Ukraine Open Thread 2024-270
News & views related to the war in Ukraine ...
Posted by b on November 10, 2024 at 14:31 UTC | Permalink
next page »Good old BBC trying their best to keep the spirit of the blitz going in Ukraine.
https://bbc.com/news/articles/cp3nv7j1xkxo
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 14:45 utc | 2
Meant to add to my comment that 1,500 Russian soldiers are being killed or wounded every day in Ukraine.
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 14:47 utc | 3
Putin asked Clinton if Russia could join NATO; he said no. Putin asked Obama if Russia could join NATO; he said no. But I think Donny might say "Yes" if asked. From his point of view:
1 - It ends the war almost overnight
2 - It reinforces his position as a "deal maker"
3 - It cements his place in American history
4 - It saves America a lot of money that it doesn't have
From Putin's point of view:
1 - It ends the war almost overnight
2 - It reinforces his position as a 'wise leader'
3 - It cements his place in Russian history
4 - It saves Russia a lot of money and manpower
From Zelenky's point of view:
1 - Who really cares?
What I envision is immediate ceasefire and clean up, supervised referenda letting the people choose who they want for a government, and a gradual integration of Russian and NATO forces.
Who would be pissed off, except for warmongers, and maybe the Chinese?
Posted by: KevinB | Nov 10 2024 14:58 utc | 4
...But I think Donny might say "Yes" if asked.
Posted by: KevinB | Nov 10 2024 14:58 utc | 4
Why wait to be asked? Trump should just include Russia into NATO without her consent, then invoke Article 5 against Ukraine for attacking Russia and invade Ukraine with all NATO countries and conquer it quickly.
And then exclude Russia out of NATO.
I think it's a viable plan, better than yours anyway.
Posted by: Rutte | Nov 10 2024 15:13 utc | 5
Ukraine Weekly Update, 8th November 2024: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-b42
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Nov 10 2024 15:20 utc | 6
Russia doesn't want to be in NATO ...
Anyway ... NATO is dead.
Posted by: crone | Nov 10 2024 15:24 utc | 7
Ukraine is still very strong and the west has no fear of Russia.
Russia is unable to destroy Ukrainian 750 KV network.
That all means that the war shall last long.
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 15:27 utc | 8
"I doubt Russia gets Odessa unless there's a coup or local overthrow of government."
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 10 2024 14:45 utc | 1
In my estimation if Russia does not secure Odessa the entire SMO will have been a strategic loss.
"Meant to add to my comment that 1,500 Russian soldiers are being killed or wounded every day in Ukraine."
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 14:47 utc | 3
Hogwash.
Kindly please show the documentary evidence of your claim.
vargas has won the ," The Most retarded Post I Have Read Today," for an unprecedented 5th time-see below:
"Ukraine is still very strong and the west has no fear of Russia.
Russia is unable to destroy Ukrainian 750 KV network.
That all means that the war shall last long."
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 15:27 utc | 8
Gung-ho Girl Bosses, Interrupted
Working class men of the nation united to defeat Kamala Harris and her neoconservative war party cohort Liz Cheney. But will Trump's victory really spare American men from death in Donbass trenches?
https://www.beyondwasteland.net/p/gung-ho-girl-bosses-interrupted
1,500 Russian soldiers are being killed or wounded every day in Ukraine.Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 14:47 utc | 3
That figure seems extremely high, do you have any links to verify it?
For starters, what are they being killed/wounded with? For some time now there has been repeated reports of severe shortages of ammo and shells on the Ukrainian side, with Russia massively better equipped and supplied, implying the weight of casualties should be hugely in favour of the Russian army. Even using a 4:1 Ukr:Rus casualty ratio your figure would indicate a Ukrainian casualty rate of 6,000 a day.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:38 utc | 13
I don't know if I've already posted this article. I don't think so (old man, memory failing) but if so I'll do it again. It's a very good analysis that I recommend to everyone.
Outtake:
We have noted many times that this war on the part of the Russian Federation, although waged by a bourgeois state, has a defensive character of protection from the imperialist policy of the reactionary alliance of Western powers and contains a positive component. The Russian state, expressing the interests and aspirations of the Russian bourgeoisie to manage natural resources and exploit the labor force, is simultaneously forced to take into account the progressive sentiments of a significant part of Russian society. Russian workers sympathize with the Ukrainians who find themselves under terrorist dictatorship and total Nazi propaganda. Thus, the Russian bourgeois state is forced to suppress fascism and help the national liberation struggle in Ukraine.
RCRP-CPSU: The threatening heel of fascism and the tasks of the communists
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 15:41 utc | 14
Posted by: canuck | Nov 10 2024 15:29 utc | 10
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:38 utc | 13
This figure of 1,500 is from the BBC which I linked to in comment #2.
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 15:45 utc | 15
This figure of 1,500 is from the BBC which I linked to in comment #2.
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 15:45 utc | 15
Maybe they just added an extra zero. :)
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 15:48 utc | 16
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 15:45 utc | 15
But there is no substantiation, just a report of a claim by Sir Tony Radakin, the Chief of Defence Staff.
IIRC the BBC did try to calculate Russian casualty numbers using publicly-available information in Russia such as funeral announcements, eulogies etc. and were coming up with figures much lower than claimed by Radakin. Don’t know if they’ve stopped doing this.
I remain highly sceptical.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:54 utc | 17
Crone@1524
Russia "joining" NATO invoked this cartoon in my mind where this vigorous young man marries a doddering old bat, with an image of the Grim Reaper hovering overhead.
Posted by: aristodemos | Nov 10 2024 16:00 utc | 18
Meant to add to my comment that 1,500 Russian soldiers are being killed or wounded every day in Ukraine.
