Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 25, 2024
The MoA Week In Review – OT 2024-202

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

Palestine:

Ukraine:

Selections:

Andrew Kloster @ARKloster – 23:57 UTC · Aug 24, 2024

BREAKING: Cornel West is dropping out and endorsing Trump.

“A brother can’t in good conscience endorse a pro-war, fake black, code-switching hussy whose ancestors owned slaves. I’m proud to stand with Donald John Trump.”

U.S. Navy Defeat:


Other issues:

Boeing:

Free Speech:

Color Revolution Watch:

Use as open (not related to the wars in Ukraine and Palestine) thread …

Comments

i was in mcleod ganj and dharmasala once in 1998… saw the dali lama in a quit library in mcleod ganj.. does that count for brownie points around here?? lol… 1998…
folks really ought to practice what they preach… this is an age old proverb, lol…
tangential quote from a friend.. he makes these up –
A monk asked, “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”
The master replied, “Count the trees, and you will miss the forest. Count the angels, and you will miss the dance.”
Which is larger, the forest or the pin?

Posted by: james | Aug 27 2024 17:55 utc | 201

quit – quiet..
you can all be quiet or quit now, lol..

Posted by: james | Aug 27 2024 17:55 utc | 202

Posted by: denk | Aug 27 2024 16:44 utc | 193
Fact is that if China walked the sovereignty talk they are preaching with their ally Putin they would recognize Taiwan as a sovereign, independent neighbor and move on. But they do not, moreover they bully other nations not to recognize the ROC, not to have ambassadors, not to put them on maps, not to make financial arrangements. In short, they act like regional hegemons (don’t forget Tibet decades ago and up until the present) and therefore total hypocrites when they lecture the US.
Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 23 2022 20:17 utc | 217

You got me on that one, denk. Since posting that, and partly thanks to you and others here, I read a little more about Taiwan and now wouldn’t write what I wrote then.
Now I pretty much have no opinion about it except what I offered above, namely a question: ‘what would happen to the Buddhist and Daoist practitioners who left China for Taiwan if the CCP takes over?’ I have a feeling that most of them would opt to move elsewhere. Time will tell, I guess.
And now I understand a little more of US role in the region, I also wish they would bug out. But that’s a given. Despite your many immature accusations, am no fan of the US Empire and the sooner it is dismantled the better in my book. Was reading books about MK Ultra in the 70’s. When did you twig to them?
I liked what happened in Donbass with the referenda; it seemed clear and clean. At the time I wrote that paragraph above I thought ‘why don’t they do the same thing in Taiwan?’ but now have learned (only a little) more, I realize it’s not that simple.
Still: wouldn’t that be an ideal way to resolve it? Let the people who live there decide?

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 27 2024 18:00 utc | 203

Still: wouldn’t that be an ideal way to resolve it? Let the people who live there decide?
Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 27 2024 18:00 utc | 202
_____
Who exactly is preventing the people on Taiwan from deciding?

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 27 2024 18:05 utc | 204

Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 27 2024 16:22 utc | 191
Scorpion@133 ignores my already stated point that the right to self-determination must include the right to national unity. Nationality is not determined by a local vote.

Sorry, but I’ve been too active on this thread. (Have a nasty flu plus altitude sickness and am muddle-headed – plus have too much time.)
I don’t understand all your post. I thought each State was a nation of sorts and they joined together to great a ‘more perfect Union’. Originally they had the sovereign right to Secede but now apparently it’s not that simple. Maybe you are right that States cannot secede because that would break up a Nation, but if so I think that’s wrong. I think also somewhere in the UN Charter there is a right for people to determine their own collective identity and this is correct IMO. Ideally. But what is ideal is rarely, in this world, what is possible.
I have been hoping for decades once it became clear to me that DC was corrupt and the US Empire a great Evil that States would secede. But it hasn’t happened. Maybe because of the reasons you explain which I don’t understand well.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 27 2024 18:06 utc | 205

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 27 2024 18:05 utc | 203
Who exactly is preventing the people on Taiwan from deciding?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but IF the Taiwanese people voted for independence, i.e. being neither in PRC or ROC, would China acknowledge it? Would the ROC? Doubtful, no?
In any case, maybe the question is moot because most Taiwanese don’t want independence, so although it might ostensibly put this decades-long controversy to rest, it might not be a desired or workable solution.
Maybe that’s why the stalemate has gone on so long. They want to be part of China but they also want to be autonomous, something PRC says they can accommodate but… ask Hong Kong how that has been going.
OK. Overposted. Bowing out for a while.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 27 2024 18:20 utc | 206

