BRICS Sensation No. 1 - India's Turn From U.S. To China
Some commentators wrote that this blog, and others, have neglected the current BRICS summit. They are right to a point.
BRICS is a long term project. It is the development of an economic and political conglomerate of supernational organizations designed to be an alternative to the ones created by the 'West' after the second word war.
There are several misunderstandings and a lot of wishful thinking about BRICS in alternative media.
BRICS will not replace the U.S. dollar. Any short term plan to replace of the currently most important global medium of financial transactions (not of real stuff trade) is unrealistic. Yves at Naked Capitalism has written several pieces to lay that out.
BRICS is not a military alliance. Iran joining BRICS does not mean that Russia or China or anyone else will come to its defense should the U.S./Israel attack the country. While they would probably provide some help in the background both will likely avoid any direct involvement.
Building BRICS will take several decades. Ad hoc reporting of and commentating one of its summits is not of much value without detailing the larger contexts. It will do that whenever the subject deserves it.
During the current BRICS session the most sensational issue with long term consequences actually happened shortly before the summit.
India has dropped the U.S. friendly anti-China policies it had implemented during the first two terms of the Modi government. It is (again) making nice with China and Russia while shunning U.S. attempts to make it a sidekick for U.S. policies in Asia.
This piece in Asia Times provides the background:
India and China have recently agreed to disengage from their prolonged border standoff in the western sector of the India-China Himalayan border on the sidelines of 16th BRICS summit. Tensions have simmered since June 15, 2020, after 20 Indian and an unknown number of Chinese soldiers were killed in a high-mountain clash.
...
On the geopolitical front, meanwhile, India lost significantly. It once viewed South Asia and the Indian Ocean as its traditional sphere of influence, but after becoming a US ally, none of its neighboring countries remain within its sphere. Instead, India has arguably become more of a subordinate ally to the US.
...
This was evident when the US conducted a Freedom of Navigation Operation (FONOPS) in the Indian Ocean on April 7, 2021, which sparked a strong backlash in Indian media and academia, despite India being a US partner. Additionally, the US has been accused of fueling anti-India sentiment in neighboring countries and covertly helping to oust pro-Indian governments in Sri Lanka, Nepal, and the Maldives. [The author leaves out the recent U.S. coup in Bangladesh - b]
This made India realize that the US expects it to relinquish its “strategic autonomy” and that India’s claims to a regional sphere of influence in South Asia are unacceptable to Washington.
...
Ultimately, after four years of experimenting with foreign policy, the Modi government came to understand that China’s cooperation is essential for India’s economic development. The prime minister’s economic adviser argued that China would likely refrain from interfering in India’s border issues due to its dependence on India, coupled with the prospect of increased Chinese investment.
...
The first and second terms of Modi’s government have marked one of the worst decades in India’s history in regard to international relations. During this period, India has incurred unprecedented opportunity costs while experimenting with international and geopolitical strategies. In his third term, Modi is looking to reverse the course by shifting from the US to China.
The piece argues correctly that it was U.S. arrogance towards India which has caused this change.
India's making nice with China, and its shunning of the U.S., is an immense geopolitical shift. The two biggest countries of this planet by populations plus Russia, the biggest country by landmass, are again friendly to each other. They will coordinate their moves wherever it is in their tri-lateral interest.
This shift in relations will have similar huge consequences as the recent reestablishment of relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran.
This is a disaster for the U.S. 'pivot to Asia'.
But U.S. and other 'western' media, have barely reported on it.
Posted by b on October 25, 2024 at 10:27 UTC | Permalink
next page »The US Empire is stubbornly persisting in its delusional belief that it can swim against the tide of History and just assert the reality it wants, rather than adapting to the reality that is. As the old adage goes, those the gods would destroy they first make mad.
Posted by: Sandgropper | Oct 25 2024 10:44 utc | 2
German Chancellor Scholz to meet PM Modi today for bilateral talks
Scholz arrived in Delhi late on Thursday as part of his three-day official visit to India.
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 25 2024 10:51 utc | 3
When turned around so relatively quickly it is all in all a blessing in disguise if the lesson was learnt. Most of Europe should envy India for being able to do this; they obviously should do the same but "can't".
India being back in the non-US camp is also very good for Iran or at least I think so but I don't know any more about this than I've picked up over the last decade and a half from various non-western news sources.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 25 2024 10:52 utc | 4
But U.S. and other 'western' media, have barely reported on it.
Posted by b on October 25, 2024 at 10:27 UTC | Permalink
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Western media has its head in the sand. In all my life I've never seen such an obstinate ignorance from the press. They don't even try to invent an alternate reality. They simply ignore the obvious present situation in the belief, like the coyote in the roadrunner cartoons, that suspended animation can persist so long as it is not recognized.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 11:04 utc | 5
The Western media has been tying itself up in discursive knots regarding its coverage of the 2024 summit and the best it can do is emphasise the geopolitical faultlines between respective member states. However, even the Perfidious Albion Broadcasting Corporation has been forced to admit:
For years, Western critics have dismissed Brics as a relatively inconsequential entity. But this past week, at its annual summit in Russia, the group triumphantly showcased just how far it has come.
Of course it spent the rest of the article emphasising just why BRICS isn't in any meaningful way, a challenge to the black iron prison of Western hegemony, but reading between the lines of the media coverage, one can clearly sense their cognitive maps no longer model the BRICS actuality.
In this spirit, I modestly propose two alternative titles for this article:
1) All in all it's just another BRICS in the crumbling Western Wall
2) Let Them Eat BRICS
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly2verz8ggo
Posted by: FakeBelieve | Oct 25 2024 11:16 utc | 6
'This is a disaster for the U.S. 'pivot to Asia'.'
Indeed. Slowly but surely, it seems that the only things 'pivoting to Asia' are geopolitical influence, economic growth, development, civility, peace and prosperity, while the West slowly eats itself to stay alive.
I guess that is only fair, when cannibalism was your major source of sustenance, that one should feed on their own rotting corpse once the prey becomes out of reach.
Posted by: Rubiconned | Oct 25 2024 11:25 utc | 7
BRICS will not replace the U.S. dollar
Except they are already doing it. This summit ended with the declaration of creating a common payment infrastructure to facilitate inter-community payments. A plan for digital currency to use in international settlements. And even a grain exchange plan. ALL of those will reduce the presence of the dollar in the block. The earlier two will definitely break the SWIFT dominance.
Nobody says that the dollar will be completely gone. Like any other country's currency, there would be those who still hold it. But it is no longer what it was just a few years ago.
Posted by: Dodrey Dougherton | Oct 25 2024 11:27 utc | 8
The China-India border clashes reminded me of a half-assed version of fake wrestling. Apparently more 'combatants', on both sides, died from blundering off cliffs or slithering headlong into a crevass, than enemy action.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 25 2024 11:27 utc | 9
In the western merdias there is always the same propaganda: we the democracies, them the dictatorships...
Let's see:
- when the president is supported by less than a quarter of the citizens it is a democracy;
- when the president is supporter by more than 50% of the citizens it is a dictatorship;
- when everything is done to enrich the wealthiest it is a democracy;
- when everything is done to put out of poverty the majority of the people it is a dictatorship;
- when a government gives the ressources of the country to western companies it is a democracy;
- when a government uses the ressources of the country for its own people it is a dictatorship.
