Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 15, 2024
The MoA Week In Review – OT 2024-219

Ukraine:

War with Russia:

Election:

Palestine:


Other issues:


Empire:

Boeing:

China:

Use as open (not related to the wars in Ukraine and Palestine) thread …

Comments

Pepe Escobar’s latest piece at SCF: https://strategic-culture.su/news/2024/09/14/brics-rise-of-china-and-how-hegemon-buried-concept-security/

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 15 2024 13:17 utc | 1

Looks like some “leaders” are finally preparing their citizens for the war they are intent on bringing home.
https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1835290005398229452
Why do people need shelters if Ukraine is winning and Putin is bluffing?
“Experts recommend preparing basement rooms and seeking shelter there.
They are not banking on large bunkers for everyone.”

Posted by: Mary | Sep 15 2024 13:20 utc | 2

“Experts recommend preparing basement rooms and seeking shelter there.
They are not banking on large bunkers for everyone.”
Posted by: Mary | Sep 15 2024 13:20 utc | 2
———————————————————
What happened to ‘get under your desk and put your hands over your head’? About as effective.

Posted by: Honzo | Sep 15 2024 14:20 utc | 3

Vou tentar trazer a discussão sobre trotskismo aqui para este tópico, para não infectar o tópico sobre Ucrânia.
Peço que as pessoas q entrarem neste debate evitem i6nsultos e se atenham à argumentos.

Posted by: Soviético | Sep 15 2024 14:27 utc | 4

Too scents,
Small world – I went to school about 150km due east in the early 1970s.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 15 2024 14:34 utc | 5

What happened to ‘get under your desk and put your hands over your head’? About as effective.

But doesn’t get that much attention and clicks for the journos who just love to deal out the fear factor.

Posted by: persiflo | Sep 15 2024 14:35 utc | 6

“What happened to ‘get under your desk and put your hands over your head’? About as effective.
Posted by: Honzo | Sep 15 2024 14:20 utc | 3”
Inciting fear while reassuring the natives that the gov cares & won’t let it go nuclear? Or, like covid-jab pericarditis, it will only be “mild” nuclear & a minor inconvenience at most. Also, your hiding in basement will protect your neighbor.

Posted by: Mary | Sep 15 2024 14:49 utc | 7

A eterna polemica entre teotskystas e stalinistas não me interessa.
Minha preocupação se dá em torno das postagens que colocam pedaços de lixo, como Starmer e o pequeno Trodeau, sob a denominação de trotskystas ou ultra-esquerdistas (se eles são gays ou não, não importa).
Isto é profundamente desonesto e vai na mesma linha dos q dizem que a revolução da 1917 foi uma “revolução colorida” tramada pelos “khazarianos”.
Gostaria que alguém que afirma tais estultícias provasse q algum destes palhaços realmente foi trotskista ou ultra-esquerdista alguma vez na vida.
Esperando argumentações e PROVAS neste sentido.

Posted by: Soviético | Sep 15 2024 15:10 utc | 8

From what I’ve read, the “debate” involving Harris and Trump was more of an ambush (by ABC personnel), albeit one that the Trump team presumably anticipated.

Posted by: David Levin | Sep 15 2024 15:26 utc | 9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZlN2oCPhdY
Jimmy Dore with Keaton and Russell from Due Dissidence discuss an episode of a show called Two Nice Jewish Boys.
This has undoubtedly been posted here at some point, but since this is the week in review, I thought I’d share it again. Aaron Mate and Max Blumenthal also had an episode of The Grayzone where they talked about it. Revolting.

Posted by: KMRIA | Sep 15 2024 15:55 utc | 10

thanks so much b!!!
lots of titillating titles that i am drawn to… thanks to the posters at moa and remain gracious and kind to others…

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2024 16:05 utc | 11

@ David Levin | Sep 15 2024 15:26 utc | 9
craig murray said essentially the same thing!
That Harris/Trump Debate

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2024 16:08 utc | 12

Re: Sorry Mr. Sullivan, But You Just Got China So Wrong.
AmeriKKKa reminds me of a song from an old Yankee musical show:

“Who was it who led the charge
That took us straight to the rear?
Why it was Jubilation T Cornpone
Ol’ toot your own horn pone..”
Or Connie Francis’ Hollywood.
“Who’s that farmer
Who thinks he’s a charmer?
It’s Hollywood!”

I’d bet the Chinese take bets on whether the next visiting Yankee ‘diplomat’ will say something more pompous, or less pompous, than the previous one?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 15 2024 16:21 utc | 13

From what I’ve read, the “debate” involving Harris and Trump was more of an ambush (by ABC personnel), albeit one that the Trump team presumably anticipated.
Posted by: David Levin | Sep 15 2024 15:26 utc | 9
I watched a bit of it and yeah, it was yet another three on one attack, which Trump should be very used to at this point.
However, he did look a little off and he could have still won had he just focused on the two big issues: war and economic suffering in the west. Instead, he went off on immigrants eating house pets and Dems murdering newborns.
As Trump might say: Sad.
It was really ashame because he was the only one on stage that seriously raised the threat of nuclear holocaust.
If the electoral system did not require one to be a billionaire in order to run a real campaign, anyone could win the presidency in a landslide simply running an anti war anti billionaire campaign.
Millions are dying to meet that candidate.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 16:55 utc | 14

You missed this one:
78 year old Wolfgang Streeck on politics in Germany and “The West.”
“….Zeit: If that is the case, why don’t you support the AfD and Björn Höcke [one of the party’s key leaders]?
“Streeck: Oh God. I don’t know a single consistent thought from Höcke and his followers. It’s all just cynical symbolic provocations. But even if he were somehow a conservative, I wouldn’t have anything to do with him. Conservatives on the right believe in a natural hierarchy, a world in which the better ones are there to tell the less good ones what to do. But I am an unconverted egalitarian: all people are of equal value. Furthermore, right-wing conservatives believe that there can be no peace in this world: there are Schmittian existential enemies with whom we can only live if we don’t let them live. The latter has become a central theme of the American neocons and the European NATO conservatives, including our foreign minister….”
https://www.defenddemocracy.press/wolfgang-streeck-sahra-wagenknecht-is-the-only-one-asking-the-right-questions-and-offering-the-right-answers/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 15 2024 16:59 utc | 15

