Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 8, 2024
Ukraine – FT Proposes Impossible Peace Deal, Demands More Violence

By now it has become accepted wisdom that Ukraine is losing the war against Russia.

Western governments are slowly accepting that their Ukrainian proxy forces have no chance to turn the situation around. None of their own populations or military are prepared to get themselves engaged in combat. Meanwhile the war support for Ukraine is eating into their budgets.

The situation necessitates to push for an end of the war – at least a temporarily one.

The Zelenski government is officially against any talk of ceasefire or piece without it being a full Ukrainian victory. But behind close doors such talks are preceding.

That is at least what the editors of the Financial Times are telling the public:

Ukraine’s shifting war aims (archived)

In Washington and some western capitals, meanwhile — and in the corridors of Kyiv — the mood is shifting: from a determination that the war can end only with Russia’s army driven from Ukraine, to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.

[G]rappling simultaneously with an escalating Middle East war, even some western capitals that previously insisted on the need to defeat Russia’s Vladimir Putin militarily are recalibrating their goals. Some Kyiv officials, too, fret in private that they lack the personnel, firepower and western support to recover all territory seized by Russia. There is talk behind closed doors of a deal in which Moscow retains de facto control over the roughly one-fifth of Ukraine it has occupied — though Russia’s sovereignty is not recognised — while the rest of the country is allowed to join Nato or given equivalent security guarantees. Under that umbrella, it could rebuild and integrate with the EU, akin to West Germany in the cold war.

The plan is to concede some land to Russia while giving a NATO protection cover to a rump Ukraine.

There are at least four groups involved here who will not agree to such a solution.

All NATO countries have to agree to take up new members. If the western parts of Ukraine are allowed to join NATO who is going to keep Ukraine under control? What would happen if it provokes another war with Russia? Will all current NATO countries find that agreeing to Ukraine's NATO membership will increase their own security?

Some countries, like the Russo-phobe Baltic ones, would probably support that step. But I do no believe that any of the more sane NATO members will be willing to risk a war with Russia over an issue, Ukraine, that is only of marginal interest to them.

An Ukrainian membership in the EU will see similar hurdles. Two-third of the EU budget are agricultural subsidies designed to allow for a common market without destroying the farming communities in this or that country. The largest share of those subsidies currently goes to Poland. Ukrainian land is extremely fertile. It can produce crops at much lower costs than its EU neighbors. The EU does not have and will not have the budget to compensate for that. Any entering of Ukraine into the EU would thereby lead to losses for farmers in any if not all current EU member states.

The price advantage of Ukrainian agricultural products is the reason why Polish farmers have just restarted their blocking of border crossings with Ukraine (machine translation):

Polish farmers blocked traffic at several checkpoints last winter and spring. They demanded that the Polish government suspend the transit of Ukrainian agricultural products, the import of which was previously prohibited.

The farmers of Poland have an unusually big influence on the country's policies. Poland will thereby likely be the country most opposed to a EU membership of Ukraine. Others will agree with it.

Ukraine itself would of course also have to agree to a ceasefire or peace agreement that would lead to a loss of some 25% of its land. While the average Ukrainian may well favor a land for peace deal a distinct minority on the radical right is adamant against it. As a previous FT piece noted (archived):

“If you get into any negotiation, it could be a trigger for social instability,” says a Ukrainian official. “Zelenskyy knows this very well.”

“There will always be a radical segment of Ukrainian society that will call any negotiation capitulation. The far right in Ukraine is growing. The right wing is a danger to democracy,” says Merezhko, who is an MP for Zelenskyy’s Servant of the People party.

The radical segment in Ukraine's society, aka the Nazis, are heavily armed and experienced in combat. They do have sympathy in the higher ranks of the Ukrainian army. The former Chief of Staff General Zaluzny is known for good relations with it as is General Budanov, the current head of the military intelligence service.

A civil government of Ukraine which wants to engage in serious peace negotiations will first have to neutralize those radical forces. Without that it will have little chance to survive their onslaught.

The fourth party that would have to agree to such a ceasefire, and NATO membership for a rump Ukraine, is of course Russia.

Russia was, is, and will be against any membership in NATO of any part of Ukraine:

In January 2008, William Burns, the U. S. Ambassador to Russia at the time, sent a classified cable to Washington in which he summarized Russia’s concerns about NATO expansion. The subject line, “Nyet means Nyet,” or “No means No,” conveyed in a single word Burns’ belief that NATO expansion into Ukraine was “brightest of all redlines” for Russia.

Russia largely launched its special military operation in 2022 to prevent a NATO membership for Ukraine. It was and is sure that any encroachment of NATO in Ukraine will be used to weaken Russia. It is now winning the war in Ukraine. To now agree on some form of NATO membership for a rump of Ukraine would contradict the war's purpose.

The ceasefire or peace plan the FT editorial foresees depends on the agreement of all NATO and EU member states as well as the approval by the Ukrainian and Russian government. Neither of the four groups is likely to sign off on it.

The FT editors know this well:

This scenario relies, however, on ambitious assumptions. One is that the US and its allies must be prepared to offer Nato membership or the necessary guarantees, when they have so far been reluctant to grant Kyiv a binding path into the alliance.

A second assumption is that Russia’s president can be induced to negotiate and accept such a scenario. But preventing Ukraine from joining Nato was one of his ostensible war aims.

But instead of rejecting the plan because it is obviously infeasible the editors demand to apply more violence to achieve its acceptance:

Whether the goal is outright victory or bringing Russia to the table, western allies need to strengthen Ukraine’s hand. The Kremlin can only be pushed into talks on a deal that might be satisfactory for Kyiv, and the west, if it feels the costs of fighting on are too high. And any resolution to the war that enables all or part of Ukraine to survive and prosper will need guarantees of its security.

We cannot yet know how the war will end. But it is within the west’s power — and interest — to help Ukraine regain the upper hand over its foe.

The editorial is a demonstration of the childish naivety that is predominant in western government thinking: Ukraine is losing. Propose a peace agreement that has no chance of getting implemented. Demand to intensify and prolong the war to -may be- make the infeasible peace plan less infeasible.

But Ukraine and the west have lost the war. Negotiating a ceasefire of peace deal with oneself, as the FT editors do, does no make it plausible. All ways to a deal that is "satisfactory for Kyiv, and the west" have long been foreclosed – by the west. There will simply be no deal like that – ever.

Denying that reality will only lead to higher losses for Ukraine and for the west.

Comments

Posted by: Don Quixote | Oct 8 2024 21:06 utc | 100
Carry on tilting at windmills. Reality, with all its violent and smelly unpleasantness, will intrude sooner or later. Dissipative systems continue to dissipate…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 8 2024 21:15 utc | 101

Infinite growth is not possible in a finite system.
But hold on a minute, we don’t need infinite growth forever, we just need enough growth for a very long time.
So here’s the plan.
What we do is get the Bank for International Settlements to set up a world central bank on the moon.
The Lunar Bank of Last Resort.
When a terrestrial bank reaches a point of debt deemed beyond rational repayment, say 500% of GDP, that bank applies to the Lunar Bank of Last Resort.
The Lunar Bank of Last Resort then issues an Extraordinary Drawing Right, or Lunar Bond and buys all that banks debt. The same applies to all the terrestrial banks until all the debt is rolled up into Lunar Bonds.
At this point the Lunar Bank declares a Lunar Debt Jubilee and all the troubles of the world are suspended for a massive global party.
So what happens to the debt then. Of course it has to go somewhere. Can’t just magic it away.
Here’s what happens on the moon.
Like I say, we don’t need forever, just a very long time. We can’t leave it for the next generation, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next.
But what about the next?
Let’s give ourselves a million? No how about 10 million years.
We still need to stick to realty of course. Can’t be accused of fantasy economics.
Here’s the deal.
Each Lunar Bond is minted from pure Plutonium!
Also, we get Billy Gates to build a solar power 10 million year Excel balance sheet that mirrors all the transactions on earth.
But here the thing.
Both the down key and right key are permanently on, so the spreadsheet is constantly scrolling to the bottom right.
THAT’S WHERE WE RECORD THE LUNAR BONDS! GET IT!!
To maintain the physical link and to maintain its Lunar time code, the CPU of the Lunar spreadsheet will derive its clock frequency from a detector measuring the radioactive decay of the physical Plutonium Lunar Bond, this frequency determined by Lunar ticks.
To sum up, all the debt of the world gets rolled up, we all have a Jubilee party, the financial system doesn’t collapse, we all breath a big sigh of relief and carry on as before.
When do the Lunar Bonds become Payable?
When the Plutonium has decayed so much that the Lunar Bonds can be handled with bare hands at least or when future civilizations are developed enough to recover them.
Who’s in?
Anyone?
Jeremy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWZ4gNqPP0&pp=ygUQdGhlIGZ1Y2tpbmcgbW9vbg%3D%3D

Posted by: LunarDegree33 | Oct 8 2024 21:24 utc | 102

stephen bryen from 3 hours ago…
Kamala, Zelensky, Russia and NATO
No negotiations, no peace, but what about NATO?

