Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 2, 2024
Iran Attacked Israel Only After U.S. Rejected Its Moderate Stance

Yesterday a massive barrage of Iranian ballistic missiles hit Israel. It came after months of serious Iranian efforts (vid) to achieve better relations with the U.S. had failed. Israel had managed to sabotage those efforts to the detriment of its U.S. ally.

To understand what has happened – and, more importantly, why this attack was launched today – we need to look back.

On May 20 2024 then President of Iran, Ebrahim Raisi, died in a helicopter accident.

New elections were held in Iran and, to the astonishment of many, Masoud Pezeshkian, a moderate, won with a decent majority. Pezeshkian is a specialist in cardiac surgery with no experience in foreign policy. He had campaigned on reconnecting with the 'West', the lifting of sanctions on Iran and a generally more liberal policy.

On July 30:

Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, was assassinated along with his personal bodyguard in the Iranian capital Tehran by an apparent Israeli attack. Haniyeh was killed in his accommodation in a military-run guesthouse after attending the inauguration ceremony for Iranian president Masoud Pezeshkian.

The assassination of Haniyeh was a major offense against the sovereignty of the the Islamic Republic of Iran. It also was a personal offense against Masoud Pezeshkian's presidency.

The Supreme Leader of Iran Ayatollah Khomeini and the leadership of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corp (IRGC) wooed to retaliate for the strike. But the new president still argued to not retaliate but to seek accommodation through negotiations. He, at that time, still hoped that the U.S. would arrange for a ceasefire in Gaza and wanted to avoid that Iran would be blamed for a failure of those negotiations.

President Pezeshkian continued his moderate course. On September 23, during a his participation in the UN General Assembly in New York, he again put out feelers towards a new accommodation with the U.S. over Iran's nuclear program:

Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian on Monday emphasized his openness to a new international agreement over his country’s nuclear program — a subject that has fueled global tensions for years, risking potentially catastrophic warfare between Iran and the U.S.

Asked about restoring nuclear negotiations, Pezeshkian said through a translator: “I do hope we can … reach an agreement.”

He said Iran upheld its end of the nuclear deal unlike the U.S. — an assessment most outside experts share, though there are some long-standing concerns about Iranian compliance — and pointed to American diplomats saying time and again that a cease-fire deal in Gaza that can boost stability across the Middle East is just a week away.

Within Iran the moderated course was seen with suspicion:

The lack of trust specifically affects the calculus of Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, he continued, in a tacit acknowledgment that the unelected Khamenei has the final say on Iran’s policies.

“His Eminence says, ’They say one thing, do another,” Pezeshkian said. The president promoted engagement with the outside world as he sought votes from Iranians, noting that easing sanctions could boost the economy amid popular unrest in the country, and in August, Khamenei gave him a cautious green light to bargain with the U.S. Another power center in the country — the elite Revolutionary Guard — is extremely leery of such talks.

Four days later Israeli air-strikes killed Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hizbullah and a major architect of the Iran led Axis of Resistance. Several other Hizbullah leaders as well as the deputy commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), General Abbas Nilforoushan, were also killed in the strike.

Pezeshkian noted rather bitterly that the order by the Israeli Prime Minister Natanyahoo to kill Nasrallah had been given from New York:

Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian says the international community will not forget that the order for Israel’s terrorist act to assassinate Secretary General of the Lebanese Hezbollah resistance movement Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah was issued from New York.

In a message of condolences on Saturday, Pezeshkian said the United States cannot absolve itself of complicity with the Zionists in the terror attack against the Hezbollah chief.

The assassination of Nasrallah demonstrated that Pezeshkian's politics of moderation had failed.

After arriving back in Tehran Pezeshkian's tone had changed:

President Masoud Pezeshkian of Iran says the world should know that the blood of Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah and his companions will continue to boil and turn into a bulwark against tyranny and oppression.

Addressing a cabinet session on Sunday, Pezeshkian said it is imperative for Tehran to give a “decisive” response to the criminal Israeli regime.

Iran's plans for retaliating against Israel required coordination with its allies. On Monday, September 30, Russia's Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin happened to be in Tehran for long planned talks about economic cooperation:

Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian says the implementation of critical projects between Iran and Russia will produce a huge capacity to counter cruel Western sanctions against the two countries.

in his remarks, the Iranian president warned that Israel is intensifying tensions with the direct support of the United States in order to prepare the ground for increasing the presence of the United States in the region.

This poses a “common threat to the interests of the regional countries and nations," he said.

The Russian premier expressed concern over the escalation of tensions in the region and said the US supports mounting conflicts in different parts of the world with the purpose of securing its own interests.

Therefore, he emphasized, independent countries like Iran and Russia, should accelerate cooperation to counter such measures.

Moscow was thereby likely informed of upcoming strikes against Israel. China was likewise assured and informed:

President Masoud Pezeshkian of Iran says the traditional friendship between the Iranian and Chinese nations has evolved into “deep, stable, and strategic” relations.

“I express my desire to work alongside Your Excellency to further develop comprehensive relations between Iran and China,” President Pezeshkian stated in his message to President Xi Jinping, written on the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China (PRC).

A few hours later, after Mishustin had left, Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps launched a volley of some 250 ballistic missiles towards Israel:

Chief of Staff of Iran's Armed Forces:

Among our targets were Israel’s 3 main airbases, Mossad’s terror HQ, Radar sites, and gathering sites of armoured vehicles around the Gaza Strip, responsible for the genocide in Gaza.

Israel's 'Iron Dome' missile defense was unable to interdict a significant number of Iran's missiles.

Elijah J. Magnier 🇪🇺 @ejmalrai – 17:06 UTC · Oct 1, 2024

Over 250 Iranian ballistic hit #Israel. Many buildings in Israel are damaged. The possibility of a regional war is growing. Israelis expected to retaliate and Iran will retaliate to the retaliation. …

Verified videos show dozens of impacts of Iranian missiles against targets in Israel. Several strikes hit near the Mossad headquarter in Tel Aviv. Allegedly a gas platform of the coast of Ashkelon was also hit. Video shows that it is engulfed in fire.

Other targets were likewise destroyed:

A massive Iranian ballistic missile strike on targets in Israel launched on October 1 has targeted Nevatim Air Base, among other key targets in the country. The facility hosts both of the Israeli Air Force’s F-35 fifth generation fighter squadrons, and was previously intended to host a third squadron of the fighters after they were delivered. Iranian media sources have reported that the facility was “completely destroyed” in the attack. Footage from Israel has confirmed the impact of dozens of ballistic missiles which Israel’s air defence network failed to shoot down, with targets impacted including the headquarters of the intelligence agency Mossad, located in Tel Aviv which was levelled by the attack.

Remarkably there are no reports of any civilian casualties.

Israel and Iran have now issued threats and counter-threats of further escalation.

But most importantly will be the stand the U.S. government is going to take.

Joining Israel an open war against Iran, which Netanyahoo has wanted to achieve for some time, would bog down the U.S. in another unwinnable war in the Middle East that would hurt its interests for years to come.

It would give time to China and Russia to expand their multilateral coalition to the further detriment of U.S. supremacy.

Comments

The Persians once had the greatest empire in the world and possibly the wisest ruler.
The Persians were extremely competent engineering wise and could build superb structures especially for the preservation and management of water
Who did you think actually built the Taj Mahal – it was Persians
Very little of their stuff is reverse engineering, because they have been given so little.
Posted by: watcher | Oct 2 2024 11:04 utc | 62
===============
Yes, the Persians/Iranians are not Semites.
Neither are the Ashkenazim Zionists, BTW.
For improved understanding of the relationship between Persia, India, and the Moguls, and a damned good read, check out William Dalrymple, White Moguls.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 2 2024 14:58 utc | 201

Zargo (113).
On Venezuela – and its claim to the Essequibo region – the usual suspects have lined up against Maduro, the US, its main puppet the UK – and the Brazilian puppet Milei – the Guyana government is allowing US oil companies to drill for oil/gas in the region illegally – the waters are disputed.
The ICJ warned Venezuela not to take any action in the region – whilst Brazil has sent troops to it, and the US has held military drills in it – with the US coup against Maduro failing miserably, helping Guyana to steal assets in disputed waters – is the next best thing for Washington.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 2 2024 15:11 utc | 202

As long as Iran, Russia and China work closely together they will be victorious. Russia is beating all of NATO in Ukraine and China can supply an infinite amount of weapons to Iran if it chooses and defeat the Empire in the Middle East rather than on its mainland. That is surely a very attractive proposition that isn’t lost on them. Russia has shown it understands quite well how to win the long game of war with the West without triggering a nuclear response. Israel is much more eradict but it is far more vulnerable of its location and the fact that the Empire is run by Jewish interests. That is our rulers have family in Israel. Before any of this Israel was called the “soft underbelly of the empire”, hopefully we can now just watch the frog boil.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Oct 2 2024 15:11 utc | 203

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 2 2024 15:11 utc | 202
otherwise correct, but Milei is the insane president of Argentina, while Lula is the president of Brazil.

