Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 12, 2024
Ukraine SitRep: The Kursk Incursion Was Stopped

On its seventh day the Ukrainian army incursion into the Russian Kursk oblast seems to have come to a halt. The front-lines are hardening and the Russian side is using its artillery and bombing predominance to push it back.

There are three Ukrainian brigades involved plus a number of battalions that have been dispatched away from their brigades involved in other parts of the front. The 80th and the 82nd paratrooper brigades are the main forces. They have partly been trained in Britain and Germany and are using western equipment. The 22nd mechanized brigade is the third major unit. Then there are some five to ten battalions from various other brigades.

The Economist reports (archived) on the operation from a hospital in Sumy:

[T]he accounts from Ukraine’s wounded suggest it has not been a walk in the park, and remains risky. The hospital ward reeks of the sacrifice: soil, blood, and stale sweat. Foil burn-dressings line the corridor. In the yard, the patients, some wrapped like mummies from head to toe in bandages, smoke furiously. Angol, a 28-year-old paratrooper with the 33rd brigade, looks like a Christmas tree. His left arm is immobilised in a fixation device. Tubes, bags and wires protrude from his body. He was also about 30km into Russia when his luck ran out. He isn’t sure if it was artillery or a bomb that hit him. Maybe it was friendly fire; there was a lot of that. All he can remember is falling to the ground and shouting “300”, the code for wounded. The Russians had been on the run up to then, he insists, abandoning equipment and ammunition as fast as they could.

That the Russia border troops have taken to run is not astonishing. They were mostly conscripts and not armed sufficiently to withstand an armored onslaught:

Some aspects of Ukraine’s operation appear to have been meticulously planned. Operational security delivered the element of surprise, a crucial aspect of warfare. “We sent our most combat-ready units to the weakest point on their border,” says a general-staff source deployed to the region. “Conscript soldiers faced paratroopers and simply surrendered.” But other aspects of the operation indicate a certain haste in preparation. All three soldiers quoted in this article were pulled, unrested, from under-pressure front lines in the east with barely a day’s notice.

The Ukrainian army moved in with the best troops it still had plus some extras scrapped from the bottom of its barrel. Russian units which have been moved to the border have put a halt to the Ukrainian movement. Mobile reconnaissance platoons the Ukrainians have been sending down the roads to outlaying towns have mostly been eliminated. The huge progress seen on some Ukraine friendly maps now looks much smaller. Some 30 small settlements have been captured but even the local administration center Sudzha, with previously 6,000 inhabitants, has not been fully conquered.

A new Ukrainian attempt today to cross the border at the Kolotilovka checkpoint in the Belgograd region has failed and the Ukrainian units involved there have taken losses.

Russia has thus mostly contained the Ukrainian onslaught. The operation is now a new meat grinder like Krinky on the southern front previously was. An operationally isolated attrition pit into which the Ukrainians will have to feed more and more reserves they do not have or will retreat from treeline by treeline.

Russian drones and bombers are now leading the fight. The Russian Ministry of Defense claims that the Ukrainian incursion has lost much of its armored equipment (machine translation):

In total, during the fighting in the Kursk area, the enemy lost up to 1,610 servicemen, 32 tanks, 23 armored personnel carriers, 17 infantry fighting vehicles, 136 armored combat vehicles, 47 vehicles, four anti-aircraft missile systems, a multiple launch rocket launcher and 13 field artillery pieces.

The Ukrainian side knew of the danger that its operation could be a dead end. As the Economist writes:

Ukraine does not appear to be reinforcing its positions in any serious sense. “Our calf demands a wolf,” the security source cautions, using a local saying to warn against overly ambitious objectives.

The source cautions against comparing the Kursk incursion to Ukraine’s successful swift recapture of much of Kharkiv province in late 2022. The Russian army is taking the war more seriously now, he says: “The danger is we’ll fall into a trap, and Russia will grind our teeth down.”

It seems to me that this is exactly what has now happened. It was utterly foreseeable.

The operation though is a momentarily still a success in that it increased the moral of the Ukrainian side:

Tired, dirty and exhausted, the soldiers say they regret no part of the risky operation that has already killed scores of their comrades: they would rejoin it in a heartbeat. “For the first time in a long time we have movement,” says Angol. “I felt like a tiger.”

That week long rush of good news for Ukraine is now at its end. The involved units, which already lost a full brigade worth of equipment, will shrink away further. There will be no one to replace them. In the Donbas the Russian army continues its offensive against the weakened and retreating Ukrainian units. New York, Chasiv Yar and Toretsk will soon be taken.

There will soon be questions asked in Kiev, "What was the point?", to which no one will have a good answer. The Ukrainian commander in chief General Syrski may well have to leave over it even though the pressure to do the hopeless operation came, as The Times writes (archived), from elsewhere:

President Zelensky’s personal fingerprints are all over it. It’s been an open secret in Kyiv for many months that the president was pressing his military chiefs to launch a summer offensive.

Given Ukraine’s manpower and resources problems, they were hesitant. But Zelensky is desperate to reverse the narrative that Ukraine is losing its war.

Zelenski believed the Kursk operation would help to keep the war going with Russia failing over time and Ukraine becoming the winner. The Russian Duma announced today that there will not be another mobilization. A mobilization, and following unrest, is something Zelenski had hoped for. There will be no uprising in Russia because of the Kursk incursion, just an increase in nationalism.

The week long operations was certainly insufficient to do change the long term narrative. The high it has caused in Kiev and elsewhere will soon make room for a deep depression.

Comments

thanks b..
@ Tobias Cole | Aug 12 2024 18:44 utc | 36
good comment.. i share your perspective… thanks..

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2024 20:27 utc | 101

“Zelensky wants to put off the date he runs to his villas, hopefully with those swiss bank accounts untouched.”
Posted by: Cresty | Aug 12 2024 17:38 utc | 5
Question:
Do the Reds pull off and Adolf Eichmann, and bring Zelenskyy back home to face the music??? (or does he get to live in Miami with Guido and Netanyahu’s kid?)
The Original Newbie (that you know)

Posted by: newbie | Aug 12 2024 20:29 utc | 102

@66
You are correct that Ukraine and NATO are one and the same thing now. It’s a shame so many Americans don’t understand.

Posted by: GW | Aug 12 2024 20:34 utc | 103

“German Armies
16 December 1944
406,342 men
557 tanks
667 tank destroyers and assault guns
1,261 other AFVs
4,224 anti-tank and artillery pieces
13 infantry divisions[c]
7 armored divisions
1 armored brigade[3]”
Posted by: canuck | Aug 12 2024 20:03 utc | 84
All the Historical Record seem to agree that the Allies were totally unaware of this radio-silent massing of German Troops and Arms. Heck, the Allies didn’t even have border guards, nor did they conceive of Hitler repeating his first Ardennes move at the start of the war. No air rec, no forward info.
So the damn Russkies…copying Western War strategy without attribution.

