jinn@150 The link and the bolding made it clear to me these were Hedges’ words. But it is not clear to me that poor “in spirit” is any more clearly thieves and prostitutes than alcoholics and drug addicts, one possible meaning I suggested may be reasonably implied today. This reading implies the rich in spirit are law abiding people, possibly cops and prison guards, or virgins, maybe faithful women too assuming sex in marriage isn’t deemed undesirable too, at least if meant to make children. (I’m pretty sure Romans and James guarantee male prostitutes at least are not poor in spirit.) References to caring for prisoners rather than guards or recommendations widows might be better advised not to remarry doesn’t suggest to me Hedges’ interpretation is any more plausible. Poor in spirit=social outcasts by the same token means rich in spirit=social superiors, which suggest the “rich” and that’s odd to my eyes.
Again, the issue is the surface contradiction between Luke and Matthew, and why Luke didn’t simply copy Matthew, especially if Luke’s gospel was supposed to be what we would consider a factually based and extensively researched exercise in history/biography. Hedges’ apparent belief that Romans are modern Americans is nonsense. Even if ancient Romans and modern Italians are somehow the same, it wasn’t that long ago historically Italians weren’t considered “white,” as the cretinous insults of dago and wop demonstrate. The assumption that ancient Romans couldn’t see any difference between Jews and Ethiopians and indiscriminately lumped them together seems rather far-fetched too. Given the Romans reportedly killed far more white Gauls than they ever did Jews, it’s not even clear the Romans empire was ancient white race war. If anything, Luke’s modification of the poor to poor in spirit could be read as a political conservative’s attempt to make clear Jesus Christ was not actually upholding the poor as opposed to the rich. And preferring the Matthew is also a preference for the politically conservative understanding. Also, it is peculiar to say the least to ignore that Galilee wasn’t even directly occupied by Romans at all, but held by the tetrarch Herod Antipas!
cynic@151 may be right. There is an old book by one S.G.F. Brandon called Jesus and the Zealots that takes the gospels as largely factual and devises an elaborate analysis on these lines. I found it unconvincing, starting with the assumption it was largely factual. Personally I’m not even convinced there was a Jesus as described, though there were lots of men named Jesus. But then, I don’t believe in King Arthur at all so who am I to say? When reading other ancient historians, I don’t assume they got it all correct or even that they were objective. I’m even open to suggestions they might even be liars. In particular, I am uncertain how later Christians knew what was happening in court, much less behind the scenes. It’s not like there were trail transcripts or newspapers that attempted to be honest and complete. The way that Jesus’ martyrdom in the end somehow involves, Pilate, Pilate’s wife and her dreams, Herod Antipas who wasn’t even the ruler of Judaea/Jerusalem, the Sanhedrin and the mass of the people in Jerusalem days after they celebrated Jesus’ entry…well, if it was reading conflicting accounts of ancient historians I would wonder if such a list of suspects didn’t strongly imply they didn’t know who dunnit and they ended up making up stories. But again, I tend to think reports of personalities and conflicts in King Arthur’s court are made up. Again, then, who am I?
juliania@162 Unfortunately, I do not assume this claim to authority is the necessary premise, but a conclusion to be supported. I wonder even in this short excerpt how there were “many” accounts. I wonder if Theophilus (which means god-lover) is a real person. I don’ think eyewitness testimony is always reliable, and oral histories of them even less. I’m not sure those “who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word” even have relevant testimony in a factual sense. If from the beginning of the world, this is a reference to prophetic (interpretations) of Scripture. And their interpretations as servants of the word sounds more like exegesis of prophetic Scriptures. The idea that Jesus is a construct from old Scriptures is well known in liberal theological circles, though, so maybe the idea has corrupted my eyes, which are already blind due to the lack of holiness. I’m not sure this claim is to what we would consider objective fact, but a claim to Scriptural and doctrinal and even ecclesiastical authority. Insofar as there was an ecclesiastical authority at the time of writing at least.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2024 16:50 utc | 203

Fred’s announcement that Scorpion spouts nonsense is correct but useless. Posts that simply make flat assertions and seem to insult other posters will simply be rejected. Longer posts giving arguments and facts tend to be long posts, which are to be rejected as trolling. tl;dr, too long, didn’t read, as they say. And in the end there is radical epistemological conservatism which denies any principle of truth and rejects the validity of reason. I don’t keep close track but I think Scorpion likes that pose. (I recall much high-sounding drivel against “materialism!” If my memory is wrong, my apologies.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2024 17:02 utc | 205

Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 3 2024 4:53 utc | 183
———————–
The prof needs to be called out, cuz he keep crapping deadly ‘bombshell‘ which can incite genocide .
For example, that ‘Chinese arms for BLM, Chinese training narco gangs ‘ charge is no laughing matter.
The last time CIA/MI6 pulled that stunt, 3M peasants were wiped out in Indonesia, including almost the entire Chinese community.
It gets better….
Yet again, the poop breathlessly announced another ‘bombshell’.
His goto man , none other than…
RFK

Covid an ethnic bioweapon outta Wuhan, designed to genocide Whites and BLacks.

Mind you, the poop‘s idols, Trump and Fucker Carlson proselytized that ‘Wuflu ‘ psyop and provoked a global genocide on Chinese since 2019 that is still simmering today.
This ‘ethic bioweapon targeting whites/blacks ‘ twist could bloody well trigger an even deadlier wave of genocide,.
The poop is a very dangerous disinfo agent, hardly in a position to lecture barflies on anything

Posted by: denk | Sep 3 2024 17:17 utc | 207

Poor in spirit=social outcasts by the same token means rich in spirit=social superiors, which suggest the “rich” and that’s odd to my eyes.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2024 16:50 utc | 204
Do you find this jesus quote from Matthew odd, also?
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 6:1

Posted by: jinn | Sep 3 2024 19:02 utc | 209

Poor meaning lacking possessions. Fundamentally it denotes ‘detachment’ (c.f. eye of the needle) and spiritual poverty indicates lack of doctrinal/dogmatic attachments. This one liner by Isa ibn Mariam (salaam is upon them both) is a comprehensive summary of The Diamond Sutra and the station of ‘no Dharma’ which is the Kingdom.
(Most misunderstand the matter of the Kingdom of God confusing it with “hereafter” whereas it indicates a state of glorification ‘here and now’.)
What is interesting, if not odd, Jinn, is that the Diamond Sutra also addresses the Matt. quote you mentioned ..
https://zcla.org/wp-content/uploads/texts/DiamondSutraMuSoeng.pdf

Posted by: sunof27 | Sep 3 2024 20:03 utc | 211

The European elites have no shame! After shutting down all of the well engineered and safe German nuclear reactors that provided 25% of all German electricity, they now proclaim that nuclear is seen as playing a key role in the European energy mix! Sorry, that train has left the station and ended up in China which is now by far the leader in nuclear technology – perhaps 15 years ahead of the US.
Oh but they cant ask China to build those nuclear plants can they? Oh, no BIG BAD CHINA. So they will have the utterly delay and overrun prone French nuclear industry and the non-existent German one build those nuclear plants, or perhaps the delay and overrun prone US industry? Could ask the Russians, but no BIG BAD RUSSIA.
Yeah lets use this French company EDF takes €12.9bn hit after Hinkley Point C delays and cost overruns, it’s so successful building nuclear plants at home French Bill for Six New EDF Nuclear Reactors Jumps 30% to €67 Billion. Maybe the US companies will be better? Georgia nuclear rebirth arrives 7 years late, $17B over cost
The utter morons float to the top, or is it the US vassals that want to give all industry to the Americans, or perhaps a mix of both?

Posted by: Roger | Sep 3 2024 20:10 utc | 213

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2024 16:50 utc | 204
Sorry, I forgot that you had a problem with ‘eyewitnesses of the word’. That would simply be, to my mind, a reference to the ministry in speech of Jesus, those who heard such directly, or (less likely I think) to the name given to Jesus by John in his gospel, which is explained in the prologue thereof.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 3 2024 20:27 utc | 215

