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August 22, 2024
Open (Neither Ukraine Nor Palestine) Thread 2024-199
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@ Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 25 2024 1:55 utc | 186
I am not a very experienced sailor, but I believe that if one puts two anchors out, they are both from the bow and so would not tend to turn the side of the boat toward the wind for exactly the reason you describe. An ancor to the size is something that might be done in port and briefly to hold the boat in a certain position, but would only work til wind or tide changed and would be taking slight risk of incident.
Regarding the video – and excellent one and the speaker does an nice job. Yes I was surprised his assessment of the result of heeling the boat to near 90. Basically he is simply stating that the boat is literally not seaworthy – a seaworthy sailboat can roll over repeatedly and continue if the hatches are secured. Apparently the claim of “unsinkable” stem from the boat having compartments like a ship – how is that supposed to work on a yacht?. This boat has some impressive stats apparently and is in some respects a design marvel of size, speed, style and luxury. But seaworthy, it is not.
Its basically a racing boat design fitted-out with cup holders.
The point is I think that sailing is a sport and tends to be something of a community of fanatics and many are I think quite moved by what has happened and wanting to understand. The guy in the video does excellent discussion and is finding the loud pronouncement of the builder a bit suspect.
Posted by: jared | Aug 25 2024 11:00 utc | 201
Canuck 10.37
I certainly go along with that with regard to the mRNA and about 95% of what I read of his policies, but it’s his kowtowing to Israel I’d find too hard to stomach. But then I don’t have a vote in the USA so I guess it’s of no consequence.
Interestingly Galloway was singing his praises early on but then seemed to go cold on him.
Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:04 utc | 202
@ Posted by: xor | Aug 25 2024 10:57 utc | 200
It is as if he were daring them to arrest him.
They may regret it.
Posted by: jared | Aug 25 2024 11:05 utc | 203
Jared 11.00
No Scorpion is right. I keep a small boat in the Philippines which is subject to some colossal 300 kph tornados. When a wind is due captain anchors bow and stern.
Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:08 utc | 204
Sorry if this is getting a bit boring.
Anchor the bow first so the boat faces into the wind.
When the wind picks up the boat will start to wag so anchor the stern to keep it facing windward.
Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:23 utc | 205
“Canuck 10.37
I certainly go along with that with regard to the mRNA and about 95% of what I read of his policies, but it’s his kowtowing to Israel I’d find too hard to stomach. But then I don’t have a vote in the USA so I guess it’s of no consequence.
Interestingly Galloway was singing his praises early on but then seemed to go cold on him.”
Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:04 utc | 202
too
Yes, I agree-I detest his support of the Genocide too- I was surprised when Galloway was ‘praising’ him but not so mucn anymore.
@ Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:23 utc | 205
That is interesting, but I think it is a mistake.
The problem is that if secured by a single anchor the boat may start to sail side to side with unpleasant results.
So two anchors are set some distance apart so the the boat is held at the apex of a V – will not want to move side to side.
The is only one suitable point of attachment of anchors – I believe except again in special safe circumstances.
Posted by: jared | Aug 25 2024 11:33 utc | 207
Posted by: jared | Aug 25 2024 11:33 utc | 207
I don’t quite understand
If both anchors are attached to the bow then there is nothing to stop the stern wagging?
Well, never mind, let it rest.
The biggest typhoon (not tornado, my mind slipped) in recent years was Odette which passed through Cebu Christmas 22. The boat was secured in Cebu yacht club. Winds topped 300 kph. It bobbed a bit and some damage was done knocking adjacent craft, but some went down and one took four crew with it. I want to get away from the typhoon zone so we are going down to Balabac in October, which is a short distance from Sabah in Borneo. Sabah is known as the Land Below the Wind, it’s a disconnected piece of Malaysia.
Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:59 utc | 208
Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:59 utc | 208
Posted by: jared | Aug 25 2024 11:33 utc | 207
Ha! My understanding is that two anchors bow and stern will stop the vessel moving around with wind direction changes but is not advisable during heavy blows, and if the wind ends up being beam on it will hold the boat sideways against the wind and the heavy superstructure, especially with this vessel, will heel the vessel over. I could not see from the pics but looks to me like she had a fairly wide beam like many modern yachts and somewhat flat-bottomed with a deep, albeit retractable, keel. A shape like that, once it heels over beyond 90 degrees might not right without a very heavy keel and favorable wave action because remember when it is at 90 degrees, about half the deck is under water. And if the deck area was not sealed from the cabin areas below (because of a wide staircase down or very large open windows for the day cabin area with lots of sofas etc.) then she would flood in minutes. If that was the case, then Jared’s scathing remarks about toy yachts etc is on the money. Looks to me like the underlying design was excellent but the choice of making her a single (huge) masted sloop and the overly breezy, delightful deck cabin areas doomed her in this rare, intensely powerful twister scenario. Though if she had been at sea and not at anchor it would have been a different story most likely.
