News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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November 10, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-270
News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
Comments
Reports of Trump having called Putin. My imagined eavesdrop summary: Posted by: Not-a-troll | Nov 10 2024 23:56 utc | 101 Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:45 utc | 97 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 0:00 utc | 102 Ogre in comment 3 in this thread posted that reportely Russia had lost an average of 1500 troops per day in October. Jeremy Rhymings – Lang (love that name) a little way down the thread asked if there was anything to verify it. Posted by: Arthur Foxake | Nov 11 2024 0:00 utc | 103 Any demilitarised zone controlled by the west or UN, will not be acceptable. After all, it was a demilitarised zone manned by the OSCE that caused the SMO, as it failed to monitor properly the AFU attacks throughout the period 2014-2022. Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 11 2024 0:18 utc | 104 The script is already written. Lets not watch the same play again! Posted by: Fyador | Nov 11 2024 0:24 utc | 105 Marat Khairullin has written about Russian high-level plans for a DMZ. It would include Poltava under a Russian-selected Governor with significant ties to Ukraine. Someone who will behave because it will be smart business to do so. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 0:33 utc | 106 Rutte, displaying Dutch Courage. But in an ideal world Europe funding NATO and the U.S. doing an Afghanistan on NATO is closer than it may appear. Posted by: kupkee | Nov 11 2024 0:34 utc | 107 Quoted by Naive @100: “NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said that if Trump surrenders Ukraine to Putin, he will personally kick the US out of the alliance.” Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 11 2024 0:37 utc | 108 The same thing will happen with Pres Trumps plan, whilst Kiev builds up its weaponry once again, ready for the next war. Kiev will start to shell across the DM zone, the so-called peacekeepers will turn a blind eye, Russia will retaliate, western media will condemn Russia’s “aggression”. Posted by: The Flying Scotsman | Nov 11 2024 0:39 utc | 109 Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 11 2024 0:18 utc | 10 Posted by: Ted from Liverpool | Nov 11 2024 0:43 utc | 110 @103 Posted by: GW | Nov 11 2024 0:44 utc | 111 @Ted from Liverpool | Mon, 11 Nov 2024 00:43:00 GMT | 110
The UN doesn’t really “organize” referendums. They can send election observers to watch a vote at the request of a country, to see if it is “free and fair,” but otherwise normally the UN doesn’t get involved in setting up direct elections, due to sovereignty issues. Posted by: James M. | Nov 11 2024 0:51 utc | 112 The obvious Trump action on the Ukraine would be to call for free & fair elections there, since Zelensky’s term expired months ago and there is no-one for the Russians to negotiate with. Posted by: Gavin Longmuir | Nov 11 2024 1:21 utc | 113 Posted by: Gavin Longmuir | Nov 11 2024 1:21 utc | 113 Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 11 2024 1:25 utc | 114 To the victor goes the spoils and the Russians are winning. Thus there is no outcome that we can get in Ukraine that will look good politically. So, the problem becomes who gets the blame. To the extent we can, pass it off to Europe. That and make a fuss about the cost of the war because that will play well with the public. Posted by: Jmaas | Nov 11 2024 1:35 utc | 115 The west can absolutely stop Russia in Ukraine and force back to the 1991 borders if they wanted to within a month. Putin wouldn’t have much of a say in it other than get permission from China to use nukes in an offensive war. Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 11 2024 1:43 utc | 116 Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:11 utc | 89 Posted by: Paranaense | Nov 11 2024 1:59 utc | 117 Posted by: Ted from Liverpool | Nov 11 2024 0:43 utc | 110 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 2:04 utc | 118 Posted by: Gavin Longmuir | Nov 11 2024 1:21 utc | 113 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 2:15 utc | 119 Russia has already held referendums. All of those territories are Constitutionally Russia now. Posted by: Ted from Liverpool | Nov 11 2024 2:17 utc | 120 Russia can continue doing what it is doing and the kill ratio gets better and better as the ukies continue to lose effectiveness. Once Russia accepts an unconditional surrender they can have a referendum in each oblast. If Odessa votes Russia, it’s Russian. Posted by: comrade simba | Nov 11 2024 2:19 utc | 121 If NATO wants to go at the Russian Federation in Ukraine while lacking the backing of the Trump administration they will be weakening the positions of their economies relative to the United States. Remember who suffered the most in WWI and how the United States flourished afterwards, and remember who suffered in WWII and how the United States enjoyed dominance over Europe afterwards. Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 11 2024 2:28 utc | 122 Regarding Odessa, I’ve long wondered how much it is in fact bound to the rest of Ukraine and to what degree it sees itself instead a city-state. Where do the troops guarding it live? Are some of them local militia? How loyal are the police to Kiev? Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 11 2024 2:36 utc | 123 I voted for Trump bc he knew more about nukes than his neocon puppet opponent and bc I enjoy liberals’ tears and their heads exploding. Posted by: paddy | Nov 11 2024 2:41 utc | 124 Posted by: Ted from Liverpool | Nov 11 2024 2:17 utc | 121 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 3:01 utc | 126 Posted by: Ted from Liverpool | Nov 11 2024 2:17 utc | 121 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 3:03 utc | 127 ZH has a smarmy posting up about the supposed talk between Putin and Trump
