News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
Of interest:
Interview: Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban on his visit to Putin – (video, 40 min)
…
Back to Main
July 8, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-162
Comments
helmers article from yesterday…
NATO’S PLAN FOR PERMANENT WAR IN UKRAINE AND ON THE FAREAST FRONT — PUTIN HAS STALIN’S HITLER PROBLEM
Posted by: james | Jul 8 2024 15:12 utc | 1
It’s curious how the recognition of Biden’s dementia has caused a significant change in Ukraines approach to the war. They are ready to start talking and suddenly worrying about casualties.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jul 8 2024 15:20 utc | 2
More on the ghost-missile-of-Kiev mystery… there’s a very high probability the thing on the video is a NASAMS missile.
https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1810328039643136087
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 15:25 utc | 3
“If China, the US, and the EU would like to have a peace it’s far easier for the Ukrainians and the Russians to find a solution how to stop fighting.” ~ Orban
he’s right. that said, what is the point of the EU having a rotating president if that president cannot try out their ideas during brief presidency? I like Orban’s suggestion of including China, US, EU, Ukraine and Russia in the discussions.
China’s Xi calls on world powers to help Russia and Ukraine resume direct dialogue
Posted by: annie | Jul 8 2024 15:27 utc | 4
Orban’s significance is that he leads the populist front within the EU and even Nato. The Slovaks have his back and outside those “alliances”, Serbia does as well. Czech population is currently a bit disgruntled, while Austrian population is becoming less enamored with being a part of the Collective Wa$te.
As Ukraine’s deflation segues into a near total rout; the cracks in the EU/Nato conglomeration should develop into chasms. Erdogan’s Turkish independence means that on a continental basis; Nato is ever more toothless.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 8 2024 15:29 utc | 5
@ unimperator | Jul 8 2024 15:25 utc | 3
can you explain that for a layman a wee bit more?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS
the way i think of it, this was some anti missile that successfully re routed or broke up russias intended target, but i might be missing a lot.. thanks..
Posted by: james | Jul 8 2024 15:48 utc | 6
Posted by: james | Jul 8 2024 15:48 utc | 6
So the big news today everywhere was that a supposed children hospital was hit. The picture/video I posted shows the assumed missile that was responsible for the hit. The missile certainly doesn’t look like a cruise missile as was claimed in western MSM, missing the turbojet and larger mid-wings, but rather it looks more like a NASAMS missile.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 15:56 utc | 7
unimperator | Jul 8 2024 15:56 utc | 7
Thanks for posting those; I saw the report on Muslim Bro Media (aka al Jazeera), and read a comment on one of the open threads that remarked on the synchronicity of the event with the upcoming NATO meeting (another Russian “atrocity” right on cue).
If the video Bebo provided is legit then yes, it looks like a NATO AD missile and not a cruise missile; false flag to keep the money flowing?
Posted by: robjira | Jul 8 2024 16:05 utc | 8
@ unimperator | Jul 8 2024 15:56 utc | 7
thanks! got it!
@ robjira | Jul 8 2024 16:05 utc | 8
yes, indeed.. paul b on the other thread sarcastically noted this too..
Posted by: james | Jul 8 2024 16:08 utc | 9
for what its worth, on aviapro they say that ukrainians themself said that debris from an intercepted missile fell on the hospital. not the kiev regime of course, but ordinary ones.
the picture of the damaged building also does not look like it was hit by a missile directly (in my opinion). a video circulating on welt.de of the alleged building also looks rather intact.
my guess is that whatever the russians hit making the big booms, the kiev putsch media is using that as footage for the hospital to ramp up sympathies. especially since as already mentioned by others, the nato summit is starting tomorrow. what another coincidence again.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Jul 8 2024 16:11 utc | 11
This POS Starmer already rushed to condemn this attack made by a British missile. Meanwhile Starmer said they wholeheartedly support Israel which has deliberately destroyed every children’s hospital in Gaza.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 16:19 utc | 12
Posted by: annie | Jul 8 2024 15:27 utc | 4
——————————————-
China will only participate as a mediator not as a negotiator since China takes Putin’s side. The prostitute Z on behalf of the outlawed uS empire wants China in to cause tensions with Russia. However this route will fail. Moreover, Z does not accept Putin’s peace deal which is futile, and Putin won’t bother to even talk to the collective waste. However, the longer this impasse remains the less negotiating space left. And Odessa can be next.