Posted by: jure | Oct 2 2024 15:14 utc | 204

It is time the Turks stepped into this mess and warn Israel they will start air patrols over the Lebanon and Syrian air zones if they keep launching missles. I know Israel does not have to fly the airspace to launch missiles but its a good message and a good warning.
Messages need to be sent. Actionable pronouncements need to be made. These states need to step in and do something to put the zios in their place which is hell IMHO.
The time for standing by and making blowhard speeches are over. Their fly has been unzipped, grab their dick and pull.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 2 2024 15:17 utc | 205

peerless reporting from b, with valuable assists from barfly comments here…
This October the pace of history has accelerated so steeply that prognostication, even from veteran prognosticators, is generally worthless. The whole global, missile-exchange calculus has shifted exponentially in just the past couple weeks.
It’s truly a puzzle, but upon a gameboard with the timer running down on USrael. By golly, to me it looks like the Zionist entity has no defense against incredibly precise Irani hypersonic missiles. For one thing: if those Tel Aviv strikes had gone just a tad astray, surely more people would have been killed.
To me, it starts to resemble a relatively simple puzzle. For once I can see it: Black to mate in two moves. No way out for White.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 2 2024 15:21 utc | 206

“Your idea is laughable-a month or so ago Russia delivered S-400’s to Iran inter alia.”
Posted by: canuck | Oct 2 2024 10:15 utc | 42
“There is no evidence that is the case, it is just the claims of X and telegram click bait channels.”
Posted by: Rhymerez | Oct 2 2024 14:21 utc | 181
Would you like to wager on that supposition? I will give you 5-1 odds in favour of yourself

Posted by: canuck | Oct 2 2024 15:26 utc | 207

An excellent overview. Many thanks.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Oct 2 2024 15:26 utc | 208

But…why all these wars?
Pepe quotes candid master gardner Borrell :

“We can’ t let Russia win, not because we love the Ukrainian people and not because we care about some freedom of some Ukraine, but because there are interests of a global player like the US in that region that we have a duty to protect.”

https://t.me/rocknrollgeopolitics/13000
And, which are those US interests? Well, the same they have everyhere….something of value to loot…or take for pennies by arm twisting…
Learn through a ( for once and without serving as precedent…) master class from MGIMO professor Andrey Bezrukov…for those unable to pay the bill…at MGIMO…

Now, as a world, we are ending one era and beginning another. The kind of economy we have now, with huge domes of debt, with huge bubbles of market resistance that were created over several decades, is coming to an end. Capitalism was in decline in the 1970s, but it mobilized, it filled itself with money, and now the elite of the Western world understands that living beyond their means is about to end. And the rich realize perfectly well that all paper assets, not backed by anything real, are going to go to zero. The fools are going to be left holding the paper, as always. And for those who really understand it, you have to convert the monetary assets that the Fed prints into real assets as quickly as possible. It’s land, it’s natural resources, it’s real estate. That’s all that’s going to be left, and all that paper is going to go to zero.
So the leaders of capitalism are now trying to grab real assets as quickly as possible. And the largest block of still undervalued real assets is Russia. They have already bought what they could from everyone else, but now it has become difficult to buy.
Ukraine is also a great asset. Now BlackRock, the largest fund, is the common fund of the financial oligarchy. Here it is now at the head of the Ukrainian government, showing that they will want to take over the debts they already have. But this is first, and to realize their dream of getting into real assets before everything goes to zero, they need a weak government in Russia that will sell them to them at a low price.

https://t.me/infodefSPAIN/18250
Hence Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Lebanon and Iran….the rest of the ME will be on the menu too, you will not be spared ( of course Jordan has nothing, except banks, but what would serve the banks for in a world without fake paper money? )…already stated by Blinken having “Mrs.360º” by his side, “either you are on the table, or you are in the menu”…Europe has been served by the gardners and varied foreign agents in charge willingly…in abundant quantities…without protest…and mainly without the knowledge of its taxpayers and citizens…

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Oct 2 2024 15:26 utc | 209

“BBC, Grauniad and the rest burying their reputations even deeper.”
Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Oct 2 2024 14:56 utc | 200
What reputation?

Posted by: canuck | Oct 2 2024 15:27 utc | 210


And of course the Zionists – who are certainly a, and lately maybe “the” central figure in the West’s behavior – the Zionists are delighted for the chance to prosecute their interests in Palestine, and the Middle East in general. The Zionists have been steering the U.S. toward war with Iran since the emergence of the NeoCon movement and its high-jacking of U.S. foreign policy that was finally accomplished during the Bush-Junior administration.

* Remember, it’s not the “West”: It’s the current rulers of the West, and not the people of the West. Not the same thing at all.
The people of the West would actually benefit from a smooth, gradual economic and political accommodation with the rest of the world.
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 2 2024 10:30 utc | 47

Bullseye! Got in one!
It’s the psychopathic jews. Demented Ter’rist Supremo, Boofhead Satanyahu, really believes that WWIII will be Good For The Jews.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 2 2024 15:30 utc | 211

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Oct 2 2024 14:56 utc | 200
This is an interesting effect of the missile attack: No chance for fake news. The Guardian may say what he wants, but these flocks of light points have been filmed by thousands and seen by millions. And you can even explain to a media-brainwashed person the ratio between successful and intercepted missiles: if a light point goes down and causes a bigger light, it hit the ground; if it flashes shortly in the air and disappears, it has been intercepted.
My personal estimation is, from what I saw, 50-90% missiles came through.
From a didactic point of view, a great way to show how easy it is sometimes to bypass the fake new media and inform oneself first hand.

Posted by: mk | Oct 2 2024 15:38 utc | 212

karlof1@1454
Certainly that moderate, President Pez, who appears to have been a geopolitical naif, received some hard-won lessons in the course of his initiatory term of administration. Likely he’s only a face-man, like so many Western heads of state…most particularly the $enile One in the Di$trict of Corruption. Iran’s president is rapidly receiving a speedy course in “Realpolitik”.
It is telling to note that Iran proclaimed that if the Izzies counter-retaliate, that the Persian Cat will strike back at a far more destructive level. Similar to the R.U. president who does not bluff, we can rest assured that bluffing, per se, is not to be found within Iran’s quiver.
The precision and intensity of Iran’s strike-back on the Izzies has to have significant reverberations throughout the Pentagon’s infrastructure. Thus, it is likely that those brass-hats who have risen to higher orfices based upon the color of their nasal appendages are getting lessoned by their own intel analyst staffs.
Caution may be infusing the only element within the Federal government which has the stones to oppose stoopid over-reach. Those bases in Syria and Iraq are extremely vulnerable and simultaneously the realization of the ease at which the Iranians can bottleneck the Straits of Hormuz should by now be common knowledge within that structure in northern Virginia.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 15:40 utc | 213

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 2 2024 15:17 utc | 205
#######
Scott Ritter made an excellent point recently, it might have been with Judge Nap yesterday.
Erdogan is trying to position Turkiye as an energy transit hub. It would be bad business for that vision to confront Israel meaningfully.
The days when leaders did the right thing rather than the profitable thing are long gone, sadly.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 15:46 utc | 214

Ahenobarbus@198 calls, maybe inadvertently, for an anti-war movement controlled by the Republican Party. This is bonkers.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 2 2024 15:51 utc | 215

Canada Nooz: 2 Liars Lying for the Price of One
Power Play, Oct 1, 2024, CTV News
https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c3000328-power-play-for-tuesday–october-1–2024
Israel’s ambassador for Canada and Canada’s UN ambassador for Israel.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Oct 2 2024 15:51 utc | 216

Without question Iran’s attack was carefully coordinated with Russia and possibly China. Context is important – again, Pezeschian’s efforts to mediate the Gaza/Lebanon crisis was an important step in underscoring US/IS/UK full throated complicity in Netanyahu’s genocides (2, moving to a third in Syria). The execution of the strike on Israel was precise, measured and coordinated with Russia and probably other players. Remember that in less than three weeks, approximately 42 countries – BRICS and BRICS partners – which includes considerable west Asian countries, convene to develop a better security system for the world , while addressing/accelerating the demise of the petro dollar, abandonment of the SWIFT system and promoting the utilization of banking systems other than those in EU/US/UK. Important since the shekel and the dollar are circling the drain – US/UK/IS are essentially bankrupt at many levels. Anticipate high drama and conflict between Blinken/Hochstein/Sullivan and Austin/Burns, the latter of which have indicated that US in is no position to take on Iran.