jinn@210 asks a direct question. Yes, I do find the verse odd. This says that if you don’t expect rewards now, specifically the rewards of praise from peers, then you can expect rewards after death. The implication is the rewards earn heaven, a fiercely contested point of view by the. As to the declaration that no one can legitimately hope for even non-material rewards in this life, in and of itself, it sounds like some parent sneering at a child so foolish as to expect praise for doing what they were supposed to. It’s like mom or dad saying, you don’t fool me, you’re just sucking up and it doesn’t count when you suck up. Especially if you just do it in from of strangers! You might be able to read in a more generous attitude? Maybe. The thing is, you quite often can’t understand single sentences or paragraph without reading context. But reading context in a seemingly heterogeneous collections of texts of differing and unknown provenances is either impossible, or demands an interpretive framework added onto it. Presumably for the Saints, this framework is the Grace of the Holy Spirit. I’m out of luck, not being a Saint.
Additionally, there is a huge practical issue for how you treat people, as opposed to how you treat God. Namely, how do you know somebody else’s motives for what they do when looking from afar. Even for people you know well, which is the tiny minority of occasions I think, how can you tell if you are being truly fair, unswayed by prejudices for or against, simply uninformed or maybe suffering low blood sugar or lack of sleep? For that matter, if you accept the reality of mixed motives even, much less unconscious motives, can you even tell when your vanity has misled into putting on a show more than storing up treasure in Heaven? I suppose one could even say what superficially appears to be an act of charity to other people can be a sin against God? That’s why atheists doing good deeds still should burn in Hell forever, to the eternal delight of Heaven. How fortunate that those blessed with Holy Spirit know who is which. Or so I suppose, not being holy myself.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2024 20:40 utc | 217

a wee bit of a history lesson for today. there are a good number of others in the thread that I have not re-posted here.
We can kick off with 1954, a watershed year in modern World History
https://x.com/historyoarmani2/status/1370837690585866244
Armani @historyoarmani2
Thread of United States backed coups in Latin America:
https://x.com/historyoarmani2/status/1370837691420585987
Guatemala 1954:
the USA overthrew Jacobo Arbenz Guzman because he had a land reform program that took over large estates. The CIA believed Guzman was a Communist because he gave more than 200,000 acres of American-owned land to poor people.
Brazil 1964:
USA backed military coup overthrew João Goulart because he had ties with communist countries & urged congress to approve land redistribution. The day before he was ousted he proposed a package to congress which would benefit the working class people of Brazil
Dominican Republic 1965:
after getting rid of the dictator Trujillo, Dominicans had their first free election & elected Juan Bosch. His pro castro sentiments, creation of the Dominican Revolutionary Party, & ability to unite all factions of Dominican society threatened the USA
Chile 1973:
the first Marxist president to ever be democratically elected, Salvador Allende was overthrown by the United States and murdered during the coup because he nationalized healthcare, large industries, gave free education and food for children, and redistributed land
Venezuela 2002:
The failed coup backed by the US was an attempt to get Hugo Chavez out of office because he was a self declared socialist who was and had strong ties with Cuba and Fidel Castro
Bolivia 2019:
Democratically elected president Evo Morales was overthrown by US backed right wing party when he decided to keep Bolivia’s resources in country instead allowing outside businesses to export them

Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 3 2024 21:18 utc | 219

Peer review is not solid enough a process to facilitate the advancement of science by guaranteeing proper conduct in the short and mid-term time frames.
I shall illustrate this opinion by discussing an example from radio astronomy which is not a closed case, but presents ongoing history of science. For past cases that show non-linear progress of ‘science’, view the much discussed fate of G. Galilei as one example of many.
Since I first promised MoA a discussion of this topic, which is still due, the landscape of current astrophysics has changed considerably: a major conference in London took place this past April, which centered on the problem of using Quasars as a means to measure distance, according to the idea that our uniformly expanding universe induces red-shifting of distant sources of electro-magnetical radiation, such as light, infrared and x-ray spectrum waves, due to the stretching of wavelengths that occurs for the duration of their travel until they reach our instruments. While I’m not a proper astrophysicist myself, I do can make sense of the technical questions related to radioastronomy in principle.
I almost literally stumbled on this topic when I came upon a book which Thea had picked up on the streets of Köln. I began to read it, and soon found it to be a real thriller: Quasars, Redshifts and Controversies by Halton Arp. Interstellar Media 1987. I recommend everyone to make sure this book is read, preserved and made available to all interested parties.
Halton Arp narrates how his empirical research on Quasars, which began early on as they were found and took place within the astronomical community, was sabotaged by another researcher, whom he describes at one point as ‘everyone’s friendly radioastronomer’ before adding detail that will have alarms going red in all who are prepared to recognize the more serious disorders of character from a psychological point of view.
I will not repeat Harp’s argument here in detail, but merely state its essence. According to Harp’s observations, it is sensible to treat Quasars not as objects in huge distance/redshift, but try and explain their apparent[!!] proximity to distorted active galaxies as a connected process which has them ejected from those galaxies somehow. This makes immediate sense on the observational data provided by Arp, while it discards the current mainstream practice of using Quasar redhsifts as a fixed measure of distance – instead, the apparent redshift would be subject to a dynamics of the ejection process from the center of the involved galaxies.
Harp had access to major telescopes throughout, albeit with difficulties, and his research, involving other regarded astronomers, was published, though again with difficulties. He wrote the book to relate his story along with his interpretation of the data, to make a counter-historical claim which goes beyond notions of proper scientific conduct and fairness in a peer-review process. His story is well-presented and should be accessible to many laymen with an interest in the topic; and the current progress in the field indeed seems to be facing obstacles related to the understanding of quasars, as discussed by Arp in his book and exemplified by the recent conference in London.