For dictatorships, hip hip hip hourrah!
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 11:29 utc | 10
Iran joining BRICS does not mean that Russia or China or anyone else will come to its defense should the U.S./Israel attack the country
That's also incorrect. Russia and China already signed a treaty that is an alliance in all but name only. Same for Russia and Iran. Russian ships suddenly visit Caracas and park offshore whenever the US starts babbling about invading it. For some reason, "The House of Socialist Fishermen" in Venezuela seems to have a knack for catching all the paramilitaries, color revolutionists, CIA mercenaries and agents the US seems to send to Venezuela for regime change. * cough Russian intelligence cough *. On the other side of the world, the unified SCO - BRICS 'global security' paradigm is also an alliance in everything except in its name.
Also, Asia Times is not a non-biased source - it frequently publishes pieces that actually help the US policies, so it downplaying BRICS does not make BRICS any less important or impactful.
The simple reason for India openly doing what it was silently doing and publicly pivoting to BRICS is that the BRICS cemented itself as a new global paradigm that can protect itself. Including, by using weapons.
Posted by: Dodrey Dougherton | Oct 25 2024 11:33 utc | 11
The list of BRICS candidates is quite impressive with ALgeria, Indonesia, Nigeria, Malaysia, Cuba, etc.
The west against the rest of the world when the west will be a minority in term of populations and economies.
Contries of the world, unite!
To destroy the 5 century old western hegemony (a history of submitting, looting, massacring and genociding).
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 11:38 utc | 12
I've had constant abuse thrown at me for at least 7 years. First on the Saker blog and On here, because I always talked about money. I was considered a money troll. Many people were sick to the back teeth of hearing about it. I don't blame them.
There were 3 reasons for that.
1) For many years now I understood just how important BRICS would be.
2) To understand what BRICS was going to offer to the world. You had to first understand what each nation already has and how they differ.
3) It was clear to me very early on, many people didn't have that understanding, so how were they ever going to understand BRICS.
For example: If you actually believed nobody will by the bonds, or fully sovereign nation states can go bankrupt, or mis understand the deficit and debt, not recognise the massive disadvantage the Eurozone has v's fully sovereign states under their gold standard model, what bank reserves ( domestic and foreign ) are really for and think taxes fund spending in fully sovereign nation states, struggle at trade and think surplus is good deficit is bad, FX is strong is good, weak is bad, Putin's exports funds Putin's war etc, etc.
Then understanding the BRICS report and the changes proposed was going to be difficult. If not difficult, then misrepresented by not understanding what countries already have.
I attempted to do this free from ideology and politics and use the actual balance sheets instead. Because most people are embedded in one or both. Tried to avoid those conflicts.
It has been very difficult at times , but now the time has arrived that BRICS is so important. I hope you have a better understanding why I did it. Will continue to do so.
Most people aren't interested it is just not their thing. Some people wish they had a better understanding when reading the BRICS report as it is like a foreign language to them.
There will be places to go to for help.
Karlof and Michael Hudson will keep on top of it. MMT'rs will be all over it like a rash. That IS their thing. They were the first to break down the sanctions for everybody. Long before anyone else.
HERE:
https://new-wayland.com/blog/how-russian-gas-is-paid-for/
Nobody will be kept in the dark. It will be a monetary silencing free zone. Just stay clear of the monetary silencers who always predict a storm when the sun is shining outside.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Oct 25 2024 11:40 utc | 13
Thank you, b, for this post, shedding some light on the importance of the resolution of the India-China border dispute, as well as for the linkage to the Asia Times article, which provides background on the less-than-productive (for India) attempt at building a US-India relationship.
Posted by: Eclair | Oct 25 2024 11:40 utc | 14
IMO, If the value of the Basket of Currencies ( BRICS ) is tied to market value (price) of the $USD at transaction time.. (like Belize does: $2 Belize dollars = $1 USD.) the holders of any of the currencies in the BRICS basket of currencies within BRICs can then trade for the same value and on the same terms as it now does with $USD..Inside BRICS trades become indifferent to which currency is used for trades? I think referencing the value of all currencies to the $USD also has the advantage to BRICS members of reducing in large measure the need for foreign reserves?
As I see it, the difference is within BRICS trades can happen in currencies which trade outside of the surveillance by non BRICS member nations. So the impact of non BRICS sanctions applied to BRICS member trades is nearly disappeared?
Probably the BRICS nations do not need a currency tied to gold or even a common to BRICS currency when they tie the value of all currencies in the BRICS basket to the value of the $USD at transaction time.
Anyone see it differently?
Posted by: snake | Oct 25 2024 11:48 utc | 15
too scents | Oct 25 2024 11:04 utc | 5
Western media has its head in the sand. In all my life I've never seen such an obstinate ignorance from the press.
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This kind of erroneous assessment illustrates perfectly the wealth divide between the astute and ignorant.
Why is it so difficult for some to understand the basics of hybrid war? Media control accompanied by narrative dominance is just as important as actual kinetic military conflict and weaponized economic and financial policies (sanctions).
Western news reporting isn't as tangible as a rifle you can physically hold in your hand, or a bank notice of a transaction cancellation, but it's very very real and a critical part of the western triad.
A lot of alt.media fills space by rebuttal or refutation; even that level of effort is somewhat redundant. I would suggest monitoring the MSM for what they're really saying (or not saying) and act (bet/invest) accordingly.
Posted by: Markw | Oct 25 2024 11:50 utc | 16
b, quite rightly, views events and processes in context and consequently has a cautious approach to BRICS.
A critical approach is always needed.
Many questions are being raised about the BRICS, so I share some footnoted in a paper I read recently:
Warnings about the possibility for BRICS to become a motor of constituting “neoliberalism with southern characteristics” (V.Prashad: Neoliberalism with Southern characteristics, The rise of the BRICS”, Rosa Luxemburg Stiftung, New York Office, www.rosaluxnzc.org) have been forcefully articulated.
Here we note several. Vijay Prashad, states: “The entire BRICS project is centered around the question of whether countries at the nether end of the neo-colonial system can break out of that system through mutual trade and cooperation, or whether the larger countries (including those in the BRICS) will inevitably enjoy asymmetries of power and scale against smaller countries and therefore reproduce inequalities rather than transcend them.” Cf. BRICS and World Balance, Consortium News, Vol. 29, No 225, August 17,2003, https://consortiumnews.com
In the article Western Imperialism and the Role of Sub-imperialism in the Global South, by Patrick Bond, Alexandra Garcia, Miguel Borba (Cadtm.org, 13January 2021) the authors “question whether BRICS is capable of reversing historical, unequal relations of trade and investment between the ‘core” and ‘peripheries”, and we identify in some cases, an uncomfortable middle ground ‘sub-imperialism”.
William Robinson, in the article The Unbearable Manichaeism of the “Anti-Imperialist” left (The philosophical Salon, https://thep-hilosophicalsalon.com August 2023) criticizes BRICS for obscuring internal class contradictions along with the web of transnational class relations into which they are enmeshed. BRICS according to him “do not represent an alternative to global capitalism and the domination of transnational capital, but they do signal the shift towards a more multipolar and balanced inter-state system within the global capitalist order. But such a multipolar inter-state system remains part of a brutal, exploitative, global capitalist world in which the BRICS capitalists and states are as much committed to control and exploitation of the global working and popular classes as are their Northern counterparts”.