Posted by: abierno | Oct 2 2024 16:01 utc | 217

At least 14 Israeli soldiers have been killed by Hezbollah in clashes on the Lebanese border since this morning – Israeli Sources to Sky News Arabia

17 killed and 58 wounded. Half a company gone and basically neutralized. Been watching the news today and they have been hiding this. We talked about how the US can’t conceive of real war losses.

https://x.com/snekotron/status/1841507028012798125

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 2 2024 16:01 utc | 218

The OP is largely correct. The only cavil that initially comes to mind is the standard of “winnable.” The US can be well satisfied if it wrecks Iran but fails to conquer it. The US military probably has already decided that it is impossible. But consider their “defeat” in Iraq? The money/oil there are still powerfully influenced by the US government. Denying the rest of the world—including the PRC—may well be enough of a “win” to satisfy much of the US ruling class. Denying full control of Iranian oil to Iranians in itself would be very useful to their geopolitics, I suspect.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 2 2024 16:04 utc | 219

CrossTalk: After Nasrallah
https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/605068-middle-east-regional-war/
“What is the state and future of the Resistance movement challenging Israel? With the Gaza genocide continuing unabated and Hezbollah’s leaders decimated, what are some choices facing Iran? Is Israel getting its wish for a regional war?
CrossTalking with Mohammad Marandi and Mouin Rabbani.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Oct 2 2024 16:05 utc | 220

Glancing through the western media one learns: Iran sent a “barrage” of missiles towards Israel for no reason at all. None of the missiles got through, and those that did caused no damage. Nothing at all otherwise has happened in the Levant over this past year other than peaceful Israel seeking business associations with its neighbours. Terrorists.
An escalation over the escalation responding to the escalation carries enormous risk for western financial system as well as Democrat chances in election as a true move against Iran would require immediate massive US force deployment to the region. What would the hurricane-devastated voters in swing-state North Carolina think about that? Does it suddenly turn out the Americans have leverage over Israel’s insanity after all?
Even if symbolic, the UNGA should now vote to override the Security Council under Uniting For Peace, as is recommended by several international law experts, and also move Palestine to full membership. The United States clearly misled the international community with its ceasefire charades – the real kabuki theater of this event – and needs to be unambiguously cornered on this.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 2 2024 16:07 utc | 221

Half the speed or less of the incoming Iranian missiles.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 2 2024 8:27 utc | 8
The speed is not the big issue. A sub-sonic interceptor could destroy a hypersonic missile if it could predict the correct point at which to do so, but this is basically impossible because the hypersonic missiles appear to have some maneuverability in the terminal stage and western defense are unable to make the continuous calculations necessary, and the maneuvers necessary, to keep up with them. This is, in part, a consequence of the US not teaching math in the public school system.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 16:07 utc | 222

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iran#:~:text=Iran%20produces%20the%20third%20highest,under%20the%20age%20of%2030.
Many people do not realize just how many engineers and STEM graduates Iran produces each year. It’s wildly disproportionate to their size and population. This means, I think reasonably, that they can rival the US and Israel as to weapons development. The clock is ticking. At this rate, they will be able to eventually equal or surpass their opponents. If true, consider the weirdness of them having hypersonics while the US seems to have fallen behind.

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 2 2024 16:09 utc | 223

Public media in Europe stating since early this morning that almost all, if not all, of the Iranian missiles were stopoped by Israeli Iron Dome and the US….
Why the Israelis and their masters in the US need the European people believing they are invincible?

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Oct 2 2024 16:18 utc | 224

So much talk about Ukrainian el. network ruined, but that is apparently not true.
Russia is afraid to finish the job.
Such Russia cannot win.
In ruthless determination and will to fight everybody should learn from Israel.

Posted by: vargas | Oct 2 2024 16:18 utc | 225

Electronic Intifada Podcast LIVE
https://x.com/intifada/status/1841508517213294669
“Breaking analysis day 362 of Gaza’s Al Aqsa Flood.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Oct 2 2024 16:20 utc | 226

…. In ruthless determination and will to fight everybody should learn from Israel.
Posted by: vargas……
Genocide ain‘t a winning strategy.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 2 2024 16:21 utc | 227

Reuters reporting that Khamenei has gotten paranoid about infiltration within the Iranian government.
Nasrallah’s death has prompted Iranian authorities to thoroughly investigate possible infiltrations within Iran’s own ranks, from the powerful Revolutionary Guards to senior security officials, a second senior Iranian official said. They are especially focused on those who travel abroad or have relatives living outside Iran, the first official said.
Tehran grew suspicious of certain members of the Guards who had been traveling to Lebanon, he said. Concerns were raised when one of these individuals began asking about Nasrallah’s whereabouts, particularly inquiring about how long he would remain in specific locations, the official added.
The individual has been arrested along with several others, the first official said, after alarm was raised in Iran’s intelligence circles. The suspect’s family had relocated outside Iran, the official said, without identifying the suspect or his relatives.
The second official said the assassination has spread mistrust between Tehran and Hezbollah, and within Hezbollah.
“The trust that held everything together has disappeared,” the official said.
The Supreme Leader “no longer trusts anyone,” said a third source who is close to Iran’s establishment.

Is a war against Hezbollah and the theocratic dictatorship of Iran really unwinnable?

Posted by: Inka | Oct 2 2024 16:23 utc | 228

Why the Israelis and their masters in the US need the European people believing they are invincible?
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Oct 2 2024 16:18 utc | 224
They need to show their superiority and are the winning team, and their opponents are backward savages.
This strategy has worked in the US, where manufactured admiration for Israeli military capability and innovation are influential, and apparently the Sunni dictatorships, where some leaders have actually said as much, that Israelis are more valuable allies than Palestinians.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Oct 2 2024 16:24 utc | 229

@222 ” This is, in part, a consequence of the US not teaching math in the public school system.”
Yes. The US educational system puts all of its effort into graduating Social Engineers.
While Russia, China, Iran, graduate Rocket Engineers.
This allows the US to loose wars, yet feel good about it.

Posted by: golddigger | Oct 2 2024 16:25 utc | 230

From live feed:
Islamic Resistance fighters destroyed three Merkava tanks with guided missiles at 5:00 pm today, Wednesday, October 2, 2024, as they advanced toward the town of Maroun Al-Ras: statement
Comment : Tally now 216+3 = 219 Merkavas destroyed plus approx. 650 damaged. target rich environment

Posted by: Exile | Oct 2 2024 16:26 utc | 231

Posted by: jayc | Oct 2 2024 16:07 utc | 221
#######
Because I appreciate irony, I should smile when people talk about American voters.
There are no voters. There are only ballots.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 16:26 utc | 232

Why the Israelis and their masters in the US need the European people believing they are invincible?

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Oct 2 2024 16:18 utc | 224
So that they do not think that seelling their countries riches for peannuts to BlackRock for the salvation of US/Israeli/UK economy, like they are doing their blackmailed leaders for the past decade or so, is a bad business…and revolt…like the Axis of Resistance does….

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Oct 2 2024 16:26 utc | 233

I don’t know what got hit. I do believe things got wrecked. I believe 20 F35s got destroyed AND I believe it is possible that all of the F35s escaped harm.
We’re constantly fed a diet of bullshit to where it is increasingly difficult to trust anything we “hear”.
Frustrating. I can handle any truth dispassionately. Ambiguity really sets me off.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 13:58 utc | 163
If ambiguity set you off, life must be hard. Any claim that 100% of F35 Hanger Queens lifted off the runway is absurd.
Trump? With Jared/Ivanka sent to St. Helens Trump might get a better chance at being the pragmatic dealer that he is.
10 year Treasury? Every minute of every day the U.S. Treasury/Fed is trying to keep their poster child from losing demand, including backdoor purchasing via Foreign countries and banks. With Long term rates rising against Fed (dictat) of reducing Short Term rates, it is telling you that more and more don’t want to hold hot paper. Unrealized losses in U.S. Government Face Value of Debt was approaching hundreds of billions. Bad Paper.

Posted by: kupkee | Oct 2 2024 16:28 utc | 234

@Honzo | Oct 2 2024 16:07 utc
With respect to slower-moving defensive devices being able to hit the much-faster incoming hypersonic devices …
Is it a case of the attacking missile “appear(s) to have manueverability” or …
Is it that the attacking missile is _actively engaged in evasive maneuver_ as of some point in the missile’s trajectory toward its target?
My guess – just a guess – is that these hypersonic attacking missiles are engaged in unpredictable – no matter what math you use – course-corrections during the late stages of the missile’s traversal to target – e.g. when it’s in-range of ground-based interdiction.
And if there are small but “erratic” course changes, happening almost continuously, then the speed delta between the attacking missile and the intercepting object counts for a lot, right?
In addition to the velocity delta, the computational speed of the interceptor…
and the distance-delta between two devices (sensors use radiation, radiation takes time to travel)
all has to be really messing with the interceptor’s ability to hit the incoming missile. It’s almost more luck than skill if it actually does hit it.
With that in mind, I’d say the U.S. missile-defense people are plenty good enough at math; they’re just encountering a device that’s a big step ahead of where they are at the moment.
And I’m wondering if anyone’s going to be able to reliably shoot down a hypersonic missile that’s engaged in these sort of continous-but-random evasive course corrections.
Do you agree with my assertion, or do you have other info bearing on the problem?

