Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 7, 2024
Trump And Ukraine

How will a president-elect Donald Trump handle the war in Ukraine?

I doubt that he will be able to close down the war in 24 hours, as he had promised. I rather think that he will escalate it. As I stated two weeks ago:

I expect the new president to double down on the anti-Russian project in Ukraine …

A new Wall Street Journal piece on Trump's promise does not give me any reason to believe otherwise.

Trump Promised to End the War in Ukraine. Now He Must Decide How. (archived
Foreign-policy advisers close to the president-elect put forth different versions of a plan to effectively freeze the front line

Like in Trump’s first term, different factions are set to compete to influence the Republican’s foreign policy. More traditionally minded allies such as Mike Pompeo, the former secretary of state now in contention to lead the Pentagon, are likely to push for a settlement that doesn’t appear to give a major win to Moscow. Other advisers, particularly Richard Grenell, a top candidate to lead the State Department or serve as national-security adviser, could give priority to Trump’s desire to end the war as soon as possible, even if it means forcing Kyiv into significant concessions.

But what are ways to do that?

One idea proposed inside Trump’s transition office, detailed by three people close to the president-elect and not previously reported, would involve Kyiv promising not to join NATO for at least 20 years. In exchange, the U.S. would continue to pump Ukraine full of weapons to deter a future Russian attack.

Under that plan, the front line would essentially lock in place and both sides would agree to an 800-mile demilitarized zone. Who would police that territory remains unclear, but one adviser said the peacekeeping force wouldn’t involve American troops, nor come from a U.S.-funded international body, such as the United Nations.

“We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European,” a member of Trump’s team said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British and French to do it.

The idea is laughable for several reasons. It does not take Russia's position into account. To continue to arm Ukraine while keeping a ceasefire is an obvious delaying tactic – nothing that will solve the conflict. Russia will only agree to something that concludes the war for good. The assumption that Russia would condone European NATO forces on the ground in Ukraine is also delusional.

Other ideas are just a variant of the above:

Earlier this year, Keith Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served in Trump’s first White House, presented Trump with a blueprint that includes withholding weapons from Ukraine until Kyiv agrees to peace talks with Russia. Ukraine could still try to regain lost territory, but would have to do so through diplomatic negotiations.

The only real way to stop the war is for the U.S. to drop all support for Ukraine. The Europeans would bicker about that but, if only for budget reasons, would likely follow through. It would then be up to Ukraine, having lost all support, to make nice with Moscow.

Trump will likely select (neo-conservative) hawks to run his defense and foreign policies. They will take all possible measures, even against Trump's declared will, to keep the war going. For them it is down to the last Ukrainian, then down to the last European – if only to show that the U.S. will never give up.

To cover for this Trump and his acolytes may well offer an immediate ceasefire. But that will not work.

As Dimitry Trenin, the former director of Carnegie Moscow Center, writes in Kommersant (machine translation):

If we are talking about the cessation of hostilities along the existing line of contact, then this approach is unlikely to be taken seriously in Moscow. Such a "stop to the war" will be nothing more than a pause, after which the conflict will flare up with renewed vigor and, probably, with greater intensity. The nature of the future Ukrainian regime, the military and military-economic potential, as well as the military-political status of Ukraine are of paramount importance for Russia. In addition, it is necessary to take into account the new territorial realities.

All those items would require serious concessions by the U.S. which the future Trump administration will be unwilling to give:

It is hard to expect the Trump administration to agree to a substantive dialogue on these issues, much less to take into account Russia's core interests. If he shows readiness, the dialogue will start, but even in this case, an agreement is far from guaranteed.

There is also the major issue of trust:

A separate topic is what can be considered satisfactory guarantees in conditions when both parties do not trust each other at all. Two "Minsk" agreements (2014 and 2015 agreements) were violated, the third attempt — the "Istanbul" initialed in 2022 — was thwarted, so the fourth one is unlikely to happen. The only guarantee that Russia can rely on is a guarantee for itself.

The only guarantee to Russia is a permanent (conventional) superiority over Ukrainian forces. Any new arms for Ukraine would undermine that. But acknowledging Russia's superiority is exactly the loss the U.S. does not want to concede.

The author of Events in Ukraine comes to a similar conclusion:

Personally, this is what I predict happening if Trump gets into office (if the ‘if’ is even necessary at this point). Trump proposes Putin a ‘compromise deal’ in Ukraine. Putin refuses, given that he’s winning on the battlefield – see my military newsletters. Trump is enraged by this loss of face, and encouraged by his Ukraine hawk advisors like Pompeo (who called for a "$500 billion lend-lease for Ukraine” this July), what does he do next? De-escalate? Hard to believe.

Indeed – hard to believe.

The war will go on. Russia will have to, as Gordon Hahn predicts, cross the Dnieper, retake Odessa and threaten Kiev. Zelenski is unlikely to politically survive such a situation. Other forces would come to the fore:

The pivot of decision-making will then shift to Kiev and the question of whether Zelenskiy or any Ukrainian leader is able to start peace talks at all, no less ones that presuppose loss of territory as part of any settlement with Moscow, without prompting a domestic political crisis. The resulting coup poker game could involve a Kiev-based coup led by intelligence and security forces, the HRU and/or SBU, or emerge from the periphery at the front with ultranationalists and neofascists such as the Ukrainian Volunteer Corps (DUK), Azov, and others, well-armed as part of Ukraine‘s armed forces, turning their guns around and marching on Kiev in order to seize power.

A U.S.-backed coup might pre-empt, precede or facilitate such a turn of events. Washington and Brussels might gamble that easing or allowing the radicals‘ rise to power is he only way to rally what remains of the Ukrainian nation so the effort to hand Moscow a 'strategic defeat‘ can be realized and further NATO expansion can be secured.

But a fascist coup, supported by the U.S. or not, will not be able to change the situation on the ground. Russia would still have the upper hand and win the war.

Only a direct intervention by NATO, could be able to change that trajectory. That however would likely expand the war into a global contest that not even Trump's hawks will want to pursue.

Comments

Nothing dirty like existing energy resources. Green is best!
Posted by: frithguild | Nov 7 2024 19:21 utc | 200

It takes a century or more to grow a nice tree.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 19:25 utc | 201

@ watcher | Nov 7 2024 19:04 utc | 193
re: . . . the USA just no longer has the cash to splash
The congress-critters absolutely do have, or will have, the cash to splash — see my 108.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 7 2024 19:33 utc | 202

Where’s Downsouth? Already missing his curated updates.

Posted by: Ansocpol | Nov 7 2024 19:37 utc | 203

Gruff, catdog —
How could Russia possibly be interested in an offer to join NATO? NATO is, after all, a US protection racket: buy lots of worthless US armaments, and maybe the US won’t coup your government.
There’s no benefit whatsoever in Russia’s joining NATO
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 7 2024 19:12 utc | 197
______
Oh, and another thing: NATO accession requires unanimous consent among existing NATO members. (Recall how Sweden had to endure various histrionics from Erdodog before he reliably gave in.) Granted that Poland, Finland, and the Baltlets are just so many yapping Chihuahuas on Uncle Sam’s leash — I still can’t imagine they’d want to be in a situation in which they’d have Russian soldiers doing joint maneuvers on their soil for the purpose of protecting them from . . . whom again?

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 7 2024 19:37 utc | 204

Where’s Downsouth? Already missing his curated updates.
Posted by: Ansocpol | Nov 7 2024 19:37 utc | 203
______
Peter AU1’s continued absence is also concerning.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 7 2024 19:38 utc | 205

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 7 2024 19:06 utc | 195
The question depends upon domestic vs foreign markets of US goods. I agree with the previous poster that the world’s largest consumer market shouldnt be focused on exports. There are plenty of examples of consumers switching to a comparable product in foreign countries in which the costs of domestic supplied goods are cheaper. For that matter, the problem isnt that China’s goods have been so exceptionally high quality that consumers are switching to them. The problem is that China paid their factory workers $7 per day and there was no external costs (i.e. tarrifs) imposed on the bottom feeder US corps for switching labor markets. It is now standard established corporate/Wall Street orthodoxy that a good CFO lays off his US work force and switches labor into China, so their plutocrat shareholders can receive a fat dividend checks. This isnt a dream, it simply takes the very rare politician that understands markets, has the guts to stand up to our Robber Barans and Foreign Leaders, and doesnt need the bribe. Will Trump do it, not sure, but he certaintly expressed his very clear understanding of what I am summarizing to you to the Chicago Economics Club.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 19:40 utc | 206

It takes a century or more to grow a nice tree.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 19:25 utc | 201
As little as 25 years for pine in the US. Not “nice trees” i guess.
To bring this discussion back to on topic, my point is that nearly all government action, wars included, have protection of vested interests as an impetus. Those who view the world in any way like that government acts in their own interest are at risk for worshiping a false god and mass psychosis. Just my 2 cents.