Posted by: james | Oct 8 2024 21:32 utc | 103

@ jpc | Oct 8 2024 21:05 utc | 99
Yup re fibre. We’re overdue for a Geomagnetic solar storm (Carrington Event) to return us(one hemiphere, maybe both) to the 1880’s by quite a few years regardless(IIRC). So no real harm done. 😉
Akin to Vernes Martians, our enemies study us, and get to make plans & move pieces on the board, too.
@ karlof1 | Oct 8 2024 20:10 utc | 89
Salut old friend. Aim to demilitarize ? Not knowingly, yet, effectively, yes.
To paraphrase:
“‘Tis difficult to make a person understand/comprehend a thing, when their status, position, career and financial security is dependent on NOT understanding that thing! Nor under such situ willingly exit Plato’s Cave & actually embrace … reality.‘”
The consequences, for example, of continuous rolling deployments & forced illegal re-ups through the Afghan War & Iraq War over decades in perpetual COIN Ops, resulted in the most capable/competent NCO’s & junior officers to exit service serially at the first opportunity on a rolling basis. The remaining dead-wood, without options, were promoted multiple levels above their level of incompetence. The Flag officers of today. (A huge yet valid generalization re Arm/Branch/Dept) 🙂
‘Cause crony-capitalism/neoliberalism, self-licking stinktanks/NGOs/ISW clones, all throughout corporate/bureaucracy etc only submissive yes-men/woman advance. Few LTC equivalent who has ethics/principles & cannot be bought/owned/suborned/corrupted advances to full bird. Public/private/uniformed.
The Vampyres and their subordinate minions do not tolerate other than obsequious yes-men. Again, Boeing, Intel, SS, et al.
To put it coarsely, the Enron like geniuses, smartest guys in the room, smell their own flatulence & consume their own narrative/propaganda lies as if it was ambrosia.
We’ve devolved, for example, to unfit overweight naval ratings with a borderline IQ of 80 & 3-5 enlistment exemptions. Empire is more than naked … hence an admiral believes, asserts officially, we can build a new capable Fleet, & arm & crew it, to overcome the PRC PLAN by ’26-’27 with half a dozen naval dockyards(to the exclusion of service/maintenance of the Fleet in being), whilst of course the PLAN looks on and does, zip. 🙁
See: WWI trench warfare, Western Allies, Lions led by Donkeys.(Apocryphal)
Apologies, old ground, am somewhat down.

Posted by: Outraged | Oct 8 2024 21:33 utc | 104

A wave of desertions in Ukraine https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/10/08/xyog-o08.html
A google search also finds many similar articles in mainstream media outlets about Ukrainian desertions. A rout of Ukraine’s military may occur soon, forcing the type of peace settlement Russia has already offered and which Western pundits are hinting at.

Posted by: Keme | Oct 8 2024 21:41 utc | 105

Posted by: LunarDegree33 | Oct 8 2024 21:24 utc | 103
Privatise the Moon? Brilliant idea! See to it immediately Carruthers!
Meanwhile, there’s this festering sore called Ukraine on planet Earth. See to it immediately Carruthers…
Carruthers…
Carruthers
Carruthers, answer me, damn you!…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 8 2024 21:43 utc | 106

America is the same as the UK. Mere ” $ promises ” buys imports. Exports don’t buy imports.
De- Dollarisation won’t change that simple fact. De- Dollarisation won’t collapse America.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Oct 8 2024 20:35 utc | 95
There seems to be an inherent contradiction between dollar promises buying imports and the rejection of the use of dollars by non-aligned countries ie “De -Dollarisation. Claiming that countries will continue to send goods in exchange for dollars ignores the new era we entered when Europe decided to confiscate those dollars when Russia refused to obey the American diktat.
There is a growing list of countries that cannot use dollars because of sanctions. Insisting that they will continue to accept dollars for trade in this environment doesn’t make any sense.
It also ignores the role of the dollar in international currency exchange. Ie the reserve currency status that is being rapidly eroded.
Your description of an FX exchange isn’t how global trade works. If a Korean factory wants a shipment of beef from Argentina the order is priced in dollars, and it’s dollars that the Korean factory must acquire to use in payment, see the asian crisis in the 80’s.
Let me draw your attention to this:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/
feds-notes/the-international-role-of-the-u-s-dollar-20211006.html

Over the period 1999-2019, the dollar accounted for 96 percent of trade invoicing in the Americas, 74 percent in the Asia-Pacific region, and 79 percent in the rest of the world. The only exception is Europe, where the euro is dominant.

As you can see the dollar is absolutely dominant globally. This represents an enormous exogenous demand for dollars. One that is unique in the world. Because everything is priced in dollars the US, unlike other countries, is for the time being immune from a balance of payments crisis. This is what is going away. When it does a severe dislocation in the bond market will follow.

Posted by: anonymous | Oct 8 2024 21:55 utc | 107

@ Sam | Oct 8 2024 20:42 utc | 97
The formal war planning for the aggressive war crime of the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 commenced in late 1996. The multi-State decision, initially 5-Eyes, & irrevocable commitment to actually go to war, regardless subsequent events, was made ~6-7 months prior to H-hour.
Cheers

Posted by: Outraged | Oct 8 2024 22:06 utc | 108

People holding US treasuries have exploded not diminished, so there is no de- dollarisation happening. It is just a game of musical chairs.
I will be proven right – Because America will not collapse, because both BRICS and De- Dollarisation was NEVER about that. It is the very last thing Putin and China want to happen.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Oct 8 2024 21:06 utc | 100
I’m not sure what you mean by exploding. If what you meant by people is the federal reserve then maybe.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TREAST
A good paper on it is here if you’re interested:
https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/shla2023r.pdf

Posted by: anonymous | Oct 8 2024 22:09 utc | 109

All this banter about gold and MMT is good fun, but can anyone point me towards a legitimate government of Ukraine? You know, the kind of body that would legitimately be able to partake in negotiations about its future? That Russia recognises as legitimate?
Nope, didn’t think so…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 8 2024 22:15 utc | 110

So I see we’re drifting all over the place again. We’re over here talking about MMT and infinite growth and solar storms…
Any news from the warfront? Any updates on the front lines?

Posted by: Stark | Oct 8 2024 22:50 utc | 111

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 8 2024 22:15 utc | 111
The problem is gold won’t fix it by using gold to balance the trade flows.
Please trust me on this Jeremy, during the meeting in Kazan at the next BRICS meeting their announcement will really upset the gold bugs because it does not work.
Russia and China knows it does not work. More importantly BRICS and de- dollarisation has nothing to do with gold bug fantasies. Trust me on that.
The reason they know it doesn’t work is because…
If the central bank of Country A was required to hold gold in proportion to the currency it issued (the proportion being the gold currency exchange rate), which meant it could always ensure full convertibility at the agreed exchange rate of currency into gold. Country B was the same.
Meant that if the central banks of Country A and B wanted to issue more currency then it had to get more gold to back it. That became the role of trade.
Gold is considered to be the principle method of making international payments. Accordingly, as imbalances in trade (imports and exports) arose this necessitated that gold be transferred between nations (in boats) to fund these imbalances. Trade deficit countries had to ship gold to trade surplus countries.
Which do far so good sounds good in theory.
But… The crucial bit the gold bugs don’t tell you and skip over.
For the trade surplus nations, Country A, the inflow of gold would allow their central banks to expand their money supplies (issue more notes) because they had more gold to back the currency.
Sounds great in theory for the manufacturing in the 3rd world for a change – but hang on a second.
The rising money supply would push against the inflation barrier (given no increase in the real capacity of the economy) which would ultimately render exports less attractive to foreigners and the external surplus would decline.
County B the trade deficit nation, the loss of gold reserves to the trade surplus nation forced their governments to withdraw paper currency which was deflationary and had the consequence of increasing unemployment, and driving down output growth and the general level of prices. The household sector in Country B got decimated and businesses spread unemployment like a virus.
The government in Country B could not expand base money if the economy was in trade deficit. It was considered that the gold standard acted as a means to control the money supply and generate price levels in different trading countries which were consistent with trade balance. The domestic economy however was forced to make the adjustments to the trade imbalances. Each and every time.
This in turn effected Country A As they had no consumers and their trade surpluses declined. In Country A The domestic economy however was forced to make the adjustments to the falling trade balance. In both country A and B the domestic sectors are punished.
In other words it is a race to the bottom a bigger thy neighbour policy that we see today under neoliberalism who implement gold standard, fixed exchange rate theory on top of fiat money.
No better example than the Eurozone that was set up using gold standard theory. Why some countries within the Eurozone could run large trade surpluses while the smaller countries on the periphery of the Eurozone was under harsh austerity.
Not only does truthful History show it. Even the very simple gold standard models show it.
HERE:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx6YkT75ehg
And here:
http://www.bondeconomics.com/2017/04/a-sfc-model-of-gold-standard-austerity.html
The Eurozone itself shows why it doesn’t work. Unless, they break the embedded mercantile rules within the treaties and as Draghi said do whatever it takes to keep the whole thing from crashing down around their heads.
Voters across the world have had enough of the race to the bottom and begger thy neighbour policies imposed on them by mercantile thinking. They are sick of it.
Trust me. BRICS will not go anywhere near it. That’s not what BRICS is about. They know it doesn’t work because of the reasons I have outlined.
Now what does China say about it ?
I will leave that to Xu Gao, the Chief Economist and Assistant President of Bank of China International Co. Ltd., and an adjunct professor of the National School of Development (NSD) at Peking University.
On August 19, 2024, Xu published a new essay on his personal WeChat blog 徐高经济观察 Xu Gao Economic Observation. This long essay, essentially making a case for Beijing to adopt stimulus measures, will be rolled out in three parts.
“Amid cautious signals from the Chinese government and the widespread belief in saving policy “ammunition,” Xu Gao calls for a shift to macroeconomic thinking. He contends the government shouldn’t be tethered to the belief that money spent is money lost, as a company might. The government revenue isn’t fixed or exhaustible but “endogenous,” says he, driven by government spending, which boosts private income, consumption, and investment. Unlike individuals and businesses who see income as beyond their control, the government, following Keynesian principles, can step in when demand falters. By increasing fiscal spending and liquidity, it can generate demand where the private sector won’t, matching purchasing power with the willingness to spend.
Xu argues that the real limit on stimulus isn’t money supply—it’s supply capacity. Rising inflation and trade deficits mean domestic supply can’t keep up with demand, making further stimulus risky. But when inflation is low and there’s a trade surplus, it signals excess supply, making stimulus “not only feasible but also essential.”
Here:
https://www.eastisread.com/p/i-xu-gaos-case-for-stimulus
MMT without naming it
🙂

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Oct 8 2024 23:24 utc | 112

@ Sun Of Alabama | Oct 8 2024 23:24 utc | 116 who is disrespectfully OT
Why don’t you tell us in the current open thread whether you prefer public or private finance…..otherwise STFU in this thread!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 8 2024 23:34 utc | 113

How strange. The bar suffered from exactly the same OT diatribes when “Derek Henry” was here…before he was banned. Also when “Echo Chamber” was here…before he was banned.
Hint hint.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 8 2024 23:52 utc | 114

Thanks b.
John Kerry, Killary and VDL all channeling Lenin (see Palestine thread) suggest “Narrative ” scribes like FT are being ignored by the masses.
Which is why this blog of yours has been a life saver for me personally.

