News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
|
|
|
|
Back to Main
|
||
|
November 29, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-285
News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
Comments
WOW, a whole lot of people already writing off Trump when he won’t even be in office for another 52 days, and a whole ‘nuther lot of people still bagging on Putin when all he does is continue to win the long game. Sad and pathetic. Posted by: TJandTheBear | Nov 30 2024 1:52 utc | 101 Russian representatives repeatedly made statements back in 2022, after the Ukrainians tore up the peace deal, to the effect that the Russia. Army would impose surrender terms, and those terms would be unconditional surrender. Posted by: Nobody Special | Nov 30 2024 2:08 utc | 102 Posted by: Nobody Special | Nov 30 2024 2:08 utc | 103 Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 30 2024 2:13 utc | 103 Posted by: Nobody Special | Nov 30 2024 2:08 utc | 103 Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 30 2024 2:31 utc | 104 Just wait until the Ukrainian sleeper cells distributed all over the collective West are activated. It won’t happen in the metaphorical tomorrow, but happen it will. It’ll take some time to raise the consciousness of the Ukrainians to the point that they realize how they’ve been duped by the West and led to annihilation-scale societal ruin. They’re going to trip like a switch and slaughter the Americans, Brits, and Poles in their midst. Posted by: Matthew | Nov 30 2024 2:38 utc | 105 @ Anton Gorbatow | Nov 30 2024 1:35 utc | 101 Posted by: james | Nov 30 2024 2:48 utc | 106 Nobody Special | Nov 30 2024 2:08 utc | 103 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 3:32 utc | 107 Posted by: schkid | Nov 29 2024 16:29 utc | 21 Could not agree more james. He has destroyed his country yet parades as the ultimate patriot. It is quite nauseating and you would hope for some sort of reckoning. Posted by: ZimZum | Nov 30 2024 3:34 utc | 109 ” Putin’s mutual security proposals, the alternative of which was military technical means. From what the lead Ukrainian negotiator said in and interview, the Russians bent over backwards to obtain a peace deal. Nato out of Ukraine and recognition of Crimea as Russian were the main points for Russia, they were will to forgo all other stated goals to save slaughtering the Ukrainians which Putin described as a brotherly people. Posted by: Salami | Nov 30 2024 3:40 utc | 110 What a great deal for Russia: give Ukraine NATO membership (for those who forgot, preventing this membership was one reason for current war) in return for an opportunity to rebuild the war-torn areas with the aim to eventually give them back to Ukraine. If I were Putin, I wouldn’t miss such a once in a lifetime oppotunity. Posted by: Worried University | Nov 30 2024 3:53 utc | 111 Salami | Nov 30 2024 3:40 utc | 111 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 3:59 utc | 112 ” Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 3:59 utc | 113 ” Posted by: Salami | Nov 30 2024 4:06 utc | 113 James 107, I agree that the Zelensky is merely the front man for NATO. Therefore I think it’s accurate to say that he is the face of NATO in Ukraine. And when NATO eventually agrees to all of Russia’s terms they will want to save face in the eyes of the dumb Western world. In fact, Russia will facilitate NATO saving face as a negotiating ploy. Posted by: Anton Gorbstow | Nov 30 2024 4:11 utc | 114 Salami | Nov 30 2024 4:06 utc | 114 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 4:18 utc | 115 Upon further reflection, it is now clear to me that Zelensky not only said that he is willing to cede territory but he also signaled that he will agree not to seek membership in NATO. This is a huge capitulation. Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Nov 30 2024 4:25 utc | 116 @ Anton Gorbstow | Nov 30 2024 4:11 utc | 115 // 117 Posted by: james | Nov 30 2024 4:35 utc | 117 Salami | Nov 30 2024 3:40 utc | 111 Posted by: ZimZum | Nov 30 2024 4:40 utc | 118 If it is true that Zelensky has agreed to this, then it is curious that this comes on the heels of the cease-fire in Southern Lebanon. Is this part of the wider deal? Eastern Kurian and no NATO for Gaza and Southern Lebanon. Or does it include part of Syria as well? Posted by: A1 | Nov 30 2024 4:41 utc | 119 It’s 0730 in Moscow. The NOTAM expires at midnight. The Russian Ministry of Defense has selected its targets. Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 4:48 utc | 121 @ schkid | Nov 29 2024 16:29 utc | 21 Posted by: james | Nov 30 2024 5:08 utc | 122 @ Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 4:48 utc | 122 Posted by: james | Nov 30 2024 5:10 utc | 123 Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 4:48 utc | 122 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 5:15 utc | 124 re: james | Nov 30 2024 5:10 utc | 124 Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 5:26 utc | 125 re: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 5:15 utc | 125 Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 5:28 utc | 126 @ Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 5:26 utc | 126 Posted by: james | Nov 30 2024 5:37 utc | 127 War, Terror & Coups: How the US Empire Went into Overdrive – with Mark Sleboda (& vid) Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 30 2024 5:40 utc | 128 Re James @124, Posted by: Kadath | Nov 30 2024 5:40 utc | 129 re: Kadath | Nov 30 2024 5:40 utc | 130 Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 5:50 utc | 130 Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 29 2024 22:51 utc | 82 Posted by: Suresh | Nov 30 2024 5:51 utc | 131 Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 5:28 utc | 127– @ Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 4:48 utc | 122 with discussion of potential Oreshnik strike(s)……thanks Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 30 2024 6:03 utc | 133 Re: Perimetr @131, Posted by: Kadath | Nov 30 2024 6:07 utc | 134 All Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 30 2024 6:30 utc | 136 Posted by: Kadath | Nov 30 2024 6:07 utc | 135
What? American leaders have clearly shown they don’t want a war with Russia. Nothing can be more evident, both from their words as well as their (in)actions, the slow graduality of their escalation moves, their denying Ukraines NATO membership, their ruling out of boots on the ground. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 30 2024 7:08 utc | 137 re: Johan Kaspar | Nov 30 2024 7:08 utc | 138 Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 30 2024 7:25 utc | 138 As long as Russia tries to settle the solution and reduce human suffering in Ukraine, the US politics will get more and more agressive. Posted by: Salmon | Nov 30 2024 7:51 utc | 139 Posted by: Kadath | Nov 30 2024 6:07 utc | 135
Furthermore, even the new USA admin has shown it very much doesn’t want a war with Russia. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 30 2024 7:52 utc | 140 meanwhile, BlackRock in other news: Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 30 2024 7:53 utc | 141 Oh the look of desperation in Z lying eyes in the sky interview. Posted by: Jo | Nov 30 2024 8:06 utc | 142 Simplicius:
Which is consistent with my views, as expressed in a comment I made here at MoA on Nov. 7:
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 30 2024 8:15 utc | 143 Re: Posted by: steve | Nov 29 2024 13:43 utc | 1
Oh boy. I’ve heard this before – many many times, and I doubt you’re correct this time either. Posted by: Julian | Nov 30 2024 8:54 utc | 144 Re: Posted by: james | Nov 29 2024 16:54 utc | 23
There should be no complaining, whinging and whining about these terms. Posted by: Julian | Nov 30 2024 9:05 utc | 145 Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 30 2024 8:15 utc | 144 Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 9:11 utc | 146 Posted by: TJandTheBear | Nov 30 2024 1:52 utc | 102 Posted by: Milites | Nov 30 2024 9:18 utc | 147 – (Eastern) Ukraine seems to be the most landmined country in the world. Posted by: WMG | Nov 30 2024 9:31 utc | 148 Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 9:11 utc | 147 Posted by: Milites | Nov 30 2024 9:40 utc | 149 Oreshnik besides the firepower, has brought escalation dominance back to Russian hands,sent z back to bunker with talks of surrender in a face saving way and generally demoralised the opposition – (Eastern) Ukraine seems to have the most landmines buried in the ground of all the countries in the world. Posted by: WMG | Nov 30 2024 9:53 utc | 151 Re: Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2024 20:15 utc | 55
Completely and utterly delusional and irrational thought process you have there thinking Türkiye will be kicked out of Idlib by June!!! Posted by: Julian | Nov 30 2024 9:55 utc | 152 @Kadath | Nov 30 2024 5:40 utc | 130 Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Nov 30 2024 9:59 utc | 153 How and by whom?!? If Chinese can get Saudis to mend fences with Iran even this possible Posted by: too scents | Nov 30 2024 10:14 utc | 155 @marcjf | Fri, 29 Nov 2024 20:08:00 GMT | 53
