Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 7, 2024
Trump And Ukraine

How will a president-elect Donald Trump handle the war in Ukraine?

I doubt that he will be able to close down the war in 24 hours, as he had promised. I rather think that he will escalate it. As I stated two weeks ago:

I expect the new president to double down on the anti-Russian project in Ukraine …

A new Wall Street Journal piece on Trump's promise does not give me any reason to believe otherwise.

Trump Promised to End the War in Ukraine. Now He Must Decide How. (archived
Foreign-policy advisers close to the president-elect put forth different versions of a plan to effectively freeze the front line

Like in Trump’s first term, different factions are set to compete to influence the Republican’s foreign policy. More traditionally minded allies such as Mike Pompeo, the former secretary of state now in contention to lead the Pentagon, are likely to push for a settlement that doesn’t appear to give a major win to Moscow. Other advisers, particularly Richard Grenell, a top candidate to lead the State Department or serve as national-security adviser, could give priority to Trump’s desire to end the war as soon as possible, even if it means forcing Kyiv into significant concessions.

But what are ways to do that?

One idea proposed inside Trump’s transition office, detailed by three people close to the president-elect and not previously reported, would involve Kyiv promising not to join NATO for at least 20 years. In exchange, the U.S. would continue to pump Ukraine full of weapons to deter a future Russian attack.

Under that plan, the front line would essentially lock in place and both sides would agree to an 800-mile demilitarized zone. Who would police that territory remains unclear, but one adviser said the peacekeeping force wouldn’t involve American troops, nor come from a U.S.-funded international body, such as the United Nations.

“We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European,” a member of Trump’s team said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British and French to do it.

The idea is laughable for several reasons. It does not take Russia's position into account. To continue to arm Ukraine while keeping a ceasefire is an obvious delaying tactic – nothing that will solve the conflict. Russia will only agree to something that concludes the war for good. The assumption that Russia would condone European NATO forces on the ground in Ukraine is also delusional.

Other ideas are just a variant of the above:

Earlier this year, Keith Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served in Trump’s first White House, presented Trump with a blueprint that includes withholding weapons from Ukraine until Kyiv agrees to peace talks with Russia. Ukraine could still try to regain lost territory, but would have to do so through diplomatic negotiations.

The only real way to stop the war is for the U.S. to drop all support for Ukraine. The Europeans would bicker about that but, if only for budget reasons, would likely follow through. It would then be up to Ukraine, having lost all support, to make nice with Moscow.

Trump will likely select (neo-conservative) hawks to run his defense and foreign policies. They will take all possible measures, even against Trump's declared will, to keep the war going. For them it is down to the last Ukrainian, then down to the last European – if only to show that the U.S. will never give up.

To cover for this Trump and his acolytes may well offer an immediate ceasefire. But that will not work.

As Dimitry Trenin, the former director of Carnegie Moscow Center, writes in Kommersant (machine translation):

If we are talking about the cessation of hostilities along the existing line of contact, then this approach is unlikely to be taken seriously in Moscow. Such a "stop to the war" will be nothing more than a pause, after which the conflict will flare up with renewed vigor and, probably, with greater intensity. The nature of the future Ukrainian regime, the military and military-economic potential, as well as the military-political status of Ukraine are of paramount importance for Russia. In addition, it is necessary to take into account the new territorial realities.

All those items would require serious concessions by the U.S. which the future Trump administration will be unwilling to give:

It is hard to expect the Trump administration to agree to a substantive dialogue on these issues, much less to take into account Russia's core interests. If he shows readiness, the dialogue will start, but even in this case, an agreement is far from guaranteed.

There is also the major issue of trust:

A separate topic is what can be considered satisfactory guarantees in conditions when both parties do not trust each other at all. Two "Minsk" agreements (2014 and 2015 agreements) were violated, the third attempt — the "Istanbul" initialed in 2022 — was thwarted, so the fourth one is unlikely to happen. The only guarantee that Russia can rely on is a guarantee for itself.

The only guarantee to Russia is a permanent (conventional) superiority over Ukrainian forces. Any new arms for Ukraine would undermine that. But acknowledging Russia's superiority is exactly the loss the U.S. does not want to concede.

The author of Events in Ukraine comes to a similar conclusion:

Personally, this is what I predict happening if Trump gets into office (if the ‘if’ is even necessary at this point). Trump proposes Putin a ‘compromise deal’ in Ukraine. Putin refuses, given that he’s winning on the battlefield – see my military newsletters. Trump is enraged by this loss of face, and encouraged by his Ukraine hawk advisors like Pompeo (who called for a "$500 billion lend-lease for Ukraine” this July), what does he do next? De-escalate? Hard to believe.

Indeed – hard to believe.

The war will go on. Russia will have to, as Gordon Hahn predicts, cross the Dnieper, retake Odessa and threaten Kiev. Zelenski is unlikely to politically survive such a situation. Other forces would come to the fore:

The pivot of decision-making will then shift to Kiev and the question of whether Zelenskiy or any Ukrainian leader is able to start peace talks at all, no less ones that presuppose loss of territory as part of any settlement with Moscow, without prompting a domestic political crisis. The resulting coup poker game could involve a Kiev-based coup led by intelligence and security forces, the HRU and/or SBU, or emerge from the periphery at the front with ultranationalists and neofascists such as the Ukrainian Volunteer Corps (DUK), Azov, and others, well-armed as part of Ukraine‘s armed forces, turning their guns around and marching on Kiev in order to seize power.

