News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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October 20, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-251
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Hopefully not long to go. t the latest the American election, and this war is over I guess.
The Europeans will look like fools.
Posted by: g wiltek | Oct 20 2024 12:55 utc | 1
Mission Impossible: Ukraine Would Have to Beat Corruption to Even Have a Shot at NATO Membership
Ukraine’s desperate efforts to become a NATO member may have been all for naught as Kiev now faces a new insurmountable obstacle on its way to the coveted place in the US-led military bloc.
Having announced this week that NATO members have to agree on the criteria for Ukraine’s possible admission, Dutch Minister of Defense Ruben Brekelmans mentioned one such potential criteria – a criteria Kiev is very unlikely to meet.
Brekelmans suggested that Ukraine should make progress in fighting corruption – something that has long become synonymous with the powers that be in Kiev.
One need look no farther than to the Kiev’s war machine as Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense got embroiled in a number of corruption scandals.
Last year, the ministry was busted procuring food, fuel and even winter clothing for troops for inflated prices: for example, the ministry paid about $2.17 for a liter of diesel and around $0.46 for a single egg.
In January, Ukrainian authorities announced that an arms company was caught attempting to embezzle about $40 million slated for the purchase of some 100,000 mortar shells.
Much of the Western military supplies for Ukraine, which have been flowing steadily to Kiev since 2022, have also ended up in the hands of Ukrainian black market dealers, including small arms, anti-tank missiles and even loitering munitions a.k.a. kamikaze drones.
As the forcible draft of Ukrainian men, which quickly devolved into veritable press-ganging, intensified, many Ukrainians turned to bribing army and medical officials to be exempt from the measure.
Nearly $6 million in cash was discovered earlier this month by Ukrainian security officers who raided the residence of one of Ukraine’s regional medical commission accused of facilitating draft dodging in exchange for bribes.
Other sectors of the Ukrainian state do not fare any better.
Ukraine’s state-owned electricity transmission system operator Ukrenergo in 2023 approved over 60 tender-free contracts, $1.6 million each, for the installation of protective structures on transformers.
The deadline for the completion of these contracts was pushed back on multiple occasions all the way to June 2024, yet none of them were completed as of September when the then-Ukrenergo chief was finally sacked.
In April, an illegal scheme to obtain state-owned land worth over $7 million was uncovered by Ukrainian authorities, with the suspect being none other than then-minister of agriculture.
With all of those instances in mind, one can only wonder how Ukraine could even begin to tackle the rampant corruption in the foreseeable future.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 12:57 utc | 2
Hypothetical, or maybe not so (any more)..
It appears that the EU is taking over a larger share of the war financing.
The European population is more servile and it’s leadership at the top now appearing MORE hawkish than both alternatives in USA.
Is it possible to envision a new era, where the EU is doing abdolutely most of the funding? They could simply purchase arms from Korea and America as before, while increasing their budgeting substantially.
Speaking from Norway, I could totally see that happening here. There is literally NO political opposition to it here. I can se many other nations think the same..
Thoughts?
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Oct 20 2024 13:31 utc | 3
Thoughts?
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Oct 20 2024 13:31 utc | 3
It looks to me like the US military (and even some Biden people) have drank a bitter cup of realpolitik, and looking for a way to disengage from this quagmire. A military that once fancied it could fight three wars at once, is now finding that it can’t even fight one war, while hotspots flare up here there and everywhere. Europe meanwhile has doubled down on the delusion. They fancy themselves able to stand up a Ukraine dead man walking and take it to the Ruskies. Their leaders make empty threats to the sky like barking poodles. In the back of their little minds they still believe that when the poop hits the fan’s spinning blades, big brother US will step in and save the day. I don’t think the Ukraine project will end well for Europe. If Russia ever does bring Ukraine to a surrender, and take control of the corridor to Odessa, I expect many European nations will be falling all over themselves to make nice with Russia.
Posted by: Mike R | Oct 20 2024 14:01 utc | 4
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 12:57 utc | 2
.
.
.
.On corruption and bribery in Ukraine
Just like Ukraine, the whole of Russia and the Soviet Union was corrupt and corruptible.
Not only in the civilian sector, but also or especially in the military.
Particularly during Yeltsin’s time, but also under Gorbachev, especially under him!
I WAS in Russia, all over Russia, for about 12 years for work at the time.
Why do I say that?
For years, Putin was only concerned with removing corrupt officials and officers. The SMO broke the necks of the last ones in the general staff because their incompetence came to light. They mostly became officers in higher positions through party membership and cronyism.
In the GDR, for example, Russian soldiers were hired as workers in exchange for pallets of beer
Posted by: ossi | Oct 20 2024 14:02 utc | 5
yup Rutte must make an impression on his new found colleagues in Nato…must prove himself as head of this mafiaso.Determined to round up scalliwags who are becomning more reticent and fearful of I would consider attempts to extend in to 2015….post Jan new President? Manipulate the election to continue the russophobia?
Macron seems to be attempting again seizing the moment now he has a buddy to boost up his vacilations.. offering Miage planes in his delusional mirage and reflection in his mirror of vanity.USA gives 20b to help out and assist the poor suffering EU struggling with its part 30b of the 50b “due” from Russian stolen 300b….to be treated as loans of course which can never be payed back. Detemined to get round the Slovak and Hungary potential blockage of full EU funding and north europe countries continuing to find what they can.
IMF given or loaned its latest 1.2 b for non military purposes- presuming that everything is perhaps traceable in the most currupt country in Europe.Germany last week although says it is finished is still sending the remains of its previously agreed budget to Ukraine and remainder of agreed military equipment .
Posted by: Jo | Oct 20 2024 14:03 utc | 6
The Europeans will look like fools.
Posted by: g wiltek | Oct 20 2024 12:55 utc | 1
They already look like fools, and now they’re getting left holding the flaming bag of dogshit.
Financing the war? With what?? UK economy already in recession, Germany nearly there and deindustrializing, and everyone in possession of “Potemkin” militaries whose weapons have already proven insufficient to the task and not available in sufficient numbers to even defend themselves. Building more? LOL. Buying more?? LMAO. The cupboards are bare at the Collective West’s arms marketplace, although they’ll gladly let you pay today for delivery three years from tomorrow. The only countries with massive, efficient arms production capacities are China, Russia, Iran & North Korea.
This is the swan song of the EU and NATO.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 14:16 utc | 7
@ TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 14:16 utc | 7
Taiwan has handed over 10’s of Billions$, going back years … everything is on back-order … still undelivered … suckers or complicit in the grift.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 12:57 utc | 2
The reality of Ukraine means absolutely nothing.
If they really want Ukraine in NATO they will simply tell that everything is OK, a few scapegoats will be served to public opinion and that would be it.
Note that in Msm there is no report of corruption in Ukraine, no report of the disaster of the economic situation, no news about the complitely not democratic government and so on.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 20 2024 14:29 utc | 9
Taiwan has handed over 10’s of Billions$, going back years …
Posted by: Outraged | Oct 20 2024 14:26 utc | 8
Circle-jerk just like Ukraine and especially Israel… mostly US foreign aid specifically targeted to benefit the US MIC.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 14:31 utc | 10
I don’t disagree with the reality that EU is close to broke,but at the same time,there is still a possibility to do more (damage).
The continuation of arms and warmongering could be further done on the backs of the European people, even if that lowers standards of living further. Likewise, the financialization could still go on, even if currency devaluations may eventually ensue.
Here in Norway, for example, there is almost an unreal level of denial and propaganda of realities and nobody ever “doubts” for a second that Ukraine will win and the West is cruising towards further hegemony.
The information war is so strong that there is rarely a glimmer of different information.
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Oct 20 2024 14:33 utc | 11
The reality of Ukraine means absolutely nothing.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 20 2024 14:29 utc | 9
Agreed, if they wanted them in they’d be in.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 14:34 utc | 12
IMO NATO doesn’t want the Ukraine as a member, but they want to force Russia to conquer the entire territory instead of reaching a peace deal. Why would they want this? Here are three reasons:
-To kill as many Russians as possible, both real Russians and Ukrainian “potential Russians”
-To keep the war going as long as possible, increasing profits for the companies that make the weapons
-If Russia conquers the whole territory, then the “Russian threat” will be closer to the heart of Europe than before the war. This is good thing (for NATO) because it allows them to crank up the fear propaganda, justifying their high salaries and distracting the public from Europe’s overall decline.
Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Oct 20 2024 14:48 utc | 13
The continuation of arms and warmongering could be further done on the backs of the European people, even if that lowers standards of living further.
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Oct 20 2024 14:33 utc | 11
Yes, of course, but it’s already into token territory and they have no means of changing that, so at this point it’s all for show and will have little to no real effect on the ground. They’ve lost, they know they’ve lost, but they’re desperately trying to convince everyone that they haven’t… and, as you note, there’s still a ton of gullible citizens out there.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 14:49 utc | 14
IMO NATO doesn’t want the Ukraine as a member, but they want to force Russia to conquer the entire territory instead of reaching a peace deal. Why would they want this? Here are three reasons:
Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Oct 20 2024 14:48 utc | 13
All good points, but I’d argue they’re just desperately trying to contain the damage to Ukraine & Ukrainians.
Should Russia go “all the way” and stop then it would simply give lie to the idea they’re expansionist. Additionally, all the western “investment” would be lost, and all kinds of embarrassing dirty laundry would be aired. NATO’s only halfway successful campaign has been narrative management and that would not survive.
Last but not least, Russia would immediately launch their own “Marshall Plan”. Within weeks Ukrainians would be praising Russia, and within months they’ll be universally calling for Z’s extradition and head on a stick. Look at Crimea, or even Mariupol, after Russia took control. The last 10 years have seen huge sums of money laundered through Kiev with little benefit to the most of the country.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 15:06 utc | 15
” -To kill as many Russians as possible, both real Russians and Ukrainian “potential Russians”
-To keep the war going as long as possible, increasing profits for the companies that make the weapons
-If Russia conquers the whole territory, then the “Russian threat” will be closer to the heart of Europe than before the war. This is good thing (for NATO) because it allows them to crank up the fear propaganda, justifying their high salaries and distracting the public from Europe’s overall decline.