Patrick Bond has authored a number of papers and co-edited books about the BRICS, of which I note here:
BRICS and Resistance in Africa
Description:
By challenging and expanding the debates surrounding BRICS involvement in Africa, this collection offers new insight into resistance to globalization in the global South.
Though initially considered a welcome counterweight to Western interest across Africa, the BRICS are increasingly being viewed as another example of foreign interference and exploitation.
BRICS and Resistance in Africa explores the varied forms of African resistance being developed in response to the growing influence of the BRICS.
Its case studies cover such instances as the opposition to China's One Belt One Road initiative in East Africa; resistance to the BRICS' oil activities in the Niger Delta; and the role of the BRICS in Zimbabwe's political transition.
The contributors expose the contradictions between the group's rhetoric and its real impact, as well as the complicity of local elites in serving as proxies for the BRICS nations.
https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/brics-and-resistance-in-africa-9781786996312/
Posted by: JB | Oct 25 2024 11:51 utc | 17
Ukraine Weekly Update (BRICS of Hope), 25th October: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-brics-of-hope
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Oct 25 2024 11:52 utc | 18
b-
Thank You for this post! I truly appreciate your elucidation of issues which are puzzling to me, as I am completely un-schooled on this subject. And many thanks to the commenters!
Posted by: OldFart | Oct 25 2024 11:52 utc | 19
b,
I think you are completely wrong on this one.
BRICS is a monumental game-changer rapidly unfolding before our eyes.
The West is in complete denial about it.
Same dynamic as what is happening in Ukraine.
Posted by: Facekicker | Oct 25 2024 12:03 utc | 20
India just had too looks at the neighboring countries to know what the west is ready to do to keep the whole region as a punching ball for China. Pakistan ? Coup against Imran Kahn , Bangladesh ? Coup , Sri-Lanka ? Economic assassination by the IMF , Myanmar ? Perpetual civil war engineered by the West for decade kept them under, Thailand ? Chronic political instability fueled by NED's "NGOs"...
But here came that Russian dude with cheap oil and efficient weapons against "the hegemon's armies" to sell , and with the road from China to Eastern Africa, Indian merchants are becoming rich as before the English came to ruin their country ...
Why did India choose the BRICS ? Because the Anglo-Saxons have sold them only war against China in a lousy "alliance" after having drive them into misery for two century. They have seen the fate of Zelensky and Western European countries, also plundered since the 90's. Now they will have to brace themselves for a bit on the financial markets but still ; a better option than fighting with the Chinese.
Posted by: Savonarole | Oct 25 2024 12:05 utc | 21
As noted by Simplicius, the BRICS 2024 meeting kicked off on a very symbolic date: October 24.
October 24, 1945 was the date of the signing of the UN Charter. It was also the date of execution of the Norwegian WWII collaborator Vidkun Quisling, whose name will forever mean 'traitor'.
October 24, 1945 was beginning of a new era led by the UN. Maybe we will come to see that October 24, 2024 was when the relay baton was handed over from the UN to BRICS.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 25 2024 12:05 utc | 22
I've had constant abuse thrown at me for at least 7 years. First on the Saker blog and On here, because I always talked about money. I was considered a money troll.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Oct 25 2024 11:40 utc | 13
Actually I thought your posts on money were very well written. Thanks for writing it. Perhaps its more of a case where the people who has a background in finance already knows about it and people who don't, don't understand it.
Posted by: Autumn | Oct 25 2024 12:07 utc | 23
Not only that India and China has thrown off usa/UK colonial meddling by making agreements on 2 border disputes including Galwan Valley. Left purposely as unsolvable. India wants a future, and will get it but not from an empire anchor around its neck
Posted by: Hankster | Oct 25 2024 12:16 utc | 24
https://tvbrics.com/en/
This is the official media outlet dedicated to BRICS news. English language. Enjoy
Posted by: Hankster | Oct 25 2024 12:21 utc | 25
IMO, If the value of the Basket of Currencies ( BRICS ) is tied to market value (price) of the $USD at transaction time.. (like Belize does: $2 Belize dollars = $1 USD.) the holders of any of the currencies in the BRICS basket of currencies within BRICs can then trade for the same value and on the same terms as it now does with $USD..Inside BRICS trades become indifferent to which currency is used for trades? I think referencing the value of all currencies to the $USD also has the advantage to BRICS members of reducing in large measure the need for foreign reserves?
As I see it, the difference is within BRICS trades can happen in currencies which trade outside of the surveillance by non BRICS member nations. So the impact of non BRICS sanctions applied to BRICS member trades is nearly disappeared?
Probably the BRICS nations do not need a currency tied to gold or even a common to BRICS currency when they tie the value of all currencies in the BRICS basket to the value of the $USD at transaction time.
Anyone see it differently?
Posted by: snake | Oct 25 2024 11:48 utc | 15
Russia has already indicated they do not want the BRICS currency to be tied to the value of USD.
Think about it this way, the more successful the BRICS trading system is, the less relevant USD will be. But if the BRICS currency is tied to the USD, you'd have a perverse situation where holders of the BRICS currency will find their holdings become less valuable the more successfully they trade with each other.
Posted by: Autumn | Oct 25 2024 12:22 utc | 26
Media control accompanied by narrative dominance is just as important as actual kinetic military conflict
Posted by: Markw | Oct 25 2024 11:50 utc | 16
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No. Media control makes practically no difference in the eventual outcome of what is essentially an economic event driven by resource limits.
Make believe wealth cannot cure hunger.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 12:23 utc | 27
- I don't buy into the idea that the BRICs are going to be the foundation of the new world order. I think that the era of socalled "superpowers" is over and that the era of "regional powers" has arrived.
Posted by: WMG | Oct 25 2024 12:42 utc | 28
BRICS will not replace the U.S. dollar.
Quite - and thanks for the directions to Yves's pieces.
US Economic, military and Soft Power all happened. They fell from top place I'd say 9, 6 and 3 years ago respective. The dollar marches on strongly and will for a long time yet.
The twin deficits are evidence of dollar strength not of weakness.
Posted by: Michael Droy | Oct 25 2024 12:46 utc | 30
alas, much expectation about BRICS will continue for decades. During this time Brics will not be bothered by what is now failing and devoured by entropy. But one thing is clear, there is no going back to the threat of the dollar destroying all that touch it. Midas learned a lesson that rings true today.
And please beware, people that get their knowledge and expertise from the western press are delusional now. They repeat tropes that haven't been accurate for a few decades and are disintegrating before our lying eyes. Sadly, these pundits hold on for dear life regarding what they want to happen, and take the smallest of clues to heart and continue the willful blindness. The forest for the trees issue of perception.
Even when they know the source of their contamination is a think tank that doesn't think but hopes to influence or dreams to rule. The currency backed by nothing always fails and history delivers the truth of it.
And greed will continue after the BRICS have abandoned the prognostication to those that just can't believe it could happen. Watch the purchasing power falter and fade. 50+ years now of ignoring the inevitable.
