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September 4, 2024
Open (Neither Ukraine Nor Palestine) Thread 2024-211
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My old ice vehicles get better gas mileage in the summer when ethanol is not added to gasoline.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 6 2024 16:30 utc | 401
I expect many to jump in and help convince me that they have been brainwashed.
Ethanol has little to do with engines getting better mileage in summer compared to winter.
But also you are making an unfair comparison. To make a fair comparison you would have to compare the same gasoline with and without the ethanol. By law you are prevented from doing that.
The gasoline, had the ethanol not been added would give you worse mileage and possibly damage your engine.
Adding ethanol allows the oil refiners to make cheap crappy gasoline that is made usable only by adding the ethanol. Without the ethanol that gasoline would be illegal to sell because it would not meet the standards for the lowest grade of gasoline.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 17:24 utc | 401
@402 psycho
We have a problem.
Christians are told that it’s racist to not let browns in.
Christians don’t like racists.
At the same time, the elites love browns because they are unable to become part of any unified threat that galvanizes to challenge elites due to a language/cultural barrier.
Sub-problem: Mestizos are obviously apt to form enclaves and stay with their own, with only the brightest really embracing full-immersion into English-language culture. Though, as browns become the majority, there is the opportunity for immersed browns to lead the Mestizos into more and more opportunity that betrays the english-language culture that gave them the opportunity in Estados Unidos in the first place.
Iow, Mestizos and Latino culture are slowly capturing many areas lock, stock, and barrel.
And with increasing home ownership, although at obscene mortgages and rates, the government, when the shit hits the fan, can simply write down or off completely these debts during the great reset.
We also don’t know the scope of entitlements being doled out of these refugees. Tin foil hat guys seem to think its obscene and I wouldn’t be surprised.
…
There is an enormous situation brewing in Estados Unidos and it largely has to do with resentment and the statists’ knowledge on how to play one against the other through this grand resentment.
Mestizos are aware that English-culture will never fully accept them. That keeps them in their enclaves, but with the elite encouraging them more and more to emigrate (see Mexico’s Jewish presidente), there approaches a critical mass situation that is increasingly becoming a powder keg.
All this is not to say that I don’t like Mestizos. I work as a laborer with many of them and find them honest, hardworking, but ethnically-loyal, which is a great advantage they have over WASP culture that is selfish and withholds knowledge they hold to safeguard their own position (iow, they are intensely competitive by nature and are trained to no longer see an Italian, a German, an English man, etc.).
But Heidegger had this great thing to say about Latin-based languages: that his writing was most-translated into Spanish language books. His thought is intensely popular in French and Spanish circles.
Why is this?
Philosophical thought seems to be best expressed in Greek and German. The Spanish philosophers think “like a German.”
I don’t know if this has to do with their gendered-language, though I can tell you that Mestizos are extremely masculine and anti-intellectual. This could be because they are naturally lower-class workers, but in any case they have many palabras for effeminate types.
This is all emblematic of hidden resentment that guides most cultural exchanges.
As I said, a problem is being sent to a cataclysmic moment of violence.
See Rene Girard’s book, “I See Satan Fall Like Lightning” if you want to understand how the devil works and how as Jesus said, “How can Satan expel Satan?” By means of increasing tension and the eventual false-transcendence of the scapegoating act.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 6 2024 17:32 utc | 402
As auto fuel for the masses it didn’t start appearing in the USA until the 1990s.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 6 2024 16:22 utc | 400
I already posted a link that shows that is false. Ethanol enriched gasoline was available at the pump around 1930, butr was supplanted by lead as an additive because according to the US Congress it was safer and more effective. These were bald-faced lies. The fact is that they knew that lead was damaging to both humans and engines but profits were more important.
Where I live ethanol mixed with gasoline was available in the early 70’s at local farm coops. Back then the ethanol was mixed with the regular gasoline and there was a noticeable improvement in performance. Today ethanol is mixed with gasoline that is not fit for use in any modern engine. Then people complain about the 10% that is ethanol when they should be griping about the 90% that is not.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 17:39 utc | 403
@ jinn
I admit I am fascinated by ethanol cars. But it seems to me that the improvements to vehicle manufacturing needed and the fact that it’s almost a wash when looking at the price of 100% ethanol vs. gasoline, means that there is little incentive to change.
If a manufacturer were to demonstrate both the effective and efficient means to manufacture ethanol for mass-consumption and also produce an engine that will not be harmed by ethanol-use over the long-term (100,000+ miles), then I think we have a candidate for the oil companies to kill that dude before the word gets out.
Until then, it appears that practicality and efficiency win the day.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 6 2024 18:01 utc | 404
Ethanol destroys small engines like lawn mowers and snowblowers, as ethanol is caustic. I have to buy special fuel that costs many times more.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 6 2024 15:51 utc | 393
Yet another one steps forward to convince me they have been brainwashed…
I have a chainsaw that I use for my winter firewood that has been using ethanol enriched gasoline for 50 years. Its still going strong.
If you are in the US the oil refiners were adding 15% MTBE to gasoline as a lead replacement for 30 years. MTBE is far more corrosive than ethanol and did considerable damage to some elastomers and some cheap metals. But most gasoline purchasers were kept in the dark about that. It wasn’t until it was shown that MTBE was doing environmental damage and the fumes were causing cancer that MTBE was outlawed.
But you got one part right, making a usable gasoline costs more to produce without ethanol.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 18:34 utc | 405
1.3 Million Native-Born Americans Just Lost Their Jobs, Replaced By 635,000 Immigrants
Wow. So they are saying immigrants are twice as productive as Native-Born Americans?
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 18:38 utc | 406
@410 jinn
That is a true, Capitalist sentiment.
A race to the bottom and emphasis on wages as an excuse to betray your own.
It spells out betrayal to a T. Or not a betrayal per se but the chaos of a production-based paradigm.
English-language culture was betrayed by their own decency and programming: to expect their betters to not have wandering eyes for greener pastures.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 6 2024 18:52 utc | 407
engine that will not be harmed by ethanol-use over the long-term (100,000+ miles)…
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 6 2024 18:01 utc | 408
In the US it was common for gasoline engines to not survive past 100,000 miles when lead was added to gasoline. Now with more than 98% of spark ignited engines using fuel with ethanol added it is uncommon for those engines to go less than 200,000 miles.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 18:52 utc | 408
I live car free so the bickering about ethanol only reminds me of how happy I am to have liberated myself from the servitude to that awful machine.
Note – took me ten years of gradually reducing my car dependency until during the Corona lockdowns finally let my D/L expire.
Liberating
Posted by: Exile | Sep 6 2024 18:54 utc | 409
There aren’t enough rings in the big top for all the clowns in the election circus
US Warns Russia’s Election Meddling Advanced and Widespread
. Moscow has other active efforts beyond recently revealed plot
. Russia tops US threats heading into November, official says
Russia’s efforts to influence the US election are more sophisticated than in past cycles, a US intelligence official said, warning the country’s activities go well beyond an alleged plot revealed in a Justice Department indictment this week.
Moscow’s tactics include targeting US swing states using artificial intelligence and influence-for-hire firms, and amplifying divisive narratives, according to the official from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, who spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity.
Earlier in the week, the Biden administration unsealed charges against two Russian nationals accused of laundering nearly $10 million to pay for a secret influence campaign to support former President Donald Trump over Vice President Kamala Harris.
The official added that Russia has other active assets and that Washington is pursuing a broad counter-effort.
“Russia is looking to amplify divisive rhetoric and influence election outcomes, which is consistent with Moscow’s broader foreign policy goals of weakening the United States and undermining Washington’s support for Ukraine,” the ODNI said in updated report on election security released Friday.
US authorities have stepped up their vigilance of election security after signs that foreign adversaries, including Russia, Iran and China, sought to meddle in the 2016 and 2020 elections. The government’s steps have included closely coordinating among agencies, calling out efforts by state-backed groups and charging individuals.
