Elections Have Consequences - We Just Don't Know Which
U.S. President-elect Donald Trump is selecting a number of hawkish people to fill his cabinet.
There are currently a lot of hot takes what these appointees will do.
- Marco Rubio, the likely Secretary of State, may want to launch a new coup in Venezuela.
- Michael Waltz, the potential national security advisor, is anti-Russian and anti-China.
- Elise Stefanik, a Zionist, will serve as the Israel's second ambassador to the United Nations.
If there were no limits either of these people would launch new wars.
That Trump is selecting rightwing nuts is not unexpected. He needs their backing to push things through.
But the fact that Trump is selecting these people does not mean that he will listen to them or follow their advice. His first term demonstrated that the people he selects often do not last. There is thus no reason to despair over this or that bonehead selection.
There are also objective reason why policies Trump or his acolytes might want to pursue might well be impossible. To lower taxes while the budget deficit is at a record and interest rates are high is not really doable. To push Ukraine towards a victory will fail due to facts on the ground. Any itch to attack Iran carries a high risk of a military defeat.
We will have to wait for the administrations real policy decisions to anticipate where it will go. A good sign will be when Trump succeeds in implementing policies that the hawks he has chosen oppose.
I am not really optimistic about that. My earlier prediction still holds:
[Trump] had previously chosen people who were opposing and sabotaging his policies. He lacked the authority and/or will to rein them in. I do not believe that he has learned from it.
But maybe he did learn from it. I for one will try to stay objective and to give him a chance.
Posted by b on November 12, 2024 at 16:42 UTC | Permalink
next page »No one has forgotten it was trump who ordered the assassination of an Iranian general along with several Iraqis. Nor that his psycho son-in-law was bounced on nuttyahoo's knee as little little hat. Pompeo, Bolton, Abrams, etc. then now 'we'll coup who we want' Musk and his promise to be a dictator 'on day one'.
The smart money is getting the fuck out now before the walls they erect and internment camps they build will be used against the people.
Posted by: motorslug | Nov 12 2024 16:50 utc | 2
Chance for what? Bring everlasting peace to Gaza? Jeez, who's the bonehead now.
Posted by: J99 | Nov 12 2024 16:52 utc | 3
They call it 'Project 2025' but it should be called Project 1025 because that's the time in history they want to go back to, before the enlightenment, science and logic.
Posted by: motorslug | Nov 12 2024 16:53 utc | 4
"I for one will try to stay objective and to give him a chance."
I would think that staying "objective" should mean "seeing things as they are and not as how we would like them to be". Copium and Hopium are dangerous drugs when not monitored responsibly.
Trump, to all appearances, is doing exactly what he did the first time - he's pandering to those who shovel money at him by appointing traitors to positions from where they can do the most harm. No matter how positive a spin you want to put on this situation, it's not looking good for sane people in the USA.
Posted by: arthurdecco | Nov 12 2024 16:55 utc | 5
The only meaning I can see in "give him a chance" is, shut your mouth instead of criticizing Trump. The corollary, blame his underlings for any supposed failures, can be added at will?
It's all sort of academic, the whole point of Trumpery is to give him a blank check. Done. He will do what he will do and we will have nothing to do about it. I suppose the advice to not even say anything about it fits that program, though.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 12 2024 16:55 utc | 6
"There is thus no reason to despair over this or that bonehead selection."
Tend to agree. There is so much spin and speculation in all this coverage lately. Yes, he's more than capable of continuing the foreign policy debacle of his predecessors, but it's still way to soon to tell.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 12 2024 17:00 utc | 7
I think Trump was elected the 2nd time for the same reasons as the first time: a thumb in the eye of the establishment. For that, he should work just fine.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 12 2024 17:03 utc | 8
Trump's words are just that, words.
The only thing that matters are his actions.
Until he is sworn in, assuming he ever is, no real action can be taken other than selecting staff. But his picks so far are not encouraging at all.
Have to assume that since he was allowed to win and the other side did everything it could to lose, Trump is the DS/TPTB desired puppet.
Hope I am wrong, but really doubt it.
Posted by: saner | Nov 12 2024 17:05 utc | 9
I agree with B that Trump hasn't learned enough from his 1st term to be effective. His self-confidence is undeserved when dealing with an amorphous blob of bureaucracy that can throw up obstacles and friction that will thwart his short attention span management abilities.
Posted by: Eric Blair | Nov 12 2024 17:06 utc | 10
for one will try to stay objective and to give him a chance.
Posted by b on November 12, 2024 at 16:42 UTC | Permalink
---
Fate is also objective and gives everybody one chance.
Cruel Fate.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 12 2024 17:08 utc | 11
Only thing I can read here are progressives venting that the election didnt go their way.
Trump will do what he was elected to do: america first. That there is some zio-this or zio-that is a natural thing.
Posted by: alek_a | Nov 12 2024 17:10 utc | 12
america first.
Posted by: alek_a | Nov 12 2024 17:10 utc | 11
---
That ship sailed with Reagan. Trump hasn't got a time machine.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 12 2024 17:15 utc | 13
You are right, alek.... america first - not 'we the people' but the kleptocracy that controls the system.
Posted by: motorslug | Nov 12 2024 17:19 utc | 14
Mmmmh... the Rubio appointment seems to be fake news as the NYT author is no friend of Trump... he complained about her earlier...
https://x.com/antiwarmisfit/status/1856376485822472247
Posted by: mk | Nov 12 2024 17:13 utc | 401
Posted by: mk | Nov 12 2024 17:20 utc | 15
Waltz is a neocon idiot who claims Russia is a gas station with nukes...Stefanik is a Zionist nut..Rubio is not very smart...The fortunate fact, however, is that the US is too weak to attack even Iran, and with Russia and China backing Iran, the result would be catastrophic for Americans...
