Ukraine Open Thread 2024-229

September 26, 2024

News & views related to the war in Ukraine …

According to the Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (14 September – 20 September 2024) the Ukrainian military lost a total of 24 tanks and 125 other Armored Fighting Vehicles during that week.

Of these only 6 tanks and 18 AFV were lost along the 1,000+ kilometer frontline within Ukraine. A total of 18 tanks and 117 AFV were lost due to the Ukrainian incursion of the Russian Kursk oblast.

This emphasizes the fact that the Ukrainian forces has used most of its material resources into the morale lifting public-relation campaign in Kursk without achieving much else, if anything, of value. There is little chance that any of the losses incurred during that short campaign will ever get a replacement.

The incursion will thus become a historic lecture of how not to employ ones scarce resources for short term political reasons.

Posted by b on September 26, 2024 at 10:45 UTC | Permalink

Comments

AI@88…Trump says 404 is in ruins and will take over 100 years to rebuild, if ever. He suggested to Zman to take whatever deal Russia offers…..I think he even called Zelly stupid.
Maybe there is hope.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 26 2024 17:41 utc | 101

Today’s Russian Defence Ministry update on the SMO. A harrowing number of troop losses, plus confirmation of the airfield strike:

Russian Defence Ministry reports on the progress of the special military operation (26 September 2024)
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.
Units of the Sever Group of Forces inflicted losses on formations of the 57th Motorised Infantry Brigade of the AFU, 36th Marine Brigade, and 113th Territorial Defence Brigade near Liptsy, Volchansk, and Volchanskye Khutora (Kharkov region).
The AFU losses amounted to up to 235 troops, three motor vehicles, one 152-mm D-20 gun, one 122-mm D-30 howitzer, one 122-mm Grad MLRS launcher.
Units of the Zapad Group of Forces took more advantageous lines and positions as well as inflicted losses on manpower and hardware of the 3rd Tank Brigade, 14th, 44th, 53rd, 63rd, 66th mechanised brigades of the AFU near Kupyansk-Uzlovoy, Petropavlovka, Vishnyovoye, Pershetravnevoye, Olgovka (Kharkov region), Grigorovka (Donetsk People’s Republic), and Chervonaya Dibrova (Lugansk People’s Republic).
One counter-attack launched by an assault detachment of the AFU 66th Mechanised Brigade was repelled.
The AFU losses amounted to up to 435 troops, one Kozak armoured fighting vehicle, eight motor vehicles, one U.S.-made 155-mm M198 howitzer, two Polish-made 155-mm Krab self-propelled artillery systems, one 122-mm Gvozdika self-propelled artillery system, one 122-mm D-30 howitzer, and one Croatian-made RAK-SA-12 MLRS launcher.
Two Anklav-N electronic warfare stations, one U.S.-made AN/TPQ-37 counter-battery radar, and two ammunition depots were destroyed.
Units of the Yug Group of Forces improved the tactical situation along the front line and inflicted losses on formations of the 24th, 54th mechanised brigades of the AFU, and 119th Territorial Defence Brigade near Seversk, Verkhnekamenskoye, Kramatorsk, and Nikolayevka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
The AFU losses amounted to up to 750 troops, ten motor vehicles, two U.S.-made 155-mm M777 howitzers, one Polish-made 155-mm Krab self-propelled artillery system, one 152-mm D-20 gun, two 152-mm Akatsiya self-propelled artillery systems, one U.S.-made 105-mm M119 gun, Anklav-N and Nota electronic warfare stations. Nine ammunition depots were destroyed.
As a result of decisive actions, units of the Tsentr Group of Forces liberated Ukrainsk (Donetsk People’s Republic).
Losses were inflicted on manpower and hardware of the 53rd, 100th, 110th, 151st mechanised brigades, 68th Jaeger Brigade of the AFU, and 116th Territorial Defence Brigade near Leonidovka, Krasnoarmeysk, Shcherbinovka, Dobropolye, Nikolayevka, Gornyak, and Tarasovka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
Ten counter-attacks launched by assault detachments of the 53rd, 150th, and 151st mechanised brigades, 59th Motorised Infantry Brigade, 68th Jaeger Brigade, 142nd Infantry Brigade of the AFU, 12th, 14th, and 15th national guard brigades were repelled.
The AFU losses amounted to up to 670 troops, one tank, two armoured fighting vehicles, five motor vehicles, two 152-mm D-20 guns, and one 152-mm Giatsint-B gun.
Units of the Vostok Group of Forces improved the tactical situation along the front line and inflicted losses on formations of the 72nd Mechanised Brigade, 58th Motorised Infantry Brigade of the AFU, and 118th Territorial Defence Brigade near Ugledar, Novoukrainka, and Zolotaya Niva (Donetsk People’s Republic).
Two counter-attacks launched by assault detachments of the AFU 72nd Mechanised Brigade were repelled.
The AFU losses amounted to up to 130 troops, one tank, three infantry fighting vehicles, seven motor vehicles, and one French-made 155-mm CAESAR self-propelled artillery system.
Units of the Dnepr Group of Forces took more advantageous lines and inflicted losses on manpower and hardware of the 39th Coastal Defence Brigade and 124th Territorial Defence Brigade near Ponyatovka, Antonovka, and Pridneprovskoye (Kherson region).
The AFU losses amounted to up to 60 troops, ten motor vehicles, one 155-mm Bogdana self-propelled artillery system, and one 152-mm Msta-B howitzer. One P-19 radar station and one ammunition depot were destroyed.
Operational-Tactical Aviation, unmanned aerial vehicles, and Missile Troops and Artillery of the Russian Groups of Forces delivered strikes at power objects ensuring operation of Ukrainian defence industry enterprises, infrastructure of a military airfield, and engaged AFU manpower and hardware clusters in 142 areas.
Air defence units shot down one Neptune long-range guided missile, three French-made Hammer guided aerial bombs, five U.S.-made HIMARS MLRS projectiles, and 45 fixed-wing unmanned aerial vehicles.
In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 646 aircraft, 283 helicopters, 32,263 unmanned aerial vehicles, 579 anti-aircraft missile systems, 18,356 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 1,464 MLRS combat vehicles, 15,207 field artillery guns and mortars, and 26,510 units of support military vehicles have been neutralised.

https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12530596@egNews

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 26 2024 17:46 utc | 102

The right-wing in Ukraine wont allow concessions to resolve the conflict.
The western MIC does not want the conflict settled.
The west is supporting what is left of Ukraine and there is plenty for Zelensky and friends to skim – doubtless with some consideration to Biden and family.
The conflict continues to be a drain on Russia and its relations with others – though I would say it is a case of what doesnt kill it will make it stronger.
Well, yes some people are dying.
So it’s win/win/win/win/lose.
Russia seems to have significant problems in the state of technology, the outlook of its people, the state of it’s economy and trade and some issues with corruption (no doubt the same could be said for much of the west) – that is where it’s greatest challenge lies.

Posted by: jared | Sep 26 2024 17:48 utc | 103

A Russian analytics channel about another Putin’s threat:
https://t.me/anatoly_nesmiyan/20740

And also about the threat of using nuclear weapons in the event of a “massive launch” “when crossing the border”.
There is a classic triad: “warrior-priest-merchant”. The Kremlin and its current inhabitants are merchants. Not even merchants – traders.
An attempt to cosplay a warrior still leads to banal and very primitive trade on the verge of blackmail. All the formulations are vague and leave a wide space for the very trade that is their essence.
A “warrior” formulates his thoughts unambiguously and without double reading. Sometimes this directness is excessive, but in cases when it comes to direct threats, it is precisely the unambiguity that is the critical factor.
A trader is a trader. Even in serious matters, he will dodge and wriggle. By the way, this is why a trader should not deal with military issues – it is not his thing.
What is a “massive launch”? Ten UAVs, forty or one hundred and fifty? What does “may consider” mean? There’s an option to not consider, it seems?
The response protocol is a clear-cut thing. Either we react, or we sit still and express concern.
“May consider” is not a response. It is a very primitive trading position. That’s all.
Woe to the country when traders start imagining themselves as great warriors and make a bloody mess, having no ability to make military decisions.
In the case of this statement about the threat of use – this is exactly about the inhabitants of the Kremlin.
The vagueness of the threat devalues it. Once again, they wanted to scare, but did not specify where to be afraid. This is a circus in its purest form.