Grab one of those trees and hang on tight. Change is forever.
Posted by: Tard | Oct 25 2024 12:48 utc | 31
No. Media control makes practically no difference in the eventual outcome of what is essentially an economic event driven by resource limits.Make believe wealth cannot cure hunger.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 12:23 utc | 27
that is true, but media control has the benefit of simply moving "their" desired outcome a little bit further back.
todays people in the eu are beeing constantly bombarded with our regime media narrative, and this basically indoctrinates them to hate *insert current bad guy here* for the forseeable future, thus making sure that the conflict never really ends.
see the childrens books that were found in "ukrainian" kindrgartens and schools, donated by usaid etc, that basically teach them to hate their neighbours?
the media does this to the adult people. the so called "highly educated" that are completely stupid to even notice that they are beeing formed to be the next disposable idiot.
someone once said that "if you rule the 3 M, you rule a nation"(paraphrasing). the three M beeing money, military, and media.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Oct 25 2024 12:57 utc | 32
India joining china and RF would represent roughly 3 billion people and 30% of global GDP (PPP)
That would be a core bigger than G7 in GDP and 4 times its population.
But of course even if india has steered away from the US it does so from an almost vassal position it had reached.
It's good news but far from even brazil's siting on the fence from time to time.
my 2 rupees
Brazil getting off the fence,building and leading an american block, and africa (particularly sahel and above) might be bigger game-changers in the long term.
As B well mentions, it is only an economic-political block, not military, and with enough doubtful members in their allegiances (brazil and india currently, turkey and KSA soon)
Things might get more confusing before a true clarification occurs.
P.S. the rump ukraine induction into BRICS might be a fun way to rub it to the EU and US
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 13:05 utc | 33
Russia and Iran are about to sign a mutual defense agreement, so Yves is wrong...and of course, Russia could never allow an American or NATO domination of Iran, right on its borders...
Posted by: Pyrrhus | Oct 25 2024 13:07 utc | 34
Posted by: Dodrey Dougherton | Oct 25 2024 11:27 utc | 8
BRICS will not replace the U.S. dollar
Except they are already doing it. This summit ended with the declaration of creating a common payment infrastructure to facilitate inter-community payments. A plan for digital currency to use in international settlements. And even a grain exchange plan. ALL of those will reduce the presence of the dollar in the block. The earlier two will definitely break the SWIFT dominance.
I agree.
b quotes three links to Ives from NC to support his view that "BRICS will not replace the U.S. dollar" but Ives is not clear-headed in this matter.
The 1st provided link is irrelevant as it is all finds for a search for BRICS at the NC website.
The second provided link does not say that BRICS are not achieving dedollarization but rather that dedollarization with local currencies is better than dedollarization with a new common currency, as argued by an Indian minister.
The last link is to a piece written by a student of political and social sciences of an Indonesian university. Not what I would consider 'reliable' for the topic under discussion. Couldn't Ives find a better source to represent her ideological preferences? This topic is technical.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:07 utc | 35
Posted by: Dodrey Dougherton | Oct 25 2024 11:33 utc | 11
The other aspect, apart from defense, for India to consider is that BRICS offer better economic deals with new institutions that they can influence if they want to try, BRICS have larger markets, and BRICS have a lot more growth potential going into the next decades.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:15 utc | 36
While I understand that it will take time for BRICS to actually start being relevant, I don't think the rest of the world can wait 10-20-30 years until BRICS becomes a viable alternative with a common vision for the future for the rest of humanity. People here don't seem to understand that US does not sleep in the meantime and they will do all they can to disrupt any changes in the status quo. A lot of bad things can happen in decades and the only way to avoid any potential conflict between the "old world" and the "new world" is this economic part. Everybody knows that BRICS is and will not be a military alliance.
So the only option to have a voice and make a difference for neutral countries around the world is to have a system that first of all, benefit their members instead of the current one.
Words are sadly not enough without concrete actions.
Posted by: JamesBond | Oct 25 2024 13:17 utc | 37
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 11:38 utc | 12
To destroy the 5 century old western hegemony (a history of submitting, looting, massacring and genociding).
These 5 centuries of Western hegemony have been very good for the world as a whole. Nearly all advances in science, medicine and technology of the past 5 centuries came from the West, and the RoW have enjoyed these fruits as well.
The West is just senescent, having lost the stamina with very poor leadership since the 70s.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:18 utc | 38
Regarding India's turn, I will remain skeptical until its actions prove its words one way or another. I don't know how long the observation period will be because India can and does change at any time when a change fits its interests.
For the latest agreement on the border dispute between India and China, Chinese generally are skeptical without much positive views, given India's past tracking records. Some even wonder whether China yields too much to India such as retreating from one or two posts that China set up after the border conflict earlier.
So China still has to plan both ways and proceed accordingly. From China's perspective, it will be naive to trust India at face value.
Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 25 2024 13:23 utc | 39
If God forbid the U.S elections get stolen again in 2024 and we get Kameltoe Harris for president BRICS will be cemented.
Posted by: Fortuna | Oct 25 2024 13:23 utc | 40
Putin described in his press conference (linked yesterday by karlof1) three main areas of ongoing discussions hosted this last year and in the two very full day conferences by Russia as: Politics and Security; Trade and Investment; and Cultural and Humanitarian. So, while T&I are the focal point for many, that is nested within the other two branches of interest which have made this forum a magnet for the many countries which no longer wish to have, or cannot divorce themselves from subservience to a unipolar system. Were I a country I would be in line as well, western born and raised though I be.
Posted by: juliania | Oct 25 2024 13:24 utc | 41
Posted by: Autumn | Oct 25 2024 12:22 utc | 26
Yes. Dedollarization means lower worlwide demand to hold US$ and US$ denominated debt instruments. Lower demand means lower value. A devualating currency could not be used as a benchmark for cross-border trading, at least not until it reaches it lower equilibrium.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:28 utc | 42
@Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:18 utc | 38
These 5 centuries of Western hegemony have been very good for the world as a whole.I don't think the world as a whole would agree with that, especially not the millions who were killed in the process.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 25 2024 13:38 utc | 43
@JB | Oct 25 2024 11:51 utc | 17,
The opinions that you noted seem all coming from the anglo sphere or to the extension from the west, which is on the complete opposite side of BRICS. Not saying it is not worth reading but their standpoints are at least worth a grain of salt. I wonder whether these authors' mindset are well-western-imperialized, willing or unwilling, so they view things from the west's (imperial) angle and thought process. If one wants to nitpick, (s)he can always find something. It is not a perfect world and there is no one thing that fits all. If those authors were so good, why don't they try to do it themselves for the same goals? Would they do it better?
It seems to me that the west was built on preying and colonizing in the at least past 500 years. In the west's vocabulary and actions for geopolitics, do you see sharing, common good, mutual respect, or harmony? My impression is NO. Instead, what one often sees is power, power, and raw power. Nowadays, I started to think whether the west as a whole is just societies, not civilization since its actions, especially in geopolitics, is essentially barbaric.
Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 25 2024 13:42 utc | 44
@ Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:18 utc | 38
You might want to look up where the Periodic Table came from. Many scientists who went to the West. Also Indian scientists, never mind the earlier history that allowed the scientific ‘renaissance’ - the number zero and Al Gebra - that yes did actually make western science lead the world to the high points of the Collective West - the actual production and use of atomic bombs!
Of course computers, phones and innovative new technologies are still evolving all over the world as the populations get proper lifetime security from birth and decent education - great minds arise and further the progress of humanity. I dare say the development of Wheat, Rice, Agriculture etc along with boats made a greater impact on human civilisation long before the Anglo European Imperialist Era.
Again look at how many patents are being registered by China alone now compared to previous decades.
On which note , it is not yet acknowledged by the unanimity that Africa in a hundred years will be the most populus continent, with the greatest diversity of humans and the greatest resources - many scientific geniuses will emerge and change the world again by 2199 .
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 25 2024 13:45 utc | 45
I suppose Nato - will resort to some sort of violence to try and break these bonds - I read that the US forced out the leader of Bangladesh - because she wouldn't hand over Saint Martin's island to the US, to use as a staging post to hinder Chinese shipping in the region.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 25 2024 13:57 utc | 46
India was a founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement ; that spirit still lives in Indian society. It’s also worthy to note that Indian society is exceedingly proud of its anti-colonial legacy. Finally, Indian has a very long tradition of trading with Russia - including military equipment during the Soviet Period.
Buffonish Racists such as Blinken couldn’t possibly fathom these social currents.
Posted by: Exile | Oct 25 2024 14:26 utc | 47
Yes. Dedollarization means lower worlwide demand to hold US$ and US$ denominated debt instruments. Lower demand means lower value. A devualating currency could not be used as a benchmark for cross-border trading, at least not until it reaches it lower equilibrium.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:28 utc | 42
An energy currency, a food currency and maybe a materials currency and a precious currency, with strong pegs between them.
Each could present a central point for the subsets to float due to temporary issues or tech changes.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 14:27 utc | 48
An energy currency, a food currency and maybe a materials currency and a precious currency, with strong pegs between them.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 14:27 utc | 48
---
From a purely technical point of view a single currency or currency pegs was obsoleted decades ago with the development and implementation of matching engines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_matching_system
Trading between BRICS partners is just a new collection of officially sanctioned dark pools.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 14:49 utc | 49
Scholz arrived in Delhi late on Thursday as part of his three-day official visit to India.
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 25 2024 10:51 utc | 3
---------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps Scholz wants to sell Modi a used gas pipeline? Courtesy of Joe Biden. Lol
Posted by: Ed | Oct 25 2024 14:51 utc | 50
Perhaps Modi has finally come to realize that a few mountains and the odd valley in the Himalayas are not worth the bother. With a gaggle of native languages and a very diverse population, including tens of millions of only semi-digestible Muslims; the India experiment will require considerable wisdom...an area in which non-political spiritual adepts could contribute to the overall cultural equation in such manner as to gently steer governance away from the British imperialist/colonialist model with which the Subcontinent has long been saddled.
Despite all its complexity and indeed, chaos, India does possess tremendous potential, particularly in a potential role as a meeting grounds between the West and East Asia. The Awakening new world will need balance points in order to develop a peaceful and graceful transition beyond the bonds of Kali Yuga.
Posted by: aristodemos | Oct 25 2024 15:02 utc | 51
Why does BRICS need a common currency at all?
The reasons for a "common currency" is to:
* create currency stability; don't have to guess "what the currency will be worth at some point in the future", because it fluctuates a lot less than the individual currencies that comprise the "basket" would relative to one another, and
* make cross-border financial transactions easier and less risky because both parties are using the same currency
Is that right?
The problem with "common currency" is:
a. The constituent countries' economies, and hence the value of their currencies, fluctuate a lot, and for some good reasons. Trying to "peg" or otherwise lock relative values between currencies is a fool's errand. If the Euro experiment proved anything, it's that common currencies without a great deal of fiscal and economic policy synchronization is a very bad idea.
b. It reduces political and economic autonomy for the nations that belong to the "common currency" regime
So the question comes: "how can we get the benefits of a "common currency" without the serious draw-backs?"
Some context:
Things are different now, in 2024 than they were in the 1999 when the euro was launched, and during the economic integration work of the 60s-90s that culminated in the Euro. The EU integration process happened because Europe needed a way to band together in order to be economically relevant, and be able to compete with the US and later, with Asia.
BRICS may be in an entirely different situation. To wit:
a. Technology. Ubiquitous, reliable, secure (mostly) networks are available, and so it lots of de-centralized processing power, and so is de-centralized or distributed systems architectures. The I.T. capacity is very different today than before
b. BRICS architects might elect to:
1. Give the member countries the tools _they_ need to manage inflation, and wealth creation, so that the currencies simply fluctuate less in relative terms
2. Build into the payments system automatic conversion between currencies. It's possible to see in real-time what the "settlement" amount will be
3. Build into the payments system the ability to buy rate-lock, so that a contract amount agreed today is "insured" to be ... exactly that, once payment is made at some (locked-in) point in the future.
4. Not try to become a monolithic political or economic block. Instead, they might try to be a loosely coupled, mostly autonomous collaboration of trading partners who've become expert at selecting and executing their particular economic role, and have built a bunch of tools that support/enable/simplify the ... selecting, evolving into, and executing a high-value national economic plan that happens to ... advance the interests of themselves and their trading partners.
No lock-step politics necessary. Currency "baskets" or worse-yet a common currency is an economic and political strait-jacket.
In the context of currency and trade, the coping mechanism would be to design the software and the functional roles of the banks, intermediaries, etc. to just _do what's necessary_ without all that enormous overhead - political, economic, operational, etc. that's involved in creating and - worse-yet- maintaining a common currency.
I'm starting to think that I hope the "common currency" idea never gets off the ground, and instead BRICS concentrates on actually solving the problems as they are, where they are, using the best (new) tools at our disposal.
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 25 2024 15:19 utc | 52
It is indeed US arrogance, as I covered here India: Once Again the US Pushes a Fence Sitter Toward the Other Side. The Dumbos in the US State Department Do It Again!. We have to add in the US-led coup in Bangladesh that put in place a US puppet, and the attempts to destabilize the Adani group etc. The US has been stepping up the bullying pressure for a while, as India refused to be the dutiful vassal. As with Belarus, the result is the movement of India toward the opposition - in this case China.
US influence on Lula's Brazil?
Through a statement, the Venezuelan government described the BRICS summit as historic for a new world of peace, justice, and development; however, it denounced that the Brazilian Foreign Ministry’s representation, led by Ambassador Eduardo Paes Saboia, “decided to maintain the veto that Bolsonaro applied to Venezuela for years, reproducing the hatred, exclusion, and intolerance promoted from Western power centers to prevent, for now, the entry of Bolívar’s homeland into this organization.”
Although during the summit Venezuela received support from several participating countries to formalize its entry into the bloc, the Bolivarian nation rejects the veto as it constitutes an aggression towards Venezuela and reflects current geopolitical tensions, where Western powers attempt to limit Venezuelan influence.
Posted by: Keme | Oct 25 2024 15:52 utc | 54
great coverage b! thanks.. i concur on the significance of india-china relations having turned a corner here..
also, i agree that the unrealistic expectations of many towards brics is not realistic.. things take time.. everything doesn't happen at once..