Posted by: kupkee | Aug 12 2024 20:35 utc | 104

james | Aug 12 2024 20:27 utc | 101
Seems like I hit you with a bit of friendly fire back in the other thread.
There’s a bit of a story, I haven’t followed it up yet, but seems some Chechen’s joyriding up the street on a captured vehicle got hit by their own.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 20:36 utc | 105

Posted by: newbie | Aug 12 2024 20:29 utc | 102
############
The Russians strike me as people who will deliver justice to Zelensky once the spotlight has faded and he has started to feel safe and comfortable.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 12 2024 20:39 utc | 106

Apart from the straight out trolls, so many comments here in the last week siding with Nato in the decolonization of Russia, its disgusting.
Instead of attacking Nato for the foray into Russia, killing Russian civilians, siding with Nato and attacking the Russian leadership.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 20:43 utc | 107

“Food For Life Donetsk” has been blocked in my country. I can no longer access their website to send donations. Does it work for anyone else? https://foodforlifedonetsk.com/en/

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 20:46 utc | 108

keep an eye out for Peter AU1 who is swearing at everyone
Posted by: nini | Aug 12 2024 17:30 utc | 1
You lie.

Posted by: Naive | Aug 12 2024 20:46 utc | 109

One question that so far remains unasked is what possessed President Zippy to overrule Syrski and the other senior generals of the AFU, to insist on invading Kursk oblast in Russian territory.
Why Kursk, of all places? Whose idea was it originally to invade Kursk? By now, we know Zippy has no original ideas when it comes to deciding military strategy and making military decisions. The idea had to have come from his foreign puppet-masters. Maybe Zippy’s minder/s in MI6 might know.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Aug 12 2024 20:49 utc | 110

The idea had to have come from his foreign puppet-masters. Maybe Zippy’s minder/s in MI6 might know.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Aug 12 2024 20:49 utc | 110
That is my thought also.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 20:51 utc | 111

Posted by: Naive | Aug 12 2024 20:46 utc
Without PeterAU1 this blog would have sunk without trace. If he is swearing it’s probably because he is sick and tired of wading through sewage. PeterAU1 has done valiant work keeping it afloat and keeping it relevant during b’s necessary absence.

Posted by: Mexicana | Aug 12 2024 20:51 utc | 112

The Ardennes is too consequential for a comparison. This is more like the Dieppe raid.

Posted by: Darthbobber | Aug 12 2024 20:53 utc | 113

⚡️🇷🇺 Kursk Bulge, operational situation 12.08, 21:00.
What is known at the moment:
By the end of the day, a large number of videos from the Kursk region appeared on the Internet, which allow us to more fully understand what is happening at the front.
❗️The enemy is posting more and more footage from the western and so-called “central” part of Sudzha online. According to various sources, the Russian Armed Forces are only on the outskirts of Sudzha and it is quite possible that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have control over a significant part of the city;
▪️In the Korenovsk direction, the Ukrainian Armed Forces continue to try to break through the defense of the Russian Armed Forces, but everywhere the enemy encounters fierce resistance and has no success. In Olgovka, which is to the west of the settlement of Kremyanoye, which has already been cleared of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, there are battles;
▪️In the Semenovka area, where the Aerospace Forces bombed an enemy concentration, the enemy is again concentrating forces for further attempts to break through to the north of the region;
▪️In the settlement of Giri, enemy armored personnel carriers came under fire from a Russian army BTR-82 . Earlier, videos of one captured armored personnel carrier from this settlement appeared on the Internet and, apparently, this is a different vehicle;
▪️To the south of Sudzha, in the Plekhovo area, clashes continue, and the settlement of Spalnoye came under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. From there, the enemy was able to make a dash to Giri;
❗️The enemy still controls the settlement of Pogrebki. Meanwhile, the fighting in the settlement of Malaya Loknya is still fierce, and the village itself is divided into two parts;
▪️Along the P200 highway, enemy sabotage and reconnaissance groups attempted to gain a foothold near Bolshoy Soldatskoye.
Artillery and the Russian Aerospace Forces continue to keep the Ukrainian Armed Forces under fire, operating in “non-stop” mode
Meanwhile, a large number of photos and videos of broken equipment and bodies of Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers in the region are appearing online. Overall, the enemy has not managed to break through to the north to Kurchatov, Rylsk or Lgov in a day. An attempt to break through to the Belgorod Region has also failed. Only “raid” groups of the enemy continue to operate in the south.

https://t.me/two_majors/29494

Posted by: Down South | Aug 12 2024 20:55 utc | 114

Instead of attacking Nato for the foray into Russia, killing Russian civilians, siding with Nato and attacking the Russian leadership.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 20:43 utc | 107
I haven’t seen any but the most blatant trolls “siding with NATO.”
Is it strange that we direct our energy at discussing what “our” team can do? NATO is the enemy. We all know that. How can we influence NATO by calling them out for the murderous scum they are? They’re psychopaths. If you go to a football game, do you shout for your home team to make that pass, or do you boo at the enemy team for making theirs? Which is more constructive?
Is it strange that there are a lot more posters and a lot more posts these days? For heaven’s sake, the Ukraine has invaded Russian soil. How could that not attract attention?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 20:55 utc | 115

Language?
Just a few weeks back there was an entire thread devoted to idly discussing the C word.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 20:58 utc | 116

I haven’t seen any but the most blatant trolls “siding with NATO.”
Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 20:55 utc | 115
You been looking in the mirror? That’s the best place to find a troll. Go have a look. There will be one hiding in that mirror for sure.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:00 utc | 117

Apparently the initial assault was led by the Georgian mercenary unit, I suspect there are many more soldiers of fortune of other nationalities that have taken part in the incursion. To the last neonazi nutjob…!
Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Aug 12 2024 18:53 utc | 40
A captured soldier told about polish, english and possibly french languages.
Btw he was speaking Russian.

Posted by: Naive | Aug 12 2024 21:01 utc | 118

You been looking in the mirror? That’s the best place to find a troll. Go have a look. There will be one hiding in that mirror for sure.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:00 utc | 117
I tried to be reasonable. Now I’ll just tell you to fuck off.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 21:02 utc | 119

Tichy | Aug 12 2024 21:02 utc | 119
You’re just another troll that has popped up for the mighty Nato offensive. Piss off.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:03 utc | 120

@Peter AU1 Oh and find me one single post of me siding with NATO, you pathetic little shit.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 21:04 utc | 121

Posted by: Mike314159 | Aug 12 2024 20:18 utc | 94
Well you are right in the sense that only spec forces and relying on air strikes/lancets and maybe lack of regular army units is a cause for concern, especially in the back drop of AFU potentially having two more groupings opposite of Tetkino and Kozino.
There could be a lot more targets and coverable areas in the near future. But no one really knows, all just speculation.
If they assembled the initial attack force far away out of sight and deployed it quickly, they can do it for other groups.
They must be NATO forces. And now Lindsey Graham was in Kiev and said they can hire US pilots to fly for AFU air force.
It’s a NATO war about 80% at this point.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 12 2024 21:04 utc | 122

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 12 2024 19:55 utc | 78
“by winning, they create their future defeat.”
Coming to russia sooner than you think. The winning was Crimea, clock has been ticking quite a while…

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Aug 12 2024 21:05 utc | 123

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 21:02 utc | 119
#############
Stop seeking attention.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 12 2024 21:06 utc | 124

@ Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 20:36 utc | 105
thanks peter… it’s all good my friend!!

