Ukraine SitRep: Patriot Airdefense System Vs. Ukrainian F-16 - 1:0
Ukraine had received 6 F-16 fighter jets. On Monday, during a mass Russian missile and drone attack, 16.7% of them came down. A local administration was first to announce the death of its pilot.
The F-16 trained pilots, not the airplanes, are a resource that is missing most in Ukraine.
There were various theories how the plane was terminated. The Ukrainian Air Force Command made a hero out of its pilot. Stephen Bryen is quoting the Russian source Rybar:
The Ukrainian Air Force Command has released an official obituary for pilot Oleksii Mesia, who was flying an F-16 fighter jet.According to the text, the fighter he was piloting was hunting Russian cruise missiles and kamikaze drones during the massive missile strike on August 26. It claims he shot down three cruise missiles and one UAV, but was killed himself. This wording suggests that the F-16 either was shot down by Ukraine's own air defenses, which were also engaging the missiles and drones, or crashed into one of the aerial targets, which has happened before.
However parliament member Mariana Bezuglaya, known for her previous criticism of General Zaluzny and other military staff, has claimed that the F-16 was shot down as a result of "friendly fire" (machine translation):
Bezuglaya wrote about this in her Telegram channel."According to my information, the F-16 of Ukrainian pilot Oleksiy "Moonfish" Mesya was shot down by a Patriot anti-aircraft missile system due to discoordination between units.
The reports noted that he "failed to manage". The event occurred during one of the most powerful air attacks of the Russians on August 26.
War is war, such episodes are possible. But the culture of lies in the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as in other top military staffs, leads to the fact that the system of managing military decisions does not improve based on truthful, consistently collected analytics, but worsens and even collapses, as it happens in the West. Pokrovsky direction. And none of the generals are punished. General Oleschuk remains in office," Bezuglaya wrote.
Mariana Bezuglaya gets fed the details for such allegations from someone high up in the government or military.
The original assumption was that she was a tool of Andrei Yermak, the man who directs the presidential office and is who is brain behind Zelenski.
However, Strana writes today that someone else is likely handling her (machine translation):
Today, Air Force Commander Mykola Oleshchuk commented on the criticism of MP Maryana Bezuglaya of the AFU command, as well as her dissemination of information about various failures of the Ukrainian military, and said that some people "chose" her "as a tool to discredit the top military leadership ." Oleshchuk also warned that " it will not be possible to hang all the dogs on the army."What kind of people are these who use Bezuglaya as a tool to "hang all the dogs" on the military, Oleshchuk did not specify.
But in political circles, it has long been widely believed that Bezuglaya is the mouthpiece of the President's Office and voices about the military what Bankovaya [, the seat of the the Ukrainian government,] herself cannot say for various reasons.
...
And when Bezuglaya began to criticize the new commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Alexander Syrsky, many regarded this as a sign: Bankovaya was already dissatisfied with him.
That however turned out to be false. Syrski was recently promoted to become a full 4 star general.
Therefore, Bezuglaya's campaign (and not only her) against the current commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and his associates, unlike the times on the eve of Zaluzhny's dismissal, is more like an attempt by some forces to "shoot down" Syrsky in order to take his place.In this regard, it is worth recalling that according to one of the versions that we have already written about, Bezuglaya focuses not on Yermak, but on another influential representative of Zelensky's inner circle - the head of the GUR Kirill Budanov.
It was Budanov who was considered as one of the main candidates for the post of Commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the eve of Zaluzhny's resignation. However, in the end, he lost the" casting" to Syrsky, but it is likely that he did not give up his ambitions.
And it cannot be ruled out that Bezuglaya is still helping him to get closer to his cherished goal – to become the commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian army.
Budanov, the head of the military intelligence service, is the man who did not shy away from directing a terror campaign against prominent Russians like Darya Dugina.
He is ruthless.
His interventions via Mariana Bezuglaya are also somewhat successful:
DD Geopolitics @DD_Geopolitics - 17:09 UTC · Aug 30, 2024🇺🇦 BREAKING! Zelensky has dismissed the Commander of the Ukrainian Air Force, Oleshchuk.
The corresponding decree was published on the website of the Ukrainian President's Office.
The F-16 saga keeps getting more and more interesting ...
Deconflicting the airspace between ground based air-defenses and ones own pilots when under attack is quite difficult and requires very detailed coordination. Ukraine has probably only a few men who were trained in it. It is thus highly likely that a Patriot or some other air defense system took the F-16 down.
It is a huge problem and lying about it makes it worse.
Posted by b on August 30, 2024 at 17:59 UTC | Permalink
next page »I'm losing track of what wunderwaffen number we are up to being depleted by the Nazi hoards.
Javelin
M777
Abrams
Bradleys
Himars
Strikers
Patriots
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Aug 30 2024 18:09 utc | 2
I’ve seen some commentary on other forums suggesting that it should be impossible for a Patriot to shoot down an F-16 due to the “Friend or Foe” identifying system.
However, there was a response that pointed out that both the F-16 and Patriot have come from different European nations, rather than being kit directly supplied from the US and speculated there may have been some incompatibility between the European specifications, ultimately leading to the shoot-down.
Don’t know if this is true but certainly seemed plausible to me.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 18:14 utc | 3
I'm guessing this is just the beginning of the F16 woes. If Ukraine can't get this right, what other fatal cock ups await?
Posted by: Truthsayer | Aug 30 2024 18:18 utc | 4
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Aug 30 2024 18:09 utc | 2
Don’t forget muh Challengers! Oh, and those weird wheeled French things.
As you say though, easy to lose count.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 18:18 utc | 5
An American Patriot Missile battery, sent to Ukraine by the U.$. Government, manned by American servicemen, sent to Ukraine by the U.$ Government, shot down and American F16 sent to Ukraine by the U.$. Government; to fight in a war started by the U.$. Government.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 18:21 utc | 6
Zelensky has dismissed the Commander of the Ukrainian Air Force, Oleshchuk.
The corresponding decree was published on the website of the Ukrainian President's Office.
https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1829567156863848622
Posted by: guest | Aug 30 2024 18:24 utc | 7
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 18:21 utc | 6
But were they American? Sure, at source, but I thought the Patriot was from Germany and the F-16 from either Denmark or The Netherlands. Who knows what specification tweaks were applied to these ‘export’ versions?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 18:29 utc | 8
I see almost all comments are just uncritically accepting the “story” that friendly fire brought down the first F16.
While it can’t be ruled out, I am suspicious. Too much time passed between the first reports of a F16 being possibly hit on the ground by a Russian missile and the story coming out (4 days.) plenty of time for handlers in the US to concoct a cover up!
The only counter argument is that the cover story is perhaps even more embarrassing than simply admitting it was hit on the ground.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Aug 30 2024 18:31 utc | 9
@3
NATO standardization has been around for decades.