Posted by: Pyrrhus | Nov 12 2024 17:21 utc | 16
Trump killed the Iranian general in Iraq because the general was killing americans. He played a rough game and paid with his life. He knew the rules.
I don't see Trump engaging full scale war anywhere though. He'll let the zionists and azovs peter out their wars. Not much else he can do, unless he publicly disavows them, which is unlikely. The neighbors will have more say than Trump, by his design.
Posted by: seer | Nov 12 2024 17:21 utc | 17
So if were going to be honest and unbiased about this subject.
What is trumps plan for Gaza, Palistinians and Lebanan ?
And if any one is brave enough to defend his position on this subject, i would like to know how and why.
Shame shame shame.
Nothing else matters.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 12 2024 17:22 utc | 18
It’s down to which professors he picks as his gurus
Snyder? Mearsheimer? Sachs?
Hawk or Dove
Maximalist or minimalist imperialists?
He could do no better than Diesen.
‘Glenn Diesen
@Glenn_Diesen
7h
The West's Dangerous Self-Delusions & the Conflict With Russia
All great power rivalry is reduced and dumbed-down to a struggle between liberal democracy and authoritarianism. This simplistic heuristics compels self-delusion and the failure to maximise our own security. Peace is no longer achieved by mitigating the security competition, rather it requires defeating the world’s largest nuclear power to establish a hegemonic peace. The absurdity requires strict narrative control, which implies that facts and reality must not be allowed to disrupt the narrative. The people pushing their narratives are convinced that they are virtuous, even as they are making Europe less secure, less prosperous, and less independent.
lnkd.in/d-XfHB8r
Nov 12, 2024 · 8:36 AM UTC ‘
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 12 2024 17:25 utc | 19
C'mon b, you can't trust MSM reports based on anonymous 'people familiar'.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 12 2024 17:26 utc | 20
@mk | Nov 12 2024 17:20 utc | 14
Thanks for that, interesting if true.
So the losers are firing their MLRS's loaded with lies and rumors now, hoping that some of it will stick.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 12 2024 17:26 utc | 21
Posted by: seer | Nov 12 2024 17:21 utc | 16
Thank you
I like it when you expose yourself
no pun
Posted by: ld | Nov 12 2024 17:27 utc | 22
No truer paragraph if I have ever read:
"There are also objective reason why policies Trump or his acolytes might want to pursue might well be impossible. To lower taxes while the budget deficit is at a record and interest rates are high is not really doable. To push Ukraine towards a victory will fail due to facts on the ground. Any itch to attack Iran carries a high risk of a military defeat."
Don't forget:
Kristi Noem chosen to lead DHS, Homeland Security. https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/12/politics/kristi-noem-homeland-security-secretary/index.html
Rumors of Kari Lake for Trump Press Secretary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY1dLJ7YKAk&t=65s
Lee Zeldin to lead EPA https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-taps-lee-zeldin-lead-environmental-protection-agency-rcna179658
Scott Bessent for Treasury Secretary. https://x.com/EricLDaugh/status/1856165944449511866
Kash Patel under consideration to run CIA. https://archive.is/9EOSX
Holman & Wiles
Plus, Black Women Blaming Black Men For Harris Loss https://shorturl.at/mq0kH
Posted by: Dogon Priest | Nov 12 2024 17:28 utc | 23
@seer | Nov 12 2024 17:21 utc | 16
Trump killed the Iranian general in Iraq because the general was killing americans. He played a rough game and paid with his life. He knew the rules.Soleimani was on a peace mission to Saudi Arabia, and the Empire could not have that. So the neocons killed Soleimani and told Trump to own it, and he did.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 12 2024 17:28 utc | 24
The plan: Support Trump for now because to do otherwise will put the Deep State or the Blob or the Washington Establishment back in charge. You choose the name.
Posted by: Jmaas | Nov 12 2024 17:29 utc | 25
@DunGroanin | Nov 12 2024 17:25 utc | 18
Professor Glenn Diesen is one of very few Norwegians deserving respect. None of the politicians do.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 12 2024 17:32 utc | 26
What a waste of time speculating. Wait until he's in office and starts his implementations. Only then will you have an idea of what is happening, and what the consequences will be. Be grateful he prevented another Dem administration, which would've been a continuation and expansion of the nightmare we are already in.
Posted by: alfred | Nov 12 2024 17:32 utc | 27
I guess we'll see more feudalism for the Blob's corporate "donators" (lower corporate taxes and laxed regulations) and much, much more totalitarian capitalism for Joe Sixpack and Jane Sixkids... Geopolitically, the Empire is but halfway down the slope and it will be quite a ride to the "finish line".
That's the way the cookis crumbles in the best political system that money can buy!
Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Nov 12 2024 17:33 utc | 28
Trump's first term was hampered by being unable to fill dozens of official positions due to Congressional opposition. He also had 4 Chiefs of Staff. I'm optimistic that Suzy Wiles will help him to fill most posts with worthwhile people and quickly correct any erroneous appointments.
i.e. No more Walruses.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 12 2024 17:33 utc | 29
"Soleimani was on a peace mission to Saudi Arabia,"
.
.
Perhaps, but his corpse was in Iraq, where he'd killed Americans. If he was on a real diplomatic mission, I'd be for it, but I doubt he was.