The stern anchor system is best in strong winds, you can have two like jared says but it’s not so necessary. When you have a bow anchor and a keel (like most monohulls), the boat will ‘hunt’ which means it goes from side to side because of the keel. If you have a retractable keel and a bow anchor then the hunting will decrease markedly. Or you use two anchors and it settles things nicely because the hunting action is restricted greatly. In very strong blows this hunting action, especially with only one anchor, will gradually unmoor all but the very best and oversized anchors which again is why stern anchor system is best because it gives a smooth action, like when on a run (with following wind) and very little tugging. But the location of the boat will swing around with wind direction and in many anchorages you cannot let that happen so two anchors are used to stop this. (Probably they should have left their anchorage and taken the boat out to sea. The most volatile places on the water are within a few hundred yards of land, that plus being close to other vessels. Apparently they had little warning?)
For an interesting explanation of stern anchoring, I highly recommend this from the inventor of the Jordan Series drogue:
https://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_14.htm . Whether or not you sail, it’s interesting. Elsewhere on the site he explains storm wave action and why his drogue is the best (it is). I would never go regular blue water sailing without one. It virtually guarantees that all will be fine if you get caught in a major storm (unless you are close to land!). Thanks to modern technology it is possible to sail the oceans without ever getting caught in a major storm system, but it happens to even the most cautious blue water sailors and very challenging when it does. Near land, again, is really hairy.
Posted by: Walt | Aug 25 2024 11:59 utc | 208
I want to get away from the typhoon zone so we are going down to Balabac in October, which is a short distance from Sabah in Borneo. Sabah is known as the Land Below the Wind, it’s a disconnected piece of Malaysia.
Jealous!!!!
LightYearsFromHome@171 “If RFKjr was going to be set up as a spoiler to steal votes from Trump the game plan would be exactly to first try and run in the DNC primary and have the party unceremoniously reject him. That would be the kayfabe.” Sorry, that seems absurd to me. If you’d written, RFK running as a Democrat, being rejected, then running as an independent to steal some votes from Trump, that would be the kayfabe, you might have a case. But that’s not what happened, thus as I said already, proving RFK was never a Democratic stalking horse. I think you’re wrong. Incidentally, the efforts by Democrats to keep RFK off the ballot proves that too. It also confirms once again every picture of the DNC as some malign puppet master operating a disciplined programmatic party is a fantasy about Democrats being secret Leninists or something.
As to RFK’s motives, without a deep dive into his finances and financial plans, couldn’t say for certain. As to his intelligence, what little I know of his anti-vax career suggests what I think of as cunning. His Zionism I no more consider a sign of intelligence and integrity than I do Trump’s or Biden’s or Harris’.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 25 2024 13:51 utc | 211
As I have noted before, Europe is being made safe from any ability of the populations of those nations to have a say in policy. In the UK, Corbyn was taken out and replaced with the establishment tool Starmer who is now the Conservative leader of the Labour Party and PM. His first priorities have been to support Ukraine, support Israel and increase the level of authoritarian rule.
The situation in France is interesting, as Macron has refused to accept the results of the parliamentary elections, creating somewhat of a constitutional crisis. Looks like he may just obstinately stick to his plan and the French establishment may help him do that. Arnaud Bertrand details this “coup” in the following twitter thread: https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1827474244856365440
Italy is already fully co-opted under Meloni, and of course von der Liegen was re-appointed as Queen of the EU.Scandinavia is fully sown up as US and NATO vassals. In Germany everyone is talking about the AfD and the new left wing party, but the reality is that the new government in late 2025 will most probably be the CDU/CSU and that will mean no change to foreign policy, and more neoliberalism at home. I detail this reality here: Germany’s 2025 Election Will Not Change Germany’s Foreign Policy
Of course Poland recently got their new Russia-hating, EU sucking, government that has already gone fully into media censorship. And now the French have arrested the head of Telegram, when will the Russian billionaires learn that they are safer at home?
Telegram messaging app CEO Pavel Durov arrested in France
The only changes to European policies will come through economic collapse and outside pressure, as probably from Trump with respect to Ukraine and continued Russian victories and strong economic growth. The utter collapse of German car sales in China this year and next will be a very major blow to Germany (the Japanese will also be hammered the same way). Add to that the mass exodus of high energy usage industries, the loss of many of the traditional German markets to Chinese competition, and government austerity and Germany is once again the “sick man of Europe”.