Posted by: james | Aug 12 2024 21:07 utc | 125

Posted by: Biggus Dickus | Aug 12 2024 21:05 utc | 123
Yeah, about that Kerch bridge; it still seems to be erect…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 12 2024 21:09 utc | 126

unimperator | Aug 12 2024 21:04 utc | 122
According to the Ukie side, one aspect of this operation was to draw reserves away from other sectors but they are saying that did not occur.
I think Rus Mod is watching a larger force that will operate in conjunction with the f-16’s in another sector.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:10 utc | 127

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 12 2024 19:50 utc | 75
That was inevitable. It was a trap and nato fell for it. Thus it will speed things up. Some of the best ukronazis brigades are being destroyed. Btw where are the f16?
It looks like the ukronazis are fond of meat grinders. Why? Because they are so stupid? Because someone else takes the decisions?

Posted by: Naive | Aug 12 2024 21:10 utc | 128

There were reports that 180 Poles and 120 other Nato mercs were involved in Kursk-Sumy attack.
Considering the massive volume of ambulance vehicles running back and forth between Sumy and RU border, they must be out of action. There’s also a high probability they were the initial or second echelong vanguard, who were already beaten up.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 12 2024 21:11 utc | 129

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Aug 12 2024 21:05 utc | 123
##########
Russia is Lindy. NATO is not.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 12 2024 21:11 utc | 130

Reporting from Yemen, Dr Oualaalou on his channel Geopolitical Trends, speaks of the ambush and killing of 70 special forces from Israel/US/UK in a failed attempt to infiltrate the country.
In apparent revenge for the Mali ambush on Wagner forces, Dr O’s interpretation is that Russia satellite surveillance spotted the group, relaying it possibly via Iran to the Yemen Houthis, who wiped them all out.
https://www.youtube.com/live/1z9q-Dg80RU?si=BR-aX5DNfnpwf3IZ

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Aug 12 2024 21:11 utc | 131

What is striking about the attack on Kursk is its unusually good technical planning. In parallel to the (kept secret, which is difficult in itself) DDoS attacks took place on the Russian Internet, traffic cameras were hacked, surveillance drones were switched off and critical checkpoints were occupied at high speed. This was done using elite troops and probably also NATO units. The Asia Times article, which is well worth reading, goes exactly in this direction: https://asiatimes.com/2024/08/ukraine-gambles-with-kursk-invasion-of-russia/ Nevertheless, the operation was ultimately a debacle. Only an insignificant area of ​​land was conquered, thousands of elite soldiers who were missing in Donbass were burned, and areas in the east were therefore lost at an accelerated rate. The question arises about the meaning. I don’t think it was just about “improving the negotiating position”. Or rather, a very significant “improvement” was planned. Captured Ukrainian soldiers stated that the Kursk nuclear power plant, and possibly the cities of Kursk and Belgorod, were the actual targets. That makes sense, because the sacrifices are great and perhaps decisive for the war. The question arises as to why this blitzkrieg failed. It may play a role that Wagner arrived quickly from Belarus. Maybe they simply overextended themselves, underestimated the fighting power of the Russians or maybe they even have new weapons in use that might threaten the F16 (I suspect the timing of delivery was not a coincidence). Now the question arises as to whether the situation isn’t even better for the Russians. Because the Ukrainians are now sitting in a cauldron of their own making, into which they are constantly sending their best troops.

Posted by: xblob | Aug 12 2024 21:14 utc | 132

Stop seeking attention.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 12 2024 21:06 utc | 124
I wasn’t seeking attention. I was defending myself against a little bitch.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 21:15 utc | 133

You all need stop playing the whack a troll game. Its actually the sensless replies that make the threads difficult. If u dissagree w someone fine. Responding to someone you label a troll is well….just as trolly and just as useless as what they post. You either add some info right or wrong or u dont. Mostly adults here howza bout yall start actin like it.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 12 2024 21:16 utc | 134

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Aug 12 2024 21:11 utc | 131
The video is 1h 15min. Sorry, but can you say what was the conclusion – the attack/ambush on FUKUS spec forces did or didn’t happen?

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 12 2024 21:16 utc | 135

BBC Headline today lol
“UKRAINE CLAIMS TO CONTROL 1,000 SQ KM OF RUSSIAN TERRITORY”
Wow! Sounds a lot doesnt it? But the square root of 1,000 km is a mere 31 km. 😂

Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 12 2024 21:17 utc | 136

The question arises as to why this blitzkrieg failed.
xblob | Aug 12 2024 21:14 utc | 132
As Montgomery said “the first rule of war is Do not march on Moscow”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:19 utc | 137

This encursion is like giving an enema to the Russians. Shoving a volume of material up their arse is a bit of a wake call. The coming months after this is dealt with is going to be interesting in how they will prevent this in the future.
More observation flights, better photo intelligence units, long range drone surveillance, more powerful satellites launched; that sort of thing. The Russians will fix the problem and regain their territory in due time. Meanwhile, the death cult will collect its human sacrifices to its god. The Russians will remain a few steps ahead of becoming serfs again.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 12 2024 21:21 utc | 138

Two Majors reports the Cossacks (who fought during AFU 2023 ‘counter offensive’) also arrived in Kursk.
So the AFU spearhead blunted in Martynovka and Koronevo, slowly squeezing them back toward west of Sudzha and obliteration of the rear / stripping supply depots is probably in the books for coming days.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 12 2024 21:21 utc | 139

Reporting from Yemen, Dr Oualaalou on his channel Geopolitical Trends, speaks of the ambush and killing of 70 special forces from Israel/US/UK in a failed attempt to infiltrate the country.
In apparent revenge for the Mali ambush on Wagner forces, Dr O’s interpretation is that Russia satellite surveillance spotted the group, relaying it possibly via Iran to the Yemen Houthis, who wiped them all out.
https://www.youtube.com/live/1z9q-Dg80RU?si=BR-aX5DNfnpwf3IZ
Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Aug 12 2024 21:11 utc | 131
Great news!

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 21:22 utc | 140

Posted by: HB_Norica | Aug 12 2024 19:37 utc | 70
I made that point mate 🤦‍♂️: Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 12 2024 18:45 utc | 37

Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 12 2024 21:22 utc | 141

unimperator 139
The bit about the ambush is near the start of the video, after he says hi to his followers. Dr O has personal knowledge of Yemen and the region in question.
Col Douglas McGreggor has also posted on this raid – as shown in Dr O’s video, but I couldn’t find that original YT video.

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Aug 12 2024 21:28 utc | 142

It be very intresting find why the ukrane atack failed. at start looked impressing but as they say now run out of steem.

Posted by: Fyador | Aug 12 2024 21:28 utc | 143

Chechen’s, Cossacks, Russian paratroops/VDV. A combo hard to beat.
There’s a bit of a doco on youtube, hard to find now, on I think 119 VDV holding a pass against a force of 2000 CIA international headchoppers in Chechnya. Worth watching if you can find it

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:29 utc | 144

OK, ignoring the trolls, today we are possibly looking at the loss of over 3,500 (that is three and a half thousand) Ukrainian troops, rendered hors de combat.
Is this sustainable, or is this attrition writ large?