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 14:47 utc | 3
Maybe in the deadliest days, but even so a couple of comments
250 dead (some by accident as is normal in a war) 250 too winded to return to service 1000 from a ingrown nail to serious injuries but that are good for service in due time.
But as I mentioned, too high numbers even for 2024 (maybe 25% above true average values 1000=166+167+667)
And at least 5 times that for the AFU side
Now let us consider that the last 300 days were as deadly as the previous 700.
So 300k+300k “hit”, but 400.000 cured. 50k+50k died, and as many wounded beyond repair.
Once again , for the afu it’s 5 times those numbers or more
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 10 2024 16:04 utc | 19
Ukraine is still very strong and the west has no fear of Russia.
Russia is unable to destroy Ukrainian 750 KV network.
That all means that the war shall last long.
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 15:27 utc | 8
"Vargas only pawn in game of life." Adapted from Blazing Saddles (Mongo).
Posted by: Mike R | Nov 10 2024 16:04 utc | 20
Zelenskyy should present realistic vision, Crimea is gone – President-elect’s adviser LanzaBryan Lanza, a senior adviser to the winner of the U.S. presidential election, has said that the new administration will focus on achieving peace in Ukraine, not on allowing the country to return territories occupied by russia.
This is what Mr. Lanza said on the air of the Weekend program on the BBC World Service, reports the portal of the British broadcaster BBC.
A Trump adviser since 2016 and a Republican Party strategist said the Trump administration will ask Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to present his version of a "realistic vision for peace."
"And if President Zelenskyy comes to the table and says, well we can only have peace if we have Crimea, he shows to us that he's not serious… When Zelenskyy says we will only stop this fighting, there will only be peace once Crimea is returned, we've got news for President Zelenskyy: Crimea is gone… And if that is your priority of getting Crimea back and having American soldiers fight to get Crimea back, you're on your own," Lanza emphasized.
He did not mention the occupied territories of the east of Ukraine, but said that the return of Crimea to Ukraine is unrealistic and "not the goal of the United States."
It should be noted that Ukraine never asked the U.S. to send its military to fight against russia, it was only about military assistance.
Lanza said he has great respect for the Ukrainian people, describing them as having "hearts made of lions". But, according to him, the U.S. priority is "peace and to stop the killing."
"What we're going to say to Ukraine is, you know what you see? What do you see as a realistic vision for peace. It's not a vision for winning, but it's a vision for peace. And let's start having the honest conversation," he said.
Trump's adviser also criticized the support that the Biden-Harris administration and European countries gave to Ukraine after russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022.
"The reality on the ground is [that] the European nation states and President Biden did not give Ukraine the ability and the arms to win this war at the very beginning and failed to lift the restrictions for Ukraine to win," he said.
https://ukranews.com/en/news/1046378-zelenskyy-should-present-realistic-vision-crimea-is-gone-president-elect-s-adviser-lanza
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 16:06 utc | 21
reply to 8
"Ukraine is very strong" - true, in a sense, otherwise Russians would be in Odessa by now. The problem is, that strength depends on national suicide as policy.
"the West has no fear of Russia" - not true. The EU is freaked out. If the West wasn't afraid, they would give Ukr. long range missiles with no restrictions.
"Russia is unable to destroy Ukraine 750kv network" - now you're being silly. Having wrecked much of the grid, there's no reason they can't take out the rest. It looks much easier than bombing the line of contact and Ukraine lacks air defense, as they admit.
"the war shall last long" - yes, maybe. But to repeat, that endurance is based on national suicide as policy. Can they keep that policy in force? Their demographics lean towards extinction. Somebody better make some babies quick.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 10 2024 16:28 utc | 22
Obviously, it's time for Russia to demote attrition and go for area.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 10 2024 16:34 utc | 23
I knew that Victoria Nuland said on the infamous phone call, (that was ignored by wester media), after she ran through the coup and post-coup plans, that she would run the plans by Biden to get his atta-boy.
I knew that Hunter then got a sweet position of the board of a gas company that was ripping out Ukrainian national assets.
I knew that Biden went to Kiev and threatened to withhold IMF funds unless Porky fired the prosecutor looking into that company.
But I didn't connect the dots with Biden's call to Zelensky, and the ramping up of provocations in Ukraine.
Too many people in the US and Europe like to pretend that the attacks on the people of Donbass started under Trump, so there is no difference in presidents. This is not true, as we know from Jacque Baud.
Alex Krainer connects the dots very well in his discussion with Nima.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbvkF21vuo
Posted by: wagelaborer | Nov 10 2024 16:36 utc | 24
NYT: Russia is preparing a major offensive in Kursk
According to the US newspaper New York Times, Russia has moved 50,000 soldiers to the Kursk region in order to recapture the territories occupied by Ukraine in August. The force is made up of Russian and North Korean soldiers, and the offensive operation is expected to begin soon.
The information is based on information from the American and Ukrainian authorities.
According to the US assessment, Russia has been able to gather an offensive force without having to withdraw troops from eastern Ukraine, which is Russia's primary combat target.
Russian and North Korean forces will probably suffer heavy losses while trying to recapture the Kursk region, NYT writes.
If the attackers manage to push the units of the Ukrainian armed forces out of the Kursk region, Russia will not necessarily stop at the border but will continue to advance deeper into the Ukrainian territory. However, it is unclear whether North Korean forces would then continue to attack Ukrainian soil.
Posted by: Hmbugl | Nov 10 2024 16:46 utc | 25
@21
US new guy is crackers.
USPuppet’s vision is not in play.
What is US vision, of the incoming president
The truth is what the armed power doing the advancing vision of peace.
