Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 21, 2024

Ukraine - Zelinski's 'Victory Plan' Charade

On August 27 the former president of Ukraine Vladimir Zelenski announced that he would soon present a plan for ending the war with Russia:

kraine's Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Tuesday that the war with Russia would eventually end in dialogue, but that Kyiv had to be in a strong position and that he would present a plan to U.S. President Joe Biden and his two potential successors.

The Ukrainian leader, addressing a news conference, said Kyiv's three-week-old incursion into Russia's Kursk region was part of that plan, but that it also comprised other steps on the economic and diplomatic fronts.

"The main point of this plan is to force Russia to end the war. And I want that very much - (that it would be) fair for Ukraine," he told reporters in Kyiv of the war launched by Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022.
...
Zelenskiy said he hoped to go to the United States in September to attend the U.N. General Assembly in New York and that he was preparing to meet Biden.

The plan will also be presented to the presidential candidates Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.

It is believed that this announcement came in response to a silent request by Ukraine's supporters for a longer term perspective.

Details of the plan have since leaked bit by bit:

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has revealed a new detail about the victory plan he plans to present to US President Joe Biden next week.
...
"Decisions regarding the plan mostly depend on him [Biden – ed.]. They depend on other allies too, but there are points that depend on positive will and support from the United States. I really hope he will back this plan," Zelenskyy said.
...
"This plan is based on decisions which would need to be adopted within the period from October to December… Then the plan will work, we think," he said.

Earlier, Zelenskyy revealed that the plan consists of four points to increase Ukraine's defence capability, "plus another one that we’ll need after the war".

The 'victory plan' is not about a real plan for Ukraine's action but a list of demands towards the 'western' supporters of Ukraine.

The theory in Kiev is that a fulfillment of these demands will allow Ukraine to win the war and to press Russian into accepting Ukraine's 10 point 'peace plan'.

As explained by a Zelinski advisor:

A source close to Zelensky told the Kyiv Independent that the "victory plan" aims "to create such conditions and such an atmosphere that Russia will no longer be able to ignore the peace formula and the peace summit."
...
"The problem is, to get to that point where we have any sort of peace negotiations, Russia must feel like they're going to lose, and we are not there yet," Rep. Jimmy Panetta, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee in Congress, told the Kyiv Independent.

"I hope part of this victory plan is how we can shape battlefield conditions to reach that point," said Panetta, who met Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in Kyiv last weekend.

From other reporting we know that Zelenski's 'victory plan' demands include:

  • to allow unrestricted long range missile strikes into Russia
  • to invite Ukraine in the borders of 1991 to join NATO at a nearby date
  • to immediately negotiate and accept Ukraine's membership in the the European Union
  • to permanently supply advanced heavy weapons to Ukraine
  • to provide additional hundreds of billions of dollars for 'reconstruction' without any restrictions attached to it

The 'victory plan' requests are of course outrageous and delusional and have little to no chance to be fulfilled.

Zelenski's opposition in Ukraine is therefore convinced that the plan was formulated to get rejected. The refusal of the plan would be used by Zelenski to then justify peace negotiations with Russia (machine translation):

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky will pass on his "victory plan" to the United States in order to get a refusal and then start negotiations with Russia.

This opinion was expressed by former Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko.

According to Lutsenko, that is why the Ukrainian government constantly blames the allies for the situation at the front.

"The entire propaganda machine of the President's Office constantly hammers into the heads of Ukrainians that we have problems only because the United States does not want to give us permission for long – range missiles Jassm, Atacms, Storm shadow / Scalp," the ex-prosecutor general wrote.

Zelenski's, not Ukraine's, real victory plan would thus go like this:

According to Lutsenko, Zelensky act according to this plan:
  1. We are submitting a new mega-list of requirements for weapons and money to the United States.
  2. We have polite doubts that this will change the course of the war and lead us to the borders of 1991.
  3. We declare that we have been abandoned and have no other choice but to return to the World Forums with the participation of Russia.
  4. During the negotiations, we receive demands from Putin in the style of Istanbul.
  5. We declare that this is the subject of a referendum and that a ceasefire is necessary for this.
  6. We sign a cease-fire.
  7. We pose as the president of the world and hold presidential elections. Preferably - without lifting martial law, so that democracy does not interfere, and the military recruitment offices can manage the polling stations.
Lutsenko called it a "cynical show" that " is easily read by both ukrpolitikum and our allies."

Zelenski's real plan, as listed by Lutsenko, sounds nifty and would probably work in a normal state. But Ukraine is a state in which a small minority of well armed and ruthless fascists have control over all major political decisions. They are adamant against any negotiations with, or concessions to Russia and have threatened to overthrow any government that would try to go that way.

It is hard to see how Zelenski can get convince those men to agree with his plans.

Posted by b on September 21, 2024 at 14:45 UTC | Permalink

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Ukrainian petitioners tried to squeeze 400 billion euros out of Ursula von der Leyen, who arrived in Kiev, between 2028 and 2034.

We hope that the new EU budget for 2028-2034 will create a financial instrument for Ukraine. We propose increasing the financial offer for our country from 200 to 400 billion euros and introducing a separate budget program,”

— said Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal, commenting on the results of the meeting with the President of the European Commission.

He also noted that the Ukrainian authorities expect to receive another 16 billion euros in aid by the end of the year within the framework of the Ukraine Facility program.

Earlier, Ursula von der Leyen announced during her visit to Kiev that the EU would provide Ukraine with 35 billion euros by the end of the year. The money will go directly to the Ukrainian budget and will be used to stabilize the macro-financial situation in the country. According to the EC's extremely optimistic opinion (which is in no way close to reality), the loan repayment could take 40 years.

Slavyangrad


insane...goodbye EU....welcome to the Zone...maybe you find a Stalker to leaduou to a point of realisation.

Posted by: Jo | Sep 21 2024 14:50 utc | 1

A question about UK.

We hear that UK government is reducing some pension fond benefices in order to send the money to Ukraine.
There are no protests, do discontent about that.

Is that not the sign how homogeneous the UK society is today? That the majority is ready to sacrifice themselves in order to defeat and plunder Russia.

Posted by: vargas | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 2

The Neo-Nazi brigades in Ukraine - would end Zelensky if he sought some sort of peace deal with Russia - and the US/UK/EU - would just replace him with someone who wanted to keep the war going - there's far too much money to be made from this war to end it.

Is this where it going.

We were ALL 72 minutes away from destruction last week - and most folk didn't even know it, it might yet come.

The one-time Russian Premier Nikita Khrushchev - said of nuclear war:

“The survivors would envy the dead.”

"Had Biden yielded to Starmer’s pressure (the British, together with Ukraine and several NATO nations, believed that Putin was bluffing), and signed off on the permission, Ukraine was prepared to launch strikes on Russia that night.

(British soldiers deployed in Ukraine would be needed to operate the Storm Shadows and they are already there, according to German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who has refused to send similar weapons to Ukraine.)

Russia would likely have responded with conventional attacks on Kiev using new weapons, such as the Avangard hypersonic warhead, which would each deliver a blow equivalent to 26-28 tons of explosives.

Russia would also most likely have struck NATO targets in Poland and Romania where Ukrainian fighters are based. And, lastly, Russia would have struck British military targets, possibly including those on the British Isles.

This would prompt a NATO retaliation under Article 5, using a large number of NATO long-range strike weapons targeting Russian command and control, airfields, and ammunition storage facilities.