This makes it sound like Putin initiated the call which I read elsewhere was initiated, IF IT HAPPENED, by Trump side. Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 11 2024 3:13 utc | 128 Russia, just pile it on, until they beg for mercy. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 3:13 utc | 129 Regarding Odessa, I’ve long wondered how much it is in fact bound to the rest of Ukraine and to what degree it sees itself instead a city-state. Where do the troops guarding it live? Are some of them local militia? How loyal are the police to Kiev? Posted by: Jmaas | Nov 11 2024 3:14 utc | 130 Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 11 2024 3:13 utc | 129 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 3:20 utc | 131 Trump will understand force, eventually.. Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 11 2024 3:26 utc | 132 Well, Biden is still the President, so…
Posted by: scanalyse | Nov 11 2024 3:39 utc | 134
Putin, who has been in power in Russia since 2000, was amazed, stunned, awestruck and dutifully intimidated when his attention was directed by Trump to the “big, beautiful, most powerful, most amazing” U$ military presence in Europe. Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 11 2024 3:56 utc | 135 Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 11 2024 3:26 utc | 133 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 4:15 utc | 136 Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 11 2024 3:56 utc | 136 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 4:19 utc | 137 Russia is unable to destroy Ukrainian 750 KV network. Posted by: Screwdriver | Nov 11 2024 4:46 utc | 138 Barflies, Posted by: Exile | Nov 11 2024 4:59 utc | 139 Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Nov 10 2024 22:49 utc | 84 Posted by: Screwdriver | Nov 11 2024 6:05 utc | 140 Little remark from little Slovakia – what Slovak PM said this weekend, after meeting with the clown in Budapest: Posted by: Jergus Lapin | Nov 11 2024 6:25 utc | 141 I am fixated to 750 KV network as it is a way to stop the war without much destruction, without killing people.Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 22:37 utc | 81 Trump Calls Putin – WaPo Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 11 2024 6:48 utc | 143 To its great embarrassment, US has never treated Mr. Putin and his officials with respect. Per MacGregor, 11/8, no “agreements” with Russia can happen unless this changes, unless US policy changes to the point that it respects Russia: Posted by: susan mullen | Nov 11 2024 6:53 utc | 144 Referendums- what about elections in the whole of Ukr that’s left. It would be interesting to see who would run and who would get a vote and who they would vote for. comrade simba | Nov 11 2024 2:19 utc | 122 Posted by: flying dutchman | Nov 11 2024 7:35 utc | 146 If the electricity would be disrupted people from Ukraine could move elsewhere, to Poland, Germany… Posted by: vargas | Nov 11 2024 7:48 utc | 147 If the electricity would be disrupted people from Ukraine could move elsewhere, to Poland, Germany… Posted by: vargas | Nov 11 2024 7:48 utc | 148 Trump will understand force, eventually.. Posted by: vargas | Nov 11 2024 7:59 utc | 149 @flying dutchman | Mon, 11 Nov 2024 07:35:00 GMT | 147
If the Russian military controls the region the vote will not be in doubt. Posted by: James M. | Nov 11 2024 8:10 utc | 150 If the electricity would be disrupted people from Ukraine could move elsewhere, to Poland, Germany… https://news-pravda.com/nato/2024/11/10/842835.html
Being louder than Trump, let’s see how that goes. Hilarious if true. Posted by: SOS | Nov 11 2024 8:26 utc | 152 Starmer and Macron, both idiots of note, are meeting today. Most likely to allow Ukraine the use of long reaching missiles. Posted by: g wiltek | Nov 11 2024 8:47 utc | 153 So much noise these days… Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Nov 11 2024 8:55 utc | 154
Posted by: Jmaas | Nov 11 2024 1:35 utc | 115 Posted by: joey_n | Nov 11 2024 9:40 utc | 155 When Russia invaded Ukraine nearly 3 years ago, it didn’t expect to end up fighting for Kursk with the aid of North Korean troops. Posted by: Louis | Nov 11 2024 10:02 utc | 156
I agree with you G, as a citizen of Perfidious Albion, I assumed deep state cutout Starmer was groomed to first ensure former leader Jeremy Corbyn was ousted (his crime was caring too much about the working class & too little about Israel) & second to be Prime Minister of War when the deep state decides the hot phase of the conflict with Russia begins.