Posted by: Suresh | Oct 8 2024 23:54 utc | 115

Outraged | Oct 8 2024 21:33 utc | 105–
It’s good to read your commentary again, even when it tracks in the SOSDD. I now have a substack–karlof1’s Geopolitical Gymnasium–where I mostly provide translated primary documents and the events that go with them since readers in the West and elsewhere don’t get the opportunity to read them, like Khamenei’s Sermon last Friday or Newsweek’s interview of Lavrov yesterday. Today, it’s “NATO From Russia’s MFA Perspective” and “CIS Heads-of-State Summit”. So, that keeps me busy to the point where I don’t interact here nearly as much as before.
So Cheers! And continued good helath to us both!

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2024 23:56 utc | 116

“The editorial is a demonstration of the childish naivety that is predominant in western government thinking”
Well I doubt if this posturing and blagging is aimed at any belief that it will suceed in stopping the RF from going as far as they deem necessary.
I think it is more aimed at the local populations of the Collective Waste. Especially at the U.K.’s.
As the Duran Alexs have long said ‘they have no reverse gear’.
‘They’ are the elites aristo establishment classes that have been used to being top dogs, technocratic managers, civil servants for multiple generations. They never admit a mistake. Never apologise and brazen it out. Applying harsh punishment upon any proles who disagree and refuse to die for their stupid, naive superiority.
We don’t want to have a war with Russia. We don’t want any wars with anyone!
So we have a Narrative construction and worse, a daily more likely establishment of an Internal secret police gestapo’ state. Led by a technocrat great man ( or in this instance WOMAN). Never really needed previously because the propaganda worked.
Now it doesn’t.
Hence the head of MI5 makes a statement publicly about the enemy within – the kids, others who have tuned out of the mainstream daily propaganda. We have open access to worldwide millions of social media posters, Alt news sites, bloggers. Tens of millions, hundreds of millions… more! That is the new threat! Lol.
So the story telling is aimed at us and the open minded who make up their own minds.
Killary said as much a few days ago, social media is coerced, because the collective waste media messaging is that coordinated. By PR supremos who believe in their oh so sophisticated own bullshit of being on top of all events and in control.
What happens when that breaks down? When they get trounced in their decades long plan of proxy Ukraine? Whacked in their ziofascist imperialism in the Levant and West Asia. Planned and secretly carried out by their establishment military, political elites. Controlled media and cultural hegemony?
Well they just ratchet it up! That’s what they always do. I expect the announcement of the British gestapo any day now and the targeting of thousands of bloggers, social media posters .. me!
It just means THEY are in panic mode and losing faster daily. Let’s see how many they can snatch from their homes before they are resisted. Brits aren’t used to being treated like Germans were! Or most other Europeans who had to carry ID to walk the streets. Being as naive as the toffs who are always respected and looked upto as being trusted. We will respond accordingly.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 8 2024 23:56 utc | 117

It isn’t off topic psychotherapist it is the crux of the issue.
To answer your question. Public each and every time. Michael Hudson all the way baby. Hudson all the way.
So does Xu Gao, the Chief Economist and Assistant President of Bank of China and an adjunct professor of the National School of Development (NSD) at Peking University above.
China have just announced phase 1.
It is EXACTLY what both the Eurozone and NATO are trying to prevent. How BRICS fits into the picture.
With the Eurozone (mercantilism) the economic arm of NATO.
NATO the military arm of the Eurozone (mercantilism).
US hegemony is To keep their fiscal conservatism and sound money socialism alive. Other countries are saying Nyet means Nyet.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Oct 9 2024 0:04 utc | 118

https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2024/06/11/dollar-dominance-in-the-international-reserve-system-an-update
% of reserves held as US dollars dropping. There’s still a long way to go but I see a teeter totter situation. The world can hold or trade in dollars or not, like a coin flip or minimal inconvenience. Then, the US loses dominance without total collapse. At that point, if they keep bullying, things could fall apart if they refuse to because nations can do otherwise.
Phase two of dollar trouble happens if the political structure can’t stop itself from unproductive spending similar to 3rd world nations.

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 9 2024 0:10 utc | 119

Interesting public statement just now from Hungarian FM that behind closed doors, most NATO members have told him that they oppose 404 joining it. We of course knew that, as does Russia. But Zelensky still suffers his fantasies. Or does he? Moscow is probably just waiting till US/NATO stops denying its own truth so that it’s not an end of SMO issue, so it will be a foregone conclusion. Bedtime tears for Volodomyr. Ho ho ho.

Posted by: Not-a-troll | Oct 9 2024 0:28 utc | 120

karlof1 | Oct 8 2024 17:18 utc | 29
Appreciate your comment re EUNATO and U$ MIC.
In addition to the predicament EUNATO now finds itself…..
Trump weighs in with his ever crowd-pleasing trope, that EUNATO “must pay its own way “, and “gimme that 2% (or 4%) service fee”.
In Mafismo terms:
§ Pay us protection or your home-business burns
§ Your business burned? (NS2). It wasn’t us. You can’t prove a thing. If you know what’s healthy for you.
§ Burning businesses isn’t cheap … we had expenses. Now you owe an additional service fee.
§ You need to keep paying us protection.
§ You need to buy more overpriced fire trucks and associated equipment. From us.
§ We need to crew the fire trucks.
§ You need to build accommodation and then pay to accommodate our fire crews.
§ We can’t be relied on to come put out a fire that we might start in your neighbourhood
§ If we want to start a fire in your neighbourhood. We will give you the matches. We’ll provide the accelerant.
§ If you start a fire in your neighbourhood at our behest. That’s on you.
§ I’m now bored with this analogy. But there’s plenty more analogy to make

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 0:38 utc | 121

Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 8 2024 22:15 utc | 111
Russia-Putin see the CookieNuland coop of 2014 as terminating the legitimate governance of Ukraine.
However they did negotiate Minsk 1+2 with the installed Poroshenko regime.
Your point about the expired terms of both the president and the Rada is correct.
But might does create right.
If it means actually ceasing the killing and on terms agreeable to Russia…. I think they’ll negotiate with Zelensky’s coke stash (or piano) if necessary.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 0:48 utc | 122

“How does the Hot War get ended?”
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2024 17:18 utc | 29
My guess is the west tires of the expense, then lays the ground work for the next attempt. The borders will be whatever they are at the end based on the lines.
Whatever that line is will be lined with nukes.
And the west will try again, if they can.

Posted by: Archetypex | Oct 9 2024 0:51 utc | 123

How does the Excellent Ukraine Adventure end for the Nuland-ISW Kofman Lee McFaul crew?
When the money spigot dries up.
The hurricane that wiped away whole mountain towns in Appalachia might be the catalyst.
Independent YouTubers are quick to note the money sent to Ukraine and other countries… while money is limited to $750 for Americans who now have nothing but the clothes on their backs.
Comments on YouTube vid are ferocious. I can see a time looming Real Soon when every politician will fear for their lives if another single penny goes to Ukraine.
No money. No weapons. = No war.
It could happen faster than might be anticipated.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 0:59 utc | 124

Lord Bebo & Friends TG
U.S. warships were on the scene of the NordStream explosion with turned off transponders, shortly before the explosion!

A few days before the explosions that destroyed the two Russian German natural gas pipelines Nord Stream 1 and 2, which were laid out at the bottom of the Baltic Sea, US Navy warships were on the scene. They had turned off their transponders and when the harbor master of Christianso Island sailed to them because he noticed this and suspected an accident, the US Navy ordered him to turn back immediately.

https://t.me/myLordBebo/46897
Russian Intelligence Service has reliable information about direct involvement of #US and #Britain in the #Nordstream blasts – Sergy Naryishkin, director of Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service
https://t.me/myLordBebo/46898

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Oct 9 2024 1:31 utc | 125

Ukraine still only conscripts men 25 and older. They could go down to 16-17. Lindsey Graham’s “to the last Ukrainian” plan may have a way to go, unfortunately.

Posted by: Sentient | Oct 9 2024 1:48 utc | 126

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 8 2024 22:15 utc | 111
I suspect that at the end of the day nobody will consult Ukraine.

Posted by: anonymous | Oct 9 2024 1:57 utc | 127

@128
“How does the Excellent Ukraine Adventure end for the Nuland-ISW Kofman Lee McFaul crew”
It’s long been clear that Nuland/Kagan’s ISW is a fraud. As for McFaul, he’s well-known as a deceitful, ‘democracy-at-any-cost’ideologue who lusts for the destruction of any Russian state that efficiently safeguards the country’s sovereignty against Western power.
But what about Kofman and Lee? They’re analysts who must pay lip service to the political tenets of their employers in the academic/think tank world, certainly. But what other ulterior motives are they known (or suspected) to have?
I’m curious what others think about Kofman and Lee.

Posted by: GW | Oct 9 2024 2:04 utc | 128

“The bar suffered from exactly the same OT diatribes when “Derek Henry” was here…before he was banned. Also when “Echo Chamber” was here…before he was banned.”
“Hint hint.”
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 8 2024 23:52 utc | 118
Weird how those diatribes can take up even more bar stools now than they did before. I notice more people discussing off-topic stuff like that than a year or two ago. Few barflies comment on DownSouth’s posts. Lots of comments about “gold, bitchez!” and such.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 2:23 utc | 129

@ Be fair | Oct 9 2024 2:23 utc | 133
Most of what Down South reports is fact, and it’s hard to respond to fact except with a superfluous “hear, hear!” — or with a lie, which is why we have trolls, I guess.
Most discussion consists of conflicting interpretations or opinions — or of course speculation.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 9 2024 2:32 utc | 130

“Most discussion consists of conflicting interpretations or opinions — or of course speculation.”
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 9 2024 2:32 utc | 134
Yeah. It’s interesting that more people now comment on Trump or climate or Covid or trolls than on the daily military facts as posted by DownSouth, etc. As with a lot of sites, people are mostly here to argue.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 3:09 utc | 131

We are far past the point where the West can negotiate with Russia, instead Russia will impose a settlement. Even if Trump won he is not inaugurated until January 20th, leaving more than three more months of Ukrainian losses in territory, soldiers and equipment in the interim. It will be the middle of winter with Ukraine de-energized and nice hard ground for a Russian army used to fighting in the winter.
I would be stunned if Russia did not want everything east of the Dniepr, plus Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Odessa. Combined with an end to sanctions and de-Nazification and de-militarization and no NATO for the remaining rump of Ukraine. Trump has threatened a lack of agreement of Russia to his terms will result in an escalation from the West, but the reality is that there is little real capability for such an escalation while Russia now possesses a large battle-hardened military.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 9 2024 3:15 utc | 132

Posted by: Roger | Oct 9 2024 3:15 utc | 136
Yeah but how does all that fit into Marxist ideology? And what do the working-class in the Donbass really think about climate change? And what percentage of the Russian-speaking population of Ukraine have taken the clot-shots?