Posted by: AI | Jul 8 2024 16:29 utc | 13
I just wanted to add this to the discussion about missiles in Ukraine. I don’t understand any of the details about missiles so I’m not sure if it’s relevant but the timing is noteworthy. On July 6, defence analyst and former Canadian Armed Forces member, Mike Mihajlovic posted:
“FrankenSAM is finally available in Ukraine: The U.S. engineers have been able to work with Ukrainian counterparts to modify a Soviet-era Buk M-1 system creating a hybrid. Ukrainian Operational Command “East” published the first official photos of the “old & new” system, which is the integration of RIM-7 Sea Sparrow missiles with the 9A310M1 TELAR of the 9K37M1 Buk-M1.
How efficient this system can be, time will tell. Ukraine needs at least 6 battalions to be able to say that they passed the gap created by combat losses of the original Buk-M1s and the depleted stockpiles of its missiles.
In any case, the whole attempt shall be prized – and technically it is an exciting and challenging task.”
https://x.com/MihajlovicMike/status/1809735387633668125
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jul 8 2024 16:30 utc | 14
More US-experts working for the neo-NAZI nato complex die today. “Operational/tactical aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, missile troops and artillery of the Russian groups of forces destroyed three US-made HIMARS multiple rocket launchers and up to 10 foreign specialists responsible for their use and struck massed enemy manpower and military hardware in 122 locations,” the ministry said in a statement.
Posted by: AI | Jul 8 2024 16:35 utc | 15
Its missile fell near the Okhmatdyt hospital in Kyiv: analysis of the “Military Chronicle”
The crash of an unknown missile was recorded on the afternoon of July 8 during a missile attack by the Russian Armed Forces on Kyiv. This circumstance sparked a wave of accusations against Russia for an allegedly deliberate attack on the hospital.
🟥 Could this be the X-101?
These cruise missiles are often used by the Russian Aerospace Forces to attack targets on Ukrainian territory. However, in the case of the hospital strike, the X-101 is not visually recognizable by any of the features: it lacks folding wings and a jet engine underneath. In addition, the explosion of the missile upon arrival does not correspond to the X-101 missile.
It is equipped with both a conventional warhead and a reinforced warhead weighing 800 kg, which is why it was actively used, in particular, in attacks on the Dnieper hydroelectric power station and other industrial facilities. An explosion of such an amount of explosives a few meters from the hospital would have collapsed at least half of the hospital building and caused some of the neighboring buildings to collapse, rather than scratching the facade with the damaging elements.
It is curious that pro-Ukrainian channels almost immediately published photos of some fragments of the X-101 missile allegedly found at the site of the explosion. However, this evidence is not conclusive: Kh-101s are regularly used against targets in Kyiv (and its surroundings), and some missiles are shot down by Ukrainian air defense, which leads to the fact that a significant stockpile of debris from these weapons is already being collected in Ukraine. It may well be that the debris actually belongs to the X-101 missile, but has nothing to do with its arrival at the children’s hospital.
🟥 If not Kh-101, then what kind of missile could it be?
Initially, the arrival of an anti-aircraft missile 5V55R/5V55RM from the S-300PT complex to the territory of the children’s hospital was considered, but later this information was not confirmed. The data on the arrival of a PAC-2/PAC-3 missile of the American Patriot air defense system have also not been confirmed (at least for now).
Based on the data available for analysis, in this case the arrival of an AIM-120 anti-aircraft missile of the NASAMS air defense system at the hospital building is most likely.
The missile of this anti-aircraft system is visually similar to the weapon in the footage: triangular rudders, as well as stabilizers in the center. The consequences of an explosion are also characteristic of such a missile: when a 22 kg warhead detonates, a large and fairly dense fragmentation field is formed.
🟥 Where could it have been launched from?
