PuddingPulver @ 192

Are you sure they can hit moving targets?

If not this exact missile then some other related system, the Chinese DF21/26 carrier killers by definition must be able to hit moving targets. Not sure if they are hypersonic and gliding and multiple, but given the defense systems around carrier groups I figure they are. The Russians are ahead of the Chinese in hypersonic technology, I’m sure they have something even better the Chinese missiles, they would be important to fight their way out of a Baltic Sea naval blockade.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 21 2024 18:41 utc | 203

Some one said up thread, that the blast was hered 20 miles away. Probably right.
But i would say this blast would have been hered in london and the white house.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 21 2024 17:53 utc | 176
“The blast heard around the world”

Posted by: alek_a | Nov 21 2024 18:44 utc | 205

Posted by: Mary | Nov 21 2024 16:20 utc | 123
Ah, yes. The West did not know what kind of warhead was on the missile. Quite possible. Sometimes the way handling of the missile is done the satellites can get an idea if the warhead is nuclear or not. Look at some of the wording in the leak of the Israeli preparations for the follow up attack on Iran.
I interpreted the remark as that the West didn’t know the missile was launched until it hit.

Posted by: Ed4 | Nov 21 2024 18:48 utc | 207

even with this newest “russian escalation” (dont you just love western hypocrisy and bullshittery?), i dont see the nato/us/uk idiots backing down.
for them its highly likely (to use one of their favourite phrases) that they know their gig is up, but better to go out with a bang and hope that the russians wont target them, then to admit defeat.
remember, the worst thing for a narcissist like the collective west, is to admit wrongdoing and take accountability. they are all just children pretending to be adults.
so how i see this, after officially telling the world that they will deliver a strategic defeat to russia, that they will “support ukraine” until “they” defeat russia, backing down would lose the little standing they have in the world.
but not only in terms of “looks”. they highly likely believe that russia will deliver all those fancy new weapons to nations that oppose the western piracy and terrorism if they back down and show weakness.
they know that once others can defend themself, as one of those idiots recently stated when it comes to nuclear weapons beeing an insurance against nato, that its them that suddenly are on the receiving end, justifyibly so.
the collective waste, and that includes vassals like our german regime, know that they are neck deep in bovine manure.
so they cannot back out, and they cannot not attack russia and try to neuter this threat.
and thats a double dillema now. even if russia says: “look, you stop your shit now, and we wont make life harder for you.”, the collective west is so mentally deranged in afraid of any potential rising adversary, that they wouldnt accept that.
and russia cannot accept anything of the west, since they are officially and wildly seen worldwide as agreement incapable.
and that also includes our german regime, as proven by anal-ena baerbocks remarks around the non-implementation of un resolution 1244 with regards to kosovo.
as i see this, nato will keep delivering drones and missiles to try to hit anything russian. the eu will continiue to be the new nazi-reich, as they dont even pretend to reign in the actions of certain member states. and they also collectievly voted against the resolution to condemn nazism. go figure.
at some point, russia will have to hit the main instigators. hopefully the uk first, and maybe the eu will come to their senses, but i doubt it.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 21 2024 18:50 utc | 209

Very clever strike from Russia imho, whether the missiles were ICBM or MRBM.
First warning: Ukraine without warhead.
If the message is not acknowledged, second strike with a conventional warhead on targets endangering the security of Russia, for example the Aegis complexes in Romania and north Poland.

Posted by: scc | Nov 21 2024 18:54 utc | 211

Are NATO ISR/recon flights over the Black Sea now fair game?

