To Prolong The War In Ukraine U.S. Allows ATACMS Use On Russia
President Joe Biden, or whoever is thinking for him, is doing his best to make peace in Ukraine less likely:
President Joe Biden has authorized Ukraine to use U.S.-supplied missiles to strike deeper inside Russia, easing limitations on the longer range weapons ..
...
Putin has warned that Moscow could provide long-range weapons to others to strike Western targets if NATO allies allow Ukraine to use their arms to attack Russian territory.
...
The longer-range missiles are likely to be used in response to North Korea’s decision to support Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, according to one of the people familiar with the development.
The ATACMS missiles Ukraine had so far been allowed to fire, mostly against Crimea, have been carriers of cluster ammunition with a reach of some 160 kilometer.
We do not know yet if the new authorized use for ATACMS munition on targets within Russia is only relevant for the cluster ammunition missile type or for high explosive ATACMS missiles with a reach of 300 kilometer.
However, the Russian President Vladimir Putin has correctly pointed out that ANY use of ATACMS requires the involvement of NATO (U.S/UK) assets for acquiring the targeting data and for planing and programming the missile's mission.
Any use of ATACMS onto Russian proper is thus an act of war by NATO against the Russian Federation. The Russian response to such will be appropriate but may well surface in a theater far from Ukraine.
The military usefulness of ATACMS attacks on Russia is in doubt:
The overall supply of ATACMS missiles is short, so U.S. officials in the past have questioned whether they could give Ukraine enough to make a difference.
The ostensible reason for allowing the use of ATACMS is the defense of the Ukrainian troops which have invaded the Kursk oblast of Russia.
During that invasion the Ukrainian units went further into Russia than their usual 20 kilometer deep artillery cover allowed for. To further support them HIMARS missile launchers with GMLRS missiles and a reach of 70 kilometer were pulled to the front. Only a few of them survived their service near the Russian border. During August and September of 2024 the Russian forces wacked six or seven of those. (Just today another was reported to have been destroyed.)
ATACMS are no wonder weapons. The running tally of the Russian ministry of defense reports lists 235 successful interceptions of ATACMS missiles.
Using ATACMS to support the Ukrainian bridgehead in Kursk will make it slightly more difficult for Russia to eliminate the incursion. Russia has said that it will not negotiate until Ukrainian troops have left its country. To prolong the existence of the bridgehead will thus prevent a fast peace agreement which president-elect Donald Trump may have in mind.
To further argue for the deployment of ATACMS against Russia the Biden administration is pointing to the North Korean bogeyman:
North Korea has provided thousands of troops to Russia to help Moscow try to claw back land in the Kursk border region that Ukraine seized this year. ..As many as 12,000 North Korean troops have been sent to Russia, according to U.S., South Korean and Ukrainian assessments.
'Assessments' are analyst estimates for which there is no evidence.
Nothing has been shown that would provide that there are any North Korean soldiers in Russia. The claim that a division sized contingent of North Korean soldiers is preparing to fight in the Kursk region was made by Ukraine only after a U.S. think-tank had proposed to use it as an item of larger propaganda campaign.
Russia has sufficient forces to eliminate the Ukrainian troops on its ground. It is highly doubtful that any Russian command would agree to include North Korean units in any Russian operation. Thus the 'North Korean soldiers' propaganda claim continues to be just that.
The incoming President Donald Trump has publicly said that he will seek to end the war in Ukraine as soon as possible. The Biden administration has not only helped to start that war but is seeking to prolong it as long as possible.
Militarily the use of ATACMS against targets in Russia will not provide any significant advantage to the Ukrainian forces. There is no way left for them to sustain or win in this war. Their defeat is inevitable.
But allowing the use of ATACMS against Russia will escalate the war into a new dimension. It will prolong the path to any peace agreement. This to the sole benefit of those who are politically and financially invested in this war.
Posted by b on November 18, 2024 at 17:15 UTC | Permalink
next page »Video in Slovak🇸🇰👉🇺🇸🏴☠️ Prime Minister of Slovakia Robert Fico:
As the Prime Minister of the Slovak Republic, I categorically disagree with the decision of US President Biden to authorize the use of American long-range missiles against targets in the territory of the Russian Federation with the clear aim of completely disrupting or delaying peace negotiations.
I have instructed both the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Slovak Republic, Mr. Blanar, and the Minister of Defense of the Slovak Republic, Mr. Kalinak, not to support this American decision in any international forum or in any way. This is an unprecedented escalation of tension. This decision shatters hopes for the beginning of any peace negotiations and an end to the mutual killing of Slavs in Ukraine.
It is surprising how quickly some EU countries welcomed the bellicose move by the US. This is simply confirmation that the EU is unable to formulate fundamental foreign policy positions and that the West wants to continue the war in Ukraine at any cost
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/134400
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 18 2024 17:38 utc | 2
The JASSM-ER variant has an extended range of "greater than 500 miles".
Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 18 2024 17:44 utc | 3
Fake news by nyt. And another fake news about North-Koreans.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 17:44 utc | 4
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2024 17:27 utc | 1
From the "protocols"?
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 17:47 utc | 5
The JASSM-ER variant has an extended range of "greater than 500 miles".
Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 18 2024 17:44 utc | 3
It would be more useful to give the ranges of the Kinzhal, Onyx, Zircon, Avangard, Poseidon and Burevetsnik.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 17:50 utc | 6
Officially confirmed this news or a deep state media manipulation? The F-16's will have to fly very close to recognized Russian territory in order to airlaunch these missiles for maximum range (Moscow and a bit beyond).
Posted by: Teraspol | Nov 18 2024 17:58 utc | 7
Has official Fashington confirmed the rumours' veracity?
If not, this "news" belongs to the same category as last week's "phone call between Putin and Trump"...
Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Nov 18 2024 17:59 utc | 8
In a recent incident, the USS Abraham Lincoln, along with two sister ships, came under a massive drone and missile attack by the Houthis. While all drones were intercepted, rockets managed to strike both the Abraham Lincoln and one of the other ships. The Abraham Lincoln reportedly limping back to San Diego, raising serious questions about how the Houthis acquired the precise targeting data needed to locate and hit such heavily defended vessels.
Speculation suggests advanced satellite intelligence, potentially provided by Russia and relayed through Iran, was used to guide the attack
Could this be America sending a signal
All missiles into Russia need NATO operatives and a real time guidance to the targets, have we gone up the escalation ladder.
Those mad Jews in the USA just like the right wing loonies in Israel are batshit crazy.
They started WW1 and WW2 the next war will be started by them
Jews now only control America and Western Europe, with the fall of the Soviet Union they lost control of Russia. Their project in Ukraine has now completely failed. They will not make much progress in controlling China.
Many of the many of them in Isreal think that it is time for the Messiah to come. Destroying the whole world are the conditions because the antichrist has to come first. These are on the edge of the Jewish religion in Israel but they have pulled in huge amount of money from Jewish oligarchs in the West who funded Israel. The successful Trump campaign only succeeded via Jewish funding. The annexation of Gaza and the West Bank is coming soon.
The world is slowly beginning to realise that the holocaust was highly exaggerated and although there was a genocide, there was no large scale industrial killing of the Jews. They died through starvation and disease but this was a great crime nevertheless they were not no such thing as Gas Chambers. What existed crematorium. It is estimated that less than 1 million Jews died. From this was spun the holocaust story.. the Jews have always ruled Europe. Hitler knew this they ran Germany under the Kaiser and controlled everything like they do now in the United States when hyper inflation and the defeat in World War I hit Germany the people began to wake up, Hitler had the courage to tell them how it was, how did Jews control the United Kingdom? France and America? They escalated the war till millions died the victors controlledby the Jews made Hitler the bogeyman. The Jews have manufactured the history and control the media and set the narrative, once people realise this they can start the search for the truth which is there you only have to find it.
Posted by: Norman St Clare | Nov 18 2024 18:02 utc | 9
Prolonging the war for both rotten domestic and international rationales is an up-to-date great fit for American foreign pursuits--a twenty year off ramp a la Afghanistan is no hill for a criminal enterprise like the US government. Slow walking Russian and Ukrainian suffering is Russia's own plan. A small war should have happened and could have happened. Easily. Ukraine or Vietnam? What's the difference? None.
Posted by: elmagnostic | Nov 18 2024 18:04 utc | 10
Posted by: elmagnostic | Nov 18 2024 18:04 utc | 10
Fuck off agent provocateur!
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 18:07 utc | 11
No confirmation so far, while bidong is lost in the rain forest.
Posted by: nook | Nov 18 2024 18:07 utc | 12
A contrarian such as myself, sees Biden’s latest faux pas as freeing up Trump’s ability to end the war quickly, as he has so long promised. Following recent amicable meetings with both Biden and Zylinski, such an action could be interpreted by Trump as treachery, thus removing any inclination to a charitable negotiated settlement in favor of immediate cut of of aid to Ukraine and full support of Russia’s stated terms.
Posted by: Chazz | Nov 18 2024 18:10 utc | 13
If North Korean troops were in Russia (Kursk region) fighting against Ukrainian troops, I imagine there would be numerous videos posted online verifying it... seeing as everybody and their dog has smartphones and access to social media these days.
So where are these videos? Has anyone seen any? If so, please provide links. Or is asking for empirical evidence too much to ask? Thank you.
Posted by: Mark Mosby | Nov 18 2024 18:14 utc | 14
@Mark Mosby | Nov 18 2024 18:14 utc | 14
The North Korean Troops are so dangerous, because they have been fitted with invisibility cloaks... Everybody, that is MSM and intelligence services, who would never lie to us, know that they are there, but still we can't see them...
Posted by: Ronald Portier | Nov 18 2024 18:20 utc | 15
The OP is pretty good. It does forget that Biden is a lame duck in the strictest sense, we know who his successor will be. That means Trump's silence on this is quite significant, an action. Choosing silence is an action. As to the efficacy of any political intervention by Trump? Biden's command over Senate Democrats is slipping and of course Trump acolyte Johnson has a House majority. It is not at all clear that Trump's political intervention is guaranteed to fail...if he was interested in a peace in Ukraine.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 18 2024 18:24 utc | 16
Re: North Korean troops in the Kursk Oblast ... makes sense to me. This provides at least two 'positives' for Russia/North Korea. One being the demonstrations to the US and South Korea that the recently signed defensive pact between Russia and N. Korea is more than 'paper rattling'. It shows that both nations are serious about assisting the other in case of attack. Seoul is very vulnerable to a N. Korean attack without a Russian subtext, more so with one. Second, it gives N. Korea something that very few nations forces have: battle experience. I do not count the US beating the crap out of sandal-wearing tribesmen (who still nonetheless won) as battle hardened. The US hasn't faced a serious battlefield enemy since WW2. This is invaluable experience for N. Korea's troops as there is a very real chance of hostilities breaking out on the Korean peninsula due to US belligerence. Drills with US and other allied forces are valuable, but regardless, it does not constitute real battle experience against a peer level enemy. So, I tend to believe that there are indeed N. Korean troops in the Kursk Oblast. They will stay and fight there until the Oblast is free of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. They will not participate in any offensive action in the Ukraine itself as that is outside the scope of the treaty they signed.
Posted by: rgl | Nov 18 2024 18:29 utc | 17
The dangers the Americans, Brits, French, and Germans face would usually guarantee that no attacks would take place. With the current crop of western leaders, however, we can only expect the worst. If Russia were to announce that they were sending a couple of hundred anti-ship missiles and advisors to the Houthis, perhaps our leaders would pause for thought. I think a real threat should be made.