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 3:26 utc | 133

I’m wondering if the people of Donbass are sitting around discussing the benefits of a gold-based monetary system.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 3:36 utc | 134

Sentient | Oct 9 2024 1:48 utc | 130
>…Ukraine *could* recruit 15-25 year olds.
Sure. But take a peak at their population “pyramid”.
That cohort of Ukrainians weren’t ever born. I was going to say “conceived”, but abortion in Ukraine and Russia was at epidemic proportions in the decade that should have produced the crop of Ukrainians they now are wanting to send to the meat grinder.
The saying “better to have never been born” has a salutary ring to it for Ukrainian youth.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 3:39 utc | 135

@ Roger | Oct 9 2024 3:15 utc | 136 with the Russia negotiating scenario
At 75K losses per month I don’t see Ukraine lasting 3+ more months but it may make it past November, which I didn’t think possible.
I still see Ukraine for Russia as being part of a bigger civilization war. They want to defang the God Of Mammon bully and I don’t see some follow on pivot to China….what we see going on now is for all the marbles, IMO
I don’t know what God Of Mammon bully surrender looks like but expect to recognize it if it happens…..end of NATO, maybe EU

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 9 2024 3:40 utc | 136

Most of what Down South reports is fact, and it’s hard to respond to fact except with a superfluous “hear, hear!” — or with a lie, which is why we have trolls, I guess.
Most discussion consists of conflicting interpretations or opinions — or of course speculation.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 9 2024 2:32 utc | 134
Hmmm, not so sure about —
Facts? Who the the hell knows? TG is predominantly just Twitter for Russians. Anyone can say anything without verification, especially if requiring translation. Much partisan narrative, jumping the gun, hearsay, and often retrospectively debunked. But who remembers and ever comments.
Few comments? Such walls of tiny text I never read. And what point to comment. It’s mostly just daily minutae from the front. Tomorrow all different.
But all the same, Down Under’s dilgence and daily dumps are appreciated … by those who care.

Posted by: Not-a-troll | Oct 9 2024 3:45 utc | 137

“I don’t know what God Of Mammon bully surrender looks like….”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 9 2024 3:40 utc | 140
I don’t know either, but one thing it doesn’t look like is “gold, bitchez”.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 3:46 utc | 138

This may sound cruel, but I think Russia need to give a thorough sense of defeat in the radical segment before the ceasefire.
Russia need to kill most of Neonazi radical segment at least mentaly.
For not happen such consequence, like the Germany after WW1, these people later say that ‘we could still be fighting if only we hadn’t been ‘stabbed in the back’ by the domestic traitors.’
So I hope that It should recognise as Ukraine has lost its ability to fight back completely, in the eyes of Ukraine itself and of the global audience.
If not, I believe that the far right, with its Nazi temperament, will plot another War later in order to deny defeat.

Posted by: Nokaz | Oct 9 2024 3:50 utc | 139

GW | Oct 9 2024 2:04 utc | 132
Back in 2021, when twitter was captured but available without an account, I read a lot of Kofman and Lee and their partners OSINT etc.
They cheerlead the march to war. Still now their “analysis” is what has driven the views of Lloyd Austin John Kirby and Snake Sullivan.
I don’t know how, but they’ve held an enormously overweighted influence on the war in Ukraine.
McFaul. Bill Browder still lurking in the shadows. …
For How “we” got here … we need to see Who got us here…

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 3:51 utc | 140

Thanks b.
John Kerry, Killary and VDL all channeling Lenin (see Palestine thread) suggest “Narrative ” scribes like FT are being ignored by the masses.
Which is why this blog of yours has been a life saver for me personally.
Posted by: Suresh | Oct 8 2024 23:54 utc | 119
Lenin was actually the greatest threat to the ruling class (read the Hillary and Kerry) of his time. He remains so, although long dead. Maybe you meant Stalin?
Anyhow, I get and agree with your point.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 9 2024 4:29 utc | 141

@Be fair | Wed, 09 Oct 2024 03:09:00 GMT | 135

As with a lot of sites, people are mostly here to argue.

You just figured that out? First day on the Internet?
Mainly, unless something “big” happens in Ukraine, we’re left in the dark on the SMO. Neither the Russian or Ukrainian military commands are likely to share their war plans with anonymous posters online. So we are left with OSINT, which is limited, and for something “big” to happen, which doesn’t happen very often in this war.
In order to give ourselves motivation to come and check this site daily and read comments on open threads we create conversations about whatever until something “big happens” in the war.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 4:33 utc | 142

Humm, so what happened in Ukraine that was so hard to spin that the ISW did not put up a “Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment” for October 8th?

Posted by: Rhymerez | Oct 9 2024 4:40 utc | 143

This may sound cruel, but I think Russia need to give a thorough sense of defeat in the radical segment before the ceasefire.
Russia need to kill most of Neonazi radical segment at least mentaly.
For not happen such consequence, like the Germany after WW1, these people later say that ‘we could still be fighting if only we hadn’t been ‘stabbed in the back’ by the domestic traitors.’
So I hope that It should recognise as Ukraine has lost its ability to fight back completely, in the eyes of Ukraine itself and of the global audience.
If not, I believe that the far right, with its Nazi temperament, will plot another War later in order to deny defeat.
Posted by: Nokaz | Oct 9 2024 3:50 utc | 143
That actually seems very reasonable to me.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 9 2024 4:42 utc | 144

“You just figured that out? First day on the Internet?”
Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 4:33 utc | 146
You’re a real dork. I’ve probably been “on the internet” longer than you have been alive. You think discussions about the “Deep State” started with Trump. Jeez.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 4:46 utc | 145

@Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 9 2024 3:40 utc | 140
I share your surprise at the ability of the Ukrainians to drag out their resistance this long, and can easily envisage a cascading collapse during the winter. Having lost pretty much all of their tracked vehicles, they will be sitting targets during the rains and then the snow of winter. Then at home, no electricity and no heat. The great difficulty will be with the Western elites accepting the scale of defeat that they have suffered.
But I could be wrong and the Ukrainians could still be standing in some form at the end of winter. The specific timing of a collapse is hard to predict.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 9 2024 4:51 utc | 146

@Be fair | Wed, 09 Oct 2024 04:46:00 GMT | 149

You’re a real dork. I’ve probably been “on the internet” longer than you have been alive. You think discussions about the “Deep State” started with Trump. Jeez.

You need to go back and read my response to your when the “Deep State” discussions actually started. You know facts and evidence are kind of needed.
Also, there’s nothing stopping you from not reading my posts. Although, since you’ve been on the Internet for fifty-plus years, you should have known how to read sarcasm in peoples’ posts.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 4:55 utc | 147

I would be stunned if Russia did not want everything east of the Dniepr, plus Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Odessa. Combined with an end to sanctions and de-Nazification and de-militarization and no NATO for the remaining rump of Ukraine. Trump has threatened a lack of agreement of Russia to his terms will result in an escalation from the West, but the reality is that there is little real capability for such an escalation while Russia now possesses a large battle-hardened military.
Posted by: Roger | Oct 9 2024 3:15 utc | 136

Do you see the Russian government mobilizing the necessary resources to take even those regions? I don’t.
And yet the current line of contact is not all that much different from Brest-Litovsk or from where the front was in late 1941 and then again in early 1943.
Which is in fact a lot worse of a situation for Russia because back then they had no nukes and no missiles.

The end of the war in Ukraine will be dictated by Russia on terms defined by its strategic necessities.
Posted by: Honzo | Oct 8 2024 17:02 utc | 22

How exactly is that going to happen?
The West has had the initiative and has been on the offensive since the start of this. Which was not in 2022 and not in 2014, but much earlier. Crimea 2014 and SMO 2022 were Russian counter offensive moves, but overall the front lines have been moving eastward. First Poland, Hungary and Czechia in 1999, then the Baltics, Romania, Bulgaria, etc. in 2004, then Ukraine was taken over in 2014, after the SMO started Sweden and Finland too. Russia has been in reactive, not pro-active mode all throughout, and has not controlled the course of events at all.
And now NATO entered official Russia and has still not been removed from there. See the trend?
Also notice that Napoleon and Hitler made a critical mistake back in the days — they took over too much too quickly and primarily by military force, did not take the time to consolidate, and eventually overextended themselves and it all collapsed.
The Anglo-Saxons are not making that mistake now — they are taking over countries gradually, fully consolidating control, then proceeding further.
Russia needs to take the initiative, and by taking the initiative, we mean moving the line of contact eastwards. But notice how the West moves it eastwards whole countries at a time without firing a shot, while Russia moves it westwards one village a week on a tiny section of the front.
Who is winning that way?
Russia’s strategic necessity is that the US is removed from Europe altogether. How is that going to be achieved if the US has fully consolidated control over the continent while Russia is too afraid to strike even at the targets in Europe from where strikes on its own territory are coming?
Again, who is winning that way?
P.S. Westoids are still westoids even when they fancy themselves as contrarians consuming too much alternative media for their own good. A consequence of this is the fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of this war. This isn’t Russia sticking it to the West by attacking Ukraine because it felt like it meaning that it has the liberty of bargaining for territory. This is the West executing the exact same kind of direct land grab of the most productive core historic Russian lands that Hitler planned to do with Operation Barbarossa. And currently the West holds half a million square kilometers of Russian land while much of what Russia has recovered is a bombed out moonscape and densely covered with mines, unexploded cluster submunitions and DU that will make it semi-habitable at best for many decades to come, with the immediate prospects being that whatever further Russia can managed to recover in the future will be in the same state of degradation. Who is winning so far once you look at it from that proper perspective?