The Russian response would most likely involve the launching of more Avangard conventional warheads against NATO targets, including Ramstein airbase and NATO headquarters, as well as airbases from which strikes against Russia were launched.

At this juncture the United States, using nuclear employment plans derived from a nuclear posture which emphasizes the pre-emptive use of low yield nuclear weapons to “escalate to deescalate”— i.e., force Russia to back down through a demonstration of capability — would authorize the use of one or more low-yield nuclear warheads against Russian targets on Russian soil.

But Russian doctrine has no capacity for engaging in a limited nuclear war. Instead, Russia would respond with a general nuclear retaliation targeting all of Europe and the United States.

Whatever U.S. strategic forces that survived this onslaught would be fired at Russia.

And then we all die."

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/09/19/scott-ritter-72-hours/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 3

If Zelenskyy wants to start negotiations with Russia, he better watch his back. The neo-Nazis have made it plain that they will kill him if he does so.

Posted by: SpatialFix | Sep 21 2024 14:57 utc | 4

I have had a question since this debacle began as to why Russia permits the trains carrying all the nefarious political scallywags into Kiev from Poland and back. It seems like it would be divine justice to blow up a train with the likes of Nuland, Boris Johnson, or Von Der Leyen (or for that matter Zelinsky) on it. But, they just keep letting open travel happen without consequence. The same for the border crossings from Poland into Ukraine. Perhaps, at the next escalation by the West we will see these cut off finally. Russians have a very deep belief in fair play which the Western leaders don't equally apply to Russia.

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Sep 21 2024 14:59 utc | 5

Posted by: vargas | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 2

######

People in the UK are trying to buy food and heat themselves. No one is interested in protesting as the weather gets colder.

I suppose a troll could argue that the lack of pushback is a sign of unity, rather than the surrender of a victim after many rounds of abuse.

There are several people from the UK at this bar. I don’t think one of them has much respect or loyalty to that government.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2024 15:03 utc | 6

Vargas #2 No it is a sign that the fascists aka neolibs behind cipher Starmer have complete narrative control

Posted by: Tim | Sep 21 2024 15:04 utc | 7

Re #2, UK is probably the most well propagandized population on earth … even more so than the US and Germany, though the latter is close.

The genius of manufacturing consent in action.

Posted by: Caliman | Sep 21 2024 15:04 utc | 8

Does Z have any credibility left?

Posted by: Joe | Sep 21 2024 15:05 utc | 9

Larry Johnson sez:

Ukraine and Israel both share at least one thing in common — they are desperate and flailing about trying to get the United States directly involved in their respective wars. Ukraine is being steadily pushed out of the Donbass and Kursk, and suffering terrible losses in the process, and its leaders, with Zelensky leading the charge, are trying to pursue a course of action that will bring the United States and NATO directly into the fighting. In other words, provoke Russia to expand its operations by attacking NATO targets in retaliation for NATO assistance in hitting Russian territory with so-called “long-range missiles.”

https://sonar21.com/ukraine-and-israel-following-the-same-playbook-but-uncle-sam-doesnt-want-to-play/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 21 2024 15:06 utc | 10

Does anybody here remember the 1980s PSA showing an egg in a frying pan, with the tagline, "This is your brain on drugs"?

Why am I reminded of that reading this article???


Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 3

TY for posting the Scott Ritter piece. Everyone needs to read that and let the message sink in.

Posted by: MRDMK | Sep 21 2024 15:09 utc | 11

Now is exactly the time for the RF to put the pedal to metal..........go on the O and big time too, now when the roads are still dry for the next few weeks..........as we see preliminary signs of UAF frontal collapse!!

Let the Chechens SOF's go safari hunting in the Kursk fire pocket and concentrate on the big push in Zapa, Kherson and Donetsk, and take down the remaining 25% of the power grid too, and every single oil tank farm and railroad head and bridge too get to the Dneiper..........and get to Odessa, the main critical goal, take away the Nazi seaport, and the RN naval base.

Crack this Nazis front wide open by October 1st, and let their rotten house of cards collapse.........do not lose this opportunity to finish them off in detail............

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 21 2024 15:10 utc | 12

Vargas #2 No it is a sign that the fascists aka neolibs behind cipher Starmer have complete narrative control
Posted by: Tim | Sep 21 2024 15:04 utc | 7

but if you get less money every month... because of Ukraine....

Posted by: vargas | Sep 21 2024 15:10 utc | 13

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Sep 21 2024 14:59 utc | 5

########

The answer is simple and obvious.

Russia doesn’t want a war with NATO.

Not when they are on the cusp of defeating the West bloodlessly via a new economic order that removes the West’s one artificial advantage (money printing), which will collapse their psychopathic agenda quickly.

Pay attention to Trump’s stump speeches. He sounds scared of losing the dollar hegemony.

Why lose one more Russian life than necessary?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2024 15:12 utc | 14

Old Microbiologist 5 - exactly, cut that rail line to Poland and drop the rail bridges too.....WTF....why allow these NATO frauds to hold PR events at your expense.....make them truck from Lvov and see how that works for their fat arses............

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 21 2024 15:13 utc | 15

I have had a question since this debacle began as to why Russia permits the trains carrying all the nefarious political scallywags into Kiev from Poland and back. It seems like it would be divine justice to blow up a train with the likes of Nuland, Boris Johnson, or Von Der Leyen (or for that matter Zelinsky) on it. But, they just keep letting open travel happen without consequence. The same for the border crossings from Poland into Ukraine. Perhaps, at the next escalation by the West we will see these cut off finally. Russians have a very deep belief in fair play which the Western leaders don't equally apply to Russia.

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Sep 21 2024 14:59 utc | 5

It has been my supposition since the war of attrition began a couple years ago that the Russian command does not want to discourage the West from sending all its men and materiel to fight Russians in Ukraine for destruction prematurely.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 21 2024 15:13 utc | 16

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 3

I think it is a near certainty that NATO missiles are currently conducting deep strikes in Russia. Suddenly three ammunition dumps in three days?

Posted by: schmoe | Sep 21 2024 15:17 utc | 17

🧩🧩🧩"Zelensky's victory PLAN", what is it?

At the numerous requests of subscribers, we will analyze in more detail Ze's latest PLAN and why permission to strike the "ancestral" territory of the Russian Federation is the BASIS of this PLAN.

Here you need to feel the MOMENT:

👩🏾Harris needs silence before the elections. The topic of Ukraine plays against her, given that the safe escalation corridor is over, and the risks are growing further;

👴🏻Grandpa Biden just wants to serve out his term, give the problem of Ukraine (in a state of formal non-defeat) to any next president and go down in history in the literal and figurative sense;

🇺🇸Trump uses any escalation to his advantage to accuse the Democrats of unleashing World War III. Ze's escalations, such as Kursk, are to his advantage;

🇷🇺 The Kremlin is satisfied with the current situation. They are preparing for both options: Trump with his peace plan and Harris, while simultaneously advancing on the front line, without abandoning alternative strategies.

At the same time, two important factors must be taken into account:

🇮🇱 Another escalation in the Middle East devalues ​​Ze's shares and increases the importance of dialogue with the Russian Federation as an important mediator with Iran for the current administration;

🇺🇸 The relationship between Biden and Harris' teams is more than strained. It was she and those who stand behind her who knocked the grandfather out of the race. So there is about the same relationship there as between Ze and Za.

In such conditions, Zelensky is forced to "play" with aces on a pittance. Without playing, he will simply wait for Trump with his peace plan, which Ze does not like much. Hence such a non-specific new PLAN of Ze.