Posted by: Donbass Lives Matter | Oct 20 2024 14:48 utc | 13 ”
How does your theory deal with the billions. possibly, trillions oF land and resources purchases made by Black-Rock and others ? Why would those powerful entities want Russia to capture all OF Ukraine ?
Posted by: Moonie | Oct 20 2024 15:45 utc | 16
Thoughts?
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Oct 20 2024 13:31 utc | 3
my thoughts are just that i am glad that my family and most importantly my children are leaving the fascist cesspool of nazism that is the current eu. (and highly likely the future one aswell)
let the politicians that led germany and the rest of the eu fight it out with their own blood and genes, they wont get any of mine to support their delusional ambitions of whateverthefuck they want to achieve.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Oct 20 2024 15:54 utc | 17
Europeans already accept tge lowering of their living standard in exchange for prolonging the war in Ukraine. This war is psychologically much more attractive for them then even computer games. Destroying Russia must be an old atavism they keep very deep inside.
Specially, young and educated Europeans really love this war.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 16:00 utc | 18
Their leaders make empty threats to the sky like barking poodles. In the back of their little minds they still believe that when the poop hits the fan’s spinning blades, big brother US will step in and save the day. I don’t think the Ukraine project will end well for Europe. If Russia ever does bring Ukraine to a surrender, and take control of the corridor to Odessa, I expect many European nations will be falling all over themselves to make nice with Russia.
Posted by: Mike R | Oct 20 2024 14:01 utc | 4
The barking poodles will soon have their collwctive noses shoved in their own shit.
Reality wasn’t nver let enter the discussions and here things stand.
Hundreds of thousands dead and how many maimed.
The reprocessing for Europe post cessation are going to be very grim.
And the poodles won’t give a shyte.
Posted by: jpc | Oct 20 2024 16:31 utc | 19
Zelensky’s Kursk adventure has done its job, the reserves of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been wasted, and we are losing more and more territory with each passing month.
The Russian Armed Forces are not weakening their pressure on the contact line and are moving forward.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces are losing ground, clinging to settlements on the hills. However, the Russian army is taking over one city after another – Ugledar recently fell, and the Russian Armed Forces have advanced to Pokrovsk. And this city with a pre-war population of 80,000 people served as a key logistics and transport hub for Ukrainian military operations in eastern Ukraine. Pokrovsk is also the gateway to conquering the rest of the Donetsk region.
At the same time, the advance of the Russian Armed Forces on the front is a record; over the past two months, Russian troops have occupied 5.5 times more territory than in the entire last year. If in the first half of this year the Russian Armed Forces managed to capture a maximum of 200 square kilometers per month, then in August it was already 351, and in September — 468 square kilometers.
As military experts note, the main reasons for such large territorial losses are the shortage of weapons of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and changes in the tactics of the Russian Armed Forces.
The fact remains — Ukrainian fortified areas began to fall faster and faster. If in Bakhmut they fought for every house, then Ugledar after the start of a serious operation fell apart in literally a month, although the balance of forces and means was comparable. Experts predict that Toretsk, Selidovo, Pokrovsk and Kurakhovo are essentially doomed by the “Kursk adventure”.
The same applies to the Kherson and Zaporizhia regions. That is why the West seriously started talking about “territories in exchange for peace”, which will kill the Ze-team.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/24680
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2024 16:32 utc | 20
@ vargas | Oct 20 2024 16:00 utc | 18
if you look at it like a class war, the ones who want to destroy russia are all in the elite upper class, wanting to rape and pillage the vast country called russia… if the lower classes follow along in this stupidity, they are doomed.. i don’t know what marx would say, but that is what james says..
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 16:43 utc | 21
In the Kurakhovsk-Pokrovsk direction, the Russian army has effectively taken the village of Zvezdnoye on the approaches to Kurakhovka (northeast of Kurakhovo) and advanced in Gornyak.
In the city of Gornyak, the Russian Armed Forces have advanced in the northern areas. They continue to move into the depths of the settlement with the goal of completely occupying it.
Gornyak and Kurakhovka are key settlements for cutting off the Ukrainian “pocket” to the east of Kurakhovo.
https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21280
In the Kupyansk direction, Russian troops have again entered Kruglyakovka near Kupyansk, having taken full control of it, which the GUR had previously announced.
A Ukrainian serviceman with the call sign “Shadow” writes about this: “The enemy attempted to split our groups into two parts. Mechanized columns with tanks and infantry fighting vehicles rolled onto the settlement of Kruglyakovka… The enemy managed to enter the settlement and the edge of the forest in a quantity of up to a platoon. At the moment, our guys are driving the enemy out of their positions.”
According to him, yesterday alone there were three mechanized assaults on Kruglyakovka.
Control over the village allows the Russian Federation to cut the Ukrainian group on the left bank of the Oskol River and establish control over an important logistics route for the Ukrainian Armed Forces across the river to the south of Kupyansk.
According to our information, the Russian Armed Forces have expanded control in Kruglyakovka, practically reaching the left bank of the Oskol River through the northern half of the village and are advancing toward the center of the settlement. And further north, the Russian assault groups were able to push through the Ukrainian defense and recently consolidated their positions on the southeastern outskirts of Kolesnikovka.
In addition, further north, Russian units advanced into the forest west of Sin’kovka. Advancing from Sin’kovka, the Russian Armed Forces units broke through the Ukrainian defense and started fighting in the northern part of Petrovpavlovka.
https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21281
In the Pokrovsky direction, the Russian Armed Forces captured the enrichment plant in Selidovo.
Russian units are storming Selidovo, having secured a foothold on the eastern streets of the city. The Russian army has also achieved success in the southern outreach of the city, with individual units penetrating the outermost houses of the settlement of Vishnevoye from the side of the railway.
https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21283
In the Pokrovsk direction, Russian units entered Vozdvizhenka. It is likely that Russian troops plan to take the settlement and then move northwest and cut off the Pokrovsk-Konstantinovka-Bakhmut highway.
https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21285
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2024 16:43 utc | 22
French Armed Forces Minister Sebastien Lecornu reportedly said that France would transfer new weapons to Ukraine, including 12 newly produced CAESAR 155mm/52 self-propelled howitzers .
“12 new CAESAR guns that will be delivered to Ukraine, as well as 155mm shells, Aster missiles, AASM guided bombs, missile launchers and Mistral missiles…” Sebastien Lecornu said in an interview with the weekly Tribune Dimanche.
According to the minister, the financing of these deliveries was made possible by France “collecting” 300 million euros in interest on frozen Russian assets in European banks, as agreed in June of this year by the leaders of the EU, the United States and Japan at the G7 meeting. Lecornu recalled that about 60 CAESAR self-propelled howitzers have already been transferred to Ukraine and about 80 will be delivered to the Armed Forces of Ukraine at the end of 2024.
Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2024 16:48 utc | 23
if you look at it like a class war, the ones who want to destroy russia are all in the elite upper class, wanting to rape and pillage the vast country called russia… if the lower classes follow along in this stupidity, they are doomed.. i don’t know what marx would say, but that is what james says..
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 16:43 utc | 21
Sheep get sheared, yep.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 20 2024 16:48 utc | 24
More steamrolling from BarMapping:
https://youtu.be/tonKoM1-xS0
Posted by: blueswede | Oct 20 2024 17:06 utc | 25
The USA doesn’t want Ukraine to join NATO because the USA would then be obligated to defend Ukraine against Russia. By defend I mean US boots on the ground and US aircraft in the air. If they allow Ukraine in they’ve painted themselves into a geopolitical corner.
The USA would be in the position of going to war with Russia due to the actions of some NAZI death cult in Ukraine or watching NATO self destruct. A country like Estonia can decide to sit out an article 5 call to arms and no one cares but if the USA sits out an article 5 call that’s the end of NATO.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 20 2024 17:12 utc | 26
Berlin and Ankara are making efforts to explore how to end the conflict in Ukraine, Scholz said.
The German chancellor said Berlin and Ankara were making efforts to explore how to end the conflict in Ukraine, he said at a joint press conference with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
But at the same time, we are making efforts to study how we can ensure that this war does not continue any further,
— he said.
At the same time, Scholz noted that Berlin and Ankara are allegedly “united in the opinion that NATO should act very decisively and unanimously” in light of the conflict in Ukraine.
Slavyangrad
Germany and others via G7 also dpung what tey can to strengthen Ukr air defences….Nato to act decisively means what exactly……
Posted by: Jo | Oct 20 2024 17:15 utc | 27
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 15:06 utc | 15
.
.
.
You forgot one thing in the list.
Saving face
How to sell defeat as victory?
And that is vital for the West and NATO
Screw investments…Blackrock would throw trillions down the drain and possibly bring the stock market down if the whole of Ukraine were gone…
But NATO/USA losing face would be the END
Posted by: ossi | Oct 20 2024 17:17 utc | 28
the latest the American election, and this war is over I guess.
Posted by: g wiltek | Oct 20 2024 12:55 utc | 1
It’s impossible. The first and last attempt to reach an agreement was made in December 2021. After the disruption of this opportunity, there was not even a hint of peace treaties. Istanbul and Minsk don’t matter. You understand that Ukraine is not a party to the conflict, but a territory and people who are used in military operations.
Posted by: AndrVU | Oct 20 2024 17:38 utc | 29
Thoughts?
I believe I read a year or so ago that Washington was tasking NATO to take over the support of the Ukrainian conflict and the Europeans obliged, as good boys do. However the Europeans are not totally in charge. The US MIC provides the weapons and Washington is still in control of how those weapons are to be used. The satellites are mostly US operated.
That distribution of power makes Europe a quite ineffective supporter of the Ukrainian campaign whatever amount of cash they inject in Kiev.
On the other hand Bankova is very active attending a continuous stream of meetings in the US and Europe directing many countries to contribute endlessly to Kiev actions. The GUR is now operating units in Africa and directing some of the weapons Kiev receives from the West to Africa (recent posts on TG). Bankova, in the event Kiev becomes part of NATO, will be already in a leadership position within NATO. A group of neo-nazis controling NATO is not a perspective to take lightly when seen on the backdrop of what Washington is supporting in Gaza. We are not there yet hopefully.