Posted by: james | Oct 25 2024 16:00 utc | 55
@Posted by: Keme | Oct 25 2024 15:52 utc | 54
Lula was a radical in his younger days, but then had to watch election after election be stolen from him until he agreed to be a "neoliberal with crumbs for the masses" for the first decade and a half of the new century. But then the commodity boom bust and the crumbs had to be removed, so his protege was coup'd and he was sent to prison for some "re-education". So now he just blathers about being a leftist whilst doing the service of the Brazilian oligarchs, who are very cognizant of their need to keep in the US good books.
Thanks for the post b.
“BRICS is not a military alliance. Iran joining BRICS does not mean that Russia or China or anyone else will come to its defense should the U.S./Israel attack the country. While they would probably provide some help in the background both will likely avoid any direct involvement.” ~b
But, but, but, Iran is a member of SCO b. That is a security and defense organization. Not in the “background.” Active participation by members.
Also, if Russia would get off the pot and sign the security agreement, then you'd have two backpacking.
BRICS is an economic union.
From wiki:
“The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) is a Eurasian political, economic, international security and defence organization established by China and Russia in 2001.”
“In June 2017, it expanded to eight states, with India and Pakistan. Iran joined the group in July 2023, and Belarus in July 2024. Several countries are engaged as observers or dialogue partners. “
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Oct 25 2024 16:19 utc | 57
@ b who wrote
"
BRICS will not replace the U.S. dollar. Any short term plan to replace of the currently most important global medium of financial transactions (not of real stuff trade) is unrealistic.
"
I am sorry b but Yves Smith has you looking at this the wrong way. You need to understand that the US dollar, as fiat money, is the ongoing measure of "value" of everything and that is ending, BRICS or not. And that ongoing value of the US dollar in relation to other nations money is controlled by the foreign exchange market....as I wrote yesterday
@ karlof1 #39 who quoted Putin
Vladimir Putin: As for SWIFT and some alternatives: we have not created and are not creating any alternatives to anyone. But nevertheless, the issue is very important today, and one of the key problems – this is the problem of calculations. Therefore, we are following the path of using national currencies, this is well known.
The problem of calculations that Putin is talking about is exchange rates between nations currencies. The foreign exchange market is highly manipulated by all the actors cited below
The foreign exchange market is an over-the-counter global market where the buying and selling of global currencies occur, determining their exchange rates. The exchange market is made up of banks, forex dealers, commercial companies, central banks, investment management firms, hedge funds, retail forex dealers, and investors that all trade currency pairs.
Along with trying to create a money with intrinsic value will be the problem of building a management architecture for exchange rates controlled solely by sovereign nations and not open to manipulation by the rich public.
And all this talk about how a new system of finance heeds to exist before the existing can be replaced is delusional. The more realistic view is that there will be a crisis of faith in the existing system which will crash the global economy and a new financial system agreed to by sovereign nations will be built on the ashes of the God Of Mammon cult.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2024 16:23 utc | 58
Can anyone point me to a discussion of the nuts & bolts--what Michael Hudson called the Table of Contents of initiatives BRICS will be developing?
Alternative--
grain exchange, eventually commodities exchange
Swift system
Re-insurance
Rating agencies (Moody's etc.)
World Bank (BRICS bank)
Payments systems (BRICS pay / Brics bridge), etc.
What have I missed?
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Oct 25 2024 17:22 utc | 59
ZH has a posting up with the title
BRICS Summit Puts Focus On Dethroning US Dollar As Putin Unveils 'BRICS Banknote'
the quote
Putin unveiled a "symbolic" BRICS bank note at the summit, suggesting that the plan to dump the dollar may be much closer to fruition than many economists expect....
In other words, the naysayers that claim the dollar will not be replaced as the world reserve for many decades to come are delusional. The process is already well underway.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2024 17:26 utc | 60
" BRICS will not replace the U.S. dollar. "
Then whats the point ? What currency will the BRICS bank lend money in ?
Posted by: Moonie | Oct 25 2024 17:30 utc | 61
" Russia could never allow an American or NATO domination of Iran, right on its borders...
Posted by: Pyrrhus | Oct 25 2024 13:07 utc | 34 "
Finland, Estonia, Lithuania ?
Posted by: Moonieq | Oct 25 2024 17:41 utc | 62
What currency will the BRICS bank lend money in ?
Posted by: Moonie | Oct 25 2024 17:30 utc | 61
---
A much more interesting question is what legal jurisdiction will endorse the loan contract.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 17:45 utc | 63
@ Paul Damascene | Oct 25 2024 17:22 utc | 59
hi paul.. you might want to subscribe to karlof1's substack page.. he has more of the articles from the russian federation that have been released on the questions you are asking.. i don't have a direct link, but i am sure you can find his substack page..
Posted by: james | Oct 25 2024 18:01 utc | 64
In response to
"
A much more interesting question is what legal jurisdiction will endorse the loan contract.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 17:45 utc | 63
"
What if we build a world without usury?
You are still in the old finance thinking box. If we get rid of the God Of Mammon cult then finance becomes a public utility and the whole concept of "loan" needs new definition and parameters.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2024 18:01 utc | 65
What if we build a world without usury?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2024 18:01 utc | 65
---
Sharia loans still rest on contract law.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 18:05 utc | 66
@ Moonieq | Oct 25 2024 17:41 utc | 62
Be patient. That can be fixed. 😉
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 25 2024 18:06 utc | 67
I would be VERY glad if India and PR China can resolve their border issue. It ought to be possible if both sideds negotiate honestly. The current border was drawn on a map by a British bureaucrat, rather more than 100 years ago.
Posted by: lester | Oct 25 2024 18:10 utc | 68
Posted by: lester | Oct 25 2024 18:10 utc | 68
Right, especially the McMahon line which separates Tibet from South-Tibet.
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 18:15 utc | 69
" A much more interesting question is what legal jurisdiction will endorse the loan contract.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 17:45 utc | 63 "
True, but that applies to all BRICS activities. Who will adjudicate disputes between BRICS members for instance ?
Posted by: Moonie | Oct 25 2024 18:16 utc | 70
An energy currency, a food currency and maybe a materials currency and a precious currency, with strong pegs between them.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 14:27 utc | 48
---
From a purely technical point of view a single currency or currency pegs was obsoleted decades ago with the development and implementation of matching engines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_matching_system
Trading between BRICS partners is just a new collection of officially sanctioned dark pools.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 14:49 utc | 49
I meant the pegs between the major groups (energy/food/materials/precious) that would be the only way to assure a certain certainty for all. Changes to these ones would have to be consensual or tech based.
As for the sub markets, yes, soybean could go from 1.8 food to 1.9 (etc), but maybe restrict those that could buy and sell futures to companies with skin in the game (covering, not mindless speculation). And governments relying on smaller subsets would need to pay attention and take action whenever things went beyond reasonable boundaries.
Financialization might be a feature of the current system, but more of a global bug.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 18:16 utc | 71
Posted by: Moonieq | Oct 25 2024 17:41 utc | 62
_You want to compare those three little pigs to Iran?
