Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 7, 2024
Trump And Ukraine

How will a president-elect Donald Trump handle the war in Ukraine?

I doubt that he will be able to close down the war in 24 hours, as he had promised. I rather think that he will escalate it. As I stated two weeks ago:

I expect the new president to double down on the anti-Russian project in Ukraine …

A new Wall Street Journal piece on Trump's promise does not give me any reason to believe otherwise.

Trump Promised to End the War in Ukraine. Now He Must Decide How. (archived
Foreign-policy advisers close to the president-elect put forth different versions of a plan to effectively freeze the front line

Like in Trump’s first term, different factions are set to compete to influence the Republican’s foreign policy. More traditionally minded allies such as Mike Pompeo, the former secretary of state now in contention to lead the Pentagon, are likely to push for a settlement that doesn’t appear to give a major win to Moscow. Other advisers, particularly Richard Grenell, a top candidate to lead the State Department or serve as national-security adviser, could give priority to Trump’s desire to end the war as soon as possible, even if it means forcing Kyiv into significant concessions.

But what are ways to do that?

One idea proposed inside Trump’s transition office, detailed by three people close to the president-elect and not previously reported, would involve Kyiv promising not to join NATO for at least 20 years. In exchange, the U.S. would continue to pump Ukraine full of weapons to deter a future Russian attack.

Under that plan, the front line would essentially lock in place and both sides would agree to an 800-mile demilitarized zone. Who would police that territory remains unclear, but one adviser said the peacekeeping force wouldn’t involve American troops, nor come from a U.S.-funded international body, such as the United Nations.

“We can do training and other support but the barrel of the gun is going to be European,” a member of Trump’s team said. “We are not sending American men and women to uphold peace in Ukraine. And we are not paying for it. Get the Poles, Germans, British and French to do it.

The idea is laughable for several reasons. It does not take Russia's position into account. To continue to arm Ukraine while keeping a ceasefire is an obvious delaying tactic – nothing that will solve the conflict. Russia will only agree to something that concludes the war for good. The assumption that Russia would condone European NATO forces on the ground in Ukraine is also delusional.

Other ideas are just a variant of the above:

Earlier this year, Keith Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served in Trump’s first White House, presented Trump with a blueprint that includes withholding weapons from Ukraine until Kyiv agrees to peace talks with Russia. Ukraine could still try to regain lost territory, but would have to do so through diplomatic negotiations.

The only real way to stop the war is for the U.S. to drop all support for Ukraine. The Europeans would bicker about that but, if only for budget reasons, would likely follow through. It would then be up to Ukraine, having lost all support, to make nice with Moscow.

Trump will likely select (neo-conservative) hawks to run his defense and foreign policies. They will take all possible measures, even against Trump's declared will, to keep the war going. For them it is down to the last Ukrainian, then down to the last European – if only to show that the U.S. will never give up.

To cover for this Trump and his acolytes may well offer an immediate ceasefire. But that will not work.

As Dimitry Trenin, the former director of Carnegie Moscow Center, writes in Kommersant (machine translation):

If we are talking about the cessation of hostilities along the existing line of contact, then this approach is unlikely to be taken seriously in Moscow. Such a "stop to the war" will be nothing more than a pause, after which the conflict will flare up with renewed vigor and, probably, with greater intensity. The nature of the future Ukrainian regime, the military and military-economic potential, as well as the military-political status of Ukraine are of paramount importance for Russia. In addition, it is necessary to take into account the new territorial realities.

All those items would require serious concessions by the U.S. which the future Trump administration will be unwilling to give:

It is hard to expect the Trump administration to agree to a substantive dialogue on these issues, much less to take into account Russia's core interests. If he shows readiness, the dialogue will start, but even in this case, an agreement is far from guaranteed.

There is also the major issue of trust:

A separate topic is what can be considered satisfactory guarantees in conditions when both parties do not trust each other at all. Two "Minsk" agreements (2014 and 2015 agreements) were violated, the third attempt — the "Istanbul" initialed in 2022 — was thwarted, so the fourth one is unlikely to happen. The only guarantee that Russia can rely on is a guarantee for itself.

The only guarantee to Russia is a permanent (conventional) superiority over Ukrainian forces. Any new arms for Ukraine would undermine that. But acknowledging Russia's superiority is exactly the loss the U.S. does not want to concede.

The author of Events in Ukraine comes to a similar conclusion:

Personally, this is what I predict happening if Trump gets into office (if the ‘if’ is even necessary at this point). Trump proposes Putin a ‘compromise deal’ in Ukraine. Putin refuses, given that he’s winning on the battlefield – see my military newsletters. Trump is enraged by this loss of face, and encouraged by his Ukraine hawk advisors like Pompeo (who called for a "$500 billion lend-lease for Ukraine” this July), what does he do next? De-escalate? Hard to believe.

Indeed – hard to believe.

The war will go on. Russia will have to, as Gordon Hahn predicts, cross the Dnieper, retake Odessa and threaten Kiev. Zelenski is unlikely to politically survive such a situation. Other forces would come to the fore:

The pivot of decision-making will then shift to Kiev and the question of whether Zelenskiy or any Ukrainian leader is able to start peace talks at all, no less ones that presuppose loss of territory as part of any settlement with Moscow, without prompting a domestic political crisis. The resulting coup poker game could involve a Kiev-based coup led by intelligence and security forces, the HRU and/or SBU, or emerge from the periphery at the front with ultranationalists and neofascists such as the Ukrainian Volunteer Corps (DUK), Azov, and others, well-armed as part of Ukraine‘s armed forces, turning their guns around and marching on Kiev in order to seize power.

A U.S.-backed coup might pre-empt, precede or facilitate such a turn of events. Washington and Brussels might gamble that easing or allowing the radicals‘ rise to power is he only way to rally what remains of the Ukrainian nation so the effort to hand Moscow a 'strategic defeat‘ can be realized and further NATO expansion can be secured.

But a fascist coup, supported by the U.S. or not, will not be able to change the situation on the ground. Russia would still have the upper hand and win the war.

Only a direct intervention by NATO, could be able to change that trajectory. That however would likely expand the war into a global contest that not even Trump's hawks will want to pursue.

Comments

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 7 2024 15:49 utc | 99
Yes, some parties may feel motivated to get things done before he takes office.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 7 2024 15:54 utc | 101

Seems to me that IF Trump and his team see this as an irrevocable FUBAR, then they will do their utmost to collapse the situation as early as possible.
Well, we will know soon enough.
Posted by: marcjf | Nov 7 2024 15:32 utc | 96
Added bonus, at least party (and team trump) wise, that if early enough, Vance can fully decouple from any early problems if he starts early enough prepping for 2028.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 15:54 utc | 102

Trump is already surrounding himself with known hawks like Pimpeo (China/Russia) and Hook (Iran).
Any of Trump’s “antiwar” fanbois and girls in North America or Europe are in for an unpleasant surprise.
Getcha popcorn ready.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 7 2024 15:55 utc | 103

You only have to say his name for five keyboard warriors to arrive denouncing him.
Posted by: south | Nov 7 2024 14:46 utc | 69
Or the converse. You only have to criticize him legitimately one time before 5 Trump fanboi keyboard warriors arrive to “defend” him.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 7 2024 15:57 utc | 104

thanks b…. i agree with you..
colin powell ‘you break it, you own it’.. usa created the ukraine-nato mess, even if the media convinces the public differently..
where was ‘usa foreign policy’ on the list of concerns for the american public?? at the bottom or was it even on the list?… why is that?? the media has successfully blamed all the problems in the ”outside”( less exceptional) world, whether it be ukraine or israel – on others… there is never a moment of self reflection or contemplation in the usa on its own role in creating all the mayhem… it is always some other far off country or leader that is responsible and has to be dealt with… the creation of endless hitlers continues.. it’s necessary for business..
ignorance is supposed to be bliss.. it certainly is for those who continue to exploit the american people with all the far off adventures that gets justified…
again – the usa desperately needs a wake up call – just like israel… maybe they will happen similtaneously?? i can dream, lol..