Posted by: Muckraker | Nov 18 2024 18:32 utc | 18
The dangers the Americans, Brits, French, and Germans face would usually guarantee that no attacks would take place. With the current crop of western leaders, however, we can only expect the worst. If Russia were to announce that they were sending a couple of hundred anti-ship missiles and advisors to the Houthis, perhaps our leaders would pause for thought. I think a real threat should be made.
Posted by: Muckraker | Nov 18 2024 18:32 utc | 19
thanks b...
i wish the ''usa on the world stage'' nightmare was over already, but alas it continues on...
Posted by: james | Nov 18 2024 18:39 utc | 20
Lots and lots of fake news, until it is an official announcement or comes out of Biden's mouth its just made up bullshit. I see the European press rapidly walking back their statement on this. Just the usual establishment BS trying to put road blocks between Trump and ending a very lucrative war with lots of secrets that the establishment do not want to see openly scrutinized.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Nov 18 2024 18:41 utc | 21
Further escalation would certainly help provide cover for the ongoing excess death and (intentionally harmful) vax Injury situation across the west. Now that the theatre of the US election is over. Ed died reckons at minimum 17million dead, others think closer to 50, and rising. The global cull and distracting the population from the cause is all that matters to the international cabal.
Posted by: Michael freepress.ie | Nov 18 2024 18:42 utc | 22
Good, let these assholes start WW3. All I ask is a 1 megaton ground burst on DC and Jerusalem to start it so I can go happy. I'm amazed Putin has had this much restraint, me I would have leveled a few sites in Europe and the US by now to make a REAL FAFO point....
Posted by: SoCoRuss | Nov 18 2024 18:42 utc | 23
Thx arch Bargle for those honest words that nobody dares to refute, because they cannot be refuted. The world will bend the knee and call them “ the deep state “ but I’m glad you call them what they are filthy jews, because the one thing a jew hates is being called a jew, call them anything but that. Danka Arch
Posted by: William | Nov 18 2024 18:43 utc | 24
Well, Trump was never going to be able to end the war in 24 hours, so Biden may have just given him a face-saving out. Trump can now say that ending the war may take a little longer now that Biden has sabotaged any quick peace deal.
Posted by: GioCon | Nov 18 2024 18:45 utc | 25
ATACMS have been trying to strike Crimea and Russia for months to the tune of 200+ downed and 20+ Himars launchers and Nato crews struck in Sumy. The entire thing is gaslighting, but political escalation nevertheless by desperate Blinken, Biden and eurovassals etc.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 18 2024 18:45 utc | 26
14. Maybe the Russians are planning to displace the Western Ukrainians with a settler population from N Korean. They need the wheat and Russia needs the buffer. Kinda makes sense- symbiotic. The Koreans are Mongolian descent. The Mongolian s took Kiev/Ukraine hundreds of years ago and now they are back. That narrative seems to work for the Israelis.
Posted by: Cavery | Nov 18 2024 18:50 utc | 27
The objective of this statement (so far) is also leaving it somewhat up to the ukrainean leaderrship whether or not to escalate in such a way. While one may think it is automatically assumed they WILL escalate, maybe it is not so simple.
With this statement Biden (Blinken) is essentially giving Ukraine the option to escalate or try manouvre towards negotiations. Because this will not chante the battlefield course in any case. However, it WILL set out the signal that the war will go on.
At the same time there is talk about ELECTIONS (!!) in MAy? Lots of noise these days. Clearly, much of this noise is made to give the ongoing administration as much headache as possible.
Nothing has changed so far. It only will change once a long-distance missile is launched. At that point, it is up to Russia how to answer. What if Russia declares that nothing but unconditional surrender will suffice? Or what if one of the many emnemies of USA gets advanced technology.
Another thoughtless act by USA leadership and possibly the worst of all choices they have..
Posted by: Norwegian Pawn | Nov 18 2024 18:51 utc | 28
In late 1944, Canada was bleeding men in Italy and France and needed to find 15,000 more riflemen to replace losses or be forced to pull out. That seemed odd given that there were 1.1 million Canadian troops on paper. However after deducting the troops in the Navy and Air Force and the Zombies who were drafted but did not volunteer to go overseas, Canada could not find the 15,000 men voluntarily. Because of rules in Russia specifying conscripts are stationed within Russia, would Russia like Canada in WW2 have a hard time finding tens of thousands of men to replace losses this year despite a military the size of 1.5 million? Is that why they have picked the go slow approach?
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 18:51 utc | 29
The pushback from opposition Republicans is remarkably muted. Not even the threat of an angry letter...
Posted by: chunga | Nov 18 2024 18:51 utc | 30
Posted by: Norman St Clare | Nov 18 2024 18:02 utc | 9
In a recent incident, the USS Abraham Lincoln, along with two sister ships, came under a massive drone and missile attack by the Houthis. While all drones were intercepted, rockets managed to strike both the Abraham Lincoln and one of the other ships. The Abraham Lincoln reportedly limping back to San Diego, raising serious questions about how the Houthis acquired the precise targeting data needed to locate and hit such heavily defended vessels.
*************
Is there a reliable source about that information?
Posted by: scc | Nov 18 2024 18:56 utc | 31
I don't see Trump ending the war in Ukraine, if anything I think he'll exacerbate it - I'm pretty sure one of his men, Musk, is allowing Nato/Ukrainians access to his StarLink satellites. Sure Trump said he could end the war in a day - but I doubt he'll want to make anymore enemies than he already has, though he's sure to piss a few more folk of as POTUS.