Nevertheless, the PLAN plays a key role in the information agenda, they write different options. It can be simultaneously:

1️⃣ Blackmail for the Democrats. If you don't give permission to strike Russia, NATO and money, I'll lose the war (I'll allow the Russians to break through the front) / I'll declare to the UN that Ukraine's defeat is the West's fault, and then Harris will definitely lose the election;

2️⃣ A setup for the Democrats / shifting the blame onto "partners". Biden didn't agree with my PLAN - so I went for a "bad peace", otherwise I would have... them all;

3️⃣ A bluff in front of Russia. Zelensky is trying to offer Putin a fork: EITHER you agree to MY peace conditions, OR the West will give Ukraine: missiles + permission to strike with them and everything necessary to continue the war for several years.
IMPORTANT that having received permission to strike Russia, the real threat to Zelensky for Putin will be: make peace or I will drag NATO into the war❗️;

4️⃣A way to play out a personal "exit". Ze, understanding the inevitability of Trump's arrival, is thus preparing a comfortable end to the war according to Trump's scheme: "I did everything possible (look at my winning plans in September 2024), but the Americans chose Trump and now there is nothing to do - we need to make peace in order to save people..."🤷‍♂️

Reactions to Ze's multi-strategy are also interesting:

👩🏾Harris minimized her communication with the press on all issues, especially on Ukraine. If you keep quiet, you will be considered smart;

👴🏻The cunning old man, through the US Permanent Representative to the UN, gave a signal that Ze's plan is good. Biden's strategy is clear - there is little time left to drag out rubber under approving speeches;

🇺🇸Trump is following Zelensky's plan - he called for negotiations with Russia through his son and Kennedy Jr. "otherwise there will be Armageddon" (especially since Donald has his own plan - Trump's plan, not some Zelensky);

🇷🇺The Russian leadership has chosen a risky ultimatum strategy (again playing along with Trump😉) if you give permission, there will be a high risk of WW3.

We don't believe in 1️⃣ - "blackmail" and 2️⃣ - "shifting the blame to the West". It's too easy for the democrats to kill/remove Zelensky. In 3️⃣ - "bluff" too - Biden will not give permission to strike (this is contrary to his interests), and the Kremlin may not respond to the shelling of the Russian Federation by ATACMS or Storm (it is not the first time to ignore the crossing of "red lines").

4️⃣option that Zelensky is simply puffing out his cheeks before the inevitable forced implementation of Trump's peace plan, which is not beneficial to him, is possible.

But we believe that everything is simpler. The PLAN is another "don't look up!”

A real peace plan would have to meet the following criteria:

✅ motivate Biden to return to the process by demonstrating the success of peacemaking;

✅ provide electoral positivity for Harris;

✅ be better for Trump than Trump's plan;

✅ motivate the Russian Federation to take part in the next conference on Ukraine's terms, i.e. be better for the Kremlin than Trump's plan.

Therefore, we answer firmly and clearly: there is no yoga pose that satisfies all these conditions.

Accordingly, there is no realistic plan. There is a task: to find a reason to hang out with top officials, take pompous photos and make strained statements, filling the agenda so that people are not distracted, and then we'll see + if Trump comes, we can announce to the Ukrainians that I tried my best, but they did not accept my plan.

In fact, this is exactly what Ze has been doing for the last year, easily moving from one plan (10 points) to the second (4 points) and now to the third (4+1 points)🧩


https://t.me/ZeRada1/21571

Posted by: Down South | Sep 21 2024 15:19 utc | 18

Delusionary behavior writ large on Z's part. The Donbass front may collapse at any time when the RU forces opt to pull the switch. Beggars cam't be choosers. Zelensky has shot his wad...one too many times to the well and let's see the results. The corrupt officials in Kiev have fat bank accounts now as well as getaway mansions and dachas in receptive lands. Those are the only "positive" results in clear sight.

Economy is splattered. Electrical power outrages are such that the major cities will become deserted as winter looms. The smarter ones left long ago, while those who still remain will scratch their heads and hope that long lost relatives in the homeland villages will find room for them.

Public opinion in both the E.U. and U$$A is likely to be bored with the whole thing and are NOT motivated to provide more "assistance" where they themselves are facing heavy economic slippage. Why should they care? Meanwhile, the alleged "authorities" keep donning happy masks while worrying themselves silly over their own national decline and accelerating public attitudes which are quietly becoming more and more sour.

By the time that fifteen year olds are becoming "meat-bait", angry mothers, grandmothers, sisters and aunts, aided by the few men who remain (many of them with access to arms) are likely to chase down conscription teams and deal with them right out in the streets. High officials as well, may be wondering just when the tumbrils will come rolling down their gated enclaves.

In short, the former Ukraine SSR is imploding and the current regime will be most fortunate if it lasts into the New Year.

Today is the last Day of Summer. The Fall is immanent.

Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 21 2024 15:21 utc | 19

Russian strategy is to keep a lid on Ukraine, make Ukrainian defeat obvious, and above, all allow time for inflation, political change, chaos, economic collapse and over all "loss of will" to occur among populations of the West - particularly USA and UK, the main war-mongers. For example, an AfD victory in Sunday's Brandenburg election in Germany could knock German Chancellor Scholz out of power. That would mean political chaos in Germany. Same with November election in the USA. Trump winning might offer a change of mind in the USA, but the ideal situation for Russia would be post-election chaos. Therefore, Russia has scrupulously avoided escalation to allow these things to play out

Putin is very level-headed. History will view him as the true strategist and international statesman of this conflict. He rightly sees the West (and particularly the USA) as insane. Insane people can't be given their demands, but at the same time, one must be sure they don't hurt others or kill themselves. So Russia will attempt to control the situation until the insane person can calm down.

Posted by: Charles E. Fromage | Sep 21 2024 15:26 utc | 20

It would seem to me that an issue is that Putin now realizes that he simply can't negotiate. As far as I can tell, he actually tried to make the Minsk agreements work, but the western leaders were not operating in good faith and were only using this to build up Ukraine's military - which they publicly admitted! Russia has worked very hard to degrade Ukraine's military, it has cost them a lot. Allowing a ceasefire now would give the Ukrainians time to recover, and then when break the ceasefire in a year or two the Russians would have to do this all over again. I can't see any viable strategy for Russia other than to keep pushing without break and hope for a total Ukrainian collapse. But what then? I can't see Russia wanting to actually conquer and administer all of Ukraine, that would be a nightmare that would make the occupation of Afghanistan look like a tea party. Interesting times.

Posted by: TG | Sep 21 2024 15:28 utc | 21

Majority of analysts are mistaken. If Russia were to strike NATO today or tomorrow, no ARTICLE 5 will be invoked. It is a tool of “fear” to keep the enemy at bay. If the truth came out that it was an illusion, sham, scam… than Russia and just like much of the world would have woken.
Instead they have fallen for the deception of lies that the US is built upon.

Posted by: ac | Sep 21 2024 15:28 utc | 22

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Sep 21 2024 14:59 utc | 5

---

Why would you de-mine your enemies harbor?

Posted by: too scents | Sep 21 2024 15:30 utc | 23

Thanks for the posting b

Russia will hold the BRICS+ Summit in Kazan from October 22 to 24, 2024.

Will Ukraine (empire) have missiles that will reach Kazan and disrupt the announcement of an alternative global financial structure at this time?

This is a very interesting civilization war, eh?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 21 2024 15:35 utc | 24

Posted by: vargas | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 2

A society that has been brain rotted by feminism, gynocentrism and LGBTQ agenda will suddenly find its balls? Are you crazy?