Posted by: AI_Revenger | Sep 26 2024 17:59 utc | 104

“Just because something is stupid… doesn’t mean they won’t do it.” -Old corporate management saying.
Posted by: MaryPeck | Sep 26 2024 10:56 utc | 1
When the enemy is doing something stupid, don’t stop him.

Posted by: Naive | Sep 26 2024 18:01 utc | 105

Posted by: AI_Revenger | Sep 26 2024 17:59 utc | 104
Far too simplistic; strategic ambiguity hasn’t gone away, keep your opponent guessing as to your real intentions.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 26 2024 18:05 utc | 106

31 JLM:
It’s a big question and the simple answer is “I don’t know”. But let me give you my Bayesian guesses.
1. I think that there could be three basic strategic rationales for the Kursk area invasion (in order from the most weighty):
a. An actual “center of gravity” to turn the war. As for instance, cutting the land bridge to Crimea would be (or in a lesser sense, capturing Pokrovsk would be). I.e. something that could fundamentally change the course of the war in an operational military sense (as Normandy invasion did, e.g.). I DOUBT this was their objective, because (a) forces were much too small for that, and (b) Russia has incredibly large area and you’d actually have to move well past CITY of Kursk or nuclear plant or any of those ramblings you see on the Internet. So…it was never “strategic” in the big arrow sense.
b. A black eye for Putin and something to partially (PARTIALLY) change the dynamic, of future peace negotiations or ceasefires or what have you. I think this is the most likely. Any way you look at it, the UFA did a medium scale incursion (larger than the Kharkiv one by RFA, but smaller than the overall RFA push in 2022). And they did it extremely well operationally (planning, maps, intelligence, etc.) I think it’s pretty clear that Putin, despite formally annexing the five provinces, does not treat them as real Russian ground (e.g. conscripts allowed to defend old Russian ground, but not in the annexed areas). So, it’s got that nature of being a little different than any random areas.
c. Just grabbing what you can grab. There is a principle in attritional warfare, where you basically fight very conservatively. Not big arrows. Not “meat waves”. Not punching through. Not D-Day invasions. Instead you only advance within your bubble of support, and very slowly, methodically. General Grant…not General Lee. BUT. You do try to keep the whole front a question mark for the opponent. E.g. the RFA will attack one sector that is weakened and ignore another that is strengthened. With this in mind, going after this piece of (poorly defended) territory, would just sort of be “we take, what can be taken”.
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wDu8hkJJ6o (time 0:15).
——
My guess (and it is a guess, I’m not inside the UFA heads) is that the rationale was mostly (b), with a little (c). Not (a). It is just clearly too small a move to ever be “a”.
Also, FWIW, I think it was well done. And (again this is just a bystander guess), but was probably worth doing. For one thing, it is much easier to defend than to attack. So, why use your best troops and special forces in trenches (UFA has also been criticized for that). Instead use them for something the cannon fodder can’t do.
Now that it was a good move doesn’t mean it was SUFFICIENT. After all, the chess board may be tilted against the UFA. But the move itself, was probably sound.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 26 2024 18:07 utc | 107

Link won’t take so here it is in full:

Embassy Comment On The Uk Foreign Secretary’s Unacceptable Remarks At The Un Security Council Meeting
Russian Embassy to the UKSeptember 25, 2024
Speaking at the UN Security Council meeting on 24 September, UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy once again resorted to completely unacceptable insults against Russia’s leadership. His statements reflect, firstly, a lack of familiarity with norms of conduct among states and appropriate manners, and, secondly, a poor grasp of the subject under discussion at the UN Security Council.
Regrettably, it is no longer surprising to witness the UK top diplomat’s amateurish approach to global historical processes. David Lammy’s brazen attempts to accuse Russia of “imperialism” appear patently absurd, giving the impression that he does not fully comprehend on whose behalf he speaks – whether it is the UK, with its dark legacy of brutal colonial exploitation of numerous countries, or the descendants of those who suffered under Britain’s own slave trade. This is a matter Mr Lammy should perhaps clarify for himself.
Speaking of anti-imperialist traditions, it should be noted that the Soviet Union, of which the Russian Federation is the successor state, played a pivotal role in the decolonisation process of the 20th century, providing immense support to liberation movements across many parts of the world. Even today, Russia is not merely paying lip service to the issue, as David Lammy does; it is consistently and resolutely opposing the manifestations of neocolonialism in practice.
If the UK Foreign Secretary is indeed as committed to fighting the legacy of “imperialism” as he claims, it would be advisable that he uses his time in office to reassess London’s foreign policy, currently based on the aggressive imposition of unilateral Western perspectives and false “values” around the globe under the guise of establishing a “rules-based international order.” He should pay special attention to Ukraine, which Britain and its American allies have turned into a vassal state, where human rights of the Russian-speaking population are violated, and decision-making is subordinated to the whims and donations of Western patrons. Meanwhile, cloaking their true intentions in lofty slogans about “defending Ukraine’s democracy and independence”, the West is steadily stripping the country of its assets, including its natural resources.
We are convinced that David Lammy’s hypocrisy is evident to those in the Global South who are well-acquainted with British imperialism, particularly as London now seeks to charm these nations via the efforts of its “progressive” Foreign Secretary.
As far as accusations of corruption are concerned, it is rather odd to hear such claims from British officials, especially in light of the corruption-tainted scandals that have regularly shaken the United Kingdom under both Conservative and Labour governments.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 26 2024 18:07 utc | 108

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 26 2024 18:07 utc | 108
That was just beautiful. Impressive.
If the world could just listen …

Posted by: Avtonom | Sep 26 2024 18:13 utc | 109

DS map intel dropped at 1700 CET:
https://deepstatemap.live/en#13/48.3868672/37.8884125
1. Large advance on the W flank of Vuhledar. Puts the city into a pretty decent pocket. W edge of the town is 0.9 km from the red and 0.5km from the gray. (No change in town itself, gray zone or red, or in the S or E flanks.)
2. Pretty decent advance on the NW Pokrovsk (“Oche flower” salient. Kruti Yar, Kransi Yar, and Mickhailivka are all now under red/gray (about 50/50). Moving closer to being able to attack Myrnograd, the sister city of Pokrovsk. Only 1.3 km from the gray to the SE corner of that town. (2.2 km from the red.)
3. (+UKR) reversal of a small RFA salient in tree line towards Selidove. (Clarification, i.e. map correction, not a counterattack.) Both the red and the gray corrected backwards.
4. (+UKR) Reversal of a small RFA gain from yesterday, near Staromaiorske. (Clarification, i.e. map correction, not a counterattack.) The red reversed, but gray remained. Looks like there is some sort of compound or industrial facility or the like, that is the subject of debate. Maybe he got intel that both forces are still within it, so changed it to gray. Not a huge deal, but FYI.

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 26 2024 18:27 utc | 110

Posted by: AI_Revenger | Sep 26 2024 17:59 utc | 104
Long time no hear from Nesmeyan aka Al-Murid, he’s of the Girkin crowd.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 26 2024 18:40 utc | 111

It’s probably why they are losing the war. The Ukies and Imperialism can’t even make an objective analysis of the situation. The lies they have been telling themselves from day one are the most deadly.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 26 2024 15:54 utc | 72
And NAFOs have been the most useful idiots ever by cheering the lambs to the slaughter based upon those same lies.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Sep 26 2024 17:35 utc | 99
Exactly. They are just weakening their own side with “uplifting” disinformation. NAFO affiliation is the mark of the born loser.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 26 2024 18:47 utc | 112

NATO seems to have significant problems…
Posted by: jared | Sep 26 2024 17:48 utc | 103
Corrected that for you.