Posted by: persiflo | Sep 3 2024 22:29 utc | 221

I’m out of luck, not being a Saint. – Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2024 20:40 utc | 218
Maybe you should count your blessings, for the Saints are rich in spirit and therefore theirs is not the Kingdom of Heaven…

Posted by: jinn | Sep 3 2024 22:43 utc | 223

“Fred’s announcement that Scorpion spouts nonsense is correct but useless. ”
Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2024 17:02 utc | 206
Pray tell me how ‘Scorpion spouts nonsense”?
Cause I think you spout much more nonsense than Scorpion ever has.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 3 2024 23:40 utc | 225

Maybe you should count your blessings, for the Saints are rich in spirit and therefore theirs is not the Kingdom of Heaven…
Posted by: jinn | Sep 3 2024 22:43 utc | 224
______
In my part of the USA, each Saint gets not only the Kingdom of Heaven, but his own planet besides!

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 4 2024 1:30 utc | 227

Richard Heinberg is the author of fourteen books on the end of growth.
–“The End of Growth: Adapting to Our New Economic Reality”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 4 2024 2:09 utc | 229

@Wisco | Sep 4 2024 2:23 utc | 231
re: I voted for Trump (once) and saw the non-results.
The “non-results” included Trump —
–dumping on NATO
–taking US troops from Syria and Iraq
–drawing up a departure from the twenty year old Afghanistan war
–developing a plan on ending the US war on North Korea, with Kim giving up his nukes
Take it from Tulsi Gabbard, a former Democratic congresswoman and soldier —

Gabbard said: “This administration has us facing multiple wars on multiple fronts in regions around the world and closer to the brink of nuclear war than we ever have been before. This is one of the main reasons why I’m committed to doing all that I can to send President Trump back to the White House, where he can once again serve us as our commander-in-chief. Because I am confident that his first task will be to do the work to walk us back from the brink of war. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 4 2024 2:35 utc | 231

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 4 2024 2:35 utc | 232
My state has open primaries and I voted for Tulsi in the Dem primary in 2020. To no avail.

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 4 2024 3:10 utc | 233

A Pox on all their Houses!

Posted by: Fred | Sep 4 2024 3:22 utc | 235

Ummmmmmmmmmmm?
canuck@226 asks directly, even begs to know, how Scorpion spouts nonsense. Painlessly, copiously and continuously!

steven t johnson | Sep 4 2024 0:42 utc | 227
Actually if there’s any coherent thought here at all, it’s that plague, famine and war are punishments from God and “we” must reform to avoid Divine wrath. Superstitious drivel, worthy only of contempt. Dropping the “g” in “high-falutin” is propagandistic, crass and crude. There’s nothing pretentious, the only snobbery here is Scorpion’s reverse snobbery. The notion that only experts can see the change is a damned lie. Most people who’ve lived long enough have noticed changes slow and erratic in the climate. But seeing them requires awareness of one’s surrounding and the honesty to speak about what you’ve seen, traits I’ve not noticed in Scorpion.
The last sentence gets even nuttier: Who has the power to promote this bait-and-switch? Everything, the whole world, it’s all a conspiracy evidently. How does the belief in climate change save the rich? That’s even nuttier, because it doesn’t. After all most of the rich have a great deal of money invested in today’s fossil fuel economy. It’s denying climate change that saves those people, for a while at least, from being knocked off their perch. Scorpion the stooge for fossil fuels is no stretch, believe me. The pointless invocation of the corruption of the rich people wanting to change the economy and lose money doing it is also senseless in that it (accidentally?) presumes there is un-corrupt wealth. Perhaps, but the illusion that all bad things are due to the sinfulness of individuals is ignorant, backward and superstitious, in the most charitable reading.
And of course, the real question Scorpion hasn’t even the common sense to ask, are the policies required to merely ameliorate, much less prevent, global climate change even being carried out? They are not. Scorpion is terrified about a currently non-existent threat, which is remarkably stupid even for Scorpion.