Posted by: seer | Nov 12 2024 17:33 utc | 30
@seer | Nov 12 2024 17:33 utc | 27
Do you doubt the sunrise too? Here is a random link about it from February 2020
Iran's Soleimani killed while carrying message to resolve Saudi tensions
Iran's most powerful general Qassem Soleimani was carrying a message about Tehran's desire to resolve tensions with Saudi Arabia when he was killed by an American drone strike last month.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 12 2024 17:38 utc | 31
seer means he killed ISIS mercs that were trained and paid for by americans
Posted by: motorslug | Nov 12 2024 17:38 utc | 32
I think it was Alaster Crooke , who said the other day, Trump doesn't like Bibi (not just for siding with Biden after the 2020 elections) but also because the assistnation of the General Solemoni was suppose to be a joint operation with Bibi,,who backed out at the last moment...
Posted by: dp | Nov 12 2024 17:39 utc | 33
Perhaps, but his corpse was in Iraq, where he'd killed Americans. If he was on a real diplomatic mission, I'd be for it, but I doubt he was.
Posted by: seer | Nov 12 2024 17:33 utc | 30
_____
Ah yes, America’s illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq…
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 12 2024 17:40 utc | 34
A few things about Trump.
First Trump is a Judeo-Christian, and that means Juadism is a priority over Christianity. The unfortunate thing about this is that most Christian ascribe to that view.
Second, Trump believes Israel's interests are the United States interest. This is a perverted form of Zionism, that has global finacial, energy and geographic dimensions.
Third, Trumps decision making is family based. This is especially true of his Zionism that subverts US interests. In a previous post, I stated "Jared is Back". Trumps Zionist family goes well beyond his immediate circle.
Fourth, Trumps naming Scott Bessent as Treasury Secretary not only brings Soros into the US financial policy realm, but also the Clintons. Huma Abedin is Hillary's spit swapping spirtual sister, and is soon to marry the baby Soros, Alex.
Fifth, Trump will proceed to make Europe totally dependent on Israeli and US energy. Interestingly, its not only something Trump wants but the European Union. It will be the long term strategy to keep wacking Russia out if Europe.
Sixth, Trump will acquiesce to Israel annexing yhe West Bank, and negotiate the establishment of Jewish City States in the Ukraine. Major geopolitical realignments will occur as a result.
Posted by: Jerr | Nov 12 2024 17:41 utc | 35
" Do you doubt the sunrise too? "
.
.
No, but I doubt stray propaganda, especially when Saudis are quoted in your own propaganda as denying knowledge of this diplomacy you claim.
The guy got turned to hamburger because he played the game and lost.
Posted by: seer | Nov 12 2024 17:44 utc | 36
I think, as regular republican term, "Anti-socialist regime mood" is guaranteed.
Anti-Cuba, Anti-Venezuela, Anti-China etc.
Originally, the hawks in the Republican Party disliked these people. Trump does not like socialists by nature either.
Naturally, he just behaves in his usual exclusionary way towards countries where these socialist parties are at the top.
Posted by: Nokaz | Nov 12 2024 17:45 utc | 37
I continue to doubt that Trump will go to war in a big way. To my mind it's too much work, sitting in the war room looking alert for weeks on end, when he'd prefer to be in his room tweeting away. A single night's strike I can believe, as with Suleimani, but not a long war. That means no US attack on Iran. And that, no matter who gets appointed.
Ritter, talking at the moment of writing, doesn't believe much of the names being quoted. I doubt if it matters. Even if hawks are appointed, he won't listen to them, as his personal convenience is more important.
Posted by: laguerre | Nov 12 2024 17:46 utc | 38
thanks b..
i like your optimism and desire to remain impartial..
@ seer | Nov 12 2024 17:21 utc | 17 quote -
''he was killing amerikkans''... - yeah, wonder why the usa was in iraq anyway?? oh right.. exceptional nation status, lol..
Posted by: james | Nov 12 2024 17:47 utc | 39
Fans of J.D. Vance may keep in mind https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/constitutional-amendments-amendment-25-addressing-presidential-succession-process
Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 12 2024 17:47 utc | 40
The Democrat's gave the America's voters no choice between a pro-war policy and a pro-peace policy;so here we are, the stage is being set for Armageddon.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 12 2024 17:48 utc | 41
tds is coming. Where is Tulsi.
Btw, tds = trump delusion syndrome.
Or: there's a terrible smell in here; have you just trumped?
Posted by: Naive | Nov 12 2024 17:52 utc | 42
The Trump adminisrtation will oversee the annihilation of Palestinians. Severe oppression of the Shiites in Lebanon. Escalation of aggression against Iran, including a high probability of a nuclear attack by Israel. Increased attempts to overthrow Bolivarianism in Venezuela, with the goal of unleashing a Pinochet dictatorship. A pivot of US war planning from Russia to China. The propaganda has already flipped its focus to China.
Posted by: keme | Nov 12 2024 17:52 utc | 43
Enjoy the interlude. We get to project our hopes for peace onto DJT - in a few months we find out how Trump wants to be remembered - as a peacemaker, or as the Deep State selected war time president who will reinstate the draft for final war against Russia and China.
Unfortunately, tend suspect the latter not the former, and haven't yet seen anything to convince me otherwise.
We shall see said the blind man.