NASAMS (like Patriot) have long been part of Kyiv’s air defense. Judging by the trajectory, the launch complex was located 5 km south-west of the capital of Ukraine. It is likely that the missile was launched from the territory of Zhulyany airport or from launch positions a few kilometers further west. Most likely, the crew of the anti-aircraft missile system tried to intercept one of the Kh-101 cruise missiles that hit the Kyiv Artyom plant today, but the guidance system could have malfunctioned, as a result of which the missile was directed towards the courtyard of a building children’s hospital.
.
.
https://t.me/s/ukraina_ru
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 16:36 utc | 16
Ukraine has fired thousands of AA missles inside their cities. Even a successful interception could still lead to debris falling on civilians. This Russia is targeting civilian stuff is a lot of cover-up for that damage. Some might be off target hits too.
I suppose though one could argue that if Russia hadn’t fired the missle Ukraine wouldn’t have hit its stuff trying to shoot it down therefore it’s all Russias fault regardless.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jul 8 2024 16:39 utc | 17
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/08/nato-alliance-ukraine-member
Guardian reflecting the cold feet syndrome sweeping the western RC. Now, they say it would be a bad idea to allow Ukraine to join NATO.
As Trotsky said, “Force not only conquers, it convinces”. Work, brothers!
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 8 2024 16:40 utc | 18
Now all the politicians in Germany are talking about what the election result in France means for them.
On TV in particular, the left in France is friendly to Putin, anti-Semitic and hostile to NATO. Young Jews are being advised to leave France, Germany’s leadership is expecting to get no or only expensive energy from France in the winter, even though France was the Greens’ reinsurance for an energy crisis. The Greens in Germany are STILL celebrating the election result, they will have a rude awakening, these leftists are worse for Germany than Le Pen.
That is what is currently bothering the German government, not Orban’s visit to Beijing, as one would have expected.
P.S.
Russia is currently launching a new attack with around 46 missiles on Ukraine, this time the rest and the power lines to the West are the target.
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 16:53 utc | 19
In an interview for the YouTube podcast “Dialogue Works”, former US Marine Corps officer and former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter comments on the situation in Ukraine. Ritter recalls that the leader of the well-known neo-Nazi battalion “Azov” openly threatened Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky with death if he dared to negotiate with Russia.
.
The Russian armed forces have destroyed launch sites for the HIMARS multiple rocket launchers that Kiev used in the attack on Sevastopol on June 23.
According to a statement from the Ministry of Defense in Moscow, the coordinates of the targets were determined by drones. Kiev’s troops are said to have moved three weapons systems to camouflaged positions near a town in the Kherson region.
Russian units fired Iskander missile systems at these targets, the Ministry of Defense said. As a result of the attack, three launch sites of the HIMARS weapon systems equipped with ATACMS missiles were destroyed. In addition, Russia eliminated up to ten foreign specialists from the operating personnel.
Russia’s domestic intelligence service FSB has foiled the hijacking of a Tupolev Tu-22M3 supersonic bomber to Ukraine, the Center for Public Relations of the Russian Secret Service (FSB) announced on Monday.
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 16:59 utc | 20
The Russian Defense Ministry in Moscow has rejected Ukraine’s claim that it deliberately attacked a children’s hospital in Kiev. The damage there was caused by faulty air defenses and not by a Russian missile attack.
.
Claims by Ukrainian officials that Russia deliberately attacked civilian targets in Kiev on Monday were “absolutely untrue,” the Russian Defense Ministry in Moscow said.
The Ukrainian capital was rocked by a series of powerful explosions throughout the day, as numerous videos published by local media show. According to reports, civilians are among the victims.
Against an “attack from Russia”: NATO plans to increase its numbers by 50 brigades
Against an “attack from Russia”: NATO plans to increase its numbers by 50 brigades
Ukrainian Prime Minister Vladimir Zelensky accused Moscow of deliberately targeting a well-known children’s hospital and said “it is impossible that Russia does not know where its missiles are flying and it must answer for its crimes.”
Ukrainian Interior Minister Igor Klimenko called Russia “a nation of terrorists and scum,” adding that at least seven people were killed in the capital.
The Russian military confirmed that it fired a series of long-range missiles on Monday, but stressed that they were aimed at military factories and airfields in Ukraine.
People in Kyiv outside the Okhmatdit Children’s Hospital on June 08, 2024.