Posted by: Richard L | Oct 20 2024 17:38 utc | 30
Ukraine Weekly Update, 18th October 2024: May be Useful to Some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-ffc
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Oct 20 2024 17:42 utc | 31
You forgot one thing in the list….
NATO/USA losing face would be the END
Posted by: ossi | Oct 20 2024 17:17 utc | 28
That’s, IMHO, the most difficult task for the Russian Federation. How to give such an odious opponent a way for such “face saving”.
And it is worth adding that such face-saving is important for both sides in a conflict. It’s a factor in preventing the continuation of the war.
The failure of the Western/NATO regimes to look at things from the Russian point of view is a large factor in how we got to the current situation: the failure to acknowledge or even accept that Russia has legitimate security interests; the endless expansion of a belligerent military alliance masquerading as a peaceful one; five centuries of pillage, rent-seeking, colonialism, imperialism and now the hyper-imperialism of neo-liberalism; the dis-organization and sheer vandalism of international affairs by the application of (illegal) extra-territorial sanctions; the theft of state assets (even the Nazi regime did not face such theft by, e.g. the Bank of England or the US Treasury) and the acceleration of the fragmentation of international financial affairs by such actions; the use of terrorism as state policy by NATO regimes as an alternative to direct “hot” war as these regimes, hollowed out by the de-industrialisation of neo-liberalism, can no longer conduct directly such wars; and on and on and on.
ha ha. When you make such a list then it seems that traditional conflict-resolution ideas such as face-saving are just completely inapplicable.
They have made their bed and now they have to lie in it. What a fall is coming.
Posted by: NH | Oct 20 2024 17:57 utc | 32
Russia and the Russian people are the last hope for the preservation of European culture. May God protect them.
Posted by: Klaus | Oct 20 2024 18:02 utc | 33
There has always been a way in Russia’s willingness to quickly end the war against NATO and the West,
cut off all supplies of gas, oil, uranium, iron, aluminum, fertilizers, rare metals and everything needed by the Western war machine,
this has not been done and indeed we see that in some sectors Russia continues to develop collaborative relationships.
and in my humble opinion it’s all a comedy for use and consumption by the masses of sheep who take sides both on one side and the other,
It matters little that men die.
Posted by: A.cagliostro | Oct 20 2024 18:15 utc | 34
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 16:43 utc | 21
I think that modern individual is a reduced man not an one dimensional man, as H. Marcuse wrote about, but a zero dimensional man. A point thus. He/she cannot move and does not want to move from this social singularity. He is entertained, advertised and fed to some extent. He has loans to pay off, he dreams what he was told to dream. He adores Hollywood.
He lost any element of the common/national culture. He/she feels no connection with the community where he/she lives. Even the family ties are distorted in name of “freedom”.
Such person cannot revolt. That is unimaginable. And that is the younger generation in Europe, specially those who has grown up with smartphone.
This is in fact not limited to Europe, but in the places like China, Russia or Iran, the older, more life oriented culture still exists and has the power to limit the wishes of the young consumers, the young agents of capital. Only violence, only immense fear can defeat young consumers.
Capital cannot be defeated by democratic means. It has to be crushed.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 18:24 utc | 35
Russia and the Russian people are the last hope for the preservation of European culture. May God protect them.
Posted by: Klaus | Oct 20 2024 18:02 utc | 33
I agree.
Yes, Russia and Russian people, not Putin and his oligarchs.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 18:26 utc | 36
The Telegraph: Ukrainian drones targeted a crucial Russian arms factory more than 500 miles from the border. The state-owned Sverdlov plant is one of the largest manufacturers of explosives used by Russian forces in the war.
These long range missiles are clearly already there.
Nobody respects Putin’s red lines
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 18:36 utc | 37
“Specially, young and educated Europeans really love this war.”
Maybe they could be kidnapped into fighting it.
Posted by: Fred777 | Oct 20 2024 18:36 utc | 38
i don’t know what marx would say, but that is what james says..
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 16:43 utc | 21
jamesism? lol
Posted by: waynorinorway | Oct 20 2024 18:37 utc | 39
Posted by: Mario | Oct 20 2024 14:29 utc | 9
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 14:34 utc | 12
Highly likely that the topic of Ukrainian corruption is being used as a convenient camouflage to hide the lack of unanimity in NATO about potential Ukraine membership.
A minor curiosity: former Dutch PM Rutte takes over the NATO hot seat, yet the issue of corruption is raised by the Dutch Defence Minister in the Sputnik article linked earlier.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 18:51 utc | 40
if you look at it like a class war, the ones who want to destroy russia are all in the elite upper class, wanting to rape and pillage the vast country called russia… if the lower classes follow along in this stupidity, they are doomed.. i don’t know what marx would say, but that is what james says..
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 16:43 utc | 21
Certainly the case in the UK. Are there any pro-Ukraine demos ? No. Are there any anti-Russian demos ? No.
You still find the occasional apologist for pointless war in local media comment sections, but these aren’t so much pro-Ukraine as rabid Russophobes, who haven’t realised the cold war ended decades ago.
Contrast with the pro-Palestine (and by definition anti-Zionist) rallies with 300,000 on the streets – and continuing crackdowns by the Esthablishment.
It is, as you say, an Elite’s war – whether Starmer or Johnson, they never see a neo-nazi or zionist regime they didn’t like.
Plenty of pro-Hitler support amongst the British Esthablishment in the 1930s. They might have kept their mouths shut when opinion turned against them, but do we think they changed their views ? Not much.
Posted by: Red Star | Oct 20 2024 18:56 utc | 41
Red Star | Oct 20 2024 18:56 utc | 41
Pro-Hitler Brit establishment figures are long dead. Munich Agreement was 86 years ago last month.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 20 2024 18:59 utc | 42
Watching the stupid Slavs slaughter each other by the 100K’s is hilarious!!!
Posted by: Sam Rosen | Oct 20 2024 19:03 utc | 43
What to make of senator Rogozin’s remarks, should we take him to be insufficiently pro-Russian, or is it long overdue to recognise excuse mongers as patronage whores and fifth columnists?
… (Rogozin) previously served as director general of Roscosmos from 2018 to July 2022, as deputy prime minister in charge of the defense industry from 2011 to 2018, and as Russia’s ambassador to NATO from 2008 to 2011. …
https://t.me/ASWman/30624
Forwarded from HEDGEHOG
The Black Sea Fleet has been redeployed from Sevastopol to Feodosia and Novorossiysk due to the unmanned boats of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, said Dmitry Rogozin, a senator from the Zaporizhia region. “It [the Black Sea Fleet] was forced to change, in fact, its registration, due to the fact that our large ships simply became large targets for the enemy’s unmanned boats,” Rogozin said. He called on “everyone to respond more quickly to new threats” and called Russia’s military system “sluggish.” “You can’t put non-standard machine guns on the deck, you can’t use non-standard electronic warfare systems, and so on,” the senator explained. @ejdailyru
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia’s Black Sea Fleet has been forced to move many warships from the naval base of Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsular, which Russia annexed in 2014, due to attacks by Ukraine, a Russian-installed official was quoted as saying on Sunday.
The remarks by Dmitry Rogozin, a Russian-installed senator for the Russian-controlled Zaporizhzhia region and a former head of Russia’s space agency, are the first Russian official confirmation that the fleet has had to move from Sevastopol.
Ukraine has repeatedly said its attacks on Russian warships in the Black Sea have forced Moscow to move ships to Novorossiisk.
Rogozin told the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper that Russia needed to get more serious about its drone development, the organisation of its military drone units and the development of electronic warfare and satellite positioning systems.
“A military-technical revolution is taking place before our very eyes,” Rogozin said of the development of drones and electronic warfare, adding that the pace of innovation was changing the situation at the front every month.
“The Black Sea Fleet is an illustrative example,” Rogozin was quoted as saying. “It was forced to change, basically, its residence due to the fact that our large ships became just big targets for unmanned enemy boats.”
Russia had been behind on drone technology at the start of the 2022 war, and although it has since made significant advances, it needed to move faster, particularly in the focus of its weapons spending and the creation of special drone regiments, Rogozin said.
He said satellite and surface guidance systems that could overcome electronic warfare were of particular importance to allow accurate targetting.
Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2024 19:16 utc | 44
And the grift keeps on going…
More than 11 million UAH of pensions for a year: 39 more Ukrainian prosecutors who receive payments for disability were found
At least 14 current heads of regional prosecutor’s offices and 25 of their deputies receive disability pensions. In just one year, the prosecutor’s top officials, whose average age is 45 years, received UAH 11 million in payments.
This is reported by RegioNews with reference to the Ukrainian public organization Anti-Corruption Center.
“Denis Selin from public control went further and found that 14 (!) acting heads of regional prosecutor ‘s offices receive pensions. We dug even deeper and analyzed the deputy heads of regional prosecutor’s offices. As a result, we found 25 more prosecutors who receive pensions. In particular, in the Kharkiv and Sumy regions, all the prosecutor’s top officials receive pensions. Since the average age of these figures is 45 years, it is most likely that these payments are made for (fake?) disability, not seniority. Only these four dozen heads of prosecutor’s offices received more than UAH 11 million in pensions last year, ” the report says.
Probably, all the prosecutors received this money without any delay. At the same time, Ukrainian soldiers with injuries cannot receive their payments for months, which are significantly less than prosecutor’s pensions.
The Anti-Corruption Center states that this is only the “tip of the iceberg”. It is noted that among the heap of heads of various departments and departments, judges, police, and the State Bureau of Investigation, the phenomenon of “payments for fake disability”is also common.
” Therefore, it is not surprising that the leaders of the Iuecs have become dollar millionaires. Because many of those who are supposed to control their activities have used the services of MSEC themselves, ” the Anti-Corruption Center is convinced.
We will remind, earlier the journalist Yury Butusov published information that 49 prosecutors of Khmelnitsky region headed by the regional prosecutor Oleksiy Oleynik registered disability , “protecting” the corruption scheme of the scandalous head of MSEK Tatyana Krupa. In particular, the journalist described the criminal scheme used and gave a list of the names of all the prosecutors .
The Prosecutor General’s Office announced that it will conduct an internal investigation into the disability of 50 prosecutors of the Khmelnitsky Regional Prosecutor’s Office.