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 12 2024 21:31 utc | 145

According to Dima at Military Summary channel, Sudzha has completely fallen to the NAZO forces.

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Aug 12 2024 21:33 utc | 146

My interpretation of the AFU strategic goal after a week of this. It was likely supposed to be a distraction to saw panic and force a major redeployment. The NPP could be a false target, a big media target. In conjunction with the DRG raiding tactic passing through satrongpoints to extend as far as possible, it was supposed to sell the appearance of a larger breakthrough. Speculations that there must be a real strike elsewhere are common, but it’s been a week already. Every day in yet another self-founded cauldron costs AFU dearly.
Either this is all AFU got or Russians read them like a book and deny them the opportunity they so desperately gambled for.

Posted by: boneless | Aug 12 2024 21:37 utc | 147

I guess the bright side of not preparing defenses in the Kursk region is that there is no “rich network of fortifications” (as Dima would say) the UAF can entrench in. So, clearing them out of there shouldn’t be as difficult as the Donbass.
However, how is this not a huge screwup? Russia has had 3 years to prepare their border with Ukraine for possible incursion attempts. Muh “big border length arguments don’t really fly. And using your own citizens as bait to lure them in … let’s hope this is just stupid talk, what country would do that, other than Ukraine?
Other question – given that there is only one main supply road into the area from the Ukrainian side, why doesn’t Russia try something bold like a drop of paratroopers to seize that road and cutoff the oxygen hose? Armchair general, at your service.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Aug 12 2024 21:38 utc | 148

Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 12 2024 21:31 utc | 145
Nato losses will be high, far higher I believe than Rus Mod numbers. Nato cannon fodder are on the offensive and out in the open.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:40 utc | 149

Posted by: Mike314159 | Aug 12 2024 20:18 utc | 94
‘However, a week into this and I would expect to see regular forces show up.’
Good comment, there might be a number of options to possibly consider, either individually or as a combination.
1. They don’t have the reserves in the local area: unlikely given the intelligence estimates and the mobilisation, but still a possibility. They do though have the ability to strategically move a division, so maybe that’s the delay.
2. They are blocking the roads further back to stop any further advances: The longer the approach the better, more fuel consumed, more chance of interdiction. Russians are pragmatic, amount of sq territory captured is meaningless if the areas been evacuated and there are no Key Points. Highly likely, follows doctrine, with units digging in and constructing obstacle belts, integrated into an overall defensive scheme. Takes time, but Ukraine’s inability to keep on their overly-ambitious timetable has gifted them days to prepare, not hours.
3. They are repurposing their original offensive plans (evidence: build up, de-mining, recon around Sumy) to launch a counter-offensive and catch the Ukrainian forces in a largely offensive posture. This process requires time as certain elements of the original plan will have to be rapidly recalculated. The troops deployed are mostly elite/veteran, ‘punch above their weight’, units that are ideal for this screening role. Historical precedent would be Operation Fredericus, where German forces held off a Russian offensive around Kharkov, until the Germans launched their own planned offensive.
4. It’s a trap, the Russians are waiting till the Ukrainians commit the majority of their forces to maintain the momentum. Once the required number of units are engaged the trap is sprung. There were reports of Russian DRG’s around the Sumy area, a month ago, were they ‘hunting tongues’ (looking for prisoners)? IIRC, there was talk of ambushing their Ukrainian counterparts, so a possibility. This would explain the minimalist deployments, whilst forcing the Ukrainians to commit more of their phase 2 troops, as they want to bait the trap.

Posted by: Milites | Aug 12 2024 21:41 utc | 150

@ Milites | Aug 12 2024 21:41 utc | 150
“Tongue”, I believe,is Russian military slang for SpecOps/DRG unit member with knowledge of tactical/operational intel. Could be generalized to anyone with intel worth knowing.

Posted by: boneless | Aug 12 2024 21:46 utc | 151

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:00 utc | 117
Literally everyone with whom you have the slightest disagreement you dismiss a troll and make it your business to tell them to piss off. You are either off your meds or you have some serious personality disorder.
How the hell is disappointment with Russia’s inability to protect its territory and people “siding with NATO”? Just like Tichy says (whom you, obviously, dismiss as a troll), we know what the West and the Ukraine are like. The Russians, and especially the Russian senior political officials, military, intelligence services, should know better than anyone (though sometimes I wonder). The Russian leadership is there to protect their people and country against their enemies and they clearly don’t take that role seriously.
If it turned out that all Russian nuclear warheads were useless or missing because of corruption or lack of maintenance, and the US found out and carried out a first strike on Russia, would there also be no reason to be angry with the Russian military and political leadership? Would that be “siding with NATO”? Instead of critcizing them (not that it would matter in the extreme scenario I’m using as an example), we should congratulate and cheer them for at least doing their best and keep their spirits up, like they’re a fucking U-18 football team or something? That’s absolutely insane thinking.
Like I’ve said before, this is all a very easy position for you as an Australian 15000 kilometers away to take. You have no stake in this conflict except as something like a basketball game. But Russians actually live in oblasts like Kursk and Belgorod and it’s not just a team sport for them. They need their military and other state organs to be there for them and they will criticize them when they utterly fail. (You of course sit there in Australia have the audacity to call them doomer sixth columnists, merely hoodwinked by NATO psyops.) This is also why people who care about the actual Russia, and the actual Russian people, posters whom you ironically dismiss as concern trolls, are pissed when the Russian leadership and military fail their obligation time and time again, and worse, don’t even learn from their mistakes.

Posted by: Unnamed | Aug 12 2024 21:47 utc | 152

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Aug 12 2024 21:38 utc | 148
The bottleneck was never about building fortifications. The border is too large. It’s not like they have a battalion for every 2, 4 or even 5 kilometers.
It has to be done smart. Small mobile ATGM teams to cover fields and roads and villages (preferably layered), some drone teams to recon the fields and roads. In this case, there were only a few conscripts on the border checkpoint, and some militias, which did manage to hold Sudzha for 6 days at least.
Obviously, such teams were deployed but only some days after the attack happened. All the mass hype about ‘capturing one thousand square kilometers’ were based on a few AFU vehicles driving through undefended territory. Naturally they were defeated and the pocket is slowly squeezing-collapsing back toward Sudzha with the rear supplies being disrupted.
No, I don’t think AFU will ‘dig in’, because RUAF will easily find their artillery and engineering vehicles within the continuously shrinking pocket, and RUAF didn’t make too many trenches here to begin with. They can only hide in villages or woods, and that means they will be brushed out of the fields and roads and hunted down afterwards, stranded without supplies.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 12 2024 21:47 utc | 153

Unnamed | Aug 12 2024 21:47 utc | 152
Save your long winded trash. I don’t bother reading it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:49 utc | 154

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 12 2024 21:21 utc | 138
How many wake up calls do the Russians need? Like someone said on Unz (where I have to say, the quality of comments are on average not very good, but somehow actually far above the average level here), is Putin going to be finally mad for real this time? The 20th time or whatever that he’s said we’re out of patience and this time the gloves are coming off?
But the gas keeps flowing to Europe and not even are ambassadors recalled from NATO countries, much less diplomatic relations broken with them even though the Russian leadership over and over says they are in a state of war with NATO (notice the date on that article by the way – February 2023). Absolutely pathetic.