Posted by: TJandTheBear | Sep 26 2024 18:53 utc | 113

‼️🇷🇺💥🇺🇸🏴‍☠️🇺🇦 At the moment, there is such information about the ⚠️ F-16:
At the Starokonstantinov airfield, two ⚠️ F-16 fighter jets were hit while attempting to take off. At the airfield itself, a ⚠️ Su-24 modernized for launching Storm Shadow missiles was also destroyed. An open storage warehouse with 12 Storm Shadow missiles may have also been destroyed.
The extent of damage to the F16 has not yet been determined, but the hull and fuselage were damaged during the takeoff attempt. The SU-24 burned out.
The information will be updated

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/128553

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 26 2024 18:54 utc | 114

he’s of the Girkin crowd.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 26 2024 18:40 utc | 111
Thank you for that information, it explains why I was thinking to myself “What the heck am I reading here?”.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 26 2024 19:00 utc | 115

A serviceman of the 17th separate brigade, Ivan Mikhailovich Zolotorev, updated his data in just 15 minutes and was immediately sent to the LBS in the Kursk region. He was very afraid that something would be cut off in captivity. Tales about Russian captivity have become almost folklore in Ukrainian training camps.
As it turned out, everything is not so scary. In captivity, they fed him, warmed him up and provided first aid.
@warriorofnorth

Several weeks ago some here were saying that the Ukrainian invaders of Kursk would be destroyed and implied that Russia wouldn’t be taking prisoners. Instead you see Russia priding itself on being nice the criminals. Russia is too soft to win this war. These captives will be released in 2 months and be back fighting on the front somewhere.

Posted by: MiniMO | Sep 26 2024 19:16 utc | 116

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 26 2024 19:00 utc | 115
Many of his claims are real, but openly anti Putin, but that’s natural and fine, after all Putin never made it beyond 80% approval so there is room for contrarian views. Girkin was offered a place in the front but he did not accept Prigozhin’s offer. They’re out of it though, victory is not achieved with pessimists, no matter how many problems need to be solved and that is why in my opinion Al-Murid lost relevance to patriotic writers like the late Vladlen Tatarsky or the very popular Rozhin with his Colonel Cassad, Prilepin with the writers view, and many others. Many of them come from the LiveJournal platform, Limonov was there too, too bad he’s not alive, same goes for Zhirinovsky.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 26 2024 19:21 utc | 117

There is a classic triad: “warrior-priest-merchant”.
Posted by: AI_Revenger | Sep 26 2024 17:59 utc | 104
It looks like the author forgot a 4th category: traitors.

Posted by: Naive | Sep 26 2024 19:22 utc | 118

Good news! Blinken has said Russia’s new nuclear doctrine is “completely irresponsible”.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 26 2024 19:29 utc | 119

It strikes me that 404’s fundamental issue is the insertion of politics, and hence optics, in the traditional OODA loop.
OODA, in Boyd’s classic formulation, is:
Observe
Orient
Decide
Act
Then spin the loop continually.
But what appears to be happening in 404, and do recall that Z owns a TV production company, is OOPSY:
Observe
Orient
Political Directive, going against warnings and putative Decisions from Actual Military Types
Stunt action for the cameras
You were warned…..as the losses mount.
Then, spin the OOPSY loop yet again, hoping for different results this time…

Posted by: Waymad | Sep 26 2024 19:34 utc | 120

Posted by: AI_Revenger | Sep 26 2024 17:59 utc | 104
#########
You don’t have to bother linking us to Russian Doom-Bloggers. We’re well aware that Putin cannot do anything correctly. 🙄

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2024 19:43 utc | 121

b at 10:45 UTC:
“A total of 18 tanks and 117 AFV were lost due to the Ukrainian incursion of the Russian Kursk oblast ..
.. This emphasizes the fact that the Ukrainian forces has used most of its material resources into the morale lifting public-relation campaign in Kursk without achieving much else, if anything, of value. ..”
Pls excuse, though a “total of 18 tanks and 117 AFV were lost” may be great for today, that’s only a ‘lot’ by means of an effective counter meausures by RF.
So, Kursk today MIL reports remain as is, a plus/miunus strategical ongoing argument for the Piano-Cock-Player Mr.Z. in NY-City.
RF-Gov having updated its “Nuclear Doctrine” for a second – and for a third now – and what further “updates” are being expected & acknowleged by the global world’s countries leaders (ie. India, N-Korea, IRAN, Saudis, UAF, S-Korea, Japan, S-Africa, Brazil, etc. ?
Would be interesting to follow-up those replies to the new Russian MIL Nuclear Doctrine – or not listening here on that ?
Best today: only a few of Moa’s ‘trolls’ seem to be underway that moment, keep it that .. even newly tried AI-Bots ..
Cheers.

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 20:02 utc | 122

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 26 2024 19:29 utc | 119

Good news! Blinken has said Russia’s new nuclear doctrine is “completely irresponsible”.

So he’s scared but this Jew is famous for being stupid so I don’t know, maybe he didn’t read the new doctrine and just repeated a line he’d have used even if asked his opinion about the extensions of the metro lines in Moscow.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Sep 26 2024 20:02 utc | 123

Russia is too soft to win this war. These captives will be released in 2 months and be back fighting on the front somewhere.
Posted by: MiniMO | Sep 26 2024 19:16 utc | 116
#######
She said 500,000+ 200s and 300s later. Womp Womp.
Maybe, they will return to the Nazis to tell them the truth about Russian captivity.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2024 20:08 utc | 124

Testing

Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 20:10 utc | 125

Testing
Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 20:10 utc | 125
You passed

Posted by: frithguild | Sep 26 2024 20:13 utc | 126

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 26 2024 14:02 utc | 43
This has been my experience as well. The internet is rife with “balanced” analysts who split the difference under the fallacy that both reports are equally likely to be true when observation indicates otherwise.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 26 2024 20:15 utc | 127

Doctor Eleven@91 I appreciate the effort. Thank you. Nonetheless, I do not think gold is inherently more scarce than a number of other commodities, like diamonds or rare earth metals (not actually “rare” but effectively so as they are so difficult to extract…if gold in seawater could be easily extracted, gold wouldn’t even be scarce, if I remember the numbers correctly.) Further, the scarcity is relative to the abstract socially necessary labor power, living and crystallized (aka fixed physical capital.) The question of why gold is pursued beyond profit in selling it to be used, instead of hoarded, is the one that needs to be answered. The discovery of a major gold field would suddenly change the value of expanded production of gold (accumulation of capital for gold hoards,) plus any cartelization of gold production a la diamonds would change the exchange value of gold hoards. That means no inherent quality of gold determines it as the money commodity. Other commodities have served as money, potentially hoards, too. But again, thank you for your courtesy.
I must add that in a capitalist world economy, unbalanced trade will, just as it has in history, leave some nations with more gold and others short. A central bank or a replacement institutions(s) that can address this issue, serve as lender as last resort and guarantee liquidity (usually via government securities, by the way) is required. My problem is I don’t see even how gold serves as a transition. A world economy divided into semi-separate currency blocs seems to me to be a poorer world, not the goal of socialism in my understanding.
William Gruff@95 As I understand it, no commodities have a constant abstract socially necessary labor time. The overall level of profit (in the varied forms that include interest and rent) are determined by said abstract socially necessary labor time—which is a product of class struggle in production (aka the rate of surplus value) and the vicissitudes of the anarchy of production. Ditto for gold, compounded by unequal distribution of accessible gold deposits.
Further, commodities in general have prices that fluctuate around the prices of production, specifically the reproduction cost of the commodity in expanded circulation, where the surplus value is redistributed according to the organic composition of capital in the specific sphere of production (and substitutable commodities) which includes the rate of surplus value, turnover time and proportion of socially necessary abstract labor time in basically wages (aka variable capital) and costs of machinery (fixed capital). This abbreviated description (sorry it is,) omits circulating capital and the variation in individual firms, as well as the fact that in developed market societies all these transactions are carried out with money, not labor time certificates. The upshot is of course that a simple labor theory of value a la Adam Smith and David Ricardo is not quite correct and useful only for certain questions, different contexts.
Nokaz@100 The last I looked, the US and Canada are gold producers and other major gold producers are Brazil, India, Indonesia, all countries with huge US influence (if not perfect obedience.) It remains to be see is BRICS+ can undo that.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 26 2024 20:17 utc | 128

Passerby @ 119

Good news! Blinken has said Russia’s new nuclear doctrine is “completely irresponsible”.