Some discussion started on the Ukraine Air Defence thread about Britain and it’s ongoing decline.
Sir Queer Smarmer makes a downbeat presentation about a £22 billion “hole” in the nation’s finances, yet blithely continues to commit to Britain’s “unwavering support” for Israel and Ukraine.
It’s all in the name of “defending freedom” of course, so let’s take a closer look at the “freedom” being “defended”:
– the “freedom” to bounce over potholed roads, so bad that many have resorted to buying/leasing 4x4s just to cope
– the “freedom” to not be able to get an appointment with a doctor when needed
– the “freedom” to leave disabled people stranded on trains, when assistance had been confirmed
– the “freedom” to wait for buses not turning up because the cash-strapped operators can’t afford to employ enough staff
– the “freedom” to choose between 4 or 5 dominant supermarket chains for food purchases. Cartels, moi?
– the “freedom” to choose between different mainstream media outlets, all of whom broadcast variations on the same theme
I could go on and on, but I should just sit back and “enjoy” the “defence” of my “freedom”…
/rant

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 27 2024 18:24 utc | 207

Correct me if I’m wrong, but IF the Taiwanese people voted for independence, i.e. being neither in PRC or ROC, would China acknowledge it? Would the ROC? Doubtful, no?
Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 27 2024 18:20 utc | 205
——
I think what you’re getting at is this: A vote for independence by the people on Taiwan would, according to Chapter I Article 4 of the Constitution of the Republic of China — the constitution in effect in Taiwan — in fact be an act of secession from the Republic of China. Since that constitution was put in effect in 1947, the Republic of China was assumed then, and still is now by the authorities in Taipei, to include all of what we call the PRC, as well as the Mongolian Republic and parts of Siberian Russia including the Tuva Republic. A secession would necessitate a change in ROC state boundaries, which can be approved only by the ROC National Assembly. So the National Assembly — the one that meets in Taipei — could effectively nullify any “secession” vote if it so chose.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 27 2024 18:36 utc | 208

States and nationalities are not the same thing. Nations existed before the modern state. Remember that a synonym for “nation” is “tribe.” The English students in medieval universities were recognizably different (not that they voted to be different) even in the days before England was a state. The more perfect union formed by the original states in America consisted partly of the fact that they could no longer legitimately go to war with each other. In an empire, one dominant nationality has erected an oppressive regime over the people of another nation. If they are concentrated in one area, they can liberate themselves by uniting their nation in one state. Such wars of liberation are exercises in the right of self-determination. Taiwan is not a separate nation, but a separate political system, capitalism (it’s state form has been both dictatorship and bourgeois democracy.) Thus, the Taiwan/PRC separation is a continuation of civil war and reunification is the end of the civil war and thus the exercise of the right of nations to self determination. Or if the big capitalists in Taiwan managed to overthrow the PRC to reunify China, that too is self-determination. That I would find that a human tragedy anyhow is my judgment.
One time colonies like America and Mexico and Haiti become different by historical separation from the ruling class of the old nation. That separation into new nationality is not the result of a political vote, not even the majority, much less a plurality. Voting on independence and fighting for it, usually the same thing, are about dealing with the new facts.
Dispersed nationalities like the Romany have the difficulty of not having a place to defend, leaving their right to self-determination unresolvable by the traditional means. Historically they have suffered vicissitudes of oppression. Socialist states have the best track record in how they treat such nationalities, typically leaving considerable political autonomy plus strongly supporting the language and culture (including religion when pertinent,) as well as fostering economic development and social equality. Better is not perfect, but demanding perfection of some but not others (typically, the demander’ s own nation or state) is generally high-sounding reaction, an excuse. It is not clear to me that the world victory of socialism requires that somehow every language or religion or nation must have its own army and central bank and currency and national bourgeoisie. But that’s my question and probably too far in the future to reach firm conclusions about. Technically the planet was multipolar in 1913 and that didn’t work well. National spheres of influence held by the Great Powers is also technically multipolarity but that version I don’t hold with. The negative expression of multipolarity, the overthrow of US ultraimperialism (aka “hegemony”) I do very much support.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 27 2024 18:42 utc | 209