Yeaah! Nailed it.

Posted by: Fred | Sep 4 2024 3:34 utc | 237

about>>
Halton Arp narrates how his empirical research on Quasars, which began early on as they were found and took place within the astronomical community, was sabotaged by another researcher, whom he describes at one point as ‘everyone’s friendly radioastronomer’ before adding detail that will have alarms going red in all who are prepared to recognize the more serious disorders of character from a psychological point of view.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 3 2024 22:29 utc | 222
That is similar to the ideological / science war going inside climate science which most deny is even happening. Megalomaniacs take on ‘reviewer’ roles to target particular scientists and ideas. The pathological ideological democrat fanatic M Mann leads a pack self-serving cultists who promote the notion “the truth is bad enough” and that the current “solutions/plans” like Net zero 2050 are not only good enough buy working …. there is the other much more logical data based cohort, well represented by James Hansen ex-nasa who says no, what’s being done is not enough, and the future is dire as warming is acceleration faster than expected … and that these climate models are “illogical” and not fit for purpose anymore. They are too flawed and missing critical data inputs and methods.
The pro-GCM scientists and cohorts hate his guts and anyone who aligns with him is shunned and ridiculed and gaslighted. They all deny it, but I am telling the story bluntly and not interested in protecting anyone. Any new climate science paper that indicates similar views to Hansen’s cohort is immediately set upon and pilloried in “climate media” and their research is trashed publicly.
Add to that the UNFCCC COP system is corrupt k\joke where nothing genuine is being acted upon to seriously address the underlying causes and you have a massive series of global disasters in the making as each year passes. eg the hero of the day, M Mann has serious psychological issues and is a fanatic who has lost all reason, logic and common sense the bigger his ego has grown. He’s an offensive abusive internet troll of epic proportions to actively silences all dissent and alternative viewpoints and research.
—-
But relax. Even if all these things were not happening, we are still seriously screwed on this planet that we have all collectively fucked the last several centuries and are doing so even faster today. What will be will be and there is no stopping it now. The Great Simplification and Self-Correction period is upon us. The solution is: Fate.

Posted by: Fred | Sep 4 2024 4:20 utc | 239

Putin himself acknowledges the reality of anthropogenic climate change, but you will never be able to move the ideologues.
Posted by: Wisco | Sep 4 2024 4:15 utc | 239
Thanks for the tip, but honestly I am not even trying to move the ideologues, or the know nothing scorpions not-knowers of this world. It’s all good for a laugh at the end of the day. And I know Putin knows the story but it’s all a bit beyond what he and China can manage on their own. The US and Europe runs this “climate action” show and it is all a charade, but not in the way the denialists imagine it is.
I am not a fanatic and am not on a mission. I gave up worrying about years ago once I saw what was really happening in the climate science / political / economics / ideological Zoo. The use of Nukes and WW3 is far more a serious threat right now. If that goes off then the climate change issue automatically begins self-correcting anyway. population, consumption, and energy use falls off a cliff. Ongoing rapid Ecological destruction being the unknown quantity, but the US will be ‘toast’. Which is a good thing.
I don’t care what people might think, I am just shootin’ the breeze as happy as a pig in mud.

Posted by: Fred | Sep 4 2024 4:33 utc | 241

Fred, it isn’t about logic so much. You come off as a troll here because you say things the echochamber disagrees with. And you often say it in it a denigrating fashion and personal abuse. I just suggest you don’t try to convince anyone here about the facts of climate change and instead focus on something else. You will never convince anyone here to change their mind about climate change. Impossible.