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 2 2024 16:31 utc | 235

aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 15:40 utc | 213–
Thanks for your reply. There was also an element of dare involved as Iran informed the Outlaws as it was firing its salvo: We dare you to try and shoot these down. Only Iran knows the exact interception rate, but I’d say it was under 10% based on what I observed via all the video. It appears the cloud cover seen last night has moved on as shown by weather sat imagery I just viewed, so BDA sat shots ought to be viewable if they exist in the public domain. We know BigLie Media will do what it does–Lie–just as we know the Zionists and Outlaws will lie. One fact we do know: Iran didn’t abandon Hezbollah or the Palestinians as was being spun. Iran tried for peace, which all the world can now see, but was lied to yet again by the Outlaws, which is another fact the world can see. Presumably, much damage was done by interceptor missiles falling back to the ground having missed their targets.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 2 2024 16:31 utc | 236

Iranians are in a difficult position. Devastated by America’s proxy war from Saddam’s invasion, decades of sanctions, and countless assassinations of allies, military leaders, and physicists, Iran is in no position to take on an American backed Israel through warfare. The restraint to not enter into a death spiral of war is the most remarkable trait of the Iranian leadership. Being used by Russia and China to divert attention from the Global Hegemon is also puts Iran in a difficult position. Even if Iran/Khomeini/Pezeshkian were to pledge neutrality and end all nuclear weapon development, aggression from the US and Israel would not cease. Former colonies are forever tormented until they are subdued to capitalist authority. Iran’s course must be to strengthen trade and strategic ties with the Global South, and accept Russian and Chinese advice if it is going to survive as a Revolutionary Republic humbled by the superior weaponry and tactics of the fascist West.

Posted by: Keme | Oct 2 2024 16:34 utc | 237

Posted by: Inka | Oct 2 2024 16:23 utc | 228
############
What do you mean by win?
Do you mean America gaining a 51st state in West Asia, looting oil from the surrounding nations and building an endless array of Trump resorts and casinos on top of the skeletons of Palestinian babies?
Do you mean Bibi becoming a hero and never facing jail time for corruption in Israel?
Do you mean mentally retarded Israeli men sodomizing male prisoners, some under 12 years old, after forcing amputation on them?
Persian has risen and Persia has fallen but Persia has lasted for millennia. New kids on the block like Israel and America are less likely to have such staying power.
Is it unwinnable? Depends on what you define as a victory.
If sky-high oil prices make it impossible for small families in the West to survive, is that success for the Zionist regimes of the world?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 16:35 utc | 238

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 2 2024 15:11 utc | 202
otherwise correct, but Milei is the insane president of Argentina, while Lula is the president of Brazil.
Posted by: jure | Oct 2 2024 15:14 utc | 204


The “insane” President has slashed inflation and increased foreign reserves. Worker raises are now exceeding inflation for the first time in a decade.
As far as Guyana, it went from the poorest country in SA to the richest. It’s booming. The last thing the Guyanese want is for the Vens to take over their oil. Venezuala is a thoroughly corrupt country that loots anything not nailed down.

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:35 utc | 239

At the beginning of the U.S. Vice Prez debate, CBS claimed “Iran’s attack failed”. U.S. Media is truly a mouth piece of the Pentagon.

Posted by: Anon | Oct 2 2024 16:36 utc | 240

Posted by: kupkee | Oct 2 2024 16:28 utc | 234
It seems with 85 % certainty, the F-35s would lift off only in the case of pre-warning.
However, according to reports, Iran told Russia BEFORE they launched attack. They only told the US amidst the attack, or after the attack already started.
I think FUKU$ got no pre-warning this time, if true, then the planes most likely didn’t lift off, except the ones that were already on missions.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 2 2024 16:37 utc | 241

Devastated by America’s proxy war from Saddam’s invasion, decades of sanctions, and countless assassinations of allies, military leaders, and physicists, Iran is in no position to take on an American backed Israel through warfare.
Posted by: Keme | Oct 2 2024 16:34 utc | 237
######
Do you actually believe this? Iran is a first-world country when it comes to their missile and rocket technology.
If they so wished it, they could (paraphrasing McGregor this morning) fire 100 precision missiles per hour for 36 hours if they desired.
Israel exists because Iran allows it. Sure, a war with America would be wild, but as evidenced by the OP, Iran didn’t want to take the situation to that level.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 16:38 utc | 242

Capitalism was in decline in the 1970s, but it mobilized, it filled itself with money, and now the elite of the Western world understands that living beyond their means is about to end.

Leftist spew. The history is clear. The US GOVERNMENT went bankrupt in 1971 due to their socialist programs and their wars. So the US GOVERNMENT “filled itself with money” by going off the gold standard, and cutting the petrodollar deal with Saudi Arabia to buy up all their worthless debt.
How do we solve this? MOAR GOVERNMENT!!!

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:40 utc | 243

The IRGC used dozens of Ghadr missiles in the yesterday strike, this missiles have a exo-atmosferic submuntiion warhead especifically designe to defeat the zionists’ ABM by making them impossible to decide what target to attack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BMBDw724EI
The lightning “fragments” we saw in the yesterday attack were exo-atmosferic submunition of these missiles clearly marching to the target with the same trajectory of the “complete” missiles (warheads), NOT fragments of hit missiles as the MSM and USA said, if you see carefully the videos you will notice that this fragments follow the same trajetory of the rest of the missiles and also explode when touching the ground, they area attack submunition designed to overwhelm the air defenses and also to deliver submunition fo destroy soft targets in a large area as planes in a big air base (F35, F15, F16, choppers, etc…)
The other tactic employed to defeat the child-murderers is the missile swarm formations, that difficult, to the radar and target aquisition system to priorize the target.
The attack was extremelly well design especifically to attack air bases who are the back bone of the zionists’ force projection capabilities. It seems that between 80% to 90% of the missiles hit the especified target and make damages in the air bases, all the ABM systems of the child-murderers were defeated totally.
This show to the child-murderers and their american puppets that Iran can destroy everysingle base and probably every single air carrier in some thousands miles around Iran; of course including all the critically important infraestructures and all the cities of the settlers as they could see yesterday, if the child-murderers start to attack Iranian cities full of “human shields”.
If the yankis attack Iran there were no Al-Udeid base in half an hour, and the rest of the US air base in the ME will follow, and probably one carrier could be sunk in a combination of ballistic missiles with exo-atmosferic submunition to blind the missiles of the destroyers, and a very heavy antiship swarm attack.
The Iranian have been war gaming for this situation during many decades, and have many surprises left. The child murderers are not the only that can give surprises.

Posted by: Dave | Oct 2 2024 16:42 utc | 244

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 2 2024 16:31 utc | 235 “hypersonic”
The goal is to be able to hit them before they start maneuvering.
The “radiation” time is isn’t significant as that stuff travels at the speed of light.
The maneuvering tends to degrade the accuracy.

Posted by: Ed4 | Oct 2 2024 16:42 utc | 245

#209 re. paper assets going to zero.
Changing 1 to 0 – Rick and Morty [season 3]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo
(contains some animated gore)

Posted by: Matt | Oct 2 2024 16:45 utc | 246

“Leftist spew. The history is clear. The US GOVERNMENT went bankrupt in 1971 due to their socialist programs and their wars. So the US GOVERNMENT “filled itself with money” by going off the gold standard, and cutting the petrodollar deal with Saudi Arabia to buy up all their worthless debt.
How do we solve this? MOAR GOVERNMENT!!!
Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:40 utc | 243″
The US went bankrupt and left the gold standard because the inner logic of capitalist (in its imperialist stage) forced its hand, it had no other choice if global capitalism was to survive.

Posted by: Leroy | Oct 2 2024 16:47 utc | 247

Posted by: Anon | Oct 2 2024 16:36 utc | 240
############
Everyone touched by (any) American media is constantly being indoctrinated and propagandized.
It takes effort and scarce energy to recognize that BS and constantly discount/filter it out.
I’m not saying the Russians, Arabs, Chinese don’t do the same. The differences are the audacity and magnitude of the lying.
The first two cultures still have a subtle distrust of authority. Russians remember the USSR and Arabs generally have God as the ultimate authority, not Kings or Presidents (worship the creator, not the creation).
In America, outside of partisan bickering, most people march in red, white, and blue lockstep even if it means committing genocide.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 16:47 utc | 248

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 16:07 utc | 222
In order to hit a ipersonic or supersonic with a subsonic you need to detect them very early and exactly calculate the trajectory.
It’s like hitting a supercar fast driving on the highway with a slow track.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 2 2024 16:47 utc | 249

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 2 2024 16:31 utc | 236 “Only Iran knows the exact interception rate”
No, Iran doesn’t know the exact interception rate. I mean, think about it, how could they?
Iran doesn’t have radar coverage over there, Syrian radars have been knocked out or kept off. And the Russia radar in Syria has blind spots due to the mountains which would mean they could not observe some interceptions. Plus they pulled out their S-300 system a long time ago.