addendum to malenkov | Aug 27 2024 18:36 utc | 207
Oops! And Taiwan no longer has a National Assembly. It’s unclear whether the Legislative Yuan (which does still exist) has assumed or can assume the powers constitutionally assigned to the National Assembly; if not, a constitutional amendment would be necessary to fix Chapter I Article 4 (and while we’re at it, the entire Chapter III), which would make the “secession” process even messier.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 27 2024 18:46 utc | 210

malenkov | Aug 27 2024 16:20 utc | 190
*** That too has a long tradition in the West; in fact, there are still countries in which the state plats a role (however much that role has devolved into mere formality) in nominating Roman Catholic bishops.***
And the Archbishop of Canterbury (aka. chief Anglican) is definitely a political appointment.
By his own statement, the present one (Welby) isn’t even sure that the god he’s supposed to preach about really exists at all.
So how come he got the job?

Posted by: Cynic | Aug 27 2024 20:59 utc | 211

RFK, jr., endorses Trump! Wingnut endorses Peanut brain.

Posted by: lester | Aug 27 2024 21:02 utc | 212

I certainly do not support trump or the republicans (at all! ever!!!), but really the democrats once again proved themselves to be the most despicable & corrupted political party on the face of the Earth
Glenzilla:
https://x.com/ggreenwald/status/1828484605147541807
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald
The Democratic Party has spent the year trying to get all of their opponents banned from the ballot: Trump, RFK Jr, Jill Stein, Cornel West.
Remember: American Democracy will literally die if you don’t vote for Democrats.
https://x.com/AP/status/1828195753518342245
The Associated Press @AP
Green Party’s Jill Stein will remain on Wisconsin ballot after court refuses to hear challenge

Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 27 2024 21:34 utc | 213

So Macron loses the elections and refuses to respect the result, while In Venezuela Maduro won the elections but Macron + EU refuse to respect the result – This Democracy stuff is a bit strange… — Mick Wallace
“>https://t.me/afshinrattansi/7742

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 27 2024 22:08 utc | 214

I could go on and on, but I should just sit back and “enjoy” the “defence” of my “freedom”…
/rant
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 27 2024 18:24 utc | 206
Masks fell off as the west felt that it had won the war against the USSR (that and the fact that even the US was beyond its prime, choose the 60’s or the 80s but that’s the limit, and squeezing the plebs was critical to keep the wealth of the 0.1%), for GB/UK it started back in the mid 1800’s .

Posted by: Newbie | Aug 27 2024 23:13 utc | 215

And the Archbishop of Canterbury (aka. chief Anglican) is definitely a political appointment.
By his own statement, the present one (Welby) isn’t even sure that the god he’s supposed to preach about really exists at all.
So how come he got the job?
Posted by: Cynic | Aug 27 2024 20:59 utc | 210
______
I too would doubt the existence of God if I owed my ecclesiastical position to the likes of King Tampon I of the House of Battenberg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.
We’ve obviously come a long way since Thomas More’s martyrdom because he refused to accept the religious authority of King Gimme-a-Divorce.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 27 2024 23:19 utc | 216

..I too would doubt the existence of God if I owed my ecclesiastical position to the likes of King Tampon I of the House of Battenberg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.
..
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 27 2024 23:19 utc | 215
If you are going to write about aristocrats please use the correct title. It is –
Tampax Rex Charlie the Turd of the etc etc.

Posted by: Ново З | Aug 28 2024 1:10 utc | 217

@ malenkov | Aug 27 2024 18:46 utc | 209
re: Taiwan no longer has a National Assembly
1. The government in Taipei is the Republic of China, not Taiwan.
2. The Assembly consisted of members from all over China, but they didn’t live forever.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 28 2024 1:20 utc | 218

@ malenkov | Aug 27 2024 18:46 utc | 209
re: Taiwan no longer has a National Assembly
1. The government in Taipei is the Republic of China, not Taiwan.

Yes, that was a careless formulation on my part.