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 7 2024 19:46 utc | 207

Almost everyone from the West who thinks they understand Putin or Russian politics doesn’t account for the Siloviki, which is Russia’s form of Deep State.
They are the power behind Putin. If you have been paying attention to how effective FSB Spetsnaz (Alpha Group in particular) and partisans have been during the SMO, you know that they are not to be trifled with. Spetsnaz quickly snuffed out a NATO incursion into Bryansk the other day and stopped the West from opening up another front inside of Russia with a special forces team assembled from multiple countries. They did it so quickly that it wasn’t reported outside of Telegram.
Sergey Lebedev in Ukraine has been monitoring and reporting internal activity by NATO inside of Ukraine and doing BDA (Battle Damage Assessment) for the Russian Ministry of Defense.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 19:49 utc | 208

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 7 2024 19:38 utc | 205
#############
Peter is someone that I worry about. His health wasn’t well.
I hope he is ok.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 19:51 utc | 209

We all know he wont end it on day one.
NATO et al are still under the impression they will be able to dictate terms.
funny.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 7 2024 19:52 utc | 210

To bring this discussion back to on topic, my point is that nearly all government action, wars included, have protection of vested interests as an impetus. Those who view the world in any way like that government acts in their own interest are at risk for worshiping a false god and mass psychosis. Just my 2 cents.
Posted by: frithguild | Nov 7 2024 19:46 utc | 207
###########
Brilliantly put. Thank you.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 19:53 utc | 211

Ukraine is a NeoLibcon/MI6 Brit/Crypt War. And an optional, never necessary war at that. Trump is never going to own it. And biting the bullet early is his best political choice. Biden can make a deal with Trump to close it down or test that theory that a Criminal, currently in the White House can pardon himself.
At great political risk, Trump took the position that Bush’s Iraq War was an egregious error and that Afghanistan was not winnable, even if it meant only hanging on to Bagram.
Moreover, Trump and everyone else who isn’t a blind WarRat can see no solution in more funding and killing of Ukrainians.
Trump’s original economic plan in 2016 was to grow the GDP faster than the debt in order to prevent the human crushing of an economic depression. So if Trump is going to save the American economy and ultimately the American Republic, then Ukraine is going to have to kiss and make up to Russia, even if it means chopping off both legs. Trump is not going to forget how much Zelenski helped his enemies during that farce of an Impeachment.

Posted by: kupkee | Nov 7 2024 19:55 utc | 212

It’s rather hair-raising to observe how many people jump in joy at Trump and Musk’s victory, as if the zios, “deep state” and other assorted elite haven’t been setting them up this whole time.
Quite similar to watching people run gleefully off the cliff with their newfound medical religion in 2020. The level of stupidity required to believe in Trump’s “assassination attempts” and Musk’s moronic, grade school level social engineering “limited hangouts” is astounding. Astounding.
How much did we lose (in money, rights, freedom, peace, environment, future) during the last Drumpf season? How much are we going to lose this time?
Of course Trump is better for the elite than Harris. Why? Because 90% of people who still had working brain cells will now turn those remaining cells off for the next 4 years, trusting whatever “white hat” fantasy they’ve been conditioned to believe.

Posted by: Jack M | Nov 7 2024 19:55 utc | 213

In the second half of today’s Hudson/Wolff discussion, the main topic was the decline of the Outlaw US Empire and the forces surrounding it. It also happens that today is the last day of the Valdai Club’s annual session which is capped by its plenary session at which President Putin speaks. I’ve just begun reading the transcript but agree with his introductory framing and how it relates to what Hudson/Wolff see as required to politically alter the USA’s direction. Here are his opening two paragraphs:

I am very happy to welcome you all to our traditional meeting. I would like to immediately thank you for participating in the sharp and informative discussions of the Valdai Club. We are meeting on November 7, which is a significant date for our country and, one might say, for the whole world. The Russian Revolution of 1917, as well as the Dutch, English, and Great French Revolutions in their time, became to a certain extent milestones in the development of mankind, and largely determined the course of history, the nature of politics, diplomacy, economics, and social structure.
You and I also had the opportunity to live in an era of radical, in fact, revolutionary changes, not only to comprehend, but also to be direct participants in the most complex processes of the first quarter of the XXI century. The Valdai club, almost the same age as our century, is already 20 years old. In such cases, it is often said, among other things, that time flies imperceptibly, quickly, but in this case you can not say so. These two decades were not just filled with major, sometimes dramatic events of a truly historic scale – a completely new world order is being formed before our eyes, unlike what we know from the past, for example, the Westphalian or Yalta system. [My Emphasis]

IMO, Putin is 100% correct–this is a revolutionary age because the transition from the Age of Plunder to the Age of Mutualism makes it so. Now, it’s time for lunch.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 19:59 utc | 214

@ Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 19:40 utc | 206 quote –
“It is now standard established corporate/Wall Street orthodoxy that a good CFO lays off his US work force and switches labor into China”
hasn’t that been the standard practice since the 70s?? to think trump is going to change direction on this is nice, but as someone upstream pointed out – it has taken putin 30 years to turn things around in russia… same deal in the usa at this point.. better late, then never though.. getting a robber baron to go after other robber barons is a fun idea though..

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 20:03 utc | 215

Ukraine is going to have to kiss and make up to Russia, even if it means chopping off both legs.
Posted by: kupkee | Nov 7 2024 19:55 utc | 212

The bagholders for the Ukraine adventure are in the West. To the resolve Ukraine situation Trump will have to screw those guys. The call is coming from inside the house.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 20:07 utc | 216

IMO, Putin is 100% correct–this is a revolutionary age because the transition from the Age of Plunder to the Age of Mutualism makes it so. Now, it’s time for lunch.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 19:59 utc | 214
I would find unlikely that will come to be without episodic plundering, but yes, china through its history has been a prime example of developing without significant plunder, it should be possible (though often more isolated than mutualistic, the temptation to “why care about them?” is strong when you don’t plunder others)
Now for some OT, or not:
DownSouth, get back here please, we miss the updates and the elections are over.
Peter AU1, at least let us know if you’re (reasonably) well, several of us are getting worried
B though your work seems at the normal level, could you let us know how far your mending is? We worried when things went badly and would like to know if you’re well 😉
To all the regulars (even some pet trolls) have a nice day/evening/night

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 20:08 utc | 217

Winter storm earliest blizzard conditions – no power but I have wood. Lovely neighbor helping. Hope the political negatives don’t happen but just the people are fired up, won’t accept more of the same. Love to all.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 7 2024 16:07 utc | 115
Keep warm, J. We’re thinking of you.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 7 2024 20:10 utc | 218

malenkov @197: “There’s no benefit whatsoever in Russia’s joining NATO”
There is benefit for NATO.
Russia has just annihilated NATO’s strongest de facto military force a couple times over. Getting that military power on their side (if you can’t beat them, then get them to join you) would be quite the win for NATO. The Russians might feel safe from NATO if they represent the biggest (effective) military force in that organization.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 20:18 utc | 219

malenkov @197: “There’s no benefit whatsoever in Russia’s joining NATO”
There is benefit for NATO.
Russia has just annihilated NATO’s strongest de facto military force a couple times over. Getting that military power on their side (if you can’t beat them, then get them to join you) would be quite the win for NATO. The Russians might feel safe from NATO if they represent the biggest (effective) military force in that organization.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 20:19 utc | 220

Israel and Netanyahu took advantage of the interregnum before Obama’s first inauguration to attack Gaza in what then seemed outrageous (although nothing nearly as bad as has happened over the past year). I think that was Operation Cast Lead at the end of 2008.