Emergency Situation Ministry of Ukraine
“The claims of representatives of the Kyiv regime that Russia is deliberately targeting civilian facilities are absolutely untrue,” the statement said.
“Numerous photos and videos from Kyiv irrefutably confirm the destruction caused by a Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile fired from a launcher inside the city,” it said.
Russia reportedly used Kinzhal-type air-launched hypersonic missiles in the attack. Senior Ukrainian officials have claimed that these weapons can be intercepted by the Patriot missile systems. Last week, a senior air defense commander said that so far no Kinzhal missile has penetrated the US shield, although Moscow has fired more than 20 of these missiles.
“Across the entire Black Sea” – Ukraine asks the West for submarines
“Across the entire Black Sea” – Ukraine asks the West for submarines
“All Kinzhal missiles fired at the Ukrainian capital since the announcement of the deployment of Patriot systems have been successfully stopped. Since May 2023, not a single ballistic missile has reached its target in the capital,” Colonel Sergei Yaremenko, commander of the 96th Air Defense Brigade, told Ukrinform news agency.
Moscow has previously claimed that Kyiv exaggerates its interception rates. The Ukrainians claim to have shot down more Kinzhal missiles than Russian forces have actually used, according to senior Russian military officials. There is currently no evidence that the Patriot system is capable of launching hypersonic ballistic missiles.
.
.
https://rtde.live/europa/211680-unwahr-russland-weist-ukrainische-behauptung/
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 17:06 utc | 21
Southfront article on the extensive strikes in Ukraine on July 8th.
Places: Zhitomir, Chernihiv, Kharkiv, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Sumy, Poltava, Kherson, Zaporozhie regions.
At 2 p.m. the Ukrainian Air Force officially declared the air defense forces destroyed 30 Russian missiles, including 1 hypersonic Kinzhal, despite the fact that the Ukrainian military has no means to shot down such missiles. The other destroyed missiles allegedly included:
3 Iskander-M missiles,
12 Kalibr missiles,
11 Kh-101 missiles,
3 Kh-59/69 missiles.
The blatant lies of the Ukrainian military are refuted by the horrific damage that it suffered.
Some (not all) of the recognized targets:
-Patriot battery + western weapon specialists in Zhuliany airport (Kiev)
-Luch Design Bureau, which is a major Ukrainian developer of components for the defense industry
-Artem holding company, which is producing the missiles and other weapons
-three energy substations in the Goloseevsky and Shevchenko districts of Kyiv
-Ozerny airfield, Zhitomir
-Starokonstantinov, Khmelnitsky region
-Voznesensk, Mykolaiv region
-Mirgorod, Poltava region
-Dnepropetrovsk
-Northern Mining and Processing plant (used by AFU), Krivoy Rog
-Ukrainian military hideout, DPR
-industrial zone facilities in Pokrovsk
-targets in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk
-Novokramatorsky machine-vuilding plant, smoke spotted
-thwarted AFU attacks in RU rear areas by striking ATACMS launchers immediately after their deployment
Shown in addition to the NASAMS that struck the hospital, other video shows a disintegrating Patriot PAC-3 missile falling from the sky on civilians.
https://southfront.press/detailed-overview-of-massive-russian-strikes-across-ukraine-on-july-8-2024/
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 17:08 utc | 22
https://swentr.site/news/600648-poland-ukraine-russian-missiles
Natzo inner tier working hard simultaneously to distance themselves (to focus on spinning their plates in Asia or ME) while pushing outer tier Poles to the meat grinder.
Won’t help soldiers in the trenches. Could dramatically increase duration and costs on all sides.
Posted by: despondent | Jul 8 2024 17:12 utc | 23
“On TV in particular, the left in France is friendly to Putin, anti-Semitic and hostile to NATO.”
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 16:53 utc | 19
Friendly with Putin and anti NATO is just rational thinking, ossi. Look at the scoreboard.
As for this claim that those rational, reality based thinkers are also antisemitic…I’m guessing that means–when translated from Imperialist language to reality based language–that they oppose the genocide Israel has been committing for nearly a year on helpless women and children because they are not Jews.