There should be compatible tactics techniques and procedures (TTP)to integrate the multiple source sensors with the command and control segments and the engagement sensors and weapons in the air defense battle management systems.
IFF (also NATO common Link 16 data and voice link) has a place, aircraft installed radar warning (ALR 69) systems have a place, and humans in the loop.
TTP, sensors, command and control, human in the loop, the aircraft and the pilot can be root cause.
I continue to include engine failure until air defense records are thoroughly reviewed.
Posted by: paddy | Aug 30 2024 18:31 utc | 10
@Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 18:29 utc | 8
It doesn't matter. All American decisions.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 18:33 utc | 11
1. Has UKR admitted the loss of the plane yet? (not the pilot but the plane?)
2. Did Zelensky explicitly connect the firing with the pilot death? (Not saying there's no connection, just curious if he said so.) Also, I find it unlikely that he would fire this air force commander because of losing one plane/pilot. More likely that he had general problems with the guy and this was the last straw (or the fig leaf to cover a general tension). That is unless there's something very explicit that came to light, in connection with the loss of the pilot. Like corruption or mutiny (more than the norm).
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 18:45 utc | 12
NATO standardization has been around for decades.
Posted by: paddy | Aug 30 2024 18:31 utc | 10
Mmmm... how well is that enforced in practice though? Fairly early on in the SMO, I remember reading complaints from Ukrainian forces that batches of 155mm shells from one NATO country didn’t work properly when used in a barrel provided by a different NATO country.
We could also raise a question about how diligently various European recipients of US equipment are in applying any software updates. Seen it happen in the IT industry all too often, one party assumes everyone else is fully compatible and compliant; suddenly a lot of midnight oil is getting burnt...
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 18:49 utc | 13
@Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 18:45 utc | 12
🇷🇺🇺🇦❗️The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine officially confirmed the loss of Ukraine's first F-16 fighterhttps://t.me/intelslava/65672
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 18:50 utc | 14
Credits to Milites in yesterday's thread for explaining how easy it is for ground forces to take out their own air force.
You coordinate with the ground - the airplane is going to be here, don't shoot there. You also need proper interpretation of IFF, some generations of Patriot software having problems. There are also human operators who can make mistakes. In Ukraine that would be US personnel.
His reference to a David Saxe article about the Patriots being a threat to US fighters was illuminating. In Iraq one US fighter took out the Patriot radar tracking him, injuring no one except someone's pride.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 30 2024 18:52 utc | 15
Its a problem for Ukraine Regime and their backers. Everything is untangling now.
Most of those invaders of Russian Kursk region are going to die. Probably over 6k dead already. No open supply lines means tgey run out of everything.
Posted by: Áobh Ó'Sheachnasaigh | Aug 30 2024 18:57 utc | 16
Not sure if I believe it was a Patriot. Truth will be apparent if it becomes known exactly where the F16 pieces are found (e.g. at an airport/hanger or in an open field somewhere) Also, seems to me the F16 would be chasing a Geranium while the Patriot would be targeting something faster (which *could* have been the F16 - we'll see) - what else was in the air at the time of F16 went down? No doubt the Russians know these details. For the Ukr the big loss is of course the pilot. But who is to say that from now on they won't be NATO pilots on leave? And the "six F16" magically could become however F16s are in the NATO hangers...?
Posted by: Simpleton | Aug 30 2024 19:02 utc | 17
Norwegian:
Doesn't answer my question, which is if UKR acknowledged the loss:
"The first Ukrainian F-16 has been destroyed — WSJ, citing an official US representative."
WSJ and US representative are not UKR.
P.s. I am in now way denying that it happened. I think it's extremely likely that it did. But I'm interested in the lack of candor by the UKR officials, if they have not announced it, yet.
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 19:03 utc | 18
Stephen Bryen hypothesizes that it could have been an old Soviet AD system:
https://substack.com/@stephenbryen/p-148277590
If the above is correct, then there is a strong chance that the air defenses around Ivano-Frankivsk could have been older Russian units, as protecting the area was not a top Ukrainian military priority and the base was far from any expected Russian attack. Given this is speculative, it would follow that the F-16 with a NATO IFF would not be compatible with local air defenses using Russian IFF.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 30 2024 19:04 utc | 19
@Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 19:03 utc | 18
Don't understand why you think I didn't answer, when I linked to information saying "The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine officially confirmed the loss"
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 19:08 utc | 20
I have just one question.
Was the commander of the Ukrainian Air Force, Oleshchuk, also in charge of AD equipment?
If yes then an air defense fuck up might cost his head.
Otherwise it should be a strictly air force SNAFU.
Let us follow the later.
He wouldn't be fired for a pilot error.
He wouldn't be fired for a local error.
He wouldn't be fired for a small, difficult to find, fine detail error.
That leaves big screw ups in general policy, instructions or deployment policies.
From that I'll go for either a wrong map of no-fly (AD, probably soviet era, no IFF) zone (or even too close to RF fighters with better standoff weapons)
Or it was hit by the kinzahal and the all deployment, and ground protection, policy was wrong.
So no patriot for me, and would go for an 80% probability that a soviet/RF weapon did the first F16 in.
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 19:08 utc | 21
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 19:03 utc | 18
This may or may not meet your demand: https://ukranews.com/en/news/1030342-general-staff-confirms-loss-of-f-16-and-pilot-s-death
The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has confirmed the loss of the first F-16 fighter in Ukraine.The press service of the General Staff has reported this.
It is noted that F-16 fighters were involved in repelling the missile strike. During the aerial battle, four enemy cruise missiles were shot down.
"During the approach to the next target, contact with one of the planes was lost. As it turned out later, the plane crashed, the pilot was killed," the message reads.
To find out the causes of the accident, a special commission of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine was appointed, which works in the area where the plane crashed.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 19:09 utc | 22
An American Patriot Missile battery, sent to Ukraine by the U.$. Government, manned by American servicemen, sent to Ukraine by the U.$ Government, shot down and American F16 sent to Ukraine by the U.$. Government; to fight in a war started by the U.$. Government.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 18:21 utc | 6
_____
What better way to ensure lucrative contracts for the American armaments manufacturers?
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 30 2024 19:10 utc | 23
Zelensky has dismissed the Commander of the Ukrainian Air Force, Oleshchuk.
______
404 hadan air force? who knew?
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 30 2024 19:11 utc | 24
Posted by: Áobh Ó'Sheachnasaigh | Aug 30 2024 18:57 utc | 16
But, but dontchya know it's the greatest embarassment for Russia like, ever, and stuff? The nazis and mercenary adventurers er excuse me 'Ukrainians' are steadily pushing into Russia, it must be true, I read it wall to wall across the 'respectable' Western media. I mean, Rasputin, or something? Hot Dog Guy! Nukes! F16s! HIMARS! Reeeeeeee
Signed,
A useful idiot
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 30 2024 19:12 utc | 25
Signed,
A useful idiot
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 30 2024 19:12 utc | 25
______
An Anonymous useful idiot.