No change from inside DC
Posted by: paddy | Nov 10 2024 16:53 utc | 26
With BBC we left the UA Harry Potters and their magnificent flying F-16 somewhere behind. Now we are being offered masturbating North Korean soldiers in Kursk.
1,500 Russian soldiers are being killed or wounded every day in Ukraine says some minibriton guy Radakin - well, this highly likely number could wait to be aired with BBC Christmas carols as s nice present for all those NATO victory believers.
Posted by: Josef Schweik | Nov 10 2024 16:53 utc | 27
Posted by: Hmbugl | Nov 10 2024 16:46 utc | 25
Oh dear! Not that North korea bullshit again.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Nov 10 2024 16:54 utc | 28
The North Korean infantry in Ukraine that NATO pretends is happening?
That sort of nonsense doesn't belong on this site, perhaps CNN has a comments section where you can post your lies.
Posted by: visitor | Nov 10 2024 16:57 utc | 29
It is odd that all messages we get back from the hegemon is what the NEXT figurehead may do some 70+ days from now.
There is a major conflict going on, the largest in Europe since WW2 and not a word from those responsible for having fired it up.
Biden, Blinken, Stoltenberg, Macron, Graham, Kallas and Austin are just walking away. Trump should tell publicly that he expects the fjols in power to work on fixing the mess they started. He has no Blake in this.
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Nov 10 2024 17:03 utc | 30
Meant to add to my comment that 1,500 Russian soldiers are being killed or wounded every day in Ukraine.
Posted by: Ogre | Nov 10 2024 14:47 utc | 3
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And you know that how Ogre? Provide some solid evidence that isn't Kiev BS. And while you are at it, provide some KIA and WIA numbers on the Nazi side of the war.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 17:05 utc | 31
"Vargas only pawn in game of life." Adapted from Blazing Saddles (Mongo).
Posted by: Mike R | Nov 10 2024 16:04 utc | 20
If only poor vargas had the self-awareness of Mongo.
Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 10 2024 17:10 utc | 32
Trump just announced no Pompeo, no Haley.
Next up. Control of the Republicans in the Senate.
McConnell "Secret Ballet" No Public Input. Proof Positive McConnell is a Closet Fascist.
Posted by: kupkee | Nov 10 2024 17:16 utc | 33
NYT: Russia is preparing a major offensive in Kursk
According to the US newspaper New York Times, Russia has moved 50,000 soldiers to the Kursk region in order to recapture the territories occupied by Ukraine in August. The force is made up of Russian and North Korean soldiers, and the offensive operation is expected to begin soon.
The information is based on information from the American and Ukrainian authorities.
Posted by: Hmbugl | Nov 10 2024 16:46 utc | 25
-------------------------------------------------------------
You could have stopped right there Hmbug: Your sources are bullshit; if you don't know that, then you are at the wrong site. If you do know, then you are a Troll, or worse, a NED propagandist.
Cheers,
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 17:20 utc | 34
KevinB | Nov 10 2024 14:58 utc | 4
It's such a smart move, I doubt it will occur to Trump's administration. But great instant (24hr!) resolution. Leaves a timetable and the issue of reparations to be sorted but the big issue - NATO - promptly dissolves.
Posted by: Gerry Bell | Nov 10 2024 17:20 utc | 35
Trump has nothing to offer Russia, and domestically, Putin cannot stop the SMO before all goals are achieved.
Anyone who thinks that getting into NATO is a prize, they would be mistaken. NATO is a poisoned chalice and after Ukraine is resolved, I suspect Finland may regret joining an incompetent organization in decline.
Russia has better weaponry, tactics, experience, and in their own style, have met Western ISR with their own capabilities.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 17:29 utc | 36
It's hilarious to suggest Russia would want to or could even, accept an offer to join NATO now. That ship has long ago sailed, thanks to the stupidity, greed and hubris of the dipshits in power. Russia has pivoted East and all the old and long nurtured dreams of the fuckwit brigade about containing China are falling apart faster than mainstream media credibility.
And to think all of this the end result of the corruption and greed of those who intended to impoverish the workers of their own nations in order to have a few more lines of cocaine and another mansion for the parasite classes.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 10 2024 17:30 utc | 37
"...Russian workers sympathize with the Ukrainians who find themselves under terrorist dictatorship and total Nazi propaganda. Thus, the Russian bourgeois state is forced to suppress fascism and help the national liberation struggle in Ukraine."
RCRP-CPSU: The threatening heel of fascism and the tasks of the communists
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 15:41 utc | 14
-------------------------------------------------------
So, Tichy, have you joined the Russian Armed Forces to defend the Ukrainian working class? Or will you do it alone by tilting windmills?
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 17:35 utc | 38
Posted by: paddy | Nov 10 2024 16:53 utc | 26
########
Trump practices Nixon's "Madman Theory". He wants to keep everyone guessing. Bluffing is 90% of Trump's governance style.
When he attacks, it's usually indirectly like sanctions or the assassination of Soleimani.
The problem for him is that Russia is winning on several fronts, and Russians are masters at Chess where detecting and defeating a bluff or gambit is second nature.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 17:41 utc | 39
Posted by: canuck | Nov 10 2024 15:29 utc | 10
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:38 utc | 13
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 15:48 utc | 16
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:54 utc | 17
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 10 2024 16:04 utc | 19
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 17:05 utc | 31
How many times will I have to repeat that reading western merdias is bad for one mental health? Why did you all fall for it?
What ogre reported is the content of the bbc article. Bullshit. Complete bullshit. No quote necessary. Consequence of trump election. The anglonazis ready to support the penis piano player as long as it takes.