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 4 2024 4:58 utc | 243

Go to any so-called pro-Russia Western website and post a fact about anthropogenic climate change and you will be run out of town. Even though Putin himself acknowledges the fact of anthropogenic climate change. It’s weird.

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 4 2024 5:11 utc | 245

Steven takes too much space to make a point. Paragraph after paragraph after paragraph, and often with no paragraph spaces, just a gigantic post of word with no spaces. My suggestion is fewer words. Edit yourselves for clarity.

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 4 2024 5:24 utc | 247

PS if I may one more contribution, then I’ll leave it
— Inner Sonic Key A Complete Sound Current Guide.txt[27/11/2014 11:32:02 PM]

Virtually every civilization in the world has had some type of creation myth that involved sound, usually sound that was
equated with consciousness and that this celestial sound was the first creation, so that everything else created came
from such ‘otherworldly’ sound in the ether.
A number of spiritual, mystical and religious texts have spoken of this metaphysical equation of sound as an element of
their most honored traditions, for example:
“The sound is the source of all manifestation … The knower of the mystery of sound knows the mystery of the whole
universe.”
“For in the beginning of the times so did we all share in the Holy Stream of Sound that gave birth to all creation.”
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
“The Tao is the source of all things … existed before heaven and earth … eternal … pervades everywhere.”
“In the beginning was OM …”
Plato wrote that the cosmos was constructed according to musical intervals and proportions. Pythagoras called it ‘Music
of the Spheres’ and believed that it fills our inner ears and we are constantly in contact with it from the moment of our
birth. Another Greek philosopher, Heraclitus, called it ‘Logos’ (divine word or sound).
Some Native American traditions call it ‘Song of the Creator,’ while the Bible calls it ‘The Word’ and ‘Voice of Many
Waters’. Hindus refer to it as ‘Anahad Shabd’ (unlimited tone or unstruck melody) and ‘Akash Bani’ (voice from the
heavens), while the Sufis say it is ‘Saute Surmad’ (tone that fills the cosmos).
Lao Tzu described the Tao as ‘unimpeded harmony’ and referred to the ‘Great Tone’ as the source of all things. Guru
Nanak built Sikhism on the foundations of this ‘cosmic tone’. Some believe the knowledge of this ‘mystery tone’ goes
back even farther, beyond the origins of Hinduism, and to the ancient Egyptians of several thousand years B.C.
Others believe that Jesus taught it to his inner circle, his disciples, and also that Mohammed was aware of it when he
was enlightened in the cave at Gare-Hira. Several spiritual Masters teach that this sound of God is in everyone and that
we explore this inner space through meditation. A number of ancient Gnostics mystical texts refer to hearing the sound
of God while in deep meditation states.
Today, these traditions are a part of the Radhasoami Sant Mat movement, as well as several others around the world. In
addition, a number of other cultures, such as the Aborigines, Aztecs, Eskimos, Malayans and Persians all believed that
the universe originated in sound. In fact, the very word universe actually means ‘one song or sound’, uni meaning one
and verse meaning song.
The details of these esoteric theories are as follows. This one sound is divided into unlimited frequencies or tones that
generate a geometric wave pattern containing the information of its order and structure in nature.
Sound is in this way a storage and transfer system for information or the intelligence of the universe bio-system. Much
of our life is spent under the influence of disorganized, chaotic, frantic sound.
The more time one spends within the influence of highly organized and repeating fractal tone patterns, the more solution
orientated is the information attracted and maintained in one’s energy field. This can help allow stress to be replaced
with ease by relaxation, which is why the sacred geometry of sound is a foundation for sound healing.

Posted by: Fred | Sep 4 2024 5:41 utc | 249

Just saying it never makes it true or believable (I am told). I have no idea what ‘wisco’ is talking about now. They sound more than a bit crazy, obsessed and unstable to me. Each to their own.

Posted by: Fred | Sep 4 2024 6:07 utc | 251

[juke box]
Sri Vishnusahasra Namam – M.S. Subbalakshmi

Posted by: persiflo | Sep 4 2024 6:46 utc | 253

jinn@224, malenkov@229 After LOL, it occurs to me, how can it profit it me to have the Kingdom of Heaven if the poor in spirit don’t get their own planet?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 4 2024 15:22 utc | 255

Scorpion, I hope your retreat turns out to be merely tactical. Both denk and Mr. Johnson can’t get an argument straight beyond mouthing off opinions. Ignore them, safe in the knowledge that their various views tend to exhibit “coherency” only as psychiatric cases when you engage them on something. I hate to be disrespectful, but this is simply the plain and dry truth.