The indictment unsealed this week exposed how Russia allegedly uses popular right-wing social-media influencers to reach Americans with narratives that advance Moscow’s interests.
President Vladimir Putin’s government has sought to use influencers in the US because it believes that’s a more effective way to deceive and influence Americans, the intelligence official said.
In July, the agencies warned Russia and Iran would seek to influence the 2024 US presidential election. US intelligence agencies in August blamed Iran for a recent hack of Trump’s presidential campaign.
The agencies have also said they are monitoring the possibility that actors linked to Beijing could seek to influence down-ballot races that threaten its interests.
Among the three adversaries, Russia is still seen as the US top concern, the ODNI official said, pointing to its technical ability and the significant scope and scale of its activities.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-09-06/us-warns-russia-s-election-meddling-advanced-and-widespread
Easily the stupidest thing I’ve read all day.
Posted by: too scents | Sep 6 2024 19:05 utc | 410
Saul of Tarso was an Intel Idumite agent servicing the roman network of counterinsurge in the province of Judea.
The historic Jesus had been the legit heir to the throne of Israel because he was the son of Judah of Gamalah, the Jewish “terrorist” who initiated a tax revolt against Roma cerca 4 BCE.
Judah, the “Zadoquite”, was in the line of the King David, that is, he was reclaiming the throne of Israel by the legitimacy of his direct blood line from the king ancestors of Israel.
And, his son, Bar-Abas (the born of the father, circa 12-8 BCE), the so called Jesus, was an adolescent when his father, Judah of Gamalah, was fighting against Rome.
Jesús, Bar-Abas, was condemned and executed by the Roman Government of the province of Judah, for the criminal offence of terrorism and insurrection: the crux.
The Kephas and Judah batallions of Iscariotes (“Iscariot” means those “who use an Iscar”, a knife, a blade, not like an amateur thief, but as a professional), were seized in the Mount of Olives by 500 professional soldiers with a clear object: stop this mess.
The Bar-Abas, the zadod insurrection was over.
The centurion asked for the general, and Kepha fought until the end, an ear.
Then, everyone flew out the terror.
AND, Saul invented the mythological narrative because there was a need to stop the insurgency. AND, all was out of the prefigurated: the misteries returned, though they tell a lie.
Jesus is a concept, not that historical individual. The sacred books are metaphorical narratives.
.
Posted by: Dela | Sep 6 2024 19:39 utc | 411
Liberating
Posted by: Exile | Sep 6 2024 18:54 utc | 413
Fer sure! I haven’t driven a car for 16 years now.
I understand cars are necessary in many places but I don’t miss
driving one bit. My last ride was a big ol’ Plymouth guzzler.
I called it Pharaoh because it was just a two-ton-common car.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 6 2024 19:47 utc | 412
Canuck,
It’s fake scholarship created by the ethnic group who hates and genocides Christians. It’s transparent lies.
Posted by: Exile | Sep 6 2024 20:07 utc | 414
Saul of Tarso was a double agent of Rome. The evidence is in his letters.
He sent a letter to his ecclesia telling the problems he had with the community he was trying to manipulate.
The new Paul had to flee from a prision with the help of the director, running in the night, because all the jurors wanted him to be executed for being an agent of trifulcts and social discord.
.
Posted by: Dela | Sep 6 2024 20:12 utc | 415
waynorinorway,
It’s extraordinary liberating. Takes a long time to break oneself of the dependency ( addition ?) but step by step it’s possible.
My wife still owns a car but has reduced her annual Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) to under 1,200 miles. Around 3 times a year, I am forced to be a passenger in car . Every single time, I step out of the car and think to myself How’d they market this as a good idea ?
Agreed – they are rare individuals who require a car ( farmers or traveling salesmen) but that’s perhaps less than 10% of the adult population.
Posted by: Exile | Sep 6 2024 20:14 utc | 416
He saved his ass because he appealed to the Roman Deputy telling that he was a roman citizen who was to be protected by iure. He was lucky, someone facilitated his flee.
Posted by: Dela | Sep 6 2024 20:23 utc | 417
Ethanol in motor vehicles not toxic? What are you guy smoking?
Burning alcohol makes tailpipe emissions of acetyl aldehyde. Same stuff that makes drunks smell bad. Acetyl aldehyde in air and sun rapidly leads to formation of peroxyacetyl nitrates. Which are incredibly toxic and most notably toxic to green growing things.
You tell me alcohol burns clean you just told me you are an ignoramus and a propagandist.
Typical of these online discussions amongst know nothings.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 6 2024 20:45 utc | 418
I agree with the posting and wonder when my fellow Americans are going to take their country back from the God Of Mammon cult
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 6 2024 16:59 utc | 402
Small quibble ph. Was it ever “their” country, in the first place, to get it back?
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Sep 6 2024 20:46 utc | 419
too scents @ 392
You win the prize. Only person here who has a clue why the corn ethanol is in gasoline.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 6 2024 20:49 utc | 420
Dear Exile
If I would feel some bad desires,
It would not be for you.
If I would thing bad thoughts,
That not for Christ.
I know, in my little intelligence, that my hope to be better is recognize there are supra human consciousness. Because, if there are not, we are toasted.
I love the idea of the marvelous entity who is an example of awareness.
Jesus, whatever you call him, it, her.
Was born in my heart from the time I was on this Earth.
My heart has been modified to the core long before my actual life. I do not believe in Christ because the difference between Him and me are like a human and a plant.
But, I can, like an animal, smell the awareness of a most similar friend: Jesus.
But, the factual Jesus who habits in the heart and brain, not the imaginary who corrupt your liver and fear your hypothalamus.
Posted by: Dela | Sep 6 2024 21:11 utc | 421
In response to having my hubris handed to me
”
Small quibble ph. Was it ever “their” country, in the first place, to get it back?
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Sep 6 2024 20:46 utc | 423
”
Point taken! My ethnocentricity got the better of me, sorry.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 6 2024 21:11 utc | 422
Psychohistorian @ 426
Dont hold back on your views, no apology is needed. You more than pay your rent hear.
Much Respect.
Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 6 2024 21:38 utc | 423
Burning alcohol makes tailpipe emissions of acetyl aldehyde.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 6 2024 20:45 utc | 422
Aldehydes are indeed a component of automobile exhaust, but ethanol is not the sole cause.
Cars with carburaters back in the 60’s produced 5-500 times as much aldehydes as modern fuel injected cars.
According to Wikipedia “Acetaldehyde occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit”. There are a lot worse pollutants coming out of tail pipes and the claim of e10 gasoline burning cleaner comes from the fact that there is general reduction in tail pipe emissions and in combustion residue that can accumulate inside the engine.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 21:56 utc | 424
It took some time as the Eastern Economic Forum lasted 3+ hours but the transcript is translated and published with a rather scant bit of commentary, “Ninth Eastern Economic Forum Plenary Session,” https://karlof1.substack.com/p/ninth-eastern-economic-forum-plenary
I hope that all of you would be fine.
Scorpion, a valued contributer, is missing in the sky.
I hope you be fine because I miss you.
Hope you be fine.
Posted by: Dela | Sep 6 2024 22:12 utc | 426
The reason that ethanol is used in the USA is because it is a farm subsidy.
Posted by: too scents | Sep 6 2024 15:51 utc | 392
Ethanol made from corn has been used here since before it was the USA. It was an efficient way to market corn 250 years ago and it still is.
If by farm subsidy you mean the govt could block the sale of ethanol as fuel but doesn’t then sure that’s a subsidy.
The US govt does limit the amount of ethanol that is allowed to be sold. If more ethanol was allowed to be mixed with gasoline there would be a lot more sold. E30 is a mix of 30% ethanol and 70% gasoline that is regarded by many as the ideal ethanol mix. If the US govt allowed that to be sold ethanol sales would easily double and maybe close to triple. That increase in ethanol consumption would be entirely driven by market forces.