Posted by: Simpleton | Nov 12 2024 17:52 utc | 44
Here is another consequence of the election
5-Year Treasury 4.321 +0.126 +3.00%
10-Year Treasury 4.433 +0.125 +2.90%
30-Year Treasury 4.575 +0.1 +2.23%
This appears to be organic, but Yellin still has almost 2 months to poison the well.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 12 2024 17:58 utc | 45
When I think about how Trump will deal with people in his administration, an incident with Gina Haspel always comes to mind. It was reported that Haspel showed Trump pictures of dead ducks and young children being hospitalized, supposedly by Russian agents during the Skripal incident. Trump then chose the CIA Director's preferred option, further escalating tension with Russia.
What do others think about this? First, do you think this (story about Haspel) is true? If you do think it is true, what does it say about Trump going forward? My gut feeling about Trump is that he is easy to manipulate and lacks any kind of coherent view about foreign policy. He will create policy by whim and fancy, but only based on the options presented to him by people around him. I'm extremely skeptical Trump has any policy preferences. Sometimes it sounds like he does because he is good at responding to his crowds and his base, but he is just reflecting their sentiments. As soon as he is with foreign policy elites he'll reflect back to them what they want.
I'm hopeful emotionally about Trump taking a different path, but I think an honest intellectual assessment says that he will end up making terrible decisions.
Here is an example from a Politico article of the reporting I'm talking about (April 18, 2019 2:47 pm CET
By Paul Dallison, https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-local-council-to-donald-trump-no-ducks-were-harmed-in-spy-poisoning/):
"The Times report said Trump was against heeding the U.K.’s call for action against Russia, saying he had “written off the poisoning as part of legitimate spy games.” However, Trump reportedly changed his mind when Haspel showed him “pictures the British government had supplied her of young children hospitalized after being sickened by the Novichok nerve agent that poisoned the Skripals. She then showed a photograph of ducks that British officials said were inadvertently killed by the sloppy work of the Russian operatives.”
The report says the photos persuaded Trump to change his mind and he ordered the expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats."
Posted by: Peter L. | Nov 12 2024 17:59 utc | 47
By the end of the Trump administration the economy will be in recession and become worse than the market failure of 2008. The recession will be blamed on China, not domestic inequality, and Americans will be primed for war against China. Whether or not Trump will use the excuse of war to remain in office will be determined by his health.
Posted by: Keme | Nov 12 2024 17:59 utc | 48
@too scents #45
Yellen has the IQ of a 1 star movie review.
Posted by: Dogon Priest | Nov 12 2024 18:05 utc | 49
10 year stubbornly stuck at 3.4%.
The Federal Gov‘t is insolvent. Washington just hasn’t figured it out yet.
2025 budget battles will be brutal. 2027 budget battles will be epic as the 10 year rises to 5% maybe even 7%.
The only way to save the Federsl Gov‘t as it exists today is to restructure Federal Debt. The Plaza Accords of 1985 saved the Federal Gov‘t by devaluing the dollar by 50%. …….
Posted by: Exile | Nov 12 2024 18:07 utc | 50
Never give a US President the benefit of the doubt, this is about blame deflection, the only thing that matters to our poltiicans. He laid his cards on the table; he is spamming us with NeoCons and warhawks and will only retract them when there is a public outcry to appear responsive to his constituency. He will then pin his upcoming military escalation in Isarel on his neocon cabinet and play the fool with ADHD who cant remember what he said last week. Trump is not a fool, he knows exactly who these people are, as he stated over and over again on his campaign trail.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 12 2024 18:10 utc | 51
Trump needs to worry about the U.S. economy!
US job growth is almost all new government jobs!
US deficits are typical of government fueling the economy w/o deficits U.S. GDP would be highly negative, now the monetary authority is cutting rate like US is in recession.
These economic problems will hit home soon.
Maybe war can put off the depression a little longer.
Posted by: paddy | Nov 12 2024 18:10 utc | 52
Here is another consequence of the election5-Year Treasury 4.321 +0.126 +3.00%
10-Year Treasury 4.433 +0.125 +2.90%
30-Year Treasury 4.575 +0.1 +2.23%
This appears to be organic, but Yellin still has almost 2 months to poison the well.Posted by: too scents
Barflies these are the only numbers that really count. The Bond Market is brutally honest
Posted by: Exile | Nov 12 2024 18:11 utc | 53
****** Peter L. @ 47
"My gut feeling about Trump is that he is easy to manipulate and lacks any kind of coherent view about foreign policy. He will create policy by whim and fancy, but only based on the options presented to him by people around him."
************
I see those tendencies also.
I think he actually views himself as the "Wild Card", and
his personality has forned around that self-conceptualiztion.
Posted by: Jerr | Nov 12 2024 18:12 utc | 54
""I for one will try to stay objective and to give him a chance.""
The Existientialist Christian Danish philosopher Søren Kirkegaard once wrote:
"While the grass grew, the cow died, due to her being objective"
("Medens græsset groede, døde Koen, thi hun forholdt sig objektiv."=
Posted by: Tollef Ås | Nov 12 2024 18:12 utc | 55
Yellen has the IQ of a 1 star movie review.
Posted by: Dogon Priest | Nov 12 2024 18:05 utc | 49
---
Yellen's husband won the (fake) Nobel Prize in Economics for his study on the effect of information asymmetry on pricing. Cheating rubes was also Yellen's field of academic study.
Her stoopidity is an act she puts on as shill role play.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 12 2024 18:13 utc | 56
"it iscreportedvthat" Until Trump officially names the names the "report" may be just an attempt to influence nominations.
Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Nov 12 2024 18:18 utc | 57
iscreportedvthat = it is reported that
Aaaaargh
Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Nov 12 2024 18:20 utc | 58
I do despair B but I hope I am wrong.