Posted by: Lysias | Nov 7 2024 20:21 utc | 221

I cannot imagine Russian public opinion being willing to tolerate joining NATO at the moment.

Posted by: Lysias | Nov 7 2024 20:25 utc | 222

Granted, Trump is a Zionist, Capitalist, Imperialist billionaire. I’ve never voted for him, but was strangely relieved Kamala lost.
Nonetheless, a few points on how he might deal with the Ukies.
First, his first term he was totally paralyzed by an unprecedented attack from intelligence, media, courts, etc, etc. Nobody in that position could do much, but survive. So we don’t really know what a Trump administration will look like with no apparent obstacles, except of course the intelligence agencies, which are formidable. Six ways to Sunday and all.
Second, he campaigned very hard and consistently on ending the Ukraine debacle. Yes, he’s a bullshit artist, but he’s also a brand. He loves himself and wants others to feel that way too. To break such a big promise would certainly disappoint and indeed anger many of his most ardent supporters. He could just install Pompeo and let him handle it. But, he now has the power to make good on his campaign promise and given he has nothing to lose, he just might.
I agree with B on the best way to solve it. Just cut all funding and leave the Euro cucks to deal with the fall out from their child like dependence on the Dems.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 7 2024 20:26 utc | 223

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 7 2024 16:02 utc | 108
Money spent on Defence is not always money for Ukraine. The US is struggling to produce weapons in quantity, and what there is will be kept for the war on China or on Iran – or just conceivably US defence.
I accept that Trump will spend as much as he can on defence/aka the military but he is going to have to fix the navy as highest priority if there is even a chance against China and with the Boeing catastrophe delivery of more warplanes seems difficult.

Posted by: watcher | Nov 7 2024 20:28 utc | 224

Since about the mid-80s last century, most of the American manufacturing capacity that forged the basis of the country’s unquestionable post WW2 hegemony has been moved offshore, to start with almost exclusively to China. The Middle Kingdom opened up for foreign investment some six years after the death of Mao in 1976, the Japanese firms in the auto and high-tech industries were the first to spot the opportunity to slash the cost of manufacture massively, with Chinese labour rates about a twentieth of theirs, and almost a tenth of Western ones.
Only one sector of the former American manufacturing might remained largely onshore in America – the design, manufacture and servicing of the military hardware and related software, the sector usually called the military/industrial complex. 
Even today, the tools of killing are still produced to a large extent domestically, the 1,000 plus companies engaged in it can be found in each one of the fifty states of the Republic, the sector being the second largest contributor to GDP and employs, by the broadest definition (from the supply of military boot laces to serving in the military), close to 15% of the US workforce of 160m.
Every 401(k) pension plan of those in employment in the Republic has in it the stock and shares as well as the debt (mostly corporate bonds) of the companies involved in making or servicing the military gear. These pension plans hold well over $6.0 trillion in assets on behalf of the roughly 60 million active holders of the plans. The pension assets of those already retired, from which one’s monthly income is drawn, have a very similar profile – the equity and debt of the military/industrial complex companies form their largest part. 
Could any American politician seriously argue for the curtailment of the military/military sector’s hold on the America’s governance, and her foreign policy in particular, if the outcome were to inevitably lead to much reduced employment, a noticeable cut in the value of individual pension plans, and above all the loss of the remuneration and benefits in kind for the top layer of the military companies’ managements and the multiplicity of advisory boards, non-executive directors and such like, the positions frequently occupied by a myriad of former politicians and the top federal or state employees? 
It may seem too simplistic to explain the imperialistic nature of America’s foreign policy by the clout the military/industrial complex exercises on the governance of the Republic by its significance for the America’s economy at large, and by its unquestionable buttressing of the US’s flailing hegemony, but the evidence points solidly in that direction. Sad and dangerous to the world as it maybe, it is true. 

Posted by: Baron | Nov 7 2024 20:30 utc | 225

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 20:03 utc | 215
Treasury can certainly develop policies that change corporate behavior through incentives and disincentives; they are very smart people. Trump’s The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017 created disincentives for US manufacturers to offshore intellectual property and their workforce, and it worked, the tax attorneys in that area had to swtich fields because that line of business dried up. Corporate inversions are dead too.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 20:36 utc | 226

Americans know for damn sure what side the bread is buttered on, and where their extra serving comes from.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 18:26 utc | 177
Americans think they are rich because freedom and free enterprise. The wars and empire are just the toy soldiers they get.
It never crosses their minds that they are rich because of slavery, blood, war, deception and empire, and the freedom the toys.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 7 2024 20:36 utc | 227

james @171: …your thoughts on the cia having a say in any of it?? or, the triple complex of military, banking and energy?? you really think these corporations and institutions are going to help trump in any way?? it isn’t just about trump negotiating with russia – a very big if, but also that he will negotiate with the folks in the usa running things at present…”
The CIA will try everything they can to sabotage any such agreement. Think assassination of Soleimani when Trump was trying to balance things in the region. More terrorist attacks on Russian civilians, I would imagine.
The military doesn’t actually want war. It would be the civilian military industries (Raytheon, LockMart, Northrop Grumman) that would bitch loudly, but not so much as you might imagine. They already have lucrative contracts locked in for many years to come. Any more and they will be forced to make big capital investments. They don’t want to do that right now.
Big finance isn’t going to be showing Trump any love anyway. They are on the wrong side of the current capitalist schism.
Big energy? Their interests are a little more complicated so more pondering is necessary before I will venture a guess as to which way they would push.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 20:40 utc | 228

Posted by: Baron | Nov 7 2024 20:30 utc | 225
good analysis. I’ve never really said it before, because I have not gathered the strings to tie the theory together, but I think many bewildering questions about Russia and USA can be answered as looking at the conflict as primarily between two arms dealers.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 7 2024 20:46 utc | 229

Peter AU1, unimperitor, and Down South, your posts are missed.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 20:50 utc | 230

Posted by: guest | Nov 7 2024 18:26 utc | 178
Those “conditions” are not even worth reading. Elephant shits.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 7 2024 21:01 utc | 231

If Trump is anything but an idiot he will blame the whole Ukraine affair on Biden/Harris and shut it down on whatever terms Putin offers, Putin will to try to make it comfortable for him.

Posted by: Hg | Nov 7 2024 21:03 utc | 232

B the right winger has spent 3 years telling us how he likes Trump now after Trump wins he tells us the truth, Trump the fascist gangster is going to be a worse Imperial dictator than Joe Biden.
Why anybody in their right mind would impute egalitarianism, peace and freedom of individuals and nations to an authoritarian like Trump is beyond me. The world has jumped from the frying pan into the fire, and we need to understand that.
Trump will undermine and attack Russia to attack China, his real enemy. He will ruthlessly subvert Russia, economically, diplomatically and militarily. It can get worse for Russia; Russia is one country against 32 and the world’s No.1 superpower. Just like Trump was fond of playing White House staff against one another during his first term he’ll play Russia, China, and NATO countries against each other no matter the carnage. Trump doesn’t understand any fancy concepts only power, domination and hierarchy like a mafia boss. They’ll be more war under Trump than now. ” Oh but he’ll come to his senses once he understands BRICS, the rise of China, American Imperial decline, and the new multi-polar world. NO, HE WON’T!

Posted by: Bakunin17 | Nov 7 2024 21:06 utc | 233

@karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 19:59 utc | 214
a snippet from the meeting you referenced –
“F. Lukyanov: Vladimir Vladimirovich, do you use the Internet yourself?
V. Putin: You know, in a very primitive way – sometimes I press a few buttons to see something.”