The head of the Khmelnitsky regional Prosecutor ‘s office, Oleksiy Oleynik, was dismissed from his post amid a scandal with the disability of his subordinates. He wrote a letter of resignation at his own request.
https://regionews.ua/ukr/news/ukraine/1729431784-ponad-11-mln-grn-pensiy-za-rik-viyavili-shche-39-ukrayinskih-prokuroriv-yaki-otrimuyut-viplati-za-invalidnist via translation add-on.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 19:26 utc | 45
@ TJandTheBear | Oct 20 2024 14:31 utc | 10
The final previous (June?), $60Billion ? Only $12B went to Ukraine, suspect probably half that went straight back without stopping, or never sent. Last PDA was only $168M(IIRC). Chump-change. Meaningless.
@ waynorinorway | Oct 20 2024 18:37 utc | 39
lol. Relocating to Jamestown ? I’ll get my coat …
@ Sam Rosen | Oct 20 2024 19:03 utc | 43
So close, borderline to win this threads award …
The USA doesn’t want Ukraine to join NATO because the USA would then be obligated to defend Ukraine against Russia.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 20 2024 17:12 utc | 26
There is no “obligation” for anyone. Art 5 is optional and each member does what it wants. Nato won’t dissolve no matter what happens to Poland or any other next kamikaze. The Ukr war does not stop simply because it does not hurt US, UK, FR in absolutely any way and Russia is unable to force a military solution even for Donbass or Kursk, and that against a low level proxy army of amateurs. The sad smo is still going towards a surrender called Minsk 3, with no damage done to future Nato side of Ukr and very few sent to frontline from there. No one even cares
Posted by: rk | Oct 20 2024 19:53 utc | 47
Watching the stupid Slavs slaughter each other by the 100K’s is hilarious!!!
Posted by: Sam Rosen | Oct 20 2024 19:03 utc | 43
I too love the same thing only its the American Civil War does it for me when stupid fucking yanks were killing each other by the thousands to free the Black Man . Boy that sure came back to bite ’em on the ass hey?
Now that’s stupid.
Posted by: Bearish Panda | Oct 20 2024 19:53 utc | 48
Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2024 19:16 utc | 44
Just a FYI, the full dialogue has been posted by @Larch445 over at Andrei Martyanov’s blog.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 19:53 utc | 49
Watching the stupid Slavs slaughter each other by the 100K’s is hilarious!!!
Posted by: Sam Rosen | Oct 20 2024 19:03 utc | 43
—
The truth is that on this point the Zionists are right
The grandchildren of the Polish Ukrainian Yiddish people (1) despise the Slavs, (2) they have been in power in Washington since 1962/67 and openly since 1991/97, and (3) they send tons of ammunition to kill Slavs and Palestinian descended from Hebrews and Greeks, and yet the Kremlin fools are incapable of drawing a straight line through two or three points on this medieval polish ukrainian ethnic group and its delirious and bloody mental software
Posted by: Simon | Oct 20 2024 20:00 utc | 50
“Let’s have a look at the old score board”…
Russian Defence Ministry reports on the progress of the special military operation (20 October 2024)
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.
The Sever Group of Forces in Kharkov direction engaged formation of the 57th Motorised Infantry Brigade and the 92nd Air Assault Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Liptsy and Volchansk (Kharkov region). The AFU losses were up to 90 troops and a 122-mm D-30 howitzer.
The Zapad Group of Forces improved the tactical situation, inflicted losses on manpower and hardware of the 54th, 60th, 67th, 116th mechanised brigades of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and 119th Territorial Defence Brigade near Kupyansk, Peschanoye (Kharkov region), Prishib, and Terny of the Donetsk People’s Republic.Three counter-attacks launched by assault detachments of the AFU 14th Mechanised Brigade were repelled.
The enemy lost more than 450 troops, a U.S.-made M113 armoured personnel carrier, one pick-up, a Polish-made 155-mm Krab self-propelled artillery system, a 122-mm D-30 howitzer, a U.S.-made 105-mm L-119 gun, an Anklav-N electronic warfare station, and a U.S.-made AN/TPQ-50 counter-battery warfare radar.
The Yug Group of Forces improved the situation along the front line, engaging formations of the 10th Mountain Assault Brigade, 23rd, 54th, 116th mechanised brigades, 56th Motorised Infantry Brigade, 79th Air Assault Brigade, and 46th Airmobile Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Reznikovka, Seversk, Verolyubovka, Dalneye, Kurakhovo, Dachnoye, and Konstantinovka (Donetsk People’s Republic). Two counter-attacks of the AFU 81st Airmobile Brigade have been repelled.
The enemy lost up to 645 troops, two pick-ups, and a U.S.-made 105-mm M119 gun.
The Tsentr Group of Forces continued to advance to the depths of the enemy’s defence, engaged manpower and hardware of the 150th Mechanised Brigade, 25th Airborne Brigade, 59th Motorised Infantry Brigade, 5th Assault Brigades of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and the 101st Territorial Defence Brigade near Dimitrov, Dzerzhinsk, Novotroitskoye, Shevchenko, and Tsukurino(Donetsk People’s Republic).Russian units repelled nine counter-attacks of 53rd, 93rd, 100th mechanised brigades, 68th Jaeger brigade, 49th, 425th assault battalions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, 37th Marine Brigade, and the Lyut Brigade of the National Police of Ukraine.
The AFU losses amounted to up to 460 troops, a U.S.-made M117 armoured personnel carrier, two Kozak armoured fighting vehicles, five motor vehicles, a 203-mm Pion self-propelled artillery system, and a 122-mm Grad MLRS.
The Vostok Group of Forces seized more advantageous lines, inflicted losses on manpower and hardware of the AFU 72nd Mechanised Brigade close to Dobropolye (Donetsk People’s Republic). One enemy counter-attack was repelled.
The enemy losses were up to 110 troops, an armoured fighting vehicle, three motor vehicles, and a Polish-made 155-mm Krab self-propelled artillery system.
The Dnepr Group of Forces engaged formations of 141st Infantry Brigade, 35th Marine Brigade, 124th and 126th territorial defence brigades near Kamenskoye (Zaporozhye region), Dneprovskoye, Nikolskoye (Kherson region), and Kherson.
The AFU losses amounted to up to 50 troops, seven motor vehicles, and one Plastun electronic signal intelligence station. Two ammunition and materiel depots were neutralised.
Operational-Tactical Aviation, UAVs, Missile Troops and Artillery of the Russian Group of Forces have hit temporary deployment areas of foreign mercenaries, production facilities of unmanned aerial vehicles, training and launching sites in Sumy and Kharkov regions, as well as clusters of enemy manpower and military hardware in 131 areas.
Air Defence units shot down five U.S.-made HIMARS MLRS projectiles and 142 fixed-wing unmanned aerial vehicles.
In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 646 aircraft, 283 helicopters, 33,966 unmanned aerial vehicles, 582 anti-aircraft missile systems, 18,740 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 1,478 MLRS combat vehicles, 16,418 field artillery guns and mortars, and 27,430 units of support military vehicles have been neutralised.
https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12533781@egNews
Some commenters have poked fun at the concept of Ukrainian counter-attacks, believing these to be signatures of Russian setbacks; what has been noticeable, for quite some time, is the high level of casualties these counter operations incur. Attrition can be a ruthless bitch…
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 20:28 utc | 51
The Telegraph: Ukrainian drones targeted a crucial Russian arms factory more than 500 miles from the border. The state-owned Sverdlov plant is one of the largest manufacturers of explosives used by Russian forces in the war.
These long range missiles are clearly already there.
Nobody respects Putin’s red lines
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 18:36 utc | 37
Does it not occur to you Vargas, that the drone was launched from just a few miles away? And that the western media are disinforming people by ASSUMING it was launched from Ukraine?
Posted by: HERMIUS | Oct 20 2024 20:29 utc | 52
… (Rogozin) previously served as director general of Roscosmos from 2018 to July 2022
Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2024 19:16 utc | 44
Rogozin’s tenure at Roscosmos was unimpressive at best, perhaps not his fault. The legacy Soyuz boosters and capsules were kept running, a few tests of the Angara boosters were done, Kosmos-2555 and Kosmos-2560 didn’t last long in orbit. Maybe this was the fault of inadequate prioritisation and funding from higher up? If Rogozin was pleading for more support, his voice was ignored. The strategic situation at Roscosmos was already dire when Rogozin took over, so he should have been yelling as if his hair was on fire.
SpaceX had already landed a Falcon 9 reusable booster in December 2015 following a development pathway begun in 2010. China has already started down that road and hopes to recover a reusable booster in 2026, in which case China is only 11 years behind SpaceX. Russia has not even started, and is at this point 15 years behind SpaceX. It does matter, aerospace access is strategic, and it all starts with reduction in cost/kg to low earth orbit, the ability to launch large payloads, and the ability to maintain a high launch tempo.
He said satellite and surface guidance systems that could overcome electronic warfare were of particular importance to allow accurate targeting.
Good on Rogozin for sounding an alarm. To have top level satellite systems, one must have top level launch capability and the RF has fallen far behind.
Posted by: Drifter | Oct 20 2024 20:32 utc | 53
There is no “obligation” for anyone. Art 5 is optional and each member does what it wants.
Posted by: rk | Oct 20 2024 19:53 utc | 47
I’m aware of article 5. On paper the USA is an equal partner to all the other nations in NATO but in reality all these countries are in NATO to be under the protection of the US armed forces and the US nuclear umbrella.
Estonia or even Poland can reject a NATO call to arms but the USA can’t … NATO would fall apart the moment a member was attacked and the USA sat back and did nothing.
If NATO members are required to join in coalitions or spend more on defence whenever the USA asks them to then the USA doesn’t come to their aid when they’re under attack they won’t be sticking around long.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 20 2024 20:33 utc | 54
anon2020 | Oct 20 2024 19:16 utc | 44
Rogozin is not a lone voice. Prigozhin said much that was similar, and even made a Mad Man attempt to personally force a change. (Hope Rogozin is more circumspect and careful about “flying with hand grenades”.)
I’d like to know why Russia doesn’t have an analog of the Rivet Joint or Reaper drones.