Posted by: Unnamed | Aug 12 2024 21:53 utc | 155

unimperator | Aug 12 2024 21:47 utc | 153
In the first few daysw there were reports of Russian planes and helicopters being hit, then reports of Nato air defense being hit and now no more reports on Russian planes being hit.
Same has happened I think to all nato heavy weapons. All or mostly all destroyed within the zone which leaves just light infantry.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:54 utc | 156

88D chess, here. Encouraging the Ukrainians to invade. Oh…but congrats, we stopped them! Have a participation ribbon now.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 12 2024 21:55 utc | 157

Anyway in an attempt to get constructive, I think it’s pretty bloody horrific that my country blocks a website that would allow you to send relief to the suffering in the Donbass region.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 12 2024 21:55 utc | 158

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:49 utc | 154
I couldn’t care less. You are an alcoholic narcissist and my posts are not intended to somehow “fix” you, but to expose you for the hypocritical piece of trash you are.

Posted by: Unnamed | Aug 12 2024 21:55 utc | 159

I think Rus Mod is watching a larger force that will operate in conjunction with the f-16’s in another sector.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:10 utc | 127

A reasonable assumption to make if you are willing to grant NATO a degree of competence that is not in demonstrated by evidence.

Posted by: too scents | Aug 12 2024 21:56 utc | 160

too scents | Aug 12 2024 21:56 utc | 160
This is the fourth Nato Grande Armée. I tend to live and learn.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 21:59 utc | 161

A last ditch PR exercise by Ukraine. Wasting 2 brigades and all paratroopers for a propaganda stunt is beyond insane. Obviously it’s a suicide mission.
Russia should attack supply routes and flanks of Ukrainian columns. That can harvest a few thousand Ukies.
The elephant in the room is Russia failed to have defenses in place, failed to detect Ukie gathering in the region and also failed to mobilize troops fast enough to counter the terrorist incursion.
This is an attack on civilians and the response should be along the same lines.

Posted by: Jason | Aug 12 2024 22:01 utc | 162

Jason | Aug 12 2024 22:01 utc | 162
The mighty armchair general. Nukem, Nukem.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 22:04 utc | 163

A Chinese volunteer in the ranks of the Russian army in the SMO zone in Ukraine

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 12 2024 22:09 utc | 164

The West is again escalating because it can.
We must admit their plan to use Ukrainins as cannon fodder was genial.
This war cost them peanuts.
I see no evidence that the west cannot finance the war. We see that all US vassal states are ready to sacrifice their economy for the Hegemon.

Posted by: vargas | Aug 12 2024 22:10 utc | 165

Looting, Murders, Kidnappings : Civilians Testify About Ukrainian War Crimes In Kursk
Numerous war crimes committed by soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Russian Kursk region were recently revealed. They seize residential buildings, loot, kidnap volunteers and attack local civilians.
The victims of the deliberate attacks include the ambulance crew, which was hit by a drone; civilian cars were shot during the evacuation, at least one pregnant woman died in her car during the attack. The Ukrainian military opened fire on civilians trying to take refuge in a local monastery. One of the military reporters was also heavily wounded as a result of a precision drone strike, the attack on which the Ukrainian military proudly declared, not shying away from the crime.
According to official data, as a result of attacks by the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Kursk region, at least 12 civilians have been killed in the region since August 6. 121 people were wounded. The fate of many residents of the border areas remains unknown.
The Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation is recording the facts of targeted attacks by the Ukrainian military on the lives of civilians and civilian facilities in the Kursk region. It confirmed that the Armed Forces of Ukraine opened fire on civilians, for example on the territory of the Gornalsky Belogorsky Monastery, which is located in the border area of the Kursk region — near the city of Sudzha.
At least one of the AFU fighters detained by the FSB in the Kursk region admitted that he and his comrades were given a specific task to shoot civilians in the region if they resist. The Ukrainian soldier also said that they were actively engaged in looting in the Russian border region.
The Commissioner for Human Rights in the Russian Federation has sent an appeal to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights demanding to condemn acts of terrorism emanating from Ukraine and to call for measures to prevent mass violations of human rights.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 12 2024 22:13 utc | 166

The West is again escalating because it can.
Posted by: vargas | Aug 12 2024 22:10 utc | 165

The West is escalating because it must!
Aug 12 2:00 PM Treasury Budget for July -$243.7B

Posted by: too scents | Aug 12 2024 22:13 utc | 167

On that note, where are the F-16s? Surely this Ukrainian incursion would benefit from air support …
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 12 2024 19:23 utc | 63
_______________________________
F-16 pilot and maintenance training.
CTPAHA.UA August 12
Ukraine may hire retired American F-16 pilots.
This statement was made by US Senator Lindsey Graham, who is in Kyiv.
“Retired F-16 pilots who want to fight for freedom can be hired by Ukraine. The Ukrainians will look to NATO countries for ready pilots who have retired to help them until Ukraine trains its pilots. So Kyiv will be able to use the F-16s from allies earlier while its pilots are being trained. I’m going to raise that. I’m going to ask President Biden, ‘Before you leave office, make sure that invitation is extended,'” Graham said.
May 23, 2024 – Air & Space Forces Magazine
“A small number of pilots have finished their U.S.-based training and moved forward to the next portion of training outside the United States,” Dietz said. “Additional Ukrainian pilots continue to train in Arizona. While I cannot confirm specific details regarding the training schedules and locations of individual pilots, I can assure you that we continue to work closely with our Ukrainian partners to enhance their operational readiness and interoperability within NATO standards.”
Ukraine seeks retired F-16 pilots to fly its jets while it trains new pilots
KSBY Aug. 12, 2024
The first of 10 F-16s arrived in Ukraine at the end of July. Double that number should be flying by the end of this year. But the pipeline for training Ukrainian pilots is a narrow one.
U.S. officials say only 20 airmen in U.S., Dutch and Danish training programs are expected to be ready to fly this year. Experts say you typically need two pilots for every aircraft.
Kyiv has indicated that some of the aircraft will be stored at bases outside Ukraine’s borders to protect the aircraft.

Posted by: Contrarian | Aug 12 2024 22:13 utc | 168

Possible aftermath of 70 Isreali/us sf in Yemen
https://x.com/seriouspi/status/1821759074490577039

Posted by: Feck | Aug 12 2024 22:21 utc | 169

Posted by: Unnamed | Aug 12 2024 21:53 utc | 155
The oil still flows because of russias habit of fulfilling contracts. Besides turning off the oil just makes enemies out of those who just wanna live their lives,as best they can. Its also a very anti human tactic, which Russia isnt. Thats my take anyways.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 12 2024 22:24 utc | 170

Posted by: Contrarian | Aug 12 2024 22:13 utc | 168
“This statement was made by US Senator Lindsey Graham, who is in Kyiv.”
Does Russia know exactly where? I hope so.
Paging Mr.Kinzhal…..
I would not normally wish death on anyone, but for Graham, I make an exception as he is a psychopath encouraging murdering civilians, opposition, and basically anyone he does not like. POS should be pink mist.