So there we have it, if and when the go ahead for the use of deep missile penetration into Russia is given, a series of escalations could ultimately lead to Paris burning and the bottom half of the UK washed away by a well placed Tsunami bomb in the North Sea (luckily I live in the top half). Posted by: FakeBelieve | Nov 11 2024 10:08 utc | 157 Starmer and Macron, both idiots of note, are meeting today. Most likely to allow Ukraine the use of long reaching missiles. Posted by: vargas | Nov 11 2024 10:24 utc | 158
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 11 2024 10:25 utc | 159 Looks as if the trial balloon floated by the Washington Post has burst: https://sputnikglobe.com/20241111/kremlin-says-putin-trump-held-no-conversation-reports-about-it-false-1120852157.html
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 10:31 utc | 160 YouTuber Lindybeige has deleted this magnificent livestream that now can only be appreciated on Telegram
English excellence! Posted by: too scents | Nov 11 2024 10:33 utc | 161 Nato head Mark Rutte has reportedly threatened to eject US from NATO if ‘Trump surrenders Ukraine to Putin’. If this is true, the end of Nato is written on the wall. Posted by: unimperator | Nov 11 2024 10:41 utc | 162 The conversation between Putin and Trump, which the Washington Post wrote about, did not happen, this is false information – Peskov Posted by: guest | Nov 11 2024 10:57 utc | 163
found this on telegram . i wonder how fast its going to be shut down. Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 11 2024 10:59 utc | 164 I agree. But they [the referenda] were called a “sham” in the west. Posted by: malenkov | Nov 11 2024 11:50 utc | 165 The Russians are not shutting down all power in Ukraine for a simple reason: they do not dare escalate the conflict to the point of destroying Ukraine’s nuclear power plants. While much else has been damaged, nuclear power plants represent a significant red line that neither side wants to cross. Posted by: John Archer | Nov 11 2024 12:45 utc | 166 Part of me is hoping that Putin dispels the mythology of Trump as a supreme American dealmaker. Americans will never get it but the Global South will. Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 11 2024 13:34 utc | 167 I believe when Trump won the first time he was just as surprised as everyone else and was TOTALLY unprepared and it showed. He was doing it as a favor to Hillary and to Posted by: qparker | Nov 11 2024 13:40 utc | 168 @Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 11 2024 13:34 utc | 168 Posted by: Roger Boyd | Nov 11 2024 13:44 utc | 169 The west can absolutely stop Russia in Ukraine and force back to the 1991 borders if they wanted to within a month. Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 11 2024 13:49 utc | 170 The world is mad. Posted by: Mike R | Nov 11 2024 14:26 utc | 171 Posted by: Louis | Nov 11 2024 10:02 utc | 157 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 15:01 utc | 172 Posted by: John Archer | Nov 11 2024 12:45 utc | 167 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 11 2024 15:06 utc | 173 Professor Glenn Diesen is opening a new interesting point of view describing a new/old geopolitical process originating from within Europe itself driving the conflict in Ukraine Posted by: Richard L | Nov 11 2024 15:15 utc | 174 LoveDonbas Posted by: John Archer | Nov 11 2024 16:18 utc | 175 @176 Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Nov 11 2024 16:29 utc | 176
Posted by: John Archer | Nov 11 2024 16:18 utc | 176 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 16:36 utc | 177 @178 Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Nov 11 2024 16:39 utc | 178 No, what is happening in Gaza is definitely Genocide. Trying to ethnically cleanse or exterminate a group of people is genocide by definition. What the Ukrainians tried to do is the same that the other Baltic nations already done, assimilate the Russian population. Have they cracked down on any Russian dissent? Yes heavily and in the process lost all right to govern over them. Posted by: John Archer | Nov 11 2024 17:03 utc | 179 Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 11 2024 13:34 utc | 168 Posted by: Milites | Nov 11 2024 18:09 utc | 180 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:38 utc | 13 Posted by: Milites | Nov 11 2024 18:21 utc | 181