Posted by: 1917 | Oct 9 2024 5:04 utc | 148

“You need to go back and read my response to your when the “Deep State” discussions actually started. You know facts and evidence are kind of needed.”
Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 4:55 utc | 151
I think you have been handed your ass repeatedly, but you keep doubling down. Give it up this time. When you stay on topic you aren’t bad.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 5:04 utc | 149

The Anglo-Saxons are not making that mistake now — they are taking over countries gradually, fully consolidating control, then proceeding further.
Posted by: 1917 | Oct 9 2024 5:04 utc | 152
Who do you think these could be? I keep looking for them in leadership positions like the US cabinet and the owners and operators of transnational corporations but I have come up short. There is a group is overwhelmingly over represented in these areas in the west. And if policy is any guide are the dominate political force in all western countries. But they aren’t anglo-saxons. Is this a code word for something?

Posted by: anonymous | Oct 9 2024 5:12 utc | 150

James M. is indeed one of those “Trump Derangement Syndrome” persons. Now to be fair, he correctly identifies the other side of the coin, “Trump Savior Syndrome”. Wait, not sure if he ever actually did that.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 5:13 utc | 151

I can’t believe Russia would stop the SMO before Odessa was in their control

Posted by: Charles E. Fromage | Oct 9 2024 5:20 utc | 152

I can’t believe Russia would stop the SMO before Odessa was in their control
Posted by: Charles E. Fromage | Oct 9 2024 5:20 utc | 156
Why fight for it when it can be part of the capitulation agreement?

Posted by: Suresh | Oct 9 2024 5:29 utc | 153

Westoids are still westoids even when they fancy themselves as contrarians consuming too much alternative media for their own good.
I mostly scroll your wall-o-pixels, Shadowspam, but I’ll concede, even buy you a beverage for that line.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 5:39 utc | 154

@Be fair | Wed, 09 Oct 2024 05:04:00 GMT | 153

I think you have been handed your ass repeatedly, but you keep doubling down. Give it up this time. When you stay on topic you aren’t bad.

By who and where? No one has even come close to refuting what I’ve said about the deep state, yourself included. All you, and they do, is come up with empty assertions, and say Ohh Gotcha! I come up with empirical evidence, or question those assertions with logical reasoning.
I’m just curious if you have any formal education beyond the secondary stage, or even beyond the primary stage? Do you know how to formulate an argument? To craft logical responses without using fallacies? Use inductive and deductive logic? Do you know what those terms mean without googling them?
When you have an argument, instead of an empty assertion let me know, and we can start a debate to see if your argument is sound or unsound.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 5:52 utc | 155

Everyone thinks 1917 is Shadowbanned but I don’t think so. Shadowbanned was much better at spelling and English grammar than 1917. Same sort of “concerns” though.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 5:59 utc | 156

1917 is a rather poor imitation of Shadowbanned, imo.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 6:04 utc | 157

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Two Majors #Summary for the Morning of 9 October 2024; 06:55 (GMT+3)⚡️
🎯Last night, the RFAF fired at least three Iskander missiles at #Poltava, six missiles at #Kremenchuk, and seismic sensors (3.3 points) were reported from #KrivoyRog in connection with the destruction of an underground ammunition assembly workshop. The strikes also hit enemy facilities in the #Odessa region.
🛡During the night, at least 12 enemy aircraft-type UAVs were shot down over the #Bryansk region, 10 UAVs were destroyed in the #Rostov region, including one near #Novoshakhtinsk and nine in the southwest of the region. In the #Krasnodar territory, the Shcherbinovsky district has been hit. In the village of #Shabelskoye, a UAV debris fell on a private house and broke out windows and damaged a gas pipe.
🔹In the #Kursk region, an AFU attack was repelled at the border in the Glushkovsky district in the direction of the #Veseloye village. On the Korenevsky section of the front heavy fighting near the village of #Lyubimovka.
🔹In the #Seversk sector, the RFAF 👉 formed another front bulge, occupying #Grigorovka (#DPR).🎬🗺👆Reports of fighting for #Serebryanka to the west of the village. Footage of the Russian flag in #Verkhnekamenskoye, the liberation of which was announced earlier, has been published. Apparently, our troops have broken through the enemy defences on this section of the front as well.
🔹From #Toretsk (#Dzerzhinsk) they report about the advance of our troops in the area of #Zabalka. Enemy resources characterise the situation as difficult for the AFU, reporting heavy fighting along Druzhba, Vasily Stus, Tsentralnaya and Rudnychnaya Streets.
🔹In the #Pokrovsk direction, fighting is taking place near #Nikolayevka, west of #Novogrodovka and #Tsukurino. Yesterday, the units of the ‘Southern Troops Grouping’ continued advancing deep into the enemy’s defence and liberated the settlement of #Zoryanoye1st in the #DPR.
🔹In the #Kurakhovo direction, west of #Ugledar our troops are consolidating in #ZolotayaNiva. There is fighting towards #Bogoyavlenka.
🔹From the #Zaporozhye front they report about the consolidation of our units in the southern part of #Kamenskoye.
💥In #Kherson region, as a result of an AFU missile strike on the village of #Krasnoye in the Skadovsky district, a private house was completely destroyed. Two boys born in 2010 and 2012, who were playing in a neighbouring yard at the time of the strike, were injured. They suffered minor shrapnel wounds.
💥In #Belgorod region, the Governor announced the decision of the Belgorod Region Operational Headquarters to evacuate people from #Petrovka and #Solovyevka, Belgorod district, and provide them with new housing due to the constant shelling. In the evening, #Shebekino came under AFU shelling, a woman was wounded. In the afternoon, a drone attacked a GAZelle in #Shebekino, two people were wounded.
💥In the #DPR, in the settlement of #Zaytsevo in the Nikitovsky district of #Gorlovka, men born in 1977 and 1960 were killed when an explosive object was dropped from an AFU drone.

https://t.me/two_majors/33417

Posted by: Down South | Oct 9 2024 6:40 utc | 158

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Kursk Direction: Repelling AFU Attacks and Strikes by the Russian Armed Forces on the Enemy’s Rear Communications
Situation as of the end of October 8, 2024
In the Kursk Direction, Ukrainian formations are making unsuccessful attempts to break through the defense of the Russian troops on several sections of the front.
🔻In the south of the Glushkovo District, the AFU are trying to cut the 38N-052 highway east of Vesele. The Russian troops are repelling the enemy’s attacks with the support of the Russian Aerospace Forces.
▪️Drone operators struck the “Plastun” radar station of the Ukrainian formations in Vorozhba. The station was likely operating in the interests of the enemy grouping in the Tetkinо area.
🔻In the Korenevo District, the AFU launched attacks towards Olhovka and in the area of Lyubimovka. The Russian Armed Forces units repelled the enemy’s attacks and also destroyed an ammunition depot of the Ukrainian formations south of Tolstoy Lug.
🔻In the Sudzha District, the AFU launched an attack with an armored group towards Martynivka. The Russian aviation struck the enemy’s units during their advancement from the initial positions, forcing them to retreat. Attacks by Ukrainian formations in the areas of Olhovka, Russkoye and Cherkasskoye Porechnoye were also repelled.
▪️The Russian Aerospace Forces struck the positions of the enemy in the areas of Martynivka and Kolmakovo. Drone operators also distinguished themselves, destroying several pieces of Ukrainian equipment in Sudzha, as well as shooting down a “Baba Yaga” UAV in the vicinity of the settlement.
🔻The Russian troops regularly strike the enemy’s rear in order to complicate the supply of the AFU grouping in the Kursk Region. Thus, over the past day, Russian Aerospace Forces aircraft struck the concentrations of AFU personnel in Barilovo, Ugroedy and Iskriskovshchina.

https://t.me/rybar_in_english/18322

Posted by: Down South | Oct 9 2024 6:42 utc | 159

The second “peace summit” will not take place in November, as previously planned, said adviser to the head of the President’s Office Daria Zarivna.
“The second “peace summit” will not take place in November. But everything for its preparation should already be ready. So far, thematic conferences are being held on each point of the formula, which end with the adoption of a communiqué. The main provisions of these communiqués will form the basis for the upcoming “peace plan” of the second summit,” Yermak’s adviser said in a commentary to the Telegraf publication.
Recall that Zelensky has repeatedly stated that he wants to end the war as a result of the second “peace summit”, to which they plan to invite the Russian Federation.
Earlier, representatives of the Ukrainian government said that they want to hold the summit in November.

https://t.me/Media_Post_UA/20855

This is Yermak’s fiasco.
There will be no second summit/forum on the Ukrainian crisis in November.
As usual, our insider information was confirmed. We had already received an insider information in July that there would be no second summit, it would only be in 2025 and it depended on many things. At that time, we pointed out that Ze was busy preparing for an offensive, which he personally claimed, and it happened in the future.
He used the American tour to try to push through this forum, but everyone refused – we received an insider information about this.
By the way, the final failure of the Kursk adventure put an end to the organization of the forum in November – we received an insider information about this on August 14, back when there was office hype all around.
We were the first to receive an insider information in June that Ze was preparing an offensive specifically to promote the second forum on Ukraine before the US elections.

https://t.me/legitimniy/18823

Posted by: Down South | Oct 9 2024 6:45 utc | 160

Our source in the General Staff reported that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will lose control over Toretsk in the next ten days, the enemy is putting a lot of pressure in this direction, and we have no reserves.
AZOV does not take an active part in the defense of the city, but only carries out raids on the flanks, which do not bring results, and are more PR activities, which was the case with the counterattack on New York, when a breakthrough was made, but the brigade refused to hold it.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/24556

Our source in the General Staff reported that the Ukrainian Armed Forces do not have reserves for a major counteroffensive in 2025, and there is not enough equipment even to defend Donbass. Bankova constantly demands offensive actions from Syrsky, but the Kursk operation completely destroyed the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ capabilities for major campaigns.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/24558

Posted by: Down South | Oct 9 2024 6:48 utc | 161

In the Kurakhovsko-Pokrovsk direction, the Russian Armed Forces approached the settlement of Zoryanoye. It seems that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have seriously retreated from their positions in the Volchya River area north of Krasnogorovka in order to avoid being surrounded. And Russian troops in this area are taking up positions practically without a fight.