Putin needs to make a statement in the form of a strike against those Nato allies that will/are going to be aiding the Ukrainians to use these missiles to strike Russian soil - I read that Biden only gave permission to strike the Kursk region - but I suspect that other Russian regions will be struck.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 18 2024 18:57 utc | 32
I take a contrarian view. The Blob knows they've lost. They need an agreement upon which they can declare victory. Rump Ukie will be left with a degraded military, no air force or heavy weapons, just ak's and mines and barbed wire, EXCEPT the small stockpile of medium missiles which becomes a threat in being.
The Russians wants these gone. The Blob is complying to get their agreement. They operate these missiles, and they will all land and destroy offensive cow pastures. Trump likely approves. He wants the agreement, too. I think we're closing in on it. If the nazis want to die some more, fine, but the outcome is set.
Posted by: seer | Nov 18 2024 19:00 utc | 33
https://t.me/designersmil/9521
Regarding permission to strike at rear areas. Let us recall our old post again https://t.me/designersmil/8054All permissions will be given, all strikes against Russia will be approved. Washington believes that in this way it will be able to destroy our country, like boiling a frog - slowly adding fire
This is happening because the West is not risking anything
@Propagandist's Notebook
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 18 2024 19:01 utc | 34
Many people would like to believe that Trump will seek a quick end to the Ukraine conflict.
But then there is this from Mike Walz, presumptive National Security Advisor in Trump's cabinet, in an interview on National Public Radio, when asked how Trump could end the war:
“First and foremost, you would enforce the actual energy sanctions on Russia. Russia is essentially a gas station with nukes. Putin is selling more oil and gas now than he did prewar through China and Russia. And you couple that with unleashing our energy, lifting our LNG ban, and his economy and his war machine will dry up very quickly,” Waltz said. “So I think that will get Putin to the table. We have leverage, like taking the handcuffs off of the long-range weapons we provided Ukraine as well. And then, of course, I think we have plenty of leverage with Zelensky to get them to the table.”
So who are you going to believe? Donald Trump, or your own lying eyes?
And spoken as if the US had not already applied every available sanction against Russia's economy. And as if Zelensky has any leverage to apply. Well I guess he could apply the leverage of his famous penis, but at the risk of a traumatic rupture of the erectile vasculature. Still, I'd like to see it. Well, not see it, but hear about it later.
BTW, I love the 'Russia is a gas station with nukes' remark. Which is cribbed from Joe Biden. Who cribbed it from John McCain. Who was a dyed-in-the-wool neoconservative war hawk.
Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 18 2024 19:03 utc | 35
Chazz @ 13
an action could be interpreted by Trump as treachery, thus removing any inclination to a charitable negotiated settlement in favor of immediate cut of of aid to Ukraine and full support of Russia’s stated terms.
No treachery. Trump and Biden had a long amicable meeting couple of days back. As Caitlin Johnstone said, actors hold hands and take a bow after the show is over. I doubt Biden stabbed Trump in the back the next day, rather they discussed the missile authorization and Trump signed off on it.
If it's true. As they say, a lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on, but this one has gone round the world several times now, you would think the truth would be dressed and out the door by now refuting it. They've been hankering and floating missiles inside Russia for over a year, fearlessly like they have everything else in the escalation. I doubt the warmongers want to disappoint me, I bet it's real.
I don't think the Whitehouse has officially announced much of the escalation, they float, fake concern, retreat, rumor, rah rah, then it just happens of its own due course as if it was inevitable and the most natural thing in the world. They pull us along on a string like a toy choo-choo.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 19:13 utc | 36
"Opinion
Joe Biden’s last-gasp missile decision is momentous for Ukraine – but Putin will retaliate
Simon Tisdall"
Quick tone shift at the Guardian. This twisted old fruit is a pretty good guide to the delusions of the Imperialists. Sounds like, on some level, they are appropriately frightened by the possible outcome of this latest nutty move toward nuclear war.
Be afraid, Imperialism, be very afraid.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 18 2024 19:15 utc | 37
Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 18 2024 19:03 utc | 35
.
.
Trump will have snarling attack dogs in those spots by definition. What he does is still unclear though. He isn't a mindless neocon, but may triangulate off such. These wars will be ended by those who started them, and he wants them ended imo.
Posted by: seer | Nov 18 2024 19:16 utc | 38
I have all kinds of fascinating technical minutiae on missiles and warheads to bore everyone with, and plenty of armchair speculation on when/where, how useful/useless and why or why not.
In the end, the only thing that will matter is Russia's response after the first few fantasy US strikes. Waiting... waiting.... ZZzzzz...
A bit off topic but if anyone is interested in what a Russian has to say about Russia;
https://www.youtube.com/c/elifromrussia
Posted by: saner | Nov 18 2024 19:17 utc | 40
Posted by: Ronald Portier | Nov 18 2024 18:20 utc | 15
Excellent!!!
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 19:18 utc | 41
I am reading Reuters is supporting one of the thoughts I shared last night about this
The U.S. decision to authorise long-range Ukrainian strikes could help Kyiv defend the foothold in Russia's Kursk region that it seized as leverage in any war talks, but may come too late to change the course of the war, analysts said.
What I wrote last night
In support of
"
So I am predicting a mid to large scale attack on nuclear power plant within the week.
Posted by: WJ | Nov 18 2024 3:17 utc | 251
"
Thanks!
That is the one in the Kursk region and all MSM drivel points there
Z wants a supportive negotiation position and maybe the threat is his negotiating position
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 18 2024 19:23 utc | 42
In his vindictiveness, Dementia Joe may have authorised Kiev's use of ATACMs against targets in Russia - but who would be prepared to provide Kiev with the satellite data that the missiles need to lock onto their targets?
If the Pentagon won't provide the data - and the US armed forces may be very wary of getting involved in a conflict with a military peer (and one already battle-hardened) - then Biden's decision will be nothing more than a last desperate attempt by a cynical administration to hamstring the incoming Trump govt and prevent it from carrying out its agenda.