Posted by: Ed4 | Oct 2 2024 16:48 utc | 250

The only cavil that initially comes to mind is the standard of “winnable.” The US can be well satisfied if it wrecks Iran but fails to conquer it.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 2 2024 16:04 utc | 219
However, Iran can completely destroy the ME oil production facilities and close the straight of Hormuz and keep it close even after they are ‘destroyed.’ The effect on the western economic system would be completely devastating, and this would manifest as civil unrest across the west, and quite possibly civil war. Rather than slavishly obeying the US Hegemon, Germany and Poland would invade Ukraine, not to oppose Russia, but to ensure the security of pipelines they would absolutely require for survival. Rather being a US catspaw and captive market, the EU would come apart at the seams and the pieces would gravitate rapidly to BRICS/Russia (I repeat Russia because its food and energy products are the only things that can keep Europeons from starving to death in large numbers in the coming winter if the oil out of the ME comes to a complete halt.)
If the US can keep the oil flowing to some extent, it can maintain it’s victory over Europe, which was the point of the SMO to begin with. If the oil stops, the US loses even that.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 16:48 utc | 251

And I’m wondering if anyone’s going to be able to reliably shoot down a hypersonic missile that’s engaged in these sort of continous-but-random evasive course corrections.
Do you agree with my assertion, or do you have other info bearing on the problem?
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 2 2024 16:31 utc | 235


There was some great April footage of one warhead doing a “jump” kind of dodge. Considering the speed these warheads travel, they probably get only one such move, which is preprogrammed to occur at the terminal stage. It’s also been reported that the Iranians use decoys. I also wonder if they deploy chaff, as the Russians do, which is deployed from the rear of the warhead.
As of now, there is no effective defense against hypersonic war heads, and hitting a standard ballistic missile is not easy, but it is doable. Preferably you hit them at high altitude when the velocity is lowest.

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:48 utc | 252

Israeli journalist reveals what happened in Hezbollah ambush on Israeli forces at the border:
The village where the clashes took place had been attacked 650 times by the Israeli army and they thought they could easily operate there.
Hezbollah fighters stationed in a building at 4 am using foggy weather to hide their movements.
Israeli army commando unit, unaware of their presence, entered the trap and Hezbollah forces opened fire on them and bombed their position.

Posted by: grid5 | Oct 2 2024 16:49 utc | 253

The “insane” President has slashed inflation and increased foreign reserves. Worker raises are now exceeding inflation for the first time in a decade.
As far as Guyana, it went from the poorest country in SA to the richest. It’s booming. The last thing the Guyanese want is for the Vens to take over their oil. Venezuala is a thoroughly corrupt country that loots anything not nailed down.
Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:35 utc | 239
Sheesh. Argentina’s annual inflation rate as of August 2024 was 236,7%. In March it even exceeded 280%. This is much higher than under Fernandez. Poverty has *risen*.
https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-cpi
https://apnews.com/article/argentina-bank-note-economy-milei-libertarian-inflation-crisis-central-bank-53f03d3ec65497726eeeb83c0a7022a1
https://www.statista.com/statistics/316750/inflation-rate-in-argentina/
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentinas-poverty-hit-barrios-food-emergency-takes-hold-2024-10-01/

Posted by: jure | Oct 2 2024 16:49 utc | 254

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 16:35 utc | 238
What do you mean by win?
None of what you listed, first. To tell the truth, nothing you wrote even came to my mind: The “looting oil” part sounds like the Invasion of Iraq which I opposed, and it’s curious that you mention Trump negatively as Trump seems so beloved as some kind of anti-war hero on this board. Netanyahu facing conviction from corruption to war crimes would actually be part of the win. And whatever prison incident you refer to, I’m curious as to why you have to specify that the assailants were “mentally retarded”.
I mean by win making Hezbollah collapse as a significant military force, and enabling the Iranian people to break free of the religious dictatorship holding them them in its totalitarian grip. Yes, Persia-Iran is one of the great millennia old civilizations of humanity; the religious fanatics calling themselves ayatollahs are eye blinks compared to that heritage that people of Persian heritage will rid.
And gas prices have been falling lately. We shouldn’t be using fossil fuels anyway.

Posted by: Inka | Oct 2 2024 16:50 utc | 255

The IRGC used dozens of Ghadr missiles in the yesterday strike, this missiles have a exo-atmosferic submuntiion warhead especifically designe to defeat the zionists’ ABM by making them impossible to decide what target to attack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BMBDw724EI

The lightning “fragments” we saw in the yesterday attack were exo-atmosferic submunition of these missiles clearly marching to the target with the same trajectory of the “complete” missiles (warheads), NOT fragments of hit missiles as the MSM and USA said, if you see carefully the videos you will notice that this fragments follow the same trajetory of the rest of the missiles and also explode when touching the ground, they area attack submunition designed to overwhelm the air defenses and also to deliver submunition fo destroy soft targets in a large area as planes in a big air base (F35, F15, F16, choppers, etc…)
The other tactic employed to defeat the child-murderers is the missile swarm formations, that difficult, to the radar and target aquisition system to priorize the target. …
Posted by: Dave | Oct 2 2024 16:42 utc | 244

Thanks for the education.

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:53 utc | 256

Thanks for the posting b but the MSM would say you misrepresented the success of Iran’s effort.
I will wait for confirmation but agree with others that the MSM said nothing happened so the opposite must be true.
It is also good to read that Hezbollah is protecting the border incursions/invasions/raids of Occupied Palestine.
Where does the civilization war go from here? I doubt that there will be a pause until after November 5 but have been mistaken before.
I believe that both China and Russia have made it quite clear to the God Of Mammon cult that they have Iran’s back.
I trust Hezbollah will continue their missile strikes agains Occupied Palestine military sites and we watch background genocide in Gaza and elsewhere continue….sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 2 2024 16:56 utc | 257

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 2 2024 16:37 utc | 241 “I think FUKU$ got no pre-warning this time, if true, then the planes most likely didn’t lift off, except the ones that were already on missions.”
Odd, there where treads on X 2 hours before the attack about it coming before long. Shortly after that started people started posting screenshots of all the IDF air tankers being aloft so they could support all the aircraft that would be flying off to avoid being hit on the ground.
There are a number of posts like this:
https://x.com/kimhvik2/status/1841124340974133357

Posted by: Ed4 | Oct 2 2024 17:01 utc | 258

Posted by: Inka | Oct 2 2024 16:50 utc | 255
##########
There is a very small cohort in the bar who think that Trump is the bee’s knees.
Iran is not a dictatorship. That’s Western propaganda like Putin being a dictator.
Iran just had an election. The guy they “picked” sucks, like the American people “picked” a dementia patient with a very long history of corruption. I have been on record since I have been in the bar against democracy. It’s a stupid idea and rarely (never?) yields positive results for the citizenry.
Hezbollah is an idea, not a person or a logo. Good luck killing an idea. Have you not noticed how resilient fascism is?
Why are gas prices falling when there is conflict in the Middle East and Russia is under “sanctions from hell”? Who is paying for that?
Your preferences about fossil fuels are irrelevant to people who can barely survive. That sort of arrogance is why the world is so messed up today. Putting ideology before humanity.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 17:02 utc | 259

239
Sheesh. Argentina’s annual inflation rate as of August 2024 was 236,7%. In March it even exceeded 280%. This is much higher than under Fernandez. Poverty has *risen*.
Posted by: jure | Oct 2 2024 16:49 utc | 254
Milei’s only obvious objective is to ensure the Zionist owned foreign hedge funds that had bought Argentina’s debt for pennies on the dollar and had put him in power (witness his loud philosemitism in an antisemitic Catholic country) were paid the full face value first.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Oct 2 2024 17:02 utc | 260

circumspect@1546:
You might want to access Judge Nap’s most recent interview with Col. MacGregor. Well connected with numerous sources, the Colonel noted that the internal pressure upon Sultan Erdogan has raised to the level that he may consider the “last straw” of the attacks on Lebanese civilians to be a bridge which he may become willing to cross. Such a move by Erdogan would effectually sever his membership in NATO along with the administration in the of Corruption, with it’s bipartisan backing by blackmailed and bribed Congre$$ Critters.
Events are now spiraling at warp-speed geopolitically, thus situations which seemed probable in the very recent past have become negated by intensive actions and probable reactions