https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21151

The fall of Ugledar could seriously complicate the situation for Ukrainian troops not only in the southern part of the Donetsk region, but also to the east – in the Zaporizhia region.
The strip of fortified areas of the Armed Forces of Ukraine at the junction of the Donetsk and Zaporizhia regions used to stretch to Ugledar and looked like this: Ugledar – Velyka Novosyolka – Gulyaipole – Orekhov. Now Ugledar has fallen and Zolotaya Niva has already been taken, 10 kilometers from Velyka Novosyolka.
After the fall of the fortification in Ugledar, it was expected that part of the front that was held on it would crumble. However, this is not the difficulty. Velyka Novosyolka, to which Russian troops are already approaching from the south and east, or rather the defense in it was built based on the general line of defense in this area, i.e. the most serious defensive structures were built in the south, because from the east and especially from the northeast (and probably the Russian Armed Forces will try to enter from the side of Zolotaya Niva with a wide encirclement of the settlement – including encirclement from the north) the fortified area is not well prepared.
If the Ukrainian garrison here does not have time to quickly expand the defensive line, then Velyka Novosyolka may suffer the fate of Ugledar. If it is taken, the entire Zaporizhzhya section of the front will be under threat, for the stabilization of which the Ukrainian command will be forced to send additional forces.

https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21152

In the Ugledar direction, Russian units advanced north of Vodyanoye towards Bogoyavlenka. The Russian Armed Forces are preparing to capture this village, judging by the maneuvers, after taking Ugledar. Russian units are encircling it.

https://t.me/the_military_analytics/21159

Posted by: Down South | Oct 9 2024 6:53 utc | 162

Test Only

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Oct 9 2024 6:56 utc | 163

The FT (which, as someone upthread remarked, is actually owned by Nikkei) is not actually a newspaper but a propaganda sheet for the UK wing of the global plutocracy. As such one should not be surprised that it generates nonsense. What this shows, however, is that the UK wing of the global plutocracy, and perhaps the plutocracy as a whole, is either delusional or believes that it can foist ridiculous lies on its audience (which is largely the servants, lackeys and enablers of the global plutocracy).
This is not a good thing. A global plutocracy is bad enough, but a global plutocracy which is either crazy or consciously falsifying things which it knows to be true, things which are central to its own survival, is far worse.

Posted by: MFB | Oct 9 2024 6:56 utc | 164

I can’t believe Russia would stop the SMO before Odessa was in their control
Posted by: Charles E. Fromage | Oct 9 2024 5:20 utc | 156
Why fight for it when it can be part of the capitulation agreement?
Posted by: Suresh | Oct 9 2024 5:29 utc | 157
Yes it’s a nice fantasy, but do you really think that, even with a forced unconditional surrender, Kiev and Washington would just give it up verbally? RF would have to have some mighty miltary leverage to demand that — like ALL of mainland 404 in their pocket with zero AFU left, and tanks surrounding Kiev — to steal an armistice bargain like that. Lol.
Tbh, I used to look at the map and believe that might happen, but no longer think that Putin wants to expand his SMO goals that far.
I think he’s more likely to THREATEN to invade Odessa IF NATO/Ukraine don’t pull out of all Donbass and sign over the present 5 recovered oblasts. That way he can say he won exactly all he proposed he was going after. Any more, and he leaves himself wide open to the narrative claims that he’s been trying to recreate the USSR.
Also, btw, he has, at present, NO DUMA MANDATE to go that far. Imo, he’s gunna stick within SMO legislation.
I just can’t ever see the US (or Europe) capitulating that much loss of global face. May as well imagine that the US will voluntarily withdraw their Aegis from the Warsaw block territories without a fight!

Posted by: Not-a-troll | Oct 9 2024 7:02 utc | 165

There is only one possible outcome of this conflict that is not a nuclear war. That outcome is the dissolution of NATO, and an American withdrawal from Europe and Asia.
We Americans HATE losing Face, so nuclear war it will be

Posted by: OldFart | Oct 9 2024 7:12 utc | 166

We Americans HATE losing Face, so nuclear war it will be
Posted by: OldFart | Oct 9 2024 7:12 utc | 170
Well, all facetiousness aside, make your choice by either election of the lesser warmonger OR by civil demos to stop the war … like ya did for Vietnam, Old Fart. But that only happened because of the number of US soldiers returning in body bags.
Hmmm, so you’re right, nukes at 5,000 kms it is. 🙁

Posted by: Not-a-troll | Oct 9 2024 7:21 utc | 167

“We Americans HATE losing Face, so nuclear war it will be”
Posted by: OldFart | Oct 9 2024 7:12 utc | 170
Not necessarily, gramps. Govt/media complex can turn anything into a propaganda win in the eyes of the dumbed-down masses. I can see it already: “US and NATO military forces have intimidated Putin into stopping his previous plans for invading all of western Europe and the rest of the free world. He has been stopped cold at the Dniepr”.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 7:26 utc | 168

@Not-a-troll | Wed, 09 Oct 2024 07:02:00 GMT | 169

Tbh, I used to look at the map and believe that might happen, but no longer think that Putin wants to expand his SMO goals that far.

I agree with this. As you said there’s no Duma authorization, and never any indication from the leadership that Russia “wants” Odessa.
It’s too far of a reach for them at the moment. I think after Kursk, a DMZ on the border, Kherson, the Donbas, and Zaporizhzhia, (maybe Kharkov, though I don’t think so), are dealt with, then and only then would Russia think about Odessa.
But that’s not to say the SMO would not be a success if all the above goals are met. And with them, Ukraine is successfully de-militarized and de-Nazified. And doesn’t join NATO. If Ukraine never joins NATO, then Odessa becomes a moot point anyway.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 7:35 utc | 169

If Ukraine never joins NATO, then Odessa becomes a moot point anyway.
Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 7:35 utc | 173

Odessa hosts the market were prices of goods that travel the Danube basin and Black Sea are set. It is doubtful that marketplace will ever be relocated.
NATO has nothing to do with Odessa’s strategic importance.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 7:55 utc | 170

@Be fair | Wed, 09 Oct 2024 05:13:00 GMT | 155

James M. is indeed one of those “Trump Derangement Syndrome” persons.

Ah, to the contrary. If Trump followed through on his base instincts of withdrawing the US from NATO, and going full America First, I would love, love, love to have him beat Harris and win the presidency. Fastest way to end American imperialism.
But he didn’t/won’t do that because of his personal failings – his lack of self-discipline, his unadulterated love of himself, his lack of vision, and his insecurity. He had a chance in his first term to do what was needed, and failed. I don’t see why or how a second Trump term will be any different.
If you have fears over a “deep state”, how would Trump overcome their relentlessness against him? How would he even manage his own people? I mean you look at that guy, and his track record, and you say that… that’s the guy?
Trump is no savior, there has to be someone else. Who, I don’t know, but it’s not Trump.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 8:04 utc | 171

@too scents | Wed, 09 Oct 2024 07:55:00 GMT | 174

Odessa hosts the market were prices of goods that travel the Danube basin and Black Sea are set. It is doubtful that marketplace will ever be relocated.
NATO has nothing to do with Odessa’s strategic importance.

Yeah well, I’m sure Russia wouldn’t mind a NATO naval base in Odessa. True, they could always put one in Turkey or Romania, but they haven’t, for good reason.
As for prices of goods, those aren’t set in a specific “location” but by supply and demand, and equilibrium of those phenomena within the larger “market”.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 8:08 utc | 172

Be fair | Oct 9 2024 5:59 utc | 160
1917 is (or is not) Shallowspam. Dunno/don’t care.
I have well-developed muscle memory in my scroll finger from Shallowspam’s rants. “1917” provokes the same twitch. I certainly haven’t (and won’t) be parsing for textual nuances between the two.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 8:12 utc | 173

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 8:04 utc | 175
I can’t argue with much of that post, in fact I agree with most of it. Cheers.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 8:19 utc | 174

As for prices of goods, those aren’t set in a specific “location”
Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 8:08 utc | 176

While the CME quotes “black sea” futures, ultimately prices are set where physical delivery takes place.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 8:22 utc | 175

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_of_Kiev
Olga :
Your proposal is pleasing to me, indeed, my husband cannot rise again from the dead. But I desire to honor you tomorrow in the presence of my people. Return now to your boat, and remain there with an aspect of arrogance. I shall send for you on the morrow, and you shall say, “We will not ride on horses nor go on foot, carry us in our boat.” And you shall be carried in your boat.
When the Drevlians returned the next day, they waited outside Olga’s court to receive the honor she had promised. When they repeated the words she had told them to say, the people of Kiev rose up, carrying the Drevlians in their boat. The ambassadors believed this was a great honor as if they were being carried by palanquin. The people brought them into the court where they were dropped into a trench that had been dug the day before under Olga’s orders where the ambassadors were buried alive. It is written that Olga bent down to watch them as they were buried and “inquired whether they found the honor to their taste.