78 year old Wolfgang Streeck on politics in Germany and “The West.”
Posted by: bevin | Sep 15 2024 16:59 utc | 15

The video is here ==> WOLFGANG STREECK-why I support SARAH WAGENKNECHT’S PARTY ==> https://youtu.be/MbtMfZFxsjs

Posted by: too scents | Sep 15 2024 17:05 utc | 16

I’ll again post the info I was provided by Dr. Hudson that he and Rick Wolff will be the featured guests on Nima’s channel on a weekly basis, which IMO is fantastic as that duo provides the best analysis going. The most recent transcript and link to the podcast is here, “U.S. Foreign Policy and Economic Shifts: Trump vs. Harris Debate Analysis”, and the episode previous to that is here, “Debunking U.S. Bankruptcy Myths”.
Pepe Escobar’s pair of essays published on the 13th can be found here, “A Pepe Escobar Duet: Two Complementary Essays”. Also of interest is Alastair Crooke’s essay about the Durov Saga, “Enabling a “Brutus” to slay the Elon Musk “Caesar””, and the challenge being made to freedom of speech by the NeeoconNazis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 15 2024 17:12 utc | 17

This thread has not been overrun by trolls, so far at least. Some of the other threads have become infested. Most insidiously, the sock-puppeting of MoA regulars has reached levels I’ve not seen before. I love the openness of MoA, but maybe it’s time to have a user registration. I hate saying that but…

Posted by: KMRIA | Sep 15 2024 17:27 utc | 18

Followed the Craig Murray link @12…Craig Murray is in error denying that Harris wasn’t in charge of immigration. The diplomatic mission was indeed all she was named to, nor was it clear this mission was ever a serious one. The claim that pointing out Trump reversed his public position on the Florida amendment “the very next” day is somehow loading the question is reaching. I haven’t read Craig Murry before, but the notion of journalistic objectivity he works with in this, where a notorious blatant liar is to be treated respectfully simply because he is rich, famous and leader of a powerful political party is completely misleading, political BS, in my judgment. For one thing, the ABC correspondents should have jumped all over Trump for the Haitian baiting, out of simple common decency. Someone who is up in arms over the right of the rich, famous and powerful to spew BS without the least pretense of real objectivity, merely a pious decorum is no friend to humanity.
Oh, yes, Claudia de la Cruz for president!
Sovietico@8 may be tired of the disputes between Trotskyists and Stalinists, but they keep recurring because, despite superficial appearance, they really are relevant. What passes as Trotskyism frequently is merely anti-Communism disguised with Marxist phrases. And what is called Stalinism is frequently a meaningless amalgam that is supposed to stop all thinking. There’s a lot of whining here about TDS and persecution of Trump, but if you look at how Stalin is treated, that will show those crybabies what genuine universal (by the bourgeois) demonization looks like. Both Trump and Clinton have been demonized but both had their MSM defenders. A good place to tackle the demonization of Stalin is the Domenico Losurdo book Stalin: Critique of a Black Legend. Grover Furr’s books take an honest lawyer’s approach, but don’t do historical analysis of the broader issues. I will recommend one Trotsky book, Terrorism and Communism. Like Lenin’s Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky, it is a response to Kautsky The Dictatorship of the Proletariat. People who wonder about currently existing Trotskyist formations may find it an interesting contrast to their current politics?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 15 2024 17:33 utc | 19

The Kit Klarenberg piece about the early UK role in Viet Nam is complete news to me but it fits in very well with various rumors one might pick up in odd places and (perhaps obscure) popular culture, in particular concerning Japanese involvement and Japanese mercenaries.
It explains some otherwise strange connections (at least to me) and opens the door for more considering how the later US war still involved people of so many different nationalities and backgrounds fighting against Viet Nam (similar to the current US war against Russia).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 15 2024 18:13 utc | 20

@ Wisco
We all need to move on from Trump. The debate was an embarrassment. He face-planted and is now on twitter whining about Taylor Swift to distract people.
Posted by: Tichy | Sep 15 2024 18:00 utc | 21
And yet he has millions who will vote for him, despite the rigged debate at which he floundered. You might be ready to move on from Trump, but his movement is not going anywhere. So, just like US imperialism, it sucks, but it must be considered seriously.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 18:27 utc | 21

@ steven t johnson | Sep 15 2024 17:33 utc | 19
trump didn’t do well, but the abc oversight was indeed an ambush… the whole system is corrupt! you want your leaders to be lilly white? lol.. good luck with that..until someone in a position of power calls bullshit on the whole facade, the rest of the world and the usa in particular, continues to suffer under a number of delusions… madison avenue and the marketing team for ”democracy usa” do a pretty good of maintaining the facade, but not everyone is fooled…

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2024 18:28 utc | 22

I will recommend one Trotsky book, Terrorism and Communism. Like Lenin’s Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky, it is a response to Kautsky The Dictatorship of the Proletariat. People who wonder about currently existing Trotskyist formations may find it an interesting contrast to their current politics?
Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 15 2024 17:33 utc | 19
Boy, that’s not a bad comment STJ. But, Trotskyism is not, as you suggest, really represented by current political formulations, just as surely as AOC and Bernie don’t represent any form of “socialism” and Zizek is not a “Marxist”. Oh and opponents of Israel are not antisemitic. Obviously, terms are abused for political reasons. Even Hitler felt the need to refer to his fascists as “socialists”.
Trotskyism is represented in his own work and writings, which are impeccable. Terrorism and Communism is truly a great work and should be read first by anyone interested in Trotsky. It was written as he led the Red Army via train in crushing the Imperialist white armies and solidifying the base of the revolution for decades to come. You can feel the intensity of the struggle in the writing. Excellent!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 18:37 utc | 23

Continued…
However it still doesn’t explain the “why?” which (beyond really farfetched speculation that I won’t share) is still a mystery to me; what made Viet Nam so important in 1945?
Later on the global spread of communism was an “adequate” (yet fake) excuse but not then.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare it with the UK stuff in Malaysia and elsewhere, unless the liberation/resistance movement simply fought back much harder in Viet Nam?
Afaik at this time and for some years more there were people high up politically or bureaucratically etc. in the US that thought the US should be supporting an independent Viet Nam.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 15 2024 18:37 utc | 24

Thank you very much b for the Jeffrey Sachs and Ray McGovern articles. History, recent history, is beginning to be rewritten, and rewritten well! I had a vague idea that Jeffrey Sachs had been involved in the early days after the Soviet Union fell. How cruel those decisions were!
He makes it all clear, and I can hear that some of Michael Hudson’s ideas about restructuring debt were part of his recommendations for Russia’s recovery. What a pity they weren’t heeded! We can be very thankful he is still around to tell the tale, and for Ray McGovern as well.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 15 2024 18:40 utc | 25

Reports of gunshots near Trump event from Trump campaign….