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 15:59 utc | 105

It’s easy to get drawn into americans trickery.
Web of lies.
Say no.
Ukraine and Russia are nothing what so ever to do with america. Full stop.
Pack up and go home. End of story.
At this stage someone will say….
Oh but what about americas’s interests !
America even gets what their best interests are wrong.
Idiots and fools.
Go home

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 7 2024 16:00 utc | 106

Trump is already surrounding himself with known hawks like Pimpeo (China/Russia) and Hook (Iran).
Any of Trump’s “antiwar” fanbois and girls in North America or Europe are in for an unpleasant surprise.
Getcha popcorn ready.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 7 2024 15:55 utc | 103
Try my answer @52 for one.
As for another point, you might see some strange names but can i remind you of an old quote? “better have them inside pissing on thee outside, than outside, pissing inside”

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 16:01 utc | 107

First priority, with Repubs totally in control, is to spend more money on “defense” and then comes where and how.
from the web. . .
“Trump oversaw a massive hike in defense spending during his first term — some $225 billion higher than projected from the late Obama years. Defense hawks in Congress are counting on a repeat of that trend, and will have more power to force it.
Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., published a memo earlier this year calling for a $55 billion surge in defense spending. The paper helped increase the Senate Armed Services Committee budget bill, though by less than half that number. With Republicans taking control of the Senate, Wicker will now chair that committee and can push for further increases.” . .Noah Robinson

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 7 2024 16:02 utc | 108

Given the US administration has been a black hole, a power vacuum.
Trump can start governing right now. As there has long been no one at all to talk to, foreign leaders will talk to Trump. Putin will talk to Trump. Since de jure Trump has no standing until January, Putin will limit matters to ‘getting to know you’. And more specifically the Trump team needs to get to know the Russian team.
This means Trump must put a team in place and get it running. If he can do that quickly and effectively things may change. If he fails to do that it will be the same ragged circus it was in his first term.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 7 2024 16:02 utc | 109

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 7 2024 15:57 utc | 104
let see someone defend the indefensible position the usa has put the world in… they can’t do it successfully.. the usa is rogue nation number 1… until the american people give up on saviors and start realizing they have been fully taken, or had – nothing is going to change.. trump is just another 2 bit actor to replaced by yet another, while the shit continues on..

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 16:03 utc | 110

What this really means is that Russian influence will extend further into Africa, with resulting immigration and other instability along Europe’s southern flank.

Posted by: Duncan Kinder | Nov 7 2024 16:03 utc | 111

It is a long time until Trump assumes formal and DeFacto power. November 7 to January 20 is 74 days (!). Currently, we are in an incredibly uncertain era, maybe THE most uncertain one since August -39 or earlier.
The US and German political leadership is both in a a state of Limbo, with big changes in both. EU is Split and without any leadership except technocrat fascists.
Trump will attempt to line up as many piece as he can in this time, while DeepState will monitor everything and look for sigificant pretexts to strike down any “collusion” before there is any formal power.
I am in agreement with some others here in that Trumps best play is to wash his hands often and with strong soap. This entire debacle belongs to the DeepState and is disliked by the majority of the people of USA.
He has talked a long time about ending it early and well. At the same time, his hand is very poor compared to Kremlin. Unless he is fully willing (and capable) of putting it all on DS and throwing both Zelesky and EU far under the bus, he will not be successfull.
But 74 days is a long time. Russia could have reached Dniepr before that…

Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Nov 7 2024 16:05 utc | 112

@ oldhippie | Nov 7 2024 16:02 utc | 109
i like and appreciate your optimism..

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 16:05 utc | 113

Posted by: Hot Carl | Nov 7 2024 14:21 utc | 58
The new world [BRICS] must .. use a commodity based “money” that by its very nature can not ever change. A ‘basket’ of commodities, weighted by natural availability and/or desirablity,
..it must be “exactly like the old fashioned commodity of gold/silver standard or add to them food and/or energy should be adopted”.
<= I submit that the basket of currencies could just track the value of the $USD.. In this way, all currencies worldwide [become direct derivatives of the value of the $USD]. Each currency would have the same relative value...? Currencies tracking the value of the $USD would be more or less immune to sanction, would be nearly immune to economic discrimination, and would permit derivative currency transactions to flourish in the absence of regulatory controls or high cost transaction gates operating out side of the state that issues the derivative currencies.. Values of Belize dollars track the purchasing value of the $USD. Each $2 Belize = in buying power $1 USD. In Belize people are indifferent to which currency they trade in.. if all currencies worldwide were similarly priced (value is determined as a consequence of the value of the $USD), the world would be indifferent to which basket currency it traded in. As near as I can tell the recent BRICS summit in Kazan abandoned the idea of a single currency.. Love to hear you objection to this observation.?

Posted by: snake | Nov 7 2024 16:05 utc | 114

Winter storm earliest blizzard conditions – no power but I have wood. Lovely neighbor helping. Hope the political negatives don’t happen but just the people are fired up, won’t accept more of the same. Love to all.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 7 2024 16:07 utc | 115

Mike Benz, attorney, former Trump admin on cyber, Is the best insider on election rigging in 2020, Trumps need to appease elements to stay alive limiting his options.
https://youtu.be/pl5hXc_6xtE?si=Sj_w7nhsR5TfaLNH

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 16:10 utc | 116

“Now that Trump cannot be reelected, the LAST constituency he needs to worry about is his voting base. He can ignore it without consequence, and it’s likely he will. Instead, he’ll be back to relying on the Rethug Party machinery (against which RFK Jr and Tulsi Gabbard are, well, blades of grass) and executing its orders, all the while pretending that their ideas were his all along. Ladybugs Lindsey is an exemplary cog in that machinery. It’ll be Trump’s first term all over again.
Posted by: malenkov | ”
I understand the confusion some may feel having been conditioned to certain conventional beliefs.
That you find RFK JR (in the aftermath of genuine assassination attempts you might be papering over) insignificant is funny.
This aint about voting, this aint about lame ducks. You simply failed to grasp what I said. This could be intentional, could be a blind spot. Discourse means nothing compared to what may or may not happen in the next three months. This is one of ultimate moments in American history, particularly in regards to the two party racket, consolidated media and secured information. If censorship retains the power it seized in the last twenty years and if Trump fails to honor big promises, there will be nothing to protect him from a stepped up sequel to 2016-2020. The most powerful interests of the last 50 years and ambitious monsters are trying to work out the solutions at this very moment. Only his supporters offer these bastards anything to think twice about.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Nov 7 2024 16:13 utc | 117

Dunkan Kinder @ 111
Thats a plus not a minus.
I hope their armed.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 7 2024 16:14 utc | 118

Perhaps the key weakness of MOA and other alt.media sites are their mutual western focus, that future events are the sole purview of the existing world order.
So, as we can see in this thread, any discussion of what Trump may or may not do is presumed to be subject only to deep state control, the appointment of his executive team, etc.
On one hand, it’s a bit disappointed seeing the narrow focus, on the other, it’s exciting to realize that so few are either paying attention or understand the real impact of the emerging new order.
Once more, if Trump was allowed to win merely to continue existing policies, Biden/Harris would have been the obvious choice. The problem with that strategy is that it invites loss of control over the looming collapse of the western financial system.
If you were part of the existing banking system and understood that the defeat in Ukraine meant the eventual, inevitable displacement of the dollar, any reasonably astute person would be preparing to (figuratively) parachute to a safe haven.
Trump was brought in to be the figurehead of the restructuring process; he has a popular reform mandate. Few seem to understand what that truly entails, but they’ll find out soon enough.
It’s like the classic line about do you want it the easy or hard way? The top eschelon know the western era is over – any resistance by the west will only result in harsher terms and conditions. Best to get out at the top and jump on the Brics escalator to continue another 1,000 year run.

Posted by: markw | Nov 7 2024 16:16 utc | 119

Posted by b on November 7, 2024 at 11:37 UTC | Permalink
“Trump will likely select (neo-conservative) hawks to run his defense and foreign policies. They will take all possible measures, even against Trump’s declared will, to keep the war going.”
Thanks,b. I disagree as I think you have too much speculation about step one (Trump’s cabinet picks) that lead you to extreme conclusions in step 8 or 9 (US backed coup in Kiev). Take a big step back and reevaluate your starting point. It was Trump’s betrayal by the Deep State actors and Neocons in his first administration that led Trump to forgo the federal funding to assemble his transition team and pay for his transition team out of his own pocket. That has enabled him to select his team outside of the view and free from the influence of the Deep State. To me, that suggests that Trump has learned a painful lesson from his first term about who he can trust. I can see him picking Richard Grenell again, but I would be surprised if he gave Pompeo a place on the team. At this point it all sounds like wild speculation as Trump has always kept his cards close to his vest.