The U$UK ones sit happily over the Black Sea; a RF equivalent sitting right above or beside the Rivet Joint would provide a bit of balance….
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 20 2024 21:04 utc | 55
Does it not occur to you Vargas, that the drone was launched from just a few miles away? And that the western media are disinforming people by ASSUMING it was launched from Ukraine?
Posted by: HERMIUS | Oct 20 2024 20:29 utc | 52
Oh, then I am totally deceived. Sorry.
But anyway how can a small drone launched by some sabotage group create such a big damage?
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 21:08 utc | 56
Oh, then I am totally deceived. Sorry.
But anyway how can a small drone launched by some sabotage group create such a big damage?
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 21:08 utc | 56
Very easily when the target is full of explosives!
Posted by: HERMIUS | Oct 20 2024 21:18 utc | 57
” The USA doesn’t want Ukraine to join NATO because the USA would then be obligated to defend Ukraine against Russia.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 20 2024 17:12 utc | 26 ”
You better stick to the MOA talking points and stop talking in circles. The reason Putin is going so slowly in Ukraine is not to provoke the US into a full blown conflict, because thats what the US wants 😉 The regulars here assure us this is the truth. Therefore, Ukraine joining NATO is exactly what the US desires. Back to the drawing board sir.
Posted by: Moonie | Oct 20 2024 21:43 utc | 58
I noticed Elensky was described as “former” president of Ukraine. Quite right, of course, since his official term expired months ago and no election since.
But I can’t help thinking he would be better described as “acting” president of Ukraine – equally accurate but with extra relevance!
Posted by: mothy_jim | Oct 20 2024 21:45 utc | 59
Dima says, the Russian advance continues unabated.+
Posted by: guest from franconia | Oct 20 2024 21:45 utc | 60
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 18:36 utc | 37
A) It’s the Daily Telegraph, whose Ukraine reporting has been akin to Signal’s efforts when German armour last burned on Kursk soil.
B) It’s a bit late in the day to attack strategic targets, the time for that was pre-the offensives, not after.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 20 2024 21:04 utc | 55
Difficult to replicate the technology
Other platforms, and big ticket items had funding priority (nuclear triad, etc).
Soviet/Russian doctrine for Radioelectronic combat was suited to an explosively aggressive doctrine, so focused on finding, jamming and help kill units. Compass Call, Rivet Joint, J-STARS, Reaper, Global Hawk were all predicated on different priorities.The only similar applications to NATO was in the area of naval operations that required vessels to maintain strict EMCON, requiring surrogacy for detection and targeting purposes.
Posted by: Milites | Oct 20 2024 21:56 utc | 61
Posted by: Moonie | Oct 20 2024 21:43 utc | 58
The USA no longer gives a toss about NATO membership for Ukraine, because the US Deep State no longer gives a toss about NATO. Disregarding #OrangeManBad, NATO is now an obstacle, an impediment to hegemonic ambitions, being too flabby, bloated and cumbersome, riven with internal divisions. The US will dump it and there’s nothing the Europeans or the UK can do about this.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 22:07 utc | 62
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 21:08 utc | 56
There is no evidence of any damage that is credible. Telegram is not a credible source, nor is X.
You really ought to take some classes in critical thinking. It’s easy these days – online has vast free resources and Simplicius, RSH, plus many of the barflies here are good teachers.
Until you learn to think critically and like a scientist you’ll be blown in every direction by the four winds. That’s just how the Empire of Lies wants you.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 20 2024 22:19 utc | 63
Thanks b, for all your work and in keeping the threads short, before the ADD kids ruin it.
Couple of points mentioned, Russia hasn’t steamrolled into Ukraine not because it was concerned about NATO jumping in but because it cannot afford to occupy a country that size militarily or economically.
Russia has discovered its operational approach has the added benefits of demilitarizing and disarming NATO. Then there’s the exposure of NATO being nothing more than a paper tiger.
Western calculations was always a quick takeover followed by an insurgency that destroys Russia internally.
Ukraine has now made filming forcible “conscription” illegal. A business collaborator with the TC recruitment has been assassinated.
Posted by: Suresh | Oct 20 2024 22:49 utc | 64
Drifter | Oct 20 2024 20:32 utc | 53
There was an interesting article on John Helmer’s site regarding Rogozin, speculating about a future run for president. Although the article quotes an obligatory Russian dig at Marx for being insufficiently slavophile, perhaps the Communist Party of the Russian Federation (KPRF) might consider him as a candidate? Russian voters would respond well to a guy who survived an assassination attempt using a GPS guided shell fired from a French-made Caesar howitzer and posted the shrapnel that was removed from his neck to the French Embassy!
His tenure at Roscosmos was a mixed bag, but I think you’re correct that it was the result of wider systemic issues that were above his pay grade. He got the new Vostochny Cosmodrome up and running, although a few bribes had to be paid to overcome obstructionism by corrupt officials. As you said he finally got Angara flying after the program had stumbled along since the mid 90s, and brought online a new generation of small optical reconnaissance satellites like Cosmos-2555 (possibly used as a target for the Peresevet laser). The lack of reconnaissance satellites have been a major Achilles heel for Russia throughout the SMO, but the rate of launches has significantly increased over the last 18 months or so.
Rogozin initiated the Soyuz 5 / Irtysh program to develop a new launcher to replace Soyuz and Proton with a new vehicle that would be cheaper to operate than the heavy-lift Angara 5. Based on the Soviet Zenit that was lost when its design bureau was left marooned in Ukraine, but with a larger 4.1m diameter and upgraded engines, it could provide the basis for a Falcon 9 class reusable launcher. The only issue would be using its 1st stage engine (the most powerful ever built) for the landing burn.
Falcon 9 uses 3 of its 9 engines for the boostback/reentry burns and a single engine for the landing burn. Although Russian engines are renowned for their deep throttling ability, even using only 2 of the 4 chambers of the RD-170MV engine at their lowest throttle setting might be too powerful for the final landing burn. A possible solution would be to use a small 4-chamber ‘steering engine’, a common design feature on Russian ICBMs. The main engine would be fixed in place while the steering engine guides the rockets flight and handles the landing burn. Unfortunately we will have to wait to find out which approach the Soyuz 5 designers will choose, as disputes with the Kazakh government and the demands of the SMO have delayed the program.
Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Oct 20 2024 22:49 utc | 65
Posted by: Mario | Oct 20 2024 14:29 utc | 9
Posted by: TJ and The Bear | Oct 20 2024 14:34 utc | 12
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 20 2024 18:51 utc | 40 (and earlier @ 2)
Membership in NATO is partly contingent on joining the EU, and joining the EU is also partly contingent on joining NATO. Confusing, I know, but that is partly how both the NATO and the EU obfuscated for years on the question of Ukrainian membership, possibly under pressure of warnings from Russia that Ukrainian membership in NATO would not be tolerated.
Membership in NATO is not only “dependent” on Ukraine cleaning up corruption in its politics and economy, it is also dependent on the country having strong and stable military forces, secure borders and no internal conflicts. (On at least two of these other criteria, Ukraine failed even before 2022, and after 2022 the score is now 0 out of 3.) No matter that other NATO member nations have had, during the period of their membership or even before, issues with domestic civil unrest (hello Cyprus and Turkey) or with corruption (hello Bulgaria).
The original concept of NATO, enshrined in Article 5, is that all member nations participate in mutual self-defence. A member nation that is continually hoovering up other member nations’ weapons, materiel and military personnel (along with funding) and moreover expects them to do so (as the de facto Zelenski dictatorship does) would undermine the whole organisation like a metastasising cancer. Perhaps that’s what the incoming NATO Secretary General sees, with the insight of an outsider, now that Jens Stoltenberg has gone back to pretending to be a cab driver in Oslo or whatever he was before being plucked out of obscurity.
You may recall that back in 2013, the then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych decided not to sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement as that agreement required Ukraine to conform to EU standards in many different areas (including conforming to EU standard railway gauge, which would have required the country to rip up all its railway lines and replace its entire railway stock) with no guarantee of EU membership; and also as the country would no longer be able to trade with Russia and other former Soviet states not part of the EU. Yanukovych’s pause was what encouraged the Maidan revolt that led to his overthrow and exile to Russia.
The fact that Ukraine is not part of the EU (and there are member states there that do not want Ukraine in the EU, as their agricultural sectors would stand to lose millions if Ukraine were allowed in) is also a major brake on allowing Ukraine to join NATO.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 20 2024 22:54 utc | 66
The original concept of NATO, enshrined in Article 5, is that all member nations participate in mutual self-defence.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 20 2024 22:54 utc | 66
What NATO asserts about itself is only part of the story.
NATO, whatever the documents – not secret that we can see and the secret ones we cannot see – was set up to keep the Germans down, the US in, and the Russians out. That was the political orientation towards “allies” or potential allies.
So Russia, whether the Soviet Union or the current Russian Federation was always the enemy of NATO. Furthermore, NATO was always aimed as well at the domestic left; I mean the real left, not the fake left of today. Italy, France, and Greece all had powerful and large Communist Parties that were the ongoing targets of NATO, with “stay behind” armies, false flag events, military coups, and so on. It is rather hard to imagine today, but the major European political trends, libs, cons, monarchists, etc., were all tainted by collaboration with the Nazis in the period immediately following WWII.
The Soviet bogey monster was a justification to target this left. And NATO was the “solution” to this fabrication of an enemy.
I think this aspect of NATO as a military alliance aimed at the subjugation of the domestic population in the member states is not given enough weight.
Posted by: NH | Oct 20 2024 23:17 utc | 67
DS Map intel:
https://deepstatemap.live/en#13/48.0152479/37.3411560
Overall subpar day for the RFA. Took 10 kmsq in Ukraine. (16/day was the SEP pace.)
S to N:
1. 3msq in Zhelanne Druhe and vicinity. Town conceded by DS. This starts to put pressure on Hirnyk E side.
2. 1 kmsq within N part of Hirnyk, and the fields on N side. Hirnyk is in play now. Town is probably 10% red and 20% gray.
3. Clarification of advance towards Vozdvyzhenka. Reversed a small gain from yesterday. Call it nothing in terms of small reversal.
