also cease. Depends on the rationale, one supposes. Unless Trump ends this publicly then any further strikes into Russia will still bear US fingerprints.
But Trump seems to have foregone the easiest option, and continues to make bold statements about "ending the war", with the Trump Admin somehow casting itself in the role of innocent bystander saddened by the slaughter. His second easiest out would be to take option one *after* Kiev rejects whatever he proposes for them.
Russia has already been very explicit in putting forward what now seems to be a very soft list of preconditions for negotiations even to begin. Waiving these, I think would only reinforce suspicions and fears of Russia's eagerness to settle.
Russia's best option (IMHO):
1. Propose that the 'negotiations' sideline the subject of Ukraine entirely and focus on the Dec. 21 "ultimata" on a European (now Eurasian) security architecture, given that the US and Russia ARE AT WAR, with Russian retaliation for multiple acts of war against it being at most days away.
2. Insist on a fact-finding stage where Trump's new team gets an opportunity to evaluate its own intel as well as Russia's picture of facts on the ground.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Dec 17 2024 18:29 utc | 68
@ wagelaborer
serach by Google for „drohnen schwärme amerika“ (don't translate the keywords)
you'll find similar reports about drones in 2020, exact same.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 18:30 utc | 69
@ wp007 | Dec 17 2024 18:22 utc | 66
yes, i know that, but thanks.. so much we are getting for news in the west is full on propaganda..
Posted by: james | Dec 17 2024 18:30 utc | 70
Much of the West's citizens know where the problem is, we're just not equipped to confront it.
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Dec 17 2024 17:09 utc | 17
Most of the posters on MoA seem to be from the west, and most comments are westerners advising Russia what to do. The disagreements flare between those who want to kill the puppets, and those who want to kill the puppet-masters. But no one seems to think that they have a chance to influence the puppet-masters who reside in the same countries as they do. They want Russia to do it.
Why don't westerners tell their own country's leaders what to do, instead?
Ha, ha, just kidding. As Tom says, we here in the "democratic" west know that we have absolutely NO influence over our rulers. They not only don't do what we want, they don't care what we want. And it is obvious from 500+ comments on some posts that we know that, and we want Russia to fix it for us.
Not going to happen. We have to do it ourselves.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 17 2024 18:33 utc | 71
We all want to see a knock-out blow by Mr. Putin.
I do not think we will get one. Only decisions from Russia that appear to be concessions, but, taken in from a larger perspective, show Russia in no hurry whatsoever.
Is this Russia's MO throughout its history? I would say yes.
Putin will negotiate to end the conflict with Trump, and it may appear that Russia ia giving up too much.
The stock market will soar. The crisis will be averted for a couple years until the end of his term when a new disaster will emerge with the same overhanded reaction from the central planners in the deep state.
They will continue this pattern because it keeps the strongman, reactionary figure off the hook and with plausible deniability, the same way Trulp avoided blame for Covid, even though he shut down the country, lined the elites pockets, and gave us warp-speed that has been disastrous for public health.
The erosion of the west will continue as we approach our new neo-fuedal servitude.
The people are stupid. What would be smart for heritage countries like China, Iran, Russia, and Japan to do now would be to distance themselves from the western rot.
Trump will frame it as a win. Putin will be tagged a loser.
But think of it this way: FDR sure looked like a winner and was one for 50 years after his disastrous policies.
But as history settles, we are able to reclaim the truth and to put traitors like him back in the proper light.
Putin will be venerated forever because he did the right thing in the moment and the wrong thing in the eyes of the world.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 17 2024 18:35 utc | 72
@Paul Damascene
Trump can't do anything really useful until he cleans out the Deep State (which is what he wants to do). He has to get control, and he didn't get it on Jan. 20.
Posted by: wp007 | Dec 17 2024 18:36 utc | 73
@ Comrade Simba
This Oreshnik missile would be a waste.
The Kremlin has promised to warn its Western partners in good time before deployment.
The Nazis can get to safety. A heart for Nazis.