Again, these French leftists sound like reasonable folks. Wish we had such perspectives on TV in the states.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 8 2024 17:14 utc | 24
This wide daylight strike was different and a message to Kiev, people across the city could see the huge smoke plumes. The war is moving westward and soon will wreck their illusion of distance and safety.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 17:15 utc | 25
Selenski: Targeted Russian attack on children’s hospital
Ukrainian President Volodimir Zelensky has rejected Russian claims of an air defense error at a children’s hospital in Kiev that was hit. “What cynicism the bastards in the Kremlin have shown, that it was allegedly Ukrainian air defense and not a targeted missile strike,” said the Ukrainian head of state at a press conference with Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk in Warsaw.
Selenski thanked all those who have posted videos on the Internet “which show concretely that it is not just a part of one or another missile, but a direct missile strike that killed and injured many people”.
little green cocaine-man is angry.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Jul 8 2024 17:15 utc | 26
Selenski: Will set up new Ukrainian legion in Poland
Ukrainian President Volodimir Zelensky announces the formation of a new Ukrainian force on Polish territory. During a visit to Warsaw, he calls on Ukrainians abroad to join this unit. Since the beginning of the Russian attack on Ukraine in February 2022, many people have fled to neighboring Poland in particular, including men of conscription age.
to the last ukrainian, even those abroad.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Jul 8 2024 17:18 utc | 27
Posted by: james | Jul 8 2024 15:12 utc | 1
LOL.
Yankee, british and canadian troops in Ukraine?! LOL
Again western propaganda.
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 17:24 utc | 28
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 8 2024 17:14 utc | 24
.
.
I also meant that optimistically, as a slap in the face to those who demonized Le Pen and then cheered…now at least for the DE system they get the opposite
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 17:27 utc | 29
james @ 1
Good article by Helmer. Buckle up.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 17:34 utc | 30
aristodemos the cracks in the EU/Nato conglomeration should develop into chasms.
faster please.
AI China will only participate as a mediator not as a negotiator since China takes Putin’s side.
how refreshing, if only US could be so accommodating.
the longer this impasse remains the less negotiating space left. And Odessa can be next.
sounds hopeful. my personal preference is for Ukraine to collapse after Russia takes Odessa.
Posted by: annie | Jul 8 2024 17:52 utc | 31
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 16:53 utc | 19
In Europe, everything that is not perfectly aligned with the narration is Putin friend, by definition.
Before the left wing in France the right wing of Le Pen was ‘recignized: as Putin friend.
I order to not to “be” a Putin friend you must be full throttle with Nato, euroatlanticism and side with USA.
Posted by: Mario | Jul 8 2024 17:55 utc | 32
despondent | Jul 8 2024 17:12 utc | 23
The inner tier isn’t distancing at all. Aren’t they preparing 50 brigades now? And all new bases. Xi PingPing is investing now in Poland, big sudden friendship. These are no coincidences. It’ll take some time and money for nato to prepare but that’s no problem, the smo is not going to liberate Donbass or create a threat to nato anyway, they have as much time as they want. And Kiev is still safer than any city in Russia. the only danger in Kiev comes from their own missiles and forced mobilization
Posted by: rk | Jul 8 2024 18:05 utc | 33
“As all nations race to secure uranium and control the future of energy, a shortage has emerged, turning even allies into potential competitors. Will energy prices surge this winter – and will it lead to an expanded war?”
Spoken by a newscaster on the television, and from the Amazon Video original series Fallout. It’s a flashback scene prior to a globally devastating nuclear war which (SPOILER ALERT!)
we see revealed was probably brought about due to the MIC egging on confrontations with “the Reds”, and even undermining a last ditch peace talks summit, all so they could sell more weapons to the government, and more spots in fallout shelters to the populace. Those shelters are called Vaults, and are enormous and communal.
Yadda yadda yadda, keep it under our hats, but so far the writers seem to be aware of what is what in current affairs, though of course they had the world history of the video games to go by. Still, the show has a “ripped from the headlines” vibe.
Hopefully the SMO is over soon.