no. the “ukrainians” wanted ethnical cleansing and cultural genocide. just look at all the laws and edicts they have enacted. they want the land, not the people living there. there was no attempt on assimilation. some rada douches even went on ukrainian tv an proudly announced that they want to reduce the population in the donbass to around a million to make it easier to govern. this is a farcry from assimilation. Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 11 2024 18:43 utc | 182
This point of view is confirmed by today’s Starmer & Macron meeting under some stupid pretext — their main topic is to try once more to get the USA to allow Storm Shadow use by Ukraine. It looks like a last desperate attempt to escalate before the Donald enters the White House. Dagmar Henn speculates (quite convincingly unfortunately) that their move only makes sense if Ukraine will use their new missiles with nuclear payload (and Ukraine has that; what they’re lacking are the carriers). If a conventional Storm Shadow (or Taurus) missile hits pre-2014 Russia then that’ll trigger a reaction but not one that’s strong enough to force the USA to counter-escalate. Posted by: Konami | Nov 11 2024 18:56 utc | 183 John Archer | Nov 11 2024 16:18 utc | 176 Posted by: Cynic | Nov 11 2024 19:20 utc | 184
Posted by: Milites | Nov 11 2024 18:21 utc | 182 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 19:33 utc | 185 Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Nov 11 2024 16:39 utc | 179 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 19:37 utc | 186 @187 Jeremy Rhymings-Lang Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Nov 11 2024 19:51 utc | 187 To add to Philologist’s reservations, I’d say it’s clear that the types and quantities of weapons supplied, the strikes and provocations undertaken, have been deliberately calculated to stay below a threshold of controversy that would’ve motivate, amongst other responses, more timely, more beneficial reform.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 11 2024 19:53 utc | 188 Posted by: Milites | Nov 11 2024 18:09 utc | 181 Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 11 2024 19:59 utc | 189 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/netanyahu-trump-election-win-israel-gaza-rcna178956 Posted by: saner | Nov 11 2024 19:59 utc | 190 Dima Military Summary is reporting the Kurakhove dam has been destroyed. It’s on the western edge of the reservoir. The flooding could block Ukro reinforcements from further west from getting to the city. Maybe a big push in that direction soon. Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 11 2024 20:24 utc | 191 Resistance may or may not be futile…
https://regionews.ua/ukr/news/kirovogradshchina/1731324357-namagalisya-spaliti-gelikopter-zsu-sbu-zatrimala-grupu-paliyiv-u-troh-oblastyah (via translation add-on.) Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 20:34 utc | 192 Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 11 2024 20:24 utc | 192
(via translation add-on.) Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 20:39 utc | 193 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 20:39 utc | 194 Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 11 2024 20:58 utc | 194 idiot German politicians could get into even more trouble Posted by: Jo | Nov 11 2024 22:09 utc | 195 as I had posted maybe a week ago…Trump Admin is proposing new elections in Ukraine Posted by: Jo | Nov 11 2024 22:27 utc | 196 @194 Posted by: paddy | Nov 11 2024 22:32 utc | 197 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 11 2024 19:33 utc | 186 Posted by: Milites | Nov 11 2024 22:47 utc | 198 If France and Germany allowed Ukraine to use long range missiles to shoot deep into Russia, how would Russia retaliate ? Posted by: Featherless | Nov 11 2024 22:48 utc | 199
I don’t like explaining actions by stupidity — there’s usually a motive, often ulterior. With Merz/Kiesewetter/Roth/Baerbock and so on, I thought they’d be simply following Washington’s orders (it’s easier for Strack-Zimmermann who may just do this for greed). However, it looks as if we have diverging interests here: there’s not one “Washington” at the moment. Posted by: Konami | Nov 11 2024 22:50 utc | 200 |
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