All the more reason to rush to the peace table! But yeh, it’s ClownWorld making fart noises, confusion is one of the weapons of propaganda but I’m not sure if these people are confusing us or are just confused themselves. From day one, before the SMO, I knew nothing of Blinken but he instantly seemed like a dim bulb.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 26 2024 20:18 utc | 129

Jeremy Rhymings-Lang @106: “Far too simplistic; strategic ambiguity hasn’t gone away, keep your opponent guessing as to your real intentions.”
“Strategic ambiguity” about using nukes? That’s some Dr. Strangelove level stupidity right there.
Anyway, there are only two reasons to be ambiguous about using nukes: First is that you are just bluffing about using them to begin with, in which case the ambiguity is to make your adversary think you will. Second is to trick your adversary into doing that which would trigger your use of nukes.
I wonder which is the case with Russia’s ambiguity?
I wonder which case the Empire will assume?
No, I don’t wonder at all. The Empire’s strategists absolutely will assume that the reason for Russia’s ambiguity is just because they are bluffing. The West has read Russian ambiguity as weakness all along. Why would they change?

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 26 2024 20:37 utc | 130

From day one, before the SMO, I knew nothing of Blinken but he instantly seemed like a dim bulb.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 26 2024 20:18 utc | 129
The Jew Blinken represents the anti-Russian positions of his friends in US governments other than Trump, from Clinton to Bush and Obama to Biden. He is probably the most dangerous person on the planet.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Sep 26 2024 20:37 utc | 131

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 26 2024 20:17 utc | 128
You seem to be missing that fundamental difference between physical assets that are fungible and debt money.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 26 2024 20:38 utc | 132

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 26 2024 20:15 utc | 127
“This has been my experience as well. The internet is rife with “balanced” analysts who split the difference under the fallacy that both reports are equally likely to be true when observation indicates otherwise.”
RU lang:
Это был мой опыт. Интернет кишит «сбалансированными» аналитиками, которые разделяют мнение, исходя из заблуждения, что оба отчета с равной вероятностью могут быть правдой, когда наблюдения показывают обратное.
EN lang:
re-translated: from RU to Chinese and then back to English/US:
CN: “这是我的经历。互联网上充斥着“平衡”的分析师，他们基于这种谬论而共同相信，当观察结果表明情况并非如此时，这两种报告都同样可能是真实的。”
EN-crazy back translated by GGl-Transformer from the orig. towards/backwards RF-Language:
“This has been my experience. The internet is teeming with “balanced” analysts who share the opinion, based on the fallacy that both reports are equally likely to be true, when observations show otherwise.”
Noticed something?
So let’s see what any of some newly created ‘stat-of-the-art’ AI bots intelligence are able to respond only by verbs but not of semantics, may probing a little now here ..
(post names are changing but “well known” for oldies here .. first think, than post with any logical proofed evidence !

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 20:39 utc | 133

Bad news. Estonian military leader said they intend to strike Russia from Estonian territory.
Considering it’s possible Toropets ammo depot was also done from Estonia (IF it was so, RU knows this but hasn’t implied it yet but this could have influenced nuclear doctrine change), the Blinken controlled White House might be planning another similar strike soon.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 26 2024 20:39 utc | 134

A Marxist plot, of the Groucho, Chico and Harpo variety…
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 26 2024 14:01 utc | 40
—————————————————————
Why no Zeppo? Acco is asking.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2024 20:39 utc | 135

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 26 2024 18:07 utc | 107
‘And they did it extremely well operationally (planning, maps, intelligence, etc..’
I assume we are talking about the Kursk debacle
No they didn’t it was a lousy plan, that fell apart during its first phase, due to a false premise (Russia diverting troops from the Donbas) an overly optimistic timetable, given: the composition of the forces involved, (a cobble-Kampfgruppe) a failure to anticipate defender reactions and, critically, a failure in contingent planning.
So, perhaps a good plan for a MapEx, but a poor one when initiated in the real world, where operations need to be assessed in the strategic sphere. If, of course, the outcome was speeding the acceleration of the collapse of the Donbas front and opening up the entire line of contact to potential axes of advance, then 10/10, though I doubt that was the operational intent of its planners.
On the plus side, it strengthens the scripted failure narrative, and provides an opportunity for scale modellers and wargamers to conveniently ignore the outcome of the SMO and focus instead on the gallant losers. Kursk then slowly devolves into the best reproduction of digital camouflage schemes, on vehicles that barely saw any combat, and a series of What-if scenarios.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 26 2024 18:54 utc | 114
Hard to dodge hypersonics, launched by supersonics, as they easily get inside any but the most speedy OODA loops. As for damaging sensitive airframes that could be either the missile’s organic capability or its ability to create secondary, organic, shrapnel due to the forces involved in an impact (similar to a V-2)

Posted by: Milites | Sep 26 2024 20:41 utc | 136

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 26 2024 17:46 utc | 102
with 2.200 outside of kursk it should be a 2.500-2.600 day
Doesn’t surprise, AFU tried a couple of things near kharkiv
But looking at the maps, and things I heard yesterday, there are some movements along the last 60 km of the dnieper.
Any news on kherson?

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 26 2024 20:41 utc | 137

Fireworks in Ugledar.
https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1839400536019546489

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 26 2024 20:43 utc | 138

No, I don’t wonder at all. The Empire’s strategists absolutely will assume that the reason for Russia’s ambiguity is just because they are bluffing. The West has read Russian ambiguity as weakness all along. Why would they change?
Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 26 2024 20:37 utc | 130
I’m not sure how much ambiguity there really is. The Russians have plainly stated that if they are the recipient of a mass attack by nuclear armed nation there is no way for them to determine whether it is a conventional strike or an nuclear first strike so from a strategic respective it becomes impossible for them to wait and they will respond immediately. And depending on the perceived severity the response may be nuclear. It is about as clear as something like this can get.
They are obviously not going to tell everyone what they are going to do before they do it. This isn’t a marvel cartoon or an overly elaborate way to kill Bond. I’m not if that is what you mean by ambiguity.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 26 2024 20:47 utc | 139

By October 14th, the Kurst incursion will be over because the human instruments to make the war will be absents
The principles of the conventional war say that when there’s no enough qualified people to engage in the instruments of the war, the apple falls.
It is an avalanche.
If you don’t have the soldiers able to use the technology for a war purpose, that is, destroy the enemy’s strategies, and you waste your human resources waiting for a future that contradicts your reality, you’re done.
Even the animals know when it’s better run away and keep living.
Regarding the nuclear issue:
There’s no collective interest in a thermonuclear destruction, just to remember the consequences of a global conflict.
Nor the RF will use that kind of Arms of Mass Destruction, neither the USA will do. Notwithstanding the politicians, the MSM, and the bloggers, the military who really got the finger on the key are strictly rational.

Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 20:53 utc | 140

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 26 2024 20:39 utc | 134
“Considering it’s possible Toropets ammo depot was also done from Estonia (IF it was so, RU knows this but hasn’t implied it yet but this could have influenced nuclear doctrine change), the Blinken controlled White House might be planning another similar strike soon.”
True. Your “IF” above is still a small of ‘IF likes’ one hereto, published til today.
No one wants to ‘hear’ about (either RU or US Intel guys) – same as on any conspiracies before – more or less validated eg. on 9/11 CIA inHouse attacks. , will remain up to any future leaks, if so so far.
Let’s wait on Ms.Nuland, Ms.Killary, Mr.Blinken, Mr.Sullivan, etc how long those puppets can stand witout any further assassin attempts reported on CNN, CNBC, Fox etc .. !