Posted by: guest from franconia | Dec 17 2024 18:40 utc | 74
Russia needs to hit back hard on the Ukraine government, it obvious that these escalations will continue till at the very least Jan 21/25 and probably even after that. Russia has the opportunity here to hit Ukraine very hard so that the US has no options but to abandon it, a full and total decapitation strike on the Ukrainian government; Budanov, Zelensky, the parliament, the official offices of the state parties. Ukraine has become a puppet dictatorship, torch the puppet no one will know who is in charge or who to organize actual governance. Sure the US and keep directing the military remotely, but without the puppet on the ground for the canon fodder to visualize as their leader they will start to melt away and it shorten the war
Posted by: Kadath | Dec 17 2024 18:45 utc | 75
The question is also whether Russia will react to Ukraine or will react to those who nurture these actions namely the US empire. When Soleimani was assassinated by Trump (I know the president is merely ceremonial but seeing so many people actually attribute actual executive power I'm just naming the then-president), Iran assassinated a high ranking CIA operative in Afghanistan by downing his plane. Quid pro quo. With the current reformist Pezeshkian there initially was no reaction to a number of high profile assassinations but in the end the pressure mounted so high Iran directly attacked the mastermind, Israel, with a volley of missiles and the message was "well" received.
I doubt Russia will do a quid pro quo with the mastermind (US/UK) or an attack on it but instead launch some missiles against the executor, Ukraine... on not even on political bodies. Either way, a proper quid pro quo would easily result in MAD which I'm not particularly envying.
Posted by: xor | Dec 17 2024 18:50 utc | 76
[email protected] it's been rumored his wife and children also considered him a mosquito. No big loss right....just another dead Russian in the tall grass of the SlogMow.
Arf, arf, moving right along.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 17 2024 18:51 utc | 77
In retaliation for the assassination of Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov, Russia will be issuing another stern warning at the UNSC today.
While Russia conducts negotiations with the new terrorist democratic government in Damascus, Russian naval vessels that were stationed at Tartus have begun an extended cruise around the Mediterranean Sea, and the S-400 air defense system from Khmeimim Air Base is being returned to Moscow for maintenance.
Russia has no comment on the large-scale bombing of civilian targets in Southern Lebanon and Beirut by the Israeli Air Force.
Russia remains open to negotiations on Ukraine with our partners in the West.
Posted by: Vladimir Pussy | Dec 17 2024 18:52 utc | 78
You'd think that after all that time Charlie Brown would forget the ball and aim his kick at Lucy. Kick the smug shit out of her. There's something the Russians can grasp.
Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 17 2024 18:54 utc | 79
***and, so it seems the British and American embassies.
Posted by: The Busker | Dec 17 2024 17:19 utc | 23
The embassies are British and American soil. If attacked, a vindictive Biden response that seems not "weak" could represent an unwanted escalation game with morons.
I also think Oreshnik will not be used in Kiev. If targeting is in any manner not executed as well as Yuzmash, the advantage mystique will be squandered.
Posted by: frithguild | Dec 17 2024 18:55 utc | 80
At bare minimum, Russia, again should take out some NATO advisers and mercenaries in Kiev.
Posted by: HandSignals4TheBlind | Dec 17 2024 18:57 utc | 81
Russia know it has to solve the security threat.
Ukraine must be neutral.
Deep state says Ukraine must not be neutral.
Russia wont kill Trump.
The deep state will.
The only thing that could be negotiable is Russia providing funds for a Ukraine rebuild and agreements to provide Ukraine with energy. That would be painful for Russia but I think they would agree. Of course all funds entering Ukraine end up in the black hole of corruption.
The deep state will not agree to this.
The grinding attrition will continue. Ukraine will largely become a failed state offering little or no services to the people in Ukraine. The infusions of funds will continue distributed to those mounting force against Russia. The next task is Iran. Russia can wait. Syria sat on the backburner for 20 years.
Posted by: Ben | Dec 17 2024 19:03 utc | 82
Russia has no comment on the large-scale bombing of civilian targets in Southern Lebanon and Beirut by the Israeli Air Force.
Russia remains open to negotiations on Ukraine with our partners in the West.
Posted by: Vladimir Pussy | Dec 17 2024 18:52 utc | 78
#############
The obvious troll account doesn't seem to understand anything about politics.
Syria was never a Russian territory or protectorate. Russia went to Syria to fight ISIS which was stirring up trouble in the Caucasus. I've heard that Assad rebuffed attempts by Russia to establish a formal defensive agreement with Syria.
As much as what is happening in the Middle East is a tragedy, it is not Russia's or China's job to solve it.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 19:05 utc | 83
Following on the heels of the UHC CEO assassination there is a smorgasbord of follow-on possibilities that would have popular support in the West than are obvious simple asymmetrical strikes that Russia could pursue.
Engage hearts and minds for the win.