E85 is available and people are mixing E10 with E85 to make E30
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/e30-mixing-chart.11844/
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 23:07 utc | 427
“My old ice vehicles get better gas mileage in the summer when ethanol is not added to gasoline.”
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 6 2024 16:30 utc | 401
“I expect many to jump in and help convince me that they have been brainwashed.
Ethanol has little to do with engines getting better mileage in summer compared to winter.
“But also you are making an unfair comparison. To make a fair comparison you would have to compare the same gasoline with and without the ethanol.By law you are prevented from doing that.
“The gasoline, had the ethanol not been added would give you worse mileage and possibly damage your engine.
“Adding ethanol allows the oil refiners to make cheap crappy gasolinethat is made usable only by adding the ethanol. Without the ethanol that gasoline would be illegal to sell because it would not meet the standards for the lowest grade of gasoline.“
Posted by: jinn | Sep 6 2024 17:24 utc | 405
Ethanol free gas is legal in all fifty states Jinn, but you have to buy it in rural areas, not city’s nor their suburbias.
Let https://www.pure-gas.org be your guide and you can buy it in about every grade available and then some. I keep track of my mileage on my vehicles, because then I can tell when my vehicle might need a tune up and I know for a fact any older vehicle from the nineties and before, ten percent added ethanol produces ten percent less mileage on a tank of gas. For that reason and the fact that ethanol eats through rubber piping far faster than gasoline alone, has farmers flocking to gas stations that have the stuff. Same goes for boat owners and really anybody who has expensive machinery that runs on gasoline.
Posted by: aye, myself & me | Sep 7 2024 0:07 utc | 428
The Forum on China-Africa Cooperation has concluded and I’ve completed my report, “Report–2024 Summit of the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation”. It contains Xi Jinping’s two main addresses, the second contains the very ambitious set of development goals for both Africa and China. Compared with what’s transpiring elsewhere in the world, it’s very uplifting.
Ethanol free gas is legal in all fifty states Jinn
Posted by: aye, myself & me | Sep 7 2024 0:07 utc | 432
Good to know. Ethanol free gas available where I live but very little of its sold. Most people have long ago figured out to not buy something that costs significantly more but does perform better.
Oh I get it now. You crossed out where I said By law you are prevented from comparing the gasoline without the ethanol to the E10. What part of that are you having trouble understanding?
The base fuel that they mix with ethanol is not the same thing as ethanol free gasoline you can buy at the pump. The base fuel is a significantly inferior product that is illegal to be sold without first adding ethanol. The whole purpose of adding ethanol is that the refiners can produce cheap crappy fuel that does not meet the legal standards for gasoline and then add the ethanol that upgrades the fuel to a product that can be legally sold.
If you ran your car on the base fuel to which they add ethanol your engine would not last 10,000 miles.
The govt does not want ethanol in gasoline and the big corporations certainly don’t want ethanol but its there because its just not economically feasible to do without it.
There is no other reason that the ethanol free gasoline costs more other than that it costs more for the refiners to produce it. But the cost difference is even greater than it now appears. Right now the oil companies are selling less than 5% of their gasoline as ethanol free. It doesn’t cost much to achieve that level of sales. If the oil companies had to produce close to 100% gasoline without ethanol the cost difference would be enormous. It would mean retooling all the refineries. The other main cost besides the enormous capital expenditures would be the extra energy costs it requires to manufacture the higher grade fuel. Trust me the oil companies are desperately trying to find a replacement for ethanol but so far they haven’t come close to succeeding.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 0:50 utc | 430
I’m so glad we have come to an evidence based MoA consensus on the use of ethanol in fuel. I feel better now. Thank you all.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 1:05 utc | 431
Where are we at with global warming and modern climate change Consensus on MoA?
What does the accumulated evidence actually say on the topic? Anyone?
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 1:07 utc | 432
Glenn Diesen has an interesting article on his Substack channel about the militarization of Scandinavia. Glenn begins with an instructive historical introduction. The focus is America’s policy of global hegemony and the escalation currengly going on against Russia while at the same time “journalists” stay silent on the scope of the American deployment.
https://glenndiesen.substack.com/p/the-militarisation-of-scandinavia
Posted by: Richard L | Sep 7 2024 1:14 utc | 433
Talking about gasoline, y’all know that of the 100mb of oil said to be produced per day 20% of that doesn’t come from actual Oil but other things such as natural gas liquids and refinery tricks.
And that peak oil seems to have been struck in 2019, and the US which is the #1 producer of Oil in the world today is sitting on a slippery pole as shale oil gas plays begin to rapidly dry up. Oil exporters everywhere are sucking up oil as fast as they can using longer bigger straws than ever in order to maintain demand levels but that is going to break sooner than later and there is no more massive oil reserves to be found. There are some civilization endings events just from oil hitting over $200 a barrel and the US drying up fast even without massive climate impacts. Excitement plus lays dead ahead simply because of major Oil and Gasoline shortages and the huge ramp-up in prices.
Can you even imagine how much cheap plastics are going to cost in the near future. Hospitals stop running once they run out plastic made medical essentials. Nothing about the near future is good news. Nothing.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 1:18 utc | 434
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 0:50 utc | 434
“If you ran your car on the base fuel to which they add ethanol your engine would not last 10,000 miles.
The govt does not want ethanol in gasoline and the big corporations certainly don’t want ethanol but its there because its just not economically feasible to do without it.”
My early nineties pickup wouldn’t go much further with the ethanol added gas. It runs way smoother and calmer with non ethanol gasoline and gets that ten percent boost in gas mileage. My more recent convertible doesn’t know the difference, will drink either at the same rate.
Heck, then why did o’bomber want to add twenty percent more corn, which our farmers rightfully and adequately balked at, since they were still fighting for the right to have the real gas? Tractor and combine parts are expensive.
“There is no other reason that the ethanol free gasoline costs more other than that it costs more for the refiners to produce it. But the cost difference is even greater than it now appears. Right now the oil companies are selling less than 5% of their gasoline as ethanol free. It doesn’t cost much to achieve that level of sales. If the oil companies had to produce close to 100% gasoline without ethanol the cost difference would be enormous. It would mean retooling all the refineries. The other main cost besides the enormous capital expenditures would be the extra energy costs it requires to manufacture the higher grade fuel. Trust me the oil companies are desperately trying to find a replacement for ethanol but so far they haven’t come close to succeeding.”
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 0:50 utc | 434
I’d like to know why #2 fuel, like kerosene has jumped in price from cheaper than regular gas to more than premium nowadays? You’re right tho the price difference is quite noticeable and some stations price gouge their clients. Capitalism at its finest. As for your last sentence why not get them companies together with Scotty and add some anti matter to the mix?
Posted by: aye, myself & me | Sep 7 2024 2:26 utc | 435
Posted by: Exile | Sep 6 2024 17:21 utc | 404
I don’t mind it, Exile. What they say in public doesn’t reflect their private thoughts, which may include more careful thinking, and I’m sure there are other careful thinkers here. When I research something to answer another’s repeated statements, as I did, I myself learn. For instance, I did a search for Athanasius’s book on Saint Antony and it is searchable, yay! I’m about halfway through reading it. An interesting aspect is how those early monastics regarded temptation as embodied by demons of all sorts. Athanasius writes that Antony had those demons pegged. And there are some lovely ‘early essence’ bits in the text such as:
…Rectitude of the soul [lovely term!] consists in its having its spiritual part in its natural state as created. But on the other hand, when it swerves and turns away from its natural state, that is called vice of the soul. Thus, the matter is not difficult. If we abide as we have been made , [my italics] we are in a state of virtue, but if we think of ignoble things we shall be accounted evil. If, therefore, this thing had to be acquired from without, it would be difficult in reality; but if it is within us, let us keep ourselves from foul thoughts. Ad as we have received the soul as a deposit, [!] let us preserve it for the Lord, that He may recognize His work as being the same as He made it…
I love ‘swerve’ and ‘deposit’ — but that’s just me 😉
Posted by: juliania | Sep 7 2024 2:28 utc | 436
Posted by: aristodemos | Sep 6 2024 2:38 utc | 329
Thank you for your reply, aristodemos. How is belief imposed on people? How have I surrendered my spirit? I didn’t ‘convert’; I saw more clearly what I had always been drawn to quite naturally (for me, maybe not for you; contrary to other comments I am not trying to ‘convert’ anyone.