Posted by: Paranaense | Nov 7 2024 16:17 utc | 120

I understand the confusion some may feel having been conditioned to certain conventional beliefs DATING BACK TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD.
fixed it for me.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Nov 7 2024 16:17 utc | 121

But 74 days is a long time. Russia could have reached Dniepr before that…
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Nov 7 2024 16:05 utc | 112
That’s what I was asking, implicitly, to milites on the other thread.
Just a cut-off/judicious reduction of western/us remote sensing intelligence and a thinning/delaying of drones and shells and RF could make all the advances it wished.
Throwing ukraine under the bus can be done in a very discreet way any time the us so wishes…
Now… it is not a risk free play that can be used to press Z into negotiations, once in motion the AFU can collapse any minute, so it is a real kiss of death.
Now, would team biden do it to leave a perfect mess for trump? Wouldn’t put it beyond them.
Would team trump do it? To disengage too quickly to be stopped? Would they risk european countries going alone and having their asses handed by RF?
This made me think of 5 eyes, could/would trump cut-off UK from the military intelligence part ? Or at least insert a delay on intel-sharing?
It’s interesting times we’re living in.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 16:18 utc | 122

The frontline may, by Jan 20th, develop not necessarily in Ukraine’s favor.
It is useless to speculate what Trump will do. He is spectacularly unfocused, and apparently does whatever the last person he talked to suggested.

Posted by: catdog | Nov 7 2024 16:19 utc | 123

Further to:
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 7 2024 12:35 utc | 12
According to Bob Woodward, on abc.net.au/7.30 this evening, Trump has spoken with Putin numerous times since he left office.
Imo, there’s something a bit creepy about Woodward. But if the above claim is true then Trump is well placed to be on the same wave-length as Putin.
I’ll never forget that when POTUS Trump and Putin first met face to face, they sent all the aides, translators and witnesses out of the room and had a long private chat.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 7 2024 16:20 utc | 124

This isn’t about Trump being dumb, being a conman, Addelson’s money, being a covert Zionist, this is simply about staying alive. It’s not that complicated.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 16:20 utc | 125

@ markw | Nov 7 2024 16:16 utc | 119
i don’t think the usa is going to jump on the brics elevator any time soon… what are you smoking??

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 16:25 utc | 126

“You only have to criticize [Trump] legitimately one time before 5 Trump fanboi keyboard warriors arrive to “defend” him” – Tom_Q_Collins 104
Funny, I have been both critical of Trump and supportive depending on the policy or cabinet pick, I have never observed the phenom to which you speak…just opposite. Aside, Trump pulled heavily from AA’s and Hispanics +40%, more so than any other Republican since Teddy…go into one of those ethnic neighborhoods and call a brother a “Trump-fanboi” and see how that works out for you. I think you’d be lucky if you came back to tell us about it. Too funny.
I have been highly critical of 45’s cabinet picks and have repeatedly written/called the Trump White-House/campaign on the matter. So far, the answer I’ve gotten is that the Pompeo rumor is just that…such a move would likely spark resignations and desertions. I think it will remain a “left-wing” rumor/fantasy as it’s only the discredited “left-wing” rags that are reporting this as fact.
Besides I think Mike Pompeo is making a killing running a Langley money laundering service.

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 7 2024 16:25 utc | 127

IMO, it was brilliant for Russia to hold a conference with the theme of science fiction to predict the future I reported on prior to the election as there’s lots of that sort of writing on this thread. The only thing barflies are agreeing on is that speculation is rife.
IMO, the things that matter are the facts on the ground in Ukraine by the time Trump takes his oath in about 75 days. Another factor is chaos within EU/NATO is growing daily. And perhaps most importantly, NATO’s arms larder is close to empty making Pompeo’s lend/lease ploy utterly implausible. Plus, Zelensky will very likely order the draft age to be lowered to 18 since that’s the only way he can repopulate his military.
As far as Russia goes, the last several statements coming from Lavrov and Putin are the SMO’s goals will “definitely be accomplished” and negotiations will only proceed if they are realistic and address the conflict’s root cause–NATO expansion. And of course, most have mentioned Zelensky’s illegitimacy, plus there’s his edict to deal with. Trump can’t vacate that himself. For those needing additional input, revisit Russia’s 2021 security proposal and add Putin’s Eurasian Security Pact conception to it. The terms that existed in 2021 have changed, just as those of subsequent years have changed.
One thing does seem to be agreed upon: Any settlement must be based on the UN Charter in its totality. IMO, those who remain within the broken state now called Ukraine will be polled as to which nation they want to join in what Russia will term Ukraine’s decommunization. Well, there’s some speculation from me after all. And again, Russia holds all the cards and the stack of chips. So, what’s likely to happen is a fait accompli sometime in 2026, one that Trump will have little to do with since the Outlaw US Empire no longer has any leverage.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 16:27 utc | 128

from The Hill. . .
Trump has vowed on Day 1 to return “to a foreign policy that puts America’s interests first,” a sharp reversal from the Biden administration, which emphasized international alliances and led support for Ukraine in its war against Russia.

He has claimed he would end the war between Russia and Ukraine before even taking office, though he has not provided specifics on how he would do so. Trump’s comments have caused alarm among Ukraine’s allies that he will call for a peace deal that allows Russia to claim Ukrainian territory it has invaded.
Trump has similarly sparked concerns about his commitment to NATO. ​​Congress last year approved legislation that would prevent any president from withdrawing the United States from the alliance without approval from the Senate or an act of Congress.
The former president has also mused he would not protect a NATO ally from an attack if they had not contributed an adequate amount to defense spending. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 7 2024 16:28 utc | 129

If censorship retains the power it seized in the last twenty years and if Trump fails to honor big promises, there will be nothing to protect him from a stepped up sequel to 2016-2020. The most powerful interests of the last 50 years and ambitious monsters are trying to work out the solutions at this very moment. Only his supporters offer these bastards anything to think twice about.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Nov 7 2024 16:13 utc | 117
You reminded me of something I stated in a thesis more than a decade ago. The first half of the 21st century true battle is one for information control vs information freedom. Be it IP or news, that is the fight that will determine what this new cycle brings.
P.S. At the time I didn’t notice that financial information (i.e.SWIFT) was the third pillar in this war.
P.P.S. IP not only on itself but on the embodied elements as well, take the embargo on chips and chip tech, take the western weapons with locks/authorization for usage/kill switches and all the SAS control

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 16:29 utc | 130

james @ 113
I am low on optimism. At moment some progress in a few areas is not impossible. We will know soon enough. It would be very simple to enumerate the reasons why Trump can be expected to fuck up again.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 7 2024 16:30 utc | 131

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 7 2024 16:20 utc | 124
Woodward was a naval intelligence officer who came to the job at the WP like a damsel to a child…Many believe he was tasked with exploiting Watergate against Nixon. Who knows, who knows…

Posted by: Larsbo | Nov 7 2024 16:32 utc | 132

@115 juliania
What a blessing to have the power out with a wood stove in a blizzard. All the wonderful sounds and the ambiance!
Some people have all the luck.
Enjoy your book and the cracking from the fire. Heading soon to a wood stove shop in my area for a teeny one.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 7 2024 16:34 utc | 133

“Imo, there’s something a bit creepy about Woodward”
That seems very kind considering that POS wrote the garbage he wrote in “Veil”. Oh yeah, it was Russia that killed JFK.
OMG. what a bad joker.
The only thing worse is seeing how much of a whore Bernstein is.
Then again, light shed.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Nov 7 2024 16:35 utc | 134

@ oldhippie | Nov 7 2024 16:30 utc | 131
well, here’s to hope then..
why would trump do anything different?? foreign policy is irrelevant to most all americans.. it wasn’t a concern for the voters.. he can chant his maga chant and people can feel some warmth, while the leeches on america take it to the cleaners… watching the usa, is like watching a really slow train crash.. until the american people wake up to how they are constantly being taken advantage of, nothing will change.. mind you – voting for trump was the best they could do here, but it just isn’t anywhere good enough as i see it..

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 16:36 utc | 135

Fascist coup? mentioned at the end of today’s piece. That is a contradiction in terms, as Ukraine already exists as a fascist state. So what b is really suggesting here is a changing of the deck hands to a government even more ultra-nationalistic and brutal.