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 18:17 utc | 72
Financialization might be a feature of the current system, but more of a global bug.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 18:16 utc | 71
---
Deng Xiaoping leveraged market pricing to bootstrap China's meteoric rise. Price discovery is not financialization. Fair prices should be considered a basic human right.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 18:28 utc | 73
BRICS is neither a military alliance a la NATO and nor an economic alliance a la EU . It is good optics . A nothing burger . There is no herder for BRICS like the USA is for NATO and EU . As to India/ China border dispute nothing is solved . China occupies 4425 Km of Indian territory . China has GIVEN PERMISSION to the Indian army to patrol the Line of Control . Period . No other concessions were made by China . In the meanwhile China continues construction activity on the occupied land . On the financial front the Indian financial system ( stock market) is captured by the big investment banks like Blackrock , Vanguard etc . One wink from Washington and the crony capitalist like Adani go down the tube taking with it the Modi government . India is overrated by the world . The fact is that 800 million survive on getting 5kg wheat/rice + 1kg of chickpeas per person/ per month free from the govt . This works out to 1500 calories per day . + 50% youth unemployment . The military cannot fight a sustained war for over a week on it's own . Fail to understand what the hullabaloo is about .
Posted by: hole in head | Oct 25 2024 18:31 utc | 74
I have a rough impression on how a BRICS-transaction may be going once this is more developed. The concept is maybe to simplified for all the savvy people here (genuinely meant), but my apologies for still learning about economy..
A network of NATIONAL Banks can perform transactions between two BRICS-members or within a BRICS system.
A Company in Uganda wants to purchase 500 Mahindra tractors and pays for them in Ugandan shillings. The money enters the bank and is transacted to an Indian bank; which pays Mahindra in rupees at the exchange rate. Different tiers of payments may be done. For example, a certain percentage in National currency and the remaining in a commodity or (eventually) a gold-backed BRICS currency. The bank keeps the stillings and can later on swap them to other banks in the network, even other nations. Obviously, this would require a totally different non-predatory/non-usury way of currency transaction or else we have a George Sorosz 2.0 in the works.
Theoretically, it would be possible to do a full purchase with only National currencies, depending upon terms agreed. Banks will play an entirely different role than in the West. They will make their money by facillitating trade and selling BRICS-currency.
This is as far as I understand the possibility. Please understand my field is medicine and not economics. I am just formulating how I understand it as of now...
Could anyone else say how they have understood a possible model so far? I'm totally aware there must be quite a few things I don't grasp. ;)
Posted by: NorwegianPawn | Oct 25 2024 18:33 utc | 75
India animosity toward China is not caused by the U.S. It is a decision by India itself starting with its advance north strategies in the early 1960’s and its identity as the new Imperial power in town taking over British India’s place.
India has not made amends. Yes the 2020 saga was instigated by India at the prompting of US, but the problem runs much deeper.
Deeper in the sense it is not just about borders, India also has been promoting Tibetan independence. If China does the same back to India India will go to war. China has been very patient with India these past 70 or so years.
US is just smart to use India for its purposes. But unless India introspects and changes, Indua will continue to be an object US can toy with.
Posted by: Allen | Oct 25 2024 18:36 utc | 76
These 5 centuries of Western hegemony have been very good for the world as a whole.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Oct 25 2024 13:18 utc | 38
Typical western way of thinking and mentality. Absolutely no empathy for the rest of the world. Seuls des salauds sont capables de penser de la sorte. Yes, typical western individualism, egoism, egocentrism and hedonism. Will of power. At all costs. Enjoying the wars. Enjoying the killings. Like now in Gaza.
As a "whole" those last five centuries are a long list of massacres and genocides plus 2 world wars. Plus the destruction of the biodiversity.
You are despicable.
I will rejoice when the western countries will be submitted. China and Russia are much, much more clever. And the rest of the world understands it.
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 18:39 utc | 77
As to India/ China border dispute nothing is solved . China occupies 4425 Km of Indian territory .
Posted by: hole in head | Oct 25 2024 18:31 utc | 74
India occupies 83 743 km2 of Chinese territory. Taken by force and given to India by the British during their colonisation.
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 18:43 utc | 78
I would add that the conduct of US satellites like Canada have contributed as well to India's turn from the US to China.
Canada has a significant Indian diaspora of which a large number are Sikhs from the Punjab area. They play a role in domestic Canadian politics; e.g., the Liberal regime of Trudeau has been propped up in Parliament by the "social democratic" NDP in a minority situation. This NDP is led by Jagmeet Singh who has connections with the Sikh community and the separatist (aka "Khalistan") element in particular.
It's important to note that support for a separate Sikh homeland/country in India has dropped off and is not considered a serious political threat domestically. However, the separatists organize "independence" referenda outside of India and get support from, e.g., Canadian and US regimes - including their intelligence agencies. The target is very clearly India.
To some degree, India has long been a target for subversion by western/NATO regimes ever since India played an important role in the NAM. That is to say, India has been a target virtually since independence.
In any case, recently, the whole thing has blown up with the expulsion of high ranking Embassy and Consular officials - 6 on both sides - over the unsubstantiated claims of Indian involvement in assassination attempts on separatists in the US and Canada. The Canadian PM, who is facing a caucus revolt in any case (which he may not survive), foolishly escalated the whole thing with public statements, not backed up by any evidence likely to appear in a courtroom, about likely Indian involvement, etc..
Mind you, Trudeau already demonstrated his total boot-licking Quisling-like subservience to the US over the brutal treatment of Chinese national Meng Wanzhou. It should be added that Trudeau is a non-partisan boot-licker; both "conservative" Trump and "liberal" US regimes were fawned over by the spineless jellyfish PM.
Much like the Russian Federation wrt the expansion of NATO, so too India has raised the issue of terrorists that are welcomed in both Canada and the US. Their concerns have fallen on deaf ears.
The Quislings in Europe are matched by their brethren north of the 49th parallel. With the humiliating standing ovations in Parliament for a known Nazi/Waffen SS volunteer, and now defecating on its relationship with China and India, and of course foaming Russophobia as a given, Canada's foreign policy seems to be the proverbial barking dog outside the caravan.
The caravan moves on.
Posted by: NH | Oct 25 2024 18:48 utc | 79
Thanks to b and Arch and all who come to MOA seeking truth....an ongoing, real history lesson on the path to fairness, also known ss justice.
Posted by: chu-teh | Oct 25 2024 19:01 utc | 80
No. Media control makes practically no difference in the eventual outcome of what is essentially an economic event driven by resource limits.
Make believe wealth cannot cure hunger.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 12:23 utc | 27
——————
Well said. The BRICS ‘currency’ is meant to be based on actual real resources. It will easily displace the weaponized USD.
Posted by: financial matters | Oct 25 2024 19:17 utc | 81
Posted by: JB | Oct 25 2024 11:51 utc | 17
Thank you for the links.
Posted by: lindaj | Oct 25 2024 19:24 utc | 82
Dmitri Orlov and Nima Alkhorshid discussion
Dima and Dmitri discuss the whole waterfront of U.S. politics, EU, Ukraine, middle East, Iran, China, India, and BRICS.
I've not heard anyone connect all the dots as well, as succinctly, and as authoritatively as Dmitri.