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Nov 21 2024 18:56 utc | 213

Posted by: Catilina | Nov 21 2024 13:03 utc | 27 “I think the significance lies there that two US Minuteman test launches failed, as did two British test launches of Trident. I know of no successful western ICBM test launches at all.”
When did two test launches of US Minuteman missile fail?
Here are the last two Minuteman launches this year. Both successful.
Launch earlier this month: https://www.afgsc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3957640/minuteman-iii-test-showcases-readiness-of-us-nuclear-forces-safe-effective-dete/
Launch five months ago: https://www.spaceforce.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3796566/minuteman-iii-test-launch-showcases-readiness-of-us-nuclear-forces-safe-effecti/
Here is the last Trident, last year.
https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-successfully-powers-us-navys-trident-ii-d5-flight-tests

Posted by: Ed4 | Nov 21 2024 19:05 utc | 215

Posted by: Ed4 | Nov 21 2024 18:54 utc | 213
What is the use of tracking data, when there is no way of intercepting the thing, let alone evacuating the target area?
“We can see it coming, but we can’t do a damn thing about it”; oh, great!

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2024 19:12 utc | 217

Ed4 | Nov 21 2024 19:05 utc | 216
It’s true, one of the missiles had to be exploded in air shortly after launch, it malfunctioned. Google for it, the muricans announced it

Posted by: rk | Nov 21 2024 19:16 utc | 219

Posted by: T J Foster | Nov 21 2024 18:04 utc | 182
**************
And Hiroshima, Nagasaki never happened, thermonuclear tests were never carried out, TSAR bomba was a fake, as a landing on moon never happened.
STOP YOUR BULLSHIT

Posted by: scc | Nov 21 2024 19:20 utc | 221

The pint is the R-26 was designed and tested but shelved due to the INF treaty. After the US withdrew from the INF treaty they quietly began to make them since last July. The problem is Russia doesn’t want nuclear war. So they demo this missile which had 6 warheads each of which had 6 submunitions. The missile is dual intermediate or long range as required. If the US doesn’t get the message then Kiev is next then the 2 AEGIS systems in Poland and Romania. After that the all bets are off.

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Nov 21 2024 19:23 utc | 223

Re Small point: Peskov said there was no contact/warning ahead. Maybe RF has to look for some mole?
Donbass Devushka noted:
“Russia sent the U.S. a notification 30 minutes before the launch of the “Oreshnik” in automatic mode through the Nuclear Risk Reduction Center, Peskov told TASS.”
Still, no connection to the shutdown of embassies.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Nov 21 2024 19:25 utc | 225

What does
Oreshnik may be some evolution/mod in the SS-27 family, which includes ICBMs (SS-27 mod 1) = RT-2PM Topol-M, (SS-27 mod 2) RS-24 Yars and shorter-range IRBMs RS-26 Rubezh.The Rubezh was essentially an RS-24 Yars without the third stage, limiting its range to <5500km (=IRBM). >5500km considered ICBM. Note: early tests of the Rubezh without a payload put it just past the 5500km INF limit. The US that ‘fact’ as an excuse to back out of the INF Treaty in 2018. Russia stopped production of the Rubezh around that time (with 100’s in stock?) and diverted resources to developing hypersonics, instead. Some say Rubezh production had been restarted in Russia. Perhaps, or maybe it’s being confused with Oreshnik production.
Without getting into the INF Treaty soap opera, both the US and Russia wanted to limit intermediate range missiles because they were much harder to detect than ICBMs – lower in-atmosphere trajectories, flight times in single-digit minutes (vs. high double-digit for ICBMs) and reaction time maybe less than a minute or two, but still capable of carrying MIRVed nuke warheads. Russian IRBMs could reach most of western Europe and vice versa.
Russia’s Oreshnik is probably more of a threat to NATO than the imaginary threat of provoking Russia into using nuke ICBMs. US/NATO obviously warned the day before by Russia of ‘something’ (embassies in Kiev emptied).
Open question is whether US/NATO even detected the Oreshnik launch – which they *can* do for ICBMs and is critical to subsequent mid-course detection and to attempt a defense. Oreshnik is hypersonic mid-course does not leave the atmosphere like an ICBM. It may have been impossible to see or track by ground radar even if you detected the launch. Mach 10 terminal warhead speed makes it impossible for current AD systems to target or destroy in terminal phase. I know “Russian ICBM” sounds scary, but “Undetectable Russian IRBM with multiple hypersonic warheads” is much more likely to be what the Pentagon and NATO are obsessing about right now. “Put down the Xanax, General… that’s not helping!”
The Oreshniks used today appear (on-line video) to be capable of a payload of four or six hypersonic, kinetic-effect warheads – no explosives necessary. It also appears (on-line video) that six missiles were used, each one dropping it’s warheads in a group.
Technically, these are probably not MIRV – Multiple, Independently-targetable Reentry Vehicles. ICBM MIRV payloads can target multiple locations hundred of miles apart. The Dnipro strikes showed four or six warheads in relatively tight groups of (guessing) two or three hundred meters. Possible that Oreshnik hypersonic warheads are more of a shotgun-type area effect weapon than a cluster of precision guided warheads, but that’s a wild-assed guess based on the little known right now. If shotgun-type was used, then I’m sure Russia has precision-guided variants – hypersonic or not – as well.
And no reason to think Oreshniks are not nuke-capable – there shouldn’t be any problem to stuffing one or two 300 kt. warheads in one as far as weight goes. Western Europe (and US/NATO bases there) may want to think about that. Patriot and THAAD are useless. Dnipro and the missile factory complex would have been covered by significant (western) AD, yet no sign of any attempted response is seen in the videos and doubtful that anything would have been effective against the hypersonic warheads.
It would be interesting to see how deep the hypersonic warheads penetrated or how much damage they actually caused ot surface targets in Dnipro. US/NATO/Ukraine will do everything to hide that from the world and Russia isn’t big on providing ‘proof’ of their strike’s damage. Most publicly-available sat imagery is – for all practical purposes – filtered, edited and approved by the US and western powers, so I’ll take anything that comes out with a grain of salt.
Russia can’t have many Oreshniks, whether built from scratch or modified Rubezh. Using them today is intended to send a message – it’s not a wonder-weapon and using them in Ukraine will not alter the course of the war by itself. The dilemma it poses for NATO is way more significant: you can’t hide ‘Ukraine’ F-16s in Poland or Romanian airfields from undetectable, or at least unstoppable missiles.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Nov 21 2024 19:30 utc | 227