Posted by: ockham | Sep 15 2024 18:40 utc | 26

@ Ahenobarbus
I hate to say it but Trump had his lunch eaten by the Afro-Caribbean queen. To say his performance was lackluster is putting it gentle. Some might even call it pathetic. Sad!
Posted by: Wisco | Sep 15 2024 17:58 utc | 20
Oh, it was shit. I think he’s been hanging around too many right wing eccentrics. These people, like a lot of left eccentrics, have lost all connection to the working class and social reality. He’d be better off letting JD coach him on how to speak to the masses. They can talk about cat eaters when they’re having drinks off camera.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 18:41 utc | 27

Anyone from California recalls Kamela‘s days as a vicious racist DA. Like extraordinary vicious. And atcthe time; we all thought she was a dot Indian.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 15 2024 18:47 utc | 28

on the issue of ukraine passports and dodging the front line…
Passport Purgatory
Dodging Ukraine’s Bureaucratic Barricades to Avoid the Front Lines

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2024 18:49 utc | 29

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 15 2024 18:49 utc | 31
Yeah. It was rigged. I’m not sure you noticed over the last 6 years or so, but most billionaires, the foreign policy establishment and the intelligence agencies, don’t like trump. In fact, I think they even tried to kill him a couple months ago. So, yeah, its been rigged against him from day one.
That said, I never voted for him or had any faith in his ability to meaningfully change anything.
And it seems like your a little starstruck by Kamala. You think she’s a good speaker? Think she won over voters? I wouldn’t go that far.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 18:58 utc | 30

@Posted by: Tichy | Sep 15 2024 18:00 utc | 21
Trump 2024 is certainly not Trump 2016. He let his own arrogance and narcissism walk him into an obvious trap (Dana Walden, a senior exec at ABC is even a very close friend of Harris) without any proper preparation. Then he let Harris use a stupidly simple device (questioning his rally numbers) to get him off balance, a place where he remained for the rest of the debate. The “eating cats and dogs” statements just made him look utterly ridiculous, especially after the utter debunking of all such claims in the past few days. The Tik Tok guys really did turn him into a laughing stock, especially for the independent swing voters (nothing will change the minds of the true believers with respect to both Trump and Harris). An especially catchy version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BrCvZmSnKA
In the end it was a debate between two neoliberal oligarch Zionist tools who fully support genocide and the destruction of foreign nations, who just disagree on Ukraine and how open they are with their motives. Both are liberals, Trump just plays to the culture wars to corral his sheep while planning to economically stiff them just as much as the Democrats. Jill Stein is a real alternative, that’s why the uni-party works so hard to belittle her, and get her off the ballot. Just like Bernie before her, and Corbyn in the UK.
As with the 1930s, the oligarch class are considering whether or not fake democracy is still functional for them or full on fascism (in the liberal or conservative versions that are in an intra-oligarchy struggle) is what is now required. The new trend that I am seeing of people whitewashing Hitler and Nazism is very interesting from this perspective.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 15 2024 19:25 utc | 31

Here are just some of the lies that were left unchallenged by Muir and his co-moderator:
Kamala falsely claimed “not one member of the United States military…is in active duty in a combat zone.”
Kamala falsely claimed she does not support a government takeover of health care (she does).
Kamala denied she supports a fracking ban (she does) and mandatory gun confiscation (she does).
Kamala said “that’s not true” when President Trump highlighted her support for defunding the police — which she has repeatedly called to do.
Kamala denied she raised money to bail violent rioters out of jail during the 2020 Summer of Love — but her tweet is literally still up.
Kamala falsely claimed President Trump supports “Project 2025” — despite the fact that he has never been involved.
Kamala falsely claimed Tim Walz didn’t legalize abortion-on-demand until birth in Minnesota — which is exactly what he did.
Kamala claimed President Trump supports a national abortion ban (he doesn’t) and wants to ban IVF (he doesn’t).
Kamala resurrected the Charlottesville hoax, which fact-checkers have repeatedly debunked.
I was personally disgusted by their unprofessional behavior. And now you know why journalists are among some of the least trustworthy people in the nation.

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Sep 15 2024 19:25 utc | 32

Roger,
A good case can be made that we Americans already live in a full blown tyranny.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 15 2024 19:36 utc | 33

Re-reading Sallust’s Jugurthine War for a class this week. It could have been written today. If you want to understand how corruption and empire are completely entwined, read it. Sallust is the retired made-man looking back on how Rome’s Mediterranean protection racket fatally undid the city. A masterpiece and gripping.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 15 2024 19:39 utc | 34

“Afaik at this time and for some years more there were people high up politically or bureaucratically etc. in the US that thought the US should be supporting an independent Viet Nam.”
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 15 2024 18:37 utc | 26
I think that was the policy of FDR but when Truman replaced him support for pre-war colonialism scuttled that.
Here’s an excerpt from Ch. 5 of Ho Chi Minh and the struggle for an independent Vietnam by William Warbey, Former UK Member of Parliament. It touches on the same time frame as the Kit K. piece:
“The first people that the new President[Ho] had to deal with were, much to his surprise and disappointment, the British. …
… For the full story of what happened in Saigon during these crucial weeks before the Free French arrived in force, we must turn to an eye-witness, Robert Denton-Williams, who first gave me the following account at his home in Northampton in June 1965, and subsequently published it in letters to the Press and in speeches at public meetings on Vietnam.”