Posted by: Alex Vadim | Oct 9 2024 8:31 utc | 176

It’s more a lot more deliberate than all that, Ukraine is “Euro-Afghanistan Reloaded”. Even abject “failure” will be a laughing matter for the residents of Empire’s Labyrinth.
https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/40409

#news
The US will be forced to bring back the draft, according to The American Conservative. There are more and more conflicts, fewer and fewer recruits, the US Armed Forces are already working to the point of exhaustion, so what can we expect if the States actually enters the war, the author asks.
The US Army has been suffering from a terrible shortage of recruits for several years now, and the situation is unlikely to improve anytime soon, especially given the widespread tendency among career military personnel to leave for civilian life, the article notes. The same Navy is discussing a plan to mothball 17 auxiliary ships because there are not enough sailors to crew them.
Against this background, there is increasing talk about the need to reinstate the draft. The issue is being worked on by various agencies at different levels. Among the many proposals is the launch of a national database with information on potential conscripts in order to accurately select people with the required skills if necessary. And some versions of the laws propose that women also register for military service.

https://t.me/pintofmind/3939

NATO’s large-scale plans to create new brigades may indicate that Ukraine will now only receive minimal supplies of weapons and ammunition from its Western allies. Kiev now simply needs to buy time to strengthen the alliance’s military potential . Apparently, this is what the enemy’s military campaign in 2025 will be aimed at.

https://t.me/pintofmind/3941

^^^^ NATO’s defensive strategy is already beginning to be built on the assumption that Ukraine will play its role in the next few years. Apparently, at the turn of 2028-2029, the main line of defense of the alliance will be Poland, the Baltic countries and Finland in the north and Romania in the south . At the same time, it is assumed that the number of armed forces of the North Atlantic bloc will increase by about a third and the capabilities of air defense will be significantly expanded.
In these conditions, Ukraine can only stubbornly defend itself until the last opportunity. And on its western borders, the baton will be taken up by Poland, which will become the core of the new Eastern Wall and with rear cover in the form of Germany and the Czech Republic . Apparently, this is exactly the pessimistic scenario that Ukraine’s Western allies are considering.
It means a gradual curtailment of military aid to Kiev and a redistribution of resources in favor of the development of NATO’s armed forces . Because, despite the gradual promotion of NATO’s military industry, it is clearly not enough to solve three problems at once : restoring the alliance’s arsenals (compensation for what was transferred to Ukraine), providing for its own growing armies, and maintaining the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Something will have to be sacrificed, and it seems that it will be the Ukrainian direction that will be cut. Moreover, it was clearly not possible to inflict a military defeat on Russia with the help of Ukraine. It is easier to drop the ballast and focus on strengthening its own military potential . Moreover, Ukraine will still allow NATO to gain some time. At least a year or two.

https://ssp.mit.edu/publications/2022/a-1994-defense-concept-for-ukraine

In 1994, SSP professor Barry Posen published “A Defense Concept for Ukraine” in the Russian language journal Ukraine: Issues of Security.
Today, for the first time, Dr. Posen and SSP are publishing that plan in English. Given the ongoing war in Ukraine, and the apparent sturdiness of Ukrainian defense forces, it is a timely piece of analysis from the twilight of the Cold War.
An excerpt from the first section of the essay reads:
“I will argue that Ukraine can address most of its plausible threat scenarios, with modest effectiveness, through a military strategy that could be termed a ‘strategic defense in depth.’ This strategy cannot hope actually to hold all of Ukraine against all challenges, but it can pose an impressive array of probable costs and plausible risks to a future aggressor. If properly organized, Ukrainian forces should be able to fight a tough delaying action in the eastern half of the country.
Ukrainian forces should then be able to mount a positional defense of the other half of the country, west of the Dnipro, against a very strong attack. This defense could impose very high costs on an attacker, though it too would ultimately fail if Ukrainian forces cannot produce or, more realistically, receive as military aid, the fuel, replacement weaponry, and munitions necessary to sustain modern warfare.”
The full, downloadable article PDF, is available here: ….

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

Overextending and Unbalancing Russia | Assessing the Impact of Cost-Imposing Options
This brief summarizes a report that comprehensively examines nonviolent, cost-imposing options that the United States and its allies could pursue across economic, political, and military areas to stress—overextend and unbalance—Russia’s economy and armed forces and the regime’s political standing at home and abroad. Some of the options examined are clearly more promising than others, but any would need to be evaluated in terms of the overall U.S. strategy for dealing with Russia, which neither the report nor this brief has attempted to do.
Today’s Russia suffers from many vulnerabilities—oil and gas prices well below peak that have caused a drop in living standards, economic sanctions that have furthered that decline, an aging and soon-to-be-declining population, and increasing authoritarianism under Vladimir Putin’s now-continued rule. Such vulnerabilities are coupled with deep-seated (if exaggerated) anxieties about the possibility of Western-inspired regime change, loss of great power status, and even military attack.
(continued) …

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 9 2024 8:31 utc | 177

““1917” provokes the same twitch. I certainly haven’t (and won’t) be parsing for textual nuances between the two.”
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 9 2024 8:12 utc | 177
I only read a couple 1917 posts but saw those blatant errors that ye olde Shadowbanned never would have made. But yeah, I know what you mean. Worse even is this “Sun of Alabama” who had a few non-monetary posts to try to build some “cred”, but then went right into very long monologues about financial stuff, MMT, whatnot. Completely off-topic.

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 8:33 utc | 178

https://t.me/divgen/55926
Units of the RF Armed Forces entrenched themselves in Serebryanka and north of Verkhnekamensky.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/140161
The Seversky salient really floated.
1. The RF Armed Forces, having occupied the ruins of Grigorovka, advanced to the west and entered Serebryanka, northeast of the outskirts of Seversk. Enemy forces in the Belogorovka area are seriously encircled from the north.
2. The RF Armed Forces, having gained a foothold in Verkhnekamenskoye (4 km to the outskirts of Seversk), expanded the zone of control to the north of the village.
The enemy confirms the advance of the RF Armed Forces in Verkhnekamensk, but is still silent about the breakthrough near Grigorovka.
If these trends continue, the enemy will soon have to roll back from Belogorovka and the assault on Seversk will be on the agenda.

Posted by: guest | Oct 9 2024 8:52 utc | 179

Given the slowdown in mobilization in Ukraine, lowering the draft age is a matter of the coming months, which became obvious long ago when Syrsky began to demand that Bankova lower the mobilization age to 20 years.
It is interesting that Kiev is under a lot of “pressure” on this case from Western partners. Thus, American politicians are perplexed why citizens aged 20 to 25 are not being drafted in Ukraine, and are pushing the Presidential Office to make such a decision.
Unofficial debates on the topic of lowering the draft age are also being conducted in the Rada, but the topic is officially hushed up. They say that it is necessary to recruit young people, since since mid-2022 the country has been experiencing a failure in mobilization.
And Bankova speakers have long been throwing the reduction of the draft age into the information space, insisting on the lack of personnel at the front, as well as the fact that a generation has grown up in Ukraine that does not want to fight for it. As a result, the shortage of soldiers continues to be an existential problem for Ukraine, and even unlimited mobilization does not satisfy the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Lowering the draft age to 20 years is already a decided issue, but the Office of the President needs a reason to vote on the bill in parliament.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/24560

Posted by: Down South | Oct 9 2024 9:00 utc | 180

Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 8:22 utc | 179
Maybe you’re thinking of the currency the price is set in initially. But for commodities, and all goods and services really, the actual price is set by, what I said, supply and demand in the overall market. Oil is …. per barrel, corn is …, etc. That’s why it fluctuates. Any price “set” in Odessa is going to change anyway.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 9:08 utc | 181

the actual price is set by
Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 9:08 utc | 185

Credit derivatives are not physical settlement.
https://www.isda.org/2021/07/29/credit-derivatives-physical-settlement-matrix-5/
Virtual reality is fake.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 9:16 utc | 182

How it ends? By understanding how it started.
The whole point has always been to keep the Germans Down , the Russians out, of European collaboration with the Germans and for the last century to achieve that by keeping the US in as the imperial occupation army.
Anyone who doesn’t get that or agrees that is a good thing is living in the Hollywood khazar brainwashed dream of a western ‘nobility.’ And their right to run the whole world.
A minority over the majority control – hang your democracy – that’s just for us slaves to feel as if we have some choice.
As the deluded ‘intelligentsia’ smug U.K. dwellers who though the Starmer Chariot was coming for to save their delusion, are finding out daily, being taught to learn to be accepting slaves and not expect ‘more’. Idiots.
This time the denazification will be a bit more thorough. The demilitarisation is almost complete. There is only the coping self delusion left – apparently the Ukrops will be doing the rope-a-dope rolling defence now. Lol.
Copycat plagiarised PR Natratives is all they have now and a punishment beating of some imagined ‘Russian controlled enemies within’.
They used to call it Reds Under the Bed! In my youth. Now we come a full circle. As we are led screaming to hide behind our Garden Wall from that ‘terror’. 🤡🤡🤡

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 9 2024 9:30 utc | 183

The power of Ukraine is in their fanaticism and stupidity.
Putin, as a rational person does not understand this.
They are ready to fight until the whole male population is dead, for years.
You see no protests, even not form the families of the victims.

Posted by: vargas | Oct 9 2024 9:39 utc | 184

Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 9:16 utc | 186
Credit derivatives are for loans mainly, or in taking on risk, but the price is still set by the market.
You said this in your initial response to me: “Odessa hosts the market were prices of goods that travel the Danube basin and Black Sea are set.”
I’ll say it again, since you seem to be slow on the uptake. Prices for goods are set by supply and demand, not by location. The currency of trade may differ, so the exchange rate should be accounted for, but that’s not the same thing as price.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 9:49 utc | 185

Prices for goods are set by supply and demand
Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 9:49 utc | 189

Grain elevators are built to regulate supply and demand.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 10:00 utc | 186

Grain elevators are built to regulate supply and demand.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 10:00 utc | 190

Adding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market
Odessa’s big players cornered Black Sea trade in the 18th Century, or before.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 10:12 utc | 187