Posted by: Ново З | Nov 7 2024 21:07 utc | 234

@ Baron | Nov 7 2024 20:30 utc | 225
thanks for the detailed analysis of that.. appreciated..
@ Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 20:36 utc | 226
thanks… he has a lot of expectations to fulfill and i can’t imagine he getting to it all, but we’ll see what he tries to chew off soon enough..
@ William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 20:40 utc | 228
thanks william.. i was thinking of the military industries when i said that – military complex essentially run by private corporations which coincidentally pay into the pension funds as @ baron 225 notes… i think it is a big ship to turn around in a different direction, but maybe it is possible.. whoever tried to do it would have to be very dedicated to the task.. i am not sure trump has that type of focus or stamina, but if he cuts off the financing for the ongoing war on ukraine, it will be very great to see.. i kind of doubt it, but i would love to be surprised…
@ UWDude | Nov 7 2024 20:46 utc | 229
maybe, but 2 arms dealers with a very different history, and future goals and etc. etc.. and one of them is really trying hard to screw the other one by starting conflicts in their backyard 24-7…. there are a lot of factors that feed into it all… it would be nice if the usa just played in it’s own backyard, but they have never shown a tendency to do this – in fact just the opposite. but a change of direction would be very welcomed!

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 21:09 utc | 235

Ukraine is going to have to kiss and make up to Russia, even if it means chopping off both legs.
Posted by: kupkee | Nov 7 2024 19:55 utc | 212

The bagholders for the Ukraine adventure are in the West. To the resolve Ukraine situation Trump will have to screw those guys. The call is coming from inside the house.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 20:07 utc | 216
In 2016 Trump did not control the U.S. Senate which was infested with Trump haters. And all Trump’s Cabinet required Senate approval. Today Republicans control the Senate and McConnell is soon going on a hunting trip with Cheney.
In 2016 the U.S. House Leader was Deep Stater/Fox/Murdoch ass slurper Paul Ryan, who stiff-armed every Trump move needed in the House. We’ll know if the Republicans control the House in the next 24 hours. If they do then Trump’s team has the Administration, the Senate, the House and a majority of the Supreme Court. Even FDR didn’t have the Supreme Court.
And yes, Trump could fumble the ball, but in his heart I don’t see a Hater, I don’t see a guy who wants 4 years of USELESS, ENDLESS WARS.
FWIW, I see the majority of American Jews appalled as to how Netanyahu has put all Jews into the crosshairs with his suicidal agenda in Israel, so Trump can shorten BooBoos leash and still have the support of American Jews.
Perhaps you’ve noticed Trump has put Miss Lindsey outside on the porch.

Posted by: kupkee | Nov 7 2024 21:11 utc | 236

Posted by: Baron | Nov 7 2024 20:30 utc | 225
The problem as I see it is that the USA has off-shored so much that it is a huge importer of manufactured goods (excluding defence). Trump is right to try to bring manufacturing back. This is the rights thing for the USA but lousy for the rest of the world.
Now there is conflict. Trump will try with tariffs and incentives and outright importation bans but the rest of the world is stronger and may just side step it. However whatever way you look at it some money in the US economy must be diverted to general manufacturing and that probably will reduce the investment money available for the military.
Unless of course some of the ridiculous portion of the economy in the FIRE sector is diverted. This also is almost an impossible task.

Posted by: watcher | Nov 7 2024 21:11 utc | 237

further to Ново З | Nov 7 2024 21:07 utc | 234
The photo with the transcript fits perfectly with my quote from it!

Posted by: Ново З | Nov 7 2024 21:13 utc | 238

Humanity, as always, creates new paradigms on the fly, and then adjusts the scenarios: no current war will have an end, the trafficking of fighters is easier and cheaper than ever, from anywhere in the world. Ukraine will cease to exist as a nation when Ukrainians cease to exist, but the war will continue. The dynamics of capital, population and raw materials only work if there is a permanent correction factor, such as a large-scale war. Trump only accumulates elements of negotiation, and the contracts that pass from the Biden family to his hands will remain unchanged, that is, in the long term, war, as a business, will be expanded on a larger scale.

Posted by: Santi | Nov 7 2024 21:30 utc | 239

So I have spent the last day reading comments on the “Trump friendly” boards I frequent.
Facepalm. A big one.
The already lowering expectations rationalizations about how “Trump might not be able to…”, and the optimistic “Trump will be our savior…”, despite previous performance, are depressing. I thought it was just the Blue folk who were completely detached from reality. Apparently not.
Maybe I am being too cynical? That is what I was told last time Trump got the job promising to ‘drain the swamp’. That went well, right?
Slightly better than Kamalahoe? Probably. But slightly better than awful is still pretty awful.
“If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal”

Posted by: saner | Nov 7 2024 21:33 utc | 240

Posted by: Not Ewe | Nov 7 2024 16:13 utc | 117
“This aint about voting, this aint about lame ducks. You simply failed to grasp what I said. This could be intentional, could be a blind spot.”
“This is one of ultimate moments in American history, particularly in regards to the two party racket, consolidated media and secured information.”
Thanks for the insight. I’m thinking about the possibility that all of the wild speculation on MoA is due to most who are stuck in the Left vs. Right, Republican vs. Democrat paradigm. What if Trump isn’t out to build up the Republicans and squash the Democrats? It’s possible that Trump wants to tear down the old system and create a new reality, made up of new alliances of voting blocks that used to be on different sides of the divide. Kinda like the way Putin wants to create a new Multipolar reality based on BRICS alliances. Maybe that’s why Trump has brought in Tulsi Gabbard, RFK jr. and Elon Musk. This is his chance to remake the whole political structure in America and leave a lasting legacy. After all, what does he owe the RINOs and the Neocons after the way they treated him last time? I don’t think he wants to negotiate with the System, I think he wants to defeat the System.

Posted by: Paranaense | Nov 7 2024 21:39 utc | 241

Regarding NATO, it seems quite clear to me that Ukraine will get nothing but promises, and will not stop begging… The fact is that a Ukraine in NATO would be subject to “clear” rules but would also generate commitments for its counterparts. The Big Business of these days, which means renewing the entire arsenals and obsolete logistics through a third country, while at the same time obtaining guarantees in wheat, coal, people, or whatever else, with a negligible political cost and irrelevant or non-existent human losses, needs a context of freedom of movement.
That freedom and speed, that ease of not having to give an account, would be reduced for all parties, under the scheme of the formality of the umbrella of the Organization and the state responsibilities generated by binding treaties, subject to constant and exhaustive review.

Posted by: Santi | Nov 7 2024 21:40 utc | 242

We will know once we see who his Cabinet picks are. If he keeps Tulsi, RFK and Elon then we’ll know he is sincere.

Posted by: Paranaense | Nov 7 2024 21:42 utc | 243

“NeoLibcon” – kupkee 212
I like it; better than the non-nonsensical term “neocon” as these people/policies are neither “new” or, “conservative”. Also since “neocons” are almost always “neoliberal” the two terms could use an update.
Hopefully, Russia understands that possession is 9/10th of the law and is therefore willing to make the human sacrifice necessary to do what needs to be done by the time Trump takes the oath. It’s a “give-me” if Trumps negotiations take place after a fait accompli is already established; if the Russian portions of Ukrainia are secured then the required security zone/terms is the only outstanding issue. Putin should try to make it easy for Trump to end the war by securing the required territories a priori to taking the oath.

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 7 2024 21:44 utc | 244

Agree Paranaense 243

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 7 2024 21:45 utc | 245

Trump promised to end the war quickly. There are only two ways to end a war. A. Surrender. B. Defeat the enemy. If Trump cannot surrender without looking like America lost, he may very well double down and bluff that he will attempt to defeat Russia. His negotiating tactic with China and NK was to make a big threat and then try to negotiate by offering to take the threat off the table. He will probably do the same with Russia. However, Biden already destroyed Nordstream. I do not see an obvious threat that Trump can use that Putin will take seriously.

