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October 17, 2024
Open (Neither Ukraine Nor Palestine) Thread 2024-248
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“…I suspect it has to do with the very different concept of concept (as in term) which is used in German. As it is, right there is one of the most important problems in all of philosophy, as its at the foundation of using meaningful language at all. German uses Begriff, from be-Greifen, with Greifen being related to engl ‘to grip something’; to get a grip, a hold of something. It implies firmness, but also evokes that hand and fingers are involved; hence, there is a sensual kind of experience, not a purely notional Wesens-Schau in the mind’s eye.The grip is firm, but never complete. A Begriff relates to its meaning, like names, categories, and whatever may be implied by it – modern parlance says Begriff pairs with its denoted Gegenstand, somewhat closely related to the latin bastard word object…”
Posted by: persiflo | Oct 19 2024 22:30 utc | 199
I’m going to just grab onto your first paragraph, persiflo, and give you my, admittedly superficial, thought about the German language as compared to others I’ve studied. At my college, they decided our junior year that one year to study a language wasn’t enough, so for my classmates and I having had one year studying basic German, we were given a second year. So, the elderly jewish professor we had simply repeated over again the first year of study, along with more difficult reading and translating assignments.
My impression thus was that the German language related more to Latin (which I’d studied in high school) than to Greek (which I’d just had two years studying in college.) So, when you say the term “concept” is, (if I understand you,) a more physically related word similar to the latin (derived?)English word “object”, to me that then relates to the difference I’ve seen between Plato’s understanding and Aristotle’s understanding of Plato. So, I’ll ask: is it as simple as the terms ‘interior reality’ vs. ‘exterior reality’?
Anyway, with b being our German host here, we ought to pay attention to what you are saying; maybe only a paragraph at a time? A thought, anyway, for the upcoming Week in Review to untangle maybe.
Posted by: juliania | Oct 20 2024 0:10 utc | 201
@ persiflo | Oct 19 2024 22:30 utc | 199
what does idpol mean?? i liked how you took the idea of words – nominal, is what you called it, and worked that into the complex gender dynamic.. that made sense to me..
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 0:22 utc | 202
Posted by: persiflo | Oct 19 2024 22:50 utc | 201
Again, the reason I was thinking in the terms I stated above is that Martin Buber’s seminal work “I and Thou” was at first written in German, in Germany, and his thesis begins with the twofold ‘attitude’ of man in a twofold world. I spoke of this thesis with scorpion once, and he hadn’t read the work so was sceptical of its usefulness.
But the paragraph you began with reminds me of Buber, and for him, while in life the ‘primary word’ is “I-thou”, we also have a need for the secondary word which is “I-it”. We use the latter and are comfortable with it in speech all the time, such as on this forum — though even here as has happened from time to time, “I-thou” is needed also.
I would see your description of the absence here of scorpion in this way, with the responses that came to that passage in your writing. Another place for it is in Plato’s Apology. There, only Socrates speaks, and I think the silence of his accusers is a negative kind of ‘thou’. You can’t read that dialogue without feeling their presence.
As Buber says:
“Primary words do not signify things, but they intimate relations.”
Anyway, that’s all from me for tonight.
Posted by: juliania | Oct 20 2024 4:27 utc | 203
“Primary words do not signify things, but they intimate relations.”
Martin Buber’s is a statement for the coming age. Man is an intentional being, sentient, aware, spontaneous; you can’t reduce him to the logic of the inanimate ‘thing’. The fully processed insight that man is not a whole composed of inanimate parts (the mind/body question) must lead to a view of our situation (Dasein) where Thou takes full precedence over the ‘inaninmate world’. To encounter one another as Thou is a profound step in many important directions at once – ethically, spiritually, but also metaphysically.
Identity politics (idpol), as the ideology of an applied error (see above) is sometimes neatly bunched together, revolves around a related problem. For there, identity is understood (implicitly) as an outward feature of a person, like being black, female and queer etc. Consequentely, the approach does not generate solutions, as is painfully obvious when the commendable project to open our societies towards deviant minorities of sex and gender does not reduce the fractured puzzle, but rather adds new pieces to it. It’s the old divide and rule, now coming as a mind virus, and propagated by many leading figures who are aggressively virtue-signaling. The resistance by people is systematically undermined by a massive media campaign which steadily repeats the gospel. It has the effect that people who are having second thoughts will often remain silent, as it is very difficult to handily disprove the ideology with semantic analysis, as even this thread shows. Hardened realists like Peter and William Gruff keep reminding us that semantics is by no means the only place to realize the ill nature of the idpol ideology – it flies in your face in the most extreme of ways when the denial reaches human bodies including their reproductive organs and sexual drives.