Posted by: Boo | Sep 21 2024 15:40 utc | 25

Let's see if this will turn out to be true , thus starting the chain reaction for real, but archangel Z is reporting the USUKIS have permitted the use of long-range JASSMs:

https://t.me/rusich_army/17240

Posted by: Boo | Sep 21 2024 15:50 utc | 26

They are telling Russia the deep strikes are going to fly soon. The Russians are telling us we will be Nuked. it's a bluff until it isn't.
The US is not going to let Russia take away control of the world and they will not let them steal a Nuclear power plant.
This is a dangerous situation and the Russians are backed into a corner.

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 21 2024 15:53 utc | 27

UKR trying to stir up both UK and US to force NATO and EU into accepting them.

That's so braindead it could actually work, bingo!

Gives influence to neocons, plays to US exceptionalism, will have CIA and Nuland backing, let's USA hamper both EU and Russia.

EU will love it as it is publicly supported by US, self-important, hands power to technocrats and they don't understand long term consequences.

Posted by: SOS | Sep 21 2024 15:54 utc | 28

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 21 2024 15:53 utc | 27

Who cares what the yanks are saying, worry about your woke shithole first, dumb Canadian cocksucker

Posted by: Boo | Sep 21 2024 16:07 utc | 29

QUESTION, please, slightly offtopic: is something known about the way the drone took which hit the munition depot in Toropets (Tver region) - 500 km along the border between Russia and Belarus or from a Baltic country? Thanks in advance! Gerhard

Posted by: Gerhard | Sep 21 2024 16:11 utc | 30

Insanely terrible translation being given here and elsewhere (maybe all from the same source, or google translate?)

Point 7, Zelensky would present himself as "Президент мира", thereby winning the hearts of Ukraine to re-election.

That is, he gets to win on the basis of being the Peace President. You know, like he did the first time.

WTF is "president of the world" even supposed to mean? And how lazy do editors have to be to not even notice or question the incoherency of that phrase in the overall context??

Posted by: ДжММ | Sep 21 2024 16:12 utc | 31

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 21 2024 15:53 utc | 27

##########

I believe the Russians have everything under control. They continue to annihilate Ukrainian meat and capture territory, hitting NATO training sites in West Ukraine, and dominating the air (where are the F-16s?).

Oh, and Putin just authorized enlarging the Russian military again, making it the second largest after China.

I didn't know that the DPRK has a top 10 military by size. And now they have a mutual military alliance with Russia.

If the Russians were so inclined, they could probably wipe out Banderists from Donetsk to Edmonton.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2024 16:12 utc | 32

"It is believed that this announcement came in response to a silent request by Ukraine's supporters for a longer term perspective."

---

Ukraine's supporters or Ukraine's creditors?

Also, is "silent request" a fresh new oxymoron? Does the term have a formal definition?

Posted by: too scents | Sep 21 2024 16:14 utc | 33

Putin will be viewed as the saviour of humanity in history books one day because he will singlehandedly destroy all NATO weapons with his laser beam eyes he was implanted with a few weeks ago.
These eyes are so powerful and destructive that once he looks in the direction of a NATO country currently not fighting with Russia in the Not-War it will automatically and instantly (as instantly as Russias responses were to the crossing of red lines like destroying nuclear radar stations or using uranium depleted ammunition) trigger a cascade and all weapons in that country will crumble to dust.

Posted by: Putinisthebest | Sep 21 2024 16:16 utc | 34

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 21 2024 15:35 utc | 24

#############

Can we imagine what would happen if Ukraine hits Kazan, killing Xi, Modi, and Erdogan?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2024 16:16 utc | 35

It's is not early 2022, the facts on the ground have changed. Russia is inestimably stronger and Ukraine far weaker, and the West is also weaker and less cohesive. I would be stunned if Putin engaged in any negotiations with Zelensky, as he has already defined him as an illegitimate leader.

Putin would do better to provide his terms to the Rada directly, which should include everything east of the Dniepr plus the South West including Odessa. Probably not until after the Winter though, which Ukraine will experience with little heat and light. Millions more rushing the western borders, significant amounts of extra territory lost, and perhaps another 500,000 Ukrainian losses. With the prospect of a huge Russian Spring campaign. Unless the Ukrainian military hasn't already collapsed.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 21 2024 16:16 utc | 36

Posted by: TG | Sep 21 2024 15:28 utc | 21

well the western part could be completely deelectrified and without traintracks etc. and then declare this area as a state called "ukraine" voila :D no need to mess with those peoples dignity

Posted by: Macpott | Sep 21 2024 16:17 utc | 37

Caliman (8).

Scots are even more propagandised - take Glasgow, it has more CCTV cameras per-head-of-population than London does - and some Scots know why.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 16:18 utc | 38

Posted by: Roger | Sep 21 2024 16:16 utc | 36

###############

Putin is not seeking territory. He's seeking de-militarization and de-Nazification—the creation of a neutral buffer state that isn't in NATO.

Any end to the SMO that doesn't have those key features is not a victory for Russia.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2024 16:19 utc | 39

The situation is frustratingly promissory. Weeks go by with Chasov Yar, Pokrovsky, Ugledar Volchansk and so on attacked but not fully conquered. I can only hope that the Stavka has some solid metrics relative to prediction as to when this situation changes. There are plenty of videos mentioning collapse about Ukraine but it gets very tiresome.

Russia isn't collapsing but it does bleed and I haven't seen a mass movement to demand going blitzkrieg to end this mess. Still, I can't deny what winter in Ukraine is likely to bring. As for Zelensky, anything less than total victory is bullshit. He can never face or survive any compromise. And again, if the West really wants him gone, all they have to do is insist on monitored elections as the best way forward. They don't.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 21 2024 16:20 utc | 40

“It is hard to see how Zelenski can get convince those men to agree with his plans.”

This is actually fairly easy:

(1) Offer Money - so they can buy expensive toys and fancy homes

(2) Offer more money and a promise to look to other way to rebuild and rearm the paramilitaries which can then unleash terror in Russia and Europe


Face it - they care about Ukraine as much as the West does, which is to say not one bit. They only really care about power & control. Really doesn’t matter ‘how’ big Ukraine really is, they just want to be able to do what they want to do.

Posted by: drsmitj | Sep 21 2024 16:25 utc | 41

Zelensky's plan is basically 'bringing the war to Russia and killing civilians because it can hurt Putin'. Think peace is achievable by this?

Zelensky's peace plan is actually the British government's peace plan, since they control Zelensky. Like everything British have done so far is aimed at causing more destruction and death. Russia isn't playing by the same playbook as Nato in Israel and Ukraine.

Reports from Ukraine indicate that very small amount of the population believe their propaganda anymore and the resistance to mobilization is high, including sometimes, fights and gunfights. This will cause disruptions to recruiting, and with current wasteful strategies in Kursk sending a lot of troops in cauldrons will help to bring the peace.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 21 2024 16:27 utc | 42

"Operational-tactical aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, missile troops and artillery from Russian battlegroups wiped out two depots for missiles and artillery weapons and struck a bulker carrying Western-made projectiles and ammunition supplies to the Kiev regime,

Are they saying they sunk a western boat?

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 21 2024 16:28 utc | 43

Keep an eye on frogland. It's about to fall under Barnier and Micron's eyes. Then social unrest.

Posted by: AI | Sep 21 2024 16:30 utc | 44

"Majority of analysts are mistaken. If Russia were to strike NATO today or tomorrow, no ARTICLE 5 will be invoked. It is a tool of “fear” to keep the enemy at bay."

ac (22).