4. 6 kmsq E of Andriivka. Vyshneve threatened.
5. Most of Lyubimovka (Kursk) taken.
6. Most of Olgovka (Kursk) taken. This is an area that is now a UFA salient. Seems they are falling back.
Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 20 2024 23:46 utc | 68
@Jens Skolen | Sun, 20 Oct 2024 23:31:00 GMT | 68
2, NATO is a brilliant bogeyman for keeping Europe in line with US hegemony. The US controls everything which comes out the mouth of NATO Sec General. Therefore it controls the whole European security framework and all MSM narratives about it.
NATO is more of a tethering alliance to keep the US involved with Europe. The natural tendency for the US is to disengage from European affairs, especially alliances. This is in line with George Washington’s admonishment. And which the US mostly followed until WWII, and FDR/Truman.
The Europeans mostly prefer NATO over the alternative for collective security (CSDP) because they can buck-pass to the US, and don’t have to spend as much on defense. Otherwise, yes I agree that NATO is the linchpin for the European security architecture.
If the US withdraws, NATO ends. The next best thing to withdrawal (which won’t happen anytime soon) is, as you say, defeat in the SMO.
Posted by: James M. | Oct 20 2024 23:54 utc | 69
Replying to NorwegianPawn ( Oct 20 2024 13:31 utc | 3 ).
It looks like Korea will be reunified soon so there will be no Korean tanks for anyone in the west, Europe (and any non-EU “weird elves” 😛 ) will have to make do with the same US garbage as usual 🙂
Finland seems much more eager than Norway. Norway is the keeper of that “Obeisance Fund” and might have protected status because of that.
And of course there’s the whole “weird elves” thing again 🙂
Right? Admit it! 😀 (Don’t you dare point at Iceland!).
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 21 2024 0:34 utc | 70
On a more serious note there is the problem of NATO historically having being proven “right” after its establishment by the the counter-move of the USSR Warsaw Pact.
Yes that is turning thing upside down or back to front but it still makes sense for a bunch of small countries to see it as a case of “see we told you so!” in regard to (then) the USSR and communism (red star, five continents, etc.) and (now) “the big bad bear” and thus running straight into the arms of the big bad wolf instead.
You might not agree and I might not agree but it’s not too difficult to understand this particular point of view is it?
And that’s how we all became nazis* 🙁 (reference to an old comment of mine on how “we”/Europeans are all nazis now whether we like it or not. That comment was far too optimistic seeing as we are all genocidal zionists as well now, and not only in Europe but the entire world).
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 21 2024 0:53 utc | 71
@Sunny Runny Burger | Mon, 21 Oct 2024 00:53:00 GMT | 72
On a more serious note there is the problem of NATO historically having being proven “right” after its establishment by the the counter-move of the USSR Warsaw Pact.
I don’t know that it was proven “right.” It’s a natural tendency within the international system to form balancing and counterbalancing coalitions within the framework of the security dilemma. If the US was not going to disengage from Europe after WWII then they would inevitably have to balance against the Soviet Union, and vice versa.
Posted by: James M. | Oct 21 2024 0:58 utc | 72
Posted by: The Kaker | Oct 21 2024 1:18 utc | 74
are you talking about da silva not attending in person due to his incident at home and doctors orders? he is going to attend online.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Oct 21 2024 1:27 utc | 73
Posted by: vargas | Oct 20 2024 16:00 utc | 18
What the fuck are you talking about…I live in Berlin and the only thing the younger ones want here is to kill yankees…They just haven’t figured it out yet how to get started.
Posted by: Larsbo | Oct 21 2024 2:22 utc | 74
@Jens Skolen | Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:38:00 GMT | 76
Isn’t that exactly what I said in the rest of my post? Tethering. Sure. Financial, weapons, political influence. But who’s the tetherer? The US, our of blatant self interest. Why then would it “walk away” from its assets, as Jeremy proposed?
No, Europe tethers the US. They fear abandonment by the greater power, whereas the US fears entrapment within the alliance – or at least they should.
Posted by: James M. | Oct 21 2024 2:29 utc | 75
@Jens Skolen | Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:38:00 GMT | 76
That’s the silly, big “IF” I was arguing against. It’s a ludicrous proposition.
Nothing is ever out of the realm of possibility. Learn how and why alliances operate. An alliance can entrap or entangle a greater power and force into a war on the behalf of a weaker member. Do you think that the US will go to war with Russia if the latter invades Estonia or Latvia? Such a scenario is less likely than the US simply abandoning NATO.
Posted by: James M. | Oct 21 2024 2:35 utc | 76
@Jens Skolen | Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:38:00 GMT | 76
And, it’s even doubtful that a Russian SMO victory is enough, in itself, to cause NATO dissolution in the near future. Imo, it must come from a European self-awakening to its superfluity and its danger to its own governments and citizens in ideologically poking the bear and propagating the second cold war.
This happens when the weaker members are abandoned by the stronger ally. NATO doesn’t have to officially “dissolve”- it is rendered a dead letter regime by a Russian victory in the SMO. Meaning, it will be exposed as a paper tiger to its members, because the alliance and its primary patron (the US) failed to protect a nominal, even de facto, ally.
Yes, Ukraine is not a de jure member, so technically Article V was never “activated.” But do you think it would make any difference? The US will never fight Russia because in the end it will mean nuclear war. All Russia has to do is outlast America in the SMO, which shouldn’t be hard to do.
Once the Europeans realize they cannot “tether” American power to them anymore, and the US positions itself more as a Pacific power than an Atlantic one, then they are left with two choices. They can balance Russia on their own through the EU CSDP, or bandwagon with Russia. And that will be the effective end of NATO.
Posted by: James M. | Oct 21 2024 2:56 utc | 77
Mike R | Oct 20 2024 14:01 utc | 4
*** If Russia ever does bring Ukraine to a surrender, and take control of the corridor to Odessa, I expect many European nations will be falling all over themselves to make nice with Russia.***
Maybe not. They’ve gone too far already. More likely to switch to more and more overt repression within the EU and its captive countries. Plus of course “Britain”.
Could even recruit some of the worst surviving Ukrainian extremists to assist in that…
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 21 2024 3:09 utc | 78
vargas | Oct 20 2024 18:24 utc | 35 ….
A very good and accurate post ….. 100% agree.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 21 2024 3:26 utc | 79
Maybe not. They’ve gone too far already. More likely to switch to more and more overt repression within the EU and its captive countries. Plus of course “Britain”.
Could even recruit some of the worst surviving Ukrainian extremists to assist in that…
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 21 2024 3:09 utc | 82
.
.
.
.Probably in this case!
Europe would not be and is not able to survive without Russia’s raw materials, but certainly not competitive with its industry. And money STILL determines how governments act, not the stupid ideas of obedient slaves of the USA.
If the USA falls economically, ALL Europeans, the vassals, fall with it.
Your analysis is also missing something, the mob, the people, which could even make it possible for the USA to become totally isolated. In Africa, the USA is already around 65% out of favor and is losing more and more, and in the Arab world even more. The resistance to the USA is much stronger among the European Western population. “Ami go home” is the motto of many demonstrations throughout Europe, it is just never reported on. Not reported in their own country, let alone between the EU states, which means that the French do not hear about the unrest in Leipzig, the Germans do not hear about the unrest in Spain or Italy. See peasant unrest with burning barricades.
.
Posted by: ossi | Oct 21 2024 6:39 utc | 80
Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Oct 20 2024 22:49 utc | 65
Thanks for the update on Roscosmos! Using a launch site outside the RF is absolutely problematic – as SpaceX has found, California is very nearly a former state of the US and already becoming politically problematic as a launch site.
Roscosmos does have an advantage in having reliable legacy engines on which to base a reusable booster system. They don’t have to duplicate the SpaceX engine system, and finding a way to do a landing burn with hardware they already have is certainly the way to go for the first system. Longer term a switch to cleaner methane engines (as used on the SpaceX Starship booster, the ULA Vulcan, and Chinese ZhuQue-2) is more compatible with rapid reusability. I wish Roscosmos all the best in returning to the first tier of spacefaring nations.
Posted by: Drifter | Oct 21 2024 6:47 utc | 81
@Cynic | Mon, 21 Oct 2024 03:09:00 GMT | 82
Maybe not. They’ve gone too far already. More likely to switch to more and more overt repression within the EU and its captive countries. Plus of course “Britain”.
Could even recruit some of the worst surviving Ukrainian extremists to assist in that…
It depends largely on if the Europeans have any other balancing option – assuming they would still act as a monolithic bloc. Some of the Eastern states – Slovakia, Hungary, and maybe Romania might bandwagon with Russia. While France, UK, Italy, and Poland will likely try to balance. Germany might buck-pass. The other states are too small or inconsequential or too indifferent to matter.
Posted by: James M. | Oct 21 2024 7:04 utc | 82
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Two Majors #Summary for the Morning of 21 October 2024; 06:58 (GMT+3)⚡️
🔹In the #Kursk region, our troops are advancing near the village of #Olgovka. In the forest areas clearing continues, scattered groups of the enemy are destroyed. From the side of #Kruglenkoye and #Nikolsky settlements the AFU brought into battle the arriving reserves and launched a counterattack, using up to two company-tactical groups with 10 armoured vehicles, supported by tanks. Covered by MLRS fire, units of our marines took the fight. In the vicinity of the settlement #Plekhovo, our units are clearing the area, destroying small groups of enemy infantry, several enemy militants were taken prisoner. In the Glushkovsky district near the village of #Volfino another AFU attempt to break through the border, consisting of up to 8 militants, was foiled, the enemy was destroyed by drone strikes and artillery fire. It was reported about the success of our troops in the village of #Kolmakov, about 7 kilometres to #Sudzha. Our aviation is actively working.🎬👆
🔹In the #Kupyansk direction, the Russian Army is advancing with heavy fighting in #Kruglyakovka, the zone of control around the settlement is also expanding.
🔹South of #ChasovYar, our troops are making their way along the T-0504 motorway towards the village of #Stupochki. On the map an important incision in the enemy’s defence is visible. Paratroopers continue the assault on the town itself.
🔹In the #Toretsk (#Dzerzhinsk), there is a gradual advance of our troops. Battles are going on for every house.