Posted by: Babel-17 | Jul 8 2024 18:25 utc | 34
Well, judging by the absolute apesh#t reactions within the western political and media lunatic asylum. I am going to call this assumed hospital strike the false flag, timed just before the Nato summit to increase coherency to ‘support Ukraine to the end’.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 18:29 utc | 35
@ unimperator | Jul 8 2024 18:29 utc | 35
definitely… classic propaganda, timed for the start of the nato summit…
Posted by: james | Jul 8 2024 18:33 utc | 36
And Kiev is still safer than any city in Russia.
Posted by: rk | Jul 8 2024 18:05 utc | 33
Stupid.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2024 18:38 utc | 37
Ukrainian AA is an open sieve in Kiev.
3 strikes video ==> https://t.me/rezervsvo/61948
Posted by: too scents | Jul 8 2024 18:38 utc | 38
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2024/07/although-in-russian.html
” … you can clearly see the “effectiveness” of the US-made air-defense which is hidden inside clusters of buildings in Kiev and you can clearly see what looks like NASAMS AIM-120 losing guidance and hitting Kiev’s buildings.
As per destruction of three M-270s with ATACMS together with “foreign” crews–that is what expects now all those American “volunteers”.
Including those ass-holes from “Chosen” who still think (due to them being only good at executing POWs) that Russians do not know who they are and where they are. Kiev regime may expect repetition of such arrivals in the nearest future, until the whole 404 will not become de-electrified, which is near.
Now, about this “operation” of trying to get Russian TU-22M3.
Same ol’ “Operation Moolah”–one trick ponies they are. They still think that Russians live in 1990s and that anyone other than ass-holes such as low life who killed his crew members and ran away with Mi-17 Helicopter, will be interested. So, FSB played the game and then VKS blew up the airstrip where this TU-22M3 was supposed to land. ”
Posted by: guest | Jul 8 2024 18:47 utc | 39
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 18:29 utc | 35
The AIM-7 and AIM-120 missiles that the NASAMS uses have zero ability for ground to ground targeting. In fact the older AIM-7, as a beam rider, is the only one of the two that could theoretically be used in air to ground however no aircraft have ever been provisioned to do that.
Posted by: badjoke | Jul 8 2024 18:49 utc | 40
“On TV in particular, the left in France is friendly to Putin, anti-Semitic and hostile to NATO.”
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 16:53 utc | 19
I have know French leftists through business and I wouldn’t say that they are, ‘anti-semitic’, rather ‘anti-Zionist’.
As am I; and a lot of the world is catching up.
Although UK has Blair 2.0, it seems France has seen a change to anti war in their elections.
With Europe having to make the decision to go to war with Russia or peace with Russia, basically shit or get off the pot, the Euro split – end of Nato and EU entities may be at hand.
With the recent strikes, it appears party time in Kiev is also over.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 8 2024 18:55 utc | 42
What’s unclear is why they think, after pounding all the hospitals along with the patients inside to dust in Gaza with the grinning acceptance of the Western establishment ghouls, that those same ghouls hold any moral ground or have any capacity to excite a sense of injustice based on the purported actions of their opponents. Not only bloodthirsty monsters, but utterly stupid.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jul 8 2024 18:58 utc | 43
Doctor Eleven | Jul 8 2024 18:58 utc | 43
In Syria, Russia defeated the headchoppers by bombing hospitals, schools, cute little kittens and puppies. Empire propaganda never changes. Always projection.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 8 2024 19:02 utc | 44
With Europe having to make the decision to go to war with Russia or peace with Russia, basically shit or get off the pot, the Euro split – end of Nato and EU entities may be at hand.
With the recent strikes, it appears party time in Kiev is also over.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 8 2024 18:55 utc | 42
If we see NATO fringe states somehow warring with Russia, there is a high probability it will also be the final climax that also marks the final split and end of Nato.
Whatever war starts will not last long, as those populations figure out Nato has just reneged on the article 5 which they might have earlier thought is a universal truth. No joke, a lot of people in Poland, Baltets and Funland/Sweden think they are sacred and US oligarchs will kill themselves for them. The stupid ones will swallow up official propaganda but populations are split, making the end come much faster. It will not drag out like Ukraine, at all. Russia can easily defeat non-committed and uncertain fringe states who have no friggin’ clue what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve, if it goes to that, just throwing a bunch of wannabe nazi’s into a forest.