And what if you are wrong - (armageddon) - there's a lot of US troops posted in Europe and England - I doubt the POTUS, could fail to retaliate - the world would be watching on to see.

I'll give you that, Article 5 wouldn't be triggered for an infringement on a minor Nato member.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 16:30 utc | 45

tbf, at least the proposal doesn't involve nukes.

Unlike old neocon gems like this --> https://www.aei.org/op-eds/can-biden-deter-a-russia-nuclear-attack-on-ukraine-yes-if-he-gives-ukraine-tactical-nukes/

Posted by: Anon701 | Sep 21 2024 16:31 utc | 46

Its truly amazing how such a militarily weak, dysfunctional, bankrupt, green socialist, power starved, oil short mini nation like the UK can actually attempt to 'wag the dog' and get the entire world into a nuclear exchange.......

But remember they have experience at it, they started both world wars with endless huffing and puffing, and remember their neo nazi connections too, especially within the Royal family.....but then as now they are way too weak to finish the job......

Now we see them full bore for the Banderite Nazis in Kieve, even operating a 'covert' RN naval base in Odessa, and allowing hundreds of troops to man AA and SSM missile systems inside the Ukraine, they are in fact de facto belligerents dancing on the edge of destruction.........if war comes to the EU, then the first RF strike should be at RAF Cyprus...........or on the twin CV's (ooppss I forgot neither are operational)!!

And their Canadian cousins actually have a Banderite Nazi neophyte Deputy PM in power, assisting the Nazis from afar.........just unreal...and remember Cold Lake RCAF is a short hop from Siberia..........

The Irish are right, never trust the Brits in any event.........duplicitous to the max........

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 21 2024 16:32 utc | 47

Putin would do better to provide his terms to the Rada directly

Posted by: Roger | Sep 21 2024 16:16 utc | 36

---

I believe the Rada's coach turned into a Pumkin at the end of August.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 21 2024 16:40 utc | 48

@3

In Strategic Air Command war games in my day, the events leading to all out launch were a lot less than US servicemen coding targets with very sensitive U.S. systems for its puppets doing terror strikes

Posted by: Paddy | Sep 21 2024 16:45 utc | 49

Posted by: TG | Sep 21 2024 15:28 utc | 21
I can't see Russia wanting to actually conquer and administer all of Ukraine.
<= If I were Russia, as part of the settlement with what is left of Ukraine, I would look to China or North Korea to maintain the peace and to guarantee the neutrality.

Posted by: ac | Sep 21 2024 15:28 utc | 22
If Russia were to strike NATO today or tomorrow, no ARTICLE 5 will be invoked.
<-I think a strike which actually sinks the British Isles to the bottom of the North Atlantic would may offer Russia a chance to silence the European Union NATO.. anything short of a complete total quick sinking would just allow the war to escalate. Also I believe not doing anything will also escalate the war in unfavorable directions to Russia..

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 21 2024 15:53 utc | 27
This is a dangerous situation and the Russians are backed into a corner.
<=I believe the situation has given Russia the legal justification together with a window of opportunity it needs to preemptively strike..but if the strike is anything but massive and highly successful Russia will fail. You are probably right Russia must act or it will be slowly wasted away. Even Putin should be able to that?

Posted by: snake | Sep 21 2024 16:55 utc | 50

Assume Zelensky is given all that he asks for, and even a bit more, would it actually guarantee victory? The new capabilities would certainly hurt Russia more and possibly keep Ukraine afloat for another year, perhaps, but every escalatory action, taken by Ukraine, would be matched and exceeded by Russia. Inflicting more losses in Russian blood and treasure might satiate certain people’s desires but would do nothing to arrest the systemic problems the fractured country now faces, problems largely of her own making.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 21 2024 16:55 utc | 51

Posted by: snake | Sep 21 2024 16:55 utc | 50

When bullied by a gang, knocking out their cheer leader will make all the poodles melt away.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 21 2024 17:01 utc | 52

Given the cognitive capabilities of most top US politicians (Congress) I wouldn't regard it unlikely that they would actually go for Ze's "victory plan". Possibly with the exception of long-range weapons, that wouldn't get a majority yet. But then, who knows.

In the meantime, European countries continue to throw all their citizens' money into Ukraine's black hole. Extinguishing themselves.

It's possible we won't even live to see the outcome.

Posted by: Avtonom | Sep 21 2024 17:08 utc | 53

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 21 2024 16:32 utc | 47

‘they started both world wars with endless huffing and puffing, and remember their neo nazi connections too, especially within the Royal family.’ Seriously? You do realise that a pathological dislike of something, or someone, is often routed in a fear of the entity.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 21 2024 17:14 utc | 54

There are no protests, do discontent about that.
Posted by: vargas | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 2

It is a sign we are moving towards a police state, where you are free to express your agreement with the government. If you wish to criticize, say it is the fault of:
1. Vladimir Putin
2. the Extreme Right
3. Global Climate Change
Always works, never gives you any problems.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 21 2024 17:16 utc | 55

Not to mention that it doesn't sound like a plan Putin would accept. Zelensky is living in a bubble of delusion.

Posted by: Janet | Sep 21 2024 17:17 utc | 56

Lots of speculations where the only real facts are Zelensky being pinned by the Nazis and the Outlaw US Empire continuing goal to weaken Russia, while Russia continues to demilitarize both NATO and Ukraine, which are now essentially one and the same.

As for the presumption that Putin doesn't seek land, IMO that's incorrect as he would suffer greatly politically if Odessa were abandoned.

The distance from Kiev to Kazan is about 1400 Km. The AD zone between those two points will be close to impossible to penetrate; a truck bomb is more likely.

Russia is again going through a rotation cycle which is why forward movement has slowed for the moment outside of the Kursk region. Quietly, there's been lots of activity in the Kherson region, particularly attacks on rear areas combined with many probes along the LOC, which is the river and its islands. Both Zaporozhe and Kherson regions need to be further cleansed of Ukies, the main political push having been the freeing of the Donetsk region from Ukie attacks, a task well on its way to completion. Freeing Z and K regions provide Russia with more opportunities to demilitarize NATO.

IMO, an assault towards Odessa depends on what happens with the Moldovan elections in October, where Sandu will lose significantly if the election is clean, and where she'll likely employ totalitarian tactics to remain in power and further assault Russians and genuine Moldovans living there--tactics the West will call democracy.

Russia needs to finish the destruction of Ukraine's energy system by rendering the distribution network emanating from its nuclear plants inoperative. Without power, the Ukraine/NATO Propaganda System will cease to function, an outcome few have noted.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2024 17:17 utc | 57

US Congressman:

"The problem is, to get to that point where we have any sort of peace negotiations, Russia must feel like they're going to lose, and we are not there yet,"

This is an astonishing statement, and it remains unbelievable this is the quality of contemporary western politicians.

He might as well say:

“The plan is to equip special forces with zero-gravity suits, and at night sneak them to the other side of Russian front lines. The problem is, we don’t have zero-gravity suits and our scientists are not there yet.”

Posted by: jayc | Sep 21 2024 17:22 utc | 58

[email protected] electrifying is impossible, lots clap with glee every time Russia tries to turn out the lights in 404. Here's the thing, unless Russia plans on cutting every high power wire they will never, ever, turn off the AC/DC.