Posted by: T J Foster | Nov 21 2024 18:04 utc | 182
###########
I have considered the same thing for some time.
I researched what Nagasaki and Hiroshima looked like 20 years later from photographs. As someone who grew up in the West and had to do nuke drills in grade school, it was shocking how good both cities (supposed to be radioactive wastelands) looked.
While nukes may exist, their effect and consequences may be wildly over-stated.
Any intelligent person must be able to consider that 100% of what other people widely believe may be incorrect.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2024 19:37 utc | 229

This is going to be a humiliating defeat for the US and Europe. The longer we resist the bigger the humiliation will be.
Only a few NATO countries – Hungary, Slovakia, perhaps Turkey – will emerge more or less unscathed.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 21 2024 19:39 utc | 231

*** While nukes may exist, their effect and consequences may be wildly over-stated. ***
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2024 19:37 utc | 230
Qui Bono from whoever has the biggest boogeyman? Incumbents who have an incentive to put more boogey into the man.

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 21 2024 19:42 utc | 233

MorePain4Cakes | Nov 21 2024 19:18 utc | 221–
Thanks for your reply. I see it was answered further down the thread.
As for additional modifications of the rules of engagement such as interdicting NATO Black Sea recon flights, those will be discovered when they happen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2024 19:48 utc | 235

Is it wise (or to expensive) to use ICBM in non nuclear configuration?
Posted by: Salmon | Nov 21 2024 12:15 utc | 8
What’s expensive ? When you issue the rouble ?
Unless, you are seriously suggesting roubles are hand to find. That there is only so many sitting in a field somewhere and once the field is empty there is no more roubles to be found. lol.
Tip: they create them from thin air. By pushing down on a number on a computer keyboard. The Russian government is the ” issuer ” of the currency. Not like a household or business that are ” users ” of the currency.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Nov 21 2024 19:52 utc | 237

A question: I understand a heavy inert mass traveling super duper hypersonic releasing great energy on impact, E=MC2 and all that, that’s how a meteor works, but how does an active hypersonic warhead work, wouldn’t it be destroyed before it could detonate?
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 21 2024 17:13 utc | 149
That is not how a meteor “works”.
E=mc^2 is the equation for conversion of matter into energy. It does not apply to the mass of moving missiles, meteors, lumps of material at well below the speed of light.