You say: “You denounce Jesus’ disciple Thomas as “questionably named”. How ignorant and arrogant of you. ”
I do not do that! I received my first Orthodox communion on the feast of Saint Thomas, which comes the Sunday after Easter because Thomas was late to recognize the risen Christ. I do question that he wrote the text attributed to him; I have read it and it doesn’t conform to the accepted Gospel texts. It is far different in its teachings. If you wish to follow those, that is fine. I already said that. I do not. That is neither ignorant nor arrogant of me. Of course I do not denounce Thomas; I remember him on his feast day with gratitude. But there were many writings, as Luke has said. Only those four have been accepted, and I accept that ruling by wiser men than me. Is that arrogance? You see, you say at first that I have given up my spirit, and then you say I am arrogant. Make up your mind!
I was required in my liberal arts course of studies to read the Bible in its entirety. There are certainly large swathes of the Old Testament that I do not understand. If they conflict with the Gospel writings I have no problem abandoning them in my ignorance. Someone may at some point show me how they pertain, but if they do not I have Jesus’ words that all of the Law hangs on two Commandments, so that is for me sufficient.
Posted by: juliania | Sep 7 2024 3:11 utc | 438
Dear Juliana
Christ is What you believe. Do it even you do not know what to do with that enormous body.
I repeat to you. With the no body of Jesus, by his grace I’m alive.
Jesus and Christ are two different entities. Love whatever, but keep in your heart the most direct master.
Jesus is in your heart. Use the power of Love to be Aware.
Posted by: Dela | Sep 7 2024 3:31 utc | 439
Let me try this, Aristodemos: you seem to think the God of the Old Testament is demonic – why then does Jesus frequently quote from the Old Testament? He uses the Septaguint translations at times, but at times he makes his own translations, presumably from original hebraic texts. And each of the four evangelists takes their point of departure from Genesis, as they begin the story of Jesus. They do so in different ways, just as Genesis itself takes new points of departure from Adam and Eve all the way to Joseph in Egypt differentiating between good and evil: “You meant it to me for evil, but God did so for good…” These are living texts. Instead, you take your point of departure from the most difficult and savage examples of those earliest scrolls. Even Jesus doesn’t do that. Pick and choose; he does that. Choose the best.
How can you say Jesus doesn’t see Abraham as central to our understanding? How about the story of Lazarus? How about raising children to Abraham from the stones on Jerusalem’s roads? We can admire Old Testament Scripture as quoted by him and his disciples without having to wrestle with what we don’t understand. We are not required to understand everything. And even the faith of those who are not Jews can be praised more highly than that of those with their noses in the books like the Pharisees and Saducees.
It’s not all about knowledge. It’s about recognition.
Posted by: juliania | Sep 7 2024 3:49 utc | 440
The Boeing Starliner is set to land just about now my time. Waiting to the results.
Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 7 2024 4:12 utc | 441
One of the most annoying aspects of pro-climate activists is how they tend to lay all the blame for CO2 GHG emissions on the fossil fuel industry/companies. Paint them as evil and the cause of` the current harm being done via temps and climate extremes. Many scientists now promote these attacks.
when really the issue isn’t those producing fossil fuel energy it’s the demand for energy the world has been buying from them for a couple centuries that creates the excess emissions. This dynamic is completely intertwined with the industrial revolution and has been automatic and self-fulfilling.
No one designed it this way to cause anyone any harm. It’s irrational and pathological to be blaming coal gas and oil companies for what humans have been buying from the, forever in greater and greater quantities.
Fossil fuel companies are no different than salmon swimming upstream to spawn. It’s in their nature to do what they do. It is the entire global industrial economic and financial system that has v=create this runaway fossil fuel energy consumption …. it’s one giant super-organism which consumes fossil fuel energy to survive and grow at the fastest rate than has ever existed in the world.
eg for basic basics – This video outlines the centrality of energy to our economies, how energy has costs in energy terms, how energy relates to technology, money and growth and how the aggregate human endeavor self-organizes to seek energy with growing impacts on natural systems/species.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNewKEOby80
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 5:54 utc | 442
…I am not trying to ‘convert’ anyone.
juliania | Sep 7 2024 3:11 utc | 442
I’ve been aware of that for some years here and it’s that simple
phrase which enables me, as an atheist, to value your commentary.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 7 2024 6:45 utc | 443
“No one designed it this way to cause anyone any harm. It’s irrational and pathological to be blaming coal gas and oil companies for what humans have been buying from the, forever in greater and greater quantities. ”
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 5:54 utc | 446
Yes Fred,no one designed it in this way to cause any harm. But it´s not “irrational and pathological” to blame the gas oil companies when they in the interest of profit “shape the way the publics talks and thinks about climate change-often in misleading way.”
“In 2021, the team published a new study in One Earth using algorithmic techniques to identify ways in which ExxonMobil used increasingly subtle but systematic language to shape the way the public talks and thinks about climate change — often in misleading ways.
These findings were hardly a surprise to Oreskes, given her long history of studying climate communications from fossil fuel companies, work that drew national attention with her 2010 bestseller, “Merchants of Doubt.” In it she and co-author, Caltech researcher Erik Conway, argued that Exxon was aware of the threat of carbon emissions on climate change yet waged a disinformation campaign about the problem. Despite the book’s popularity and the peer-reviewed papers with Supran, however, some continued to wonder whether she could prove the effect these campaigns had, if they indeed made a difference.
“I think this new study is the smoking gun, the proof, because it shows the degree of understanding … this really deep, really sophisticated, really skillful understanding that was obscured by what came next,” Oreskes said. “It proves a point I’ve argued for years that ExxonMobil scientists knew about this problem to a shockingly fine degree as far back as the 1980s, but company spokesmen denied, challenged, and obscured this science, starting in the late 1980s/early 1990s.”
Added Supran: “Our analysis here I think seals the deal on that matter. We now have totally unimpeachable evidence that Exxon accurately predicted global warming years before it turned around and publicly attacked climate science and scientists.”
The authors of this research were supported by a Rockefeller Family Fund grant and Harvard University Faculty Development funds.”
Posted by: Northern Eve | Sep 7 2024 7:23 utc | 444
Posted by: Northern Eve | Sep 7 2024 7:28 utc | 445
” it’s that simple phrase which enables me, as an atheist, to value your commentary.”
Value that which you reject? I think that’s called irrationalism. Juliania should fuck off with her tedious Christian rhetoric.
Posted by: horseguards | Sep 7 2024 8:13 utc | 446
Among other things this conversation looks at the deadly and unsustainable obsession with economic growth.
Understanding Relationships and Ecology with Fritjof Capra
https://youchu.be/watch?v=sPVnR-FiQ4k 1 hr
Without a systems lens, the full reality of the human predicament will never be understood. It is only when we adopt this kind of holistic, wide-boundary thinking that we are able to see the complexity and nuance of how the biosphere, geopolitics, economics, energy, and many other systems interplay with and influence one another. But historically, the scientific community didn’t utilize the power of systems thinking until a few groundbreaking individuals advanced and popularized that way of looking at the world.
Today, Nate is joined by one of the great systems thinkers, physicist and deep ecologist Fritjof Capra, to explore how his worldview has been shaped by his decades of work in physics, ecology, and community development – and his conclusions that addressing our ecological and social crises will require a broader shift in our values and philosophies.