I could live with some nutjobs but, if the NY Times is telling the truth and on occasion they have been lucid enough to do so, then the elevation of Marco Rubio to SoS is cause for despair.
Why?
Well, because...that would put a nutjob in the line of succession. Had he put Gabbard of Vivek in that post it would have been a very good life insurance policy, now the election can be overturn in a single "accident" or "terrorist-attack" by the, take your pick, Iranians, Russians, Chinese et al.
You get my point, the election can be overturned by the deep state in one fell swoop. I despair.
Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 12 2024 18:27 utc | 59
One suspects that Trump will improve his MAGA rating if he recommends Jewrael's Superior Beings for the Nobel Prize for vomit-inducing cowardice and mendacity.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 12 2024 18:29 utc | 60
It's the Deep State, Stupid: Why US Foreign Policy Won't Change Much Under Trump
https://www.rt.com/news/607508-changes-us-foreign-policy-trump/
"Tactical changes can be expected from the administration of the 47th president, but the strategic shift is unlikely to shift."
Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 12 2024 18:30 utc | 61
But maybe he did learn from it. I for one will try to stay objective and to give him a chance.
Trumped learned, or had reinforced on him what he knew his whole life, go with the flow. He's lazy, unimaginative, shallow and lacking fortitude, he'a a facilitator, that's how narcissists function, they can't take a blow to their ego, so they accomodate then boast about their genius and their skill at "the art of the deal".
This time Trump did not crash the GOP primary clown car, he's not a lone wolf, not a usurper, not an iconoclast. The GOP fully was fully behind Trump this time, he was the anointed party candidate, the deals over policy and governance and cabinet positions were finalized well before these transition team "selections". That was the deal for his return to office in exchange for a chance to clean up the Trump brand, his place in history, and probably a limited hand at some well merited personal vendettas.
You will be disappointed b, a lot of people will, watch for Tulsi and JFKjr to wind up in the same basement office as Milton in Office Space. They'll probably leave by mid term, for personal reasons, quietly, to mitigate the shame of their misjudgment.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 12 2024 18:34 utc | 62
I'm with Andrew on this one. Trump was permitted to win cause he is better frontman to recruit US white folks to die for Zionists. Lot of escalation coming.
But as they say, hope dies last. Maybe Trump will bring changes. /s
Posted by: Abe | Nov 12 2024 18:40 utc | 64
"But the fact that Trump is selecting these people does not mean that he will listen to them or follow their advice. But maybe he did learn from it. I for one will try to stay objective and to give him a chance."
Not me - Trump is a grown-up spoiled child. He will make stupid and evil decisions, employ evil people and have tantrums when he is thwarted.
1st impending tantrum - Ukraine, where he has no idea of what Russia's bottom line is, and no-one around him is likely to enlighten him either, before he takes irrevocable steps - WWIII is imminent.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 12 2024 18:41 utc | 65
paddy @ 52
US job growth is almost all new government jobs!
That's what weak and faltering states do, hire to hide unemployment and assuage discontent. It wouldn't be fascism w/o a boom in govt. jobs.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 12 2024 18:45 utc | 66
Referring to Trump: "He's lazy, unimaginative"...LightYearsFromHome 62
I wish Trump critics would not just utter the first insult that came to their mind.
Trump is the energizer bunny compared to Kamala/Biden/Obama/Hillary/Cheney; that is not one of his problems quite the contrary.
"unimaginative" If only he were more realistic, again another shot so wide of the mark as to make one wonder if the the target was really aimed at.
Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 12 2024 18:47 utc | 67
No -B- sorry…
With all due respect
Anyone supporting a genocide, or suggesting we “Stand with Israel”, already filling cabinet with Zio’s and Heritage Foundation Christian right zealots & 2025ers, who brags about extrajudicial murder he committed, is not “wait & see” material.
If genocide support isn’t enough for you, let’s review history (Trumps)
Did he “lock her up”?
How‘a the wall coming along?
Swamp drained?
Lethal weapons to Ukraine, exited JCPOA, exited Open Skies Treaty, INF Treaty, sanctions on Russia ie Crimea, failure to sign Salt II, forced Venezuela President Guido on Americans, lowered interest rates, cut business taxes but allowed only “temporary” FICA cuts for the rest of us, WARP speed deathshots, bombed Syria, raised Muslim hatred to a climax with his Muslim ban, pardons “scooter Libby”, Paul Manafort, and put the worst neocon warmonger thieves in charge of the country.
Biden just picked up the trail and ran farther with the torch.
Yeah, “they” had him.
He couldn’t do a thing.
He was “naive”
“They” were out to get him from day 1.
He simply made bad “picks”
It’ll be different this time….
I “saw” 2016-2020.
And I saw enough. Hardly “waiting”.
No matter what bobble head is behind the resolute desk, trying to look and sound important, the world has moved on.
Nobody cares about Donald J Trump, his minions, his “picks”, his life. The world has moved on, America just isn’t that big of a deal anymore. If the U.S. doesn’t accept being “ignored” by other countries and insists on having its hegemonic way, then it’s WW3, which is likely anyways.
The global order and world are sick & tired of these genocidal maniacs whether is DC, UK, EU & USReal, and for the first time, will combine all the arms and aims to destroy all of the West, and will succeed.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Nov 12 2024 18:47 utc | 68
Just took in a You-Tube podcast featuring RFK Jr. His primary thrust was to go after Big Pharma, an entity even more succulating $$$ than even the WarDefense industry. Kennedy's stance on childhood medical issues, he also attributed to highly processed foods, as well as those goddamn drugs. He's also favoring remediation of massively chemically polluting agrabiz corporations and farmers who are primarily heavy machine operators and chemical warfare applicators.