Posted by: mjh | Nov 7 2024 16:37 utc | 136

@ Newbie | Nov 7 2024 16:29 utc | 130
re: SWIFT
Financial institutions use SWIFT to securely transmit information and instructions through a standardized code system. Although SWIFT is crucial to global financial infrastructure, it’s not a financial institution. SWIFT does not hold or transfer assets but facilitates secure, efficient communication between member institutions. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 7 2024 16:37 utc | 137

1) Washington is Agreement Incapable
2) Moscow‘s core war aim is Rollback of NATO to pre-1997 members.
3) The West shot its wad with Sanctions from hell and asset seizures. Moscow couldn’t give a sh*t about ending sanctions or getting it money back. 4% GDP baby.
Therefore: all Trump can do is pull out, and leave Kiev to the Euros.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 7 2024 16:44 utc | 138

Try my answer @52 for one.
As for another point, you might see some strange names but can i remind you of an old quote? “better have them inside pissing on thee outside, than outside, pissing inside”
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 16:01 utc | 107
Either way way merits popcorn.
But I’ll believe goodcop/badcop routine when I see it. My money says a bullet to head led to change of heart. It’s easy to appear heroic in the immediate aftermath of an attack. Over the long term, it worms its way in…

Posted by: Mary | Nov 7 2024 16:45 utc | 139

Is the public ready to stick with Trump while he cleans house? Are we ready to accept major inflation while we re-shore industrial production? Ready to demand the re-allocation of investment away from black holes of corruption (like Defense, health care, higher education, FIRE sector) and into new industrial systems? Are we ready for the immense re-direction of the U.S. role in the world from gangster-bully to constructive member of the world team?
That’s what’s needed.
Is the U.S. public ready to step up, and force Trump to do what’s necessary, or will we continue to take the easy way out, and find another “Hope and Change” pony to ride for a few years, as things remain the same?
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 7 2024 15:08 utc | 83
Here lies the problem- Impossible to do in one term and that’s all he has got. Putin achieved what he did, as he has had 30 years to have a go at it.
So what are we going to see ?
Trump is dumb and thinks America is losing the trade war. So everything he does will all be about MAGA. He has it all backwards. America is winning the trade war and have been winning on trade since they started to run trade deficits.
Tariffs is what we will see. China is the real enemy for MAGA supporters. Ukraine and the Middle East is a pain in the ass they never wanted. Taking on China was always their number one priority.
MAGA is desperate to pivot to China. So they’ll deal with Ukraine and the Middle East as quick as they can. Then the Tariffs will begin. It will be a complete shit show. So get the popcorn out.
If China and Europe and Asia are really clever they should let Trump get his way. If you import a little then the exporters own you. If you import a lot then you own the exporters – because they then have nowhere else to go.
China and Europe and Asia should allow Trump to export as much as the US can and allow them to increase and increase and increase their exports. Until the US runs a trade surplus and they all run trade deficits with the US. Then China and Europe and Asia are winning the trade war. Can finally concentrate on domestic consumption within their own countries along with imports from the US to improve their own standard of living.
Eliminate the export overhang and move to domestic consumption. You’ll note that the Japanese have only just done that, so it ain’t something that is going to happen overnight.
The shift to manufacturing in the 3rd world has generated a huge export overhang with the West. They need to export to the West or their economies collapse. And that is one of the reasons why the Western currencies have remained valuable – because the Eastern countries are forced to run up huge stockpiles of the $ to enable their economies to work.
Trump being as dumb as he is can help them switch that situation around. He will think MAGA is winning when they are in fact losing as he has it all backwards.
China and Europe and Asia just like Japan have always had aspirations to move away from running trade surpluses and to start running trade deficits like the US and UK. It was going to take decades. Trump will make all of their dreams come true.
Unfortunately for China and Europe and Asia . Impossible to do in one term and that’s all Trump has got. Unless MAGA win again at the next election their dreams will be put on hold for a while longer.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Nov 7 2024 16:48 utc | 140

Uncle Sam to EU: Here is a loaded gun.
EU to Uncle Sam: Thank you so much Sam. What do I do with it?
Uncle Sam to EU: Shoot yourself in the left foot.
EU to Uncle Sam: Ouch! That hurt. What about my right foot?
Uncle Sam to EU: So servile dear EU. Shoot yourself in that one as well.
EU to Uncle Sam: Ouch! That really hurt. I’ve fallen flat on my face Sam.
Uncle Sam to EU: Bend over and on EU’re knees.
EU to Uncle Sam: I’m feeling rightly fu€ked Sam.
Uncle Sam to EU: EU are now.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 7 2024 16:51 utc | 141

If Trump actually drops all US support for Ukraine, I expect him to face several assassination attempts by deranged pro-Ukraine fools and by various Ukrainian far-right goons. And considering their number and their foreseeable anger, I’d expect one of them to eventually succeed. Bottom-line, if I was a Trump supporter, i’d actually seriously prepare for civil war.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 7 2024 16:54 utc | 142

@ Newbie | Nov 7 2024 16:29 utc | 130
re: SWIFT
Financial institutions use SWIFT to securely transmit information and instructions through a standardized code system. Although SWIFT is crucial to global financial infrastructure, it’s not a financial institution. SWIFT does not hold or transfer assets but facilitates secure, efficient communication between member institutions. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 7 2024 16:37 utc | 137
But control of the information/transactions that are allowed in the system amount to a full commercial embargo.
Hence the efforts to create parallel systems that bypass it.
It is no less a control system “all the transactions that’s fit to pay” as in information “All the News That’s Fit to Print,” was.
Whoever controls information that is critical for everything from production to transactions and even thoughts and beliefs , controls the world. The spice must flow.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 16:55 utc | 143

*** IMO, those who remain within the broken state now called Ukraine will be polled as to which nation they want to join in what Russia will term Ukraine’s decommunization. Well, there’s some speculation from me after all. ***
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 16:27 utc | 128
How those who lost out on the new trade flow will be interesting indeed. 1940s Wolyn and how that impacts present Polish policy seems to be bubbling up in the consciousness of the West, which leads me to suspect Galicia and Lodomeria will have their own pariah state. Whether the Rusyns and Bukovina separate depends upon how the connections between Odyessa and Hungary, Slovakia and Serbia develop. Just my SWAG.

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 7 2024 16:56 utc | 144

karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 16:27 utc | 128
Russia holds all the cards … fait accompli sometime in 2026, one that Trump will have little to do with since the Outlaw US Empire no longer has any leverage.

I would add China to that equation; and I would move the date back to 2022 when Russia did *not* collapse.
You are correct in noting the USA no longer has any leverage. Few seem to really consider the true import of the defeat of the air superiority doctrine. It obsoletes $trillions spent on carrier groups and maintaining a global land based network. All rendered vulnerable by the emergence of sophisticated missiles. (And I don’t imagine for one moment the MIC didn’t understand this. However, there is/was too much money to be made maintaining the status quo.)
As I’ve said for many years now, defeat in Ukraine means defeat of the dollar. It was imperative to secure Russia’s vast stores of natural resources to crank the leverage machine for the foreseeable future. All gone now, to paraphrase the wicked witch “Oh, what a world, what a world! Who would have thought a poor little gas station with nukes could destroy our beautiful wickedness!”
So now the game is to restructure the dollar system in a *controlled* fashion to allow insiders to manage an orderly escape to the new global financial order. Trump is that guy, done under the guise of popular reform. The people are going to get “their” country back, just like Forrest Gump eventually got Jenny. Used, run through and discarded.

Posted by: markw | Nov 7 2024 16:56 utc | 145

To 98
I can see the similarities but I never though of that – good memory young man.I live in NovoRossiya so its pretty obvious to me – I’ve been to these places so it’s easier to think about their futures and I think Odecca and their ports are going to come back once the war is over. Still a ways to go tho- couple more years if Nato keeps fuckin around. Спасибо

Posted by: GMC | Nov 7 2024 17:01 utc | 146

Escobar’s speculation, “Trumpquake”, covers some areas not mentioned on the thread. IMO, Trump will quickly learn the world has changed greatly since 2021 and not in the Empire’s favor–it’s much weaker now than then, especially militarily but also geoeconomically. Wolff & Hudson are talking with Nima this morning about Trump’s election in a session I’ve yet to watch that will end in a few minutes I’m sure they will provide further speculation capable of enriching that produced by barflies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 17:03 utc | 147

I’ve wondered about this clip from 2019 for a while:
https://www.rferl.org/a/trump-to-zelenskiy-i-really-hope-you-get-together-with-putin-solve-your-problem-/30183897.html
“…solve _your_ problem…”
Z was in way over his head before he started. Sometimes I wonder if Trump was throwing Z a lifeline.