Posted by: too scents | Dec 17 2024 19:06 utc | 84
Russia has avoided resorting to assassinations and yet has been accused of mis-poisoning the insignificant Skipal and Navalny. Israel is the winner in massive, targeted and successful assassinations that triggerred total indifference in the west. The USA and Ukraine follow.
Maybe it is high for Russia to show its skills in eliminating many western parasites... I have my own list that I'll be glad to share with Russia.
Posted by: Virgile | Dec 17 2024 19:07 utc | 85
Posted by: frithguild | Dec 17 2024 18:55 utc | 80
##########
These silly calls to Oreshnik everything Ukrainian is almost as bad as the demands to nuke Kiev over the last 3 years.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 19:08 utc | 86
One of my favorite elements of propagandist narrative is the "Putin still calls the West "partners" part. Russian president and diplomatic core both stopped using that particular word for three years now. In countries with an actual diplomatic practice worth a damn it means something important.
Since you can't stand president Putin so much you lose the ability to listen or read, follow a single damn interview of any senior Russian diplomat for once you lazy deadbeats. USAID is wasted on you. Or don't, it's funnier that way.
Posted by: boneless | Dec 17 2024 19:08 utc | 87
No solution will last if the Americans do not give up their attitude of world hegemony and go for co-existence.
That would be a radical departure from more than a century of American attitude.
Posted by: webej | Dec 17 2024 19:09 utc | 88
Posted by: boneless | Dec 17 2024 19:08 utc | 87
One of my favorite elements of propagandist narrative is the "Putin still calls the West "partners" part. Russian president and diplomatic core both stopped using that particular word for three years now. In countries with an actual diplomatic practice worth a damn it means something important.
Not true at all...Even in the Carlson Interview Putin still calls the west partners - because they are for him - The Jewish-Neoliberal Trojan Horse he is...
Posted by: Larsbo | Dec 17 2024 19:17 utc | 89
Posted by: frithguild | Dec 17 2024 18:55 utc | 80
##########
These silly calls to Oreshnik everything Ukrainian is almost as bad as the demands to nuke Kiev over the last 3 years.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 19:08 utc | 86
Well, not everything. Just the decision making centers in Kiev. It seems very reasonable to me. And really that's the point of the hazelnut: nuclear damage at a precise location without the radiation. Surely you're not opposed to hazelnut on the SBU.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 17 2024 19:28 utc | 90
The questions are not difficult b. You either keep getting gaslit by your narcissist partner and continue as an enabler of bad behaviour, or you walk away. The only question is "what are you prepared to give up?" A warrior's self-awareness comes when he realizes he is called to death as a vocation. Fear of death and avoiding death through negotiation creates an internal contradiction and results in neurosis. The precondition of the true warrior is that he is already dead. The fight is indeed existential, but victory lies not in mere survival, but in the overcoming, which begins with the self: vincit qui se vincit.
Ich liebe diejenigen, die nicht wissen, wie man lebt, außer indem sie untergehen, denn sie sind es, die übergehen...
So, when sovereignty is at stake then you have two options: you either lose it by ceding it (either all at once or death by a thousand cuts) or you lose it going down fighting for it. The main difference is that the latter option is, by definition, the exercise of sovereignty.
That is the only option. Any poker player could tell you that.
Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 17 2024 19:30 utc | 91
Russia could kill Zelenski and Budanov. These people are easily replaced. Actors are cheap.
Russia could flatten Kiev. It does not solve anything.
Russia borders on fourteen countries, and when the Ukraine problem is solved the U.S. just organizes a color revolution in another neighboring country, or in Russia itself.
The problem is that the U.S. needs to come to its senses and become an acceptable citizen of the world.
This will be learned in the school of hard knocks. That is another league than exploding scooters.
Posted by: Passerby | Dec 17 2024 19:35 utc | 92
From Sputnik News: "The US State Department denies any involvement in the assassination"
Don't trust any report until it is denied...
Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Dec 17 2024 19:35 utc | 93
The problem is that the U.S. needs to come to its senses and become an acceptable citizen of the world.
This will be learned in the school of hard knocks. That is another league than exploding scooters.
Posted by: Passerby | Dec 17 2024 19:35
How does this learning happen?
Posted by: spudski | Dec 17 2024 19:44 utc | 94
Methinks that preparations were put in place over a few weeks before the Ukraine announcement was as made to create a sense of "imminent" justice .Destroy all biolabs remaining in Ukraine .Maximum effort so that Biden Blinken can be made obviously to blame for finishing off Ukraine...before Trump, then he can blame them too...and EU to suffer such a dislocation that USA is to blame for being in association with them that they must suffer too .