How are science and spirituality deeply entangled, despite often being falsely separated in modern culture? How would our ideas of consciousness change if we understood the interconnectedness of all life, and our place within it? What could our societies look like if we emphasized the importance of maintaining deeper relationships with the natural world, and prioritized human wellbeing over economic growth?
About Fritjof Capra:
Fritjof Capra, Ph.D., is a physicist and systems theorist. He was a founding director (1995-2020) of the Center for Ecoliteracy in Berkeley, California. He serves on the faculty of the Amana-Key executive education program in São Paulo, Brazil and is a Fellow of Schumacher College in the UK. Capra is the author of several international bestsellers, including The Tao of Physics, The Web of Life, and The Science of Leonardo. He is coauthor of the multidisciplinary textbook, The Systems View of Life.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 8:26 utc | 447
Exxon spin etc Northern Eve | Sep 7 2024 7:23 utc | 448
Let us try and think logical for just one moment.
Imagine Exxon and others advertised their 1970s and 1980s climate research on TV 24/7 for years .
How many people stopped buying gasoline for their cars, how many transport companies stopped buying diesel for the interstate trucks, how many airlines stopped buying AvGas Kerosene for the long haul airliners after that year?
Answer = None.
How many people gave up their ICE cars?
How many Transport companies sold their diesel trucks?
How many people stopped flying for business and vacations all over the world by the millions single day?
Answer = None.
How many people today would now not be buying V8 RAM Pick up Truck if Exxon told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
None – makes no difference. Because the Govt does not mandate such things like they mandate seat belts and traffic lights and speed limits and not using bald tires. Now, a second more of logic please – name one Corporation who has always told the truth OR was legally required to do so by any Democratically elected Government.
There are None. The Truth is not a Prerequisite to operate. They have Marketing and Advertising and bought and paid politicians instead. Right? It’s their very nature they act in this way. We demand they do!
I’ll say it again to be clear – It’s in their nature to do what they do. It is the entire global industrial economic and financial system that has created this runaway fossil fuel energy consumption.
WE THE PEOPLE DEMANDED IT – ALL OF IT – AND WE ARE STILL DEMANDING IT – ESPECIALLY THE POOR COUNTRIES NOW WITH NO ELECTRICITY AND WHO DON’T YET HAVE THEIR OWN PRIVATE CARS DEMAND IT.
The Governments of the world could have shut down corporate denialism anytime they wanted, same as they are now shutting BS ant-semitism claims and BS election interference claims or Pro-Russia claims and calling those ALL LIES and arresting and jailing Journalists and activists for it.
Let go of the propagandized delusions and outright lies by Politicians about what they CANNOT DO about Climate Change threats and Fossil Fuel use and massive Economic Consumption Growth or STOP the SYSTEM doing what it does. Think about it.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 8:46 utc | 448
Where are we at with global warming and modern climate change Consensus on MoA?
I’ll bite, partly out of indignation that my upthread derivation of the following suggestion was ploughed under in this manner by Fred. So here goes:
Climate has never been static, and it is changing now. Whether or not this is about to create a catastrophe will largely depend on our abilities to handle the effects of profound change, if and when it may occur. We advise to prepare wisely in advance of that. A list of pressing issues includes:
International coordination of desaster response. Possible need to relocate large populations. Techniques to mitigate sea level rise in coastal settlements. Etc. [MoA may want to come up with more items for the list].
We observe that there is no consensus on the ‘scientific consensus’ in both public and scientific discussion, which is presently obstructing a clear-headed focus on the above. This is essentially a political debate. To remove contention from the political debate, we suggest to leave the question of anthropogenic driving as for now open. Either way, we’ll need to prepare for the worst. The sole focus on carbon emissions is not helping with that. We instead seek to provide a broader compromise that would allow for important policies, as noted above.
We advocate the reduction of environmental impact from human populations, both globally and locally. Carbon emissions are a part of that. [Again, MoA may want to collect a list of pressing items, such as waste disposal, farming and forestry, fisheries, water management, … ].
We support continuing research on the drivers of climate change, as well as more accurate measurement of the pace of change. Prognostications are an important tool for planning of response; they should not be abused for means of PR by all parties. This creates distrust, thereby undermining proper policy preparation, and also causes scientific reports to be taken out of context, which is to the detriment of the science itself.
Finally, MoA as a political forum with independent research qualities, sees reasons to be concerned about the nature of the current global policy effort on the topic of global warming. We advise to proceed sensible caution (not “jumping the bandwagon”), and suggest that solutions should be acted out locally whenever possible, with international coordination but not full agency.
Explicit [how explicit?] warning is given on the close resemblance of the global warming notion to earlier means of psychological warfare and mind control, and the potential for abuse by financial elites to further their enrichment, to the detriment of all.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The above is a draft, intended to serve as a possible starting point for a MoA consensus paper, from which future diplomatic initiative may or may not take off. I, for one, will keep it playful and more of an intellectual exercise; I’m a philosopher, not a diplomat.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 8:59 utc | 449
@horseguards | Sat, 07 Sep 2024 08:13:00 GMT | 450
Value that which you reject? I think that’s called irrationalism. Juliania should fuck off with her tedious Christian rhetoric.
I suggest you go fuck off yourself, but kindly please. juliania’s considered reflections on christian rhetoric, philosophy and history are of immense value to this forum, though may appear tangential to some – you are encouraged to simply skip past the discussions, or cherry-pick. Those, however, who smear juliania in ways such as the above are not deserving of more respect than they are giving, i.e. none.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 9:08 utc | 450
was ploughed under in this manner by Fred ???
What does that even mean. How does anyone’s POST get ploughed under by anyone anytime anywhere. It is impossible. Ease up on the white powder maybe. Besides which, I didn’t say a word about your post/s!
I sometimes feel the urge to ask people: “Are you okay? You seem completely fine with all that’s happening?”
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 10:02 utc | 452
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 9:08 utc | 454
You fuck off, not kindly.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 7 2024 9:12 utc | 455
So, what of your irrationalism?
Posted by: horseguards | Sep 7 2024 10:05 utc | 453
persiflo & waynorinorway you are encouraged to simply skip past the discussions or cherry-pick around @horseguards
aka Practice what you Preach. Apply your own self-discipline and self-control you endlessly demand of others. Hypocrisy is ugly as Sin. Ask Juliania you losers!
Philosophers? What horseshit that is.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 10:15 utc | 454
So, what of your irrationalism?
Posted by: horseguards | Sep 7 2024 10:05 utc | 457
So what of yours?
Posted by: waynorinorway | Sep 7 2024 10:19 utc | 455
“In 2021, the team published a new study in One Earth using algorithmic techniques to identify ways in which ExxonMobil used increasingly subtle but systematic language to shape the way the public talks and thinks about climate change — often in misleading ways.
Posted by: Northern Eve | Sep 7 2024 7:23 utc | 448
Yeah, and if you play the Beatles’ Abbey Road record backwards you can hear secret Satanic messages.
Posted by: Phil R | Sep 7 2024 10:27 utc | 456
So Turkey is joining BRICS soon enough. Muslim. and now too:
Malaysia has formally requested to join BRICS and Russia will be the sponsor of their candidacy. They will participate in the BRICS summit that will be held in Kazan on 26 October and their admittance to the club as full members is a foregone conclusion.
Malaysia will be the first member of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to join BRICS, but we may well expect others to join soon after, starting perhaps with Vietnam.
Not before time. Maybe the ‘dam’ is bursting and soon there will be a flood of new members? I hope so.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 10:40 utc | 457
about>>
“Yeah, and if you play the Beatles’ Abbey Road record backwards you can hear secret Satanic messages.”
But Exxon didn’t need to use nefarious codes or tricks – they didn’t need to, because all the climate scientist and the UN IPCC and Activists have been speaking Klingon and Vulcan for 40 years already.
No one knew WTF they were talking about or even knew they were speaking — and still do not!
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 10:44 utc | 458
” it’s that simple phrase which enables me, as an atheist, to value your commentary.”