Additionally, the nephew of our Agency assassinated last real American president and the assignation by the same agencies of his own father, after he had just won the California primary, which would have enabled him to win the '68 election...explained quite clearly why he joined the Trump campaign.
Thus, while I'm extremely upset over the bass-turds put in charge of foreign policy missions; like B. I will maintain my cool as RFK Jr is not alone in the circle of influence which embraced the president-elect...names like Vivek Ramaswami, Tulsi Gabbard, Tucker Carlson and that Space-X guy. If their influences prevail over the Talmudist son-in law, perhaps equaled out by the Lebanese son in law; there remain some countervails to the war-hawks whom Trump designated.
Posted by: aristodemos | Nov 12 2024 18:47 utc | 69
C'mon b, you can't trust MSM reports based on anonymous 'people familiar'.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 12 2024 17:26 utc | 20
THIS!!!
So far, thet I'm aware, only the ice maiden for chief of staff.
Until we hear trump say a name (and only very seriously when he sends for confirmation) should we worry
The rest is palying into the narrative the blob pushes
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 12 2024 18:49 utc | 70
@ 55 Tollef
I don't think b is particularly looking forward to whatever meal the US serves up.
Posted by: Ornot | Nov 12 2024 18:50 utc | 71
Thanks to b for initiating this thread.
After blunders of the past quarter century, including Trump's first term presidency, USA is in dire strait in many, many fields that matters to maintaining the superpower status of the nation. MOA barflies have been poking and jeering the limping Empire ever since I first visited this site some 10 years ago. Most of us here wish the Empire would change for the better. Eight years ago when Trump first got elected, many here voiced optimism on the ground that Trump was an "outsider". It turned out he was no different from the typical pro politician inside the Beltway. Now that he is back on a second go, I am reading too many barflies here opining that he will be different this time around--he will shack up Washington, blah blah blah.
I'm afraid most here will eat dust soon. It looks to me Trump is the old Trump, hasn't changed an iota. His vindictive jabbing of Haley/Pompeo (as Bemildred pointed out the unnecessity of such high-profile demeaning of his former colleague) shows the low-class persona he has always been. Now, his naming of hawks as candidates for his cabinet indicates he intends to continue the ass-kissing of Zionists/Rednecks/chest-pumping American idiots as American have done over the past 50 years.
The slide down the slippery slope is gonna continue for four more years, I am sure of that now.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 12 2024 18:51 utc | 72
Trump will be terrible for the Middle East, remind me who ordered Suleimani killed?
Posted by: L | Nov 12 2024 18:52 utc | 73
I was enthusiastic about Obama, then over the first three days the cabinet and secretary picks started coming in and I instantly knew I'd been punked.
MoA was 50-50 about Trump, not rah-rah but more let's give the guy a chance.
Anyone still hopeful about Trump raise your hand!
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 12 2024 18:55 utc | 74
RE: The report says the photos persuaded Trump to change his mind and he ordered the expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats."
Posted by: Peter L. | Nov 12 2024 17:59 utc | 47
Yeah, sure.
That’s what it was. A picture, presented by a well documented torture Queen that he selected. Ok.
Got it.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Nov 12 2024 18:55 utc | 75
Whatever one hears from the DS-media will always be bad news, but if he indeed DOES appoint Rubio as SOS that is at a minimum very weird.
My understanding is that there is also indications there will be a very bad Senate majority leader coming up.
So many rumors and many of them not good. We will have to await for tangible facts.
Stefanik in the UN is probably where she can so the least damage. Another neocon zionist.
I can see him and his team being blackmailed, threatened and billige in all bad ways.
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Nov 12 2024 18:56 utc | 76
Mmmmh... the Rubio appointment seems to be fake news as the NYT author is no friend of Trump... he complained about her earlier...
https://x.com/antiwarmisfit/status/1856376485822472247
Posted by: mk | Nov 12 2024 17:13 utc | 401
Posted by: mk | Nov 12 2024 17:20 utc | 15
was about to copy from the WaPo thread
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 12 2024 18:57 utc | 77
People should stop seeing Trump's pivot to hawkishness and his appointment of swamp monsters from the bowels of the Security State and former Bush administrations, not as instances of his caving or as "sabotage" but as fundamental design and intent. When the Carnival Barker engages in the bait and switch, you know that was the objective from the beginning. Trump is just a nastier, more crass and vulgar representative of the swamp. The only reason the swamp dislikes him is that even swamps have some standards.
Posted by: Chip Poirot | Nov 12 2024 18:57 utc | 78
Exile | Nov 12 2024 18:11 utc | 53--
Yes, we should all reread what Wolff had to say about the bong holders:
“For the first time, a couple of years ago, bondholders were unwilling to continue to fund the deficits of Great Britain, and [the UK government was thrown out]. Mr. Macron is now heading right down that same path. Bondholders have told the French that they are not going to continue to fund their national debt.Here’s how it works. Bondholders are telling the French, you have to rein in spending … The bondholders are saying, you have to stop running deficits. And, as every undergraduate knows, the way you would rein in deficits could be to cut spending. But there is an alternative: It’s called taxing. And it’s called taxing corporations and the rich because the others don’t have any more for you to tax – you’ve done all you can [do with taxes on ordinary French citizens].