“As an officer of the Indian Army, I was part of the first allied unit to reach Indo-China in 1945. …
…”As many British and Indian officers in Saigon understood it, a deal had been done between Ernest Bevin, British Foreign Secretary, and Massigli of France. Under this secret agreement, the French were to be allowed to re-establish themselves in Indo-China on the understanding that they would not attempt to return to Syria and the Lebanon. [my emphasis]

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 15 2024 19:46 utc | 35

Re-reading Sallust’s Jugurthine War for a class this week. It could have been written today. If you want to understand how corruption and empire are completely entwined, read it. Sallust is the retired made-man looking back on how Rome’s Mediterranean protection racket fatally undid the city. A masterpiece and gripping.
Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 15 2024 19:39 utc | 41
Added to my list. Gratias ago tibi, Pat.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 20:38 utc | 36

Kamala smacked him around like a red headed step child. God help us.
Posted by: Wisco | Sep 15 2024 19:31 utc | 39
Someone’s got a hard on for “La mala”.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 20:39 utc | 37

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 15 2024 19:20 utc | 36
I’m seeing some string indications of a very serious illness. It’s called TDS and it can be fatal. My prescription: Read Caitlyn for two weeks.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 20:42 utc | 38

They are now calling it another assassination attempt:

AP reports that the Secret Service opened fire before the suspect could shoot at Donald Trump
According to the Associated Press, an unidentified man carrying an AK-47 pushed the muzzle of his firearm through the perimeter of Donald Trump’s golf course in West Palm Beach, prompting the U.S. Secret Service to open fire, according to three law enforcement officials.
The assassin then dropped his weapon in the bushes and fled in an SUV, and was later arrested on the road in neighboring Martin County. – AP News.

Didin’t even get his ear this time. Secret Service was on the job.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 15 2024 20:56 utc | 39

Bemildred @ 49
He got a hole in one
Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 15 2024 21:06 utc | 50
This certainly ought to raise Trump’s public profile.
The “attack” seems amateurish, perhaps someone watched too much TV.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 15 2024 21:12 utc | 40

The “attack” seems amateurish, perhaps someone watched too much TV.
Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 15 2024 21:12 utc | 51
Or
It was yet another show, the Secret Service got the first shot and somehow “missed”!

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Sep 15 2024 21:18 utc | 41

Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 18:37 utc | 25

Trotskyism is not, as you suggest, really represented by current political formulations, just as surely as AOC and Bernie don’t represent any form of “socialism” and Zizek is not a “Marxist”. Oh and opponents of Israel are not antisemitic. Obviously, terms are abused for political reasons. Even Hitler felt the need to refer to his fascists as “socialists”.
Trotskyism is represented in his own work and writings, which are impeccable. Terrorism and Communism is truly a great work and should be read first by anyone interested in Trotsky.

I have a modern edition of ‘Terrorism and Communism’ with a very muddled introduction by… Zizek!
I’d like to echo what you said on a previous thread: just read their works! You’ll find they’re not like the Communists you see on TV!

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Sep 15 2024 21:18 utc | 42

@19 Steven t Johnson.
Muito obrigado pelo nível elevado que você introduziu na discussão.
Mais tarde voltarei para ler o que outros escreveram sobre o assunto e para discutir teus pontos.
Desde já, levanto uma questão que não vi até hoje ser abordada nesta velha polêmica Trotsky vs Stálin:
Não devem ter ambos ido contra o centralismo democrático, cerne do bolchevismo, em sua disputa pela liderança do Partido?

Posted by: Soviético | Sep 15 2024 21:24 utc | 43

It was yet another show, the Secret Service got the first shot and somehow “missed”!
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Sep 15 2024 21:18 utc | 52
Could be. Amateurish does not really mean a government institution didn’t do it. I’m just glad he is safe and the FBI is on the case./sarcasm

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 15 2024 21:28 utc | 44

I just cant get past the fact that both partys are fully infiltraited by the israel /jewish lobby groups.
‘Lobby groups’ a term that is a massive under statment.
The whole election is a total fake.
As we all know deep down.

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 15 2024 21:28 utc | 45

This is 100% Putin trying to punish Trump for fumbling the debate. Trump is now a liability.
Posted by: james | Sep 15 2024 21:32 utc | 61
It is never a good thing to disappoint Putin. You take his money, you better dance good.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 15 2024 21:35 utc | 46

Drainage?

Saudi Central Bank Caught Secretly Buying 160 Tonnes of Gold in Switzerland

https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2024/09/12/saudi-central-bank-caught-secretly-buying-160-tonnes-of-gold-in-switzerland-003458
What happens when the International Rules-based Ordure meets the Golden Rule (those who have gold make the rules)?
#AuditFortKnox? Anybody? Bueller?

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 15 2024 21:40 utc | 47

So you delusional TDS dembot psychos tried to assassinate Trump again. Good thing you lot are profoundly incompetent.
”But you MAGA people worship Trump as a savior!”
Do they? You TDS dembots are so sure you are superior to the MAGA ”deplorables”, but how about I show you that you are the fucked up ones?
First, you fucktard freaks have now tried twice to assassinate the MAGA people’s supposed ”savior”. How many town centers have been burned by enraged MAGA people lashing out in rage about their ”savior” being targeted?
Let’s contrast this with you TDS freaks.
Your incoherent, drug-addicted, felonious, gun-violent, Saint George Floyd commits suicide by eating his drug stash so cops who were not even looking for it wouldn’t find it (they probably would have let Saint Floyd go if he had been chill and told them where he got the bogus cash he was trying to pass off), and how did you psycho TDS freaks respond? ”Fiery but mostly peaceful”, I believe was the lie that was told about you. You rioted and burned and looted because your worthless thug hero killed himself.
What more proof do you need that you are the fucked up ones here?

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 15 2024 22:16 utc | 48

It’s not clear to me if the bizarre troll’s monologues attempt to disrupt, or rather emulate the usual deliberations at the Whiskey Bar. Perhaps there’s not much of a difference there; which would fit a certain psychiatric type. For a rational actor to use this tactically seems a bit far-fetched, methinks, though I won’t rule it out.
Oh well.
[Jukebox]

Posted by: persiflo | Sep 15 2024 22:40 utc | 49

Looks like the suspect was a Banderastan supporter!
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1835437477919613432?s=57

Posted by: Joe Turner | Sep 15 2024 22:42 utc | 50

james @67 <— fake.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 15 2024 22:52 utc | 51