🔹In the #Pokrovsk direction, the battles in the eastern part of #Selidovo and around the town, which the RFAF trying to take in a pincer movement, indicate that the only remaining road for supplying the enemy, is under the fire control of our troops. In the northern part of #Gornyak, ours have advanced in the built-up area.
🔹In the #Kurakhovo direction, the RFAF are 👉 moving west from #Maksimilyanovka towards #Kurakhovo, an important AFU defence node. Moving from #Ugledar and #Vodyanoye, our troops are approaching #Bogoyavlenka, near which, according to reports from Far Eastern soldiers, the enemy has erected a fortified area, hoping to hold back the Russian Army’s onslaught.
💥In #Bryansk region, since nightfall, reports of air defence work against enemy UAVs. There is constant shelling of border settlements.
💥In #Belgorod region, the AFU Nazis do not stop strikes on the peaceful population. Two civilians were wounded in the settlement of #Gruzskoye, Borisovsky district. #NovayaTavolzhanka, #Shebekino and #Tishanka in Volokonovsky district, were shelled.
Posted by: Down South | Oct 21 2024 7:16 utc | 83
Joining NATO Is Key In Ukraine Victory Plan
Using transition period to realize Biden’s pipe dream …
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1847913842132582908
Joe Biden (joined by Macron and Starmer) is ready to invite Ukraine to NATO under certain conditions …
The original “invitation” to both Ukraine and Georgia was pushed down the throats of other EU NATO members by Bush-Cheney in April 2008 @BucharestSummit … knowingly crossing Russia’s red lines as warned by US ambassador in Moscow William Burns at the time. Seen by many as a declaration of war. In 2017 it was former NATO head Jaap de Hoop Scheffer who confirmed it had crossed Russia’s red lines. So Washington threw Russia out of NATO observer status and G8 returned to G7 of NATO members only … inviting Japan to join soon for defense of Western Europe. NWO
many demonstrations throughout Europe, it is just never reported on.
Posted by: ossi | Oct 21 2024 6:39 utc | 84
Tiny protests, useless. Has any (very) large protest ever worked in France? No, Macaron does whatever he wants. Remember during the thing how he convinced the population to get the pf…r? after he canceled a local version in development, he denied access to cafe. A few days later everyone was begging for one. He even used phones to track real time location of everyone and where they sit in trains and they loved it. His clone, Trudy, blocked bank accounts when he was upset by protests. EU is a system invented to take control over everything, there is no way back and no where to go to. Some may want to move to another country but they may die from cluster bombs on a beach or get bombed in any other third world country pretending to be independent. If don’t have a reasonably large wealth to move around, like the Ukro “refugees” in EU do in their +100k eur cars, you’re completely screwed or you can move and live where Marty from Amerika lives.
Posted by: rk | Oct 21 2024 7:31 utc | 85
Ugledar direction as of the morning of 21.10.24…
Fierce fighting continues in the Maksimilyanovka area.
Our units, developing the offensive to the south and southwest, crossed the Kurakhovo-Donetsk highway and are trying to bypass the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which are located to the east.
All this is being done in order to create a large bridgehead to encircle Kurakhovo from the south and help our units fighting in Katerinovka and on the approaches to Bogoyavlenka.
In Katerinovka itself, the fighting continues, but I think it will soon end there and the village will be liberated.
The fighting also continues south of Bogoyavlenka.
We keep our fingers crossed and pray for the guys.
Selidovo-Kurakhovskoye direction as of the morning of 21.10.24…
Here the main battles are taking place in the area of Selidovo and Gornyak.
Assault on Selidovo. Yesterday our units launched attacks on broad fronts in the northern and eastern parts of the city and as a result were able to advance both in the northern suburbs of Selidovo and in the eastern part of the city.
Our assault aircraft are gradually moving in single-story buildings. But so far this is not the main defense contour of the city. The Ukrainian Armed Forces rely here on the area of high-rise buildings.
Attempts to reach the Pokrovsk-Selidovo highway or take it under closer fire control are also continuing.
Assault on Gornyak. Our units have had much more significant success in Gornyak. Battles are already taking place in more than half of the city, and our units control more than a third of its buildings. Moreover, it is already obvious that our assault aircraft are focusing on occupying the mine in the southwest of the city.
Having taken control of it and the waste heaps, the rest of Gornyak, as well as the town of Kurakhovka to the south, will be surrounded.
The next few days here should be decisive.
Keep your fingers crossed and pray for the guys.
Kursk direction on 21.10.24…
Here the front is still relatively stabilized.
Our units are regrouping and preparing for a new push. In the meantime, they are clearing the village of Tolsty Lug of enemy remnants and trying to consolidate their position in Leonidove (so that later, from here, they can make a shorter push to Viktorovka and finish cutting off the northern group of the Ukrainian Armed Forces).
There are also attempts to develop an offensive south and east of Sudzha. And here we have tactical successes in the area of Plekhovo and Cherkasskaya Konopelka.
We keep our fingers crossed and pray for the guys.
Posted by: Down South | Oct 21 2024 7:35 utc | 86
Старше Эдды:
The head of the US European Command, four-star General Christopher Cavoli, suddenly stated that the Russian army will become stronger as a result of the ongoing war, regardless of how exactly the fighting ends. “The Russian armed forces are studying, improving and implementing experience,” he said in an interview with Spiegel magazine.
This admission can probably be considered a statement of NATO’s remarkable idea of the beginning of the war, that the goal of what is happening should be the “strategic defeat of Russia.” Now it turns out, I will quote Cavoli again, that: Russia will become “an adversary with real skills, a large number of troops and clear intentions.”
I would like to note the main thing here: Russia will also be the only country in Europe that understands how a major war is waged. In Europe during the Cold War, there were German, British, French and even Italian veterans of the Second World War who
understood what a big war was, what its scale was, what the country’s economy and industry should be like, and how the troops should be managed.
Now, you can hardly find this on that side even among the Americans, due to the fact that those who were still taught to wage a big war have mostly already passed away due to age. And the irony of fate is the fact that even the Ukros who manage to escape to Europe (Zaluzhny, for example) will be able to tell them much more about this than they know.
But NATO will not learn from them, that’s for sure.
Posted by: Down South | Oct 21 2024 7:56 utc | 87
In the Bakhmut direction, the Russian army advanced south of Chasy Yar. In general, the Russian Armed Forces are increasing the onslaught in the Chasy Yar area, apparently trying to break through to Konstantinovka.
South of Chasy Yar, Russian units advanced along the T0504 highway to a depth of 1 km approximately in the direction of the settlement of Stupochki. At the moment, from the first houses of Konstantinovka to the zone of active combat operations is a little more than 7.5 km.
https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21287
In the Pokrovsk direction, the main battles are taking place in the Selidovo area.
Russian units are attacking the city from the northeast and inside its eastern part. They were able to advance in the northern suburbs of Selidovo and in the eastern part of the city. The main contour of the city’s defense by the Ukrainian garrison is located in the high-rise part, the Russian Armed Forces were unable to reach it – the battles are taking place in the area of one-story buildings – the first lines of defense of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
There are also advances by the Russian army in the area of the Vishnevoye point from the side of the railway.
At the same time, a Ukrainian fighter with the call sign “Flour” reports about the difficult situation of the garrison in Selidovo. He writes that the Russian Armed Forces have cut off all supply roads near Selidovo, except for one.
“In the Selidovo area, the scenario resembles Ugledar. The enemy has cut off all supply roads, there is only one left, which is very painful to move along. It is very important to hold this city, because if we lose it, then problems will start in the north, and there is a highway to Pokrovsk there,” he said.
https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21289
Posted by: Down South | Oct 21 2024 7:59 utc | 88
A former Russian oil executive has been found dead after apparently falling from the window of his Moscow flat.
Mikhail Rogachev was found outside his 10th-story apartment in Moscow with injuries consistent with a fall, Russian media reported.
Russian news agencies said authorities were treating his death as a suicide.
Who was this man and why is he important?
Posted by: vargas | Oct 21 2024 8:36 utc | 89
Tiny protests, useless.
Posted by: rk | Oct 21 2024 7:31 utc | 89
You are right. EU is a system of full technocratic and capitalistic domination. The population is so mentally reduced that they are unable even to think about any kind rebellion. Like Winston Smith, in the end of 1984. they love their oppressors.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 21 2024 8:39 utc | 90
Who was this man and why is he important?
Posted by: vargas | Oct 21 2024 8:36 utc | 94
Maybe he wasn’t important at all.
Maybe he tried to emulate Fedya Dolokhov.
Maybe he thought his life could only proceed in One Direction.
Posted by: Liolia Paluzas | Oct 21 2024 9:09 utc | 91
Re: Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 20 2024 22:19 utc | 63
You really ought to take some classes in critical thinking. It’s easy these days – online has vast free resources and Simplicius, RSH, plus many of the barflies here are good teachers.
LMFAO!!
You think RSH is a “critical thinker”!!
The man is an ignorant and over confident blowhard and buffoon!!
I can remember several thousand enormous predictions he’s made, nary a correct one though.
Posted by: Julian | Oct 21 2024 9:10 utc | 92
Any reliable news from Moldova? Highly relevant to this thread. It was neck and neck last time I looked, if Western media are to be trusted (unlikely).
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 21 2024 9:26 utc | 93
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 21 2024 9:26 utc | 97
Sandu failed the Euro referendum, because her team was spending the budget (like our media department of the President’s Office), and not really working.
Her excuses that the Kremlin poured money, and someone interfered with her – this is an attempt to justify herself. Everyone knows that the West poured much more money into this referendum in Moldova.
The main feature that Sandu’s political strategists did not realize is that these “elections” were not for the EU or for Russia. This referendum in Moldova was against war.
Everyone understood that Moldovans would not see the European Union (the example of Georgia and Ukraine), we wrote about this for a reason. But everyone understood that Moldova was being prepared for war, and Euro dreams were bait. So Moldovans voted against.
The Moldovan answered himself honestly:
– yes, we live in poverty
– yes, there is almost no work
– yes, the tariffs are high
– yes, it may be better in Europe (in Germany or Italy, but not Romania).
‼️But the most important thing is that we live PEACEFULLY!