Posted by: Matt | Nov 7 2024 17:11 utc | 148

If you import a little then the exporters own you. If you import a lot then you own the exporters – because they then have nowhere else to go.
This is always at play with regards to China and the EU. Who export a lot.
In any national economy there is the pile of stuff you can make yourself, then there is the pile of stuff you can get from somewhere else which makes your pile bigger (imports), and after that there is the amount of stuff you have to give away to somewhere else which makes your pile of stuff smaller (exports).
The only reason to export is because you can’t get imports for promises (currency). If there are no imports on offer, then you may as well keep what real resources you would have exported for yourself – redeploying manpower as needed to other areas in your economy and focus on domestic consumption.
The whole basis of the industrial revolution in the UK was colossally cheap amounts of energy and expensive labour, which then had to be worked around by mechanisation. Which improved productivity and lifted every ones standard of living.
At the moment the UK economy is backward – cheap imported labour and expensive imported energy.
China, Asia and Europe can turn it around .
Domestic first and foremost. Imports second with ‘structural autarky’, ie diversity of supply across trading blocs focussed on discretionary items with supply sufficient to withstand a failure of one supplier. Exports very much at the back of the queue.
Where imports of needed items are required (you have no more iron ore for example) then that has to be matched with exports the rest of the world will find hard to substitute. Green energy exports would be the best there – synthesised fuels created from the excess generation of nuclear power stations for example.
Trade is necessary, but it is not the most important thing. Provisioning the population is the most important thing.The obsession with exports is the wrong focus. The obsession should be with imports and then providing as little as possible in exports to ensure they turn up.
Producing for domestic consumption, and imports are what improve the standard of living for residents. Not pass through. Not ‘export led growth’.
The needs of the country are not the needs of the exporter. That’s why we left the EU, which favoured UK exporters over UK workers.
Allow Trump to walk into the trap as he has it backwards. MAGA supporters are so stupid they’ll cheer him on as he does it. They think countries pay tariffs lol. Think the US needs funds from tariffs to be able to spend pmsl. Bonkers in other words.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Nov 7 2024 17:18 utc | 149

Americans have voted to join the multipolar world, that’s what Trump ‘putting America’s interests first’ means. We’re not talking here about the wooly, unaccountable definitions of US interests deployed by Beltway deskperts.
And there’s no one less likely than Trump to be waltzed into turning a peripheral game into a strategic impasse, as Johnson was over Vietnam. That applies to China even more than Russia. Politicising inevitable commercial contention with Beijing is massively counterproductive especially when militarised. Learn the lessons from how Russia rebounded from sanctions, Beijing has.

Posted by: Tim Putnam | Nov 7 2024 17:19 utc | 150

How caught up in the western brainwashing about the Ukraine is Trump? Is he fooled into believing, like the NAFO puppies and presstitutes, that Russia is really hurting and they just want a way out of the fight?
To be honest, I doubt it. Trump is much smarter than the caricature in the TDS people’s fragmented minds, and compared with mooks like Biden or Bush Jr (didn’t even have a passport when elected President), Trump is practically a sophisticated cosmopolitan jet-setter. Trump is a deal-maker, and as such must listen carefully to what is actually being said by stakeholders in order to wrangle the best deal. What are the stakeholders’ hard requirements and what can they yield to pressure on? Unlike the bulk of the western Establishment, Trump has probably listened to what Putin and Lavrov have said, and actually processed their words. He knows the Russians have been lied to repeatedly and will not take his word on any agreement, so the Russians’ price will be high. Very high. And require payment in advance because the western Establishment has blown all of its geopolitical credit.
Basically, Trump likely knows that in order to stop the fighting in the Ukraine, he will have to offer the Russians something very big, like membership in NATO and Most Favored Nation trade status. As well, he will have to force elections in the Ukraine, and hide regional referenda in those elections that determine the status of the regions with respect to statehood. The referenda will have to be conducted and monitored by the Russians, as well as perhaps a disinterested third-party (India?).
The Russians might show some interest in an offer like this. At the same time, Trump likely knows his offer to the Russians will have to be this generous to get any traction.
As for the Louis Proyect wannabe bleating such nonsense as “Trump will lose all of his positive media coverage!”, I gotta ask “What you smokin`, Louis Jr?”

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 17:20 utc | 151

I’m pessimistic because I see the “Cuba” problem. It’s a basket case and the sanctions are what, 60-70 years old? Yet, there are still voices demanding sanctions be continued. It’s absurd. Obama tried and failed to fix this.
I see almost nothing changing because there’s always a veto somewhere, in effect. Talk to Russia? You’re a Putin poodle. Force a settlement on Ukraine? That’s betrayal. Ceasefire in Israel? Their lobby says no.
Schumer gave it all away when he said, ‘they got six ways to Sunday to get you’. This might be the most profound statement regarding US geopolitics of this century. The alphabet agencies are in charge and pull the strings. The reason why Blinken shows up and tries to dictate to foreign leaders is simple: he can’t do otherwise, real diplomacy can’t exist because of US medacity and the veto power of interest groups.
The most amazing fact of geopolitics of the next 20 years might be the isolation of the US, in spite of all logic. I fear that the nation can’t change its stance towards the world.

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 7 2024 17:20 utc | 152

Paranaense@1617
Good insights and analyses. Thanks.

Posted by: aristodemos | Nov 7 2024 17:21 utc | 153

What if….
Trump walks into the Oval Office on 21 Jan2025 and does an LBJ. Goes all in on outdoing Biden and the blob and escalates like LBJ in spring 1965.
Won’t change outcomes but US EU decline speeds up.
Fun times

Posted by: paddy | Nov 7 2024 17:24 utc | 154

karlof1@1627
That possibility of Z. demanding that 18 y.o.s be drafted may actually be THE tipping-point.
Why?
It’s quite possible that Putin is somewhat of a traditional Russian Pan-Slavist…and in this situation it’s not only other Slavic people in general, but here we are talking about “Little Russia”…even though Russia as a national concept originated in Kievan Rus, the Swedish/Slavic tribal conglomeration, ultimately converted to Orthodox Christianity by Vladimir the Great.
Could be that effectually killing off the potential breeding capacity for the Ukrainian people would be something which considerate Russians would not even contemplate. Should that be the underlying reality behind V.V. Putin and his associates; it is quite possible that the R.U. military will be given orders for a full-on offensive to take place before those young men could even get a bit of basic training and long before they could be sent to the front. Currently, as we all realize, the AFU forces are tottering, as their holds over easily defended urban areas are fast approaching the zero point. A series of hard, fast-moving assaults would likely engender COLLAPSE of the Ukrainian front.

Posted by: aristodemos | Nov 7 2024 17:33 utc | 155

I do not see Russia settling for anything less than no NATO in Ukraine and territorial concessions of some sort. In addition, I do not think they will even allow a NATO armed Ukranian army to exist. Ukraine must be a buffer between Russia and NATO.
As far as Trump filling his cabinet with NEOCONS that remains to be seen. The rift is deep and his supporters hate the NEOCONS. They want to end this Ukraine business.
Is Trump “agreement capable” in this situation? That remains to be seen. There has been some understand of Russia’s needs in this area. He may surprise everyone.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 7 2024 17:34 utc | 156

Posted by: Duncan Kinder | Nov 7 2024 16:03 utc | 111
###########
Colonizers struggle to understand that after they strip mine a country and destroy the culture, people will leave.
Russia is not driving immigration into Europe. European colonialism is.
Just as American colonialism in the Americas has driven the immigration “crisis” facing the US for the last 70 years.
Stop being an Imperial power, and people will stop flocking to you after you have destroyed their homes.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 17:35 utc | 157

Trump… follows the Barney Fife ethos of nipping problems in the bud. | 3
What problem did Barney Fife ever solve? What problem did Trump ever solve?

Posted by: azeclecticdog | Nov 7 2024 17:38 utc | 158

@ karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 17:03 utc | 147
Ta for reminder on Wolff & Hudson – I will get to it soon …
May I assume that they agree with my #141 above? Odds-on.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 7 2024 17:42 utc | 159

Why do Trump and MAGA supporters have trade backwards?
Everybody knows the answer to that question. Their inbred obsession with gold and fixed exchange rates. Export, Export, Export, export, Export, run massive trade surpluses to get more bricks of gold. LOL!
That in built trade model of centuries ago will not die. Good let them walk head first into a trap with their eyes wide open.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Nov 7 2024 17:42 utc | 160

Stop being an Imperial power, and people will stop flocking to you after you have destroyed their homes. | 157
Great point LoveDonbass

Posted by: azeclecticdog | Nov 7 2024 17:42 utc | 161

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 7 2024 16:20 utc | 124
############
Woodward is well known as a fabulist.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 17:44 utc | 162

During the debate with Biden in June, Trump did say that direct conflict with Russia was not viable due to the nuclear weapons. Usually western leaders cite a rote pledge to use such weapons if deemed necessary. Perhaps Trump’s transactional world view will provide different calculations from the conventional war-mongers.
Trump’s “base” is concerned with domestic issues such as the economy. Will Trump bait-and-switch and escalate the foreign adventures in Ukraine and Middle East? In summer of 2023 the US Congress very quietly suspended the national debt ceiling until January 2025. This ensured the newly elected president would face a fiscal crisis to begin the term (and allowed Biden admin to pump $$ billions into Ukraine and later Israel). Transactionally, the BRICS would rather see a soft landing for the US dollar, but if the Americans insist on remaining at war with Russia and Iran that option will be gone.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 7 2024 17:45 utc | 163

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 17:44 utc | 162
#######
A CIA fabulist who tells Americans what to think about the world as the “Agency” wants them to believe.
To quote Alex Jones, “It’s a war for your mind!”