Jeffrey Sachs was at center of economic genocide of Russia well into 1990s, in 1995 Sachs was named director of HIID, Harvard Institute for International Development. Officials from HIID “acquired virtual carte blanche over the U.S. economic aid program to Russia, with minimal oversight by the government agencies involved.”…Article: “The Harvard Boys do Russia,” “After seven years of economic “reform” financed by billions of dollars in U.S.,” Janine R. Wedel, The Nation, May 1998: “Through the late summer and fall of 1991, as the Soviet state fell apart, Harvard Professor Jeffrey Sachs and other Western economists participated in meetings at a dacha outside Moscow where young, pro-Yeltsin reformers planned Russia’s economic and political future. Sachs teamed up with Yegor Gaidar, Yeltsin’s first architect of economic reform, to promote a plan of “shock therapy” to swiftly eliminate most of the price controls and subsidies that had underpinned life for Soviet citizens for decades. Shock therapy produced more shock—not least, hyperinflation that hit 2,500 percent—than therapy. One result was the evaporation of much potential investment capital: the substantial savings of [millions of middle class] Russians. By November 1992, Gaidar was under attack for his failed policies and was soon pushed aside. When Gaidar came under seige, Sachs wrote a memo to one of Gaidar’s principal opponents, Ruslan Khasbulatov, Speaker of the Supreme Soviet, then the Russian parliament, offering advice and to help arrange Western aid and contacts in the U.S. Congress….
The U.S. Agency for International Development (U.S.A.I.D.)…was readily persuaded to hand over the responsibility for reshaping the Russian economy to H.I.I.D., which was founded in 1974 to assist countries with social and economic reform.
H.I.I.D. had supporters high in the Administration. One was Lawrence Summers, himself a former Harvard economics professor, whom Clinton named Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs in 1993. Summers, now Deputy Treasury Secretary, had longstanding ties to the principals of Harvard’s project in Russia and its later project in Ukraine.
Summers hired a Harvard Ph.D., David Lipton (who had been vice president of Jeffrey D. Sachs and Associates, a consulting firm), to be Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary for Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union….Sachs, who was named director of H.I.I.D. in 1995, lobbied for and received U.S.A.I.D. grants for the institute to work in Ukraine in 1996 and 1997.”…https://www.thenation.com/article/world/harvard-boys-do-russia/

Posted by: susan mullen | Sep 15 2024 22:54 utc | 52

” Sir, this is a Wendy’s”
Nope faggot, this is a whiskey bar. Get your underage juvenile ass out.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 15 2024 23:04 utc | 53

waynorinorway | Sep 15 2024 19:46 utc | 43–
Thanks for that piece of the puzzle. I tried to find a copy of the book you cited but no luck. I did find this website where it’s cited by another ex-Brit soldier-historian. It appears that there are a number of UK sources that provide further pieces of the post-WW2 puzzle that ultimately resulted in the Outlaw US Empire’s taking on the Vietnam War as its own. Warbey apparently published another book on the topic, Vietnam: The Truth (1965). It appears the few available copies of his books are only to be found in Europe and none are digitized.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 15 2024 23:04 utc | 54

I have a modern edition of ‘Terrorism and Communism’ with a very muddled introduction by… Zizek!
I’d like to echo what you said on a previous thread: just read their works! You’ll find they’re not like the Communists you see on TV!
Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Sep 15 2024 21:18 utc | 54
Probably the most accessible first read for those interested in the man’s actual viewpoint is his autobiography “My Life”. It’s a page turner even for the uninitiated.
Peace to you, Korolev. You’re a gentleman and a scholar.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 15 2024 23:12 utc | 55

Whatever it was, Sputnik has this report.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 15 2024 23:12 utc | 56

24, James, 29, ahenobarbus, and others here. I don’t get it. Trump was the darling of the Democrats back in the day. Millionaire playboy, Studio 54, beautiful women. So what happened? I have friends that are now Republican that used to be Democrat. We all still like to party and have a good time. Most are either still working or retired and probably at least working around the house. US is fubar. Can someone explain? Because I watched it with my own eyes, but it still seems like a David Copperfield trick.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 15 2024 23:44 utc | 57

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 15 2024 23:04 utc | 75
I have a first edition of William Warbey’s Vietnam: The Truth to hand on my bedside table.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Sep 15 2024 23:48 utc | 58

Athena @78“We don’t appreciate that type of homophobia here at MoA, barfly. Do better.”
What, precisely, is “homophobic” about the term “faggot”? Where do any negative connotations it may have come from?
(hint: your own mind)
While you are at it, do suggest an alternative term. I await with barely concealed mirth for something retarded and unwieldy like “gender non-normative person” or something equally ridiculous.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2024 0:22 utc | 59

Re: Sinclair’s article about the attempt of Russia to secure western finance after the fall of the Soviet Union
The neocons do not feel anxious about the thought of having an adversary in Russia. On the contrary, they are most threatened by the concept of peace, by a return to the inward struggle of philosophy. The neocons need a double to prop themselves up as a force for good. Peace time is far too complicate (right, b?) for them. It forces the mind to return to the task of thinking and inward-lookingness. If you look at neocon think-tank articles, they always warn about America looking inward and vacating the task of world policing.
I don’t agree with the article that nationalism is always the result of NOT securing the proper western finance and favorable treatment. Inward-lookingness (or getting your own house in order iow) is always construed by this Lady McBeth-like force in history as the wrong course and always believes that glory exists outside a state’s borders.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 16 2024 1:11 utc | 60

I have scoured every thread for any sign of intelligent life only to be left disappointed.
This place seems incapable of improvement. Nothing personal, so don’t take it that way.
It’s the ‘broken system’ that’s to blame.
Then again, why change your habits of a lifetime? No one is going to tell ‘you’ what to do!
/sarc
Another Habitual Contrarian

Posted by: Escobar | Sep 16 2024 2:29 utc | 61

Shots Fired near ‘Trump’
Breaking News: Multiple MoA posters heads explode in conspiratorial rage.
There is an endless stream of verbal diarrhea here to be contrarian about. Do not shoot the messenger. Oh, what the hell, go for it anyway. I know you cannot be told anything sensible.
Latest News Reports say: The Jooos did it!
Sincerely Yours,
Another Habitual Contrarian
(Backed up by Evidence)

Posted by: Escobar | Sep 16 2024 2:42 utc | 62

@15
Bem vindo de volta Bevin.