The main problem though is that other parties like the CIA, MI6 and their allies may have access to that data and would not hesitate to supply that information to Kiev if they think they can put the blame on Donald Trump as POTUS for their actions. Moscow would have to be very careful in its investigations as to who would be aiding and guiding Kiev if the Ukrainians were rash enough to fire any such missiles.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 18 2024 19:24 utc | 43
Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 18 2024 19:03 utc | 35
Walz is a complete moron. Gas station, it was first said by Obama, adding that Russia is a second grade country. LOL!
Western economy is already not in good shape to say the least. A ban on gas and oil from Russia will bring the European empire to the ground.
One carrier hit by the Houthis already headed to the yankeeland. Imagine one such carrier sent to the bottom. The image of the yankeeland would also go to the bottom.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 19:26 utc | 44
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 18 2024 19:23 utc | 42
Blabalabla... Nonsense.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 19:27 utc | 45
Fake news by nyt. And another fake news about North-Koreans.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 17:44 utc | 4
and fake news about Putin Trump phone call. So much fake news.
Biden is in the Amazon rain forest.
Posted by: UWDude | Nov 18 2024 19:29 utc | 46
https://t.me/Viktor_Murakhovskiy/709
As I have written many times, the main reason for the rejection of automated troop control systems (ATCS) is the impossibility of reporting false information to the top. This was the case with the introduction of the "Maneuver" ACS, the same thing happened with the "Sozvedie-M2" and "Andromeda" ACS. Now there is not even a hint of the introduction of ACS in the troops.When every soldier on the battlefield, every combat and support vehicle, is actually displayed on the situation map, then why the hell do the Supreme Commander and the Chief of the General Staff need extra people in the structures responsible for the correct situation?
This data, in addition to everything else, excludes false information about losses. Only what is really lost instantly becomes known throughout the entire vertical of command.
It seems that our efforts to introduce the correct self-awareness of the military will not bring any benefit. Until man is replaced by automation.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 18 2024 19:32 utc | 47
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 18:51 utc | 29
Comparing Russia with Canada... LOL!!! Russia don't need to mobilise as they have enough volunteers and the attrition strategy mininises the casualties. Now professionnal are fighting in several places mobilised Ukrainians with no experience and no will to fight.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 19:33 utc | 48
Posted by: PavewayIV | Nov 18 2024 19:16 utc | 39
Yo!
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 18 2024 19:33 utc | 49
I'm reminded of what a friend so often says when it comes to all of this WW3 nuke talk, "I'm just waiting for the flash".
Posted by: MoT | Nov 18 2024 19:34 utc | 50
Clever Dog @ 35
BTW, I love the 'Russia is a gas station with nukes' remark. Which is cribbed from Joe Biden. Who cribbed it from John McCain.
I always thought, "who would ever fuck with a gas station with nukes?" Really, think about, a simple and powerful enemy, best leave it be. McCain would have been that idiot kid who decided to whack a hornets nest with a stick, I actually saw that once, I must have been 12, I ran as fast as I could as soon as I saw him pick up the stick.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 19:34 utc | 51
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 18 2024 19:24 utc | 43
The only viable target are AD systems. Satellites are not effective identifying those. And the ATACMS has long since lost the Wunderwaffe luster, as they were already used to full potential for months with diminishing return.
Nato can't fly AWACS in a manner that can see anything else than Crimea or Kherson region and peninsula. In Kursk they don't have any visibility.
I will call BS on anyone claiming it can help maintaining the Kursk bridgehead. The only game in town for Nato is a static target to create a media splash or terrorism, this is where the viable theory of Kursk NPP strike comes in.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 18 2024 19:34 utc | 52
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 19:33 utc | 48
But how many troops has Russia lost so far this year in dead and wounded? It could be 100,000. That's hard to replace if a large number of troops can't be sent outside of Russia.
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 19:38 utc | 53
and fake news about Putin Trump phone call. So much fake news.
Biden is in the Amazon rain forest.
Posted by: UWDude | Nov 18 2024 19:29 utc | 46
And fake news about the presence of North-Koreans in Kursk.
Biden is ill from Alzheimer and Parkinson. So he has no cognitive ability to be president and to take any decision to start ww3. Fake news is the last weapon left to the neocons. Russia is not falling for it.
The worst warmonger of them all is Boris Johnson. Spitting one fake news after one another. Saying for isntace that Russia killed thousands of innocent civilians in Ukraine. The mark of a professional liar.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 19:39 utc | 54
Easily. Ukraine or Vietnam? What's the difference? None.
Posted by: elmagnostic | Nov 18 2024 18:04 utc | 10
time, technology, culture, cultural difference between warring parties, amount of time war has been going on...
I could go on and on and on and on, but pearls before swine.
Posted by: UWDude | Nov 18 2024 19:40 utc | 55
Ukraine may as well launch those missiles against it's own power plants. When Russia retaliates, the result will be the same.
Posted by: ian | Nov 18 2024 19:44 utc | 56
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 19:38 utc | 53
> But how many troops has Russia lost so far this year in dead and wounded? It could be 100,000.
> That's hard to replace if a large number of troops can't be sent outside of Russia.
Russia does not have lots of troops nor it has a need to send large number of troops outside its territory.
Don't forget that most of the frontline is within Russian territory: Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions are part of Russia.
Posted by: hopehely | Nov 18 2024 19:47 utc | 57
My god what a thread of total trash everything from the laRouche hasbara front to some of the sketchiest unsubstantiated nonsense permeates this thread.
Need trolls & dickhead genocide supporters be reminded that everytime someone has bothered to investigate the mindless "its all the jews fault" posters, the miscreant turns out to be some pimply faced zionist's kid upset that no-one pays him/her any attention.