Let’s hope Nato simply withers away by the end of the decade without going that far. The recent comments by people like Pistorius and admiral Rob Bauer of having to go to war ‘by 2029’ are encouraging and indicate no real commitment or planning from Nato. The other end of the sword is US neocons seeing they will gradually lose grip so they might simply force a war. It’s hard to predict, but we are nearing NATO end game and this is precisely the most unstable moment.
Most likely what happened was Nato betting on Ukraine, after that there is nothing, all are bluffs. Ukraine is done soon, and Nato with it.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 19:15 utc | 45
The Turks have already said they will reject an article 4 call for assistance if the Eurotrash decide to go into Ukraine and get smacked for it. That also means that the Greeks will not send Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 19:15 utc | 4 army as they don’t trust the Turks. So that is the only two NATO armies worth a fuck that do not have to cross and ocean to get to the fight. Article 5 does not apply if they send troops to engage another military outside their own territory even if the Russians lay waste to every base in their country as a response.
Posted by: badjoke | Jul 8 2024 19:28 utc | 46
Jynese troops land in Belarus
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202407/1315551.shtml
Shits getting serious
Posted by: PalmaSailor | Jul 8 2024 19:48 utc | 47
This wide daylight strike was different and a message to Kiev.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 17:15 utc | 25
Good point. They’re not just turning out the lights, they’re letting the population know that’s exactly what they’re doing.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jul 8 2024 19:49 utc | 48
Dima has a detailed analysis on the air strikes. And of course the situation on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVRLI1vVVEQ
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 19:57 utc | 49
I doubt that there ever was a primary explosion, that is the explosion of a warhead with between 20 (AIM-120) and 500 (Kinzhal) kg of explosives. If there had been, we wouldn’t be talking about 15 children killed, but 150, given the size of this hospital. And not much would be left standing, from subsequent explosions of gas pipes, oxygen tanks and the like. There would also be ravaging fires, from all the textiles, disinfectants etc. Instead, we can see the intact hospital playgrounds, and there’s not even debris lying around.
The usual sickening UA prank. These people really deserve the Zelensky they have.
Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 8 2024 20:07 utc | 50
Dima says that now Poland is from now going to target Russian missiles from Polish territory. This means that Russia would not be able to attack these AA systems.
Putin has waited to long.
Posted by: vargas | Jul 8 2024 20:08 utc | 51
Dima says a lot of things, and a few of them actually turn out to be true.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jul 8 2024 20:11 utc | 52
Dima says a lot of things, and a few of them actually turn out to be true.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jul 8 2024 20:11 utc | 52
I have no odea who he is. But I do know after having read enough “Dima says” posts here, I dont care or need to know who he is.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2024 20:14 utc | 53
1) true. 2) not even remotely similar to “Vietnam” 3) true 4) whatever you say, dude.
Last: true.
From the previous thread:
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 6 2024 17:37 utc | 34
Very sorry to say this, but approving a known troll makes you also a troll in that case.
1) Not true unless you believe the ukronazi and western propaganda.
3) Not true at all. The chechen islamist mercenaries are fighting together on the side of the ukronazis. The Chechens under Kadyrov are fighting with the Russian army as regular troops.
4) Prigozhin was a crook and a traitor, his case is settled.
Last) Not true. The empire is falling. And denazification is not a civil war.
(Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 17:16 utc | 479)
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 20:18 utc | 54
Posted by: vargas | Jul 8 2024 20:08 utc | 51
Well, Dima just told the reports from this issue. AFU/Polish air force are practicing together on shooting down missiles ‘flying toward Poland’, essentially probably anything heading toward Lwow.
In practice it probably means Poland sets up Patriot PAC batteries on the SE corner of Poland and tries to target RU missiles from the territory of Poland. Considering PAC-3 has a range of 100km and isn’t generally very good anyway, they will achieve very little from Polish territory.