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 17:48 utc | 164

Posted by: jayc | Nov 7 2024 17:45 utc | 163
Yes, they will do all they can to make Trump fail and take all the blame for all the previous twenty-plus years of waste and failure too. This is to be expected. What are enemies for it you can’t blame things on them?

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 7 2024 17:53 utc | 165

Trump is a deal-maker, and as such must listen carefully to what is actually being said by stakeholders in order to wrangle the best deal. What are the stakeholders’ hard requirements and what can they yield to pressure on? Unlike the bulk of the western Establishment, Trump has probably listened to what Putin and Lavrov have said, and actually processed their words. He knows the Russians have been lied to repeatedly and will not take his word on any agreement, so the Russians’ price will be high. Very high. And require payment in advance because the western Establishment has blown all of its geopolitical credit.
Basically, Trump likely knows that in order to stop the fighting in the Ukraine, he will have to offer the Russians something very big, like membership in NATO and Most Favored Nation trade status. As well, he will have to force elections in the Ukraine, and hide regional referenda in those elections that determine the status of the regions with respect to statehood. The referenda will have to be conducted and monitored by the Russians, as well as perhaps a disinterested third-party (India?).
The Russians might show some interest in an offer like this. At the same time, Trump likely knows his offer to the Russians will have to be this generous to get any traction.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 17:20 utc | 151
That’s why I mentioned @52 that the major problem for a trump administration might be the polish-Lithuanian commonwealth…
What you mention is, for the polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, a betrayal and being downgraded from attack dogs to nuisance status. But that is the pre-97 statu quo ante…

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 17:53 utc | 166

Is Trump “agreement capable” in this situation? That remains to be seen.
Posted by: circumspect | Nov 7 2024 17:34 utc | 156
########
Whether Trump is agreement-capable or not, Putin told Tucker that he knows another President with different priorities will come sooner rather than later.
America is structurally agreement incapable.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 17:53 utc | 167

I would say that a demilitarized (both ways) Ukraine would be a possibility, but the pre-war Ukrainian economy relied heavily on arms exports, so taking arms production away ala Versailles would collapse Ukraine long-term anyway.

Posted by: Phelps | Nov 7 2024 17:56 utc | 168

Re:#2
Forgive me for being out of the loop for weeks now due to concentration on Gaza, but I thought that Zelensky’s term of office had expired. How is he still in power?

Posted by: Litany | Nov 7 2024 18:00 utc | 169

I’m pessimistic because I see the “Cuba” problem. It’s a basket case and the sanctions are what, 60-70 years old? Yet, there are still voices demanding sanctions be continued. It’s absurd. Obama tried and failed to fix this.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 7 2024 17:20 utc | 152
That became a US domestic problem, it means florida and quite a few other constituencies.
Cuba will keep being thrown under the bus, and the current government doesn’t help, unlike fidel they are incompetent, corrupt and care little for the cuban people. There was a time I believed that with a little help from a different EU they might make it, now they’re heading for Haiti status.
And maybe that’s the point as well, haiti was the first to have the nerve to try and make it on their own, and every generation a new country is chosen to be strung out to dry in a cross along the appian way… pax romana way.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 18:01 utc | 170

@ William Gruff | Nov 7 2024 17:20 utc | 151
thanks… and your thoughts on the cia having a say in any of it?? or, the triple complex of military, banking and energy?? you really think these corporations and institutions are going to help trump in any way?? it isn’t just about trump negotiating with russia – a very big if, but also that he will negotiate with the folks in the usa running things at present…
my position – trump is a figure head with very little say in the direction of most of usa affairs internationally… he might have more say domestically though..

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 18:04 utc | 171

Trump will assume power in late January, by then Russia will likely still be months away from being in the position to reach independently even the most basic objectives (the four oblasts, a DMZ etc.). As much as things have worsened for Ukraine they are still only yielding relatively slowly in some places while holding in many others; the potential for at least local counterattacks is likely not exhausted yet either.
To get to something palatable for Russia to settle for a deal Trump would have to engineer a fast collapse by witholding aid, which might be more politically poisonous than he would like. Plus the EU will still support Ukraine and the Pentagon might too, behind his back. He may have no palatable alternative to keep the war going until the ukrainians actually break.

Posted by: Satepestage | Nov 7 2024 18:05 utc | 172

@ jayc | Nov 7 2024 17:45 utc | 163
that’s it jayc… trumps focus is either going to be on domestic, or international? those of us living outside of the usa are focused on the international direcion of usa – foreign affairs…. as i mentioned earlier in the thread – the issue of foreign affairs was not an election issue… amercians excluding some of the folks here at moa – are completely ignorant of the usa on the world stage or with regard to all the wars they’ve started including this one in ukraine.. will that ever change? only if the media did it’s job and that ain’t happening any time soon..

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 18:07 utc | 173

Trump was trying to do civil service reform before they got rid of him next time. Let’s see if his people have a rock-solid plan of action to slash the bureaucracy in the first 6 months of this coming term.
America should have never gotten away from the “spoils system“.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 18:08 utc | 174

I am not surprised.
Total of 148 clashes on battlefield in Ukraine over past day: Pokrovsk and Kurakhove fronts remain hottest https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/11/7/7483331/

Posted by: Dogon Priest | Nov 7 2024 18:15 utc | 175

karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 17:03 utc | 147
Escobar’s speculation, “Trumpquake”, covers some areas not mentioned on the thread. IMO, Trump will quickly learn the world has changed greatly since 2021 and not in the Empire’s favor–it’s much weaker now than then, especially militarily but also geoeconomically.

Yep. While alt.media has some weaknesses, it definitely is setting the table by which the narrative flow now follows months (years?) before the MSM is allowed to broach these kinds of topics to the broader retail audience.
I don’t know why – perhaps a small flicker of remnant patriotic brainwashing – but I’m assuming Trump and his team understand the situation perfectly well. Pepe and so many others who still bitterly harbor a sense of injury seem to delite in assuming Trump is some kind of idiot who doesn’t quite realize the world has changed.
On the contrary, I think he knows exactly what the score is; the trick now is to negotiate and position for the best possible outcome given the facts of the matter. And why not? He’s done exactly this his entire life.
Look, at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter. They fuck around, they’ll find out – a continuation of the new American century will result in a worse outcome. Best to accept the situation and attempt to maneuver a way out.
I keep saying this, so I’ll repeat it here once more: consider – I mean really take a moment to contemplate the past – that it took Russia only 30 years to fully resume its global stature *after the fall of the USSR*. We in the west are nowhere close to that state of affairs – by a country mile. So, consider how quickly we could come back after a managed restructuring.
We could be right back in the saddle within a generation. That’s the assumption I’m going with as far as Trump exercising his popular mandate.

Posted by: markw | Nov 7 2024 18:25 utc | 176

amercians excluding some of the folks here at moa – are completely ignorant of the usa on the world stage
Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 18:07 utc | 173

Americans know for damn sure what side the bread is buttered on, and where their extra serving comes from.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 18:26 utc | 177

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/143607
The contours of the Trump-Vance plan.
Through the American media, they began to throw in the general contours of proposals to end the war in Ukraine, which come from Trump’s entourage.
1. Stopping the war on the current front line with the creation of a kind of dividing demilitarized zone.
2. De facto recognition of the transfer under the control of the Russian Federation of the current controlled territories of the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson regions (without Kherson, Zaporozhye and western Donbass) without legal recognition of their belonging to Russia.
3. Postponement of Ukraine’s accession to NATO for 20 years.
4. Continued arming of Ukraine after the cessation of hostilities.
In the current realities, these conditions actually mean that the Russian Federation will not achieve the goals of the NWO.
1. The current conditions are the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson regions in their full borders, that is, the entire Donbass, the entire north of Zaporozhye and the city of Zaporozhye, the right-bank part of the Kherson region and the city of Kherson. This is what was announced in June. Now the conditions, in connection with the situation at the front, will be even worse.
2. The proposed conditions do not solve the problem of dragging Ukraine into NATO and the threat formed for Russia on the territory of Ukraine. Instead of stopping Ukraine’s involvement in NATO, there is only a formal postponement, and instead of demilitarization, there is the arming of Ukraine.
3. Also, these conditions do not solve the problem of protecting the rights of the Russian and Russian-speaking population in Ukraine, denazification and its general neutralization. 4. Also, these conditions do not solve the problem of legitimization of new regions of the country, issues of sanctions, etc.
In general, these conditions are beneficial to the United States and Ukraine, which will buy time, get a respite for rearmament and resumption of the war at any convenient moment, with even more active involvement of NATO in it.
As the Kremlin has repeatedly noted, negotiations with the United States on Ukraine are possible, but only if systemic issues of indivisible international security are resolved.
The announced conditions do not give Russia much and do not allow it to achieve key goals.
Therefore, in this form, the proposals will almost certainly be rejected. Real negotiations are yet to come.