And when it is not possible to say that the ukronazis are winning, nor that it is a stalemate, what is left? Russia is suffering huge casualties, not bearable casualties. Propaganda and lies, unsupported lies as we know that if the territorial advance of the Russian army is slow, it is precisely to avoid casualties.
Remember: recent exchange of corpses: ukronazis 563, Russians 37. Ratio: more than 15x.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 17:41 utc | 40
Posted by: canuck | Nov 10 2024 15:29 utc | 10
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:38 utc | 13
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 15:48 utc | 16
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 15:54 utc | 17
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 10 2024 16:04 utc | 19
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 17:05 utc | 31
And you forgot another rule: do not reply to trolls.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 17:42 utc | 41
Eighthman | Nov 10 2024 14:45 utc | 1
Who do you think most Odessians would choose to be a part of?
Posted by: donten | Nov 10 2024 17:45 utc | 42
Posted by: Hmbugl | Nov 10 2024 16:46 utc | 25
Once more: reading western merdias is bad for one's mental health.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 17:47 utc | 43
"Russia is unable to destroy Ukraine 750kv network"
Well, I dunno bro, but my collabo government of The Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia 2.0 says more money must be spared for ukies as a lot of them is about to come as new arrivals soon because of winter is coming along with electricity issues. Plus from The Gauleiterin Ursula von der Pfizer this Protectorate state budget extra money goes for diesel centrals, destination Kyjev, Lwów ....
Hence, allez vous faire foutre, OK?
Posted by: Josef Schweik | Nov 10 2024 17:50 utc | 44
war-gas-lighting is an accepted troll because he plays the role of a punching ball. And everyone is laughing at his stupid comments.
Bing! Bang!
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 17:51 utc | 45
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 10 2024 17:30 utc | 37
It shows how desperate they are. They begin to hit the wall of reality.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 17:55 utc | 46
UK claims of RF casualties are absurd.
More realistic guesstimate:
Take RF MOD daily reports for UKR casualties KIA + WIA since 6 Aug 2024: ~ 2000 - 2500 a day
Divide by 4 or 5 based on POW and body exchange ratios as well as VVP's report
Answer:
RF KIA ~ 100 a day
RF permanently disabled ~ 100 a day
Lightly wounded, will heal and return to combat ~ 300 a day
Still, this is non-trivial. In the last 3 months the RF might have lost up to 10,000 KIA. This would be equivalent to a year of losses for the USA at the height of the Vietnam War. The suffering of the RF is 4 times as intense as the US during Vietnam. This is endurable, but not forgettable or forgivable. VVP is not going to make any sweetheart deals with the combined west after so much RF blood has been spilled.
Posted by: Drifter | Nov 10 2024 18:13 utc | 47
Silly season.
https://t.me/belarusian_silovik/44164
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said that if Trump surrenders Ukraine to Putin, he will personally kick the US out of the alliance.
https://t.me/belarusian_silovik/44161
Former Austrian Foreign Minister Karin Kneissl said that all of today's Ukrainian drone attacks on Moscow were aimed at hitting residential areas.UPD: it was not only about Moscow, but also about the entire territory of Russia
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2024 18:25 utc | 48
We are probably reading too much into the body exchange pow swap data. The Russians are advancing the Ukrainians are in retreat. As the battlefields move to the west the Russians for the most part fan retrieve their dead and capture more Ukrainians. The Ukrainians have to leave their dead and wounded as they retreat. The Russians are clearly winning and are capable of inflicting devastating destruction on Europe's second best army. Let us not forget the Ukrainians are the biggest, best armed, best trained, highly motivated army in Europe sedond only to Russia. It would take Nato forces years to get near the level of the Ukrainians by which time, if they were fighting the Russians, they would be dead.
Posted by: Cavery | Nov 10 2024 18:43 utc | 49
"...Crimea is gone… And if that is your priority of getting Crimea back and having American soldiers fight to get Crimea back, you're on your own," Lanza emphasized.
It should be noted that Ukraine never asked the U.S. to send its military to fight against Russia; it was only about military assistance.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 10 2024 16:06 utc | 21
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Jeremy, I don't think it was only about "requesting" military assistance. When Zelensky sought a peace agreement with Russia in Istanbul in early 2022, the US and the UK demanded that Zelensky stop peace talks. Then, they promised Kiev would receive everything necessary to win against the Russians.
In Zelensky's mind, that could have included U.S. and/or NATO troops on the ground. Otherwise, the West has left Kiev dangling from a rope unless it was willing to sacrifice a whole generation of its young men in a meat grinder they could never win.
Trump may pull back from Biden's proxy war against Russia, but he may also leave NATO dangling from their own rope on the question of EU troops in Ukraine: Is NATO a worthless waste of money and time? That was Trump's position in 2016; it looks like he was correct then, I don't think Trump will let that go unnoticed.
Poor Zelensky had terrible luck: First, the election prevented Biden from officially sending U.S. or NATO troops into Ukraine, then Biden lost the election, and Trump is not keen on sending U.S. troops to save the neo-Nazies.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 18:45 utc | 50
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 | 40,41,43,45, 46
---------------------------------------------------------------- |
Naive, slow down, take a chill pill; what the f**k is your problem?
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 18:54 utc | 51
Sort of OT, but still somewhat relevant:
So we had our Iranian born neighbor and her Nordic boyfriend over for tapas and drinks last night. (Both middle aged with daughters just beginning their medical practices. He's visiting for a few weeks before they both fly back to Europe for the holidays.)
They were telling us the story or how they spent a month taking a drive trip from Turkey to Romania last summer (2023). On a bit of a whim, they decided to head up to Kiev to check out the situation.