Re: China’s 5-Year Plans.
The jewed-up pseudo-Christian West has has apparently decided that China has become too powerful and must be “reined in” by the West.
Here’s the transcript of a brief speech delivered by Xi Jinping to the People’s Congress recently:
“In the modern era from the 19th Century, China was gradually relegated to a semi-colonial, semi-feudal country, being bullied and split by powers and fraught with wars and turmoils, devastation and killing.
“The Chinese Nation has achieved a tremendous transformation. It has stood up, grown rich, and become strong. The great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation is centred on an irreversible historical process.”
The source is the August 5 edition of abc.net.au/4corners titled The New Trade War. The speech is 3 minutes from the end of the ~45 minute episode.
I don’t think Xi was joking.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 25 2024 15:19 utc | 213
The bar is the our last refuge from empire bullhorn, right ?
—————–
From previous thread….
Canuck
I enjoy scorpion’s comments
——————–
Recently the poop breathlessly dropped a bombshell [sic]
His goto ‘China ex purt’ is none other than the nutjob Mike Adams…
CPC, GOVN NEWSOM, DOJ, conspiring to invade USA,
Chinese arms to BLM intercepted
Chinese instructors training BLM, narco gangs
Tens of thousands of military age Chinese infiltrated
USA
OMFG
Not even the best of BBC , faux news, dare to push such drivel !
This makes Clive Hamilton’s of ‘Silence Invasion’ fame looks like a choir boy.
Everybody here scoff at ‘MSM BS’,. somehow they have no qualm enjoy engaging a serial lying pos ?
Posted by: denk | Aug 25 2024 15:55 utc | 214
@Posted by: denk | Aug 25 2024 15:55 utc | 214
I used to respect Clive Hamilton for his writing on the climate, then he came to talk about his work at my academic institution. We quickly realized that we had a grade A anti-Chinese xenophobe on our hands, sad that some can be so insightful in some areas and so utterly delusional/bigoted in others.
Posted by: Roger | Aug 25 2024 16:43 utc | 215
—————–
Surprise surprise !
The ASPI is funded by gringo MIC !
Posted by: denk | Aug 25 2024 16:56 utc | 216
Posted by: Roger | Aug 25 2024 16:43 utc | 215
@Posted by: denk | Aug 25 2024 15:55 utc | 214
I used to respect Clive Hamilton for his writing on the climate, then he came to talk about his work at my academic institution. We quickly realized that we had a grade A anti-Chinese xenophobe on our hands, sad that some can be so insightful in some areas and so utterly delusional/bigoted in others.
Except I’m not a Grade A Chinese xenophobe, just someone generally concerned that materialist industrial modern societies are unbalanced and have certain serious deficiencies. I am interested in China in this regard because it is the biggest and most recent developing state. Many people here are caught up in the Evil US Empire vs the Noble Multipolarist world as an Evil vs Good narrative. I am not caught up in this narrative and have reservations not only about the US and the West but also China and other nations, more in the form of questions or doubts than confirmed conclusions and mainly because I find all developed nations are wrestling with the evils, as well as the blessings, of modernism. That is what I’m interested in, not power politics of China vs US vs Russia vs Iran etc. I don’t even believe that talking about nation states that way is realistic: they are all far more intertwined than generally recognized. It was Western finance that helped create the Chinese boom, for example, and still does, whilst at the same time deindustrializing the West. They are intertwined.
In any case, the compulsion to indulge in insult, shit-posting literally in the case of dung-mouth denk, says more about that poster’s mentality than anything else.
Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 25 2024 17:04 utc | 217
——————–
To recap
The poop‘s goto ‘China ex purt’
Exhibit A
John Whitehead
Dont be too hard on our ilites ,they learn all that dystopian shits from the chicom
B
Declan Hayes
China the bully in SCS
C
MIke Adams the nutjob
Chinese invasion imminent, arms supply to BLM intercept
Ian Fleming’s fundamental law of probability
Once is happenstance, twice coincidence….
Posted by: denk | Aug 25 2024 17:17 utc | 218
poop
Chinese arms to BLM intercepted
Would be hilarious if not for its deadly consequence.
The last time CIA/MI6 pull this stunt of ‘Chinese arms for commie uprising‘ in Indonesia, at least 3000000 were slaughtered, including almost the entire Chinese community !
Posted by: denk | Aug 25 2024 17:35 utc | 219