FIFY!
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 30 2024 19:14 utc | 26
I believe the Russians. Ukraine has a bad history of not telling the truth. Another Ghost of Kiev story.
The F 16 and pilot were unceremoniously blown up trying to get out of the hangar, with a Dagger thru their heart.
Posted by: golddigger | Aug 30 2024 19:16 utc | 27
What was Nikolai Oleshchuk accused of?
The Air Force Commander Nikolai Oleshchuk was fired today shortly after MP Maryana Bezuglaya said that the Ukrainian F-16 aircraft was shot down by the Ukrainian Patriot air defense system. At the same time, she harshly criticized Oleshchuk.
And this was far from the first criticism from her towards the commander of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
So, on July 3, Bezuglaya accused Oleshchuk of failing to prepare for the acceptance of the F-16.
On July 7, speaking about the Russian strikes on Myrhorod, during which Ukrainian aircraft were hit, she said that the Ukrainian generals were “using” aircraft and air defense systems with their actions. Then she said that two Patriot systems were destroyed by the Russians because they were not moved as often as necessary and were not camouflaged.
On July 10, the MP reported that the Air Force leadership was falsifying statistics on missile downings, calling those that hit American missiles «debris.»
According to her, in addition to falsifying statistics, the calculations of the Ukrainian air defense are poorly substantiated and poorly coordinated. Sometimes it happens that a Patriot missile fights a «Shahed,» «a Russian missile destroys a critical facility of critical employment worth billions.»
Bezuglaya also said that experienced fighters of mobile groups are often sent to the front in the infantry, and partially capable veterans with no experience are chosen in their place (and sometimes those who want to sit out in the rear are bribed).
She called the situation with the repair of air defense equipment «horrible.»
«Some designs of Western equipment are already all faulty. «, - the MP said.
According to her, repairs are often carried out by unauthorized firms, and the equipment breaks down again in a month or two.
Also, according to Bezugla, one of the big problems is the inability of military officials to organize even an offensive by Western means.
Finally, yesterday she reported that the F-16 was shot down by a Ukrainian missile «Petriot», and blamed Oleshchuk.
Today, Oleshchuk harshly responded to Bezugla and was fired a few hours later.
Posted by: guest | Aug 30 2024 19:18 utc | 28
Recap :: In the early hours of Monday August the 26th-2024 during the massive Russian air strikes released upon the enemy across the entire territory of country 404; the boys hit long and hard a hangar located in Ivano-Frankovsk containing freshly provided Western aircraft which was hidding two (2) F-16 and fuel tanks. All targets were struck successfuly. I published this info here before the enemy media release.
Posted by: AI | Aug 30 2024 19:19 utc | 29
Here is the reference to Milites and his link.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: paddy | Aug 29 2024 22:52 utc | 225
It’s been known to do this before.
Posted by: Milites | Aug 29 2024 23:45 utc | 231
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 30 2024 19:19 utc | 30
JRL and Norwegian, thanks.
Sorry, wasn't seeing the info until I went and got past the WSJ paywall.
Still like to see the exact official announcement itself, versus a news report citing "officials".
But again, thanks. and not meaning to kvetch. (Still seems like there's a lack of candor by the UKR regime.) But...oh well.
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 19:25 utc | 31
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 30 2024 19:04 utc | 19
Yeah.
In Italy we have a say.
La pezza è peggio del buco.
Literally it can be translated as
The patch is worst than the hole
But maybe there is a better saying in English.
Posted by: Mario | Aug 30 2024 19:30 utc | 32
"An American Patriot Missile battery, sent to Ukraine by the U.$. Government, manned by American servicemen, sent to Ukraine by the U.$ Government, shot down and American F16 sent to Ukraine by the U.$. Government; to fight in a war started by the U.$. Government."
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 18:21 utc | 6
_____
"What better way to ensure lucrative contracts for the American armaments manufacturers?"
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 30 2024 19:10 utc | 23
When I lived in NY in the early to eighties I ran into some 'entrepreneurs' who were paid by the windshield; the Jewish paymaster owned glass car windshield replacements shops on the lower West side in Manhattan .
Myself and my fiancé (never got married)has lived on 62/3rd Ave and her FRONT windshield on her Volvos broken. it wasn't Vandalism they stole her stereo stuff-but I took it down to the West side to get it reapired-it was an elaborate set up-they have five stories and elevators to service all the broken glass.
While I was waiting I sauntered over to local bar and then over a pool game with a guy- a rather seedy fellow- for $50 he paid off and I bought a round for all of us and then he told me the story AS HOW THEY FILL THOSE 5 STOREY WINDHSIELD FIX UP SHOPS by vandalism.
Not much different story than the F 16 -creative destruction for more production?
Scry
Still seems like there's a lack of candor by the UKR regime
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 19:25 utc | 31
And you’re surprised at that?
For the record, I quoted an Ukrainian news agency which, in turn, quoted a press statement from the Ukrainian General Staff. Short of a direct link to the Ukrainian GS (which I don’t have) I’m not sure what else you think you need.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 19:32 utc | 34
@malenkov | Aug 30 2024 19:10 utc | 23
What better way to ensure lucrative contracts for the American armaments manufacturers?Indeed. Many seemingly irrational decisions are explained with this in mind.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 19:33 utc | 35
I’m sticking with it being hit on the ground in the follow up strike that Russian sources originally reported. At least until there’s some evidence one way or another. The friendly fire story is marginally less embarrassing than the ground strike because it gives no credit to Russia. Friendly fire is certainly possible and likely will happen to at least one F-16 in Ukraine.
There’s no such thing as a perfect friend or foe system. Russia has apparently shot several of its own planes during this conflict and I think we can all agree that Russia likely has to r most sophisticated and advanced air defenses in the world. Patriots, on the other hand, have a reputation for not hitting the things they’re supposed to and hitting things they aren’t. It was a pretty busy evening in the skies over Ukraine too.
The real question is whether it was some well-meaning dedushka with a shotgun or a babushka with a jar of pickles.
Posted by: Lex | Aug 30 2024 19:33 utc | 36
@ canuck | Aug 30 2024 19:32 utc | 33
A bit reminiscent of the Crassus Fire Brigade, dontcha think?
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 30 2024 19:38 utc | 37
Posted by: Lex | Aug 30 2024 19:33 utc | 36
Heh, don’t rule out a Russian shovel launched to hypersonic speed by a Russian washing machine with a Mach 8 spin cycle...