2. The Assembly consisted of members from all over China, but they didn’t live forever.

Of course, the absence of a National Assembly renders the government in Taipei illegitimate in terms of its own constitution. After all, only the National Assembly is empowered with electing the president, and only the National Assembly can alter the constitution! (Chapter III, Article 27, paragraphs 1 and 3 respectively)
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 28 2024 1:20 utc | 217

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 28 2024 1:45 utc | 219

I served a military tour in Taiwan back in the sixties. Lived on “Grass Mountain” north of Taipei, houses owned by a bank. Beautiful place. And avoided Vietnam at that time (had been there earlier).

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 28 2024 2:35 utc | 220

Beijing is suggesting that Taiwan could be managed as Hong Kong supposedly is.
. . .from China Daily
‘One country, two systems’ vital to HK’s development

In a speech he delivered on Aug 22 to mark the 120th birth anniversary of Deng Xiaoping, President Xi Jinping praised the late leader’s contributions to the country, including the “one country, two systems” policy which facilitated the reunification of Hong Kong and Macao with the motherland.
However, over the past few years, some anti-China political forces have been trying to distort the meaning of “one country, two systems”, and using it to accuse China of failing to faithfully implement the policy in Hong Kong. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 28 2024 2:44 utc | 221

ZH has a posting up with the title
Top Defense Firms Set For Another Record Cash Flow Year As Wars Rage In Ukraine, Gaza, Lebanon
the quote

The analysis, which was commissioned by the Financial Times, reports, “The leading 15 defense contractors are forecast to log free cash flow of $52 billion in 2026,” with the “Five top US defense contractors are forecast to generate cash flow of $26 billion.”
The cash flow in 2026 will be double the 2021 numbers. The record numbers are part of an upward trend for weapons makers already benefiting from a surge in global military spending and conflict.

That will buy them a few politicians.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 28 2024 3:51 utc | 222

ZH has a posting up with the title
Series Of US-China ‘Cloak & Dagger’ Summits Led To This Week’s Sullivan Trip To Beijing
The quote

US national security adviser Jake Sullivan starting Tuesday is meeting over a period of two days with his Chinese counterpart, senior foreign policy official Wang Yi in the Chinese capital. “President Biden has been very clear in his conversations with President Xi that he is committed to managing this important relationship responsibly,” Sullivan told Wang just ahead of the rare talks. Crucially this is the first trip by a sitting US national security advisor to China in eight years (since 2016).
Sullivan’s visit to the outskirts of Beijing where the meetings are being held will last until Thursday, and little is expected to be published or revealed in the aftermath. The immediate goal is the restoration of positive and more frequent communications, which broke down for most of 2022-2023.
“The key is to keep to the overall direction of mutual respect, peaceful co-existence, and win-win cooperation,” Wang has said. He called recent China-US ties “critical” but admitted the relationship has of late taken “twists and turns”.
China’s foreign affairs ministry in a separate statement said, “China will focus on expressing serious concerns, clarifying its solemn position and making serious demands on the Taiwan issue, the right to development and China’s strategic security.”
Also on the agenda is the expansion and normalization of military-to-military talks in order to avoid confrontation in places like the South China Sea, as well as efforts at de-confliction in the Taiwan Strait, along with discussion of Washington’s desire for China to crackdown on the development and distribution of chemicals that can be made into fentanyl.
High on Beijing’s agenda will be US tariffs, particularly those targeting Chinese chip makers. “The United States has continuously taken unreasonable measures against China in terms of tariffs, export controls, investment reviews and unilateral sanctions, which have seriously undermined China’s legitimate rights and interests,” the Chinese foreign ministry statement laid out.
Meanwhile, Financial Times in a fresh investigative report issued this week has described that leading up to this historic meeting, both Sullivan and Wang had met quietly to stabilize relations in ‘cloak and dagger’ summits around the world. This had reportedly gone on since 2023 in the aftermath of the Chinese spy balloon fiasco over the American east coast.