Posted by: Rhinoskerous | Nov 7 2024 21:53 utc | 246

Ukraine isn’t alone in revision and reevaluation post election.
Panic! Run! Hide! Quick, make it all go away. Aaaaaaaagh!
>…~ VICTORY! Trump Conviction To Be THROWN OUT by NY Judge After LANDSLIDE WIN, ALL Legal Cases IMPLODE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drySTbg_bRg
>…~ Department of Justice Exit Strategy Underway in Trump Case
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMvZMnJhfSk
Malevolent Lawfare is all fun and games…. Until someone loses an election.
~~~~
Aussie pollies join the Panic:
>~ US Ambassador Kevin Rudd deletes social posts criticising trump | 9 News Australia
>…~ Lara Trump on Kevin Rudd’s future as US Ambassador if Trump wins election [spoiler#1. Lara said maybe they’d prefer a change in ambassador. Spoiler #2. Trump won.
Rudd: Fug. The “too big to rig”, and bugger, I’ve lost me gig.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Nov 7 2024 21:57 utc | 247

Peter AU1, unimperitor, and Down South, your posts are missed.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 20:50 utc | 230
unimperator posted a couple days ago.
Peter, considering some of his posts, I would just guess he got too weak to post a “final good bye” here.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 7 2024 22:13 utc | 248

Actually, there is a good deal of research on the harmful impact of tarrifs.
What populists don’t understand about tariffs (but economists do)
https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/2024/what-populists-dont-understand-about-tariffs-economists-do
Cass believes that the experiences of developing Asian nations and pre-World War I America demonstrate the value of tariffs in spurring manufacturing. However, these economies were all primarily agrarian, with large supplies of rural labor available to move into manufacturing, hardly a model for the United States today. The value of tariffs in these industrializations as opposed to other factors such as export promotion is unclear. Even Alexander Hamilton, the first US Treasury secretary and a strong advocate of policies to promote American manufacturing, preferred relatively low tariffs.
Getting a 21st century American teenager back into the factories will never happen.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 22:13 utc | 249

Rhinoskerous | Nov 7 2024 21:53 utc | 246
“Trump promised to end the war quickly. There are only two ways to end a war. A. Surrender. B. Defeat the enemy.”
C. Cut off the hohol scum cold turkey, dump them and walk away, while blaming them, Europe and the Democrats.
That’s of course the best option for America, but there’s zero chance it will be taken.

Posted by: flying dutchman | Nov 7 2024 22:16 utc | 250

I have read much analysis and prediction on Trump that says, “this is his second term, he has nothing to lose”
He already lost billions. He still has his entire business empire and family to lose.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 7 2024 22:16 utc | 251

If Trump tries to do a deal in Ukraine – it won’t be easy at all.
Russia has repeatedly said that each escalation or non-acceptance of negotiation will result in a harder position. By now, that must mean full de-nazification, full and permanent disarmament, full and permanent neutrality, full and permanent acceptance of Russian gained territory, full rescinding of sanctions and full restitution of stolen funds – possibly even the incorporation of the Black Sea coast and Odessa. Can Trump swallow (or be allowed to swallow) that?
Not very likely.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 7 2024 22:17 utc | 252

Hopefully, Russia understands that possession is 9/10th of the law and is therefore willing to make the human sacrifice necessary to do what needs to be done by the time Trump takes the oath.
Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 7 2024 21:44 utc | 244
This makes the assumption that Russia is even going to negotiate with Trump, or needs to… …they do not.
It also makes the assumption that Putin wants the war to end as soon as possible… …he may not.
A few here predict this war going on until 2030, that would be two years after Trump, and whoever is president then, I just dont think will be able to do anything but bend the knee to neocons. They will always be the most powerful force in America, because the economy relies on right wing welfare… …aka defense industry jobs.
An “flash offensive, no matter the costs” to take as much ground as possible could be disastrous, and a sign of Russian weakness, and a sign theu fo not believe they are in full control of the Ukrainian war. I believe they are in complete control, so I would predict that a foolhardy lad grab for negotiating position should mot, and will not happen.
This slow, cruel grind, which never stops, shows a determination of steel.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 7 2024 22:24 utc | 253

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 7 2024 22:17 utc | 252
And removing all sanctions, and freeing all frozen Russian assets, and restituting the stolen incomes from those assets.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 7 2024 22:26 utc | 254

As for the idea floated above about Russia joining NATO – ridiculous, delusional, insane – that bird flew away long ago. The utter and proven lack of truthfulness, and ingrained hostility of the west towards Russia ensures that it won’t fly back. Plus there are the well established close ties with China, Iran etc. and the fact that the US is on the way down, into the dustbin of history, while China, Iran, Russia etc are decidedly on the way up

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 7 2024 22:27 utc | 255

Iran did a deal with america, even allowing nucular inspectors from the west full acsses to Irans nucular plants, as far as i remember trump, abortraraly threw the deal out.
America is non negotiatable.
With no repeat no integraty.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 7 2024 22:29 utc | 256

A few here predict this war going on until 2030…
Posted by: UWDude | Nov 7 2024 22:24 utc | 253
Lavrov hinted that the SMO could last 20 years. Time is working for Russia. Attritions works. Political and economic crisis in France and in Germany.
All western predictions failed. They are really stupid.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 7 2024 22:31 utc | 257

Trump knows what Mr Putin wants, the removal of Nato nuclear warheads from Russia ‘s immediate neighbours.
The policy totally failed and a million men and women died in the process.
Trump obviously understands that this is the stated aim of Western policymakers, to reduce the world population and simultaneously to acquire more wet, fertile land from which to feed people with his ideas.
Azov is as expendable as ISIS, and needs to be destroyed. Why not give Russia the Green Light to do it, de-nazification, and also withdraw Nato nukes from places like Poland, in exchange for Ukrainian land West of the Dmiepr?
The nukes were probably Trump’s original idea to acquire the agricultural land for the US. They’ve already bought up most of Europe already.
Trump hasn’t been brought back to by voters.
He’s been brought back by Zionist Nazi Neocons to finalise land deals after appalling wars. I hate them all for their greed and obsession with land.
But que sera , sera.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 7 2024 22:43 utc | 258

@Baron | Nov 7 2024 20:30 utc | 225
Thank you. Very useful – you have placed some neat realist flesh on the MIC skeleton.
Messing with it is more or less suicidal …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 7 2024 22:43 utc | 259

Actually, there is a good deal of research on the harmful impact of tarrifs.
What populists don’t understand about tariffs (but economists do).
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 22:13 utc | 249
It is pretty well understood that the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act was a precipitating factor in the great depression. Black Friday took place when it moved out of committee certain to pass. Ot was made worse by a cascade of retaliatory tariffs throught Europe. This is so well known such a phenomenon is unlikely to recur.
Two quick observations. A catchy quip about 25 years ago, probably, mostly forgotten, is “no country has ever taxed its way to prosperity.” A tariff is a tax with an international costume.
Harris was running an interesting ad with the message that Trump wanted a “national sales tax” on imports. Interesting packaging indeed.

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 7 2024 22:44 utc | 260

By now, that must mean full de-nazification, full and permanent disarmament, full and permanent neutrality, full and permanent acceptance of Russian gained territory, full rescinding of sanctions and full restitution of stolen funds – possibly even the incorporation of the Black Sea coast and Odessa. Can Trump swallow (or be allowed to swallow) that?
Not very likely.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 7 2024 22:17 utc | 252
When the eye is somewhere, it isn’t somewhere else.
Payment to settle things out can be in syria, north korea, even iran or venezuela.
Putin is not stupid and might accept big wins elsewhere for a shitty short time solution for ukraine.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 22:45 utc | 261

I didn’t read all the postings so I don’t know if this video has already been posted. If so, sorry.
A german TV host ask Mr. Michael Roth (SPD) if Ukraine is the biggest loser now Trump has won and how Germany can help. Mr. Roth is gladly ready that Germany pays the complete support for Ukraine.
I’m not from Germany. If I were a German, I would probably call him a traitor to Germany.
Video: https://t.me/myLordBebo/49835
(you don’t need Telegram to watch this video)

Posted by: NoName | Nov 7 2024 22:46 utc | 262

Simplicius says that Trump’s victory is the end of “Straussian cult” or ‘Leo Strauss sect”.
Does anybody have more material about this?
Posted by: vargas | Nov 7 2024 13:39 utc | 34
Thierry Meyssan has searched a lot on this subject, and you will find much relevant material on his site. “Straussian” are basically the neo-cons.