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 19:39 utc | 38
Posted by: Mario | Aug 30 2024 19:30 utc | 32
“The cure is worse than the disease”.
What a bunch of morons the ukies are. Couldn’t run a piss-up in a brewery, as we say in Oz. Nevertheless, their imminent collapse remains elusive. What’s sitrep on the battle of the bulge to the north?
Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 30 2024 19:39 utc | 39
"Still seems like there's a lack of candor by the UKR regime.."
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 19:25 utc | 31
I would suggest that you are too diplomatic-your 'lack of candour' is a nuclear understatement!
1. [Canuk is Canadain and spells like his colonial master, editor]
The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has confirmed the loss of the first F-16 fighter in Ukraine.
The press service of the General Staff has reported this.
It is noted that F-16 fighters were involved in repelling the missile strike. During the aerial battle, four enemy cruise missiles were shot down.
"During the approach to the next target, contact with one of the planes was lost. As it turned out later, the plane crashed, the pilot was killed," the message reads.
To find out the causes of the accident, a special commission of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine was appointed, which works in the area where the plane crashed.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 19:09 utc | 22
-----
It claims he shot down three cruise missiles and one UAV, but was killed himself.
-----
I so love tangential analysis.
So from a grand total of 4 cruise missiles the "ghost of the patriot" shot down 3
Let us say that , as in the photo, the F16's had two long range and two short range missiles.
So two were shot (probably) by the long range ones, and with the short range ones shot another cruise missile and a drone before being shot down (or went for re-arm and met dr kinzhal)
Even if there was only a second f16 pilot (who downed the 4th cruise missile) then he didn't do much...
If they were all scrambled to intercept, then others did jack shit. (at least as far as cruise missiles are concerned)
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 19:47 utc | 41
🇺🇦 Lieutenant General Anatolii Kryvonozhko will take Oleshchuk's place and temporarily serve as the acting commander of the Ukrainian Air Force.https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/121408
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 19:47 utc | 42
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 19:47 utc | 41
TBH I filter out most of the stuff posted on the site I quoted, I was actually after the kernel of the information about the loss of the pilot, to which @Anonymous vociferously expressed his entitlement.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 19:54 utc | 43
Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 19:25 utc | 31
Not hard to do a quick search to find it announced on the official MOD facebook page.
The facebook report from the MOD is also linked in some news articles.
The MOD's official telegram is linked in the ukranews article.
It looks like you did not take a look at what was provided before replying, as it linked the official statement from the MOD.
Posted by: Rhymerez | Aug 30 2024 19:54 utc | 44
@13
@13
You are right.
What US set up in Ukraine is standard “establishing a mobile air and missile defensive system on a forward battle area”, maybe larger.
US E-3 is a core of NATO air defense battle management. NATO owns a number of E-3 AWACS, who play with USAF E-3 frequently and who stay compatible with each other and NATO air defense structures.
The kluge U.S. set up for threat warning and assessment may be mixed up. What long range sensors play and do they all use Link 16….. Then there are message format, taxonomies, data pedigree, sharing and quality.
The interfaces are numerous and you are correct software fixes are scarcely tested before going to the field.
I would say U.S./NATO have a lot of exercising to do to root out issues.
Posted by: paddy | Aug 30 2024 19:56 utc | 45
An American Patriot Missile battery, sent to the U.$.- owned Ukraine Government by the U.$. Government, manned by American servicemen, sent to Ukraine by the U.$ Government, shot down and American F16 sent to Ukraine by the U.$. Government; to fight in a war started by the U.$. Government.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 30 2024 18:21 utc | 6
There, fixed it for you!
(Brilliant comment by the way)
There's no doubt in my mind that Ukrainians were tricked into provoking Russia by the jewed-up West. Zelenski even spelt it out when he shared his dream of Ukraine becoming a 2nd "Israel".
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 30 2024 19:59 utc | 46
Hitting the plane and the pilot on the ground with a missile? Exquisite timing - or exquisite intelligence, the inside type. Ukraine is falling ever faster.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 30 2024 20:00 utc | 47
@28
"Then she said that two Patriot systems were destroyed by the Russians because they were not moved as often as necessary and were not camouflaged."
Is it yet known if RU destroyed the Patriot radar systems? Or did the strikes destroy just the launchers and not the radars?
I'm a bit behind the news curve with respect to how the Patriot systems are performing in UKR.
Posted by: GW | Aug 30 2024 20:03 utc | 48
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 19:47 utc | 41
TBH I filter out most of the stuff posted on the site I quoted, I was actually after the kernel of the information about the loss of the pilot, to which @Anonymous vociferously expressed his entitlement.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 19:54 utc | 43
And I went to an even smaller kernel.
I was NOT in any way criticizing your post, I use the term "tangential analysis" for when I do extrapolation or crossing of information to arrive at other interesting consequences.
In this case that those that flew and lived to make it back didn't hit much as far as cruise missiles are concerned.
Maybe foster AD is more dangerous for F16s than people thought.
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 20:06 utc | 49
I'm a bit behind the news curve with respect to how the Patriot systems are performing in UKR.
Posted by: GW | Aug 30 2024 20:03 utc | 48
The Patriot systems are performing a bit behind the curve in UKR.
With respect to news, I'm afraid, nothing new :D
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 20:11 utc | 50
But maybe there is a better saying in English.
Posted by: Mario | Aug 30 2024 19:30 utc | 32
Many variations:
"The disease which purports to be the cure."
or the catch-all for an American.
"With friends like him, who needs enemies."
Posted by: kupkee | Aug 30 2024 20:22 utc | 51
44, R:
Yes, thanks, the Ukranews does link to a Telegram official posting, which I translated and saw that they conceded the loss of the plane.
Yeah, I guess I did not go from link to link to link (that Ukra was the second one given, the WSJ article didn't have it.) And also, rather than the Urkanews article, rather just have the final link itself, which was one further down from the UN article. That is what I asked for. But, yes, finally, I see it. All good.
P.s. I'm not on Facebook and can't view the MOD FB page (I tried).
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 20:23 utc | 52
Posted by: Mario | Aug 30 2024 19:30 utc | 32
The patch is worse than the whole (La pezza è peggio del buco)
Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 30 2024 19:39 utc | 39
“The cure is worse than the disease”.
FWIW, I like it more with the patch and the hole.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 30 2024 20:24 utc | 53
Dima reporting that Selidove is not taken (or half taken). That even pro Russia channels are pushing back on some of the "get in front of things" reports from people like Scott/squat/Kalibrated/Ayden, which claimed further pushes.
However, Karlivka does have a (recent) flag geolocation. Will be interesting to see if DS concedes it, tonight. Karlivka would be a big blow as it's kind of a hinge pin of a Vovcha River defense line (and has held for months).