Posted by: saner | Aug 12 2024 22:24 utc | 171

“Russia claims…Russia claims…Russia claims…” Russian claims are no better than Ukrainian claims. The war drags on when experts said it would be over by fall 2023. Russia needs to “put up or shut up”…and get this over with ASAP.

Posted by: Cesar Jeopardy | Aug 12 2024 22:31 utc | 172

God save Russia and what it stands for but things are not looking up. Its not going well, mass evacuations and many prisoners and hostages taken. And no, for every video of one side there is as much from the other so that is no evidence of anything. Internet commentators are also not the ones we should be forming opinions from.
Reality is that we are close to a week in this excursion and there is no indication Russia can handle it. It is taking too long.
NATO is achieving their goal which is to force Russia to expose why they cant defend their own territory and, what would be normal for a powerful entity, strike in retaliation so hard that noone can even think of doing this again.
I dont know the reason really, but a few more days of this disaster and we may find out by the way the Kremlin reacts to developments.
The fact of the matter is that Russia miscalculated at the beginning and has taken the whole world hostage to make a point which their government is frankly failing to make. Behaving like a superpower but not having the goods for it. Economically yes, they do, but militarily its just been one after the other disaster.

Posted by: alek_a | Aug 12 2024 22:32 utc | 173

saner | Aug 12 2024 22:24 utc | 171
There is the vermin that need to be treated as such, then there is the brainwashed fools. The vermin require eradication.
The brainwashed fools, I cant feel sympathy or empathy, but I do feel its a bit sad they have allowed themselves to be destroyed while fighting on behalf of the vermin.
Vermin like Graham, and there is many of them, Biden regardless his current condition but simply too many to name. An elite class. They are responsible for the killing of not just those they attack, but also the brainwashing of fools who are also destroyed.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 22:34 utc | 174

U.S. Government just disclosed for July:
Deficit (shortage of cash) $244 BILLION
Interest on Debt $ 88 BILLION
Annualized $3 Trillion Deficit, $1 Trillion interest.
Yesiree. That Fly Swatter Dutchman sure can do math.
And Ukeville and Small-Hat-Sizeland sure picked a smart Uncle Sugar.

Posted by: kupkee | Aug 12 2024 22:35 utc | 175

alek_a | Aug 12 2024 22:32 utc | 173
Piss of jerk. You’re mighty Nato Grande Armée will be destroyed just as the others were.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 22:36 utc | 176

‘We see that all US vassal states are ready to sacrifice their economy for the Hegemon.’
Posted by: vargas | Aug 12 2024 22:10 utc | 165
No. We don’t.(full stop)
As soon as I have the opportunity to vote out the current batch of Nazi ‘standing ovating’ parliamentary, US vassal, bastards- I will do so. Sadly- I suspect that it will have little effect. Such are the times where the virtue-Justice is just beyond ones fingertips…
“Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for?” (RB)
Original newbie (that you know and love:-)

Posted by: newbie | Aug 12 2024 22:37 utc | 177

@70
The armor spear for the Germans from the 1944 Ardennes was 10SS Panzer, led by Peiper, unlike the 1940 version, 10 Panzer was stopped from acquiring any river crossings by disparate U.S. infantry, and a combat engineer battalion. The engineers blew bridges, and culverts forcing Peiper to change routes and lose time and spend fuel and ammunition.
An auditorium at Ft Belvoir, Virginia is named Essayons, the appellation Peiper had for that battalion: damned engineers.

Posted by: paddy | Aug 12 2024 22:39 utc | 178

Many thanks, B! Also to the real barflies providing not only relevant news but rather regularly additional humour, wisdom and humanity.
According USkraine I agree to those claiming the desaster´s last stage has begun and will increase quickly now. Last not least because there´s nearly no (real) money left to be burnt, leaving resources aside.
Wishing a good night, especially to “our” fighters.

Posted by: Blue Angel | Aug 12 2024 22:46 utc | 179

…units that don’t surrender will be destroyed….
From some of the telegram I’ve read, the Russians are in no mind to take prisoners. You invade Mother Russia, you die.
There’s enough Ukrainian POW to trade out for the Russian border militia captured.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 12 2024 22:52 utc | 180

HB_Norica | Aug 12 2024 19:01 utc | 47
*** Money IS a problem for Ukraine. The mafia is financing their war. They’ve been stripped of their assets. These mafia fuckers are just giggling because they have Russian Slavs killing Russian Slavs. If Ukrainains stop killing Russians the mafia stops funding, calls in the debt and the economy collapses. Ukraine become another Syria.***
Suddenly flattening Tel Aviv and its suburbs would surely be a major contribution to peace in Ukraine.

Posted by: Cynic | Aug 12 2024 22:54 utc | 181

Melaleuca | Aug 12 2024 22:52 utc | 180
I watch the way the Ukrainians went ito self destruct mode after US/UK installed their candidates.
Now I watch the way US have gone big time in North Australia building up for the war on China. Sad times coming I think. A pity more Aussies are not awake to what US is doing.
Instead they look fearfully at China.
Those yank bases along with oz bases are now all strategic targets.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 23:03 utc | 182

Posted by: Jason | Aug 12 2024 22:01 utc | 162
###########
No. Never sink to the level of your psychopathic Zionist opponents.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 12 2024 23:04 utc | 183

canuck | Aug 12 2024 19:49 utc | 74
*** He’s probably a scared conscript kid just unfortunate enough to be serving in a Nazi army and now his life has been ruined; not a context for mirth.***
Deserves no sympathy since he was happily (probably experienced) part of an attack force intended to butcher civilians — but unluckily for him, he encountered an Angol grinder.

Posted by: Cynic | Aug 12 2024 23:07 utc | 184

@168
Pilots per aircraft are assigned based on how many sorties per day. It is the physical limits of high g force flying.
That said USAF F-16 are broke down 50% of the time.
That 20 is now 10. Skills and lots of stuff are needed to turn around the aircraft for the next flight.
If Ukraine needs 5 pilots I would be satisfied.

Posted by: paddy | Aug 12 2024 23:08 utc | 185

1. Message to Z from Lindsey. Don’t send anymore underage teenage boys to the front.
2. Message to Netanyahu from the Houthi (and friends)
I’ll see your 1 and raise you 70.

Posted by: kupkee | Aug 12 2024 23:12 utc | 186

It be very intresting find why the ukrane atack failed. at start looked impressing but as they say now run out of steem.
Posted by: Fyador | Aug 12 2024 21:28 utc | 143
The right question is: why do nato and the ukronazis thought that it could succeed.
With 10’000 soldiers, without air cover…
My guess: the western Uebermenschen still see the Russian as Untermenschen. Or/and they believe their own lies.
I think the Russians set a trap, and those stupid ukronazis and nato supporters fell for it.
Now the collapse will come earlier.
About trolls: the Godwin’s law is obsolete, for nazis are active in Ukraine and it is not possible anymore to avoid the use of the nazi word.
The new law, which I will name “moon’s law” is this: the more desperate the situation on the nazi side is, the more trolls will become active with their lies.
So welcome to the trolls!