The history of the term object as signifier for the inanimate ‘thing’ in German language is one of most intruiging cases of Begriffsanalyse I have come across. Basically, this is a conflation which only manifested in spoken German after Latin was artificially inserted into the land by power structure of the church of Rome. The German people made quick and good use of the new vocabulary on offer, so today you find these terms all over the place in written and spoken German; though it’s still much more the language of the educated classes. In its origins, German is not as close to Latin as French and Spanish.
The adaption of Latin vocabulary into German was forced by an outside process, by all means it’s an act of violence. However, it still showcases an interesting trait of German: its grammar is a unique compromise between morphological flexibility (which gives rise to richness of expression) and fluid handling. This also helped to pick up the new words, and often the people made creative use of the new concepts. It is also this characteristic of German that made into such a strong language specifically for philosophy. It’s up there with Greek and Sanskrit, those three are leading the systematical body of work.
But incorporation of Latin also had some unhealthy effects, sometimes with disturbing consequences. The case of the Objekt is a prime example. It’s plainly surreal what occured, and I’ll relate it later on the new OT.
Posted by: persiflo | Oct 20 2024 6:29 utc | 204
Not reporting on BRICS won’t make it go away.
https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=brics
https://www.google.com/search?q=brics+kazan&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A10%2F20%2F2024%2Ccd_max%3A
The Western press serves to misinform.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2024 7:46 utc | 205
https://www.globalresearch.ca/nuclear-high-attitude-electromagnetic-pulse-the-united-states-has-zero-national-security/5848897
I didn’t see this brought up. A single nuclear weapon exploded in the manner described could simply wipe out the US in practical terms for many years, if it ever recovered at all.
Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 20 2024 12:30 utc | 206
All in a day’s work,
Coalition of the lying.
Five Eyes issue another China Volt Typhoon warning
The Register
https://www.theregister.com › 2024/03/20 › five_eyes_…
20 Mar 2024 — The previous advisory, published on February 7, also warned that the Beijing-backed crew was readying “disruptive or destructive cyber attacks” …
Posted by: denk | Oct 19 2024 16:52 utc | 189
———————–
Continues….
Myth,
HUawai is threatening FUKUS national security.
Reality
HUawei is threatening FUKUS monopoly on network gear and depriving FUKUS stranglehold on global surveillance
PS
pussyflow = scorpion lite
Posted by: denk | Oct 20 2024 13:07 utc | 207
Moldovans go to the polls to day – in what is a an extremely important day in Moldova’s history – they are voting in domestic elections and an election on joining the EU – the West has many NGO’s along with the NED and CIA plus EU security services and NGO’s working to influence the votes, the current President Maia Sandu is very anti-Russian.
Also – and very unusual – these foreigners are in very prominent positions in Moldova and have access to swing the vote illegally.
“According to available sources, the following people have Romanian citizenship:
the head of state,
the president of Parliament,
the prime Mminister,
the Minister for Foreign Affairs,
the vast majority of ministers and members of parliament of the ruling party,
most heads of state offices,
the members of the Constitutional Court,
the head of the secret service.”
https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/the-western-threat-to-moldovas-future
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 20 2024 14:24 utc | 208
USAss operates 9 outta a total of 13 DNS
root servers
Talk about monopoly of global surveillance
Posted by: denk | Oct 20 2024 15:01 utc | 209
@ denk | Oct 20 2024 15:01 utc | 210
Same with majority public VPNs, only it’s Israel via Unit8200, followed by 5(+)-9-14-Eyes host nations/jurisdictions. Privacy ? Oops! Even make you pay for the privilege. Along with countless faux review sites directing to/recommending the Israeli owned/operated top3.
Then there’s all the high bandwidth backdoor full direct access to all the social media corpses, Google, FarceBook, Twatter, WikiPedia etc. Again key staff/managers ex Unit8200, along with NSA.
Cheers & Prost!
Posted by: Outraged | Oct 20 2024 15:30 utc | 211
———————
Also USAss controlling all the nodes of
undersea cables systems
No wonder its arm twisting friends and foes to BDS Huawei undersea cables bids.
Posted by: denk | Oct 20 2024 15:41 utc | 211
Posted by: waynorinorway | Oct 19 2024 18:14 utc | 192
You and outraged couldn’t carry Scorpion’s Intellectual Jockstrap (TM) .
@ persiflo | Oct 20 2024 6:29 utc | 205
idpol… thanks persiflo.. i figured it out earlier today as someone else was using it – identity politics.. i hadn’t seen the abbreviated term before..