It's 1.5 hours long. No dull spots, no theatrics or snide put-downs. Rock-solid delivery.
You'll hear some things that may surprise, or even shock you, but Dmitri's positions are well-substantiated, and fit pretty darn well with observed events.
Some things that have been puzzling you will get explained.
I nominate this vid as the best one of the year in geopolitics, and I'm only 2/3 of the way through it.
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 25 2024 19:26 utc | 83
@Tom Pfotzer | Oct 25 2024 19:26 utc: Yo dude, the vid is an hour long, not 1.5.
Just finished it. Still got the nod for best vid on geopolitics for this year.
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 25 2024 19:47 utc | 84
Poisoned chalice. India in BRICS is actually just another western trap imo.
Posted by: Rae | Oct 25 2024 20:12 utc | 85
This is a thing that I've been about for a long time.
A lot of American "wealth" is paper wealth. It is valuations on IP, which require trademark and copyright legal systems to maintain.
The drug companies, the entertainment companies, etc. A lot of American "ideas" are assets, which are only protected because it is "illegal" to think the same thought and act on it without "permission". Vox Day had a great post in the last year about how IP laws are basically corporate subsidies. When you hear Americans complain about the Chinese subsidizing industry, that is essentially what the Americans do with Disney and Pfizer.
That's not a top-line item to combat but I hope that BRICS re-organizes IP law observance for the benefit of the poorest developing global South countries. Locking them out of ideas and technology is not much different than what the French did in West Africa with the CFA Franc. A boot on the neck of the colonized, limiting their ability to grow and become sovereign.
Ideas are not scarce and the existence of IP law does not drive innovation. Humans were always going to discover fire and invent gunpowder. No IP laws were required.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 25 2024 20:29 utc | 86
As an aside, as with so many things in America, the corporate benefactors of IP laws cycle their ill-gotten gains back into the political system, in an opaque system of payoffs and bribes.
There is no net benefit to the people of the country. It is all elites serving elites.
A "legal" system of privileges and petit monopolies.
I didn't think this way 5 years ago but largely thanks to MoA, I understand how disgusting and rotten the entire thing is.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 25 2024 20:33 utc | 87
"Dima and Dmitri discuss the whole waterfront of U.S. politics, EU, Ukraine, middle East, Iran, China, India, and BRICS. .."
Cunningly trying to enlighten Vargas, Tom?! There is no more prescient oracle than Dima! /s
Posted by: Ново З | Oct 25 2024 20:35 utc | 88
A lot of American "wealth" is paper wealth. It is valuations on IP, which require trademark and copyright legal systems to maintain.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 25 2024 20:29 utc | 86
Are you suggesting that food and oil are more valuable than one's selfie post at Times Square?
Posted by: Turk 152 | Oct 25 2024 20:45 utc | 89
" _You want to compare those three little pigs to Iran?
Posted by: Naive | Oct 25 2024 18:17 utc | 72 "
NATO on your borders is NATO on your borders.
Posted by: Moonie | Oct 25 2024 20:50 utc | 90
@ Ново З | Oct 25 2024 20:35 utc | 88
Tom mistyped — from context it’s clear that Orlov was being interviewed by Nima (Alkhorshid), not the richly worthless Dima. But I suspect you knew that. 😉
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 25 2024 21:05 utc | 91
RT: Russia ready for ‘rational compromise’ with Ukraine – Putin
Putin begging for peace, again.
Betraying all those dead soldiers.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 25 2024 21:18 utc | 92
"Dima and Dmitri discuss the whole waterfront of U.S. politics, EU, Ukraine, middle East, Iran, China, India, and BRICS. .."
Cunningly trying to enlighten Vargas, Tom?! There is no more prescient oracle than Dima! /s
Posted by: Ново З | Oct 25 2024 20:35 utc | 88
Dima knows so much, he has an unique feeling for the situation.
That is why everybody listens to him.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 25 2024 21:21 utc | 93
Poisoned chalice. India in BRICS is actually just another western trap imo.
Posted by: Rae | Oct 25 2024 20:12 utc | 85
------------------------------------------------------------
I have the same concern about President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Nevertheless, all political relationships are risky. The political winds can change for many reasons: Elections, color coups (internal or external), military invasions by hostile nations, and changing economic conditions, but you have to start somewhere.
Posted by: Ed | Oct 25 2024 21:26 utc | 94
i am always impressed with dimitri orlov, so thanks tom!
Posted by: james | Oct 25 2024 21:31 utc | 95
RT: Russia ready for ‘rational compromise’ with Ukraine – PutinPutin begging for peace, again.
Betraying all those dead soldiers.Posted by: vargas | Oct 25 2024 21:18 utc | 92
did you just read the headline and moved on, or have you actually listened what was said?
Posted by: Justpassinby | Oct 25 2024 21:41 utc | 96
Financialization might be a feature of the current system, but more of a global bug.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 18:16 utc | 71
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Deng Xiaoping leveraged market pricing to bootstrap China's meteoric rise. Price discovery is not financialization. Fair prices should be considered a basic human right.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 25 2024 18:28 utc | 73
And I said
"as for the sub markets, yes, soybean could go from 1.8 food to 1.9 (etc), but maybe restrict those that could buy and sell futures to companies with skin in the game (covering, not mindless speculation). And governments relying on smaller subsets would need to pay attention and take action whenever things went beyond reasonable boundaries."
Price discovery does not need speculators on wild bets.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 25 2024 21:47 utc | 97
RT: Russia ready for ‘rational compromise’ with Ukraine – Putin
Putin begging for peace, again.
Betraying all those dead soldiers.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 25 2024 21:18 utc | 92
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If a rational solution for peace can be achieved that is satisfactory to the Russians and the remaining Ukrainian citizens, it would be criminal for President Putin not to consider such a deal. If Putin were to refuse to consider such a prospect, he would be no better than the dick head duo Joe and Boris, who blocked a perfectly good peace offer from Russia early in the war, by shuttling down the Istanbul peace talks that were well on the way to being signed.
Since then, Joe Biden and the Boris the Clown collective have the blood of over 500,000 Ukrainians on their hands, and the Nazis in Kiev have lost even more territory.
Posted by: Ed | Oct 25 2024 21:52 utc | 98
Correction @ 98
"...by shuttling down the Istanbul peace talks that were well on the way to being signed."
By shutting down....
Posted by: Ed | Oct 25 2024 21:58 utc | 99
RT: Russia ready for ‘rational compromise’ with Ukraine – Putin
Putin begging for peace, again.
Betraying all those dead soldiers.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 25 2024 21:18 utc | 92
did you just read the headline and moved on, or have you actually listened what was said?
Posted by: Justpassinby | Oct 25 2024 21:41 utc | 96
I just looked at the headline.
The headline should be the essence of the story.
Otherwise it is a puzzle.
Posted by: vargas | Oct 25 2024 22:39 utc | 100
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Superb b,
The BRICS report lays out the priorities moving forward. Which is nothing new of course. Mankind have done this type of thing for centuries.
HERE:
https://moneyontheleft.org/2021/01/01/money-as-a-constitutional-project-with-christine-desan-2/
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Oct 25 2024 10:38 utc | 1