Also some reports from the Ayden type crowd that G(H)altsynivka has fallen or half of it has. Would be another major break of the VR line. I suspect this is Ayden speed running again. But we'll see. Certaintly, I expect it to fall soon (and maybe it already has). But I still remember Scott claiming Berdichi more than a month before it fell. So, you have to watch him...he speculates...and grabs the most slanted Telegram evidence he can to make RFA claims.
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 20:34 utc | 54
The name Natalya / Natalia Vovk isn’t mentioned once in Darya Dugina’s Wikipedia page.
It must not be relevant.
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 30 2024 20:37 utc | 55
I'm sure that what I read first on Oleksiy Mesia's death hinted or implied that his plane was still on the ground when it was hit either by a Russian missile directly or by shrapnel from an explosion caused when the missile was intercepted by a Ukrainian air defence system during a Russian attack. Knowing the context in which he died would help explain the confusion, as the recovery of Russian missile fragments from his body or the jet he was in could be explained by either possibility.
What is not helpful is continued lying about the incident by the Ukrainian air force, and that in itself could saying something about the breadth and depth of the incompetence along with the state of panic in the AFU. Were the AFU to admit any truth about how Media died, they would not get any more wonder weapons or money from NATO. Then Ukraine really would collapse and everyone in the government and the military would be scrambling to leave the country before being lynched by whatever remains of the Ukrainian general public.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Aug 30 2024 20:40 utc | 56
Apparently an American RQ-4B Global Hawk reconnaissance UAV was performing a reconnaissance flight near the Russian border over Estonian territory today, but during the operation it signaled that it had lost contact with the operator and began to move chaotically in the airspace.
The track of the abnormal flight of the reconnaissance drone with the call sign FORTE12 on the Flightradar24 resource indirectly confirms a software failure that occurred during the UAV flight.
Posted by: Fyador | Aug 30 2024 20:50 utc | 57
Posted by: paddy | Aug 30 2024 19:56 utc | 45
Those issues with the Patriot firing on NATO standard aircraft with the correct IFF signature had been ironed out by the time of the gulf states war on Yemen. They however never got the thing to be effective at shooting down low flying drones or ballistic missiles even with 24-7 AEW support and a minimum of a 6 ship cap.
The thing should have been tossed out in the 90's and replaced by something based off the Ageis system from the USN. Patriot is a dog with fleas.
Posted by: badjoke | Aug 30 2024 20:51 utc | 58
Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 20:34 utc | 54
ISW had Berdichi geolocated video assessed as taken the month that you and some mil bloggers were going on about some holdouts still there(without the video or evidence the ISW posted). They also had sourced where the Ukranian MOD stated they withdrew from the settlement.
ISW the main source of western propaganda on Ukraine, obviously not the only one.
"Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi stated on April 28 that Ukrainian forces have withdrawn from Berdychi"
https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-28-2024
sourcing
https://t.me/osirskiy/670
It was a few days later that they assessed Berdichi under Russian control with the geolocated videos. Then a month of mil-bloggers putting out Berdichi clickbait.
Posted by: Rhymerez | Aug 30 2024 20:53 utc | 59
Now a problem of ammunition shortage among the UAF in the Kursk region
Attacks by Ukrainian militant units are being thwarted by the skillful actions of the Russian army. At the same time, the losses in personnel and equipment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces continue to grow every day.
The above-mentioned negative trend for the Ukrainian army is partly due to the problem of a shortage of ammunition, as The Times writes, citing wounded militants.
As the publication's interlocutors with the call signs "Zlyuka" and "Prorok" said, due to a shortage of ammunition, their unit was unable to respond to the attack of the Russian military and had to retreat from their positions. At the same time, the evacuation resulted in the loss of five people, since the special transport was unable to reach the designated point without artillery cover, and the unit had to "crawl" there on its own.
What is characteristic is that the above-mentioned situation is not at all something out of the ordinary. Another interlocutor of The Times from among the militants wounded in the Kursk region said that out of his group of 15 people, only five survived under similar conditions.
In turn, the military man emphasized that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are losing a lot of people in the Russian border area, and what is happening there is very different from the information provided by the media.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 30 2024 20:53 utc | 60
The F-16s operate from a base in Galicia - a long way from any front line. Where was the shootdown and were was the patriot battery?
Since Kursk, Ukrainians have been saying why is the air defence not working. Batteries and interceptors are in short supply.
Friend or foe? Far behind the frontlines, its a simple matter of being able to distinguish aircraft from missiles and drones.
A scarce patriot battery uses a scarce interceptor to shoot down a scarce F-16 and kill an even scarcer pilot.
Even by Ukroid/woke Nato standards, that seems a bit over the top.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 30 2024 20:54 utc | 61
I continue to include engine failure until air defense records are thoroughly reviewed.
Posted by: paddy | Aug 30 2024 18:31 utc | 10
If the good ukrainians and their friends in the west have any say in the matted, those records will be reviewed as thoroughly, honestly and neutrally as the ledgers for the money sent to Ukraine, the activities of the American, German, etc. bioweapon labs in Ukraine, and the the children and body parts sent out of Ukraine to Europe, America and israhell.
Posted by: Michael A | Aug 30 2024 20:56 utc | 62
It’s as if Milo Minderbinder were running the US MIC. Imagine the sales pitches —
“Patriot: the only system that can shoot down the F-16!”
“F-16: Only the Patriot can shoot it down!”
Wouldn’t your shithole little country want to spend billions on both?
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 30 2024 20:57 utc | 63
30AUG24 DS update has dropped:
The enemy occupied Karlivka and advanced in Halytsynivka, Stelmakhivka, near Dolyna and Pishchane. The area of Krasniy Yar has been clarified.
1. He concedes Karlivka. Very important advance. (I think. Will see how this plays forward.)
2. Pretty large red advance south of Ocheretyne salient. In addition to Karlivka, a lot of fields covered. Probably over 20 kmsq.
3. Within (2) there's also an advance to G(H)alysynivka. But not really advancing into it, on the outskirts (if you look on map). Still north of the Vovcha. (But the Karlivka area, red mass crosses it, so I don't expect it to hold things up much.)
4. Also same (2) red mass moving close to Dolyna, but outskirts.
5. The map drawing seems a bit sloppy. He did not adjust the gray zone from yesterday, so the new red blob is overlaid on top of and exceeding it, with no gray border below it. (Yesterday, he was sloppy with the written update.) He might be a little bumming.
6. The Krasni Yar clarification is a slight correction (back) of Russian extent, but grey zone unchanged.
7. Other areas mentioned are very small and in fronts with infrequent movement.
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 21:06 utc | 64
59:
IT was over a month of claiming B, before it actually fell. I was quick to concede it when it did. It wasn't just me, DS. Dima, Suriyak, DPA all showed it not fallen that time yet. You have to watch for Scott Squat. He likes to run ahead of things (for the clicks). I understand the urge. But you have to watch him.