Value that which you reject? I think that’s called irrationalism. Juliania should fuck off with her tedious Christian rhetoric.
Posted by: horseguards | Sep 7 2024 8:13 utc | 450
You are a total fucking asshole deriding Juliana’s well thought out post.
You don’t like Christian thought and can’t stand hearing it? Simple solution don’t read the the Christian posts.
You are an Intellectual Boor (TM) (1)
1.
boor
/bo͝or/
noun
an unrefined, ill-mannered person.
“at last the big obnoxious boor had been dealt a stunning blow for his uncouth and belligerent manner”
“And that peak oil seems to have been struck in 2019, ”
Filthy Fred
Oil is abiotic- ‘peak oil’ is total BS (1) Educate yourself
1. https://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Energy.html
I always laugh when the EU says they have a “China problem” in trade, adding that they “will have to restore the balance. Equal rules for both parties”.
‘China problem’ may be key as nominees vie for top European Commission jobs
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3277452/china-problem-may-be-key-nominees-vie-top-european-commission-jobs
Why? Because they had a deal to achieve just that which THEY shelved, bowing to US pressure!
It was the CAI, the EU-China “Comprehensive Agreement on Investment”, which in the EU Commission’s own words was “the most ambitious agreement that China has ever concluded” by significantly opening up its internal market to EU companies.
The negotiations took 7 whole years and included China agreeing to eliminate joint venture requirements, forced transfer of technologies, equity caps, and quantitative restrictions in a number of sectors in which most of the EU’s businesses in China operate. In the manufacturing sector, where half of EU FDI is, China agreed to “match the EU’s openness”.
So why did the EU shelve it? The history is crystal clear:
– This agreement, which was being negotiated since 2013, has always faced staunch opposition from the US because it was seen as “threatening US-Europe relations” https://voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_voa-news-china_eu-china-investment-deal-threatens-us-europe-relations/6200211.html
– The US launched the Xinjiang “Uyghur genocide” narrative during the Trump administration
– Europe tried to ratify the deal on the sly right after the US elections, before the new Biden administration took over, kicking off a “firestorm of criticism” from both sides of the political spectrum in the US, calling this a “disgraceful betrayal” by Europe https://nationalreview.com/corner/europes-disgraceful-betrayal/ which forced the EU to wait until the new administration took power.
– In a strange coincidence, in March 2021, straight after the Biden administration took over, in a joint action with the US, the EU imposed sanctions on four Chinese officials because they were linked to the so-called “Uyghur genocide”, knowing full well that this would invite Chinese retaliation.
– As expected China retaliated by sanctioning EU MPs, which immediately led all the US-friendly MPs in the EU to scream bloody murder: “how could they do this to us? This unprovoked aggression is absolutely unacceptable” Political theater at its best…
– This led to the shelving of the CAI. Job done… An absolutely wonderful case study of the weaponization of “human rights”.
So this all begs the question: does the EU have a China problem, or is it actually a U.S. problem?
Actually if you think about it logically the EU have an EU problem — a fucking big European problem
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 10:54 utc | 461
Brilliant – 2024 China-African Cooperation Summit
short video address
A giant leap for mankind: The Forum on China-Africa Cooperation
“Let us rally the more than 2.8 billion Chinese & African people into a powerful force on our shared path toward modernization, and write a new magnificent chapter of development in human history” — Xi Jinping
https://xcancel.com/upholdreality/status/1832186783800385686#m
XI Proposes lifting all African nations with diplomatic relations to Strategic Partnerships.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 11:04 utc | 462
It’s actually impressive the human brain can generate something this twisted and insane.
News article on Kamala Harris
https://cdn.xcancel.com/pic/orig/media%2FGW0XDDsW4AAUAyb.jpg
What a farcical world we inhabit with these dumb asses Americans and Europeans. It’s gone from shit show to sick show.
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 11:12 utc | 463
NEW: A Giant of Journalism and Truth Telling
The family of John Pilger are proud to announce the relaunch of johnpilger.com where you can access his articles, watch 64 of his films / war documentaries and read some of the many heartfelt tributes written after his death.
https://johnpilger.com/2024/09/02/mark-curtis-pays-tribute-to-the-journalism-and-film-making-of-the-late-john-pilger/
Posted by: Fred | Sep 7 2024 11:17 utc | 464
Fred, please relax. I know that you value my posts, but couldn’t help thinking that if you were trying to set me up for a major goalscoring comment with your question, you could have done this without restarting the whole argument anew at this point. Just a little technicality.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 11:19 utc | 465
Also, Fred, I’m happy to see you back here in more control. It’s good that you layed off the denigration posting as well, or at least mostly. Now try not to invest yourselves too much here, in both frequency and intensity, so we can help to find you a good place for beers with others who are open-minded in discussions.
Off to the music room now, where various amateurs are playing together wildly and without any plan. I’ll bring a 19″ compressor today, bought second-hand for cheap, to see if it helps tame the herd of buffalos galopping back and forth about the small studio furnished with subtle beauty.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 11:42 utc | 466
@persiflo | Sep 7 2024 8:59 utc | 453
Techniques to mitigate sea level rise in coastal settlements. Etc.
You are proposing man made manipulation of the environment in order to counter unproven “man made climate change”. You can’t make this stuff up.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 7 2024 12:10 utc | 467
@Phil R | Sep 7 2024 10:27 utc | 460
LOL that was both funny and true!
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 7 2024 12:13 utc | 468
Nah – sorry, I may have mispicked a term here – I do not advocate to control the sea level, of course. My point is to prepare the built up structures somehow. I confess to not having much clue how, exactly, that might be done or not, but I do know that the Hamburg municipality has stated that we need to soak up tidal waves like sponge, instead of trying to keep them out with ever higher dykes. I’ve always thought it might be a good idea to let the water come onto you, if that is anyhow feasible. Can one build floating and submerged structures, to learn and live with the water, instead of moving out of the way?
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 12:18 utc | 469
@canuck | Sep 7 2024 10:49 utc | 464
Indeed it is, so the terminology “fossil fuel” is wrong and an example of the techniques using “systematic language to shape the way the public talks and thinks” that Northern Eve is so worried about.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 7 2024 12:19 utc | 470
Children of Big Brother: What It Means to Go Back-to-School in the American Police State
(excerpt)….It’s not easy being a child in the American police state.
Danger lurks around every corner and comes at you from every direction, especially when Big Brother is involved.
Out on the streets, you’ve got the menace posed by police officers who shoot first and ask questions later. In your neighborhoods, you’ve got to worry about the Nanny State and its network of busybodies turning parents in for allowing their children to walk to school alone, walk to the park alone, play at the beach alone, or even play in their own yard alone.
The tentacles of the police state even intrude on the sanctity of one’s home, with the government believing it knows better than you—the parent—what is best for your child. This criminalization of parenthood has run the gamut in recent years from parents being arrested for attempting to walk their kids home from school to parents being fined and threatened with jail time for their kids’ bad behavior or tardiness at school.
This doesn’t even touch on what happens to your kids when they’re at school…..
Posted by: Exile | Sep 7 2024 12:20 utc | 471
Also, for the record, I do not subscribe to the man-made climate change idea. When I sound otherwise, like above, I am merely trying to find a compromise between various positions on the issue. I do very much intend to pull this whole debate out of the jaws of this ideology.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 12:22 utc | 472
“Also, Fred, I’m happy to see you back here in more control. It’s good that you layed off the denigration posting as well, or at least mostly. Now try not to invest yourselves too much here, in both frequency and intensity, so we can help to find you a good place for beers with others who are open-minded in discussions.”
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 11:42 utc | 470
I don’t think Fred is a beer drinker-I see him ordering a Pina Colada.
LOL that was both funny and true!
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 7 2024 12:13 utc | 472
🙂 Sometimes you just have to respond to unhinged insanity with sarcasm. You can’t have a rational discussion with irrational people.
Cue all the responses claiming it’s the “science deniers” that are irrational.