We believe that the narrative “about peace” will be relevant not only in the second round of the presidential elections in Moldova, but especially in the parliamentary elections in 2025.
We will add that Russian political strategists also failed this fight. They were just lucky that the Moldovans themselves saw what the “Europopulists” (Zelensky/Saakashvili) could lead to and decided to go a different way.
As we predicted, the Moldovan authorities have pulled up the referendum results, will close the case thanks to foreign polling stations, but the aftertaste will remain, and the failure is obvious.
According to preliminary results, after processing 97.66% of the ballots within the constitutional referendum, 50% voted “YES” and 50% voted “NO”. If the referendum is recognized as valid (this means that more than 50% must vote for the “YES” option), then the preamble to the Constitution will be supplemented with two new points, which will state that the identity of the people of the Republic of Moldova is European, and integration into the European Union is the country’s strategic goal. At the same time, a new concept will be added to the Constitution – “integration into the European Union”.
We are waiting for the second round of presidential elections.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/24684
Very bad results for Sandu in the elections in Moldova, and the government will still improve the results of the referendum, but it will clearly be difficult to pull off a second round of presidential elections.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/24683
🇲🇩🗳 On the Unexpected Results of the Elections in Moldova
In Moldova, almost all ballots have been processed in the presidential election and the referendum on European integration. It is already possible to say that the results for the incumbent president Maia Sandu turned out to be much worse than she and her Western curators had expected.
▪️A shocking situation is happening with the referendum on amending the Constitution to join the EU.
Last night, during the processing of 20.55% of the ballots, 58.09% were against European integration, and 41.31% were in favor.
▪️At the same time, in the processing of 26.68% of the ballots in the presidential election, Sandu was leading with 34.11%, while her main opponent from the Party of Socialists, Alexander Stoianoglo, had 29.68%.
❗️After the initial results, Sandu canceled the press briefing scheduled for 10:45 pm.
Sandu came out at 2 am with a sensational statement about a “unprecedented attack by criminal forces on Moldova”, who allegedly “bought 300,000 votes”. The cherry on top was the phrase: “when the final results become known, we will return with decisions”.
▪️This morning, the referendum result changed sharply. With 98.33% of the ballots processed, 50.03% were in favor of European integration, and 49.97% were against.
▪️In the presidential election, with 97.61% of the ballots processed: Sandu – 41.86%, Stoianoglo – 26.32%.
▪️In the presidential election, Moldova is expecting a second round. It is already possible to say that Sandu ensured her advantage due to the overseas vote.
After all, Sandu even in her native border Falesti district took only third place with a result of 23.5%, losing to Renato Usatii (34.6%) and Stoianoglo (27.48%).
▪️However, the sharp changes in the referendum results hint at possible falsifications, even though mechanisms for this, such as postal voting and sending extra batches of ballots, for example, to Germany, were prepared.
▪️Sandu’s cancellation of her briefing and the night-time hysteria over the “purchase” of votes do not work in her favor. Such statements only raise additional suspicions.
🔻But it is obvious that this is not the result that the Eurocrats led by Ursula von der Leyen were expecting, campaigning for the referendum and Sandu. Even if the referendum wins by a margin of 1% – this is tantamount to a defeat and characterizes the clear failure of Sandu’s policy, primarily in the eyes of the West, given the efforts expended.
It is possible that now in the West they will start contacting the opposition and dumping the project to re-elect Sandu, since there is a high probability of her defeat in the second round, and in case of a positive outcome, her second term will be pursued by accusations of illegitim
https://t.me/rybar_in_english/18639
Posted by: Down South | Oct 21 2024 9:40 utc | 94
Any reliable news from Moldova?
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 21 2024 9:26 utc | 97
—
Votes counted outside the country turned around the early results to favor EU integration by a margin of a fraction of a percent.
Diasporas are always interesting demographic.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2024 9:42 utc | 95
Why don’t you just Google or Yandex him yourself, you lazy, thoughtless cunt. Why do you expect people here to satisfy your every thought-bubble.
Posted by: Go_to_Hell | Oct 21 2024 9:40 utc | 98
People on MoA usually know better and have better links then google
Posted by: vargas | Oct 21 2024 9:47 utc | 96
Dima says, here we go. Russians start offensive.
Posted by: guest from franconia | Oct 21 2024 9:49 utc | 97
🧩🇲🇩🧩 Moldovan fracture
The results of the elections in Moldova were the first failure of the West in the post-Soviet space in a long time.
Despite unprecedented administrative pressure from the authorities:
✅ they closed all opposition TV channels, banned a bunch of parties, even pressured Durov to close the Telegram channels of part of the opposition;
✅ they banned exit polls;
✅ they opened only a few polling stations in the Russian Federation and Transnistria, while sending 800+ thousand ballots abroad;
✅ they allowed manual cutting off of unnecessary observers;
✅ they clearly cheated with the vote count, which was noticeable;
the final advantage in the referendum will be around 2-3 thousand votes with 1.5 million voters‼️
At the same time, there were 52,000 more valid ballots for the presidential elections. The fact is that the leader of the socialists Dodon called for a boycott of the referendum, and not to vote against. Therefore, some of his voters spoiled the ballots, which ultimately brought victory to the West.
As for the presidential elections, everyone saw Sandu’s reaction. The approximately 635,000 votes that she received in the first round are a disaster for her, because she has nowhere to take electoral reserves from. But her opponent, Stoianoglo, who is generally neutral on all issues, takes almost all the votes of the remaining candidates.
There are still many negative conclusions to be written about Sandu’s results (especially when compared to 2020), but the most important thing is that six months ago everyone was confident in the 70/30 figure for the referendum, and Sandu’s victory in the first round was considered the baseline scenario.
The illusory bubble created by the Sorosites burst due to the harsh response of the people.
It is also important to understand that it was the globalists who brought this result to the West, which gives additional arguments to Trump’s team.
Posted by: Down South | Oct 21 2024 9:53 utc | 98
Assault tactics of the Russian Armed Forces: from the enemy’s words…
Translation of the material by “Azovets” Roman Ponomarenko:
Everyone has heard about the constant enemy assaults that are daily repelled by the defense forces. But how do they happen? At the moment, two most common scenarios can be identified.
1. Unnoticed infiltration to our battle formations or behind them, taking advantage of the lack of a continuous front line. Usually, these are assault groups of 4-10 people, armed with small arms and several disposable anti-tank weapons. They stealthily approach the advanced positions (the approach time can last several hours), after which they suddenly attack.
If the garrison is caught by surprise, the position is lost. The assault aircraft dig in and wait for reinforcements. Our artillery and drones begin to work on them. Sometimes they smash the position to smithereens, along with the enemy. And sometimes not, and then the infantry has to repel it.
2. Large-scale, sudden and rapid attack on a complex of positions in one of the sectors. They actively use armored vehicles (infantry fighting vehicles, MTLB armored personnel carriers, sometimes even 1-2 tanks at the head of the column) and moving vehicles (motorcycles, ATVs). The goal is to break through to the defense zone, immediately disperse along it and attack the discovered positions from all sides.
Usually, the movement of the enemy column is recorded by our reconnaissance in advance. Artillery and FPV drones begin to work on it.
Sometimes the column is destroyed on the approach. However, in most cases, it is not possible to completely disrupt the attack, and the infantry is forced to repel it in close combat. Our tanks are already working in support of it (the case of an Azov tank ramming an enemy infantry fighting vehicle during the repulse of one of these assaults was publicized) and artillery with drones. Both sides actively use heavy infantry weapons (ATGM, AGS, machine guns, automatic cannons of armored vehicles). In these conditions, effective control of units, interaction between them and communication are of great importance.
In combat, both sides widely use FPV drones. Today, this is a universal anti-tank weapon and heavy infantry weapon designed to destroy buildings or dugouts occupied by the enemy. The role of artillery during assaults is reduced to a minimum – it operates on distant targets, and only in rare cases does it provide direct support to troops in combat.
Posted by: Down South | Oct 21 2024 9:55 utc | 99
Why sometimes in Kursk we only move forward a few meters
By Yuri Podolyaka, one of the best-connected bloggers
.
Attack tactics of the Russian Armed Forces: from the words of the enemy…
Translation of the material by “Azov Man” Roman Ponomarenko:
Everyone has heard about the constant enemy attacks that repel the defense forces every day. But how does this happen? Currently, there are two most common scenarios.
1. Unnoticed penetration into or behind our combat formations, taking advantage of the lack of a continuous front line. As a rule, these are assault groups of 4-10 people armed with small arms and several anti-tank weapons. They secretly approach forward positions (the approach time can take several hours) and then suddenly attack.
If the garrison is surprised, the position is lost. The assault troops gain a foothold and wait for reinforcements. Our artillery and drones begin to fight them. Sometimes they smash the position to pieces along with the enemy. But sometimes this is not the case, and then the infantry has to fight it.
2. Large-scale, sudden and rapid attack on a complex of positions in one of the sectors. Armored vehicles (armored personnel carriers, armored personnel carriers MTLB, sometimes even 1-2 tanks at the head of the column) and moving vehicles (motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles) are actively used. The goal is to break into the defense zone, immediately disperse there and attack the discovered positions from all sides.
Usually, the movement of an enemy column is recorded in advance by our reconnaissance. Artillery and FPV drones begin to operate on it.
Sometimes the column is broken on its way. However, in most cases it is not possible to completely stop the attack, and it has to be repelled by infantry in close combat. Our tanks are already supporting it (the case of an Azov tank that rammed an enemy infantry fighting vehicle and at the same time repelled one of these attacks became public knowledge) and artillery with drones. Both sides actively use heavy infantry weapons (ATGMs, AGS, machine guns, automatic cannons of armored vehicles). In these conditions, effective management of detachments, interaction between them and communication become important.
In battle, both sides widely use FPV drones. Today it is a universal anti-tank weapon and heavy infantry weapon for destroying enemy-occupied buildings or shelters. The role of artillery in attacks is minimized – it acts against distant targets and only in rare cases provides direct support to troops in battle.
Yuri Podolyaka
.
.
https://t.me/s/yurasumy
Posted by: ossi | Oct 21 2024 9:57 utc | 100