I would like to be a fly on the wall in those meetings and expect civilization war issues like public/private finance to be discussed.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 28 2024 3:58 utc | 223

does this bbc article jive with your viewpoint?
Posted by: james | Aug 27 2024 4:44 utc | 148

It demonstrates more or less what I said. Macron is still trying to isolate LFI. They always were his primary target. The NFP is already a coalition of different political forces made mainly of LFI but that goes from the Communist Party, the Greens and the Socdem. These three remain, I would say, the weak link. That’s why Macron is tempting them to leave the coalition to participate in a government of national unity. They don’t fall for it, yet.
Mélenchon suggested a government deprived of any LFI ministries. Macron refused as well as the all right wing spectrum. Not only they absolutely don’t want LFI to be in charge, they also don’t want the program. And the program is the key. Because it includes the end of the retirement system reform, the minimum wage raise and the recognition of Palestine, among other things.
Mélenchon is the French Corbyn. Would Corbyn ally with Farage for political sake ? I don’t think so.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 28 2024 4:46 utc | 224

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 28 2024 4:46 utc | 223
UK Corbyn nullified … complete.
US Sanders nullified … complete.
FR Melenchon nullified …almost certain.
It is also why I have given up hope of socialists and old ‘progressive theory’ faction improving their society within the West.
West itself can not change with its legitimate process.

Posted by: Nokaz | Aug 28 2024 5:14 utc | 225

@ xiao pignouf | Aug 28 2024 4:46 utc | 223
thanks xiao… i am not aware of all this, so you shed some light on it for me.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Aug 28 2024 5:17 utc | 226

I donated to the Cornel West campaign on Friday and sent note that I’d like to help with ballot write-in certification in Texas. On Tuesday (August 27) the West Abdullah campaign announced they had secured write-in certification in Texas. I voted for a certified write-in (some socialist party) candidate in 1996 and the count for that candidate was never mentioned in any report I could get my hands on. If that happens again, I’m going to visit my state rep with friends.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Aug 28 2024 6:18 utc | 227

The UAE has frozen a contract to purchase 80 fighter jets from France: Durov’s arrest has angered the sheikhs.
– The United Arab Emirates took drastic measures by freezing a contract to purchase 80 French fighter jets following the arrest of Pavel Durov.
– The creator of Telegram, who is personally acquainted with the son of the UAE Prime Minister, found himself at the center of an international scandal that has infuriated the sheikhs to the limit.
– Experts believe that by its actions, France has made a serious mistake, provoking the anger of influential allies. Now, Paris is paying for its rashness, and the future of the deal, as well as the trust of the UAE, hangs by a thread.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/107283

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 28 2024 9:41 utc | 228

UK Corbyn nullified … complete.
US Sanders nullified … complete.
FR Melenchon nullified …almost certain.

Posted by: Nokaz | Aug 28 2024 5:14 utc | 224
Almost? I’d rather say “far from”.
There is not one third of the population behind Corbyn and Sanders.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 28 2024 10:25 utc | 229

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 28 2024 9:41 utc | 228
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/121133

🇫🇷Pavel Durov’s brother is wanted in France — Politico

https://www.politico.eu/article/exclusive-telegram-ceo-brother-nikolai-durov-wanted-france-authorities-pavel-durov/

Telegram CEO’s brother also wanted by French authorities
Arrest warrants for Pavel and Nikolai Durov were issued months earlier than previously known.

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 28 2024 11:58 utc | 230

SHENALI WADUGE ·

VENEZuela, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh & now Indonesia – who is steering the “protestors”

Who’s the world’s no 1 shit stirrer ?
Elementary Watson. !

Posted by: denk | Aug 28 2024 18:41 utc | 231

wouldn’t that be an ideal way to resolve it? Let the people who live there decide?
Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 27 2024 18:00 utc | 203
———————-
So after all that beating about the bush, back to square one.
How come that right isnt extended to the Chagosians ,for example ?
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/24/00/web-chagos-islanders-get.jpg

Posted by: denk | Aug 28 2024 19:06 utc | 232

As for Tibetan ‘refugees’….
goto
Posted by: denk | Aug 27 2024 17:08 utc | 194

Posted by: denk | Aug 28 2024 19:12 utc | 233

ZH has a posting up with the title
Mexico Pauses Relations With US, Canadian Embassies Amid Judicial Reform Concerns
the quote

“They have to learn to respect Mexico’s sovereignty,” Lopez Obrador said during a press conference on Tuesday. He noted that the pause was with the embassies and not with the countries.

The Mexican president’s remarks came a day after lawmakers in Mexico’s lower house of Congress passed the judicial reform proposal, paving the way for it to be approved when the newly elected Congress takes office in September.
The reform proposal includes a provision requiring judges to be elected by popular vote. The Mexican president has said that the reform is needed to combat judicial corruption.