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 21:03 utc | 141

The West is in the throes of at least one, potentially two, crushing defeats at the moment, and so the question arises: will the right lessons be learned? Can the right lessons be learned? And how do we identify these lessons anyway?
https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/no-end-of-a-lesson
Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 26 2024 16:27 utc | 83
——————————————————–
The US Army took its lessons from the war in Vietnam and showed their efficacy during Operation Desert Storm.
To its credit, it was the first US military branch to desegregate (1947) and was most successful doing so. DEI could take a lesson from them (Ha). The US Navy was the last.
That said, all the senior Pentagon staff are not pushing nuclear war. First I checked into this was for a paper on SALT II I wrote in 1972 (Carnegie Endowment for Peace as sponsor). I have completely given up on the subject but remember the Pentagon attitude at the time. The Russians feel the same way.
Performing for the various politicians and infighting for funding is part of the job.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2024 21:03 utc | 142

Saudi companies might ramp oil production up.

Posted by: Moonly Lady | Sep 26 2024 21:05 utc | 143

There’s a fact, the fucking reality: Ucrania has lost 1,000,000 humans in the military conflict. Kia or Mia, there are not many much people to waste in a lost conflict.
And. What will happen when the 6,000, 000 Ucranian refugees (joke), return to their neighbors?
Trump is an idiot, but he does not loose his mind when he is telling the Americans that the Ucranian war is a mess without future.

Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 21:16 utc | 144

It is amazing that Ukrainians are still able to counterattack.

Posted by: vargas | Sep 26 2024 21:19 utc | 145

It is amazing that Ukrainians are still able to counterattack.
Posted by: vargas | Sep 26 2024 21:19 utc | 146
Whats even more amazing is how they keep being beaten back by unmotivated conscripts with shovels!

Posted by: HERMIUS | Sep 26 2024 21:24 utc | 146

8 Billion Biden Bucks today.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Sep 26 2024 21:24 utc | 147

Posted by: vargas | Sep 26 2024 21:19 utc | 146
“It is amazing that Ukrainians are still able to counterattack.”
Yeah – that’s really impressive. Also impressive is your ‘factual referrings” on that posting with some current Links to proof this (like others here have done).
Good work so far from “Your” side, thanks a lot – to be the today’s best of some Intel-created trials of a so-called ‘AI bots’.

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 21:29 utc | 148

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Sep 26 2024 21:24 utc | 148
Tsk, tsk, tsk, poor American taxpayer, getting fleeced left and right, large, demanding, obnoxious, rotten sponges in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Sep 26 2024 21:34 utc | 149

Vladimir Putin covers all attempts by Kyiv and the West to escalate the situation in the SMO zone with a new doctrine.
Personally, I was waiting for a new doctrine for the use of nuclear weapons by Russia in the context of new world realities. I was waiting for a document that would return the West and Kyiv to a new understanding of Vladimir Putin’s proposals of December 2021.
These proposals were called “Putin’s ultimatum” in the West, but in fact, a real path to the creation of a new world security system was indicated. And only the SMO, only Russia’s desire to protect itself and its allies, even using nuclear weapons (according to the new doctrine), can stop the desire of NATO countries to colonize the entire world.
So, to the doctrine. To put it into effect, no changes to Russian legislation are required. That is, it becomes legitimate instantly.
The list of states and unions against which nuclear deterrence is carried out is expanding. For example, against non-nuclear countries attacking us, supported by nuclear states. Let’s say that now we can use our nuclear weapons against Ukraine, which does not have nuclear weapons, and which is supported by nuclear England and America, which is attacking Russia.
And we take responsibility for the defense — with the use of our nuclear weapons — of Belarus, if it is attacked by a non-nuclear country supported by nuclear powers. That is, Ukraine attacks Belarus — we will hit it with nuclear weapons.
Yes, now if a non-nuclear country attacks us — with the support of a nuclear power — then it seems that a nuclear power that is not directly at war is also considered an aggressor and we will also hit it with nuclear weapons. That is, if Ukraine, supported by England, attacks us, we can hit England — also using nuclear weapons.
The new doctrine has expanded the list of threats to which we will respond with the use of nuclear weapons: now any flight in our direction by foreign not only strategic, but even tactical aircraft will entail our response with the use of nuclear weapons.
And attention!!! A critical threat to Russia, even with non-nuclear weapons, will entail our nuclear response. For example, Ukraine begins to use its (not even Western) long-range missiles or UAVs against our critical defense facilities (missile attack warning stations) – this will cause our response with the use of nuclear weapons.
And at the same time, we, Russia, continue to declare our responsibility for the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and the preservation of peace on Earth. Nevertheless, as I personally believe, if Russia has nuclear weapons, they should not just lie in arsenals – they should play a role in ensuring the security of our Motherland and eliminating those threats that arise in our quest for freedom and independence of Russia.
– Alexander Sladkov
Maybe, its time to leave the UK, US and France for some other country…?

Posted by: ostro | Sep 26 2024 21:34 utc | 150

Dear Vargas:
You are a bot. A honeypot designed with the purpose of developing your false human skills.
Why I know that you are a bot?
Because you don’t continue the conversation. You repeat the same pattern notwithstanding some interesting comments from real humans.
How do I know the difference between a bot and a human?
The human is emotional, which is a kind of intelligence beyond any bot.
You not past the test of self consciousness.
Tell your programmers that any of us gonna make you a human.
Stop make perfiles.

Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 21:46 utc | 151

In reply to: DunGroanin | Sep 26 2024 16:31 utc | 86
I always quite like your posts and assume you have something worthwhile to say even though I don’t really understand the full import of what it is.
This evening I started on a bottle of cognac that really I should have saved for the weekend and this time every word of #86 makes perfect sense. May I offer a slightly inebriated thanks and perhaps buy you a little something at the bar?

Posted by: Another Thing | Sep 26 2024 21:46 utc | 152

Posted by: ostro | Sep 26 2024 21:34 utc | 151
Russia will never use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, as there is no target it would need to hit. It can conventionally push out AFU remnants from ruined towns and cities, and soon in the open in the fields west of Ugledar/south of Kurakhove. There isn’t anything in Ukraine that would benefit in anyway from nuclear weapons. Even the aircraft bunkers in Starokonstantinov and Ivano-Frankivsk air bases were destroyed conventionally.
Martyanov some weeks ago presented this case, presenting the difference between tactical and strategic nukes. ‘Tactical’ and ‘strategic’ has nothing to do with yield, it only has to do with objective. Say for instance you want to use a nuke to destroy a battalion strong point/defensive position, then it’s tactical, if you want to hit industries or air bases, then it’s probably strategic.
The only worthwhile targets would probably be Nato bases in Poland, Germany and Britain, and newly included Finland and Sweden. But even those might not need nukes, because conventional systems are today so powerful that they have the power of small nukes through kinetic energy. Like small asteroids hitting Earth.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 26 2024 21:47 utc | 153

Posted by: ossi | Sep 26 2024 14:15 utc | 47
One, and probably a correct way to look at it is that instead of gold and commodities rising, the dollar and euro are falling against gold and commodities.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 26 2024 14:38 utc | 53
—————————————————–
Trump is on top of this. Not sure it is getting any traction, not a popular MSM topic.
I still have the 4 million Reichsmark note my grandmother gave me, good for a slice of bread.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2024 21:48 utc | 154

Posted by: ostro | Sep 26 2024 21:34 utc | 151
..The new doctrine has expanded the list of threats to which we will respond with the use of nuclear weapons: now any flight in our direction by foreign not only strategic, but even tactical aircraft will entail our response with the use of nuclear weapons. ..
Dear ‘ostro’ – who do you identify with – the Russian people + the Ukranian remaining fleeing people (just speaking Russian), or what else people You mean have to flee towards another 2 Mio registered still today only in Germany ?
Pls learn to count 1+1=2, asap. Then You’ll check on your Berlin Asyl Offices that there are currently a more UKR persons knocking at door as You have ever estimated/wished.
How to ‘you’ personally would have handled that, if even an ‘unexpected nuclear strike’ would be launched by RF against Your lovely US-secured Ramstein air base (near Wiebaden City) and/or Berlin’s German parliament ..?