Posted by: Soviético | Sep 16 2024 2:45 utc | 63

@Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2024 0:22 utc | 81
You and I know its the equivalent of the N word for Black people, you are just being disingenuous. A quick google search on the word explains the derogatory nature of the term. A homosexual is a person who is attracted to the same sex, its got absolutely nothing to do with gender. But you know that as well, as any functioning adult does.
This is a site for open discussion not people throwing immature juvenile slurs around.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 16 2024 2:47 utc | 64

This is a site for open discussion not people throwing immature juvenile slurs around.
Posted by: Roger | Sep 16 2024 2:47 utc | 88
My god man, open your eyes and look around. You could not be more wrong. Every single day. Double on a Sunday! Gruff belongs on everyone’s block list.

Posted by: Escobar | Sep 16 2024 3:35 utc | 65

some here might appreciate this 27 minute video..
Meeting Ryan Dawson

Posted by: james | Sep 16 2024 3:54 utc | 66

A homosexual is a person who is attracted to the same sex, its got absolutely nothing to do with gender.
Posted by: Roger | Sep 16 2024 2:47 utc | 88
shut up faggot

Posted by: baesti | Sep 16 2024 3:54 utc | 67

In honor of all the cats and dogs in Springfield Ohio, ” Haitian Divorce”, Steely Dan.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 16 2024 3:59 utc | 68

richard steven hack has a 4 part article on substack some here might want to read.. here is the 1st part..
Armageddon in the Middle East – Part 1 – Why It’s Inevitable

Posted by: james | Sep 16 2024 4:14 utc | 69

Ahenobarbus e Korolev.
Obrigado pelos ótimos pontos e sugestões bibliográficas.
Impecáveis.
O que poderiam responder sobre o questionamento que fiz em minha postagem anterior?

Posted by: Soviético | Sep 16 2024 5:15 utc | 70

Ahenobarbus e Korolev.
Obrigado pelos ótimos pontos e sugestões bibliográficas.
Impecáveis.
O que poderiam responder sobre o questionamento que fiz em minha postagem anterior?

Posted by: Soviético | Sep 16 2024 5:15 utc | 71

I am not obsessively Contrarian. I possess an intelligent objective nuance as well.
I therefore proudly announce the inaugural Winner for MoA Poster of the Week is michaelj72
Congratulations Michael who really makes visiting the Palestine thread worthwhile.
Our Runner Up Award goes to Down South
DS is a constant positive contributor for the latest on Ukraine.
Daylight 3rd.

Posted by: Escobar | Sep 16 2024 5:15 utc | 72

For Week Ending Sunday 15th Sept 2024

Posted by: Escobar | Sep 16 2024 5:17 utc | 73

I tried to find a copy of the book you cited but no luck.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 15 2024 23:04 utc | 75
I have it digitized and can try to get it to you if interested.
I know you have interest in SE Asia from your U Davis studies and from other comments you have made over the years so you may find these docs from Waseda University Institute of Asia-Pacific Studies (WIAPS) February 2017 of some interest too: Vietnam‒Indochina‒Japan Relations during the Second World War That’s just the Cover Page. For the rest just change the number in the URL – e.g. the Title Page and ToC would have the number 144468601 in the URL. Numbers run from 144468600 to 144468635. Some good stuff there.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 16 2024 7:34 utc | 74

Roger | Sep 16 2024 2:47 utc | 88
Using the term nigger is the same as using the term abo.
When I was young homosexuals usurped the term gay. In the childrens books, children happily skipping down the street were gay (happy) children. Then the word pride was taken and misused.
Gay though, that once was interchangeable with happy, is now only used to identify homosexuals.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 16 2024 8:08 utc | 75

MANPADs have been commodified

The Jordanian defense company Jadara Equipment and Defense received a license in China for the production of the FN-6 man-portable air defense system and named it Al Sayyad.
machine translated
image in link ==> https://t.me/infantmilitario/136220

These will proliferate faster than the Scud has.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 8:12 utc | 76

james | Sep 16 2024 3:55 utc | 92
I had a look at the open thread earlier when a fake james appeared at the Ukraine thread and was surprised to see the trolls hitting here as well.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 16 2024 8:26 utc | 77

“We become hard wired very early in life. Do you really get to Choose or have Free will?”
The Collapse of Complex Societies, and Drilling Down: The Gulf Oil Debacle and Our Energy Dilemma.
by Prof Joe Tainter: “Surplus, Complexity, and Simplification” with Nate Hagens
Follow for just a few minutes from this time stamp. If interested start from the beginning.
https://youtu.be/undp6sgCIX4?si=oX66djjvSugE_G7W&t=1114
sample text:

All of these things fit into our conception of why we think complexity has grown in human
societies. We tend to think that it has grown because we’ve worked hard and been innovative.
But in fact as I’ve said, those are rare occasions in human history. Most of the time in human history, complexity grows to solve problems.
Nate: Paul Maidowski he wrote, “Empirical evidence shows that individuals can make choices, but species cannot. Ultimately a species will mindlessly choose the path of easiest energy access.”
Do you agree with this or how would you caveat that?
Joe Tainter: That’s a very simplistic suggestion. One can even question the idea that humans make choices. There’s very interesting work going on in brain imaging and brain studies today.
What it is showing is that even very early socialization causes synapses to form in the human brain in certain patterns that an individual has for a lifetime.
The formation of these synapses conditions what the person is going to become, who the person is going to become, how the person will think, how the person will value.
This all raises the question of, “Well, just how much choice do humans have?” There’s an old nature versus nurture debate. Are humans hardwired by nature? Do we become who we are through nurture and socialization?
Joe Tainter: Well, the brain imaging studies are showing that in fact, this is a false question. It’s a false dichotomy. We become essentially hardwired very early in life. Referring to human choice as an explanation for let’s say complexity is just simplistic.
I don’t so much believe in free will but I do believe in free won’t in that you can use your intelligence and neocortex to make plans that ahead of time will trump your limbic mammalian emotional response in the moment. I try to do that, I’m successful like one chance in eight.

show notes refs transcript
https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/27-joe-tainter

Posted by: Escobar | Sep 16 2024 9:29 utc | 78

We become hard wired very early in life.
Posted by: Escobar | Sep 16 2024 9:29 utc | 103

Probably not.