That’s all you need to know…..you will know them because they project what they are doing.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 28 2024 19:31 utc | 234

Durov
5 million bail and not to leave france.
“Being placed under formal investigation in France does not imply guilt or necessarily lead to trial, but indicates that judges consider there is enough to the case to proceed with the probe. Investigations can last years before being sent to trial or shelved.” Reuters
Some background
https://archive.is/FFPt2
On the security of Telegram
https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2024/08/25/telegram-is-not-really-an-encrypted-messaging-app/
Note the e2ee is part closed source, though the author there considers it likely secure. No way to know what is truly secure of what is offered nowadays though.
Looks like it will all be a drama.

Posted by: Ornot | Aug 28 2024 20:37 utc | 235

Durov
5 million bail and not to leave france.
Posted by: Ornot | Aug 28 2024 20:37 utc | 235
Either he understands there is no hope of him staying safely in the west and gets extracted (and france wins a “crime” of which he is guilty, jumping bail)
Or tries to bet on the french judiciary not being completely compromised …
I’d probably not put too much trust on the second. Particularly as there is already noise from switzerland and his ex.

Posted by: Newbie | Aug 28 2024 21:57 utc | 236

Why are foreign cultures worthy of respect and preservation? I shall try to put up this question, and argue that it can’t be easily solved either of ways.
The problem starts with how we account for worthy achievements generally. We can’t simply claim none but our personal own, as we live among others; and if we recognize achievements of others, we also will need to account for history and tradition in which we’re finding us (for instance, whoever came up with the idea to make bread from flour and water certainly deserves a commendation). In one word, a living culture is essentially always present whenever we begin to entertain this kind of questions.
However, this culture which gives us a framework of reference to ponder various achievements is strictly in some kind of connection to us; while it may be distant, it can’t be entirely separate, as then it wouldn’t play into our question to begin with. This connection also ties us to our own moral measures when we’re facing ethical conduct of different cultures than the one we find ourselves presently in.
The point to weigh and decide, then, is this one: can we make sure that our self-ideal of worthy achievements of human civilization is universal, i.e. the ideas we fancy are so refined, sophisticated and powerful that we may use them to judge any and all ideals of worthy achievements among whichever people we may come across? Of course not, I dare say.
Exclusive monotheist religions, metaphysical materialism, or the (by now refuted) theory of a universal grammar for that matter have a level of pretense that goes as far as claiming such universality, if however more or less explicitly. This kind of view also corresponds to one of the problematic roots in western civilization, from where no end of poisonous delusions keep entering society, culture and political conduct right up to this day.
Alas. If we accept the above, we find ourselves in the company of Wilhelm von Humboldt, the linguist of the two famous brothers, who declared that linguistics has the task to collect all languages and strengthen them, so as to facilitate a process in which all of them may be able to preserve their unique and absolutely incomparable features of thought and observation. – Again, this should be the default assumption of how different languages actually work, and if you believe otherwise, I’d like to challenge you to give your argument before proceeding to slash everything that is, to try and boil it down to 1 (‘one ring to bind them all’) in a black magic melting pot.
From this now follows the final step of my not very elegant but also important argument, which is to realize that with the above we cannot hope to codify (in language) a body of ethics that could aspire to ever be truly universal. It’s simply not possible, and if it is tried anyway, there will be heartbreak, loss, and quite probably terror. It’s for this reason that nations with their own laws, codified in their respective languages, are bound to be sovereign entities among others; not withstanding a possible body of international law that covers some aspects of global national statehood, while other laws are held up to reflect particular and local cultural traditions.
But it’s not just a legal technicality. There are profound aspects of human reasoning and spirituality in play here, and we’re ill advised to refuse listening to what others have developed through their own experience of tradition and history; while disregarding them outright is of course barbaric.
If anyone wants to lead this all back to China/Tibet debate, I suggest to start with the non-interference principle, as it came out of the Westphalian peace, and is upheld by China today, among others. Tricky stuff.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 0:30 utc | 237