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 21:57 utc | 155

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 21:29 utc | 149
I’ve been silently following this blog for the last few months, and after a while you get a feel for which posts to skip based on the poster name, and yours are right up there near the top. For reasons of apparent insanity. Even the idiot USA/UK/Ukraine shills are sometimes worth reading for entertainment value, simply to understand the context when they get ripped to shreds later in the thread, but credit where credit’s due, I actually understood what you were going on about and agreed with it before realizing who wrote it.
On that basis, I apologise for skipping many of your posts, and will attempt to try to make more sense of them in future.
Although if I could offer some humble advice, keeping the posts short, on one subject, and to the point, works far better for me than some of your more extended and convoluted posts.

Posted by: Barton Bendish | Sep 26 2024 22:00 utc | 156

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 26 2024 18:07 utc | 108
That was just beautiful. Impressive.
Posted by: Avtonom | Sep 26 2024 18:13 utc | 109
———————————————————-
My kind of sarcasm and even style, on a good day and only for a most deserving target, love it.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2024 22:04 utc | 157

Russians are concentrating hard on getting as many F16s as possible, it’s very much a concentrated search and destroy operation, not letting them get off the ground. You can imagine the secrecy around these these things, they are not even flying them in they are moving them in dissembled, in commercial trucks at night.
These successful strikes are only possible if the Russians have people on the inside helping them, the F16s are strategic in the sense that the program is intentionally escalatory, that’s why the USA sent them, to up the ante. People saying they won’t change anything, can’t prevent Ukraine’s decline, miss the point.
By keeping them out of the air the Russians are hitting NATO tactically and strategically, embarrassing them and stalemating them, that people inside Ukraine and maybe NATO are helping the Russians is also strategic and deescalatory, there are forces wanting to end this on both sides.
Are they buying time for Trump? I can’t imagine anyone serious hasn’t figured out that what Trump says is worthless. Trump talks big but he was the most lazy, accommodating, malleable President in US history, you just have to look at his first term, he twisted himself into a pretzel proving himself an invertebrate.
De-escalation is good in and of itself, so whatever the concentration on keeping the F16s from getting airborne is about the Russians are on top of it. Russia, China, and Iran are doing everything possible to prevent WW3 and all they get is shit for it.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 26 2024 22:13 utc | 158

Posted by: Barton Bendish | Sep 26 2024 22:00 utc | 157
Thanks for your ‘real time tracking’ – I’ll try to respect that answer to me as one of your of your opinions/possibilities.
So, I today just ‘re-fire’ that your same like comment now having fired a back ball to you (solely here on MaA you’ve been with your name til now).
Welcome in club of Rome – sorry in Club of AI-bots!
An advice: Think a little befor insulting anyone here w2ithout havinf factual arguments On-Topic of this Moa thread.
Captured?

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 22:19 utc | 159

We have in our conscience the key to be right or to be son of a Bitch.
In our heart, to be selfish and malicious, or to be generous and forgive the ridiculous illusions
The humans must be tempered, tranquil, pacient, do what we know that we must do: our duty because it’s correct.
What is correct?
Give no pain, and let the Egos feel their amusing.

Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 22:23 utc | 160

once more hopefully without mis-spellings/mis-thinking:
Posted by: Barton Bendish | Sep 26 2024 22:00 utc | 157
Thanks for your ‘real time tracking’ – I’ll try to respect that answer to me as one of your of your opinions/possibilities.
So, I today just ‘re-fire’ that your same like comment now having fired a back ball to you (solely here on MaA you’ve been with your name til now).
Welcome in club of Rome – sorry in Club of AI-bots!
An advice: Think a little before insulting anyone here without having factual arguments On-Topic of this MoA thread.
Captured?

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 26 2024 22:23 utc | 161

Russians meet NATO air force generals:
My Name Is Nobody

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 26 2024 22:28 utc | 162

NEW YORK, September 27. /TASS/. US Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump said he would meet with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky in New York on Friday, September 27.
“As you know, President Zelensky has asked to meet with me and I will be meeting with him tomorrow around 9:45 in Trump Tower,” Trump told reporters. “And it’s a shame what’s happening in Ukraine, so many deaths, so much destruction, it’s a horrible thing.”
“And one of the things that are very bothersome to me is the fact that Europe is paying only a small fraction of the money that the United States of America is paying, and we have an ocean between Russia and ourselves. They don’t,” he added, commenting on the West’s support for the Kiev government.
Earlier, Trump published Zelensky’s letter with a call to meet on his Truth Social network.

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 26 2024 22:56 utc | 163

All your bad, will be with you.
Be moral.
All this bad genocides, take their moral.
If the human beings are not moral, we are, because from our conscience, down.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AEszja9BDYo

Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 22:58 utc | 164

with 2.200 outside of kursk it should be a 2.500-2.600 day
Posted by: Newbie | Sep 26 2024 20:41 utc | 137
Numbers are out! 2.680
So kursk is getting heavier with 480!
To put this in perspective, KUrsk is getting as expensive for the AFU as the all SMO theater until mid 2023.
And the rest is at 4x+ ratio…
And now with less weapons and a dwindling recruitment pool… first gradually, then suddenly

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 26 2024 23:03 utc | 165

@ Posted by: Another Thing | Sep 26 2024 21:46 utc | 153
“This evening I started on a bottle of cognac that really I should have saved for the weekend and this time every word of #86 makes perfect sense. May I offer a slightly inebriated thanks and perhaps buy you a little something at the bar? “
Thank you you old boy. I came back to check if anyone had registered it. You win.
Careful how you go I have held my tongue… some recent threads. Maybe reign it in a bit before too late?
I see you because you are also unique,like others, but remember – decorum old chap decorum and etiquette and please try not to wind our regulars up?
You ain’t to old to be told I hope. I’m 61 and nearly there, autumn is here and will happily take some of your kindly offered last of the summer wine 😉 👌

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 26 2024 23:13 utc | 166

By October 14th, the Kurst incursion will be over because the human instruments to make the war will be absents
Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 20:53 utc | 140
People here have been continuously wrong about the timeline and predictions. People here were saying the Ukrainian troops would be kicked out of Kursk in 48-72 hours, then others said 2 or 3 weeks, then a month, etc. October 14 will come and go and Ukrainian troops will still be there. Will you own up to your wrong prediction then?

Posted by: MiniMO | Sep 26 2024 23:21 utc | 167

unimperator | Sep 26 2024 21:47 utc | 154

…conventional systems are today so powerful that they have the power of small nukes through kinetic energy. Like small asteroids hitting Earth.

I forget the source, but someone speculated recently that the Avangand hypersonic glide vehicle and/or ICBMs could be used to deliver large amounts (several tons) of conventional explosives. When combined with the warhead/HGV’s kinetic energy such a weapon’s destructive power would sit somewhere between a large glide bomb and the lowest setting of a ‘dial-a-yield’ tactical nuke. Possible targets include the Dnepr bridges or whatever hole the likes on Budanov are hiding in.
Russia has no shortage of delivery vehicles, with a number of RT-2PM Topol ICBMs reaching the end of their service life and slated for use as small satellite launchers. With the appropriate terminal guidance (perhaps taken from the Iskander, although Avangand would require something more exotic), pinpoint accuracy should be possible.
The obvious drawback, as with the new low-yield warhead for the US Trident SLBM, is that it’s impossible to tell what warhead has been fitted until it detonates. The launches (and probably the deployment of the mobile launchers) would be detected by US spy satellites, and be indistinguishable from a nuclear strike. However if Russia decides to provide a robust response to NATO escalation without crossing the nuclear threshold, it could test such a weapon to demonstrate the capability and safely assume that launches toward targets in Ukraine would not precipitate a nuclear ‘launch-on-warning’ from NATO.