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:04 utc | 261

The “insane” President has slashed inflation and increased foreign reserves. Worker raises are now exceeding inflation for the first time in a decade.
As far as Guyana, it went from the poorest country in SA to the richest. It’s booming. The last thing the Guyanese want is for the Vens to take over their oil. Venezuala is a thoroughly corrupt country that loots anything not nailed down.
Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:35 utc | 239
###########
Did you have any input into that or is it directly from the state department briefings?
Imagine an American accusing any other country of being corrupt.
The chutzpah.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 17:05 utc | 262

There is a very strong Anglo-American Supremicist theme running through most of the comments posted here.
Posted by: OldFart | Oct 2 2024 11:07 utc | 65
===============
I don’t see this, at least in any social/cultlural/ethical/moral aspect.
But assessments of weaponsy may sound Anglo-USA supremacist.
Though I can’t say I have noticed this, except in the context of US air and EW support for Israel’s detonations and other crimes and military support of genocide. Horror at this certainly does not seem to imply “supremacist” attitudes.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 2 2024 17:08 utc | 263

Sheesh. Argentina’s annual inflation rate as of August 2024 was 236,7%. In March it even exceeded 280%. This is much higher than under Fernandez. Poverty has *risen*. …
Posted by: jure | Oct 2 2024 16:49 utc | 254


So you confirm that inflation is dropping. Also, check out MoM change. 4%. Also dropping and points to a 48% annualized rate.
A few months ago Milei devalued the BS “official” exchange rate and allowed it to continue to depreciate within a band. The market initially responded by spiking the real exchange rate called the blue dollar rate. Since then the blue dollar rate has been dropping, and for the first time is now lower than the day Milei was sworn in. The official rate and the real rate will intersect somewhere around 1,100, at which point the peso will be allowed to freely trade and inflation will be over with. It looks like that will occur around the end of the year.
Looking at your graphs, you can see the effect as inflation continues to drop. Compare the timing of the drop in inflation to the timing of when the real peso rate started to appreciate in value.
Link to Graph
In other words, the Argentine peso, when gaged by the real rate you can exchange it on the streets, is appreciating in value.

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 17:09 utc | 264

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 16:07 utc | 222
Could you please send me the mathematical model describing how a subsonic or sonic rocket can stop a hypersonic rocket…Thanks in advance!

Posted by: Larsbo | Oct 2 2024 17:10 utc | 265

Posted by: Dave | Oct 2 2024 16:42 utc | 244 “The lightning “fragments” we saw in the yesterday attack were exo-atmosferic submunition of these missiles clearly marching to the target with the same trajectory of the “complete” missiles (warheads), NOT fragments of hit missiles as the MSM and USA said”
Do you have any links to back that up? Lots of links don’t support that kind of warhead in the missile:
https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-threat-and-proliferation/todays-missile-threat/iran/ghadr-110/
https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/emad/

Posted by: Ed4 | Oct 2 2024 17:10 utc | 266

Is it that the attacking missile is _actively engaged in evasive maneuver_ as of some point in the missile’s trajectory toward its target?
My guess – just a guess – is that these hypersonic attacking missiles are engaged in unpredictable – no matter what math you use – course-corrections during the late stages of the missile’s traversal to target – e.g. when it’s in-range of ground-based interdiction.
And if there are small but “erratic” course changes, happening almost continuously, then the speed delta between the attacking missile and the intercepting object counts for a lot, right?
In addition to the velocity delta, the computational speed of the interceptor…
and the distance-delta between two devices (sensors use radiation, radiation takes time to travel)
all has to be really messing with the interceptor’s ability to hit the incoming missile. It’s almost more luck than skill if it actually does hit it.
With that in mind, I’d say the U.S. missile-defense people are plenty good enough at math; they’re just encountering a device that’s a big step ahead of where they are at the moment.
And I’m wondering if anyone’s going to be able to reliably shoot down a hypersonic missile that’s engaged in these sort of continous-but-random evasive course corrections.
Do you agree with my assertion, or do you have other info bearing on the problem?
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 2 2024 16:31 utc | 235
I said ‘appear to have’ because of all the things you say, including ‘My guess- just a guess-“. Ie, I do not know.
It is likely that there are some good mathematicians in the US MIC, but my point is that if you have a critical, complex problem to solve, you’re likely to solve it faster if there are ten thousand excellent mathematicians on the payroll than if there are ten. How do you recruit them if the pool is tiny in proportion to your population? Iran is reaping the dividends of investing heavily in STEM graduates, despite it’s smaller population.
There are certainly other factors- such as design-for-corporate-profit rather than for efficiency of performance or cost effectiveness- but the lack of competent people in the population at large means that even if the decision makers decide to prioritize the capabilities of the product, they’ll have a hard time getting up to speed. There’s are reasons the Iranians and Russians and Chinese are ‘a big step ahead.’ Lack of STEM education in the US is one of them.
As for ‘ever’ being able to reliably shoot down maneuvering hypersonics- I wouldn’t say ‘never’ but I wouldn’t hold my breath, either. If someone can solve the issues with directed energy weapons, it would obviate most of the issues. Another possibility is magnetic hyper-hyper velocity rail guns whose projectiles have decent target tracking capability and enough mass for a kinetic kill. Of course, that would involve an interceptor in the same speed class as the missiles. Another possibility is swarms of drones dense enough that they don’t need to predict with precision. Here is the slow interceptor solution, but the math is pretty involved, as far as I can see. It’s also a very short-range solution, and can’t respond well to MIRV warheads. Ie, pretty easy to design counter-measures to. So, I think hypersonic missiles rule for a quite awhile, the solutions all require pretty significant break-throughs.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 17:13 utc | 267

Abierno@1601
The critical level of importance in that BRICS conference in Russia will most probably be considered as a possible nuke target on the part of those who are rapidly losing this war of the two worlds. Seems highly probable that Russian defenses will be at highest possible level alert for any and all intrusions by air. S-500’s will be prepped in abundance, along with satellite measures.
As currently conceptualized that conference will ultimately replace the “Rules Based Order” by a multinational humanistic order of peace, prosperity and mutual goodwill. Such an outcome scares the bejeebers outta the financier elite and all their minions, tools and terminally deluded fools.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:13 utc | 268

Hey @Exile, I think you might be able to update your Merkava count:
Ali Mortada, from South Lebanon informs us that three tanks have been blown up during the most recent incursion:
Hello my enemies 👋Last update from lebanon 🔥
More than that, he claims a helicopter has been knocked out.
I’m sure Ali wouldn’t lie.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 2 2024 17:14 utc | 269

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 16:35 utc | 239
###########
Did you have any input into that or is it directly from the state department briefings?
Imagine an American accusing any other country of being corrupt.
The chutzpah.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 2 2024 17:05 utc | 261

Yeah, I worked in Venezuela. They’ll steal anything not nailed down. Ask the Colombians or Brazilians what they think of Venezuela.

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 17:14 utc | 270

Notice the genociders are back to promoting the old saw – liberate the Iranians from the Mullahs. Just a divide and conquer trick.
Real life in Teheran today
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_QAqdjd74&pp=ygUPbGlmZSBpbiB0ZWhlcmFu
Maybe the Genociders should clean up the Likud’s rape dungeons, organ harvesting, and sex slavers first

Posted by: Exile | Oct 2 2024 17:16 utc | 271

@263 JackG
Pointing to the success of economic policy in this fake USD reserve-currency paradigm is not persuasive. Anyone can succeed in the west: you just have to get on the winning side and then the media will sing your praises.
Talk to me when the Allies declare Argentina a threat to world democracy and then go after that dude.
That would speak volumes that Mr. Melei was bucking the long-arm of neoliberalism and truly looking after his country.
So far it just looks like he has begun a policy of austerity and is being rewarded by the money-printers and financial pirates in the west.
Soft power in South America at play.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Oct 2 2024 17:17 utc | 272

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 17:09 utc | 263
Really?
Those are the rates on the illegal market. 🤣🤣🤣

Posted by: Mario | Oct 2 2024 17:17 utc | 273

Could you please send me the mathematical model describing how a subsonic or sonic rocket can stop a hypersonic rocket…Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Larsbo | Oct 2 2024 17:10 utc | 264


You can hit a hypersonic missile with a hand grenade. It depends on timing and angle.
An interceptor can never “catch up” to a hypersonic, but theoretically it can hit one if fired from in front. Today the probability of this is extremely low.

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 17:18 utc | 274

LoveDonbass@1626
Yup. When machines count the votes, voters’ votes don’t count.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:19 utc | 275

Persian rugs are marvellous creations and works of art. If you don’t know that, you’re probably confusing them with the cheap mass produced plastic that’s used in the west to style homes and buildings.
I took an advanced uni course in maths about pattern formation, and our prof talked about persian rugs all the time, eyes glowing. Some people even go on expeditions in search of specific patterns. The rug dealers among them are quite sophisticated people – I got to know one a bit, an Austrian who sponsored a week-long exhibition of the artist collective I happen to be in (it began as nightwatch in a parkade for them while being allowed to live there) at his estate. The Iranian rug dealers in Hamburg have the most beautiful stores smack in the old harbour, and even passing them outside will drench you in radiating, soulful beauty.