The guy - who is a minor car collector - mentioned that other than Monaco, he'd never seen so much wealth and exotic cars on display. (I told him he should hang around Newport Beach some more.) He mentioned a particular type of Range Rover that is a bit specialized and rare - he'd only seen a few before - but he said they were seemingly everywhere.
Now, of course there's no way we're going to engage in any kind of political discussion, so this was conveyed in more of a traditional 'what I did last summer' kind of of conversation.
Still, the obvious take away is exactly what people point out here, which is the Ukraine project has been a multi billion money laundering operation where Benjamins are treated like pennies to those lucky enough to get on the gravy train.
Posted by: markw | Nov 10 2024 18:59 utc | 52
reply to 42
Odessa would choose to be part of Russia, IF THEY HAD a free choice. I think the 4 oblasts are like, 'we'd rather be Russian but probably not risk death for it" - Donbass is different.
This is the problem. I think Odessa has to rebel and shoot some people in charge, not just burn a few cars. Otherwise, it's a real heavy lift for Russia.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 10 2024 19:10 utc | 53
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 10 2024 16:34 utc | 23
##########
Is this a Western ADHD thing? Is this why the West sucks at war?
The Russians are winning easily now. Why would they change strategy?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 19:15 utc | 54
War chronicle up to date:
Yuri Podolyaka reports from his sources on the difficult situation of the armored groups of the 810th Brigade and other units of the Russian armed forces, which began an offensive from Pogrebki towards Malaya Loknya 2 days ago . The enemy also had intentions to attack and withdrew reserves here and near Sudzha, we were probably several days ahead of them.
All liberated villages, from Pogrebki and south to Malaya Loknya, are again under enemy control. Our assault infantry is surrounded in an outer defense, and so far no one can get through to them. The Ukrainian forces located our breakthrough.
In Novoivanovka there were no changes, in the Daryino area a forest belt was taken on the first day, then the offensive stalled.
Posted by: guest from franconia | Nov 10 2024 19:19 utc | 55
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 10 2024 19:10 utc | 53
#########
Odessa is perfect as it is right now.
The Russians, via the partisans, are able to monitor everything the West is bringing in by ship.
Every week now the Russians seem to be sinking a "bulk carrier" in the area loaded with men and ammunition.
Some of you guys don't think strategically.
Russia has been taking the time to do it right, which, again, may be alien to Western minds as the West can't even control Afghanistan after 20 years.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 19:21 utc | 56
Trump has nothing to offer Russia, and domestically, Putin cannot stop the SMO before all goals are achieved.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 17:29 utc | 36
First of all, Trump will restore international trust in the constitutional state of the USA. He will ensure that all US people responsible for blowing up North Stream are convicted as international terrorists. Except for Blinken, of course, he comes to a zoo with other enthusiastic war friends of the US Democrats as a deterrent.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 10 2024 19:23 utc | 57
It is going very slow and difficult for Russia.
The Russian army could win this war but Putin is slowing them down.
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 19:41 utc | 58
Vargas 8 - RF has the capacity to destroy the 750kv network anytime it wishes....at this time it does not wish to destroy the network..........
Besides it has already taken down the vast majority of regular 240/220 system.....it going to be a very cold winter for the corrupt elite in Kieve.....try burning some fancy furniture........oops that is illegal, much like the average Uke attempting to stockpile firewood....
The corrupt regime in Kieve is near an end...............stick a fork in it, the turkey is done......
Posted by: Tobias Cole | Nov 10 2024 19:44 utc | 59
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 10 2024 19:23 utc | 57
Dream on.
Trust, once lost, is in no rush to return.
The US has burned too many bridges, ignored too many agreements, treaties, deals.
Everybody knows that the next election can overturn anything promised in writing.
And now BRICS offers an alternative & the row is banding together, lining up to get on board.
The US is no longer the center of the universe.
Posted by: Mary | Nov 10 2024 19:47 utc | 60
@ Jeremy Rhymings-Lang, §21:
At least Trump recognizes the Russians will be calling the shots.
Probable Russian starting position:
1. The Ukraine will be reduced to the six oblasts around Kiev (Kiev + Zhitomir, Xmelnitsky, Vinnitsa, Cherkasy, Yelizavetgrad). If they´re lucky, they may keep Sumy, Chernigov and Poltava also. This rump state will be renamed Chornarus and offered a referendum on "independence" like Belarus - or all becoming Russian oblasts.
2. All other erstwhile Ukrainian territory east of the 1939 border will become Russian oblasts.
3. Galicia & Bessarabia may be offered as bargaining chips, contingent on the dissolution of NATO. Galicia to Poland and Bessarabia to Rumania.
4. Transcarpathia will be offered a vote on becoming a) independent, b) an exclave of Russia, like Kaliningrad, c) joining Hungary, d) joining Czecho/Slovakia.
5. All NATO offensive weapons and troops to be removed from east of Berlin (as agreed in 1991).
6. Restoration of all Russian assets and interest accrued therefrom.
7. Ending of all sanctions and restoration of normal free trade.
8. Reparations for the destruction of NordStream and other damage to Russian property.
9. War indemnity, which the Russians would agree to drop so that the Donald could claim a win - and clinch the deal.
Posted by: John Marks | Nov 10 2024 19:51 utc | 61
First of all, Trump will restore international trust in the constitutional state of the USA. He will ensure that all US people responsible for blowing up North Stream are convicted as international terrorists.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 10 2024 19:23 utc | 57
########
Right after he releases Epstein's list and de-classifies JFK's murder investigation. 😂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 19:52 utc | 62
@53
Since 2014, I've formed the same conclusion about Ukraine's pro-Russians, most of whom populate the country's south and east, which is historically and demographically Russian.