Posted by: kapimo | Nov 7 2024 22:49 utc | 263

In 2016 Trump did not control the U.S. Senate
Posted by: kupkee | Nov 7 2024 21:11 utc | 236

Resolving the Ukraine situation has practically nothing to do with Trump’s influence over the branches of US government. Instead it requires that the invested parties are either made whole or that they are forced into taking a loss.
There are hundreds of billions at stake where silent Western partners have bought Ukrainian debt with the expectation of a big payday with a NATO win. Of course that payday isn’t coming so what is Trump going to do to keep his squillionaire pals from revolting?
Have a look at the bags in MetInvests financials. They are but one example of the losses that must be realized.
https://metinvestholding.com/en/investor/keydata

Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 22:51 utc | 264

Ukraine must be disarmed and the Nazis killed or deported…
Posted by: Pyrrhus | Nov 7 2024 14:24
You idiots who prattle on about Nazis.
As everyone knows,… the wages of the Nazi soldiers were paid by the Jew Kolomoisky, till American Jew politicians began paying them with American taxpayer money (which is the current situation).
If the Jews stopped paying them, the Nazis would simply go away.

Posted by: MarkUp | Nov 7 2024 22:56 utc | 265

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 19:49 utc | 208
—————————————————————- |
Love Donbass; your point is well-taken. You are absolutely right for the following reasons:
If a State exists, it only exists for one reason: To serve the interests of the ruling class (regardless of the form of the state: democratic, oligarchical, monarchical, or dictatorial).
All the functions of state power, even when disguised by the trappings of “democracy,” are, in fact, instruments of the class that controls the State (also known as the content of the State). Without a ruling class, there would be no need for a State as we know it. The question is, and has forever been, what class (content) controls the state, and does that State serve a majority or a minority class content?
Of course, this applies to every sovereign State on planet Earth.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 7 2024 23:01 utc | 266

A german TV host ask Mr. Michael Roth (SPD) if Ukraine is the biggest loser now Trump has won and how Germany can help. Mr. Roth is gladly ready that Germany pays the complete support for Ukraine.
I’m not from Germany. If I were a German, I would probably call him a traitor to Germany.
Video: https://t.me/myLordBebo/49835
(you don’t need Telegram to watch this video)
Posted by: NoName | Nov 7 2024 22:46 utc | 262
So I have to make a correction. After rewatching it, Mr. Roth says “if we don’t want that (a dictated peace), then we have to…” … so he is not directly saying “we have to” … so that he is “gladly ready” as I wrote was just my assumption.

Posted by: NoName | Nov 7 2024 23:01 utc | 267

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 7 2024 15:08 utc | 83
Given what he put himself and friends and family through, for four years, to get to this position, I’d cautiously say yes. I think the biggest regret the Democrats and their institutional backers/sponsors made was to ‘fortify’ the 2020 election and allow addled Biden on as their puppet. They now face a far more experienced, aware and thus formidable opponent than they ever did eight years ago.
The last four years were replete with ‘realistic’ doom mongers, from all political wings, whose predictions all proved to be utterly wrong, when assessing Trump. These self-same people are some of the ones wailing the loudest at the outcome, one has to ask why, what are they so worried about. I said repeatedly that anyone who counted America out, or underestimated her unique dynamics was foolish, she’s a young country and like all adolescents capable of royally fucking things up, but also gifted with astonishing potential if wisely and compassionately led.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 7 2024 23:09 utc | 268

Anyone know how things are going on the front line? We need a dedicated Ukraine thread. Everything’s been sidelined by the US election.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Nov 7 2024 23:09 utc | 269

Well, maybe I can understand myself better, with things that were already written long before…
https://textosandroides.blogspot.com/2022/11/democrazzia.html
As if there were not enough nails to rivet the cauldron where post-humanity is cooking, all over the world there is a big gamble: immense numbers of people are betting with their very lives to strengthen a power that does not contemplate them. That will never contemplate them.
After the successful staging of the last pandemic (last until now), where the agonizing remnant of free will that still illuminated the human spirit was docilely handed over to corporations and news factories, power no longer needs makeup or to try to hide its appetites or its inconsistencies.
The differences between nationalism or Nazionalsocialism, left, right, ecologists, anarchists, libertarians, indigenous people, semi-saintly whites or dictators no longer matter: they all sit at the same table and of course, do what is necessary to participate in the script and capture their piece of the pie.
To cover up, our chronic apathy is almost always enough, given that the trivialization of ideals continues its path to total absurdity, and now, any social network appeases the majority with simple acts such as saving puppies virtually or similar nonsense.
All hypnotized, at the same time that they turn their privileges into an endless crying that saturates the screens (they are not, and will not be, the elite without morals and without law that they admire).
Of course, “politics” is still the same, glamorously football-like, it is nothing more than a war of colors, of bands of mercenaries of reality without real programs or ideas, without a base, without interest in the people or in the people who support them with their own shoulders.
So, in this game of masks of power, it is simply a matter of choosing: between disastrous or magical options, fanatic or mystical, “between Guatemala and Guatepeor”, without convictions or hopes, because there are none anymore, only fanaticism and preventive aggression, defamation, fallacies and distortion.
But the manipulation that turns people into idiots is only a reflection of the way in which the owners of the world manipulate their merry puppets in the great theater of geopolitics…
Left-wing governments and candidates that turn sharply to the right, now, the first day they can do so? The world is round!!
Transnational policies cutting across administrations and regions as if the Holy Roman Empire still existed? They are just business…
And the businesses that pay off are sacred, be it drugs, weapons, oil, minerals, people, grains or cattle, which are all in the same hands and bleed the same meek sheep, who lose sleep trying to figure out how they are going to pay back every cent they owe for living poorly, and breathing, and obeying.
Meanwhile, without underestimating the greed of eventual administrators, there is not a single human problem that finds a solution, a need that is satisfied without inviting us to be slaves.
What a relief! It is so hard to decide, to think, to be… That any format consoles us from the painful anxiety of being responsible for the acts and omissions of our own lives!!
Of course, thinking of the planet as our common home or other pressing realities would force us to make changes, to assume responsibilities from which ideological, social and geographical borders protect us: We do not want to destroy our way of life!!
Of course, genocide and war are the only expected results. The fact of being free of spirit, and living on the edge of loneliness and despair is conjured by submitting ourselves to systems of government that turn every territory into a theater.
And of course, every leader becomes a puppet that makes the public laugh or applaud, love, hate or idolize the most ruthless executioners: always sitting and waiting, always a spectator.
Of course, there are many steps and juicy prizes waiting for validating the looting, violence and social devastation, participating directly in the political-territorial submission or closing one’s eyes to the subjugation of entire communities…
Then it is only a matter of continuing, remaining attached to the most perverse and irrational part of the system, making the trust generated by always saying “yes sir” or “no sir” without asking anything give way, according to the case.
It does not matter who dies accumulating the power of the violent local bosses or the gentlemen in tight suits, owners of everything and of all decisions (although nobody knows for sure who they represent).
There goes humanity, promoting the last great leap into the abyss that they make us pay for in advance day after day…

Posted by: Santi | Nov 7 2024 23:12 utc | 270

Since Putin has waited until favourable referenda in Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk before moving to claim or assist (OK the last two took much longer for him to act), why couldn’t Trump negotiate with Putin to agree to hold new, independently reviewed, referendums in Donetsk and Luhansk, asking those citizens the simple question do they want to rejoin Ukraine or remain as separate republics, free to make alliances as they wish?

Posted by: NathanC | Nov 7 2024 23:12 utc | 271

Speaking of fascism and brown shirts…
https://textosandroides.blogspot.com/2022/12/especies-in-extinction.html
One of the characteristics of fascism, of this ever-renewed wave of neo-Nazis, is that it does not generate or accept agreements to stop the war.
Since their struggle is sacred, there is no reason to suspend it before total victory, and this implies the absolute annihilation of the enemy, total and eternal supremacy over the surface of the planet.
Clearly then, any agreement will be nothing more than a method of gaining time, and any defeat a way of concentrating positions to start over.
Of course, like everything, now that transport and communications have been diversified and almost universalized, the doctrine and combatants spread, atomized, to every corner of the world, within every government, corporation, profession, city, that is, any form of organization or human exchange.