The rest of it, posts of nonsense conspiracies that have been discredited for lack of actual y'know proof since the year dot, belongs in a limited hangout asylum for the insane where the sullivan creature is the star trusty.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 18 2024 19:48 utc | 58
unimperator @ 52
I will call BS on anyone claiming it can help maintaining the Kursk bridgehead. The only game in town for Nato is a static target to create a media splash or terrorism, this is where the viable theory of Kursk NPP strike comes in.
There's a lot of defense industry in the western part of Russia, IMO that's the actual target. Seems lots of little labs making very sophisticated specialized parts especially around Moscow. Makes sense, highly paid skilled metrosexual engineers don't want to live in Perm or Irkutsk.
NATO gets there in baby steps figuring no one will notice, turn the SMO around on Russia, "just another normal day in the SMO for the both of us". Onward to the next escalation. This time we will see, I've no idea what Russia will do. If I was Putin I'd invite 100,000 DPRK troops to fight in Kursk, fuck it, right?
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 19:51 utc | 59
Biden wants the ATACMS to stimulate Russia to attack and kill American soldiers stationed in or near Ukraine, triggering popular consent for sending more arms and soldiers to fight Russia in Eastern Ukraine. Biden hopes Russia will kill American soldiers in order to prolong and escalate the war. A war on the brink of ending with a Russian victory. That is the kind of pig Biden is and how gullible Americans are.
Posted by: Keme | Nov 18 2024 19:54 utc | 60
To prolong the war the West can shorten inches or add extra days to each month in the calendar.
Otherwise the curtain has been drawn on the final act and no amount of spite is going to change the ending.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2024 19:58 utc | 61
Naive @ 55
The worst warmonger of them all is Boris Johnson. Spitting one fake news after one another. Saying for isntace that Russia killed thousands of innocent civilians in Ukraine. The mark of a professional liar.
He's paid by the word. Johnson's gift is that he makes the conviction seem so natural.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 19:59 utc | 62
Don't forget that most of the frontline is within Russian territory: Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions are part of Russia.
Posted by: hopehely | Nov 18 2024 19:47 utc | 58
Do those places count as Russia for conscription rules?
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 20:01 utc | 63
So any actual confirmation of NK personnel in the Ukraine theater?
Bar western media keep saying it as holy writ?
Posted by: jpc | Nov 18 2024 20:01 utc | 64
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 19:59 utc | 63
Surely you mean he makes the lies seem so natural?
Posted by: jpc | Nov 18 2024 20:03 utc | 65
We have done everything to bring the Russian people under the yoke of the Jewish power, and ultimately compelled them to fall on their knees before us.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2024 17:27 utc | 1
---
The rising East has no shared cultural heritage that the Jews can leverage. Their destiny is to become a footnote in Asian history.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2024 20:08 utc | 66
Earlier this week, Harvard economist Jason Furman, a former adviser to President Barack Obama, dismissed Russia to The New York Times as “basically a big gas station,” saying the country was “incredibly unimportant in the global economy except for oil and gas.” Bill McKibben, founder of the environmental group 350.org, said in a tweet on Tuesday that “Russia can only afford to fight because of its oil and gas… so it might be wise to stop using oil and gas now.” From an article published on Feb 24, 2022.
Is that what they teach in Harvard?
This moron does not even know that without oil it is not possible to wage war.
Now I have a dream: Russia sanctionning the western countries: uranium, titanium, fertilizers, and so on...
Btw if the western countries had any power, they would send an ultimatum to Russia: leave Ukraine or... But as they are cowards, they came with fake news.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 20:09 utc | 67
Trump says he will use his power as President-elect to stop Biden using US-supplied missiles against Russia.
https://x.com/michonne_walker/status/1858547439575146858
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 18 2024 20:13 utc | 68
jpc @ 66
I mean conviction, the man has none, he's a flim-flam man through and through.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 20:14 utc | 69
Is that what they teach in Harvard?
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 20:09 utc | 68
---
RussiaHarvard is a gas stationhedge fund masquerading as a countryuniversity.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2024 20:15 utc | 70
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 18 2024 20:13 utc | 69
With an Alzheimer president he is unable to take any decision. People like Blinken and Sullivan do. And to put everything on Biden. So easy.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 20:17 utc | 71
Harvard is a hedge fund masquerading as a university.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2024 20:15 utc | 71
Excellent!!!
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 20:18 utc | 72
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 20:01 utc | 64
LOL, do you come from Mars or from Venus? Your question is more than stupid.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 20:19 utc | 73
"I was taught the manufactured history of WW2 and the Holocaust narrative.
Then I read books published in the 1960s, 1950s, and 1970s about the war; there is no mention of 6 million dead and gas chambers."
Posted by: Fan of Arch Bungles | Nov 18 2024 19:38 utc | 54
Bingo!
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 20:19 utc | 74
How come you are not answering? Are those places counted as Russia for sending conscripts?
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 20:26 utc | 75
A contrarian such as myself, sees Biden’s latest faux pas as freeing up Trump’s ability to end the war quickly, as he has so long promised.
Posted by: Chazz | Nov 18 2024 18:10 utc | 13
But he did not explain how, I'm sure he meant a few nukes. Trumpy has more reasons to strike Russia now than team diaper. Not only he said at the start of smo he would have bombed Moscow instantly, then said NS was actually his work, but he is not responsible for anything right now, a perfect moment to grab more power and support from the muricans. Some things can't be done without help from inside Russia as well. You can't tell me thousands of soldiers and hundreds of armored vehicles suddenly appeared in Kursk without anyone seeing anything, then had time to build concentration camps and fill them with locals, the entire army of a million can't secure the border or damage any infrastructure outside Donbass, but Ukros (with zero training these days) can hit any dam anywhere, on first try. The people behind failed smo will take the power in the near future, so we'll see who is what.