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Sep 26 2024 23:26 utc | 168

I have no interest to be right, but around the 14th October the math is a thing. If you can’t put the people behind the soldiers, you are done.

Posted by: Joel | Sep 27 2024 0:06 utc | 169

Posted by: Joel | Sep 26 2024 22:23 utc | 161
“.. Give no pain, and let the Egos feel their amusing ..”
Yes anyway + but No, pls know: ‘..let the Egos feel their amusing..” is validated til today only for some horse-teeth like laughing Ms. K.Harris’ supporters following ..
So then, You may fool(low) them without critics up to the “end in the Mid-November”.
Wait – who’s betting better in the so-called non-by-FBI controlled states ..
Putin seems being relaxed. Newly adapted ‘doctrine’ works a little towards his favor on targeting EU centers (Ramstein and Norway /Finns beside targets) – or possibly not so ‘severe’, just today?
Wake-up guys + women.
Find out now – dear AI troll – where have to go when a big blast having hit You or someone in Your virtual earth’s neighbourhood (ever heard of Lebanon?).

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 0:10 utc | 170

I still have the 4 million Reichsmark note my grandmother gave me, good for a slice of bread.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2024 21:48 utc | 155
Neat reminder of that dire period of German misery – imho probably the motivation for more recent German Ordo-Liberalism and fear of inflation etc most recently during the financial crisis of 2007-2010 Herr Prof Sinn etc and the dumping of debt on Spain Ireland Italy and especially Greece.
As a European, I’m very disappointed with German leadership – just watched Baerbock at the UN … and of course NS wounding of German industry to benefit Uncle Sam etc
On the Aurelien piece – well worth reading to the end …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 27 2024 0:12 utc | 171

All the Americans know that must be certain issues about the importance things.
Dont touch my existence, because I will touch yours

Posted by: Joel | Sep 27 2024 0:15 utc | 172

@ Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2024 21:03 utc | 142
well as a former squid I have to say the Navy of all the services is the most socially regressive / rigidly hierarchical, so no surprise they were the last to integrate; even as late as the 1980’s the mess specialist and ship servicemen ratings were overly black and Filipino — a vestige of the old segregated “steward’s branch”. Officers in the Army will have chow with the enlisteds – Navy O’s generally stick to their “wardroom”.
I think it goes back to the days of the RN, where the midshipmen and officers literally lived in mortal fear of the press-ganged crew in the forecastle. The whole purpose of the “Marines” was as security for the O’s.

Posted by: Adriatic Hillbilly | Sep 27 2024 0:17 utc | 173

Babylon 5 foresaw the practicality of kinetic weapons.
Centauri Use Mass Drivers Against the Narn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6t53kUAmo

Posted by: Babel-17 | Sep 27 2024 0:17 utc | 174

And, it’s very clear that 143,000,000 people live Russia like God.
There are people on belgorobe who are dying, come to make a solution.
If not, live your life.

Posted by: Joel | Sep 27 2024 0:25 utc | 175

Good news! Blinken has said Russia’s new nuclear doctrine is “completely irresponsible”.
Posted by: Passerby | Sep 26 2024 19:29 utc | 119
Eh, I’d rather have a Dacia Sandero:
https://www.google.com/search?q=top.gear+good+news+dacia+sandero&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6619c3bc,vid:A7-7Ps8EWnk,st:0

Posted by: drsmith | Sep 27 2024 0:41 utc | 176

@FormerlyWisco | Fri, 27 Sep 2024 00:23:00 GMT | 176

Also, there are three oceans between Russia and the US, not one.

No, there’s only a strait (Bering) between Russia and Alaska, which last I checked was part of the US.

Posted by: James M. | Sep 27 2024 0:45 utc | 177

Russia seems to have significant problems in the state of technology, the outlook of its people, the state of it’s economy and trade and some issues with corruption (no doubt the same could be said for much of the west) – that is where it’s greatest challenge lies.
Posted by: jared | Sep 26 2024 17:48 utc | 103
Yeah, right! Where are you seeing this?

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 0:51 utc | 178

Interlude: Time for a song … a ballad
Raglan Road – Luke Kelly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIqr1Ge8Z5w 5mins

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 27 2024 0:53 utc | 179

I suppose that gold is off topic, and yet, it is on topic, because humans will kill for just about anything they think of value, as we are seeing today, as the Empire uses Ukraine (to attempt) to destroy Russia to get control of its resources.
And yet…is gold all that necessary? The US has held Germany’s gold for 75 years, but somehow Germany has carried on without it.
Cut off Russian gas, on the other hand, and they are on their way out.
You think your owners don’t know what is actually valuable, while they sell gold coins to those who picture the entire system collapsing, except for them, as they go to functioning grocery stores and gas stations with their precious metal. The whole market system will still function, doncha know, with the supply chains and full shelves and such, but only for the gold holders.
Your owners know what’s actually valuable, and they will kill to get it.
The US did have a gold standard in the 1800s. They also had a crash every 20 years, usually lasting for years, eventually causing dispossessed farmers and fired workers to demand an end to the gold standard. Mankind shall not be crucified on a cross of gold and all.
You cannot have a finite money supply in a capitalist system. Capitalism requires ever expanding profits, or it collapses. You can’t have ever expanding profits when your money system is limited, which is why there never was an actual gold standard. Those who had the gold lent out paper notes, which kept the circus going until the notes were called in, and then the circus stopped.
The discovery of gold in Alaska took the pressure off for a while, but eventually the US went to the Federal Reserve, which had the announced purpose of keeping things on keel, and keeping workers employed.
Ha! How’d that work out?
At this point, in the 21st century, the Federal Reserve just acts as a giant slush fund to keep financial capital in chips, so that the gambling will not stop. They dropped the part about full employment after the 2008 crash, as if anyone noticed.
Now that it is obvious that the federal reserve pumping trillions to the bankers is causing inflation, Americans of today want to go back to what Americans of the past rejected-the gold standard. So, there wasn’t enough gold to keep old time capitalism going, but somehow it will keep today’s casino capitalism flourishing. How? Magic!
Good plan, dudes. That’ll totally work out for us.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Sep 27 2024 1:05 utc | 180

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 0:51 utc | 180
“Russia seems to have significant problems in the state of technology, the outlook of its people, the state of it’s economy and trade and some issues with corruption ..”
Yes – You have obviously a lot of problems within Your current thinking of “significant problems in the state of technology” and .. and .. ‘some issues with corruption’ – within RF.
Dear ‘still not-finally-cooked Potato’, You should be cooked smoothly until your final stage of a good believable taste.
Why that?:
If Russia still today would have any “significant problems in the state of technology, etc” & of its economy + of its MIL supplies, then Russia will go down whitin 2 years, as You wish.
Believe that by facts? No.
Also I do not believe that. But it’s possible that a nuclear blast will visit Your US-like neighbours nearby at home, if you’re being in EUROPE on that location – so pls:
Don’t think about those ever possible ‘events’ (near Wiebaden/Germany) if being in Florida or California !
In US-States – like Google/Meta states, you are best safe and secured by Pentagon’s MIL 1st. staff!
So, You are not captured in tresor like underground facilities. Be happßy – 5 years behind doors. No fresh milk and vegetables.
Isn’t it a good future ..?