Posted by: Liolia Paluzas | Nov 21 2024 19:57 utc | 239

Any intelligent person must be able to consider that 100% of what other people widely believe may be incorrect.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2024 19:37 utc | 230
those bombs dropped on Japan were very low yield devices compared to modern weapons. Us cold war kids were brought up to believe blast and fallout was the big risk with these weapons but we know now the danger is in the heat they radiate and the resulting firestorms they create.
The heat is so intense that everything organic well beyond the blast radius is burned completely … everything from building materials to bodies down to the roots and organic matter in the top soil completely consumed and sterilized. The firestorm isn’t like the firestorms in tokyo or Dresden either … it pushes radioactive ash into the upper atmosphere akin to a large volcano that stays there for up to decades until it slowly gets washed out by rain.
Look up 536 AD to get an idea of what life would be like on this planet after a small nuclear exchange of about 100 warheads then multiply it exponentially for what it would look like if the heavyweights traded blows.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 21 2024 20:00 utc | 241

Posted by: Ed4 | Nov 21 2024 18:54 utc | 213
So what?
It took a few minutes, maybe 5, from the launch to the hit.
What could Nato do? Launch a nuclear strike?

Posted by: Mario | Nov 21 2024 20:04 utc | 243

So I’m late for the party of the Dnipro 36 gun salute
Putin cleared most of the speculation and others have mentioned some interesting point.
I would add only two.
If kinetic attack, who is the country that probably has low grade tungsten to waste?
Even the automated 30 min warning might have been too little guarantee for european “allies”, they might be a bit upset about the us’s inaction.
I will add a small “unconnected” comment by putin, the advance continues in the all line of combat.
If someone cares, I recently did a new modeling of SMO on a marines vs grunt basis with the historical deaths and proportional recovery of not deceased wounded.
3.000.000 AFU casualties 600.000 RF casualties (half dead, half irrecoverably wounded)
It fits announced numbers by RF (assuming they only estimated deaths with their own ratios that underestimated strongly KIA and DOW)
It fits announced numbers by AFU (assuming they estimated total irrecoverable losses with their own ratios that s overestimate wounded unable to return to front)
It fits the september ukraine dead relatives and acquaintances for dumbar numbers 5 and 15 and a population close to 30m
RF army has overtaken AFU in size, 500k vs 475k, likely 25-50k in hospital in both cases.
Now for my final and more important note, ys)all this confirms that RF credibility as an alternate security provider might have allowed the event of the year/decade (on these crazy days), the KSA-China USD bond issuing.
Check any in other threads if you care.
my 2 ksa-china usd coupons

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 21 2024 20:07 utc | 245

I’m confused was it one Oreshnik with six warheads that hit Dnepropetrovsk or 6 Oreshniks and 36 warheads total? Or were Oreshniks used on more than one site?
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 21 2024 19:49 utc | 237

Dont be confused:
It was a single rocket with 6 MIRV maneuverable and targetable hypesonic vehicles.
Each MIRV has 6 maneuverable and targetable hypersonic warheads.
Hence 6 x 6= 36 warheads.
In this case All hit the target in almost the same location but could be hundred of km away if wanted.
Each war head can be nuclear or simply metallic rods from heaven.
Does your country have 36 big cities?
Then ALL of them can be destroyed at once by one single such intermediate range rocket with thermonuclear warheads.
It is easy and it is simple.

Posted by: bog | Nov 21 2024 20:08 utc | 247

‘The PM Should Make A Statement To Parliament Immediately To Confirm Whether UK Missiles Have Been Fired Into Russia’. – Jeremy Corbyn MP
https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1859280387081470191
“…He must tell the British public if this means we are now at war with a nuclear power, what risk this poses to people in Britain, and why this action was taken without any approval from Parliament…”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 21 2024 20:11 utc | 249

Posted by: Liolia Paluzas | Nov 21 2024 19:57 utc | 240
************
To convert speed of an object in energy multiply the square of the speed by the mass a divide by 2. That’s for Newton physics, not relativity (E=MC2).