Posted by: Naive | Aug 12 2024 23:14 utc | 187

Cynic | Aug 12 2024 23:07 utc | 184
Yep. All prisoners suddenly become truck drivers or cooks. There was one clown in this mighty nato offensive claimed he was conscripted and didn’t want to fight, so the Russians show him a video he had posted to social smiling and boasting about killing moscals.
There are some genuine conscripts that surrender but they are general thrown into frontline trenches as cannon fodder – not used in an escapade like this.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 23:18 utc | 188

Posted by: paddy | Aug 12 2024 22:39 utc | 178
Several times he was also delayed by P-47’s attacks, allowing the engineers, on at least one occasion, time to blow the bridge. Didn’t help that the King Tigers trailing behind churned the roads up, causing his supply trucks real issues. Things got so bad he had to drain the Pz4 tanks to keep his Panthers running!
He would have been better off helping the 12th SS Panzer take the Elsenborn ridge, that might have quite literally ‘changed the course of history’.

Posted by: Milites | Aug 12 2024 23:23 utc | 189

I’ll see your 1 and raise you 70.
Posted by: kupkee | Aug 12 2024 23:12 utc | 186
Those Houti’s are as bad as the Chechens 🙂

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 23:25 utc | 190

From some of the telegram I’ve read, the Russians are in no mind to take prisoners. You invade Mother Russia, you die.
There’s enough Ukrainian POW to trade out for the Russian border militia captured.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 12 2024 22:52 utc | 180

There are already some prisoners, they are well treated as far we could see. Some have no choice or they will be killed in the back. Russia has no reason to begin not to respect the Geneva conventions. Now if a prisoner comitted a war crime, he will be sentenced to a long term in a penitential colony.

Posted by: Naive | Aug 12 2024 23:26 utc | 191

Posted by: Unnamed | Aug 12 2024 21:47 utc | 152
Look Peter is inclined to get angry but he is an excellent contributor all the same. You are quite wrong about Australia. We must watch carefully as our government have tied us to the anti China alliance. If (I sort of think when) hot war breaks out between the USA and China we will be if not the first tier but certainly the second tier nuclear target (US bases) and most of our coastline via conventional attack.
As for being a troll etc, many of us on this site are fed up with the constant call of be aggressive, destroy, destroy, drop nukes, kill kill that come from many on this site. Now experience has shown us that many even most of these are in fact trolling, deliberate psy-ops designed to sow distrust in the Russian regime and also to encourage Russia to step over the line and allow NATO to directly attack.
Others probably are not trolls but are US/western types used to US style blitz destruction as the norm. From fire bombing of Japan and Germany, nukes on Japan, napalm and agent orange in Vietnam, total destruction in Falujah and Mosul, and in Libya, that is the US way of war. These types seem unable to grasp that while that method of destruction works when you are a long distance imperialist power, it is foolish when dealing close to hope, especially where your own citizens share family relations and friends. It is even dangerous long term for the USA because it creates so much bad blood, but for Russia, the last thing it needs is a very hostile population along its very long borders or worse within its own territory.
The USA and even UK have not been invaded seriously for 1000 years. They have no folk memory of such. This absence of awareness makes them heedless of the danger of blowback.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 12 2024 23:26 utc | 192

He’s probably a scared conscript kid just unfortunate enough to be serving in a Nazi army and now his life has been ruined; not a context for mirth.
To make fun of him with your joke is not cool.
Posted by: canuck | Aug 12 2024 19:49 utc | 74

Most likely he is a fantasy character, pulled out of the writer’s ass to embellish a story full of other lies.

Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 12 2024 23:28 utc | 193

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 12 2024 22:24 utc | 170
Here is what that gets you:
1) European populations who get to wallow in ever shriller hatred of Russia, while continuing to enjoy relatively comfortable living standards. Every day that passes they shed a little more of the doubt that this arrangement is too good to be true. (It is by the way a myth that anti-Russian sentiment is confined to the political elites. In Sweden, for example, there is consistent 80% support for sending weapons to Ukraine, and slightly lower for sending troops there.)
Energy prices spiked in 2022, and there was real fear of freezing in the dark in many places, but prices have since then mostly normalized, to the point that they are only a real problem for the poorest segments of society (ironically the segment that is least likely to hold anti-Russian sentiments in most European countries). The EU incidentally solved its gas crisis by massive stockpiling of gas that Russia was happy to keep sending them (largely through Ukraine, no less).
2) European governments who demonize Russia every minute of every day, send weapons that kill Russians (including civilians) and laugh and mock the Russians about it, while still getting everything they need from Russia to keep their industries going (including arms, steel, chemical industries). It’s true that there is deindustralization in for example Germany, but it’s not happening at nearly the pace what it should be, mainly due to the stabilization of energy prices (which Russia moved heaven and earth to help accomplish).
Add to this that while they get whatever they need from Russia no matter what they do them or how much they insult them, on the other side there is the United States, which will threaten to kill your entire family (and won’t hesitate to go through with it, if necessary) if you don’t go along with the program. Not much of a dilemma there.
As an aside: I used to regularly read Der Spiegel, including their comment sections, before the current war broke but after the Crimean crisis in 2014 and the beginning of anti-Russian sanctions. The readership of Der Spiegel is overwhelmingly upper middle class and liberal, and whenever there were articles disparaging Russia in general, or calling for sanctions in areas that wouldn’t affect Germany directly, there was almost universal agreement in the comment section that the Russians were barbarians who should be crushed like bugs.
Then there were would be articles about for example cancelling Nordstream 2, because of the “dependence” to Russia that this saddled Germany with. Suddenly the tone in the comment section would be completely different. They would be filled with calls to remember German national interests, that cancellation of Nordstream 2 was an American trap to replace cheap Russian pipeline gas with expensive LNG, that it was a conspiracy to destroy the foundations for German industry and prosperity, and so on. Comments in opposition to this were in the minority and mostly downvoted. Obviously, self-interest suddenly kicked in.
After 2022, the Germans, like everyone else, gradually understood that you can have both: Open war with Russia and openly genocidal race hatred against Russians on the one hand, but at the same time continue to get relatively cheap oil and gas from Russia.
I have never again seen a comment section on Der Spiegel’s site where the war and the sanctions against Russia aren’t universally lauded and doubt there ever will be. (The same is true for all German media, to a large extent even alternative media like Telepolis.)
This is all also beside the issue of “pacta sunt servanda”, which you are referring to. What does it say about Russia if it “sticks to their part of the contract” with a counterpart that is openly sending missiles and drones to attack their cities, their oil refineries, their nuclear bomber bases, their anti-ICBM early warning systems, and so on, and who go out of their way to encourage and praise Ukraine for using the missiles they send to strike targets deep inside Russia, and revels in the deaths of Russian soldiers (and civilians, who deserve it for not opposing their evil dictator and the war enough)?
To a large extent they are not even paying Russia for the oil and gas they are currently receiving (there is a right now a court case where OMV is sued for planning to pay Gazprom for gas it received, with the money that would have gone to Gazprom instead being paid to companies that refused to pay for the gas).
And most importantly: The EU and the USA have also frozen and then proceeded to steal 400 billion dollars from Russia, the bulk of which comes from past payments for oil and gas to Russia. Any person who continues to “honor” “their side” of such contract is a fool, and will (rightly) be treated as such.
Compare this to Iran, which (completely reasonably) abandonded their obligations under the JCPOA when the USA effectively abandoned the treaty by reintroducing sanctions, and the EU countries also broke off commercial relations (and later reintroduced sanctions as well) with the excuse that they couldn’t go against America. With your reasoning, Iran should – as the West by the way, competely shamelessly, demands of them – continue to honor their obligations under the treaty even as the West insists they don’t have to honor theirs. The Iranians are made of different stuff however, and that is by the way one reason there is begrudging respect (but still hatred, of course) for Iran in the West that there just isn’t for Russia (there was, of course, during the Soviet era).
You could also make a comparison with China, which was slapped with EU tariffs on its car exports to the bloc by the American puppet Ursula von der Leyen. China hasn’t so far responded with symmetrical counter-tariffs on European cars (it could even be argued that they don’t need to, since market shares of European brand cars, much less European-made cars, are plummeting in China anyway), but they immediately hit the EU back at its weakest points: Agricultural exports in general and in particular cognac exports from France. The result is very unhappy, highly influential agricultural lobbies mainly in a right now quite vulnerable and chaotic EU country (France), whose businesses are already under immense pressure.
Like it or not, the West respects strength and defiance and they don’t respect people who grovel at their feet and beg to be accepted even as you kick them in the ribs and humiliate and abuse them in every way you can think of.