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 21:08 utc | 65
Posted by: Fyador | Aug 30 2024 20:50 utc | 57
############
eWar?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 30 2024 21:15 utc | 66
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 21:08 utc | 65
I think the patrons of this bar know who they have to watch.
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 30 2024 21:18 utc | 67
I have been remiss in my duties and didn't notice the numbers for excess mortality for RF for June were in.
So RAW excess mortality was only 982, using the adjustment that always looked good (+1.200) then we're talking about ONLY 2.182 RF KIA.
Now, if we go to the source (psychohistorian? whoever, thank you) for AFU KIA we get 55.115
And a mind numbing 25x Kill ratio
Same methodology and in May it was only above 7x and in the hard combat of January barely above 3x (remember putin mentioning a 5x ratio as good news later on?)
Maybe the Kursk incursion was just a desperate way of trying to roll the dice somewhere were the slaughter would be less one sided. Let's admit the slow push to Prohres was quite expensive for the AFU (not surprising as they tried fighting for each meter without proper lines of defense)
Feel free to check and double check what I said. Trust is good, control is better.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker
https://mskvremya.ru/article/2023/1520-poteri-ukrainy-za-vremya-spetsoperatsii
P.S.: I had only taken quarterly values but now I'm tempted to review the whole past on a monthly basis (now that I also have RF values for AFU KIA) if someone then lends a hand on connecting values and ratios to events and stages (milites? are you game? if anyone else thinks they can help on that feel free to answer)
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 21:21 utc | 68
eWar?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 30 2024 21:15 utc | 66
May well be that!
Posted by: Fyador | Aug 30 2024 21:24 utc | 69
A report from another source indicated the destruction of an additional two more F-16s on the ground this week, along with at least one F-16 trained pilot. No I do not have a link to the story handy, but I hope it is in fact true :)
Posted by: nwwoods | Aug 30 2024 21:29 utc | 70
Yay! Berdychi Bob is back!!
Been missing your granular analysis of how many square metres Russian forces have captured...
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 30 2024 21:30 utc | 71
In turn, the military man emphasized that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are losing a lot of people in the Russian border area, and what is happening there is very different from the information provided by the media.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 30 2024 20:53 utc | 60
If they are being slaughtered with a 25 to 1 ratio then things are indeed dire.
But as more than one in MOA have mentioned, 90% of casualties (with very low cost) are on retreating enemies (or insufficiently entrenched defenders when you can FAB them to hell without they ever seeing you, as I mentioned above, maybe just maybe Kursk was a good play to reduce that, plenty of bombers and missiles were sent to deal with it and therefore not thrown on the Donetsk defenders... add the abandoned lines and I'm seriously considering that AFU is quietly abandoning an entire line of defense, or even several, and that would fit with the noise/psy-op "RF is going too fast/it's a trap")
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 21:33 utc | 72
More intrigue in the Ukraine prison yard. Who is whose bitch. Who gets the cigarettes. Who gets a shiv in the cafeteria line. Who is the warden's favorite. What a glorious place. Slobber Ukraine.
Posted by: Mike R | Aug 30 2024 21:36 utc | 73
So, does the Patriot or AD crew get to claim the 200K + Rubles that is the reward offered by Russia to whoever shoots down a F-16?
Posted by: Merlin2 | Aug 30 2024 21:41 utc | 74
Newbie | Aug 30 2024 21:33 utc | 72
In one of the Kursk surveillance drone videos, the drone would watch a unit - generally five to ten men run into a house. Once they were all in a single artillery shell would come in. I assume laser guided and utterly destroy the house. Very few if any of the heavy concrete soviet style buildings in that Kursk salient. Just small rural settlements with ordinary houses.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 30 2024 21:43 utc | 75
Fyador | Aug 30 2024 20:50 utc | 57
Every now and again either Flightradar24 has a headfit or someone plays sillies with their signals. A few days ago I noted two Emirates (I think) flights which appeared to be heading straight for Sebastopol, way off course, they both turned round a few miles offshore but well within Russian airspace - I half expected them to vanish as they were brought down.
There was a US sigint plane in the area, but well south of them.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Aug 30 2024 21:46 utc | 76
I highly recommend listening to Nicolai Lilin's daily videos. Although it's in Italian he talks not too fast. It took me just a few years to learn the language and listening to him helped quite a lot. He is in fact a Russian born, from Transnitria, and has been in the second campaign of Chechnia in the Russian army. The guy is a real treasure of knowledge when it comes to culture, conflicts, literature and more..
Posted by: Stephane | Aug 30 2024 21:46 utc | 77
the noise/psy-op "RF is going too fast/it's a trap"
Just that the Kursk incursion, a complete surprise to us here and seemingly also to Russia, is a signal if we needed it that Russia may be fighting Ukrainian troops, but they're also fighting every planner in NATO, NATO have a lot of them, and some are quite smart.
So, sensitised by Kursk, I get a bit jumpy when the salient goes so well while the flanks are still tough going.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Aug 30 2024 21:52 utc | 78
In one of the Kursk surveillance drone videos, the drone would watch a unit - generally five to ten men run into a house. Once they were all in a single artillery shell would come in. I assume laser guided and utterly destroy the house. Very few if any of the heavy concrete soviet style buildings in that Kursk salient. Just small rural settlements with ordinary houses.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 30 2024 21:43 utc | 75
Doesn't surprise me, I was shocked when I saw the June numbers and got the 25x ratio....
Now it makes sense, and also explains the retreat...
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 21:52 utc | 79
From Simplicius, "Last of the Wunderwaffen? F-16 Blasted Out of Sky in First Mission". Hard to scramble with Kinzals coming?
"The truth is, this incident shows several things:
1. IFF is harder than it looks. Either NATO IFF (Identity Friend Foe) systems do not work well, which is funny considering all the jeers at Russian IFF during the claimed friendly fire shoot downs of A-50s, etc.; or the US simply never bothered to give Ukraine IFF codes between the Patriot and F-16.
2. The pro-UA crowd likewise laughed at other Russian friendly fire shoot downs, particularly those that happened during extremely contested air defense missions when dozens of Ukrainian missiles and drones were in the sky. Now they have a taste of their own medicine as they can see that things get quite a bit frenetic and even the best of them can accidentally shoot down their own planes when the radar screens are filled with dozens of targets.
It’s also quite possible—and in fact probably more plausible than the official story—that the F-16 did not gloriously go down swinging, after heroically shooting down several Russian drones and missiles, but that it was infact destroyed on the ground just as the Russian MOD had stated. You’ll recall during the large-scale strikes days ago, the Russian MOD said two F-16s were potentially destroyed in their hangars.
How would the pilot have been killed, you ask?