The pro-Russians'post-1991 history proves that, given the choice, they'd vote to rejoin Russia. This means roughly a quarter of Ukraine's people would stop pretending to be "Ukrainian." It would happen easily, wholesale, on an overnight basis.
But most of these people probably don't regard their cause as something worth dying over. They'll quietly and begrudgingly go along with Kiev's anti-Russian policies if that's what it takes to stay safe.
The exception, of course, is the pro-Russians of Donbass and Crimea, who formed militias willing and able to fight Kiev/NATO's military. But, for whatever reason, it's not so true of the pro-Russians in the rest of east Ukraine and the Black Sea coastal regions.
These are my observations, admittedly those of layman, not an expert.
Posted by: GW | Nov 10 2024 19:54 utc | 63
Here is the outline of a peace deal the RF could live with -
- Crimea - Russian
- Donetsk, Luhansk, Zapa, Kherson, Kharkiv, Odessa, and territory east the Dnieper - Russian
- Immediate Exile for Volo and his corrupt minions
- Azov forces turned over to the RF for trial by fire
- No NATO and EU membership ever.
- Western Ukraine given to Poland and Romania under a neutral status
- Moldova neutralized permanently
- Moldavian Russian provinces become part of Russia
- Serbia awarded the seaport at Split
- Serb Republic of Krajina reconstituted, and those NATO minions who participated in the 'Operation Storm' massacre arrested, tried and executed.
- Serb Republic of Bosnia linked with Serbia in a formal alliance and integrated into the Serb military defense pact.
- Kosovo restored to the Serbian Republic, and all Albanian illegal aliens deported asap
- Montenegro reintegrated into the Serb federation. NATO coup leaders arrested, tried and executed.
Well its a start!!
Posted by: Tobias Cole | Nov 10 2024 19:58 utc | 64
As to how much Putin "trusts" Trump, I read that Russia has been deploying troops to Iran en masse, ostensibly to provide support in advance of a Zionist attack.
America is the Zionist power in the world.
Donald, if he survives to inauguration, will have far fewer choices than he thinks he does.
20 months ago, I was right about Ukraine. 12 months ago I was right about the Zionist occupation.
I'm not saying that I am smart. I am saying the same methodology I used in both of those cases tells me that Trump will be limited internationally, which makes him dangerous because he's a supporter of genocide and has a reputation as an assassin.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 20:04 utc | 65
The Russian army could win this war but Putin is slowing them down.
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 19:41 utc | 58
---
You are so close to getting it.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2024 20:10 utc | 66
So, Tichy, have you joined the Russian Armed Forces to defend the Ukrainian working class? Or will you do it alone by tilting windmills?
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 17:35 utc | 38
I'm 51 years old and I live in Sweden. Apart from that, kindly fuck off along with your cowardly drive-by shootings. Your non sequiturs are a poor mask for your intellectual impotence.
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 20:18 utc | 67
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said that if Trump surrenders Ukraine to Putin, he will personally expel the United States from the alliance.
i dont think this idiot read the job discription. his job is only beeing the mouthpiece, not the decisionmaker.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 10 2024 20:18 utc | 68
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 19:41 utc | 58
I’ve been graceful to you in the past but it’s time for tough love.
You need to get out of your feelings and learn to think objectively. Read Plato, Socrates. Or if that’s too advanced, try RSH or Simplicius the Thinker. They know how to think objectively.
Until you learn to harness the power of the rational mind, you’re stuck in Kindergarten. So either man up or go play with blocks and crayons.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Nov 10 2024 20:21 utc | 69
Addendum, @Ed, you should be thanking me for actually providing substantial articles to the forum. But all you do is fuck around and try to pick fights with a guy who outclasses you on every ideological level, and then run away when I offer battle.
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 20:22 utc | 70
Russia is in no hurry to reach a deal. In fact there is no advantage to be gained now by a quick resolution. Russia will keep nibbling until Kiev capitulates.
Posted by: Kaiama | Nov 10 2024 20:24 utc | 71
No Pompeo but what about Boltonites, Cheyneycons or Necrofelds?
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/67704
As mentioned previously, No Pompeo or Hayley in the new cabinet
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/67712
The art of aerobatics on the Su-57 fighter jet performed by Honored Test Pilot of the Russian Federation Sergey Bogdan in preparation for the demonstration flight program, which will be shown at AirShow China 2024. Zhuhai. November 10, 2024.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2024 20:26 utc | 72
"Addendum, @Ed, you should be thanking me for actually providing substantial articles to the forum. But all you do is fuck around and try to pick fights with a guy who outclasses you on every ideological level, and then run away when I offer battle."
Posted by: Tichy | Nov 10 2024 20:22 utc | 70
You guys deserve each other; why not try to give cogent arguments and then rebut but refrain from these childish ad hominen attacks which only but confirms both your shared immaturities as well as your mutual, self insecurities.
The replies to vargas are telling. His posts are not long, personal, or large in number - ‘a relatively well behaved troll’ as noted by someone else.
It’s almost like his posts are just to bait people in to projecting their own issues…
Posted by: Rae | Nov 10 2024 20:50 utc | 74
If we're speculating on a "max" position by the Russian Federation, then I would add the necessity of a War Crimes Tribunal.
And, this time, unlike with the Nuremberg version after WW2, those who financed and sponsored this odious Nazi regime are included in the list of defendants.
That should put the fear of God into them.
Posted by: NH | Nov 10 2024 20:51 utc | 75
Posted by: Rae | Nov 10 2024 20:50 utc | 74
---------------------------------------------------------------- |
So, do you suspect that Vasgas is a professional troll?