Posted by: Unnamed | Aug 12 2024 23:30 utc | 194

“To make fun of him with your joke is not cool.”
Posted by: canuck | Aug 12 2024 19:49 utc | 74
Point noted again. I personally have decided to restrain my sarcasm and reactionary humor due to your gentle prompting. Peace.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Aug 12 2024 23:31 utc | 195

As for being a troll etc, many of us on this site are fed up with the constant call of be aggressive, destroy, destroy, drop nukes, kill kill that come from many on this site. Now experience has shown us that many even most of these are in fact trolling, deliberate psy-ops designed to sow distrust in the Russian regime and also to encourage Russia to step over the line and allow NATO to directly attack.
Posted by: watcher | Aug 12 2024 23:26 utc | 192

I agree. One explanation: most western people are racist, they think that they have more rights than others, that they are civilized when they loot, kill and genocide people of the rest of the world and all that in the name of “human values”. When they reversed all the values.
One Frenchman said the France is the country of the human rights. He was corrected: France is the country of the declaration of the human rights. A big difference.

Posted by: Naive | Aug 12 2024 23:38 utc | 196

Bringing this one from the other thread (where I was, as usual) doing my math.
So yes, all the newbies before this post aren’t mine and should be IP banned (though VPN might save them)
As I mentioned, I was occupied making some calculations and didn’t notice B had declared the reversal (that
goes in the same sense of my table)
Still my old post still stands am proves who’s who in this true troll/handle hijack fest.
Thanks to all holding the line, despair in the nato side must be something to see so many kamikaze here….
start repost”
Now, we’re under full troll attack but it’s only expected
first of all, thank you to down south for updates, milites for some good sense and some others for beating the trolls (though I think they are best ignored)
Today I’m going for a simple synthesis:
1. Nuclear power plants=clear threat of nuclear terrorism, ZNPP is a last request for better termes, KNPP was the big bang and it failed and RF is building a line to assure it remains a failure, see 2
2. D1, D2, etc the situation remains unclear but this is my best bet
Day august min max 404dream max goal
0 6 12 24 12 24 Sudzha
1,5 7,5 15 30 15 30
3 9 18 36 18 36
4,5 10,5 15 30 21 42 Art.KNPP
6 12 12 24 24 48
7,5 13,5 9 18 27 54
9 15 6 12 30 60 KNPP
10,5 16,5 3 6 33 66
12 18 0 0 36 72 Art.Kursk
Art. means artillery range and attack
And as we see the objectives were failed and would bet Sudzha will be liberated in less than 2 days
Min is the entrenched AFU, Max their effective derangement raid
3. Expect not a the clearing presented above but the creation of a cauldron instead if RF is wise
4. Someone mentioned Sterling Bridge somewhere, if that is the case then instead of a mini cauldron we might be see major straightening of current border lines
5. I’ve seen, but only prints in russian of AFU mobilization, can anybody get me tabbed info? It points maybe to 750k to 800k AFU KIA but need the data (so far the posted analysis is within my old analysis)
Yours truly, the regular Newbie you all know
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 12 2024 22:35 utc | 599
“end repost
By the fruit you can recognize the tree (and who’s the real Newbie)
P.S. B, if you can nuke at least a part of these trolls we’d be grateful, but if circumstances don’t allow we’ll hold as good as we can. Be well and be back ASAP

Posted by: Newbie | Aug 12 2024 23:40 utc | 197

Posted by: watcher | Aug 12 2024 23:26 utc | 192

Excellent summary, thank you!
Some of the nuclear doomers may even be genuine, who knows. I’ve made the mistake myself of trying to reason with them. Not possible, not necessary and in fact, as you explain, harmful.
You seem quite sure that the Big War (US+ vs China+) is unavoidable. That pains me because in the last few months, I finally understood that the big war is definitely an option for at least one faction ruling the West. I don’t think it is decided yet but it looks to me as if this round of capitalism needs a very global war to get another turn — Covid+measures was a nice try but ultimately too small. (And this point is not even about a uni/multipolar world, just about keeping the capitalist cycle turning.)
What you say about Australia is also visible in Europe. There is very clear war preparation going on, targeting the brains of ca. 2030 with demonisation (5 minutes of Putin hate), getting back conscription, shaming defeatists/pacifists, Kanonen statt Butter (spending on military while cutting on social spending and investments).
One pet idea of mine: when in ten or so years, France, Poland and Germany are armed to the teeth then it may happen that the most natural war is not against Russia but against a smaller neighbour — it’s the natural thing to do if you think in terms of <20th century: these armies are bloody expensive and return of investment demands nice, clean, quick wins.

Posted by: Konami | Aug 12 2024 23:42 utc | 198

Posted by: boneless | Aug 12 2024 21:46 utc | 151
The phrase originally came from the term used for a Red Army recce patrol, behind German lines, or a ‘Hunt’. If they were conducting a surprise raid, to capture an ‘information prisoner’, or ‘tongue’, then the members of that party were called ‘hunters’. IIRC, a month ago a Ukrainian DRG was ambushed near Sumy, so I was wondering aloud if a tongue had been taken did they say anything about the Kursk operation.

Posted by: Milites | Aug 12 2024 23:45 utc | 199

Konami | Aug 12 2024 23:42 utc | 198
Europe returning to its Idlib days. Yep, that’s brewing and will soon come to the boil.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 12 2024 23:46 utc | 200