I would think like so: when the initial missile launches were recorded, Ukrainian pilots were sent to begin scrambling the jets to the sky to keep them out of harm’s way, as is standard for both sides. They know the exact speed and trajectory of Russian cruise missiles and can calculate the precise time they have until the missiles potentially reach the airfield in the west of the country.
The problem is: they can’t calculate Kinzhals in the same way. While they were initiating scrambling procedures, Russia may have fired some Kinzhals which would have reached the airfield in as little as under 3 minutes. Such a hypersonic missile could have hit the hangars even as the Ukrainian pilots were prepping the jets.
All in all, it’s a testament to the fact that modern near-peer, high-intensity conflict is not about wunderwaffe and ‘game changer’ toys. There is no such thing as a golden bullet or unicorn weapon that can really move the needle in near-peer conflict. It’s all about the totality of what your nation as a whole can bring to the table, economically, militarily, productively, and in terms of willpower, political influence, morale, etc. Any single weapon system is meaningless in the grand scheme of things and can be destroyed easily by the plethora of available modern counter-systems."
Posted by: daffyDuct | Aug 30 2024 21:55 utc | 80
Malenkov 24 - yea the UAF has lost somewhere between 500-600 fixed wing aircraft of various types and nationalities, including various MiG's, SU's from UAF stocks and reserves, and also from now NATO but former Warsaw Pact countries who dumped their old MIG's and shipped them the UAF bases.
Many of these aircraft were destroyed on their own airbases during the opening phases of the Russo-Nato war. As are the F-16's if they are based in the Ukraine (doubtful).
But to the surprise of none, the US MIC has now planned to conveniently back fill these obsolete Soviet era aircraft in NATO countries with the very pricey flying junkyard better known as the F-35.
As for the wunderwaffe, the UAF F16's........where exactly will these aircraft land and be serviced? The RF has effectively destroyed UAF airbases. They, the F-16's, require pristine runways..........Romania or Moldova?
Posted by: Tobias Cole | Aug 30 2024 21:57 utc | 81
more Bezuglaya
"Disaster is coming. The impression is that he is deliberately undermining the front," – Deputy Chairman of the Defense Committee of the Rada
Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Syrsky takes the 72nd brigade from Vuhledar, which has been repelling all attacks there for 2 years and knows the area very well, – said M. Bezuhlaya.
"It will be a disaster, like with Toretsk and New York, when the 24th brigade was taken from there."
"I have numerous appeals from the military in despair... It seems that he is deliberately undermining the front," Bezuhlaya wrote.
Posted by: guest | Aug 30 2024 22:03 utc | 82
Tobias Cole | Aug 30 2024 21:57 utc | 81
Moldova being non Nato is most likely, though it seems the Americans are actually hesitant, or at least divided on expanding the war. The Russian leadership believes the war will be expanded so I'm waiting to see what happens.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 30 2024 22:08 utc | 83
From the Russian point of view, F-16s in Ukraine make for a nice round of target practice.
Posted by: Rob | Aug 30 2024 22:18 utc | 85
LightYearsFromHome | Aug 30 2024 20:00 utc | 47
…Hitting the plane and the pilot on the ground with a missile? Exquisite timing - or exquisite intelligence, the inside type.
Nope.
The Ukies wanted tictok klout and posted a pic of the pilot and the planes on telegram. (Or Xtwit)
Link was posted @MoA a few threads back.
(And that’s the problem with the clutter here now… important|interesting tidbits are lost in the sewerage.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 30 2024 22:30 utc | 86
71,
War mapper should be out with the monthly % territory taken, a few day after the calendar month end. I'm predicting a "good" month, relative to past ones. .03% or maybe even higher. So far, .03% is the best month we've had over the last year.
.01% is about 60 kmsq. So, you have to get 2 sq km a day to reach that (or 6 per day to .03%/month). We've had some slow day earlier in AUG, but a lot of big ones also, with over 20 just in that day. So, a decent chance we are bigger than the .03% from JUL or MAY. (May was the Karkhive invasion month for perspective.)
A .1% month would really impress me as that would be 600 kmsq. A 1% month would be 6000! Color me impressed if they get .1%. I'm totally guessing, but thinking something like .04% is what they did. Better than nothing, but still very very slow. (The problem is that you get the wrong idea, zooming into one area like Prokrosk where they did 10-20 km west in a month, becaue that is one area that is a very small fraction of the entire front (which is mostly not moving at all).
Anyhow...I'm very interested in the number. And even if it's "only" .04%+, will give them credit for at least accelerating versus older months.
SEP is setting up to be pretty decent also. Lot of unprotected underbelly to the south of the Vovcha river. Even if the Prokrosk defenses are stiff (heck, look at Chasiv Yar!), that underbelly will allow a lot of kmsq to get mopped up easily. Actually may even be worth concentrating there, vice Prokrosk (both sides are speculating).
Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 30 2024 22:39 utc | 87
the X post by the Ukrainians, of the pilot and the planes on the ground in Ivano-Frankivsk
From the twitter link posted earlier (thanks, apologies for my laziness in locating your post for acknowledgment)
On X: F-16 pilot killed in Ukraine …… Lieutenant Colonel Oleksiy Mes
Noticed the customised U$Ukrainian flag patch on his left arm.
Was he a U$ citizen Ukrainian? Is the U$ openly badging it’s assets ?
>… None of it matters; he’s dead, the plane destroyed, the airfield targeted.
Just another folly in the cascade of foolishness.
And I made another post admiring the Ukrainian brazen disregard for op-sec, (before the Russians delivered a ?kinzal? directly to the (pun) “X”-marks-the-spot F-16s
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 30 2024 22:45 utc | 88
I’d make a heroic effort to wade through the sewerage of past threads to find the X-post of the Ukrainian pilot posing by his F-16 to share with the @bar, because, at one time the @bar was collegiate and sharing links of intriguing snippets not widely reported was “currency” here, and made for banter and discussion.
But I’m not subjecting myself to the sewerage of past threads; one tour of duty a day is all I can tolerate.
So.
A Big Fuck You to all the off topic thread hijacking waste of pixel trash you fuckers post.
And an even bigger Fuck You to those who shit on Peter for calling out the trolls.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 30 2024 22:59 utc | 89
And with that last, I’m (temporarily) all out of fucks
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 30 2024 23:02 utc | 90
And I made another post admiring the Ukrainian brazen disregard for op-sec, (before the Russians delivered a ?kinzal? directly to the (pun) “X”-marks-the-spot F-16s
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 30 2024 22:45 utc | 88
And I remember seeing it, him without the mustache by the F-16 and the small section of the building that gave it away.
But the search is basically useless and threads are many and often long.
I have quit trying to find an earlier post I might have made and often just try to get the info again to repost.