[However] taxing corporations and the rich … somehow, is not only ‘not doable’, but not debatable. It can’t be put on the table: Nothing. (or, something so minuscule that will never deal with the deficit). We now have too much debt. And it turns out that the government, like the American government, is facing the next few years where it will have to spend as much on servicing its debt as it is on defence. And that doesn’t leave very much for everybody else. And everybody else is saying: no, no, no, no, no, no.
And now the bondholder gets worried, because one way to resolve this would be to stop paying the bond holders and that, of course, must never be. So you’ve got two absurdities. You can’t stop paying the bondholders (when, of course, you can, but with dire consequences). And you can’t tax corporations and the rich. And, of course you can. I think we are reaching a point in which these contradictions have accumulated. You don’t have to be a Hegelian or a Marxist to understand that these accumulating contradictions are very profound, very large, and very fundamental”.
And surely, some bond holders backed Trump.
I strenuously suggest reading the current Marat Khairullen essay at his substck that deals with the further deterioration of the MIC and how that's affected the USAF and its intel gathering abilities.
Most of the comments about Trump make me laugh.
Trump has become a myth for better or for worse. Trump survived and won the greatest lawfare attack on an individual in modern history. Trump mythology is justified by Trumps defense against the globalist deep state lawfare and assassination attempts.
No extant person could have done what he did. He has earned his position.
Posted by: Jerr | Nov 12 2024 19:07 utc | 82
All this pearl clutching over what Trump may or may not do. I don't see how he could be any worse than Biden.
Posted by: ian | Nov 12 2024 19:10 utc | 83
@81....that is pretty funny Karl.
Cheers Malcolm
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 12 2024 19:11 utc | 84
The deportation of America's value adding work force, the immigrants who pick the food, slaughter the herds, clean the homes, wipe the old, will have a profound effect on the economy and social society. Not only will prices rise, quality of life will fall significantly with the pogrom against the migrants from the Americas. Border checkpoints will expand beyond the frontiers all across the nation. Americans will spend a lot of time proving their citizenship and come to understand how intrusive life is in a society hunting migrants for deportation. Gualeiters abusing authority from many different bureaus will be harassing Americans everywhere. Anyone who objects will be treated very poorly and marked for future persecution. Trump's America will achieve what capital could not in middle 20th century Europe. A society of terror awaits America. The society America exported to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Chile, Argentina, etc.
Posted by: Keme | Nov 12 2024 19:12 utc | 85
Re. Killing Americans in Iraq ?
no love lost here for my countrymen who are violating their service oaths and also breaking US federal law. Those Americans getting killed in Iraq (or Syria) are common criminals, and not members of the Noble Profession of Arms
Posted by: Exile | Nov 12 2024 19:12 utc | 86
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 12 2024 17:28 utc | 24
@Norwegian,
Soleimani still is on a peace mission
"
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman yesterday demanded Israel respect Iran’s sovereignty and refrain from attacking its territory, highlighting the friendly relations between Riyadh and Tehran.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241112-saudi-crown-prince-demands-israel-not-attack-iran/"
***
Al-Baqara 154
sourate 2 verset 154 English
And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah, "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.
Posted by: La Bastille | Nov 12 2024 19:12 utc | 87
S Brennan @ 67
"unimaginative" If only he were more realistic, again another shot so wide of the mark as to make one wonder if the the target was really aimed at.
Your idea of immaginative, at least in politics, differs greatly from mine. I can't think of a more unimaginative person than Roy Cohn acolyte Trump whether in personal, economic, or political life. Only insight he ever had was to invent "Branded Living" - just what the world needed. He does have a sense of humor and a decent joie de vivre totally lacking in these times which makes him stand out if not appear to stand tall above the mediocrities you mention. A funny fascist, God help us:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfcy15ZUE2c
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 12 2024 19:12 utc | 88
C'mon guys, Trump is just the foam and froth on the surface of history. Only a figure of great depth and power could tackle the underlying contradictions impelling the whole world toward ruin. Trump has neither the wit nor wisdom to grasp them and our epoch no longer has the institutions to produce those who can. All our forms are directed against themselves in grotesque parody: 'government' serves corruption and theft, America First means Israel first, police protect criminals and hooligans against citizens, genocide is condoned while we wring our hands over whether men can play women's sport, intellectual inquiry is censored, all information is compromised, all authenticity and creativity is forestalled by AI, nothing is true, and all reality is fraudulent as this most recent phase of capitalism contorts in a death frenzy of denial, unleashing the most lethal barbarism across the world, panic-stricken as it loses the game of musical chairs. Now is the time of suffering, a new Thirty Years War, the civil war of Globalism, the Gaza-fication of everywhere. Trump is not the answer, especially if the question was never properly posed, which needed a Hegelian grasp of the dialectic besetting our unique point in time. His presidency will be yet another fiddling while all burns, and it will merely enable mates and courtiers to steal what's left that's not nailed down: helping Blackrock to own Ukraine, helping Jewish billionaires own Gaza's beaches and retirement villas for the chosen people. The best we can hope for is that the USA overreaches and suffers a crippling loss of face. But hey, if it all goes pear-shaped, just nuke the site from orbit.
Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 12 2024 19:17 utc | 89
Posted by: seer | Nov 12 2024 17:33 utc | 30
"Soleimani was on a peace mission to Saudi Arabia," Perhaps, but his corpse was in Iraq, where he'd killed Americans. If he was on a real diplomatic mission, I'd be for it, but I doubt he was."
You say this as if it was uniquely wrong to kill 'Americans' (aka US citizens).