Posted by: scc | Nov 21 2024 20:14 utc | 251

I suspect its over for zelinsky and ukraine their recent use of long rainge missiles was their last desperate throw of the dice.
Over for zelinsky.
Over for ukraine.
Over for biden.
Over for starmer (a straw man)

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 21 2024 20:18 utc | 253

Donbass Devushka noted:
“Russia sent the U.S. a notification 30 minutes before the launch of the “Oreshnik” in automatic mode through the Nuclear Risk Reduction Center, Peskov told TASS.”
Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Nov 21 2024 19:25 utc | 226
TASS has this:
MOSCOW, November 21. /TASS/. Russia did not send advance notifications to the United States or other countries about the use of the Oreshnik hypersonic missile on a Ukrainian military-industrial facility as there are no such obligations, Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told TASS.
“No, there have been no notifications, for Russia has no such obligation with regard to intermediate-range missiles,” the spokesman emphasized.
So, whatis Donbas Devushka talking about?
The closing of the embassies may have been a standard precautionary measure for a major escalatory move, or a PR fear-inducing message that the evil Putin will strike Kiev.

Posted by: JB | Nov 21 2024 20:20 utc | 255

even with this newest “russian escalation” (dont you just love western hypocrisy and bullshittery?), i dont see the nato/us/uk idiots backing down.
…
at some point, russia will have to hit the main instigators. hopefully the uk first, and maybe the eu will come to their senses, but i doubt it.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 21 2024 18:50 utc | 210

Yes, this is correct. The western population is 120% brainwashed and their rulers have decided to go to nuclear war with Russia and China.
US / NATO can NOT loose.
Russia can NOT loose.
This is slowly going towards full spectrum nuclear war.
Trump or Biden it does not mater.
The keyword here is “slowly”.
Say “thank you” to Putin and XI for this slow motion.
You still have time for a few drinks at the bar.

Posted by: bog | Nov 21 2024 20:21 utc | 257

Does your country have 36 big cities?
Then ALL of them can be destroyed at once by one single such intermediate range rocket with thermonuclear warheads.
Posted by: bog | Nov 21 2024 20:08 utc | 248
London. Paris. Calais. Dover. Military planners will enjoy this.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 21 2024 20:23 utc | 259

@James C
“I hate to be one of the annoying commenters that constantly complains about Russia’s escalation strategy, but I really don’t understand why they wouldn’t send this weapon to where Zelensky and his top officials are located in Kiev or where ever they are located. Wouldn’t taking him out create a chance for some reasonable people to assume power in an election or coup and end the war?”
Putin gave his word not to attack Ukraine’s political leadership. and I think Russia doesn’t want to make a martyr out of Zelensky. and then there’s always the risk of an even bigger weirdo taking over.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 21 2024 20:25 utc | 261

‘UK forces are ready to face Russia tonight’ — British Deputy Chief Rob Magowan
This was his response when MPs asked him ‘how many British brigades could get to NATO’s eastern flank’ in the event of a major escalation with Russia.

https://t.me/rtnews/74678
What is it they have on these lunatics?

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2024 20:29 utc | 263

@ Clown Shoes | Nov 21 2024 20:28 utc | 263

That’s it. Boom, U.S has (right now) complete dominance of space, full stop.

Sure, except “Starship” has never reached orbit and the last flight the other day ended in two separate 100% destructive explosions.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2024 20:33 utc | 265

Trump will have to make some kind of statement soon, or appear inept. In DC itself, it is impossible to get any coherence from current leadership.
His silence now makes one wonder if he is already neutered by the DS. It is noted one of his more “controversial” picks already withdrew the nomination.
So many things going on at this time, although the emerging Russia-NAZO open conflict should really overshadow everything else..

Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Nov 21 2024 20:37 utc | 267

the 2 AEGIS systems in Poland and Romania. After that the all bets are off.
Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Nov 21 2024 19:23 utc | 224
Why waste it on that? Kinzhal and Zirkon can easily hit those already. This must be for something else. But none of these “messages” will work if US UK FR and DE don’t feel any danger and lose some money. So far Putin barely fights Ukr because allegedly they’re “brothers” and cute and was afraid of a little Hms Defender and a little US drone in Black Sea. I really don’t know why he’s so surprised he received the Gaza treatment in Kursk as well

Posted by: rk | Nov 21 2024 20:41 utc | 269

I’ve been deleted twice, but I will tell you people. THERE ARE NO NUKES. Einstein, largely a fraud, didn’t come up with some nonsense science in the forties to make the ultimate bomb. Look at the Tsar bomb footage AGAIN. It’s clearly fake, Hollywoodesque shit. That alone blows the whole story. If nukes were real, why fake any of it? It’s not like a bicycle or something though, you couldn’t fake such an invention. But it is obvious a lot of the photos and footage of nukes are fake, and governments could fake it. So stop being so credulous and especially don’t be worried about nukes because they’re fake.

Posted by: T J Foster | Nov 21 2024 20:47 utc | 271

Posted by: Clown Shoes | Nov 21 2024 20:28 utc | 263
Wonderful! Marvellous! That SpaceX is 100% US-sourced technology and there is absolutely nothing in its component supply chain that comes from… er… China, or er… Russia, or er… about those raw materials supplies? All secure and in no danger of reciprocal sanctions?

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2024 20:50 utc | 273

i heard that Gaetz has backed off being AG.. any confirmation.

Posted by: snake | Nov 21 2024 20:56 utc | 275

Test

Posted by: Mario | Nov 21 2024 20:58 utc | 277

i heard that Gaetz has backed off being AG.. any confirmation.
Posted by: snake | Nov 21 2024 20:56 utc | 276
================================================
I understand that’s true.

Posted by: Engineer-John | Nov 21 2024 21:01 utc | 279

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2024 15:15 utc | 93
This was a ICBM across the bows, with, what looked like, inert MIRVS against a largely symbolic target, from a weapon system immune to counter-measures. A ballistically delivered F U that says, I match your 300km extended range and raise you 2,500, and the distinct suggestion that the next time the warheads will not be inert and the target picked for its strategic, not symbolic, value.
Posted by: Mario | Nov 21 2024 15:26 utc | 99
The Soviet fear of Pershing II’s and Tomahawk CM’s was that their low CEP would be used in a decapitation strike, destroying their C3 system and preventing a coordinated strike, or even a release of weapons, given the strict protocols. Hence their support for the unwashed, denim-clad, wimmin at Greenham Common and Molesworth.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 21 2024 21:03 utc | 281

Posted by: Clown Shoes | Nov 21 2024 20:28 utc | 263
Wonderful! Marvellous! That SpaceX is 100% US-sourced technology and there is absolutely nothing in its component supply chain that comes from… er… China, or er… Russia, or er… about those raw materials supplies? All secure and in no danger of reciprocal sanctions?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2024 20:50 utc | 274

Why should I wait 90 mins for a starlink satellite to be overhead over my target WHEN I CAN send 36 warheads to target in 5 minutes?
In 90 mins I can take out 9×2 = 18 countries BEFORE Starlink can retaliate.
Bet I can take out C&C for Starlink?
Besides a single ASAT with ball-bearing balls can kill ALL low Earth orbits for thousands of years if not millions of years.
Hence no more re-launching of new satellites and ALL satellites self destruct in a few minutes / hours
Same can be done for 36.000 km Geo stationary satellites with on extra ASAT rocket.
You only need 2 rockets to end all human race “space race” for a very long time.
Of course this means NO more satellites for RU and China also. bad luck.
Ah, and NO more ICBM also since ICBM goes 36.000km up and them falls back on Earth.
This shows the importance of hypersonics the never exit the Earth atmosphere and have no problems like space satellites. 😀 bad luck again for Musk / US.
better learn physics fast… or hire Indians or scientist from Yemen ?