Most countries bordering 404 right now can and are back feeding power to the Ukie grid. If their Linesmen are any way near as good as ours, they live for outages, that's there job, it's fixable. Also missed by many, back up gensets abound, 150kw and up can power a lot, especially when cycled on and off for peak load.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 21 2024 17:23 utc | 59

back up gensets abound

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 21 2024 17:23 utc | 59

---

Ukraine can use their diesel-electric locomotives to pull trains or to power villages, but not both.

That situation is not as bright and cheery as you pretend.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 21 2024 17:33 utc | 60

Nothing can better illustrate the total ineptitude on economic/military/geopolitical matters of both US and its vassal EU than that they even lack a plan B.

Posted by: j rijntjes | Sep 21 2024 17:34 utc | 61

Is the inclusion of a demand for 1991 borders meant as open submission to the mission goals of NATO? Or is it the poison pill meant for Putin? Lutsenko's this plan is meant to justify negotiations for territory by failing, but Ukraine's war is already failing. It's not clear to me why Zelensky needs this plan to acknowledge the failure. And it is even more unclear why Zelensky would plan for elections at all. And this is especially true since the version presented by Lutsenko declares Zelensky will use the military to rig the election. The military/security services are where the fascists have the most support, they never did have even a plurality in the population as a whole. If Zelensky could use them like that, why didn't he simply rig his re-election on the legal date?

Alternative hypothesis: The victory plan is submission to the fascists in NATO and their cothinkers/allies/puppets in Ukraine. And the call for escalating the war on Russia is not a non-starter precisely because there are indeed imperialists and fascists in NATO who favor this escalation. And the hope either Putin falls or makes some sort of deal on NATO's terms really is the straw Zelensky is clutching at.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 21 2024 17:34 utc | 62

Like everyone else, I'm just speculating here, but if Russia follows its well-established pattern, it will build an iron-clad case against everyone involved in the strikes into Russia, present it to the UN and demand that the perps be punished, and when no action is taken, will have a clear case to attack the perps without them having any standing to invoke NATO Article V or involve the UN politically or as 'peace keepers'. In the meantime, they will go on winning the war in Ukraine at a pace that A) drives the west closer to economic collapse and political fragmentation; B) Accelerates the re-alignment of global political and economic forces toward the BRICS axis; C) Maintains sustainability of military operations with massive, increasing reserves against NATO or member states escalation; and D) increasingly penetrates the domestic narrative in the western MSM and political institutions.

The US has punched the tar baby, both in Ukraine and the ME, and throwing more punches and kicks will only speed it's reduction to complete helplessness.

Posted by: Honzo | Sep 21 2024 17:36 utc | 63

Posted by: Jo | Sep 21 2024 14:50 utc | 1

"Ukrainian petitioners tried to squeeze 400 billion euros out of Ursula von der Leyen, who arrived in Kiev, between 2028 and 2034."

You certainly have a way with words. I initially thought I must have had a time slip...but no its still 2024...

As has been pointed out elsewhere, but only as a result of around 1 Million deaths in Russia/Ukraine - mainly blamed on Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Victoria Jane Nuland, though Craig John Murray(now Scottish, though born in, Norfolk, England by an English Mother who claimed to be at the same meeting, claimed Boris Johnson was largely innocent (which found hard to believe)

When PEACE had been agreed between The Russians and The Ukrainians...

Something else is Going on, which none of us are privy too (either brainwashed or too stupid to real we are all being brainwashed)

Even the Daily Telegrapgh hinted at it today "How Covid destroyed our lives, from newborns to pensioners", though they didn't give the main reason for the currently increasing loss of 31 Million Lives Worldwide from the covid jabs (many young with turbo cancers)

So the plans between 2028 and 2034 are hardly likely to work out, cos there will be no one left of fighting age still alive, as Pepe Escobar pointed out yesterday re the Depopulation Agenda of the WEF/Davos Crowd.

You can't complain about it when you are Dead.

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 21 2024 17:37 utc | 64

Both scenarios tend to leave Zelenskiy & Co. – and Poroshenko's heavenly Harvard graduate angels – at the helm of Ukraine, so, even if he's not the original Maidan figure, the West would be able to keep its most important colour revolution achievement alive.

Truly a victory!

Posted by: js | Sep 21 2024 17:38 utc | 65

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 21 2024 17:23 utc | 59

the question was if it would be a nightmare if russia would conquer all of ukraine, no it would the west would be deelectrified

as you said, cutting all the cables etc and transport them away - takes some time but in that time it will be martial law in that areas, the people wont really notice

Posted by: Macpott | Sep 21 2024 17:38 utc | 66

Pleasant reminder to the bar:

Armchair General: Gawd, Russia! What are you waiting for? Bomb them to shit. Strike Kiev. Go, Go, Go.

Paid trolls: You have been saying for years now that Russia will win any day! Well...?

...

What does the Tao Te Ching have to say about the fog of inaction?

Chapter XX (D.C. Lau)

Exterminate learning and there will no longer be worries.
Between yea and nay
How much difference is there?
Between good and evil
How great is the distance?
What others fear
One must also fear.
And wax without having reached the limit.
The multitude are joyous
As if partaking of the t'ai lao offering
Or going up to a terrace in spring.
I alone am inactive and reveal no signs,
Like a baby that has not yet learned to smile,

listless as though with no home to go back to.
The multitude all have more than enough.
I alone seem to be in want.
My mind is that of a fool - how blank!
Vulgar people are clear.
I alone am drowsy.
Vulgar people are alert.

Chapter XX (Le Guin)

...

Ignorant, Ignorant.
Most people are so bright.
I'm the one that's dull.
Most people are so keen.
I don't have the answers.
Oh, I'm desolate, at sea.
adrift, without harbor.

Everybody has something to do.
I'm the clumsy one, out of place.
I'm the different one,
for my food
is the milk of the mother.

...

Why is Russia so taciturn? Is it because there is no point to cast pearls before swine? Russia will sleepily work through any knot that confounds her. And there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 21 2024 17:40 utc | 67

Russia needs to continue hitting those inbound ships transporting Western-made munitions to Ukraine and Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. A weaker EU and US of A is a win-win situation for Russia and master chess player VPP knows well how that's working until now.

Posted by: AI | Sep 21 2024 17:43 utc | 68

He COULD gp back to the Minsk Accords, but Washington will not let him. War-war-war is too profitable to "defense" corporations and the politicians they buy. :-(

Posted by: lester | Sep 21 2024 17:44 utc | 69

I hope Zelensky has a good evacuation plan for his family. When the end comes, the Nazis will blame him and all the other Jews, for sure.

Posted by: lester | Sep 21 2024 17:46 utc | 70

Without power, the Ukraine/NATO Propaganda System will cease to function, an outcome few have noted.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2024 17:17 utc | 57


It only takes a few emergency generators to run a printing press. The government will continue to have a monopoly on the news after the lights go out, and the ability of Ukrainians to tap into foreign sources will pretty much vanish along with the electricity. I don't think the propaganda is key, though. Regardless of ideology, people will have to vote with their feet as winter sets in.

It seems, btw, that Russia is now starting to cut all the bridges across the Dnieper. This will isolate the great bulk of the Ukrainian military on the side of the river that cannot be supplied or reinforced. Whatever parts of this force manage to swim the Dnieper or cross in rubber rafts will be disarmed and demoralized, and the rest, of course, will have to surrender in short order. The overall manpower of the UAF could fall by fifty per cent, with the bulk of troops west of the Dnieper lacking in training, weapons and combat experience, not to mention leadership.