A U.S.-backed coup might pre-empt, precede or facilitate such a turn of events. Washington and Brussels might gamble that easing or allowing the radicals‘ rise to power is he only way to rally what remains of the Ukrainian nation so the effort to hand Moscow a 'strategic defeat‘ can be realized and further NATO expansion can be secured.

But a fascist coup, supported by the U.S. or not, will not be able to change the situation on the ground. Russia would still have the upper hand and win the war.

Only a direct intervention by NATO, could be able to change that trajectory. That however would likely expand the war into a global contest that not even Trump's hawks will want to pursue.

Comments

Posted by: Louis | Nov 10 2024 13:17 utc | 599
So many mistakes, so much crap…
Peter off!

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 10 2024 13:25 utc | 601

https://t.me/rusengineer/5690

Satellite footage has appeared online showing how the approaches from the sea to the Crimean Bridge are being strengthened. I can add, since this has become publicly available, that the work has been visible for a long time; during regular trips across the bridge, you can see how the line of fortifications is growing. And without going into details, I can say that it will surely save against a typical surface and underwater kamikaze BEK. At least, even if there is a flock, it will not be possible to sneak up on them. Moreover, the arch supports above the fairway have also been covered.
Based on this, the main threat to the bridge from the sea has been eliminated. And the quality of the air defense does not give the enemy a chance to hit the bridge with a missile, especially since a single missile will not cause any particular damage. Although, of course, hitting a Storm Shadow-type missile specifically in a support is extremely dangerous due to its double warhead, but they have basically already learned to deal with them, since there have been no effective strikes with them for a long time.

https://t.me/rusengineer/5689

I disagree with the conclusion about the rapid saturation of the enemy’s armed forces with such drones. The fact is that there are serious obstacles to this, namely bottlenecks in supplies. I recently posted how fiber winding is carried out in China, and the nuance is that the capacities of the factories are already loaded for several months in advance. Including due to timely orders from our side. Plus, a huge number of conventional drones have been contracted for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, it is somewhat premature to expect a complete replacement on the battlefield, at least in the next 3-5 months.
Plus, these drones have their own application features, require retraining in piloting practices, otherwise their effectiveness drops sharply. And they are simply more expensive, have a smaller payload mass.
So EW should definitely not be put on the shelf, from the bulk of cheap FPV drones on standard frequencies, it is still necessary. But in addition to it, a set of organizational measures is necessary, the detailed issue of which is no longer for public discussion.
https://t.me/zhivoff/17870

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2024 13:32 utc | 602

Posted by: Louis | Nov 10 2024 13:17 utc
U R residing in an alternative universe if you really believe that dribble

Posted by: dp | Nov 10 2024 13:48 utc | 603

Interesting info about the origins of the “Peppa” secure FPV comms module.
https://t.me/UAVDEV/7519

Friday-Saturday.
I noticed an interesting metamorphosis during the SVO.
At the very beginning of the conflict, all “ours” bashfully hid their faces, were afraid (let’s be honest) of GUR sabotage and generally looked lost. The Ukrainians, on the contrary, showed their faces wherever possible.
Now, on our side, only the military hide their faces. That’s how they are supposed to.
Developers, TG channel admins, assemblers – are less and less embarrassed to show their faces and identify themselves.
And the Ukies, on the contrary, began to hide, give interviews in masks, and from abroad, the howl of ketchup-smeared fighters has long since died down.
But there is another way of self-expression.
You all know about the Peppa connection and how it irritates our Ukrainian friends . But few people know that people who left Russia long ago are involved in the creation of the connection!
These people transfer large sums of money for development free of charge, drag components through grey channels and pay for series of finished products for the front without leaving their bungalows!
In return, they ask for nothing. “Write greetings to the hohols from me” – that’s the entire return on investment. By the way, this is how the local meme ” your ad on our FPV drones!” was born .👍
P.S. Seriously – for the purchase of 500 receivers you can make any inscription on the receivers. Which will definitely reach your opponents!💪

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2024 13:48 utc | 604

Israel is a mental illness masquerading as a state.

Posted by: Blitz Baby | Nov 10 2024 13:53 utc | 605

https://t.me/bayraktar1070/2890

Appeal to the Ukrainian military. Do not hit the cars with civilians! They are being evacuated to a safe place and are clearly visible from the air. Civilians have decided to continue their lives in Russia. This is their choice, accept it and let them go.
Alexander Kharchenko

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/129502

⚔️🇺🇦 Selidovo
Two elderly people were waiting for fighters from Russian “Maksim Krivonos” unit to be evacuated. Unfortunately, they were killed by Zelensky’s criminals.
In this video soldier of the unit explains what was unit’s humanitarian task.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2024 14:07 utc | 606

“Trump will end the War” ( which one )
A big bang will also end some war or other.
don’t be surprised if Trump kicks of the Armageddon thing!