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 21:12 utc | 76
Nov 10 2024 20:22 utc | 70
---------------------------------------------------------------- |
There are no "battles" here on MoA, just comments and responses.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 10 2024 21:17 utc | 77
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 10 2024 19:23 utc | 57
First of all, Trump will restore international trust in the constitutional state of the USA. He will ensure that all US people responsible for blowing up North Stream are convicted as international terrorists.
<=while he is at it, he might arrange the conviction of those who destroyed Libya and Afghanistan, which he promised to do in the Trump1 one campaign. ..I will personally congratulate Trump [send him a thank you note] if he agrees to a restored NordStream II [maybe from the funds taken from Russia at the start of the SMO) and if Trump removes sanctions from Russia, moves the American economy to compete against China instead of preparing America to fight a war against China..
I would be especially pleased if Trump were to hold Biden et al personally liable to repay the American taxpayers all funds sent to support Ukraine (repayment proceeds should go to the benefit of homeless Americans. Leave no American homeless, ever again.).
I believe these things would reduce the price of oil to less than a $1 a gallon at the pump in America, send the economy into high gear, improve economic efficiency enough to resolve the national debt, and lower global gas prices sufficiently to bankrupt those with investments in foreign oil and gas reserves.
IMO, Americas greatest enemies are those Americans who invest in foreign lands. So Trump needs to put in place an export of funds tax to prevent American dollars to be invested in foreign lands.
Posted by: snake | Nov 10 2024 21:38 utc | 78
Posted by: canuck | Nov 10 2024 15:31 utc | 11
Vargassing, means putting him on ignore. It has been advocated by some and practiced by more than a few.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Nov 10 2024 22:19 utc | 79
Trump calls Putin with an ask
Trump in phone call advised Putin not to escalate in Ukraine: Washington PostWASHINGTON, Nov 10 (Reuters) - U.S. President-elect Donald Trump spoke on the phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday and discussed the war in Ukraine, the Washington Post reported on Sunday, citing people familiar with the matter.
Trump advised Putin not to escalate the war in Ukraine and reminded him of "Washington's sizeable military presence in Europe", the Post reported.
During the election campaign, Trump said he would find a solution to end the war "within a day," but did not explain how he would do so.
continues ==> https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-phone-call-urged-putin-not-escalate-ukraine-washington-post-2024-11-10/
Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2024 22:35 utc | 80
>You need to get out of your feelings and learn to think objectively. Read Plato, >Socrates.
>Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Nov 10 2024 20:21 utc | 69
I see no wisdom in war.
Shouldn't it be finished a.s.a.p ?
I am fixated to 750 KV network as it is a way to stop the war without much destruction, without killing people.
Plato and Socrates are too difficult for me. Simplicius is just a Russian propagandist, he is not rational, he does not understand the corporate mind that is ruling the west.
Or, lets say he is rational and does not understand capitalist irrationality.
Philosophy wont help us, but theology or psychiatry could as what I see is a corporate cult of death and its shadow is all over us.
Russia is now paying the price for trying to be a part of the European culture for so many years.
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 22:37 utc | 81
>Trump in phone call advised Putin not to escalate in Ukraine: Washington Post
The west reserves the exclusive right for escalation for itself.
Trump is just another cowboy.
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 22:44 utc | 82
First of all, Trump will restore international trust in the constitutional state of the USA. He will ensure that all US people responsible for blowing up North Stream are convicted as international terrorists.
Posted by: snake | Nov 10 2024 21:38 utc | 78
Thanks for the laugh!!!!
1) It is not terrorism as no people were targeted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage
2) To think that a yankee will go after another yankee for an act of sabotage is imho ludicrous.
3) Should it happen I will apologise. Btw do you remember trump stealing the syrian oil. Still happening now afaik.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 22:46 utc | 83
@80
Already, the threats and bullying have started and it's no surprise. As others here have noted, this guy is a faux Zionist opportunist and he will not stop the war 'within a day' neither will he bring any sort of peace to west Asia, I'm sure he'll be threatening Iran before long.
Some people think this guy is the second coming, but Stephen King had it 100% correct, when asked which one of his many characters Trump most reminded him of, he replied 'Greg Stillson', no spoilers, but if you haven't read or seen the movie 'The Dead Zone', check it out.
Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Nov 10 2024 22:49 utc | 84
Stephen King has probably the most severe case of Trump Derangement Syndrome I have ever seen. He's an idiot.
Posted by: Facekicked | Nov 10 2024 22:57 utc | 85
I hope some folks in the Kremlin are putting projections together concerning Ukraine's probable future. It's conceivable that at some point, Russia could walk away with a DMZ and maximalist goals to be reasonably met.
Let Nazis alone maybe. They prevent most every Ukr. refugee from coming back, fearing conscription and economic misery. Ukraine then never recovers in population size but keeps shrinking. Militarization doesn't happen thereby. All this depends on what they have left to raise children with.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 10 2024 23:01 utc | 86
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 22:37 utc | 81
Yes, the war should be finished as soon as possible from a moral pov. However, this is the world we live in and it is not a moral place. It's a place where chimps with slightly larger cerebellums run the show.
As for your fixation on the 750 KV power stations, we have no idea how that might play out. There are several ways it could go sideways:
1. One of those substations is connected to a NPP and the NPP has to go into a cold shutdown (this seems to be the general theory on why it would end the war - such a huge hit on energy production would return Ukraine to the dark ages, or Somalia.)
However, something goes wrong during the process of taking it offline. Or maybe, something goes right - the madman Zelensky orders the engineers to simply let the core meltdown. I am not a nuclear engineer so I am way out over my area of expertise. But it seems at least plausible that Zelensky could use it as an opportunity to throw the chess board over and do something so awful it creates another Chernobyl. The resultant nuclear disaster is blamed by the West on Russia. It becomes a rallying cry to send NATO troops into Western Ukraine "to protect the poor Ukrainian people."