One of the keys to its renewal and persistence is that it does not need reality or history. Its reign will be a new paradise that will permanently create itself like the sun creates rays of light. How attractive! But for the rest, there are the machine guns, which in addition to imposing their own ideas, eliminate those of others.
At a glance, given the minority of their presence in the social or institutional fabric, this dispersion seems insignificant, but in practice, there are millions of sources donating power and financing.
We do not know, but they are always ready to start or deepen the war, wherever their activities are directed at a common enemy whose destruction, conquest or submission may be profitable -also- for world banking and ultra-capitalism, two other completely outdated schemes of interpretation, whose only form of permanence is systematic and extreme violence.
Of course, it is expected that they will never stop financing totalitarianism.
As long as hostilities remain dormant, it is just as useful to generate unpayable debts as to spread hatred, prejudice, illness or hunger, to pollute or plunder, to exterminate animals or nature: any activity that generates non-constructive actions and responses, confrontational thoughts and speeches, that “legitimises” violence is like bread, and it is like the deep water where sharks swim, whether they are bankers or ministers, vandals or mercenaries.
Later – and there is always a “later” – when the cannons speak, individual combative capacity, performance on the battlefield, the decision to live and die with weapons in hand will be fundamental.
And so, real beings of flesh and blood, landscapes and cities, are relentlessly burned in the real world, only to keep the ghostly reflection of the ideologies that oppress them running.
If we take into account that all these imbalances, this violent evolution, is both the fuel and the justification of all the sociopolitical schemes in supposed conflict, the good and bad news at the same time is that the only power capable of generating minimally viable, real and humanizing alternatives comes from ourselves.
It is the power that we can still bring into play individually, the power to be and to do from the point of view of a person, of a living being conscious of its belonging to a heterogeneous community called planet Earth.

Posted by: Santi | Nov 7 2024 23:14 utc | 272

Anyone know how things are going on the front line?
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Nov 7 2024 23:09 utc | 269

https://divgen.ru/ is a quite decent and up to date mapping service. The user interface is self explanatory.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 23:15 utc | 273

My guess is that Ukraine’s going to be abandoned for practical reasons, not trump the peacemaker. US stocks of equipment and munitions are not limitless. Trump will pick helping Israel over Ukraine.
It is not 2016. I don’t think Trump is prepared for the world he faces as POTUS. He imagines himself the most powerful man in the world again, he’s not going to like finding out that he isn’t. His reaction to that is unpredictable. Who gets which job is going to be more important than usual.

Posted by: Lex | Nov 7 2024 23:17 utc | 274

Simplicius says that Trump’s victory is the end of “Straussian cult” or ‘Leo Strauss sect”.
Does anybody have more material about this?
Posted by: vargas | Nov 7 2024 13:39 utc | 34
—————————————————————-
A quick read that will tell you everything you need to know.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/article_1542jsp/

Posted by: Ed | Nov 7 2024 23:25 utc | 275

I said repeatedly that anyone who counted America out, or underestimated her unique dynamics was foolish, she’s a young country and like all adolescents capable of royally fucking things up, but also gifted with astonishing potential if wisely and compassionately led.
Posted by: Milites | Nov 7 2024 23:09 utc | 268
Wasn’t it a thread, or two, ago that I mentioned that us was too young to be over, but that this stage was closer to the galic-roman wars near 350 BC?
Yes, in my humble (or not) opinion, the us are only on the first stage barrier and are good for a few centuries more (quite a few if you want an honest opinion)
And yes, they might even surprise us later (though I personally think that their more imperial stance will be far from some more optimistic and inspiring tales of adolescence).
Will they be a truly new thing or just a surviving extension of the lost western empires? I don’t know. The previous cycles seem to point to the later.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 23:40 utc | 276

Great piece b.
Generating plenty of great geopolitical opinions here, thanks all.
Getting the critical conversations going over the mass media narrative control is the greatest task now, as some have noted.
How else are we going to stop acting like we live and think as we did a hundred years ago! Like some modern day Flat Earther who insists it’s the sun that turns around our most important selves?
I don’t know how the wars will end but they definitely will and the World will totally change.
Nations will dissolve and new ones may start. That is how it has always been.
Change will happen as it always does. There is nothing to fear in that.
Even if involves mass upheaval for tens of millions. That has been happening anyway non stop this century as in every previous . It is happening now all over, even of it isn’t widely ‘reported’.
My friend tried tells me how they have been worried to nausea by Trumps ‘improbable’ win! It is a shock that the Narratives told to them incessantly that it is a moral choice to not want him to win!
Moral ????
People who don’t act morally in most aspects of their daily life with friends or strangers suddenly feel they are so saintly that they can be a moral judge of tens of millions of voters choice. Lol.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 7 2024 23:42 utc | 277

Hey b,
Pop up a thread about the implications of Trump for the ‘sub-empire’ (Aus, NZ, etc). Clinton Fernandes’ new book is a must read (see review in latest NLR). My hope is that Australia might win a little more sovereignty (if we have the maturity to seize it). Tariffs will hurt us, but we may wriggle out of AUKUS (not holding my breath though).

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 8 2024 0:05 utc | 278

Hey b,
Pop up a thread about the implications of Trump for the ‘sub-empire’ (Aus, NZ, etc). Clinton Fernandes’ new book is a must read (see review in latest NLR). My hope is that Australia might win a little more sovereignty (if we have the maturity to seize it). Tariffs will hurt us, but we may wriggle out of AUKUS (not holding my breath though).

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 8 2024 0:05 utc | 279

YAY! Have y’all heard? The Ukraine war is over. Donald said it would be. I’m so pleased. Next, World Peace by Christmas.

Posted by: ScoobyDoo | Nov 8 2024 0:05 utc | 280

People who don’t act morally in most aspects of their daily life with friends or strangers suddenly feel they are so saintly that they can be a moral judge of tens of millions of voters choice. Lol.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 7 2024 23:42 utc | 277
E pur si muove!
We should never fall on their mistake of thinking others can’t have an opinion we find untenable.
What does it say? Let me digress a bit… the so called “liberal” position is on the contrary a conservative position (as we are in an end cycle phase and many can’t allow the idea that things change)
End cycle, a simple intermediate (almost) half century cycle, not yet an hegemonic cycle (that comes next, and would be three half century cycles), but it is getting closer and it is more than an hegemonic cycle, it will be a civilization shift cycle, those that take almost a millennia to occur, and even a full cycle (or more) for the western world (or for civilization itself), hurrah (or maybe not) for those here young enough to see the two last decades of this century.
One of the points of this digression is that it’s TOO EARLY. we’re still half a century from a major upheaval. So most of current worries?
nec sic incipies, ut scriptor cyclicus olim:
“fortunam Priami cantabo et nobile bellum.”
quid dignum tanto feret hic promissor hiatu?
parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
Luckily for us only mice, not men and certainly not mountains, will come out of the current Sturm und Drang.
Nightie night

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:07 utc | 281

My friend tried tells me how they have been worried to nausea by Trumps ‘improbable’ win!
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 7 2024 23:42 utc | 277
I warned the right wingers long, long ago, pendulum will swing, it was height of Bush’s second term, and they wrote online whatever they felt like without repercussion.
Pendulum swung, when internet was more entropic. Now internet is solid, and AI flips through billions of messages a second looking for wrong think.
Over the past 10 years, people have been incredibly smug and dishonest, ratcheting up hyperbole to level 11 (get it?)
They can talk all they want about “morals”, but deep down, that nausea is the fear of the coming retribution.
The left suffered through it from sep 11 2001 to about 2010. And I thought it was terrible.
The right suffered through it from about 2014 until now, and still has about two or three years left as all corporate message power fights back. And it has shocked me how evil it has been.
I figured jingoistic “wartime” racism and censorship was the price of living in a nation when showing sympathy to the bombed middle eastern countries labeled you a terrorist, and you kept your thoughts to yourself when working around a bunch of clucking right wing hens always saying their prayers for the troops. This was not beyond my realm of believable reality.
But when the censorship in 2016, and the pure mass one sided of media began, seriously suppressing *political* speech, I was shocked, and angry.