Posted by: persiflo | Sep 4 2024 18:07 utc | 257

the Saints are rich in spirit and therefore theirs is not the Kingdom of Heaven… -Posted by: jinn | Sep 3 2024 22:43 utc | 224
LOL, -Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 4 2024 15:22 utc | 258
My statement was not meant as a joke. Its the only logical meaning of Matthew 6:1. Charitable acts given with the expectation of any reward are just business as usual. They are not charity at all. Saints should expect no reward in heaven. The Saints have already been rewarded on earth with Sainthood.
The next verse(Matthew 6:2) reiterates the point:
Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 4 2024 23:04 utc | 259

Posted by: jinn | Sep 4 2024 23:04 utc | 262
Don’t you remember, jinn, that at the last supper when the disciples were told ‘One of you will betray me’ none of them said to themselves, “Well, that can’t be me; I am a saint.” They each said, “Is it I?” And what about the Publican and the Pharisee? The pharisee did say “Thank goodness I’m not like that man there!” The publican knew how unworthy he was, as was the thief on his cross, berating the other one saying “We deserve to be here, but that man has done nothing wrong” Or words to that effect.
Your logic makes no sense. Especially as many of those who were the early Christians had a VERY hard life, as Paul spells out in his letter to the Hebrews. Jesus said ‘My kingdom is not of this world,’ emphasis on IS, but also, not of this world.
I know, I needn’t say all this because yes, you were funning, and of course you don’t care. But please don’t pretend you are being logical, because you are not.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 5 2024 0:03 utc | 261

Posted by: Fred | Sep 4 2024 5:32 utc | 251
Fred, that’s all a lovely set of links, but for Christians, which is the context of that particular discussion, understandings of word go right back to Genesis, to the word spoken by God at the beginning of creation. And ‘spirit’ goes back also to Genesis, to ‘the Spirit of God moved above the waters’. Then too, the actual word ‘spirit’ certainly means breath or wind, so the biblical text that ‘the spirit moves where it will’ can be so translated, as wind. John it is among the evangelists who takes that differentiation very literally by saying “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.” He’s absolutely referencing Genesis, but giving those statements a human form, the form of Jesus.
It still takes my breath away; and that is not a loss. It should. Mighty bold of John to do that, don’t you think? Well, never mind; I think so – because I think.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 5 2024 0:31 utc | 263

Your logic makes no sense
Posted by: juliania | Sep 5 2024 0:03 utc | 264
I don’t understand?
First, its not my logic. Its the plain logic of the words in Matthew. Do you not agree that its reasonable to say that charity done in expectation of reward is not at all charitable?
As for Sarah,Paul and the Last Supper, why are you dragging them into this?

Posted by: jinn | Sep 5 2024 0:55 utc | 265

Posted by: jinn | Sep 5 2024 0:55 utc | 268
Dear jinn, that is exactly what Matthew is saying. You are not being logical in saying that a person who does good out of the goodness of his heart, which is spiritual goodness that noone sees, is being rewarded thereby in the same manner that one who lets everyone know he’s done this wonderful thing is rewarded by their appreciation.
Perhaps my examples weren’t good ones, but in my church we didn’t even pass a collection plate! We had a little box at the back and whoever secretly put something in there, that was the kind of good deed that is the best kind. Let your left hand not know what your right hand is doing, that kind of thing.
Does that help?

Posted by: juliania | Sep 5 2024 1:27 utc | 267

You are not being logical in saying that a person who does good out of the goodness of his heart, which is spiritual goodness that noone sees, is being rewarded thereby in the same manner that one who lets everyone know he’s done this wonderful thing is rewarded by their appreciation.
Posted by: juliania | Sep 5 2024 1:27 utc | 270
I don’t think I said that. I will say that I don’t view the quotations from Matthew posted above as accounting rules for the valuation of rewards for doing charity. Steven seemed to be trying to pin down how those accounting rules work. I don’t pretend to know how they work, because we would have to know the future to know that. What I am pretty sure of is that charity given in expectation of reward is not charity at all.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 5 2024 14:35 utc | 269