2. It pretty much works as planned, and half of Ukraine goes dark. However, don't underestimate the capacity of people to endure suffering. Large parts of Ecuador are now going without power for 12 hours a day. Life is going on. People buy generators. Yes, they're noisy, and you need fuel. But you can run a crappy economy on them, and Ukraine's economy is already dog shit. So, it won't end the war, anyways.
These are just a couple examples. Why don't you try playing devils' advocate and working through a few yourself?
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Nov 10 2024 23:01 utc | 87
Just this once supportive of
"
Trump is just another cowboy.
Posted by: vargas | Nov 10 2024 22:44 utc | 82
"
Trump is the perfect leader of empire as it goes down
Patriarchal
Might-Makes-Right bully cowboy
Misogynist
Exceptionalist/Zionist
Narcissist
Lets add stupid to think that releasing the message he says he gave to Putin will help in negotiations.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 10 2024 23:10 utc | 88
Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2024 22:35 utc | 80
Really? Rather another bullshit from the WP merdia. Until now there is no confirmation of that phone call and its contents from the Russian side.
It is ludicrous for more than one reason. It would mean that trump is ready to start ww3 if Russia will "escalate". Btw what is the meaning of "escalate"? To liberate the Donbass, Zaporizhe and Kherson? To destroy the invader in Kursk oblast? To destroy all patriot systems? And there is a long way to go until the 20th January.
While we are at it... CNN, another merdia, said that Pentagone officers are conspiracing agains trump. (My translation of course.)
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:11 utc | 89
Posted by: Facekicked | Nov 10 2024 22:57 utc | 85
And so many have a trump delusion syndrome. It is even more pathetic.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:15 utc | 91
Posted by: PETER__AU1 | Nov 10 2024 23:13 utc | 90
Welcome back!
If it's you of course.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:15 utc | 92
Really? Rather another bullshit from the WP merdia.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:11 utc | 89
---
A story recollected by Hunter S. Thompson
“This is one of the oldest and most effective tricks in politics. Every hack in the business has used it in times of trouble, and it has even been elevated to the level of political mythology in a story about one of Lyndon Johnson’s early campaigns in Texas.“The race was close and Johnson was getting worried. Finally he told his campaign manager to start a massive rumour campaign about his opponent’s life-long habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his barnyard sows.
“Christ, we can’t get away with calling him a pig-fucker,” the campaign manager protested. “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.”
“I know,” Johnson replied. “But let’s make the sonofabitchh deny it.”
Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2024 23:17 utc | 93
Washington Post is reliable for one thing.......spreading the CIA deep state party line....
I would not believe one word emanating from the WPO as far as their sources for the article on DJT phone conversation with VV Putin.
DJT most likely never told VV anything of the sort..........remember DJT detests Volo with a passion, as he and his clones the Vindman brothers orchestrated the first impeachment trial......
Posted by: Tobias Cole | Nov 10 2024 23:20 utc | 94
DJT most likely never told VV anything of the sort
Posted by: Tobias Cole | Nov 10 2024 23:20 utc | 94
---
The only interesting thing is who originated the call.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2024 23:24 utc | 95
Russia is already escalating, they liberated Makarovka.
https://news-pravda.com/russia/2024/11/10/843020.html
Notice: the Russian journal is reporting the WP bullshit.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:37 utc | 96
The only interesting thing is who originated the call.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2024 23:24 utc | 95
Did that call take place? Why would the Kremlin remain silent. Nothing on the tg channel of the Kremlin.
Btw, Putin was Thursday at the Valdai Forum. Very busy indeed.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:45 utc | 97
FUCK OFF VARGAS.
Posted by: PETER__AU1 | Nov 10 2024 23:13 utc | 90
Welcome back!
If it's you of course.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:15 utc | 92
Yes, if it's him, a big welcome back, but ...
As I mentioned in a previous thread, vargas is our very own forest gump, just give him candy and see him droll
others are much worthier of being petered out (BTW I petered one yesterday)
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 10 2024 23:46 utc | 98
Posted by: Facekicked | Nov 10 2024 22:57 utc | 85
#########
Many are idiots. We recently had a member of the bar promote that the American genocide of the natives was their fault because they didn't move out of the way. There are a lot of closeted (and not so closeted) racial supremacists from the Golden Billion among the comment sections.
The tragedy is that their social programming is so deep they never examine their beliefs critically.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 10 2024 23:47 utc | 99
It is becomin funny:
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said that if Trump surrenders Ukraine to Putin, he will personally kick the US out of the alliance.
https://news-pravda.com/world/2024/11/10/842704.html
Posted by: Naive | Nov 10 2024 23:48 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
https://korybko.substack.com/p/the-clock-is-ticking-for-russia-to
This Ukraine apologist seems to drift closer to reality as time passes. I don't think NATO etc are willing to march into Ukraine in the future, anymore than the present - so that's BS. OTOH, he has a general point I've been trying to articulate. Putin can't treat this like it was 'The Thirty Years War". Ukraine is too big and more importantly, willingly suicidal. Frankly, I doubt Russia gets Odessa unless there's a coup or local overthrow of government.
Both sides have maximalist demands: Ukraine wants everything back, Russia wants the Big Three D's (de-nazify, decline Nato, de militarize).
Yeah, it could all shift if the Ukraine army does collapse (and not just You Tube clickbait) or Zelensky goes bye bye. Likewise, if US/EU collapse economically - but, my God, that's a throw of the dice.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 10 2024 14:45 utc | 1