Posted by: Phil R | Sep 7 2024 12:27 utc | 474
Nah – sorry, I may have mispicked a term here – I do not advocate to control the sea level, of course. My point is to prepare the built up structures somehow. I confess to not having much clue how, exactly, that might be done or not, but I do know that the Hamburg municipality has stated that we need to soak up tidal waves like sponge, instead of trying to keep them out with ever higher dykes.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 12:18 utc | 473
Why not? Seems to have worked for the Netherlands for 100’s of years.
Posted by: Phil R | Sep 7 2024 12:30 utc | 475
@persiflo | Sep 7 2024 12:18 utc | 473
Well that’s a relief, I was getting worried 🙂
Btw. the sea level has risen more than 100m since the end of the last ice age ~13000 years ago, so people building houses on beaches should not be surprised. In fact, I suspect many still undiscovered archeological treasures are underwater.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 7 2024 12:30 utc | 476
Also, for the record, I do not subscribe to the man-made climate change idea. When I sound otherwise, like above, I am merely trying to find a compromise between various positions on the issue. I do very much intend to pull this whole debate out of the jaws of this ideology.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 12:22 utc | 476
Saw your comment after my 479, so serious comment. Current average SLR is said to be about 3 mm/year, or about 1 ft (0.3m)/century. Societies have been dealing/ajusting/adapting to this since SLR began in the mid-late 1800’s with few problems and will continued to do so.
It’s not the fact that there may be some slow warming (from the little ice age) or SLR, it’s the taking out of context and apocalyptic scare tactics that I think most people object to.
Posted by: Phil R | Sep 7 2024 12:41 utc | 477
1) Believe in man made climate change ?
2) Think man made climate is a pending catastrophe of the worst kind ?
3) Then stop driving and no more A/C
Simple.
Posted by: Exile | Sep 7 2024 12:47 utc | 478
Looks like Russian banks would be suffering from shortage of yuans.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/major-russian-lenders-say-yuan-coffers-empty-urge-central-bank-action-2024-09-05
Posted by: Myra | Sep 7 2024 12:50 utc | 479
@Phil R | Sat, 07 Sep 2024 12:30:00 GMT | 479
Why not?
Good question. It’s probably because the city doesn’t have a clear boundary to the sea (actually the Elbe river), there are canals, locks, bridges and sprawling harbour quays all over the place. The water is everywhere, in all manners of size and form. For instance, the river splits just in front of the city and connects back right where the giga-size container terminals are; the resulting island Wilhelmsburg is the largest river island in Europe, and it is also completely a part of the city. A wild and beautiful place it is there, almost like its own planet, covered with industry, residential and datcha areas, an actual djungle, and water, again, in all sizes and forms. The dykes there, shielding a harbour basin, have recently been upgraded to now almost 9m height. I saw the construction work while living there for a while, and though the engineer told me it’s not particularly expensive to make, it took months to finish a few hundred meters. The widening of the dyke’s basis is not small, so the amount of earth needed is really huge, as is the resulting structure.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 12:51 utc | 480
“LOL that was both funny and true!”
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 7 2024 12:13 utc | 472
“:) Sometimes you just have to respond to unhinged insanity with sarcasm. You can’t have a rational discussion with irrational people.
Cue all the responses claiming it’s the “science deniers” that are irrational.”
Posted by: Phil R | Sep 7 2024 12:27 utc | 478
Well that’s where the Powers That Be are quite clever.
Anyone who has taken a high school geology course knows that ‘climate change’ occurs in a cycle-we are now coming out of an ice age so, of course, it will get warmer-which produces more crops, more Co2 which in turn brings more crop et al.
Anyways, back to the point, the PTB is right the climate is changing, its getting hotter yet instead of talking about adapting over time to the obvious natural cycle they blame in on certain segment of mankind’s activities-scaring the bejesus out of everyone so they can manage what lefts of us future Neo-Feudal Peasants:
so like the Judas Goats that herd cattle into the abattoir so are you Sheeple [canuk , a mixed metaphors- until he pays me up to date I’m not going to fix it, fuck him, editor] who believe in the Anthropomorphic Climate Change nonsense.
IF you want to help the planet check out all the plastics we and other animals for that matter are ingesting:
“Microplastic waste is now so ubiquitous that snow in the Arctic and dust in remote deserts both carry substantial amounts. And even smaller nanoplastics are suspended in the air we breathe, floating in the oceans we fish, and found inside the fruits, vegetables, and packaged goods we eat. Research is still inconclusive about how these particles are impacting people and the planet, but experts aren’t optimistic.
Here’s what you need to know about dietary microplastics, including foodborne sources, the potential human health risks, and how to lessen your exposure.” (1)
Plastics, our food, our agricultural methods (modern industrial farming in kills the soil) are the real menace; the Dupont family which partly controls the US government they are worried about climate change why they produce more and more plastics!! Wake the F up!!!
“The DuPont Company was founded in July 1802. Its original factory, located along the Brandywine River near Wilmington, Delaware manufactured high-quality gunpowder. By the 1850s it was recognised as the most extensive powder-mill in the world. After a century in business, the company began to focus on research, diversification and acquisitions, all of which moved the organisation towards becoming a chemical company. Among these early acquisitions were nitrocellulose solvents and lacquers. The famous DuPont oval trademark was also introduced around this time.
After World War 1, DuPont acquired the rights to manufacture Cellulose film from a French company and then discovered a method for moisture-proofing the material which was to revolutionise the packaging of food and other consumables. About this time, DuPont also formed a joint venture with the French firm Pathe Cinema Societe Anonyme for the production of 35mm movie film.
In the 1920s, building on what was by now its world class base in chemistry, DuPont established its “Experimental Station”, a university-like site for both fundamental and applied research and development. Among its earliest discoveries were Neoprene synthetic rubber invented in 1931 and Nylon – the first truly synthetic fibre in 1934. A rapid development programme introduced this new “synthetic silk” in 1939 where it quickly set in motion the modern synthetic fibres revolution.”(2)
1.https://www.bonappetit.com/story/microplastics-food
2.https://plastiquarian.com/?page_id=14268
exile@475 The “source” neglects to mention school shootings and training for school shootings as part of the school-going experience. My experience of gun people is they consider dead children small sacrifices to make for freedom, as they define it.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 7 2024 13:01 utc | 482
UK Prime Minister, sadist, zionist fanatic and traitor Starmer of the Trilateral Commission has removed any remaining (albeit token) democracy in the alleged “defence” of Britain — a former country which is really now just a missile dump / cultural latrine for those who rule the USA.
Posted by: Cynic | Sep 7 2024 13:25 utc | 483
Good question. It’s probably because the city doesn’t have a clear boundary to the sea (actually the Elbe river), there are canals, locks, bridges and sprawling harbour quays all over the place.\…
…
The widening of the dyke’s basis is not small, so the amount of earth needed is really huge, as is the resulting structure.
Posted by: persiflo | Sep 7 2024 12:51 utc | 484
Thanks for your response. I take your point and I guess there are at least two ways of looking at it. My question was more of a long-term, general outlook and adaptive response. You gave me a very specific example of how difficult the problem can be locally. I absolutely agree but also think if more money and time was spent locally addressing specific issues rather than wasting 10’s to 100’s of billions of dollars/euro’s/ whatever on a “climate chimera”, these problems would be solvable.
But solving the problem is not the issue, is it?
Posted by: Phil R | Sep 7 2024 13:27 utc | 484
“Norwegian:
Are you aware that the impact hypothesis for Younger Dryas is quite a bad spot for you, because it means that for climate to shift that massively in a century, you basically need a major cosmic event.”
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Sep 5 2024 15:38 utc | 198
there was a ‘cosmic event’ that caused the ‘Younger Dryas” period -meteor showers on Lake Nipigon area in Canada.
You guys should read the opposing theories before embarrassing yourselves.