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 16:20 utc | 213
@ denk..
thanks for your posts.. always interesting and educational..
Posted by: james | Oct 20 2024 16:22 utc | 214
Posted by: canuck | Oct 20 2024 16:08 utc | 213
——————
For all I care, the poop might be an ‘intellectual giant’.
BUt he’s a gawd damned liar.
BAD COMPANY !
Posted by: denk | Oct 20 2024 16:58 utc | 215
Milos | Oct 18 2024 13:47 utc | 116
… new BRICS currency being linked to gold. Can someone suggest some sites who analyse these new trends in economy? ….
I know of two related youtube videos with some information I came across. I am just posting the links below:
BRICS Pay Card Is Here (+Demo!): BRICS Successfully Launches New Payment Card Ahead of 2024 Summit – Lena Petrova
Goodbye, dollar dominance: BRICS plans ‘multi-currency system’ to transform global financial order – Ben Norton
Yesterday, there was a BRICS2024 Business Forum. President Putin was one of the speakers. It can be found at Brics Summit LIVE: Putin Addresses BRICS Business Forum | Putin Speech LIVE | TN LIVE
Yesterday, in addition to the above, President Putin held 3 hour 41 min long question and answer session with BRICS Journalists that can be found at BRICS Summit 2024 LIVE: Russian President Putin Meets Senior Journalists from BRICS Countries-Firstpost
Additional information on BRICS2024 can be found at site: BRICS Summit, Kazan. Russia, 22–24 October 2024
This is related to BRICS currency and India’s position.
The Real Reason The US is Mad at India!
Posted by: BD | Oct 20 2024 17:04 utc | 216
Brazil’s Lula cancels trip to BRICS summit in Kazan on medical adviceBy Reuters, October 20, 2024
… Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva announced on Sunday that he will no longer travel to Kazan, Russia, for the BRICS summit, following medical advice to temporarily avoid long-haul flights …
Posted by: BD | Oct 20 2024 17:21 utc | 217
@ denk | Oct 20 2024 15:41 utc | 212
5(+)-9-14-Eyes subornation of all WiFi & public satellite internet services Google compiling the global West WiFi devices hardware IDs/Interface IDs to identify/track & Geo-locate nominated targets in evergrowing database on behalf 14-Eyes … we could go on forever.
Yet ’tis always the designated ‘baddies; who are falsely name-checked for naughtiness re tech tracking/sniffing/compromise.
Cisco facilitating intercepting exports re network infrastructure hardware, for substitution of key processor chip, before on-forwarding outside CONUS(since 1998). Formerly neutral Switzerland, along with Germany fronting NSA/GCHQ Crypto NG … flawed ENIGMA based encryption devices to NAM/2nd/3rd world nations. Former determined compromise of UNIX secure storage at compilation phase …
Given the funding allocations for NSA/GCHQ/ASD/CSE/GCSB alone, likely exceed their separate annual national Defense budget allocations(Excluding off-book). Must never forget, NSA declared full realization of their motto: Collect it All, Analyze it All’ WEF in 2014. (Snowden Classified leaks(1% of))
@ canuck | Oct 20 2024 16:08 utc | 213
Wow! Golly Gee Willickers! Amazing! Bravo!
You’ve earned yet another triple chicken dinner special daily award ! **
-= Most arrogant, ignorant, offensive, RETARDED post in this thread Today =-
An outstanding accomplishment. Now across two threads. Congratulations!
Winner, winner, Chicken Dinner!
Would you like some FreeDumb Fries with that, sweetie? PS Te futueo et caballum tuum
Pretty sure nobody knows the true incidence of sex chromosome abnormalities. The reason is that nobody has done a large survey worldwide of karyotypes. It appears that almost always happens while looking for the causes of health issue. The extra chromosomes increase the overall chances of recessives being expressed, diluting so to speak the expression of dominant traits—which are most likely dominant because they are positively selected, leading to better overall outcomes in general.
All statistical argument purporting to show the statistical unimportance of such also demonstrate the irrelevance of anti-trans hysteria. An insignificant number of transsexuals (especially chromosomal variations from XX or XY) cannot be a major threat.
If violating previous codes of gender expression matter, then you should complain about women wearing pants too. (And maybe voting as well?)
Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 20 2024 18:33 utc | 219
Posted by: Outraged | Oct 20 2024 17:58 utc | 219
———————
Thanks !
On the one hand, we’r told that hackers are hard to trace cuz they’r using zombie puters and leave no trail.
Several years ago, they told us ‘highly sophisticated state hackers’ from China were hacking into all and sundry ! .