The logistical situation for Ukrainian forces is already dire. Cutting the bridges is an existential catastrophe.
There's no reason to think the Russians can't easily force the Dnieper as well as attack down the right bank toward Kieve, against Ukraine's vastly inferior remaining forces, and there's lots of reasons to think that units of the UAF would surrender en masse. Cutting the bridges does not in anyway provide 'safety' for western Ukraine.

Posted by: Honzo | Sep 21 2024 17:47 utc | 71

I guess ukraine dropped its law forbidding negotiations with Putin.

At any rate it represents a backslide and an admission that they don't think Harris will win.

Russia should ignore it and take the drone strike hits. Some are impressive but russia is too big for a big strike once a month.

Each successful strike only makes Russia harden it's defences lowering the probability of repeat successes. I'm guessing the kursk operation needed more to threaten directly sensitive Russian interests to work in conjunction with a long range strike barrage.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Sep 21 2024 17:47 utc | 72

The draft December 2021 European security architecture treaty by Russia hasn’t gone away.

Just sayin’...

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 21 2024 17:48 utc | 73

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 16:30 utc | 45

How many troops does USA have in Europe?

I guess nothing near the number needed to retaliate against RF in a boot on ground type, expecially if RF missiles, even kinetic, could hit quite a significant part of Europe.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 21 2024 17:51 utc | 74

"... Ukraine is a state in which a small minority of well armed and ruthless fascists have control over all major political decisions.,,"

And the fascist thugs owe their impunity and strength to NATO. The Bandera lobby in Canada is almost as powerful as the Likud lobby which is why there is no end to the money, arms and military assistance being poured into the country. The situation elsewhere in NATO is similar.

The Russian position which puzzles so many observers is a reflection of the very fragile political coalition, ranging from former Red Army hawks through obscenely powerful (criminal) and wealthy oligarchs to neo-liberal ideologues trained in the US, which Putin's political genius has cobbled together to rebuild Russian sovereignty.
The coalition has many strengths, it has brought society from the abyss of market cannibalism ('fuck the poor; nature intends them to be slaves') individualism back to the restoration of such essential services as education, healthcare, housing and minimum incomes.
In doing so it has, in the face of oligarchical opposition supported by foreign investors, made it possible for Russia to recruit hundreds of thousands of volunteers to fight for a country they see as theirs, but it has done so at a very stiff price, part of which takes the form of Russia's refusal to take the obvious, cheap and most efficient way of ending this war. Which is to support a revolutionary movement in Ukraine, giving political assistance, including arms if necessary, to the millions of working class Ukrainians kept in line and forced to tolerate intolerable living conditions, low pay, collapsing services and Neo Nazi inspired criminal rule by a regime which is unopposed largely because Russia is afraid of angering the oligarchs who regard Ukraine and its resources, not as the property of its citizens but as loot for their class.
For example Russia ought to make it clear that any peace settlement will restore Ukraine's agricultural land and mineral resources to Ukrainians and that all 'deals' made between the Fascists in Kiev and corporations like Blackrock are void. They ought also to be demanding elections of the 'free' variety to which NATO pays lip service and under proper obervation (perhaps by Venezuela where the art is perfected) before any treaties can be ratified.
Given open political conditions and freedom of choice there is little doubt that most Ukrainians would happily shuck off the failed indoctrination experiments, the slavophobia (in a land populated by slavs) and the submission to imperial masters which led directly the the ruination of their country and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of its young men, not to mention the flight of millions more abroad.
The break up of the remnants of the Ukrainian army, and its transformation from a bulwark of the regime to its executioner requires little more than an unequivocal Russian commitment to the restoration of democratic choice to the population. No doubt it would offend many in Putin's coalition to demand that Ukraine be governed by its population, rather than the thieves enslaving it but it would galvanise the suffering masses in the country into emulating those brave Italian partisans who, defying the British and American authorities, made quick work of Mussolini, his mistress and his fascist cadres on April 28th 1945.

The reality is that if Russia allowed the political fuel in Ukraine to be ignited not only would the war end very quickly but the example of the Ukrainian explosion would spread quickly throughout NATO where the longing for change is growing everywhere and where, in the absence of radical popular movements neo-fascist bigotry, openly supported by Zionists, are rushing into the vacuum created by the systematic demolition of the socialist movement.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 21 2024 17:52 utc | 75

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 21 2024 17:23 utc | 59

Local generators require a lot of fuel and logistic and are not designed to continuous operational cycle.

Only think that keeps Ukraine partially energized are the npp and the risk connected to cut their connections from the grid or full destruction of energy supply.

Targeting supply from other EU countries is a possibility. Consider that in 2003 an incident on an high power line connecting Swiss to Italy caused a total blackout in Italy.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 21 2024 18:00 utc | 76

Ukraine Weekly Update, 20th Sept 2024: May be Useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-006

Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Sep 21 2024 18:07 utc | 77

US Congressman:

"The problem is, to get to that point where we have any sort of peace negotiations, Russia must feel like they're going to lose, and we are not there yet,"

This is an astonishing statement, and it remains unbelievable this is the quality of contemporary western politicians.

He might as well say:

“The plan is to equip special forces with zero-gravity suits, and at night sneak them to the other side of Russian front lines. The problem is, we don’t have zero-gravity suits and our scientists are not there yet.”

Posted by: jayc | Sep 21 2024 17:22 utc | 58

So true. This moron is from California and has tremendous clout only because his dad is Leon Panetta, former CIA chief. Nepotism is a huge factor in the decline of US ruling class. Oh, guess who's running for Congress, Eugene Vindman. Recognize that last name? Yes, it's the brother of Alexander Vindman, the 5th columnist Ukronazi in US military intelligence who testified against Trump at his first impeachment hearing.

It's like those charts showing Roman emperors from glorious Augustus to the sad loser Romulus Augustulus. It's nothing but Romulus Augustulus at this point for the sad loser US imperialism.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 21 2024 18:10 utc | 78

@ bevin | Sep 21 2024 17:52 utc | 75 with a comment about what Russia is doing wrong.

The revolutionary movement you ask for in Ukraine is the revolutionary movement going on all over our world.

Given the extent of brainwashing that has occurred in Ukraine, I think it will take some time for the public there and returning to unlearn their hatred for everything Russian. And then their revolution can occur.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 21 2024 18:11 utc | 79

NemesisCalling | Sep 21 2024 17:40 utc | 67

"the Tao Te Ching"

I never, quite got that, but my wife can be somewhat annoying, almost depressed, if she misses her exercise classes and especially her Yoga Class on a Friday morning.

However it was quite obvious to the Senior Management at work, that I was a Really Annoying Person, cos I said what I thought of Them (which was not good)

They said Calm down Tony, go on This High Level Stress Management Reduction Course - its only one day - so I said OK - but didn't think it would work...And there were about 20 of us - all Angry Senior Managers extremely annoyed with the Useless Bastards Now in Control....

And he did it - He used all the tricks in his book - like a hypnotist - not trying to cheat us, to bring us to a state of Deep Relaxation - still aware but kind of cool, like in a state of Prayer

He then brought us out of it to normal, and asked what we thought.

I put my hand up...I said that was like the best joint, I have ever had...and Everyone Laughed.


Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 21 2024 18:14 utc | 80

# The NATO plan was to weaken the Russian Federation.

# NATO has ended up weaker.

# Russian Federation has ended up stronger and .. er .. bigger.

Facts.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 21 2024 18:23 utc | 81

thanks b.. i agree with your conclusions at the end...

regarding this quote below - what an idiot... i guess this is the level that usa representatives have dropped to.. who votes for these buffoons??