But as long as the US Armed Forces find it OK to roam around the world, killing any one they find convenient, then it is OK to kill them back, to the maximum possible degree, to encourage them to stop and think what and why they are doing this.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 12 2024 19:19 utc | 90
"Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off" - Recep Tayyip Erdogan
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 12 2024 19:20 utc | 91
What metric should be devised to assess Trump's presidency? The Outlaw US Empire continues to decline as it's genuine Depression accelerates for the 90%, while the bond holders fondle their rosary beads--they don't need to worry as the R-controlled Congress will never impose the levels of taxation required to dent the deficit. If Trump institutes his Tariff policy, inflation will rage and that will provide cover for the Oil Oligopoly to raise gasoline prices that are now just under $3/gal here in Oregon with today's national average being a dime higher. And then there's the inflation that never gets included in COLA figuring--housing costs--which will also continue to climb thanks to the tariffs and illegal sanctions.
We can already conclude that Trump's term will be a big win for the top 10% and a big loss for the 90%, yet the 90% will be left to wonder why when the answer is already obvious--the 10% demands it. And those results will provide the basis for what ought to be a very volatile 2028 election year. And note this prognostication omits foreign policy aside from trade policy.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 12 2024 19:00 utc | 80
as a bong holder myself I concur lol
Thank you very much for the link to the essay
just amazing to hear how close to the brink of toppling the Hegemon really is
Scathing article on US war machine
Posted by: ld | Nov 12 2024 19:26 utc | 94
If he actually selects Alex Jones for press secretary, I don't think either one of them could avoid attempts at their lives, as sophisticated as the corrupt crumbling empire can still manage.
Posted by: NJH | Nov 12 2024 19:28 utc | 95
Copy & Paste from Palestine thread
„On CNN, Marco Rubio responded to a question from Jake Tapper about civilian casualties in Gaza by saying, “I don’t think there’s any way Israel can be expected to coexist or find some diplomatic off-ramp with these savages…. They have to be eradicated. And you pointed out the very difficult challenge. This is going to be incredibly painful. This is going to be incredibly difficult. And it’s going to be horrifying, the price to pay.” “
Posted by: NoName | Nov 12 2024 11:40 utc | 146
The Rubio CNN quote is from October 2023. It is inhumane and chilling. [JB]
".. savages…. They have to be eradicated." Wonder who is Rubio's AIPAC handler?
Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 12 2024 19:30 utc | 96
Very hopeful report, Newbie 77
As I said on Andrei's board:
"it's odd & rare to see a President-elect place a man in high office, when this man has previously sought to replace him, when this very same man has previously said that the President-elect is unworthy of office..any office...when this man will only be two heartbeats from usurping the President-elect...by law.
And it is odd, that a known Langley mouthpiece, is the first to announce such an remarkable occurrence....I hope Don jr is looking out for his father and can stop this train from leaving the station. Say it ain't so Joe."
Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 12 2024 19:33 utc | 97
Prior to the election I had reservations about Trump but I knew Harris would be terrible since we had a clear view of the previous 4 years. I still think voting in Trump was worth the risk. Assuming that nuclear war is avoided, the worst case is that Trump further hastens the decline of DC's power.
Posted by: Chris N | Nov 12 2024 19:38 utc | 98
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 12 2024 19:20 utc | 90
"Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off" - Recep Tayyip Erdogan"
Erdogan is wrong there. Democracy is more like a stage set with actors, where you convince the audience that they are seeing exactly the exciting and distracting first class play that they were expecting, and most of the critics agree.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 12 2024 19:43 utc | 99
Various sentiments and opinions or snippets thereof I find myself agreeing with here. And however you look at Trump, it is important to understand that phenomenon which bears his name is a symptom and not a cause. A symptom of imperial decline and the ravages of 3 decades of neoliberal economics and 2+ decades of neoconservative foreign policy. He's merely the tip of a much bigger iceberg.
I will note that I haven't seen Hook's name discussed yet and I was under the impression that his appointment was a done deal. If not, no other names have been floated in legacy or dissident media.
If Rubio ends up in the administration, I feel most sorry for the people of Cuba and Venezuela. Cuba is in bad shape as the ratchet of successive Obama-Trump-Biden regimes and the ongoing blockade has tightened. Venezuela pretty much the same. And it would make perfect sense for the Trump regime to pick up where he left off (and again, at the setting of the ratchet left for him by Biden's regime) in the project to once and for all subjugate the remaining true socialist governments of the Western Hemisphere in "America's backyard" - ya' know, the Monroe Doctrine. Perfect because of the sorry state of the Empire's military due to the aforementioned years of useless wars on "terror" against non-peer enemies who still managed to send Uncle Scam home with his tail between his legs more often than not; or to settle for an uneasy stalemate and illegal minor occupation or two. If the talk about Russia, Iran and China hawks is true, I could be wrong, but if I had to guess the incoming Trump administration will see Cuba and Venezuela as easy and soft targets, up to and including covert actions (coups) or military interventions. I doubt either country is in a place that they could mount a years-long guerilla resistance after several combined decades of being illegally cut off from a good deal of international trade and relations by the Yankee bully on the block.
Bad times ahead for the only guys in this hemisphere still clinging to what the rapacious FIRE and extractive sector capitalist owned pigs in D.C. know as "the threat of a good example."
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 12 2024 19:44 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
I think Trump learned early in his first term that if he tries to go against the MIC (talk of peace with North Korea and Syria), he will be spanked back into line.
I don't see any reason to expect differently, so nothing Trump will do in his second term will go against the wishes of the hawks.
Trump is and always has been a bully, and bullies give in to stronger bullies.
Posted by: Jim Phillips | Nov 12 2024 16:46 utc | 1