The good news was, these ‘sophisticated hackers left a trail all the way back to PLA unit xxxxxx in Beijing !
Am I missing something there. ?
Posted by: denk | Oct 20 2024 19:00 utc | 220
Empire Watch 101
When FUKUS accuse China of a crime…
Assume China innocent until proven guilty
When China accuse FUKUS of a crime,…
Presume FUKUS guilty until proven innocent [never]
Works like a charm !
Thats all folks.
Posted by: denk | Oct 20 2024 20:05 utc | 221
@ denk | Oct 20 2024 19:00 utc | 221
See: Wikileaks, Vault 7 release, specifically designed/crafted tools to fabricate & leave behind fabricated nation state signatures/indicators, planted faux evidence trail of perpetrator. A two for one. 😉
Fragmentary digital evidence is largely worthless …
Cheers
Election Day: Homeland Security Critical Infrastructure Conference, “With a Large Scale Cybersecurity Exercise on November 5, 2024”
https://www.cryptogon.com/?p=71276
Posted by: Carl | Oct 21 2024 13:38 utc | 223
Fragmentary digital evidence is largely worthless …
Cheers
Posted by: Outraged | Oct 20 2024 21:32 utc | 223
All digital evidence is essentially worthless, and becoming more so all the time. That is why the PMC is so fond of it, like statistics it is easy to fake.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 21 2024 13:42 utc | 224
See my (209) comment as well.
The 10,000 Western NGO’s in Moldova – along with the help of the government position held by pro-Western foreigners (Romanian) – stuffed the ballot boxes at the last minute to swing the votes in the Wests direction.
“A knife-edge majority of Moldovans have approved incumbent pro-Western President Maia Sandu’s EU accession plans, election officials said on Monday, following an almost complete count of a ballot on the issue.
According to Moldova’s Central Electoral Commission, with 99.5% of the ballots counted, 50.4% of voters backed Sandu’s plan to enshrine integration with the EU in the former Soviet country’s constitution, while 49.6% voted against the step.
The tally came as something of a surprise, given that preliminary results issued late on Sunday had indicated that a slight majority of voters were against the move. According to media reports, the ‘yes’ camp received a last-minute push from ballots cast by Moldovans living abroad, which were counted towards the end.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 21 2024 14:48 utc | 225
The USA’s, main Turkish terrorist – used to try and overthrow Erdogan a few years back has died – Fethullah Gulen – who heads up a huge US backed terrorist organisation, died aged 83 in America – he was brought to the US during Clinton’s administration – and Sibel Edmonds, a US whistleblower, revealed some of his US backed terrorist groups actions – such as below.
“He has since established more than 300 madrasahs in Central Asia and what he calls universities that have a front that is called Moderate Islam, but he is closely involved in training mujahideen-like militia Islam who are brought from Pakistan and Afghanistan into Central Asia where his madrasahs operate, and his organization’s network is estimated to be around $25 billion.
He has opened several Islamic universities in the United States. As I said it’s being promoted under Moderate Islam. It is supported by certain U.S. authorities here because of the operations in Central Asia, but what they have been doing since late 1990s is actually radical Islam and militizing (phonetic) these very, very young, from the age 14, 15, by commandoes they use, and this is both commandoes from Turkish military, commandoes from Pakistani ISI in Central Asia and Azerbaijan, and after that they bring them to Turkey, and from Turkey they send them through Europe, to European and elsewhere.”
Sibel Edmonds (2009) ”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 21 2024 15:06 utc | 226
@ Bemildred | Oct 21 2024 13:42 utc | 225
Yes, quite so, agreed indeed. Though even so, sometimes, no. When matched to corroborating records, tracking, entities, etc, rather than an individual ‘instance of data’, in isolation.
Cheers
Fragmentary digital evidence ….
Posted by: Outraged | Oct 20 2024 21:32 utc | 223
—————-
A frame up ?
The ruse based order has honed it into a science !
Exhibit A
The 1965 INdon genocide
The army’s anxiety was increased by rumors, throughout 1965, that mainland China was smuggling arms to the PKI for an imminent revolt. Two weeks before Gestapu, a story to this effect also appeared in a Malaysian newspaper, citing Bangkok sources which relied in turn on Hong Kong sources.106 Such international untraceability is the stylistic hallmark of stories emanating in this period from what CIA insiders called their “mighty Wurlitzer,” the world-wide network of press “assets” through which the CIA, or sister agencies such as Britain’s MI-6, could plant unattributable disinformation.
Posted by: denk | Oct 21 2024 16:12 utc | 228