Don't despair, adapat
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 23:15 utc | 91
I might be tempted to believe if we were talking about Gripens...this way sounds a lot like bullshit... just an excuse for the F16 never landing or departing from an ukraine base.
The fig leaf is getting smaller by the minute...
https://tass.com/world/1836383
The Ukrainian military has adapted sections of highways to receive F-16 aircraft instead of airbases to reduce the odds of a strike on them, the LCI TV channel reported, publishing a video showing one of these roads.
Former military pilot Xavier Titelman told the TV station that center dividers have been removed and asphalt has been restored on some sections of the highway. According to him, this is necessary in order to reduce the risk of aircraft being hit by Russian air defenses. The TV channel also noted that the Russian military was aware of the location of Ukrainian air bases and launched strikes on them on a regular basis.
French General Michel Yakovleff, who came on air as an expert, said that NATO had previously resorted to similar methods in other countries. However, he admitted that taking off from roads is riskier than taking off from runways prepared for such aircraft.
Earlier, the Ukrainian armed forces' General Staff confirmed the loss of an F-16 aircraft, but did not provide any details of the incident. Verkhovna Rada lawmaker Maryana Bezuglaya claimed that it was shot down by a Patriot SAM missile by mistake and accused the Ukrainian armed forces' command of hiding the circumstances of the plane's destruction.
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 23:28 utc | 92
Meanwhile Nero directive is underway, is it a warning for NPPs?
https://tass.com/politics/1836373
The Ukrainian armed forces have flooded dozens of coal mines while retreating to the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), Vladimir Rogov, the chairman of the commission on sovereignty, patriotic projects and support for veterans of the Russian Civic Chamber, has told TASS.
"While retreating, the Ukrainian armed forces are massively flooding mines in Donbass. They are flooding them in Pokrovsk (Krasnoarmeysk - TASS), as well as to the east, south and north. <...> This concerns dozens of mines in Donbass, which are either being flooded or are already flooded," Rogov said.
He added that the flooding of the mines poses environmental threats to the region, as well as implies the loss of resources and work opportunities.
"Restoration will be very expensive, comparable to the construction of new mines. <...> They are just repeating the actions of the Germans 81 years later; in August 1943, they flooded mines in Donbass before its liberation," the agency's source said.
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 30 2024 23:36 utc | 93
…far away, in the “land of democracy ”, amid the embezzlers, thieves, and Nazis, in the Nation State Laundry Mat, known as “UkraineUSA”… lies a conundrum…
“Some Western aid promised to Ukraine in 2023 won't actually arrive until 2027, NATO-state minister says”
“EU foreign ministers, Landsbergis, said that some vital military equipment Western allies had pledged to Ukraine wouldn't arrive for years.
"We are creating the narrative, the story to tell our citizens that we are fighters for what's good, but when it comes to deliveries, the story sometimes is very different," he said, per The Baltic Times.
"Once again, we have to ask ourselves a question whether we ourselves are not a part of this problem. So far, no Patriot batteries that have been promised in Washington have been delivered," Landsbergis said.
(Ukraine does have some US Patriot systems — Lansbergis appears to be referring to an extra shipment promised in April 2024 which Ukraine said on Thursday had yet to show up.)
"No new ammunition packages have been delivered since June," Landsbergis continued. "Out of the F-16s that have been delivered, they have started using just a couple of them."
"During our discussions with Ukrainian friends we find out that certain equipment that has been promised last year will only be delivered in 2027."
He didn't specify which equipment had been delayed to 2027.
He could mean a $55 billion EU aid package, approved in February, which is scheduled to be paid in installments till 2027, mainly for economic purposes. Recent military aid deals with European allies, ****including Spain, also involve annual installments until 2027.“***
Story by [email protected] (Tom Porter) • 13h
Lol… EU will be “paying installments” long after 2027…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 30 2024 23:51 utc | 94
The F16 being destroyed on the ground and other fables merely cover stories makes a bit more sense. Even with the exceptionally high standards of incompetence within Nato, the patriot story seems a bit far fetched considering the scarcity of everything concerned - patriot systems, patriot interceptors, F-16's, pilots....
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 30 2024 23:55 utc | 95
There is absolutely nothing 'friendly' about 'friendly fire' ....
Wonder who came up with such a term, and when?
It appears to be oxymoronic in some strange sense ....
Lose one single pilot to a ground based patriot - and head of air force fired!
Does anything make sense?
Posted by: Don Firineach | Aug 30 2024 23:57 utc | 96
Zelensky chimes in on Venezuela Maduro elections on X:
Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський
@ZelenskyyUa
Follow
“Worrying reports of Russian Wagner mercenaries being spotted in Venezuela alongside government forces. Wherever these thugs go, they bring death and destabilization.
This is a clear example of Russia's shameless meddling in other countries' affairs, as well as its usual strategy of sowing chaos around the world.
We see that the people of Venezuela are going through a very difficult time. And the only way out is through peaceful and democratic procedures, not through sending murderers to further exacerbate the situation.”
Is that you Hillary?? Sounds like it to me…hum…perhaps Zelensky is actually a disguised doppelgänger….
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 31 2024 0:10 utc | 97
@Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Fri, 30 Aug 2024 21:30:00 GMT | 71
I have him blocked, but I imagine it will be along the lines of "Russia has taken .00002% of the European landmass. At this rate it will take Russia 4,354 years to get to Warsaw" or something like that. Starting with false premises and reaching false conclusions - that's Berdychi Bob.
Posted by: James M. | Aug 31 2024 0:33 utc | 98
FFS Peter, IT WAS YOU! Who posted the Ukrainian F-16 and it’s proudly posing (now deceased) pilot
F-16 pilot killed in Ukraine
Lieutenant Colonel Oleksiy Mes was one of the first Ukrainians allowed to fly American fighters. He spent six months in Denmark learning to fly F-16s.
A local deputy writes that Mes was killed on August 26 - during a missile attack on military and industrial facilities in Ukraine.
One of the strikes was carried out on the F-16 base airport in Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast. The day before, the Ukrainian Armed Forces posted a photo of the planes, which revealed their storage location.
- Anna News
https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1828835185368133922
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 29 2024 9:57 utc | 10
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 31 2024 0:40 utc | 99
I have him blocked, but I imagine it will be along the lines of "Russia has taken .00002% of the European landmass. At this rate it will take Russia 4,354 years to get to Warsaw" or something like that. Starting with false premises and reaching false conclusions - that's Berdychi Bob.
Posted by: James M. | Aug 31 2024 0:33 utc | 98
And I am still curious why with his calculator obsession he has not measured the percentage of Ukie incursion into Russia at the Kursk region and how long will it take them to get to Moscow. Not once - and I am idly curious why.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 31 2024 0:43 utc | 100
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Purple monkey dishwasher
Posted by: El Dude | Aug 30 2024 18:04 utc | 1