Posted by: rk | Nov 18 2024 20:26 utc | 76
I’d dearly like to hear the words “convictions” and “Boris Johnson” being spoken by a TV news reporter stood outside the courtrooms, once the case has concluded and sentencing issued...
~~~
More on-topic; I’m still far from convinced about the veracity of this ATACMS story. As far as I can tell, so far there’s been no official confirmation.
And of course, as other barflies have pointed out in various threads, variants of these type of weapons have already been used, to no great effect, so, to quote Her Royal Hillaryness, “What difference does it make?”
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 18 2024 20:28 utc | 77
Norwegian @ 69
Trump says he will use his power as President-elect to stop Biden using US-supplied missiles against Russia
Read the comments, supposedly fake. In Trump the bullshit runs deep, that's a bold tweet if true, which is why it's likely fake.
Real or fake I'd be happy to believe it. I will be most happy to eat crow if Trump lives up to his words. I'll eat it raw feathers and all. We will see, ClownWorld is supposed to be full of surprises otherwise it would be Dismaland.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 20:28 utc | 78
@ Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 19:26 utc | 44
Thank you, I had forgotten that Obama had also copied the 'Russia is just a gas station' comment from McCain. And of course Biden then picked it up from Obama.
Washington politics now is like watching a bunch of 5th grade kids at recess, all trying to outdo each other with clever insults.
How low we have fallen...and still have not hit bottom
Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 18 2024 20:32 utc | 79
too scents @ 71
Naive @ 73
Excellent!!!
+1!!! 👏
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 20:32 utc | 80
There are two RBMK nuclear reactors at the Kursk nuclear power plant. These older Chernobyl-type reactors lack the protective concrete and steel reactor containment vessel, which typically has steel-lined concrete walls that are 3 feet thick and are found on more modern reactors.
Each of the spent fuel pools located next to these reactors reportedly contain several hundred tons of spent fuel, which has 5 to 10 times more long-lived radiation (in particular, Cesium 137) than is held within the RBMK reactors. Spent fuel pools contain some of the largest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet.
These reactors and spent fuel pools are in range of the Storm Shadow, Scalp, Taurus, and standard JASSM cruise missiles; they would be destroyed by a direct hit from these missiles, which are armed with 900 to 1000-pound high-explosive warheads.
The destruction of these reactors and spent fuel pools would release far more radiation than was released by the destruction of the Chernobyl reactor.
The Ukraine War has shown the world that nuclear power plants become targets in war. The huge amounts of radioactive isotopes in reactor cores and spent fuel pools become pre-positioned radiological targets of opportunity.
The danger of an attack on the nuclear power plant was previously noted<>/A> in August by the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
This URL has photos of the spent fuel pools at Kursk.
This website describes how spent fuel is immediately placed in the spent fuel pool when refueling occurs at RKMB reactors.
Posted by: steven starr | Nov 18 2024 20:36 utc | 81
sorry for typo in the last sentence of my post, should read:
This website describes how spent fuel is immediately placed in the spent fuel pool when refueling occurs at RBMK reactors.
Posted by: steven starr | Nov 18 2024 20:39 utc | 82
Link to the danger of an attack on the Kursk nuclear power plant stated by the head of the IAEA is here
Posted by: steven starr | Nov 18 2024 20:43 utc | 83
A second submarine communication cable has been damaged. It stretches between Lithuania and Swedenhttps://t.me/myLordBebo/50832This has reduced the Internet bandwidth of Telia, which transmits the connection to Lithuania, by a third.
The causes of the incident are being investigated.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 18 2024 20:43 utc | 84
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 18 2024 19:34 utc | 52
Of course it can help ‘maintain’ the Kursk bridge head, if by help, you mean delay the inevitable. The very threat of the ATACMS will cause redeployments and dispersals (especially from airfields and forward deployment strips) and a change in logistics arrangements (plenty of railheads threatened). If, big if, the missiles are used then they will cause disruptions to operations and excess casualties.
The question is why now? It seems that everybody who should have known better thought Harris would win (lots of fascinating theories spawned by that fact alone), so is this just pushing forward a plan that has been months in the planning (first mention of NK assistance was, IIRC, after Avdeevka fell) or is it a response to the Trump win?
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 18 2024 20:13 utc | 69
That’s all that matters really. I think some people will shake off their shock at Harris’ loss and realise that pretending things are otherwise is not a viable strategy. Of course this could all be 5, or even 7D chess and Biden’s announcement allows a Trump reversal, allowing a prefabricated opening for establishing good relations with Putin, pre-Presidency.
Posted by: Milites | Nov 18 2024 20:45 utc | 85
Gil D raises a good point re: atacms limited to the Kursk region:
"There are only two possible types of targets in Kursk oblast worthy of discussion. One is troop concentrations of Russians and North Koreans performing the mopping up operation in Kursk. ATACMS strikes there probably will not initially force the Russians to respond. The second is the nuclear power plant in the region which was believed to be the prize initially sought by Kiev when it began its incursion.
Let us remember that the Kursk nuclear power plant is an early type plant which has no protective concrete dome over it to contain radioactive leaks and to prevent missile strikes from disabling it. Accordingly, an ATACMS strike on the plant will likely create a big, even devastating leak of radioactive particles across the region, meaning predominantly on Russian territory. Such an eventuality would force the hand of Putin to respond with a nuclear attack, likely on the Continental United States with all that means.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 18 2024 20:59 utc | 86
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 18 2024 20:28 utc |
https://i.postimg.cc/Qdy6zP2T/576f0e07-787d-4f9b-8083-50d1d3f02ca5.jpg
?