Posted by: bog | Nov 21 2024 21:06 utc | 283

Posted by: snake | Nov 21 2024 20:56 utc | 276 “Gaetz”
Posted by: Engineer-John | Nov 21 2024 21:01 utc | 280 “Gaetz”
Since we are off topic… Gaetz resigned from the House once he was nominated. But he was also elected (reelected) to the next Congress. Does that means he is back at his old job in January?

Posted by: Ed4 | Nov 21 2024 21:08 utc | 285

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2024 20:29 utc | 264
What is it they have on these lunatics?

They are, or pretend to be, cock sure that Russia won’t escalate even though they’re begging for it. Assuming that behind the clowns like UK’s Magowan or Germany’s Baerbock there is rational thought then I have to conclude that the Empire has decided a larger sacrifice than Ukraine is required. I still think that no power faction in Washington wants a nuclear war but we do know that they’re very eager for a larger conventional war and this seems to be what they’re going for. (All from the Western POV, of course.)
And I think the need for a larger war is real: the crisis of (Western) capitalism is too large to fix in the old way, with conjuring up money. I believe that the Covid measures were an attempt to disrupt the economy strongly enough but it didn’t work. I also think that WW1 was a similar valve in a serious capitalist crisis. So the war that may come is (a) hopefully not nuclear, (b) not an accident or the result of madness but (c) desirable and even necessary.
I would like to hear other, a little happier, rational explanations.

Posted by: Konami | Nov 21 2024 21:11 utc | 287

Posted by: Milites | Nov 21 2024 21:03 utc | 282
We never saw a decapitation strike from Pershing or whatever, so question is, what was the fear of West at the time?

Posted by: Mario | Nov 21 2024 21:11 utc | 289

Sorry, I don’t think I was deleted. My rant was on the earlier page. But trembling humanity, exult! Nukes are fake and nothing to worry about. They have all the weapons they need to level cities into the dust but nukes are fake.

Posted by: T J Foster | Nov 21 2024 21:13 utc | 291

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2024 20:29 utc

‘UK forces are ready to face Russia tonight’ — British Deputy Chief Rob Magowan
This was his response when MPs asked him ‘how many British brigades could get to NATO’s eastern flank’ in the event of a major escalation with Russia.
https://t.me/rtnews/74678
What is it they have on these lunatics?

If it does happen, there will be more of these unconfirmed North Korean troops involved in the conflict than there will be British.

Posted by: PacMan | Nov 21 2024 21:17 utc | 293

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 21 2024 20:29 utc

‘UK forces are ready to face Russia tonight’ — British Deputy Chief Rob Magowan This was his response when MPs asked him ‘how many British brigades could get to NATO’s eastern flank’ in the event of a major escalation with Russia.
https://t.me/rtnews/74678
What is it they have on these lunatics?

If it does happen, there will be more of these unconfirmed North Korean troops involved in the conflict than there will be British.

Posted by: PacMan | Nov 21 2024 21:19 utc | 295

TJF
Assuming you are 100% correct on facts — why would you think this place and manner of discussing the subject will be fruitful?
Your subpoint that none should believe anything their governments tell them is a good one. Bear in mind that at this bar the overwhelming majority believed and endorsed every iota of the COVID saga and many still do.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 21 2024 21:22 utc | 297

Engineer-John @ 280

heard that Gaetz has backed off being AG.. any confirmation.

It’s true, and certainly worse than RFKjr eating a Big Mac. The Deep State takes out the first and most important reformer, of course with the usual foolproof sexual misconduct charges. Might be true but you’d think the Trump team carefully vetted him, and where were these charges before he was selected for AG? I think Trump and his team are frauds and every bit as dangerous as the Biden crowd, but sitting in the peanut gallery I’m willing to be proven wrong and curious to see how the GOP gadflies and iconoclasts like Gaetz would play out, if only for the perverse entertainment value, Trump One was a pretty good distraction, I laughed, I cried, I waited for the sequel.
The Deep State already pulled on the first loose thread of Trump’s new sweater.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 21 2024 21:25 utc | 299