This is the only answer. Trump over promises and under delivers. The story of his professional (and probably personal) life. His re-election, which I was wrong about, is proof of PT Barnum’s axiom: There’s a sucker born every minute. In this case 77 million suckers. Posted by: James M. | Nov 30 2024 10:21 utc | 156 Donald Trump the statesman for me is “only in America”. But at least, he’s always been a master at coming up with catchy insults that stick. So if he wants to try something different, why aren’t he and his team talking nonstop about “BIDEN’s Ukraine war”? Words matter. If this is a part of the Biden legacy which Trump does not want, he should avoid getting associated with it. Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Nov 30 2024 10:23 utc | 157 @Michael J | Sat, 30 Nov 2024 10:10:00 GMT | 155
Is this a joke? Turkey won’t listen to the GCC. They will listen to Russia though. Posted by: James M. | Nov 30 2024 10:30 utc | 158 I’d really see this a replay of Barbarossa in redux, the original plan was based on faulty assumptions that were seeds of its own destruction. A critically compromised plan needs to be executed, before it’s executed. That requires a level of leadership that the West simply has not had, either political or military, until now. Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 10:36 utc | 159 Brutal, yes, but isn’t that what you do if you want to defeat your enemies? Posted by: Passerby | Nov 30 2024 10:41 utc | 160 Posted by: James M. | Nov 30 2024 10:30 utc | 159 The only thing Trump can do to end the war sooner is to cut all funding to Ukraine. This will accelerate Kiev’s collapse. But the war will end when Russia wants it to end. Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 10:50 utc | 162 Newbie | Nov 30 2024 10:50 utc | 163 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Nov 30 2024 11:04 utc | 163 “Trump drops Romania” Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 11:13 utc | 164 ” Putin’s mutual security proposals, the alternative of which was military technical means. From what the lead Ukrainian negotiator said in and interview, the Russians bent over backwards to obtain a peace deal. Nato out of Ukraine and recognition of Crimea as Russian were the main points for Russia, they were will to forgo all other stated goals to save slaughtering the Ukrainians which Putin described as a brotherly people. @Passerby | Nov 30 2024 10:41 utc | 161 Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Nov 30 2024 11:16 utc | 166 ” Putin’s mutual security proposals, the alternative of which was military technical means. From what the lead Ukrainian negotiator said in and interview, the Russians bent over backwards to obtain a peace deal. Nato out of Ukraine and recognition of Crimea as Russian were the main points for Russia, they were will to forgo all other stated goals to save slaughtering the Ukrainians which Putin described as a brotherly people. Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 11:21 utc | 167 Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 11:21 utc | 168 Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 30 2024 11:32 utc | 168 Posted by: Michael J | Nov 30 2024 9:48 utc | 151
Some people inside Russia get it, but notice how those people are actively marginalized by the Kremlin:
And as you correctly pointed out, Crocus City went unpunished. Medvedev posted “just wait, you bastards”, and here we are, still waiting, eight months later. Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 11:48 utc | 170 Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 30 2024 11:32 utc | 169 Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 30 2024 11:52 utc | 171 Posted by: James M. | Nov 30 2024 10:21 utc | 157 Posted by: qparker | Nov 30 2024 11:54 utc | 172
No, that is in fact exactly what is happening – the plan is eventually a genocide of Russian people and direct take over of the land, which will be the most valuable piece of real estate on the planet in the future as the climate continues to warm. Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 12:01 utc | 173 Posted by: Milites | Nov 30 2024 11:40 utc | 170 canuck | Nov 30 2024 11:14 utc | 166 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 12:09 utc | 175 “Trump over promises and under delivers.” As it was recently said in the Palestine-related thread, they will either hang separately, or they will (may?) hang together. Posted by: Arctaroll | Nov 30 2024 12:16 utc | 177