Posted by: Jo | Dec 17 2024 19:46 utc | 95
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 17 2024 19:28 utc | 90
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Still an escalation. Putin is dominating a war of attrition.
Such a tactical change would be like a gunslinger holstering his weapon to engage in a swordfight.
Thankfully, Russia and China understand patience and commitment. They are winning the future, there is little to be gained by compromising the present. The Chinese are ancient and think like an ancient power. The Russians are also senior actors. Both behave as though they are confident they will be around in some form 250 years from now.
The West behaves as though they will collapse in 50 years, which liberalism has made demographically possible.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 17 2024 19:49 utc | 96
Another point is that Russia rarely really responds in kind.
Here's a list on top of my mind where Russia or its 'identity' was attacked with no harsh reaction in kind:
(Correct me if the response was harsher than stated)
Near the start of the Russian military operation in Syria, Daesh bombed a civilian plane where everyone died and which likely had Turkey as the mastermind behind it. There were some bombing raids on Daesh but I don't recall if it was on Turkish assets. The Kurd-Turkey "tanker pipeline" destruction was later if I recall. Either way, the response was not 'in kind'.
When Turkey downed a Russian frogfoot killing both airmen the reaction was the Kurd-Turkey "tanker pipeline" destruction but no actual quid pro quo.
UN ambassador Vitaly Churkin who died (20 February 2017) during a short period when many other higher ranking Russians died of "natural causes" didn't provoke any reprisals to my knowledge.
When Israel provoked the downing of a Russian SIGINT plane over the Mediterranean sea in front Latakia (18 Sept 2018) killing all its personal, there was no reprisal to my knowledge.
The attack on the Moskova didn't seem to have a reaction in kind. But one must bare in mind that the success of the Huthi's, for example a British destroyer had to leave the Red sea in the early days after taking damage, might also be attributable to Russian intel.
The assassinations of Dugina and Vladlen didn't really provoke a Russian reaction to my knowledge.
The bombing of the Kerch bridge provoked some attacks on dual use Ukrainian infrastructure but that was it.
The assassination of the Wagner top didn't provoke a Russian reaction but the previous actions committed by them might warrant that.
The Krokus hall terrorist attack would show us the actual perpetrators getting some rough handling and there were some attacks on dual use Ukrainian infrastructure but that was it if I recall well.
I think the Russian leadership accepts these incidents and events as sacrifices that need to be made. Furthermore despite all what has happened to it, where it's attacked on all fronts by most of NATO, Russia's military potency has vastly increased as did its diplomatic and economic prowess.
Posted by: xor | Dec 17 2024 19:52 utc | 97
First, does the general's death stop the work Russia's conducting on the biowarfare labs? No, that work will continue and the general and his aide become casualties of the war against the Outlaw US Empire, which is what the SMO is in reality as yesterday's defense board meeting confirmed for those who read/listened to Putin and Belousov's words.
Second, the terrorist act exposed valuable Ukie/NATO assets within Moscow which will prompt better FSB, related agencies and Russian public awareness of a very serious problem that must be solved.
Third, the only suitable retaliation is forcing NATO's capitulation.
Fourth, Nato's capitulation negates all problems associated with negotiations.
Fifth, IMO it was made very clear yesterday that Russia's plan is to force NATO Capitulation. Caveat: NATO Capitulation doesn't automatically mean defeat of the Outlaw US Empire; that's merely one victorious battle in a much wider war.
Expectations: Russia will not mount a specific "revenge" attack. Russia will continue the SMO as it has planned. As for attacking biowarfare labs, Oreshnik is the perfect tool since it incinerates all things in the target, which is what you want to do to biological agents. So, if Oreshnik is to be employed, it will be used on NATO's remaining biolabs within Ukraine.
From Sputnik News: "The US State Department denies any involvement in the assassination."
Don't trust any report until it is denied...
Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Dec 17 2024 19:35 utc | 93
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Never trust the denial of a lair.
Posted by: Ed | Dec 17 2024 19:54 utc | 99
*** Surely you're not opposed to hazelnut on the SBU.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 17 2024 19:28 utc | 90
Nobody here is, and don't call me Shirley
Posted by: frithguild | Dec 17 2024 19:57 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Orechnik straight up the Kiev ministry of defense building.
No pre announcement, no comment afterward.
Posted by: comrade simba | Dec 17 2024 16:34 utc | 1