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 1:23 utc | 181

And yet…is gold all that necessary? The US has held Germany’s gold for 75 years, but somehow Germany has carried on without it.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Sep 27 2024 1:05 utc | 182
The easy way to check is compare economies before and after the introduction of the petro-dollar. Compare general prosperity before and after the petro-dollar.
Why does US fight wars for control of oil, why does America destroy countries that try to go off the petro-dollar.
Throughout history, inflation has been non existent of very low. Metal coins were used for trade as the value was in the metal. Gold, silver, copper.
Today’s Australian gold coins, $1 and $2 are aluminium bronze, now a relatively low value metal so the metal value is cents in the dollar compared to the coin value.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 27 2024 1:24 utc | 182

Sorry Potato @180
That was addressed to
Posted by: jared | Sep 26 2024 17:48 utc | 103
Excuse me.

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 1:33 utc | 183

You cannot have a finite money supply in a capitalist system. Capitalism requires ever expanding profits, or it collapses.
So, there wasn’t enough gold to keep old time capitalism going,
Posted by: wagelaborer | Sep 27 2024 1:05 utc | 182
And that is the problem with a capitalist system. Real value is defined by real, physical assets, which are finite. Historically value was abstracted for purposes of commerce to be represented by precious metals like gold and silver, but could also consist of goats and chickens. Interest distorts the system and that is why Jesus, according to the scriptures, attacked the money lenders.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 1:34 utc | 184

@FormerlyWisco | Fri, 27 Sep 2024 01:08:00 GMT | 183

It is part of both the Arctic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean.

Ohh pedantic alert. But if you want to be really technical it’s part of the Bering and the Chukchi seas, which flow into the Pacific and Arctic oceans respectively. There are differences between straits, seas, and oceans. Or one could just say the Earth is covered by one giant body of water given arbitrary names at certain points.

Posted by: James M. | Sep 27 2024 1:38 utc | 185

@wagelaborer | Fri, 27 Sep 2024 01:05:00 GMT | 182

The US did have a gold standard in the 1800s.

No, the US, like most of the world, had a bimetallic standard. They switched between gold and silver. And yes, there were crashes every few years.

Posted by: James M. | Sep 27 2024 1:44 utc | 186

The “Gold” will be all at the latest “then”, as a ‘valid currency’ that would be used some decades later after & of any ‘worldwide phyical crash’.
So that’s future in our normally structured minds, but is not in sense of “some other” diabolical like ‘humans’, that come from US-America plus from Israel’s Zionists.
Keep resistance-with/without physical affecting weapons – like a Sniper eg. is best equipped with, else send a … ?

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 1:46 utc | 187

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 27 2024 1:24 utc | 185
Seigniorage has been a staple of governments forever, but even if it wasn’t can you imagine if the metal in a coin was worth more the face value? People would take them out of circulation and melt them down for scrap sold at a profit. One of the dangers of inflation I suppose.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 27 2024 1:47 utc | 188

Sorry Potato @180
That was addressed to
Posted by: jared | Sep 26 2024 17:48 utc | 103
Excuse me.
Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 1:33 utc | 186
That’s okay. If you were as annoyed by that post as I was, I can imagine you reacting before parsing the details.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 2:00 utc | 189

Posted by: James M. | Sep 27 2024 1:38 utc | 188
I dare say you are being the pedantic one here.
Posted by: FormerlyWisco | Sep 27 2024 1:59 utc | 193
———————————————————
Stop. These are not the funny pages.
Following Archie Bunker, ‘Stifle thyself! Think of Kenny Rogers, ‘The Gambler.’

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 27 2024 2:04 utc | 190

Posted by: FormerlyWisco | Sep 27 2024 1:49 utc | 192
“.. Gold dominates the MoA discussions on all threads today. ..”
Another AI-like-to-be a ‘troll’?
Hey – wake up now !
Gold is a ‘power’ of treasury and a $-Replacement next days whatever it is else and ever will be .. OK?
So I’m sampling argues contra that fact regarding history since 3.000 ante Christ.
Even Nuland+Killary+Blinken would move-out of its Pentagon bunkers, they have to pay with “GOLD”, if there is anything to buy.
But Gold is – after the Bible’s “Big Flood” – even in the sluts occupied Devil Baghdat Center the best means to pay, rather with a cup of rice.
Nuland/Killary + Zionist leader MethanYahoo – go ahead towards your future – like ‘Hitler did.

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 2:11 utc | 191

”
Posted by: wagelaborer | Sep 27 2024 1:05 utc | 182
You cannot have a finite money supply in a capitalist system. Capitalism requires ever expanding profits, or it collapses.
”
It’s not just a capitalist system. It is the nature of debt money. In our system money is pulled into existence by taking on debt. That money doesn’t exist until the loan is signed. Then through the magic of the fractional reserve system it is created as an entry in an electronic ledger. If that was all that would be the end of it. In theory the borrower could find money in circulation to pay back all of his loan. The problem is that interest on the loan isn’t part of any disbursements so that at no time is there enough money to pay back the aggregate debt. Since there is always more outstanding debt than money it must grow continually to avoid collapse. I’m not sure if it is a necessary feature of capitalism, but it certainly is inherent in the federal reserve system.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 27 2024 2:17 utc | 192

Seems like a bunch of newbie barflys not staying on topic and talking out their ass about things they know nothing about.
Capitalism is a mythological term that has never existed but we do have private and public finance instantiations that are are war today.
Spew textual white noise about Ukraine please and thanks. Otherwise you look really stupid.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27 2024 2:23 utc | 193

Capitalism is a mythological term that has never existed but we do have private and public finance instantiations that are are war today.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27 2024 2:23 utc | 201
With all due respect…and I mean it…the term “capitalism” has existed and still exists. How do you account for it? Or would you call it private finance?

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 2:39 utc | 194

Thanks for @194 accepting my excuse.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 1:34 utc | 187
“And that is the problem with a capitalist system. Real value is defined by real, physical assets, which are finite. Historically value was abstracted for purposes of commerce to be represented by precious metals like gold and silver, but could also consist of goats and chickens. Interest distorts the system and that is why Jesus, according to the scriptures, attacked the money lenders.”
Yes, in the temple – But what’s remaining today as “The Temple in Jerus..”.
Same in UKR – what’s remaining in Kiew still today?
:: Nothing more any like of the 100’s year old history of the Orthodox Christians, newly kept by a “Nazi LAW” and following attacks on the church?
No – Zionists – like Piano-Mr.Z. puppet masters have to/will be elimanred – asap anyway! – or not?

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 2:42 utc | 195

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27 2024 2:47 utc | 196

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 2:39 utc | 202
Spew textual white noise about Ukraine please and thanks. Otherwise you look really stupid.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27 2024 2:23 utc | 201
——————————————————
I second the motion.
There is another thread to cover Milton Friedman related thinking. Please, honor our host -b with topic compliance.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 27 2024 2:50 utc | 197

Posted by: FormerlyWisco | Sep 27 2024 2:23 utc | 200
“I wish you would post things that normal people could decipher. I get snippets of your intelligence now and then. But mostly just chaos. Like an AI bot.”
Thank you a lot on “Yours” missing facts for reply & your advice hereto – I’ll try now to improve my AI-skills whenever possible hour-by-hour, every day as “You” may hopefully “feel” it tomorrow.
Anything listened as a troll about newest “MSM” news /CNN,CNBC,Fox,AlJazeera,RT,DW,BBC etc acc.to and relying On-Topic UKRANIAN thread here ..?
Have you ..? If not, pls leave this thread asap. due to Non-Topic issues commented – thanks a lot.

Posted by: spare_truth_01 | Sep 27 2024 2:55 utc | 198

@ Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 2:39 utc | 202 with the follow up question that I will now start working on in the current Open Thread…go there to read in a few minutes and stop polluting this thread, please.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27 2024 2:47 utc | 204
Well, I did not mean to pollute this thread…was simply commenting on a post in this thread that would not have been properly contextualized in another thread. I will read your post in the Open Thread, but I think your “thread” argument in this case is a bit pedantic, even if strictly correct.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Sep 27 2024 3:00 utc | 199

A Marxist plot, of the Groucho, Chico and Harpo variety…
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 26 2024 14:01 utc | 40
What specifically did Harpo say about it?

Posted by: Paranaense | Sep 27 2024 3:10 utc | 200

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