"The problem is, to get to that point where we have any sort of peace negotiations, Russia must feel like they're going to lose, and we are not there yet," Rep. Jimmy Panetta, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee in Congress, told the Kyiv Independent.
"I hope part of this victory plan is how we can shape battlefield conditions to reach that point," said Panetta, who met Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in Kyiv last weekend."

Posted by: james | Sep 21 2024 18:23 utc | 82

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 21 2024 18:14 utc | 80

Fuck off Tony. I am embarassed to be the same nationality as you.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 21 2024 18:25 utc | 83

Posted by: bevin | Sep 21 2024 17:52 utc | 75

Wow, bevin is back. I can see you haven't lost any of your marbles.

I have missed you.

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 21 2024 18:27 utc | 84

"How many troops does USA have in Europe?"

Mario (74).

That's not the point - the point is a strike in Europe - especially in a major EU nation, such as France, Germany, Poland etc - would, all but see a retaliatory strike from Nato into Russia - from there on in - it could be tit-for-tat strikes until it escalates - the world would watching, so, I doubt Nato - which tries to project power - would let a strike in Europe on a major ally slide.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 18:28 utc | 85

Fuck off Tony. I am embarassed to be the same nationality as you.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 21 2024 18:25 utc | 83

Typical Scouser - Its Day Tripper - cut down on the acid Yank

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 21 2024 18:31 utc | 86

"I hope part of this victory plan is how we can shape battlefield conditions to reach that point," said Panetta, who met Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in Kyiv last weekend."

Posted by: james | Sep 21 2024 18:23 utc | 82

They think like salesmen. How to get to making the sale.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 21 2024 18:32 utc | 87

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Sep 21 2024 18:31 utc | 86

Listen you fool, people are here to discuss serious geo-political matters relating to the war in Ukraine, not to you read about your personal stream of consciouness/untreated personality disorder.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 21 2024 18:33 utc | 88

Very obvious b doesn't know US.

"The 'victory plan' requests are of course outrageous and delusional and have little to no chance to be fulfilled."

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2024 18:34 utc | 89

[email protected] fuel were an issue Ukie would walk to the front. There is lots of fuel in 404. So much so that the RF quite recently blew up a large refinery, so it functioned for 2.5 years and supported the AntiSMO actions. An example where commerce takes precedence and Oligarchy rules.....and its not like people on both side of the conflict are not on the take.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 21 2024 18:45 utc | 90

Honzo | Sep 21 2024 17:47 utc | 71--

Thanks for your reply. Yes, the government will have gensets and such, but the people for the most part will not have the means to receive any electronic propaganda, which is the dominant form, not newspaper.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2024 18:49 utc | 91

" Is that not the sign how homogeneous the UK society is today? That the majority is ready to sacrifice themselves in order to defeat and plunder Russia.

Posted by: vargas | Sep 21 2024 14:54 utc | 2 "


No, it just shows how beaten down they are by the government. The British cant even protest their own intentional replacement by imported " migrants", without getting beaten down by "their own" government do you believe the government will allow them to protest against aid to Ukraine ? One can also ask, why arent the tens of millions of Muslims in the west out in force , daily , demanding a stop to whats going on in Gaza ?

Posted by: Moonie | Sep 21 2024 18:50 utc | 92

A little history including Peter Lacy's capture of Crimea for Russian Empire

How the Irish Influenced Russia's Military and Culture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLsJksRfai8 [8 mins]

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 21 2024 18:51 utc | 93

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWIFZV6RFiE

Dudes, this makes it sound like Russia is finally destroying the last of the grid. Much of Ukraine will be uninhabitable. Good Luck with those refugees, EU.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 21 2024 18:51 utc | 94

@2 Vargas

"... money to Ukraine.
There are no protests, no discontent about that"


UK 12.7 bn pounds to now (mil and aid, according to web)


No one says anything. Why ? Because they know they will bring trouble on themselves, and also because they will appear selfish.


EU 88 bn eu to now (mil and aid, according to web)

No one says anything. Why ? Because they know they will bring trouble on themselves, and because they will appear nationalistic.

The bureaucratic barriers are also impossible to navigate, and the paymasters unreachable.


The Brits are less friendly towards Russia than on the continent, and the north of europe is less friendly than the south towards Russia. The British establishment has Russia pinned as an enemy, some Brits see it that way, but most distrust it all (including Russia). That is to say the 'average Brit' hasn't in mind to make sacrifices or to plunder, but will be on the side of his/her own country (not necessarily on the side of the establishment) before having sympathy for Russia.

Something like that.

Posted by: Ornot | Sep 21 2024 18:55 utc | 95

" Can we imagine what would happen if Ukraine hits Kazan, killing Xi, Modi, and Erdogan?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2024 16:16 utc | 35 "


Absolutely nothing, because all the sides would pretend like they didnt know who did the deed, Just like with North stream and the pager attack. Russia and China will talk about pager attacks and terrorism but never dare to name the perpetrators.


Fun fact: Russia's great ally and partner just banned RT and Sputnik because US sanctions gave them a command and they asked " How high master ? " Go BRICS !!!

- TikTok deletes RT and Sputnik accounts
The move comes after the US imposed sanctions on several Russian media outlets, including RT -

https://www.rt.com/russia/604424-tiktok-deletes-sputnik-accounts/

Posted by: Moonie | Sep 21 2024 18:59 utc | 96

Since the OT item's been broached:

The depth of Chinese solidarity with Russia shows its shallowness with TikTok's banning RT, Sputnik and likely other Russian media outlets. I'm very disappointed. Those who manage ByteDance are cowards to the nth degree and deserve to have their platform go bankrupt as users drop it like the poison it has proven itself to be. China is massively dishonored and must react accordingly.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2024 19:02 utc | 97

At the end, at least in Europe, it will come down to who of the following can prevail: it is worth risking all-out war to defend a certain way of life (democracy, domination of market mechanisms, individual freedom: the Ferenghi society) or it is not worth it for various reasons, doesn't matter which ones. The ideological war: is it worth it or not.

It depends on the calculus on how likely are you to win. Not that much on what ideology is best. Propaganda is heavily tilting the balance towards #1 but lies do have the ability to surface.

Especially if it becomes more clear that #1 is about defending the right of *others* (ukrainians) to live in a certain way, not self. And even that is half true as half of the population leans Russian.

But miscalculations happen.

Posted by: alek_a | Sep 21 2024 19:03 utc | 98

schmoe (17).

If that is indeed the case - and I'm sure Russian military leaders would know by now if were or not - then Putin might well indeed be planning retaliatory strikes - if its Storm-Shadow missiles - as they cannot be used without the aid of UK troops and Nato satellites.

The other options are - that, its not Storm Shadow missiles - or missiles that require Nato troops to launch them from Ukraine - or Putin was bluffing and he won't strike Nato countries, that have provided troops and missiles to strike deep inside Russia.

The last option is of course the sanest - to thwart a quick escalation - however - Nato, would see that as a weakness - and up its attack game plan - and Putin would need to react in kind.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 21 2024 19:03 utc | 99

This posted by lovedonbass above my fellow barflies is all you need to know:

The answer is simple and obvious.

Russia doesn’t want a war with NATO.

Not when they are on the cusp of defeating the West bloodlessly via a new economic order that removes the West’s one artificial advantage (money printing), which will collapse their psychopathic agenda quickly.

The Ukrainian Civil War is a sideshow.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 21 2024 19:03 utc | 100

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