Posted by: guest | Nov 7 2024 18:26 utc | 178

Here’s an idea for Trump. Let Ukraine into Nato… on the condition that Russia also joins Nato.

Posted by: catdog | Nov 7 2024 18:26 utc | 179

– After having thought A LOT about what Russia is gong to do I think Russia is going to occupy all the ukrainian territory east of the river Dnjper and also wants to have the port of Odessa.
– Is Trump able to resolve this war in 24 hour ? No way. There are simply too many interests that oppose ending the war in the Ukraine.
– There are reports that Russia is destroying the ukrainian power/electricity production. I am VERY curious to see where all those destroyed infratructure is located. If all destroyed infrastructure is only west of the Dnjpre river then this is a sign that Russia is not interested in occupying/annexing that part of the Ukraine. Does “B” has more information/details on this topic ? Or Alexandre Mercouris ? Or john Mearsheimer ? or ……….. .

Posted by: WMG | Nov 7 2024 18:29 utc | 180

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7 2024 17:03 utc | 147
When I heard Wolffs unequivocal stance that tariffs were junk economics and Trump has nothing in terms of substantive policy, I was taken aback. He certainly has the economic credentials to make that proclamation. However, upon reflection, I believe he is wrong because he is ignoring the real structural benefits to the economy of fostering production capabilities in an economy. This is reminiscint of entrenched Ricardian theory in which the US makes advanced microchips and we trade off our textile industry. In fact, the skills that is required in textiles provides a platform to launch more advanced industries, without which, the skills gap in the workforce is too large of a step. This type of logic often stems from Cold Warriors trying to incentive a third war country to join a military pack, rather than sound economic analysis. It also ignores the real wealth transfer into the labor force from the jobs, something a communist economics is professor should be keenly aware of. However, in today’s conversation he emphasized the inflationary impact of tarrifs, which I agree with, but see that as a short term vs a long term issue as more purchasing power is transferred to the labor force. The second arguement above that it is better to import and exchange real goods for a price of paper because you receive something of value for free while interesting suffers from the same short sighted logic. It is therefore why i see most of our esteemed economists have turned the profession into a tool to rationalize their rapacious greed. As Trump spoke said to the Economics Club in Chicago to Bloomberg, WSJ and in reference to traditional economists, they have been wrong for 50 years and don’t know anything.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 18:31 utc | 181

Yes b, I think you’re correc. Even if Trump wanted to end the proxy war, would those who really make the decisions allow it? Judging by his behaviour the last time he was ‘in charge’, I seriously doubt it.

Posted by: Barofsky | Nov 7 2024 18:32 utc | 182

To fix Ukraine is of course not easy, as there are many connections to other matters.
UK and EU are unable to replace the US in ordre to provide support (weapons and money) to Ukraine.
A US withdrawal would mean a Ukraine collapse, EU governments ridiculed (as they mainly followed the US in the Ukrainian adventure), and remaining in a bad economic shape due to costly energy, potentially facing increased US tarifs on their exports to the US, with the many billions question of (Western) Ukraine reconstruction remaining open.
NATO may probably collapse following any US withdrawal from Ukraine, which would also question the entire US policy for Asia and Pacific security.
Difficult to indentify an Ukraine fix acceptable by Russia without a huge change in the world order, US status, in EU vs US relationship, etc.

Posted by: Dany | Nov 7 2024 18:33 utc | 183

The following is not a rare occurrence, it seems that too many people have now had their fill of “restoring order” to let it pass unchallenged.
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/67453

❗️Not all Russian attacks end successfully…
Here’s a Ukr video, which is being shared on some Russian channels in a effort (as they say) to expose a Brigade commander with the call sign “Kashtan”
On Saturday, November 2, as part of a offensive on Belogorovka in the Seversk direction, the brigade commander of the 123rd brigade of the 2nd LPR corps with the call sign “Kashtan” sent the 1st, 2nd, 3rd motorized rifle battalions and the 4th tank battalion into a frontal assault without preparatory actions and without providing fire support.
The attack failed and the attacking force suffered heavy losses.
They also accuse him of not organising an evacuation of the wounded after the fight.
They end the report with the conclusion that such commanders are bigger enemies than the Hohols or Nato and that they more times than not, get away without being called to account

https://t.me/philologist_zov/1685

On the issues of the brigade command’s responsibility for the defeat of the 123rd brigade’s combined assault detachment near Belogorovka on November 2 and the responsibility of the inspection commissions , which have been ignoring any problems in the area for many months.
There are many nuances…
The main nuance is that this case itself is not outrageous. What is outrageous is the widespread practice of organizing attacking actions in such a way that excesses are elevated to an abnormal “norm”.
The lack of fire support for the attackers obviously goes against the statutory requirements, but! No inspection commissions “will see” anything reprehensible, since there are no instructions to save personnel, but there are instructions to protect corporate interests.
In principle, it would make sense to hold the brigade command accountable for such an organization in this particular case.
But! Similar attacks have been carried out with sufficient frequency for a long time by almost all forces involved in this area, i.e. there are many people who could be held accountable.
Furthermore, the commanders of the brigades involved do not act on their own. They receive orders from their superiors, i.e. from the command of the 3rd Combined Arms Army (former 2nd Army Corps), which has been stubbornly butting Belogorovka head-on with these forces for the third year already. Does this superior command provide adequate support to these forces? Why is it butting Belogorovka head-on at all?
Such persistent head-on butting suggests that the command of the 3rd Combined Arms Army receives corresponding instructions from the command of the South group of forces. As far as I understand, the 3rd Combined Arms Army has one separate artillery brigade at its disposal. At the same time, the army is working in several areas. Accordingly, does the command of the group provide adequate support in this particular area? In particular, by massive involvement of aviation. If massive involvement of aviation is impossible for some reason, then does it not make sense to slow down the ground offensive activity? Why is the command of the group head-on attacking Belogorovka with the forces of the 3rd Combined Arms Army? Why is there this fixation on Belogorovka at all?
Let’s move on. The command of the “South” group, in turn, receives tasks from God knows where. Accordingly, the question arises: why hasn’t the General Staff yet worked out a set of measures to ensure the cutting off of the Seversky salient without butting head-on into this damned Belogorovka? If, due to some reasons and circumstances, cutting off the Seversky salient still doesn’t seem possible (which, in my opinion, is debatable, because the Seversky Donets is helping us and the situation in the Serebryansky forestry is not critical in this case), then what is the point of all these head-on butts? What countless enemy forces and resources are hampering all these failed attacks? Isn’t it time to reconsider the “inflicting a thousand cuts” concept altogether? (In my opinion, it was flawed from the start.) Plus, the forces of the “South” group are torn apart not only into several areas, but generally between operational directions that are far apart from each other. To what extent does this arrangement correspond to the overall effectiveness of the group’s actions? And also – is it normal at all to drag units across several areas with sagging communications, supplies and support?
In general, the nuances are such that we eventually reached the highest military leadership with questions…
But! Everything rests precisely on the institutionalization of irresponsible expenditure of personnel.
With such responsibility throughout the army vertical, domestic military thought would most likely have finally stirred in the direction of a radical increase in the quality of organization and support of combat work, taking into account the ratio of resources expended and results achieved.
P.S. The above does not cancel out the questions posed in the first paragraph. We have already realized that with systemic transformations in the army everything is very tight, therefore, it would be possible to achieve some positive changes at least through small local shifts.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 7 2024 18:35 utc | 184

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 18:31 utc | 181
Dream on Turk. It’s way too late to turn things around. The ‘best’ thing the US can do is start a major war, wipe out all that surplus capital and start all over again. But it’ll be the last time.