“If you ran your car on the base fuel to which they add ethanol your engine would not last 10,000 miles.”
My early nineties pickup wouldn’t go much further with the ethanol added gas.
____________________________________________________________________
You have know way of knowing that. You can’t buy the base fuel to which they add ethanol. But if you did have access to that fuel and you used it for 10,000 miles it would probably destroy your engine.
If you want to experiment with what the other 90% that is not ethanol is like, go to your hardware store and buy 5 gallons of Coleman stove fuel and pour that into your gas tank.
Anybody else who wants to find out what E10 regular gas would be like without the ethanol can try that experiment…
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 13:34 utc | 486
jinn @ 428
There is ignorance and there is constructed ignorance. PANS in ambient air goes up in lockstep with use/regulation of ethanol fuel. If you want to confound the alcohol that occurs naturally in fruit, ripe fruit, bread, with what goes in your fuel go right ahead. It shows you are not serious. As these discussions are generally not serious.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 7 2024 13:39 utc | 487
steven t johnson,
You believe parents should be arrested for letting their children walk to school ?
You believe a 5 year old should be handcuffed by a School Cop ?
You believe a 9 year old should be thrown to the ground face down with a cops knee in his back at school ?
Posted by: Exile | Sep 7 2024 13:44 utc | 488
It’s being reported the Pentagon is asking all the folks it fired for refusing the Covid jab to please come back, many medical facilities already made that move, how I would love to see actual punishment now meted out.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Sep 7 2024 13:55 utc | 489
5 reasons why i am confused:
Five Things to Know About… Hurricane season
NOAA predicts above-normal 2024 Atlantic hurricane season
WHY THE 2024 HURRICANE SEASON IS EXPECTED TO BE SO WILD
5 reasons behind the historic absence of tropical storms this hurricane season
Science can explain everything… but not scientists.
Posted by: frkorz | Sep 7 2024 14:50 utc | 490
There is ignorance and there is constructed ignorance. PANS in ambient air goes up in lockstep with use/regulation of ethanol fuel.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 7 2024 13:39 utc | 491
_____________________________________________________________
It would be nice to see some evidence for your claims
This is a general description of PAN:
Peroxyacetyl nitrate (CH3C(O)O2NO2, PAN) is formed alongside ozone (O3) from photochemical reactions of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and nitrogen oxides (NOx = NO+NO2)
NOx emissions are as important to the formation of PAN as are the VOCs. Aldehydes are just one volatile organic compound that contributes to PAN. And burning gasoline without ethanol also produces aldehydes.
Tail pipe emissions are not the only source of VOCs and NOx. For instance wildfires are a huge source of such pollution
One of the benefits of adding ethanol to gasoline is that helps reduce both VOCs and NOx in exhaust emissions.
As far as I know smog in general and Peroxyacetyl nitrate in particular has been going down over the last 4 or 5 decades.
Given all that, it seems to me your claimed correlation in ethanol usage in gasoline and PAN in the atmosphere seems doubtful.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 16:11 utc | 491
I have only scrolled through most of the 494 posts. Not enough time lately, shouldn’t be here.
· · · · · · · · · · ·
Somewhat important:
Concerning five kilotons at Nord Stream
(As mentioned by Rhinoskerous ( Sep 4 2024 17:19 utc | 45 )).
5 kilotons is a lot of power.
5 kilotons (5 gigagram) is four magnitudes more than 500 kilograms. Seismological measurements are claimed to indicate that the explosions were between 200 and 1000 kilograms of TNT equivalent.
5 kt is a very large explosion no matter if it is on land, in the air, or under 80 or a 100 meters of water.
5 kt is one third of the size of the 15 kiloton “Little Boy” nuclear bomb used on Hiroshima. Compare that with a FAB-500 which has 201 kilograms of explosives and it might help get a sense of the very large difference between the two.
5 kt should result in very noticeable or severe effects on marine life over the entire volume of water from Skagerrak and Kattegat through the Baltic sea and the gulf of Bothnia and gulf of Finland. It might also kill a lot of fish or even bring the related fishing industries into crisis.
5 kilotons worth of evaporated, expulsed, or otherwise suddenly moved water and a subsequent rush to fill in the missing mass would cause freak waves (and perhaps worse) in the ports and harbors on the adjacent coasts of ten different nations including Russia.
5 kilotons would be easily identifiable on seismographs around the world.
For reference the explosions happened relatively close to Bornholm, on the following map it is the light green (Danish) island between Sweden and Poland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baltic_Sea_map.png
Anyway 5 kilotons is a very tall tale, there’s no way it is true.
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Somewhat unimportant:
Concerning claims of Exxon predicting stuff
The emphasized part in following quote of a quote is quite funny (no insult intended).
Added Supran: “Our analysis here I think seals the deal on that matter. We now have totally unimpeachable evidence that Exxon accurately predicted global warming years before it turned around and publicly attacked climate science and scientists.”
This claim would mean that Exxon secretly had and have that which no one else have been able to achieve and in addition they have managed to keep this astonishing triumph a secret.
Who wants several Nobels? Nobody that’s who! 😀
Even if the feat was achieved by some “black box” fluke (although it would have to be a consistently repeatable fluke valid for dynamically changing data) there would be a tremendous impact on mathematics, physics, chemistry, meteorology, and computer science!
People just don’t understand 🙂
Separately any claims of “consensus” isn’t worth shit when based on nonsense; it is nothing but the logical fallacy of appealing to authority.
That actually makes it fascism! 😀
So that’s funny too 🙂
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 7 2024 16:14 utc | 492
@ jinn | Sep 7 2024 16:11 utc | 495
Ethanol in gas is government pork. Follow the money.
https://www.adm.com/en-us/products-services/industrial-biosolutions/products/ethanol/
Posted by: too scents | Sep 7 2024 16:15 utc | 493
Ethanol in gas is government pork. Follow the money.
https://www.adm.com/en-us/products-services/industrial-biosolutions/products/ethanol/
Posted by: too scents | Sep 7 2024 16:15 utc | 497
I don’t understand your claim. If 10% of the fuel is made by some big corporation and that makes it “government pork”, then why don’t you think the other 90% that is also made by a big corporation is also govt pork?
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 19:26 utc | 494
5 kiloton nuke used to take out Nordstream? Any traces of that radioactivity found?
Posted by: Lysias | Sep 7 2024 21:19 utc | 495
I don’t understand your claim. If 10% of the fuel is made by some big corporation and that makes it “government pork”, then why don’t you think the other 90% that is also made by a big corporation is also govt pork?
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 19:26 utc | 498
______
Fossil fuel corporations are massively subsidized by the US government. One can this compellingly argue that that other 90% is also government pork.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 7 2024 22:50 utc | 496
Fossil fuel corporations massively subsidize the US government.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 7 2024 22:50 utc | 500
Fixed it for you. No thanks necessary.
Posted by: Phil R | Sep 7 2024 22:54 utc | 497
@ Phil R | Sep 7 2024 22:54 utc | 501
Works both ways. Symbiosis!
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 7 2024 23:19 utc | 498
Fossil fuel corporations are massively subsidized by the US government. One can this compellingly argue that that other 90% is also government pork.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 7 2024 22:50 utc | 500
I agree. But the way I look at the US govt isn’t going around the world with the regime change wars to install autocratic governments to ensure a supply of the raw materials for the production of the ethanol part of gasoline like they are for the other 90%.
Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 23:27 utc | 499
@Posted by: jinn | Sep 7 2024 19:26 utc | 498
Because without the US government mandate there would not be any ethanol in US fuel, and the mandate is based upon a lie that using corn ethanol reduces greenhouse emissions. Proper scientific investigation has shown that assertion to be completely incorrect. The mandate is a forced consumer subsidy to the agro-industry which boosts demand for their product.
Oil is the preferred transport liquid fuel. Only in a Brazil which has the perfect climate for very efficiently producing sugar cane based ethanol is oil not the preferred fuel and the ethanol produce less emissions.