Posted by: persiflo | Oct 2 2024 17:19 utc | 276

Arch
Yup already added those 3 to the tally (posted up thread) which stands at 219 destroyed.
I‘m guessing we‘ll see another Turkey shoot similar to the Merkava carnage when the first forced the IDF to attack Rafeh .

Posted by: Exile | Oct 2 2024 17:19 utc | 277

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 17:18 utc | 273
You can hit a hypersonic missile with a hand grenade. It depends on timing and angle.
An interceptor can never “catch up” to a hypersonic, but theoretically it can hit one if fired from in front. Today the probability of this is extremely low.
What the fuck are you talking about man…I asked for the model, not infantile bullshit.

Posted by: Larsbo | Oct 2 2024 17:22 utc | 278

Honzo@251 forgets that the US is a net energy producer. The western economy—which is by the way currently the world economy—may suffer but vested interests in the US can still profit. A lot of finance capital will likely suffer in a global economic breakdown. But the global economy still suffers financial breakdowns from time to time. Some finance capital loses out then too, but those who survive with some money still in pocket can buy a lot of property of all sorts for a song. Sure finance capital can see a problem, but individual financiers 1)think they’re smart enough to ride the storm 2)don’t directly operate the political machinery that makes the day to day decisions 3)there is no rational solution for the system because capitalism is increasingly crazy, obsolete and 4)have other interests to balance, meaning for just one example, Trump’s war with Iran risks their money but Trump’s tax policies pretty much guarantees their ill-gotten gains. How do you balance? Plus not even the rich vote only their pocket books and most of them seem to share Trump’s open contempt for workers. Yes, Harris’ verbal fealty to the “middle class” practically means the upper middle, the 9.9%, not the working classes. She’s selling to petty bourgeois with a different brand than Trump, while both simultaneously campaign among the big rich, aka big donor class. When the system is objectively crazy, the madmen can take over the asylum. The genuine madness of war with Iran is matched by the general madness of any war that isn’t for national liberation (or social revolution.) Only a few profit, but that’s enough that no course of events can be ruled out a priori because most of humanity would suffer. Would that it were so, but I don’t think it is.
The general perspective that economic chaos will lead to economic independence in Europe from necessity, rather than US-supported even more right-wing/fascist governments is what I think of accelerationism. I think that’s nonsense, nothing collapses by itself, it has to be pushed at least. And the strongest push comes from the replacement who takes over. I think this basically is how it works for both governments and economies (even most single businesses, which can lose money for a long time til a “sudden” crisis forces bankruptcy.) I reject accelerationism, and see accelerationism largely as an excuse for sectarian abstentionism, or denialism aimed at a fearsome possible future, or subterfuge. (Trump: CHAOS AGENT OF ACCELERATIONISM!!! is my current favorite example.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 2 2024 17:23 utc | 279

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 16:07 utc | 222
In order to hit a ipersonic or supersonic with a subsonic you need to detect them very early and exactly calculate the trajectory.
It’s like hitting a supercar fast driving on the highway with a slow track.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 2 2024 16:47 utc | 249
Agreed. It is doable if the highway isn’t very wide, but hypersonics are on a very wide highway in three dimensions. They aren’t very maneuverable, and probably on get one ‘jink.’ Thus, if one could calculate the last opportunity for that jink, the highway would narrow considerably, and if the jink has already occurred, the highway between the missile and the target becomes very narrow- if you’re sure of the target. The critical point is where the highway is narrowest but the truck still has enough speed to maneuver. That means extremely close-in defense, I think, which often result in an ‘interception’ that still allows the warhead to strike the target, even if not with full effect. We’ve seen this in Ukraine against ordinary missiles. It’s not a practical solution at present for hypersonics, and may never be, but see my post above re: drone swarms.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 17:26 utc | 280

The men running the US must have egos. Huge ones in the case of Austin, Biden, Sullivan, Blinken. And yet, they are simply servants of Netanyahu -an egotist himself.
There is so much prattle about how great and fantastic the US is and yet, in the case of Ukraine or especially Israel, it has no agency or sovereignty to speak of. The border is sacrificed to give money to Ukraine. Israel can do whatever it wants and the US must follow it obediently. Embargo weapons? Stop loans that quietly will be converted to grants? Of course not. Congress is bought and paid for. Whoever becomes President hardly matters.
I guess it’s small consolation that Pentagon leaders have to answer the phone and kowtow to Netanyahu, knowing that they can’t do otherwise. It makes you wonder how far Israeli behavior would have to go to actually get the US to take action or disobey Netanyahu. Death squads? Gas chambers? Palestinians forced to dig their own graves? I don’t think Nazis sodomized prisoners or protested in favor of it. I guess war crimes may come with some creativity.
In the end, US power will be drained and destroyed because the US won’t overthrow Zelensky and he won’t negotiate, no matter how ruined his nation is. Maybe nobody wants his job anyway ( “uh….we lost, folks”). In both Ukraine and Israel, fanatics have permanent veto power over peace. This leads directly to collapse and horror. I think academics don’t see this extremist core causing an extreme outcome, inevitably. These aren’t “normal” wars.

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 2 2024 17:27 utc | 281

karlof1@1631
Thanks for the reply. Citing those interceptor missiles dropping to the ground tells me that if any civilians not living in the immediate vicinity of the Mossad H.Q. snd similar “insulated” targets…actually did get wounded or even killed, chances are high that such casualties were the product of those failing interceptors.
As many of us are acutely aware, the most significant difference between the Resistance and the Zionistas is that the former assiduously avoids targeting civilians, while the enemies of humanity wallow in their own blood shedding of the innocent.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:27 utc | 282

JackG@1635
Did you just effectually enter a guilty plea for getting most of your info from the smoothies on Boobtoob Noose?

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:31 utc | 283

Could you please send me the mathematical model describing how a subsonic or sonic rocket can stop a hypersonic rocket…Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Larsbo | Oct 2 2024 17:10 utc | 264
Ever hear of barrage ballons? Static obstacles to WWI/WWII bombers. Limited effectiveness, but the same principle can be applied by drone swarms vs hypersonic missiles. In theory. Not at the moment.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 17:31 utc | 284

Ed4 | Oct 2 2024 16:48 utc | 250–
Iran has stated its missiles attained a 90% hit rate–telemetry returns would provide the data. Iran has its own ISR suite of satellites over the region that would receive such telemetry:

Iran’s forces used hypersonic Fattah missiles for the first time, and 90 percent of its missiles successfully hit their targets in Israel, the Revolutionary Guards said, according to Reuters.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202410/1320664.shtml
The linked Global Times article has more from the Chinese POV. All the actors with ISR now know how effective the strikes were. According to the screaming meemie, Iran doesn’t have the right to self-defense, which it claimed as its justification for the attack.
In Moscow, Lavrov met with the heads of diplomatic missions of Arab states accredited in Moscow. Here’s the short PR. Lavrov also met with the Consultative Council of the Sultanate of Oman Hassan al-Maawali, Oman being one of the major conduits for Russian consultations with the wider region. The very short PR is here. So, lots of stirring happening with very few leaks. Putin’s demeanor at his appearance today with Moscow Mayor Sobyanin at the Rudnevo Industrial Park was quite bright as the 4-minute video showed.
Relative to the status of STEM grads, the key to all future advancements begins with materials science of all types–structural, chemical, etc. Here’s part of the blurb the Kremlin provided:

Rudnevo Industrial Park is one of the six production clusters of the Technopolis Special Economic Zone Moscow”. Here, in particular, the Federal Center for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles has been formed aviation systems, the production building of the Almaz-Antey Air and Space Defense Concern and PJSC Yakovlev was built.
Platform for practical training on the basis of “Rudnevo” is located in a building with an area of more than nine thousand square meters and is 21 workshops and laboratories in which students will be able to master competencies at the address request of residents of the industrial park and other Moscow enterprises. The development of professional skills will be to study in such areas as mechanical engineering, electronics, production automation, aviation industry, including unmanned aerial vehicles.
In the current academic year, training in Rudnevo will be able to: three thousand students from 15 colleges in Moscow. Classes will be conducted by 42 masters of industrial training and 40 employees of resident enterprises industrial park.