For those interested in that event, a little math:
https://wherearethenumbers.substack.com/p/what-is-the-probability-that-the
Am not convinced by all his arguments, but he does come down heavy on the side that the odds that foul play was involved are extremely high. It reminds me of the Trump event in that, assuming there really was a bullet and it really hit his ear, it is hard not to argue that Divine Providence had a hand in his narrowly escaping death. At the same time there are so many strange anomalies and gaps in the narrative record that the whole thing feels wobbly.
So it is with this yacht. A filthy rich guy in litigation with a huge corporation has a yacht at anchor that seemingly gets run over a twister which sank the yacht as twisters are known to be able to do. But the captain seems to have made some mistakes, although maybe that’s an unfair hindsight judgment. And one of his colleagues involved in the same lawsuit died recently too.
So in both cases: lots of things which don’t add up nicely and any hard conclusion feels wobbly.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 29 2024 1:16 utc | 238

After having read the rest of this thread, some 70+ posts, I can now answer my own question just above: somehow [!?] China held an administrative claim on Tibet, and since they turned communist, it is natural for them to do away [??] with a feudal structure of society. Duh.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 1:19 utc | 239

@Scorpion 238

it is hard not to argue that Divine Providence had a hand in his narrowly escaping death.

Okay, I’ll try.
Suppose God sent an angel to gently push Trump’s lock, or otherwise that he nudged him using his own finger tip – could you tell those cases apart? How? – No, not really.
In Parapsychology, there is report of encounter with non-bodily beings, such as spirits, ancestors, a genius loci here and there, group souls as animals have (ask a shaman), etc etc. Do those beings influence our decision-making by subtly interfering with our own pre-conscious states, emotionally or otherwise? The answer is quite clearly yes, so I say. Carl Jung calls this space the collective subconscious; I myself toyed with the term ‘intentional sphere’, or realm, for a while.
There is also a fairly specific “type” of paranormal experience which occurs somewhat often, or perhaps (likely) is reported more than others, that shows in moments of acute danger. It’s blurry when trying to define it as a notion, but in extreme cases figures show up and give clear, immediate symbols to facilitate a reaction. Hans Bender describes a classic case where a motorist is saved from a chance accident by an apparition of a policeman holding up his traffic sign thingy. But mostly such nudging would remain below the level of clear conscious awareness, as happens all the time in traffic, in team sports, or in communication with animals such as horses and dogs.
From a systematic point of view, such intuitions can not really be separated into categories of encounter (with another) vs precognition (by self); anyhow it enters the mind at times. So Trump having God’s personal safety guarantees, some flock of guardian angels, or sheer good luck there can’t be told apart, at least not from this single instance. As there are reports of Trump being an extraordinary trickster, I’d assume he would have some paranormal talents, so such an intuition in a moment of danger is not that far-fetched actually. Stranger things have happened, though mostly will go unreported.
Actual divine support is not a required assumption, btw. Bad folks have these kind of intuitions, too. They also manifestate things just as well as everyone else, as it seems.
To give another case for comparison here, do you remember that Inka legend which saw a guy with a pale horse appearing over the beach and bring a huge change? It’s likely a real premonition, but the notion went not fully clear, and so it couldn’t serve as a warning; as was either radiated by the turmoil and emotions in the future (a powerful mental energy blob), or indeed as a real warning by interested third parties. Again, these cases appear with some regularity, take as an example the revelations of Fatima.
Interestingly enough, these observations make for a strong case towards the reality of our free will. To quip, even God has merely his advise for us. – Gyiane, care to comment on that? I’d really like to hear that put into words from your view!

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 2:19 utc | 240

After God clipped the Donald around the ear has his behaviour changed?

Posted by: Ново З | Aug 29 2024 2:38 utc | 241

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 29 2024 1:16 utc | 238
Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 2:19 utc | 240
Or perhaps the guy with the gun couldn’t shoot straight.

Posted by: Walt | Aug 29 2024 2:47 utc | 242

@Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 27 2024 18:20 utc | 206
Things are going fine in HK now that we put a stop to NED shenanigans. Thanks for asking.