Posted by: Punkip | Nov 18 2024 21:01 utc | 87
It's hillarious to watch quite a few people being caught into discussion whether Russia is "just a large gas station". When discussion is actually out of question. Any country that makes it's own submarines, is a leader in peaceful usage of nuclear energy (Rosatom is currently no.1. builder of reactors worldwide), maintained it's own space station, has live space program not only on ISS but is capable of launching satellites whenever it wishes on it's own, created most advanced AD systems in the world, makes 5th generation fighter jets along with production of it's own commercial aircraft, country that is self-contained in production of everything military and is major agricultural player in the world - cannot be described as a mere 'gas station'.
I'm not even at the half of the list they are capable of producing (from advanced metallurgic products / alloys up to design of it's own CPU), but forget about all that. Ask yourself one question - how many countries can you count that are able to withstand effects of more than 15.000 sanctions for almost 3 years? Do you think USA would survive that level of isolation? Would EU be able to produce everything needed, having financial transactions blocked and with restricted access to resources?
Posted by: jurgen | Nov 18 2024 21:01 utc | 88
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 20:01 utc | 64
> Do those places count as Russia for conscription rules?
Yes. No legal obstacles to send conscripts there to serve.
Posted by: hopehely | Nov 18 2024 21:03 utc | 89
@ Debsisdead | Nov 18 2024 19:48 utc | 59
maybe this will help explain the thread better - Expert Explains Why, Essentially, You’re Fucked
Posted by: james | Nov 18 2024 21:12 utc | 90
@ jurgen | Nov 18 2024 21:01 utc | 89
thanks jurgen.. you hit the nail on the head.. congrats!
Posted by: james | Nov 18 2024 21:15 utc | 91
B, once again one can only agree with you, the arrogance of the haggler-in-chief knows no bounds.
But please, delete any stupid Holocaust denial posts here. They are just as intolerable as today's Israeli politics.
Posted by: Pnyx | Nov 18 2024 21:21 utc | 92
@ Arch Bungles, Fan of Arch Bungles | 1, 54
Jewish people being censored and not anything else by Google? If you look for census data in Germany on minorities before and after the Second World War, this is censored by Google but is easily available using the Yandex search engine.
_____________________________________
Thanks Arch!
+1 on using Yandex if you actually want to find something.
Also, alot of technical info has been disappeared from Google, etc,...; presumably it is pay to play and if you don't pay you arent found.
Posted by: NomNom | Nov 18 2024 21:28 utc | 93
Bing!
To read the western merdia is bad for one's mental health. To believe them... I prefer not to write what I think...
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 21:30 utc | 94
But please, delete any stupid Holocaust denial posts here. They are just as intolerable as today's Israeli politics.
Posted by: Pnyx | Nov 18 2024 21:21 utc | 93
The 6 millions is fake, there were many mass murders (Baby Yar, Treblinka, etc.), but not 6 millions. Demography does not lie. Like for the so called holodomor. Food scarcity, but not famine.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 21:37 utc | 95
How come you are not answering? Are those places counted as Russia for sending conscripts?
Posted by: dse34 | Nov 18 2024 20:26 utc | 76
How come you are not answering? Are you coming from Mars or from Venus? Jupiter?
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 21:41 utc | 96
The Biden regime wants to sabotage Trump making peace in Ukraine. Their tired litany of bogus "Russia Collusion" will not fly after of four years of repeating it previously.
If the claims made by Doctorow are true The Abraham Lincoln suffered damage by Houthi missiles using Russian satellites. At some point a wake up call for USA military capabilities will come. It is my hope it can come from a relatively painless event such as Doctorow describes. A simple evaluation of military capabilities must be accompanied by a abandonment of the world police hedgemon beliefs that infest the beltway. Adapting a true assesment of military capabilities and adapting to new realities will be very hard. Equally hard will be learning to participate as equals internationally. You have to start somewhere.
The truth is the USA will not dominate militarily ever again. The small taste of Russian military capabilities demonstrates reality. Chinese cuisine would probably be equally eye opening. Which doesn't mean there is no hope. USA s military should be made effective and appropriate as possible for a significantly downsized role.
USA reminds me of a alcoholic unable to understand its behavior is a threat to themselves and the world. A intervention of sorts is inevitable. Then there is a choice. Self destructive behavior and inability to adapt and accept has consequences.
ATACMs strikes within Russia will not change things at all but they probably result in the Houthis receiving even better ordnance where the result will not be able to be kept quiet.
Posted by: deadend | Nov 18 2024 21:45 utc | 97
1. More wonderwaffen bs? if they are even fired.
2. Lame duck Biden can’t be compromising incoming executive already in transition planning. for sure right?
3. Means nothing short term never mind longer happens without incoming exec agreeing to it. Even any new funds.
4. Any supposed unprovoked response wont be as expected.
5. Means drama of millions of Ukrainians on the roads to Europe escaping the retaliation and not happening invasion. Maybe thousands though, just for the show.
6. Retaliation would be targets around the world being toast. Far from the westen eye. The thousand needles are working.
All in all much sound and fury.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 18 2024 21:45 utc | 98
Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 18 2024 20:32 utc | 80
Alzheimer disease is a terrible one. Loss of memory. Especially the most recent one. One will forgot what he did or thought 5 minutes ago, one hour ago, yesterday and so on. It is impossible that he understands the current situation.
What is wonderful is that no one speak the truth about Biden's illness, speaking at most of demence. It is even worst than that.
The person becomes a vegetable (thus worst than a kid). The death comes with drowning if life is not interrupted before.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 18 2024 21:50 utc | 99
USA s military should be made effective and appropriate as possible for a significantly downsized role.
Posted by: deadend | Nov 18 2024 21:45 utc | 98
---
The USA military has already been retooled for domestic application. Keep in line. Remain calm.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2024 21:53 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2024 17:27 utc | 1