Russia’s program to have thirty such industrial/technology parks throughout Russia by 2030 is moving ahead and will provide excellent accompaniment to its already well-know Academy of Sciences structure. Meanwhile, Outlaw universities fire anyone for political incorrectness regardless their importance.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 2 2024 17:35 utc | 285

As many of us are acutely aware, the most significant difference between the Resistance and the Zionistas is that the former assiduously avoids targeting civilians, while the enemies of humanity wallow in their own blood shedding of the innocent.
Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:27 utc | 281
Agreed. However, accidents happen. There is video of a pretty large crater in the roadway in what looks like a residential area, which is probably one of the hypersonic missiles or its ‘decoy’ sub-munitions that was successfully intercepted. It looks too big to be from an interceptor warhead, and most of them are programmed to detonate once they’ve missed their target to avoid damaging things on the ground any more than can be avoided. This too can fail, of course, but the crater still looks too large to me.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 17:35 utc | 286

Konami | Oct 2 2024 9:13 utc | 23
*** IMO, WW1 didn’t come about by accident but by necessity: the crisis of capitalism couldn’t be addressed by lesser means. ***
Correct but — importantly — not entirely so.
A group of top people (of which Churchill was at that time a comparatively junior member) in the UK were determined to bring about such a war. They, as later became evident, wanted to triumph over not only the central European powers but ideally Russia as well.
Though — thanks largely to investment abroad (instead of reinvestment at home) via the City of London — Britain was already falling behind the USA and Germany where industry was concerned, there was also an imperialist mindset at work as it had been for centuries … cooking up strife abroad which could be exploited for the power-gain of the UK Establishment.
The top of the UK Establishment is still at it today, despite having lost their empire.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 2 2024 17:36 utc | 287

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 17:26 utc | 279
Subsonic simply have no time to intercept anything super or hypersonic.
Consider that the interception max range of a patriot is more or less 50km.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 2 2024 17:37 utc | 288

Posted by: JackG | Oct 2 2024 17:18 utc | 273
The best chance of hitting anything is shooting at it directly from the front. That means there is 0 relative lateral (or x axis movement and only horizontal y axis movement). Once you start shooting from the ‘side’ or adding lateral movement with vertical movement the odds will drop rapidly.
The cases when you get to shoot at anything directly from the front is extremely low.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 2 2024 17:37 utc | 289

egos. Huge ones in the case of Austin, Biden, Sullivan, Blinken. And yet, they are simply servants of Netanyahu
Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 2 2024 17:27 utc | 280

It is mistake (or a deliberate misdirection) to ascribe service to an ideology as service to an individual.
Netanyahu pales in importance to as compared to “bourgeoisie democracy”. Bibi is just a dime store icon to an obsolete idea.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 2 2024 17:40 utc | 290

Dave@1642
Acutely incisive posting. Thanks for that. A bit concerned about the aircraft carrier possibility of being targeted by the Iranians. Highly likely they would never do that against the current carrier in the Arabian Sea…the USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
Please consider the symbological, psychological impact of sinking that iconic name.
If the Abraham Lincoln is indeed attacked or even sunk, we can rest assured that the strike was a FALSE FLAG operation, carefully concocted to squeeze the lemon of popular sentiment extremely hard. All those flag-waving Born Agains and other deracinated, miseducated and terminally deluded fools would rise up as one to demand the nuking of Iran.

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:41 utc | 291

Posted by: Keme | Oct 2 2024 16:34 utc | 237
“Iranians are in a difficult position. Devastated by America’s proxy war from Saddam’s invasion, decades of sanctions, and countless assassinations of allies, military leaders, and physicists..”
Whilst, I have not been to Iran, I have met many Iranians in the UK. They come across to me, as highly intelligent, refined, and a little shy. The impression I gained, is that they were more civilised than me, and the last thing Iranians wanted to do was go to war. They were forced into it 40 years ago, and didn’t appreciate it – but have been taunted by crazed American Neocons ever since eg Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran – John McCain – A total perversion of a Good Beach Boys song.
When confronted with such insanity from high levels of the US Government, yet the standard of education with regards to physics, maths, engineering, and basic human morality, is far higher in Iran, than the USA (the UK is as bad now), what did anyone expect them to do, except prepare for the future, when these lunatics escape from their cages and mental hospitals.
The Iranians have been extremely restrained, under the most outrageous provocation.
All they want is Peace….But The West has now gone Totally Mad.
I used to proud to be English, now I am surrounded by total lunatics, at all levels in Government.
Germany is even worse.
Many on here on MOA have been excellent, finding out wtf has been going on over the last 24 hours.
Well done,and Thank You

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Oct 2 2024 17:42 utc | 292

Honzo@251 forgets that the US is a net energy producer. The western economy—which is by the way currently the world economy—may suffer but vested interests in the US can still profit.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 2 2024 17:23 utc | 278
steven t johnson forgets, or perhaps never understood, that the US is a capitalist economy, and doesn’t currently have the ability to confine energy sales to the home market, and the energy sector would oppose the loss of profits unless they were allowed to raise prices to global market levels- which would still cripple the US economy, even if the absolute amount of oil necessary to maintain production/consumption in the US domestic market. BUT, since most production of consumer goods, and many subcomponents of heavy industry, are produced offshore, devastating those countries would have a major, very rapid, knock-on effect on the US. A very destabilizing knock-on effect, with many paths to regime change and expropriation of the bankers and industrialists. So, acceleration is not required, and anyone living in the western world ought rationally to hope for as slow a fall from empire as can be managed. Even the capitalists.
Personally, I would be willing to offer them a Putin Bargain: you can keep your money, but you can’t have political power in any form. They’ll dwindle away just like the English aristocracy- keeping a bit of wealth and status here and there, but of no real consequence.
And Putin knew what to do with the people who refused the offer.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 17:44 utc | 293

Edd4@1648
Are you dead-sure positive that Russia is not feeding Iranian intel with satellite information on the success of their strikes?

Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:45 utc | 294

we can rest assured that the strike was a FALSE FLAG operation
Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 2 2024 17:41 utc | 290

It doesn’t matter what flag a carrier sinking blamed on.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 2 2024 17:45 utc | 295

If the child-murderers attack the Iranian nuclear facilities (for example NPP that make the fissile material) as they do to Osirak in Iraq but this time a working plant full of radioactive material, after few hour of the strike some hundreds missiles like that used yesterday or even more powerful with bunker buster capacity, will hit DIMONA destroying with the complete destruction of the plant and the liberation of tons of radioactive material, as would be in the case of the Iranian nuclear plant, so after this moment Occupied Palestine will be immediately and fully evacuated, of course disarmed to Egypt and Jordan, where I suppose the authorities will confine them in refugee camps just to avoid disturbs with the native population.
If the child-murderers use nukes to destroy the underground missiles cities, I am sure the same number of nukes will explode in Occupied Palestine in a not very distant future.
If the USA puppets use conventional means to attack Iran, thousands of American soldiers and sailors will be dead in some weeks, and if the USA would nuke Iran, I am quite sure the same number of nukes will explode inside USA in a not very distant future and all the American bases around the world will be attacked, and probably WWIII will start with Russia and China in the Iranian side with the probably end of the human race.
If they value their lives, the settlers, the Pentagon and the USA citizens can and should stop the USA puppets politicians managed by the AIPAC and stop Bibi immediately before is too late.

Posted by: Dave | Oct 2 2024 17:50 utc | 296

According to Chris Cristoforou, Iran informed the US of the imminent attack. Why?

Posted by: horseguards | Oct 2 2024 17:52 utc | 297

Journalist Youssef Fares:
“Israeli Broadcasting Authority: Security Cabinet Decides to Implement Harsh Response to Iranian Attack
Israeli Broadcasting Authority, citing political sources: Our response to Iran will be harsh, but it will not lead to a regional war.”
…because they say so ?
🙁

Posted by: Ornot | Oct 2 2024 17:56 utc | 298

The missile interceptor design must be based on certain inputs, like range, speed and direction of target. That will create a path in three dimensional space with x, y, z coordinates. Then they can use vectoral analysis to calculate the position of the target at every time point through the movement of x, y, z axis.
Hence your interceptor can plot an interception point based on its own speed. The larger the relative speed difference, the more lead you will need to reach the interception point in time, leaving more potential for errors.
You can draw a three dimensional coordinate system, give the target a given start point. A vector always has a direction and force ( for example 3i + 1j + 1k) you know how many x,y,z it moves in a time unit. Then your interceptor has to calculate a intersection point based on its own speed in x, y, z, depending on its starting point.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 2 2024 17:57 utc | 299

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 2 2024 17:35 utc | 284
Great links, as always. I just wish the last vid had subtitles (or better yet, I understood Russian) so I could hear what the poor, downtrodden women were telling the ruthless patriarchal oppressor!
China, Russia and Iran are clearly reaping the benefits of long-term prioritization of STEM education with an emphasis on practice. I remember that when I was a child, US public education was touted as the envy of the world, but even then (1960s) it was pathetic compared to Russia’s. No doubt they took a major hit with the Yeltsin coup and aftermath, but they had a good foundation and have obviously been building on it non-stop since Putin came to power.

Posted by: Honzo | Oct 2 2024 17:58 utc | 300