Then came covid, blm, and election denialism, prisoners in jail for being around the capitol jan 6. I dropped put of society. Period. If I have to accept the mark to pay for a surgery, I am not going to plan for that surgery. Money, which I held onto as the arbiter of sensible exchange, was worthless.
During these next four years, there may be some surprising calm, that’s just because the pendulum is mid swing. In eight years, life will be hell for the leftists, worse than they did to the right during covid, which was abominable.
And me, dumbass that I am, will probably be on the left again, because Israel will still be in charge of the delineations of “left” and “right”, and every leftist will also mean anti-Israel which means terrorist, prison, death.
That was quite a weave:
TLDR: Your friend couches in morality the true fear of the left: retribution for how they have behaved.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 8 2024 0:16 utc | 282

Posted by: Milites | Nov 7 2024 23:09 utc | 268
—————————————————————- |
Milites, the reason for Trump’s victory is no secret, and neither is it necessarily a victory for America or Planet Earth. I opposed another term for Biden, later Harris, on principle. That doesn’t mean that Trump’s win is a win for the working and toiling masses, even if some may mistakenly think so. In 1933, many of the German working class thought that Adolf Hitler was going to bring peace and order to Germany, not to mention prosperity (which, for a while, he did).
Fate did not give America a good choice in this election; it has not given the world a good choice for a new Hegemon for many years. Indeed, the U.S. working class has been getting its balls busted since before the Ronald Reagan administration, and war has always been the ruling class’s answer to economic and social problems since the 1890s.
The problem is that the working class has ricocheted between the elephants and the jackasses for so long it has become second nature. So, why should anyone be surprised that many former Democrats have fled the coop again? The blame lies with Democrats who abandoned the working class for corporate campaign contributions back to Bill Clinton’s days: New Democrats who looked suspiciously like Republicans.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 8 2024 0:18 utc | 283

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:07 utc | 281
magic as you wrote it, I wrote of my cycle theory.
Yours is 50-ish, year, mine is twelvish, but the theory is similar.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 8 2024 0:19 utc | 284

Posted by: Santi | Nov 7 2024 23:14 utc | 272
—————————————————————- |
So, the answer is simple: Russia must take out all Nazis in Ukraine. That may not have been your point, but your comment perfectly clarifies it.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 8 2024 0:27 utc | 285

Simplicius says that Trump’s victory is the end of “Straussian cult” or ‘Leo Strauss sect”.
Does anybody have more material about this?
Posted by: vargas | Nov 7 2024 13:39 utc | 34
Try this link >>> “What is the Straussian Cult?” It’s called a fucking Google Search you lazy fucking moron. Or just search “Leo Strauss”. Or ask your precious Oracle Dima.
Wtf is the matter with you vargas, that you can’t think or act for yourself? Is it that you can’t be fucked searching and reading more than 100 words in one sitting and require some grown up here to spoonfeed you one paragraph explanations to complex topics? I think so, because you constantly exhibit an inability to grasp more than a nutshell understanding of FUCKING ANYTHING. You opened a page window to Simplicius. Then opened a page window to MoA. Why didn’t you simply go via the google search window to satisfy your curiosity about something you didn’t understand BEFORE posting here? You are seriously brain damaged.

Posted by: Not-a-troll | Nov 8 2024 0:30 utc | 286

Anyone know how things are going on the front line? We need a dedicated Ukraine thread. Everything’s been sidelined by the US election.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Nov 7 2024 23:09 utc | 269
————————————————————————–
Not so good for Zelensky and his merry band of Nazis. Over and out!

Posted by: Ed | Nov 8 2024 0:31 utc | 287

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:07 utc | 281
magic as you wrote it, I wrote of my cycle theory.
Yours is 50-ish, year, mine is twelvish, but the theory is similar.
Posted by: UWDude | Nov 8 2024 0:19 utc | 284
Not twelvish, 11.5 and harmonics. 46, 138, 828, 1656
(though I’m not sure if it’s 138 or as little as 135, the others play as fractions or multiples)
BTW, with the short cycle try 3 for up and 1 for down for a 46ish partial and 3 of those for an hegemonic cycle
Magic? Maybe

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:32 utc | 288

Posted by: vargas | Nov 7 2024 13:39 utc | 34
Wtf is the matter with you vargas, that you can’t think or act for yourself?
Posted by: Not-a-troll | Nov 8 2024 0:30 utc | 286
Come on! Vargas is our very own personal forest gump, give him candy and bugger off.
Run Vargas. Run!

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:34 utc | 289

why couldn’t Trump negotiate with Putin to agree to hold new, independently reviewed, referendums in Donetsk and Luhansk, asking those citizens the simple question do they want to rejoin Ukraine or remain as separate republics, free to make alliances as they wish?
Posted by: NathanC | Nov 7 2024 23:12 utc | 271
______
Why would Russia in effect question the legitimacy of elections it already held?

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 8 2024 0:37 utc | 290

There is no doubt in my mind that, for a peace that can last, the need is for a new constitution for Ukraine. For that to happen, military control of the entire country is also required. If this seems to be too much to ask for, consider the costs and dangers to all of Europe of a rump fascist oriented state remaining at its heart. For true lasting peace, Russia does not need to own Ukraine, but it needs to set in place a peaceful sovereign government at the end of the war.

Posted by: UnionHorse | Nov 8 2024 0:48 utc | 291

Trump will tell Ukraine to make a deal sooner than later. He’s not going to get involved in what he sees as Bidens folly. He’ll tell Putin to make a deal because domestic politcs may force his hand in the future. Ukraine will lose territory and Zelensky will be pushed out.

Posted by: Bismarck 28 | Nov 8 2024 0:49 utc | 292

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:07 utc | 281
Nice to see Horace quoted here…

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 8 2024 0:50 utc | 293

Nice to see Horace quoted here…
Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 8 2024 0:50 utc | 293
I thought best to stop at Horace. Never go full Athenaeus…
But don’t worry, my latin is hardly enough to figure out a phrase or two
Exemplar, crustulum et apparatus translationum

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:58 utc | 294

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 8 2024 0:16 utc | 282
You’ve got the same perception problem Simplicious does: failure to define the “left” which always translates into giving the Dems exactly what they desire: left cred for a reactionary politic.
Have you read Caitlyn Johnstone? She’s good on this issue. You and me both know the Dems and the idpol crowd are not left by any stretch. But I will say some of the racial idpols are genuinely left, but not intelligent enough to read the Dems psyops.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 8 2024 0:59 utc | 295

Posted by: vargas | Nov 7 2024 13:39 utc | 34
Wtf is the matter with you vargas, that you can’t think or act for yourself?
Posted by: Not-a-troll | Nov 8 2024 0:30 utc | 286
If you ask me, both these motherfuckers are trolls. They tag team like that when they aren’t able to draw the thread off track. Creates the illusion they aren’t being ignored.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 8 2024 1:01 utc | 296

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 8 2024 0:32 utc | 288
please dont derail, eg quick answer, but what kind of cycle or number are you referring to?
Numbers are the core of many magics.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 8 2024 1:02 utc | 297

A quick read that will tell you everything you need to know.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/article_1542jsp/
Posted by: Ed | Nov 7 2024 23:25 utc | 275
Many thanks Ed for this succinct/informative piece/interview with Shadia Drury on Leo Strauss …
Do you have anything similar on his influence on recent Zionist ‘will to perpetual power and influence?

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 8 2024 1:04 utc | 298

My friend tried tells me how they have been worried to nausea by Trumps ‘improbable’ win! It is a shock that the Narratives told to them incessantly that it is a moral choice to not want him to win!
Moral ????
People who don’t act morally in most aspects of their daily life with friends or strangers suddenly feel they are so saintly that they can be a moral judge of tens of millions of voters choice. Lol.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 7 2024 23:42 utc | 277
I know it’s your friend, but I feel like they should suffer a little more than nausea. I will never forget sitting out the lockdowns watching every major city burn over one man’s death (nothing close for Gaza) and then being told I’d be fired for not taking an experimental vaccine. Then a war for Ukronazis and a mother fucking genocide. Even the lowly supporters of that blood soaked Dem regime deserve some sufferation.
The leadership deserve death by hanging after a proper trial for war crimes.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 8 2024 1:07 utc | 299

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 8 2024 0:59 utc | 295
left and right, lke religion, is confessional, as it is a state of mind identifiable only by what the mind claims to think, which itself is incredibly complicated by the script of ego.
I use the term, and I dont think many were confused when I wrote it. I understand the desire to try and redefine what left means today, just like RINO is a deflective term to build the no true scotsman fallacy.

Posted by: UWDude | Nov 8 2024 1:10 utc | 300