Neuroplasticity was once thought by neuroscientists to manifest only during childhood, but research in the latter half of the 20th century showed that many aspects of the brain can be altered (or are “plastic”) even through adulthood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity

Similar to a salamander regrowing a lost leg, neuroplasticity is one of the remarkable aspects of the Mind.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 9:46 utc | 79

Roger @88:
So “homo” has less negative connotations than “fag”?
Some people need a lesson in how language works. Being proscriptivist with language is doomed to failure, and my favorite example is the adjective “retarded”.
Long ago, scientists and medical professionals coined three terms from Latin and Greek roots to refer to people with differing levels of cognitive impairment. The terms were “moron”, “imbecile”, and “idiot”, in descending levels of severity of impairment. These classifications referred in order to people with IQs of 51-70, 26-50, and 0-25.
“But why make labels for these poor people at all?”, complains the moron.
Because they have differing needs, support, and treatment to survive. The moron, for instance, can be expected to be trainable to support himself and integrate with society with limited assistance. The imbecile can possible be trained to at least manage basic life functions like personal hygiene, dressing himself, and feeding himself. The idiot, on the other hand, will require intensive lifelong support with even the most basic life functions.
So you see, the labels were not coined to demean the cognitively impaired. The negative emotional payloads came after the terms were coined. The terms were intended to be technical/medical/scientific in nature.
In some linguistic process that some here clearly do not understand, the terms took on negative connotations. Calling someone a “moron” became a “juvenile slur”. As a result, individuals with the very best of intentions felt the words had to be retired and replaced with a neutral term, with the differing severities of impairment being explicitly described instead of using otherwise perfectly serviceable shorthand vocabulary. The term chosen was “retarded”, which for people who are not developmentally retarded means “held or moved back”, as in “The car’s engine was experiencing pinging, so the mechanic retarded the ignition.”
Of course, in a process that is no surprise to people who understand how language works, “retarded” soon took on negative connotations, and well-meaning but retarded people decided a replacement was necessary. This time, instead of starting with a neutral term, they decided to use a term that started with positive vibes: “special”. How long was it before calling someone “special” became a “juvenile slur”?
So yet another term was called for by stupid people who don’t understand language. This time they chose a term for the cognitively impaired that they would deliberately conflate with the cognitively gifted: “exceptional”, as in an exception to the norm. Pop quiz: did this elevate the status of the retarded or denigrate the gifted?
And you wonder why kids these days embrace incompetence and mediocrity as character strengths.
I wish rational people would give up the silly notion that certain arrangements of letters and sequences of phonemes have magical powers. It is so primitive.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2024 10:36 utc | 80

re: Trump assasination attempt ?
All the headlines read “shots fired” – but it’s my understanding that the only shots fired were from gov’t agents who saw a guy with a AK-47.
True ?

Posted by: Exile | Sep 16 2024 11:24 utc | 81

”He’s a witch! Cancel him!”
Why is the faux left so prone to such ridiculous hysteria?

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2024 11:53 utc | 82

Whaddayaknow
Witch hunt in 21C democrazies !
Sanctimonious asshole bludgeoned Intel guy

Repeat after me gawd damned it,
There’s Uighurs genocide in Xinjiang

Intel

……..

asshole getting more incensed,

Why are you investing billions in that hellhole ?

Does Hawley even aware that, by his own logic,
The entire international community should’ve BDS India, Indonesia, Israel and…… USAss, mother of all genocides !
There’r lots of BS vid going viral,

Sen Hawley destroys INtel guy
Fucker Carlson destroys woke journo
Medhi Hassan destroys Chinese spokesman

Gimme an interview with these sanctimonious assholes, i’d obliterate them within five min !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trXX41xnZIk&t=67s
—————

slurs

Many MCP here seem to think that calling a man ‘cunt‘, or ‘bitch‘ constitute a coup de grace , the ultimate insult.
Fact is, they are not fit to tie the shoe lace of ladies like Kathy Kelly, or Code PInk etc etc/

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 12:01 utc | 83

Being a truth teller is hazardous for your health in the entire anglophone.
Repeat after me gawd damned it,
There’r genocides in Tibet, Xinjiang , HK, TAM….
Exhibit A
Canada…
CEA ver2.0
https://mronline.org/2022/04/15/chinese-exclusion-act-2-0/

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 12:14 utc | 84

Mark2 | Sep 16 2024 11:38 utc | 84
Mark2 | Sep 16 2024 12:03 utc | 87
Cut it out. So many of you buttercups are too bloody fragile.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 16 2024 12:17 utc | 85

About time….

China touts home-grown chip machines amid self-sufficiency drive
1 day ago
China’s SMEE files patent for an EUV chipmaking tool — tool aims to break the shackles of ASML export restrictions
2 days ago

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 12:28 utc | 86

denk | Sep 16 2024 12:28 utc | 91
Didn’t take China long to get back on top. China has both the STEM and the economy to make things happen.
The west? It can rack up debt and print funny money, but it no longer has the stem, the skilled workers nor the culture anymore to bring ideas to actual finished products and projects.
And most of this stems from the woke style politically correct schooling that Gruff often writes about.
That change began in oz schooling when I was in about year 8 or 9. The early seventies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 16 2024 12:41 utc | 87

That change began in oz schooling when I was in about year 8 or 9. The early seventies.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 16 2024 12:41 utc | 92

Same everywhere. That was when I stopped going to school.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 12:58 utc | 88

denk @91:
I’ve been expecting this, and it will kill ASML, and ultimately TSMC too. To be honest, China is ahead of my expectations, as I was predicting China taking the absolute lead across the board only after 2025. China is kicking ass!
I realize it was never the intention of Chinese companies to obliterate the competition. They were happy buying chips from TSMC. The destruction of ASML and TSMC is entirely the fault of US ”sanctions”.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2024 12:59 utc | 89

too scents@78….that’s pretty cool, Jordan, a Brit colony can now share that technology with the Britkrainians……oh goody!
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 16 2024 13:02 utc | 90

that’s pretty cool
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 16 2024 13:02 utc | 95

Like the AK-47 the MANPAD genie is out of the bottle. Not by accident, they will proliferate everywhere.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 13:07 utc | 91

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 16 2024 12:41 utc | 92
——————-
US remedy…..
Stem courses reserved for Indians, Chinese can still come here to do gender studies !
Looks like the horse has already bolted !

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 13:20 utc | 92

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2024 12:59 utc | 94
————————————-
Apparently the Chinese euv is currently capable of producing ‘<8 nm' chips,
ASML has prolly 3-5 years left to sell China high end <3nm machines before THE Chinese achieved full self sufficiency and says to hell with your sanction !