Posted by: MAKK | Nov 10 2024 15:16 utc | 607

The electorate is so exasperated with their termite problem that they chose to burn down their house.
@ too scents | Nov 10 2024 10:00 utc | 589

Perfect metaphor. Spot on.
I’ve attempted, and utterly failed, to frame an appropriate context for discussion of “the electorate” — I usually say “the polity.” But it seems like most posters are still contending over what the US American people do and do not want — as if the 2024 election were not in the rear-view mirror now.
We can stop campaigning now. Nobody cares what you want, if you’re a US American. The title of this thread is “Trump and Ukraine” — in which question the wishes and dreams of the US American polity factor not a whit. In other threads we can diagnose the polity, if you like. But all that has nothing to do with how our tyrants decide to proceed in Ukraine, from here. Stay calm and get real, people, please.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 10 2024 15:20 utc | 608

“ I rather think that he will escalate it”. Fine, but in order to escalate he needs lots of US arms and lots of money. Is he going to go against his rationale to direct cash to the US? Do US have stockpiles of arms ready to be delivered to Ukraine. I don’t think so. Demilitarisation includes all of the West. US can compromise their own security and deliver from their strategic reserves, but they will face problems elsewhere. I don’t think Pentagon will give a permission for that. Think he will press Europe to deliver more arms but that risks breakup of NATO. Besides Europe doesn’t have money. I rather think he will press Zelensky very hard and generate a context to be able to declare a “victory”.

Posted by: Milos | Nov 10 2024 17:53 utc | 609

Regarding Trump and Ukraine and Pompeo and Haley, it looks like Trump’s problem, expeditiously announced on X, was with P&H as presidential rivals, not as hegemonic warmongers. If the bar doesn’t yet understand that dropping Pompeo means practically nothing regarding Ukraine, we soon will. From Caitlin:

The bad news is that other professional warmongers appear to be working their way into the administration. Reports from both Bloomberg and Fox News say the horrible Mike Rogers is under consideration to be the next secretary of defense. The Ron Paul Institute’s Daniel McAdams has a good thread on Twitter calling Rogers “an utter warhawk neocon” who is “arguably worse than Pompeo and Rubio,” noting that Rogers has promoted insanely hawkish positions on Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Iran, and China.

An extreme delusion we encounter, here in the bar and elsewhere, is the silly notion that Trump will make peace in Ukraine while escalating in West Asia. Some people have not yet grokked that it’s all the same (world) war.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 10 2024 18:21 utc | 610

I said repeatedly that anyone who counted America out, or underestimated her unique dynamics was foolish, she’s a young country and like all adolescents capable of royally fucking things up, but also gifted with astonishing potential if wisely and compassionately led.
Posted by: Milites | Nov 7 2024 23:09 utc | 268
By young, you mean recently occupied territory.
Lebensraum.
The people aren’t.
They bought over with them all the hang-ups of the “old country”.
Quite a few european countries, not to mention those on other continents, are much younger.
For example, Germany – Bismark and all that.
Which bring us to the very young Finland.
The “Finlandisation” of Finland, by the USSR was, as with Austria, beneficial to it.
Unlike Mannerheims crawling to Berlin.
The Soviet Union allowed both Finland and Austria to have their own economic system, on the condition that they were neutral.
Thus they both were liberal, democratic and capitalist.
A freedom which which the USA never allowed to any country that it conquered (“liberated”).
I would imagine that Russia would accept a totally neutral Ukrainian state, with Russia guaranteeing its neutrality, based on the successful Finnish model.
I lived in Finland in the early 1970s and they seemed to have a better life than many of us in the UK.
Later, in the 1980’s, I spent a holiday with a finnish friend right on the russian soviet border, for which I needed a special permit as all along the border was a special, restrictive zone – my friend came from that village which was why I was there.
He told me that the relationship with the russian border guards was excellent – coming over and helping in an emergency – such as when someone falling through the ice on the lake.
Thus being neutral would also mean having a restrictive border zone – to stop the occasional NATO sightseers..
Re: NATO
I thought that Yeltsin was joking when he suggested the Russia should join NATO.
Churchill was the USA’s boy (with the King of Canada’s permission, of course)
It was one of the most remarkable events of the 20th century that the prime minister of a country with a huge empire should hand over the command of its military to a general (Eisenhower) of another country – a country which wasn’t even an ally, but had been officially neutral – (no business, like show business..).
There we see the beginning of NATO.
Forget the man in the suit called the “secretary”.
Look at the 5 star (oops- now only 4 star) U.S.American general who is:
Supreme Allied Commander Europe
NATO is a command structure – a military organisation – run, owned and commanded by the U.S.Americans.
President Putin, as he himself confessed, was at the beginning naïve.
But not now.
Can anyone here really imagine Russian Generals (and other ranks) putting themselves under the command of a U.S.American general, who answers to no one but the Command-in-Chief – the President of the United States of America??
Unlike the UK/AUS/Canada and the EU states, Russia is a sovereign state…

Posted by: hh | Nov 11 2024 14:30 utc | 611