Posted by: Barofsky | Nov 7 2024 18:35 utc | 185

Here’s an idea for Trump. Let Ukraine into Nato… on the condition that Russia also joins Nato.
Posted by: catdog | Nov 7 2024 18:26 utc | 179
#############
I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not. That might have been a good idea a decade ago.
Russians have shed a lot of blood, fighting NATO in Ukraine since ’22, and civilians in Kursk this year. Those are people’s relatives and family friends. Joining would be tantamount to a Russian defeat.
Your point is well made in that the West has nothing it can give the Russians that the Russians aren’t on the verge of taking themselves. Westerners haven’t adapted to the reality that we’re in a multi-polar and post-hegemon world now. 4 years is a long time.
Ask yourself what would happen to the DPRK pact and the looming Iranian mutual defense pact with Iran if Russia joined NATO.
Would you rather militarily ally with Estonia and the Czech Republic or North Korea and Iran?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2024 18:40 utc | 186

I mean really take a moment to contemplate the past – that it took Russia only 30 years to fully resume its global stature *after the fall of the USSR*. We in the west are nowhere close to that state of affairs – by a country mile.
Posted by: markw | Nov 7 2024 18:25 utc | 176

America started to consume its natural resources at industrial scale in the 1860s. Since then the iron, coal and timber have played out. Oil is forced to the surface by fracking with poor production margins.
Russia didn’t really industrialize until Stalin got things rolling in the 1930s. With a smaller population, less time in exploitation and a bigger country Russia has a much larger reserve of natural wealth to capitalize.
Basically America’s robber barons got a 100 year head start on Russia’s oligarchs. America’s lands have been picked clean. Russia’s not so much.
Consider the reason that the West wants to splinter Russia. To steal its remaining natural resource wealth.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 18:44 utc | 187

@ too scents | Nov 7 2024 18:26 utc | 177
lol.. true! but do they know the need to screw of the poor to keep the rich fat is also built into all of this?? some do..
@ too scents | Nov 7 2024 18:44 utc | 187
regarding your last sentence – apparently stealing all of canada’s resources isn’t enough… russia must be exploited too!! then there is africa and the rest of the world… apparently the raping and pillaging is still going on, but it is other players trying to cut in on the action… the world cop can’t have that!!

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2024 18:50 utc | 188

Russia should know any compromises made by US/NATO are only made to reinforce military positions and broken when an advantage is perceived. Because “a second Trump administration represents the violent realignment of the American political superstructure to correspond with the real social relations that exist in the United States” Russia must insist any cessation of the conflict in Ukraine means no NATO membership and the disarmament of Ukraine’s military and fascists. Otherwise the capitalist quest to consume Russia will continue.

Posted by: Keme | Nov 7 2024 18:57 utc | 189

The entire SouthEast Asia is run off of Tarrifs or disguised trade barrier and Wolff is still claiming it doesn’t work? Has he visited Japan or China lately?

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 18:57 utc | 190

@100
Trump is legitimately a dolt though and its an absolute guarantee people like Putin think of him as such. Just because he ‘says’ he doesn’t want WW3 doesn’t make him smart.
What I found funny about U.S. voters is this continuation of ‘my favorite team is in’ or ‘lesser evil’ mentality when really corporations and the elite want people to be confused and divided. That’s always been the game, Trump isn’t your friend, Harris isn’t your friend.
Your average voter will never wake up from that reality, since the simplest propaganda is quite effective.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 7 2024 18:59 utc | 191

The Europeans would bicker about our dropping support for Ukraine?
I doubt it. I and my wife have European family members and friends – no one that I know is happy about Ukraine. They would all like for it to end – whatever it takes.

Posted by: ian | Nov 7 2024 19:02 utc | 192

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 7 2024 15:08 utc | 83
Pretty much all true.
There are several things that give me just a little bit of hope:
Firstly Trump is a money man – the reality is that the USA just no longer has the cash to splash. With two current and one emerging (China) to support, there just is not the money to support endless wars and he will need to somehow restore faith in the US dollar. I doubt it will work but I expect him to try. For Trump the Ukraine war is his lowest priority so I expect it to be ditched.
Secondly, despite the rhetoric of being a warrior, look at what Trump actually did in the past, or more to the point what he did not do. He did not extend or inflame the Syrian conflict and in fact while he did some PR stunts where everyone looked tough, he actually did very little.
Third, Europe is in deep trouble. That joke about Trump not ending the Ukraine war in 24 hours but succeeding in Germany has some element of truth. Germany, France and yes the UK are in political turmoil. Their leadership of Europe is done and the replacement unpredictable – Poland possibly. Whatever I suspect Europe will be clamouring for a solution – even if brokered by hated Trump.

Posted by: watcher | Nov 7 2024 19:04 utc | 193

There is an article published on today’s Foreign Policy website that advances an argument and a proposal. The argument:

With Donald Trump’s election victory this week, it’s clear that the president-elect will not be nearly as supportive of Ukraine’s fight against Russia as the current administration—and may well abandon Ukraine entirely. Such a reality is already resounding in Ukraine, with plenty of hand-wringing in Kyiv about how Trump will pull the United States back from its fight.

This much of the piece is the reverse side of b’s post, taking the point of view of supporters of a NATO-aligned Ukraine registering the changing winds of American policy. Casey Michel, the author of the piece, places the interests of the NATO/Ukraine at the center of his piece. How should they respond to the threat Trump poses to their interests? He makes a proposal:

But Ukraine no longer has the luxury of waiting for NATO membership. With every passing day, and especially with the reelection of Trump, the reality increasingly dawns that if we’re to guarantee Ukrainian statehood, the West must welcome Ukraine into NATO—or it must start getting ready for Ukraine to rejoin the same nuclear club it was once a part of all those years ago.

Michel repeats a threat first stated by Zelensky at the European Council summit in Brussels on October 17, when he said, “Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons and that will be our protection or we should have some sort of alliance. Apart from NATO, today we do not know any effective alliances.“
Ukrainian nuclear rearmament is a dream of death. Russia will certainly never allow it. The Russian military would bring its full might to bear to prevent it, and it would use every diplomatic lever available to it including calls for military aid from Belarus, condemnation from China, and threats of retaliation against all NATO enablers.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/11/07/ukraine-now-faces-a-nuclear-decision/?tpcc=recirc_latest062921

Posted by: a stone | Nov 7 2024 19:05 utc | 194

@Turk 152 | Nov 7 2024 18:31 utc
I agree with your assertion that re-investment in domestic production is necessary, and that protective tariffs will help that to happen, and that short-to-medium term inflation will be part of the price of that rebuild process.
As others have noted, the re-investment in domestic production has issues; getting the oligarchy on-side, and keeping the public on-side during the process is one major challenge.
Getting the rent-seekers out of housing, education, health-care, etc. in order to reduce cost of living of the workers is another one. If we expect to export, that’s going to have to get done.
There’s another point, and that is “what products will we produce?”. If we try to produce the same products the rest of the world is, we’re not going to make a lot of progress. They have advantages over us (lower cost of living, better access to materials, for ex)
The successful emerging and emergent economies strategically picked product lines that created a lot of wealth, and that the country in question had a strategic advantage producing. That’s how they made their place in the world economy.
What could the U.S. produce that other countries might not be able to, or want to?
Suppose that the West decided “we’re not going to compete on the basis of labor, or cheap raw materials”. Why would they decide that?
Because we, increasingly, cannot compete on that basis.
Well, what if we elected to compete on the basis of our ability to conceive, design, and produce products that don’t need a lot of imported energy, or materials to make? What if we elected to produce not just the product, but the production systems that make the product?
That would change a few things.
If you don’t like the products I suggested the U.S. learn to produce, what products would you recommend that we excel at producing?
(please, stick to products the rest of the world, including ourselves, might actually _want_ to buy, .vs. forced to buy at gunpoint).

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 7 2024 19:06 utc | 195

I think the best advise for the us right now is quite simple.
…like its too late for your unders but you might still save your pants.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 7 2024 19:11 utc | 196

Gruff, catdog —
How could Russia possibly be interested in an offer to join NATO? NATO is, after all, a US protection racket: buy lots of worthless US armaments, and maybe the US won’t coup your government.
There’s no benefit whatsoever in Russia’s joining NATO

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 7 2024 19:12 utc | 197

“The entire SouthEast Asia is run off of Tarrifs or disguised trade barrier and Wolff is still claiming it doesn’t work? Has he visited Japan or China lately?”
Exactly Turk 152 –
Tariffs do work but, there is an art to them and the Asians, particularly China, are the masters of mercantilism. So, if recklessly employed they will fail, just like most of the tools of statecraft. Economists are the most highly propagandized students within the university system, the “profession” was birthed from the Theology Department and it still retains the umbilical cord to it’s doctrinaire womb.

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 7 2024 19:20 utc | 198

Don’t see much point in speculating on what Trump may or may not do at this point in time. His inauguration is still over 2½ months away; measured using a different metric that’s at least 150,000 Ukrainian casualties away.
Lots can (and probably will) happen between now and then.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 7 2024 19:20 utc | 199

*** Basically America’s robber barons got a 100 year head start on Russia’s oligarchs. America’s lands have been picked clean. ***
Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2024 18:44 utc | 187
So they say. This allows a discussion about “common sense” regulation “allowing” discovery of new resources. Nothing dirty like existing energy resources. Green is best!
Qui Bono? The incumbent interests. I don’t believe that US energy is at a peak for a single second.

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 7 2024 19:21 utc | 200