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 13:23 utc | 93

to hell with your sanction !
Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 13:23 utc | 98

BEIJING, Aug. 19 — A major progress has been made in the construction of the High Energy Photon Source (HEPS), the first high-energy synchrotron radiation light source in China, with the electron beams with currents reaching 12 mA stored in the HEPS storage ring.

Commissioning of the HEPS storage ring will continue in the next few months, with the aim of achieving higher beam currents with a sufficiently long beam lifetime for vacuum conditioning and beamline commissioning, said Jiao Yi, deputy head of the HEPS accelerator division.
The HEPS project is expected to be ready for operation by the end of 2025.
https://english.www.gov.cn/news/202408/20/content_WS66c3ff78c6d0868f4e8ea171.html

The HEPS project will enable the construction of an SSMP-EUV beamline

Under US pressure, China is compelled to aggressively pursue creative solutions like SSMB-EUV. This could be a game changer if China makes it work.
Over the past few days, news on the possibility of China circumventing US sanctions through an unexpectedly innovative approach called SSMB-EUV has generated substantial public buzz in China. With this cutting-edge technological breakthrough, China could construct an “EUV factory” to replace ASML’s individual EUV lithography machines. But is this feasible?
continues ==> https://medium.com/@thechinaacademy/china-may-be-constructing-euv-lithography-machines-on-a-massive-scale-da796ea1af73

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 13:36 utc | 94

https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/uk-govt-signs-wef-treaty-to-close-airports-ban-beef-and-lamb-to-achieve-net-zero-by-2030/
My God, is this serious? Britain would have to be a dictatorship and would sink into poverty and misery.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 16 2024 13:43 utc | 95

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2024 12:59 utc | 94
I agree with your post however, IMO I don’t think you realize why the US puts out some many of these senseless sanctions as they have obviously have backfired yet they continually utilize them.
The PTB are evil but not stupid. They know de-dollarization is underway which will eventually flood the US shores with all those unnecessary dollars: that will will cause hyperinflation in America and will sink the Hegemon-so it ‘sanctions’ US dollars frantically to stave off this perceived greater calamity.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 16 2024 13:50 utc | 96

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 13:36 utc | 99
——————-
kinda like the automobile scenario,
China is lagging too far in traditional petrol cars technology, so the Chinese tried to overtake by going the alternate path, apparently they are now dominating the EV technology !

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 13:55 utc | 97

China is lagging too far in traditional petrol cars technology,
Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 13:55 utc | 102

I don’t believe this story. China was not lagging in petrol car technology.
China chose to pursue EVs in order to gain control of the upstream materials supply chains that are critical to far more than just automobiles.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 13:59 utc | 98

Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2024 13:59 utc | 103
——————-
Thats just my 2 cents !

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2024 14:08 utc | 99

Sovietico@45 asks whether both Stalin and Trotsky may have violated democratic centralism? If you have an ideal image of democratic centralism in your head, I imagine you can find either or both “guilty.” That’s like saying the US for example is democratic because it still has the legal formalities of elections to resolve disputes within the ruling class. There’s a sense in which it’s inarguably true, but is it relevant? The purpose of democratic centralism in a vanguard party is to turn the members into a political fist, in the struggle for power (that’s the centralism, where party discipline makes the fist) while opening the party membership to the most advanced members of the working classes and oppressed and even class traitors, the ones who have the best understanding of the real movement of class struggle and see the path to victory (that’s the democracy.)
But in a governing party, after the revolution, the dictatorship of the proletariat, where the workers’ state sets the rules? The vanguard party can simply be labeled the minority and proclaimed to be in opposition by anyone so inclined. That book by Trotsky I mentioned defended the Bolshevik suppression of an abstract democracy by authoritarian means. The suppression of the Constituent Assembly and the Kronstadt rebellion are so far as I know still upheld by today’s Trotskyists, but generally Trotskyists oppose any such kind of thing in any actually existing socialism. For instance, they uphold the Hungarian revolution of 1956, whereas I believe still that was essentially a counterrevolution of the Kronstadt coloration.Kronstadt claimed to merely want democratic socialism, and pure soviets (purged of Bolsheviks.) And most uphold Tian An Men and Hong Kong and basically any overthrow of an actually existing socialist state—or even deny that there is any socialist state other than the USSR when Lenin and Trotsky were in charge. Thus democratic centralism was finished when Trotsky didn’t have a majority in the Politburo, around 1922. Many Trotskyists claim that was the restoration of capitalism, though that makes you wonder why the capitalist restorationist Stalin didn’t pull a Yeltsin? Rather, Trotskyists should explain this, but I’ve not seen their answers.
If you think of politics as “Who gets what?” a state that delivers benefits to the majority of the population, rather than rigging the game of life so that the minority profit is more democratic, despite the vanguard party in power violating previous bourgeois democratic norms. You could rephrase this as, what kind of property does the state defend? The heterogeneity of the real people, the exigencies of necessity, both for development of the productive forces aka the people’s power to live a better life and the endless siege by imperialism guarantees no abstract ideal of democracy can possibly suffice to guide action. Moralizing about other countries, both good and bad, are not serious politics, just a feel-good hobby I think.
Trotskyists have never been in power, so it is impossible to say much about their conception of democratic centralism being mechanically transposed to the state and society after the revolution. In that sense, as I suggested, questions about democratic centralism in Trotskyism are irrelevant. As for Stalinism, that as I commented somewhere, that is an amalgam. “Stalinism” has been both subordination of the national revolution to another state and the subordination of the revolution to the nation (which includes the bourgeoisie thus any splitting of that class against compradors is claimed to be counterrevolutionary!) “Stalinism” has been both the central planning and industrialism and the use of markets. “Stalinism” has been both the use of non-democratic methods and the capitulation to the parliamentary forms. “Stalinism” as an insult increasingly seems to me to be a symptom. Using that concept seems more and more to be equivalent to using the term “totalitarianism,” a self-exposure as a reactionary who prefers high-sounding fake euphemisms for their own service to the ruling class.
For my part, I do not think of myself as a “Stalinist” but I’m pretty sure the true-blue Trotskyite wreckers would think I am, if they think about me at all, which I doubt. Probably I write too badly (think too muddily?) to be effective in debates with the self-proclaimed leftists I do not see as left at all. But the debates are not to convert them, but to plant seeds of ideas in those who look on.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 16 2024 14:44 utc | 100