Posted by: Jun | Aug 29 2024 4:00 utc | 243

Posted by: Walt | Aug 29 2024 2:47 utc | 242
Economy of language wins another thread. Thanks!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Aug 29 2024 4:44 utc | 244

Economy of language wins another thread. Thanks! Or perhaps the guy with the gun couldn’t shoot straight.
I usually try to avoid getting into arguments here, preferring the pleasures of hermetic monologue, but in this case I am unable to stay put. Walt’s scenario is, now that he says it, apparently a possibility that methinks merits much more and mostly serious consideration. I however find myself out of depth, so I feel obliged to ask the barflies to put in their thoroughly illuminating analysis of Walt’s conjecture. For once, Occam’s razor seems to indicate that it may be quite hard to refute.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 5:07 utc | 245

@ persiflo | Aug 29 2024 5:07 utc | 245
A view from a perspective which transcends the shenanigans and puppetry of both modern and ancient life:
“Buddhist Ethics and the Bodhisattva Path…
Śāntideva on Virtue and Well-Being”
https://api.pageplace.de/preview/DT0400.9781350379558_A47342304/preview-9781350379558_A47342304.p

Posted by: suzan | Aug 29 2024 6:33 utc | 246

Thanks, suzan. Your link is broken though, sadly. I dug up review of the book here, and also saw that I’m offered a pdf through academia.org, which prompted me a request button requiring login, at which I failed because I’m so tired right now.
On another note, I once more recommend Talisker Soda as a summer drink. It’s so rough in taste that the refreshing plunge into a scottish harbour provides for everyone who dares, even in high levels of delu … err, dilution.
Good night, MoA.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 7:02 utc | 247

suzan, had you asked me once if Edmund Husserl has a Buddhist influence? There’s news on that now.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 7:08 utc | 248

Ha, I’ll have one more on suzan’s input – just reading the review is rich, and allows to quickly make two major points here, if only in brief.
The first relates to the difficulties of the No-thing-ness contemplation, which appears as a hurdle in the review and likely in the book itself, too. As I discovered recently with the help of a friendly subject matter expert, there is a total analogon to that in Husserl’s later philosophy. And this idea may just be accounting for Husserl’s notorious transzendentale Wende itself, as attained through the ‘phenomenological reduction’ which seems more or less apparently the very same thinking. VERY few people follow Husserl that far, and the reason mostly seems to be the same one a friendly subject matter expert pointed out just up thread from here, where he describes the difficulties of attaining higher states of self-awareness through contemplative practice and discipline: the basic thing to “get” is not hard to “get” because it’s complex or somehow remote, but because it so close to us, so deeply woven into our everyday conscious conduct, that Husserl tersely chooses to name it the ‘naive setting’ (Einstellung).
So it is at once unsurprising that the issue keeps on recurring, causing much trouble, and mind-boggling that there apparently exists an alternative, rigorously logical and indeed scientific way to approach the point in question from the foundations of western philosophy. Husserl doesn’t sell his point as a Buddhist idea, but rather he develops it himself in painfully meticulous deliberation; how his own thought progresses in relation is unclear to me at this point. It will be discovered eventually, thanks to Husserl’s habit of writing down his thought daily, 40,000 pages (in steno) of notes in all. The archive is in Köln. – While the connection is new, and afaik hasn’t been presented before, my trusted colleague who shares the Husserlian persuation and also has spent years of studying buddhist philosophy, agreed completely to it, without any argument spoken in the way of having him convinced. I say, run with it, MoA.
The second point is about Karma teachings and the role of rebirth for ethical reasoning. It’s said there are problems in arguing some specific cases from either a position of continuous (karmic) rebirth, or one lacking this proposition. However, I suspect this doesn’t really hold – for it strikes me as just too reminiscent of the old failure of western philosophy (and especially ethics) to recognize that others are present — THEY are essentially like you, or me for that matter, yet different. It’s THEIR life that takes up the role of my next karmic reincarnation in the systematic argument, this being the guess I will hazard here.
As a simple and straightforward lemma, we get the utter stupidity of self-centred evil; a gravely determining factor when searching for explanations to the geopolitical shit show we are witnessing all day.
To round out my comment, I’ll quote some bits of text also quoted in the enlightening review I’ve pointed to above, the one on the book suzan brought up here in this thread – thanks again for that, suzan!

The pathological emotions are targeted as the chief obstacles.
A. . . source of disvalue is the psychological suffering which is either constituted by or results from the pathological emotions.
Saṃvega is the affective awareness that there is no lasting happiness to be found in saṃsāric pursuits. [well well; persiflo]
Just as we experience mental pain and become angry when we are physically harmed, sentient beings also enrage us by insults. . . Śāntideva [also argues that we] should not be distressed.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 29 2024 8:27 utc | 249