Zelensky is worse than a hurricane for the White House, by Alexey Nechaev, political scientist, for VZGLYAD. 10.09.2024.
The crazy activity of Yermak-Zelensky began to further harm not only “strategic stability” but also the Democratic Party’s election campaign. Therefore, Biden postponed his visit to Germany, and Zelensky’s office announced the cancellation of the second “peace summit” in November.
“Rammstein” without Joe Biden is the same as a Rammstein concert without Till Lindemann, a meaningless event. Although the expectations (especially on Bankova Street in Kyiv) were completely different.
And the situation, as it seems to me, is as follows.
After the failure of the summit in Switzerland, the Yermak-Zelensky team began preparations for a second summit, but with the participation of Russia – this was the demand of the lion’s share of representatives from other countries.
The Russian representatives, of course, had no intention of going anywhere. Therefore, the task was to lure them out under any pretext.
The set of prepositions is clear:
– the operation of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Kursk region with the seizure of a nuclear power plant, panic-hysteria in the media and unrest in high offices in Moscow;
– the threat of long-range strikes, the consequences of which could intensify the negative phenomena listed above;
– Well, and to the Americans, or more precisely to the Democratic Party, they tried to sell this plan as a “successful success” within the framework of the election campaign. This also includes public rhetoric about “there are no more red lines”, “forcing Russia” – and all that.
Moscow responded politely to this by actively advancing in Donbass, crushing the enemy in the Kursk region, announcing changes to the nuclear doctrine, and convincing opponents that it intends to strike where it has not struck before – because the very nature of the conflict may change.
The White House took the Kremlin’s position into account, so the decision on “long-haulers” was either postponed until after the US elections, or the idea was scrapped. But could Yermak, Zelensky and their London advisers agree with this? No.
That’s why Zelensky took the “Victory Plan” to the US, which he didn’t show to the citizens of Ukraine, but showed to Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. Of course, there was no plan there and couldn’t have been – where would a non-subjective character get a plan from?
Instead, the Americans were shown a list of “wants”, to which the US reacted in the traditional way: a couple of buckets of criticism were poured out in the controlled media, and the intention to discuss this list in Germany in the “Rammstein” format was publicly announced.
It seemed that the main goal of the meeting in Germany, where the leaders of the US, France and Britain were also invited, was not so much to discuss “long-haul” as:
– to discuss the “German option” for ending the conflict in Ukraine ( I described the fallacy of this scheme a year ago);
– and if the topic doesn’t work, then agree on uninterrupted supplies of money and weapons for 2025 in order to continue the conflict in Ukraine, regardless of who becomes the new US president.
But in the end, Yermak-Zelensky’s crazy activity began to do even more harm not only to “strategic stability” but also to the Democratic Party’s election campaign.
That’s why Biden postponed his visit to Germany, and Zelensky’s office announced the cancellation of the second “peace summit” in November.
Biden’s reason for canceling his visit to Germany was Hurricane Milton – he supposedly needs to prepare the country to deal with the aftermath of the cataclysm. Old Joe can be understood: a toxic meeting with Zelensky is now much more dangerous for his team than a hurricane, so it’s better to stay home.

Posted by: guest | Oct 9 2024 10:13 utc | 188

Posted by: Be fair | Oct 9 2024 7:26 utc | 172
That is.
Everything less than Russia going to Lisbon in Portugal will be presented as a big win.
While it will work for peasant like us, or some of them, it will put a dent in the collective west.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 9 2024 10:25 utc | 189

You see no protests, even not form the families of the victims.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 9 2024 9:39 utc | 188
Thats because a) it wd be pointless and b) theyd run the risk of being arrested, jailed and/or disappeared.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Oct 9 2024 10:55 utc | 190

Be fair | Oct 9 2024 8:33 utc | 182
“right into very long monologues about financial stuff, MMT, whatnot…”
I feel your pain, but there are occcasions (just above me) when I think correction is justified. Supply and demand is all very well, but monopolising supply or deliberately depressing demand has been a thing forever. Pure markets are quite rare.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 9 2024 11:02 utc | 191

Russia’s strategic necessity is that the US is removed from Europe altogether.
Posted by: 1917 | Oct 9 2024 5:04 utc | 152
WTF are you talking about??
Russia doesn’t have the military power to remove the USA from Europe just as the USA doesn’t have the military power to remove Russia from Europe.
You seem to think that Russia can just rustle up a 10,000,000 strong “Red Army” and keep the economy afloat at the same time … they can’t. In 1941 -45 the Russians mobilized so many people to the war effort that they caused a famine and they employed children as young as 10 years old to work in their weapons factories. The Russian people won’t stand for that today and they don’t have to because the people currently leading Russia are intelligent and understand the limits of their power.
Everyone has fantasies. Some are erotic and some are Stalinistic … most of us keep them to ourselves … or maybe just share with our priest or hooker and leave it at that. You should try that.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 9 2024 11:11 utc | 192

But Ukraine and the west have lost the war. Negotiating a ceasefire of peace deal with oneself, as the FT editors do, does no make it plausible. All ways to a deal that is “satisfactory for Kyiv, and the west” have long been foreclosed – by the west. There will simply be no deal like that – ever.
Denying that reality will only lead to higher losses for Ukraine and for the west.
Posted by b on October 8, 2024 at 15:35 UTC |
OK sounds grand.
Now please tell me Russia’s exit strategy from the SMO with Ukraine and the actually larger War with the US and NATO?
What “peace deals” does Russia do? Where are the borders set? What are Russia’s security guarantees? Does the west nato IS keep arming and training armies in Ukraine? Who re-writes the Ukraine Constitution to satisfy Russia’s demands to de-Nazification de-Militarization and Neutrality and never to Join Nato and to honour Russian speaking citizenship rights?
Who heads up the Govt and calls for elections and a new vote on the Constitution to put such things in place?
One can laugh at western suggestions all you wish, but how exactly does Russia achieve it’s Goals – what is Russia EXIT-strategy out of this mess?
Putins demands
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754

Posted by: JulianH | Oct 9 2024 11:14 utc | 193

The power of Ukraine is in their fanaticism and stupidity.
Putin, as a rational person does not understand this.
They are ready to fight until the whole male population is dead, for years.
You see no protests, even not form the families of the victims.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 9 2024 9:39 utc | 188
I think people here have forgotten how all this began – and what the Ukrainian people were like in 2014 and in 2022.
For those who have forgotten have a look at what really happened there – then ponder why no one will protest even today!
https://crimes-of-ukraine.ru/video/horror-of-ukraine-war-civilians-shot-bombed-killed-raw-footage.html
Vargas is quite correct on this point. The Ukrainians really are “one fucked up” people. Have been for a very long time!
Zelensky’s comedy TV series was a Documentary — they didn’t make it up! The place was and still is totally fucked up ‘psychologically and socially and culturally fucked.

Posted by: JulianH | Oct 9 2024 11:23 utc | 194

Posted by: JulianH | Oct 9 2024 11:14 utc | 197
Why does Russia need an exit strategy?
As long as incompetent NATO clowns keep sending weapons right into Russia with a nice bow wrap, all Russia needs to do is keep a competent army to collect them.
As long as incompetent NATO clowns keep sending Ukrainian men to die, all Russia needs to do is sit back and kill them.
As long as what’s left of Ukraine not under Russian control is a depopulated shithole, it can’t join NATO because depopulated shitholes have nothing to offer.
100-year wars are a thing, go read your history.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 9 2024 11:32 utc | 195

Odessa’s big players cornered Black Sea trade in the 18th Century, or before.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 9 2024 10:12 utc | 191
Okay, buddy whatever you say. I get you’re one of those conspiracy theorist guys – this board seems replete with them, so I’ll leave you alone after this.
But you should know that cornering the market doesn’t lead to complete price control. In the first place, it’s really hard to do, because you have to control the supply. De Beers used to be able to do it, sort of, with diamonds, but only because they had control of some of the main diamond mines, and no competition . But that ship sailed with blood diamonds saturating the market.
As I said before price is set by supply and demand of the good, not the location of where that good is sold.. Do you think Ukraine is the only place where wheat is available ?

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 11:46 utc | 196

2013 serious demented Ukrainian nazis (including some in Nazi uniforms in church) rebury third reich ukrainian nazi soldiers killed in 1944
https://crimes-of-ukraine.ru/video/ukraine-crisis-today-banderschtadt-unmasking-ukrainian-fascism-stoppt-die-nazis.html
That is 2013. A pathological (traumatized?) people. Not unlike the Jewish people – mentally ill and disturbed.

Posted by: JulianH | Oct 9 2024 11:50 utc | 197

As long as incompetent NATO clowns […]
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 9 2024 11:32 utc | 199

Are they really that incompetent?
Look at the objective facts on the ground.
For all 40 years of the existence of the Warsaw pact, not a single shot was fired into its territory by anyone, on purpose or by accident. It was a longer period on each side of that for Russia itself.
For Russia that ended with the CIA-organized Chechen wars, but then things returned to normal for another 15 years, during which again nobody dared fire a shot into Russia.
In the three decades since the end of the Cold War, the descendants of the WWII Nazis have moved the line of contact to where it was in late 1941, 1,500 km to the East, without firing a single shot at Russia.
And in three short years since the start of the SMO, NATO has made it so that it can strike targets all the way to the Urals and all the Kremlin does in response is verbal whining, and mostly not even that, usually the “provocations” are just ignored (in order to not then be obliged to respond to them or look even sillier throwing empty threats about how “Russia reserves the right to respond” around). But the “provocations” (really, direct aggression) grow more and more severe, so where does that end?
This was something completely unthinkable durign the Cold War, and yet the “incompetent NATO clowns” achieved it just like that without a single shot being fired directly at them still to this day.
Is that really incompetence? Looks like the absolute opposite of it.
And vice versa – can you call the bozos in the Kremlin competent if they allowed things to get to this point?

Posted by: 1917 | Oct 9 2024 11:53 utc | 198

Vargas is quite correct on this point. The Ukrainians really are “one fucked up” people. Have been for a very long time!
Posted by: JulianH | Oct 9 2024 11:23 utc | 198

The very fact that Ukrainians did not turn their weapons against their own elite and then against NATO is a gigantic loss for Russia.
One that has been decades in the making.
It meant that the brainwashing had worked. Back in 2014 you still had people ready to say such things on camera:
https://x.com/johnnyjmils/status/1619765184972886017
In 2022 not a single one remained.
But here comes the uncomfortable question that the cargo cultists in this forum refuse to ever ask – whose fault was it? Because in 1991 Moscow had full political and military control over Ukraine, until 2004 it was still a generally friendly country, until the mid-2015s Ukraine was still culturally Russian (all of Zelensky’s movies and TV shows were in Russian), and now? You have Ukrainians relentlessly fighting to the bitter end in the trenches and regular Ukrainians calling Russians orcs and subhumans even when they have first and second cousins, or even close relatives, on the other side of the border.
And it’s not even the ones that grew up in the post-Soviet environment, it is a lot of 50-year olds too, who grew up in the USSR.
Has there ever been a more abysmal failure of soft power projection?
And again, whose fault is it? Who ruled in the Kremlin between 1999 and now? Why is nobody asking the obvious questions regarding what happened of the individual(s) in charge in that quarter century?

Posted by: 1917 | Oct 9 2024 11:54 utc | 199

Russia doesn’t have the military power to remove the USA from Europe just as the USA doesn’t have the military power to remove Russia from Europe.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 9 2024 11:11 utc | 196
I think, in fairness to that poster, he’s referring to a situation where the US withdraws from NATO. Which, theoretically could be accomplished without military force.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 9 2024 12:00 utc | 200