Yes, Putin tried very hard to push the L/DNR back into Ukraine, and did absolutely nothing to stop the Banderization of Ukraine and the slaughter of Russians there. Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 12:20 utc | 178 Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 12:01 utc | 174 Posted by: watcher | Nov 30 2024 12:25 utc | 179 Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 12:01 utc | 174 Posted by: scc | Nov 30 2024 12:29 utc | 180 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 30 2024 12:09 utc | 176 Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 30 2024 13:12 utc | 181 @ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 11:48 utc | 171 Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Nov 30 2024 13:15 utc | 182 Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 12:20 utc | 179 Posted by: Newbie | Nov 30 2024 13:42 utc | 183 @ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 12:20 utc | 179 Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Nov 30 2024 13:44 utc | 184
Point taken on Budanov, but only partially. That strike was in May 2023 or something. So 17-18 months ago. What about since then?
That’s the whole point though. By keeping the threshold of meaningful response so high, you end up with the classic use-it-or-lose-it dilemma in the end, which is a lose-lose proposition in the nuclear era. Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 14:04 utc | 185 Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 12:01 utc | 174 Posted by: Salmon | Nov 30 2024 14:11 utc | 186
The fact that all of it is sending money and weapons to Ukraine, as never before. Posted by: ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 14:15 utc | 187 Overall it is indeed an unprecedented level of unity. Everyone from Portugal to Finland and from Scotland to Turkey minus Hungary (and perhaps Ireland) is working for Ukraine. When have you ever had this before in previous wars against Russia? Posted by: malenkov | Nov 30 2024 14:31 utc | 188 Posted by: Kadath | Nov 30 2024 5:40 utc | 130 Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 30 2024 14:31 utc | 189 Russia will offer Ukrainian people a social welfare program and health care. NATO offers bootstraps and trickledown same as USA people get. Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Nov 30 2024 14:32 utc | 190 100,000 peacekeepers? Make that 100,000 provocateurs. In the first place EU cannot muster those troops. It would have to be Americans. Not a chance in Hell US can pull that off in an orderly manner. Trip-wire? The Russian troops on front line could not be restrained from slaughtering the stupid bastards. Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 30 2024 14:42 utc | 191 In the phrasing of A. Mercouris, “I have to ask …”: why do you think you KNOW everything that happens behind the closed doors of the Kremlin? 🙂 Yes, money talks in those corridors of power. But just jumping blindly into the war forgetting you have an economy to run as well–isn’t that the Olaf Scholz formula? 🙂 Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 30 2024 14:43 utc | 192 @ ANON2022 | Nov 30 2024 14:15 utc | 188 Posted by: I forgot | Nov 30 2024 14:47 utc | 193 Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Nov 30 2024 14:32 utc | 191 Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 30 2024 14:47 utc | 194 Russia will offer Ukrainian people a social welfare program and health care. NATO offers bootstraps and trickledown same as USA people get. Posted by: Salmon | Nov 30 2024 14:47 utc | 195 @ oldhippie | Nov 30 2024 14:42 utc | 192 Posted by: I forgot | Nov 30 2024 14:50 utc | 196 China will support Russia economically. Posted by: too scents | Nov 30 2024 14:51 utc | 197 Once in awhile taking a break from frontline fighting to remember the ludicrous infantile MSN reporting average Westerners get to read: Posted by: Trubind1 | Nov 30 2024 14:56 utc | 198 Overall it is indeed an unprecedented level of unity. Posted by: rk | Nov 30 2024 14:57 utc | 199 Do you really think Putin has another month to take definitive action against the US and UK (et al)? Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 30 2024 14:58 utc | 200 |
||