If Poland deploys PAC-3 batteries in Ukraine, they might cover more area, but I really doubt Poland would do this. PAC-3 is incapable of defending itself, especially against Kinzhals which RU will use to hit them. So the entire issue is a nothing burger if you use a bit of logical work and brains to figure it out.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 20:21 utc | 55
And Kiev is still safer than any city in Russia. the only danger in Kiev comes from their own missiles and forced mobilization
Posted by: rk | Jul 8 2024 18:05 utc | 33
Exactly … Russian missiles don’t miss and all the muggers and rapists are afraid to leave the house.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 8 2024 20:21 utc | 56
In Syria, Russia defeated the headchoppers by bombing hospitals, schools, cute little kittens and puppies. Empire propaganda never changes. Always projection.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 8 2024 19:02 utc | 44
In Alep the Russian targeted an hospital because:
1) there was no civilian left inside;
2) it was used by the terrorists.
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 20:23 utc | 57
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 16:36 utc | 16
Looks like an kh-101 around the tail.
I see that before this Poland signed a deal with Ukraine that Poland would (try to) shoot down Russian missiles/drones over Ukraine that come near the Polish Ukrainian border. The NATO summit is this week. I wouldn’t be surprised if NATO pushes up a little closer to whatever red lines they perceive based on this incident.
Posted by: Ed4 | Jul 8 2024 20:25 utc | 58
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 8 2024 17:14 utc | 24
.
.
I also meant that optimistically, as a slap in the face to those who demonized Le Pen and then cheered…now at least for the DE system they get the opposite
Posted by: ossi | Jul 8 2024 17:27 utc | 29
Honestly, I still don’t get it, but whatever.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 8 2024 20:28 utc | 59
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 20:18 utc | 54
I later corrected point 3. The rest, ok, your opinion is yours.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2024 20:39 utc | 60
In France all parties with deputies at the parlement support the ukronazis.
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 20:45 utc | 61
In France all parties with deputies at the parlement support the ukronazis.
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 20:45 utc | 61
But that applies to almost all countries in Europe – that’s what we call democracy here, i.e. the special form of democracy that the USA enables in its dominions.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Jul 8 2024 20:53 utc | 62
fyi
Opinion
Nato
The Nato alliance should not invite Ukraine to become a member
Open letter
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/08/nato-alliance-ukraine-member
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jul 8 2024 21:08 utc | 63
Anyone read the ‘Open Letter’ published in the Guardian on why Nato should not invite Ukraine to become a member? Why anyone would put their name to this farrago of bullshit and craven hypocrisy I will never understand.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 8 2024 21:27 utc | 65
Those who see here a Russian missile need to check their eyes:
https://t.me/intelslava/62768
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 21:27 utc | 66
unimperator @ 55
So, how many patriots does the west have? If it had that many extra they’d already be in Ukraine, what’s Poland have or will have 4-5 batteries? Russians will launch decoys or just larger waves until they run out, then Poland has no more air defense for itself just at the start of WW3 with them stupidly stuck in the middle just like last time.
Why do people think Russia won’t hit Poland? Russia’s not going to lose their hard won momentum, all those lives lost, they rectified the original SMO mistake and this is now a one shot deal, they are going to keep going forward, if NATO stalls them they will hit NATO. I’m guessing they are just about consolidated and stocked up at this point to do so. I wonder if Clown World is as ready as they imagine?
Oh, and the PLA is getting its feet wet in Belarus.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 21:29 utc | 67
I later corrected point 3. The rest, ok, your opinion is yours.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2024 20:39 utc | 60
I am waiting for the other corrections.
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 21:33 utc | 68
Opinion
Nato
The Nato alliance should not invite Ukraine to become a member
Open letter
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jul 8 2024 21:08 utc | 63
The most probable logical reason is they are cutting 404 lose. Why?
Because the FUKUS figured out 404 is a anchor weighing on their ankle and they could go to the bottom. A lot of irreversible damage is already done. The liberals are not very smart. US is getting kicked out of the non-west everywhere, longer this goes on, they could lose rest of the west.
Nato/EU membership was the only official reason why Ukraine is fighting.
The unofficial reason why Ukraine is fighting are all the bribes to Rada deputies in exchange for keeping total mobilization going, Zelensky and gang, and US support to Azov nazis.
The RADA deputies/officials/Ze gang will disappear like a fart in the wind at the moment where there’s no more prospect of keeping the money spigot on.
It will be interesting to see if they follow up cut of funding to Ukraine. If we look at what IMF did, demanding to raise taxes plus resume payment of bond interests and principal, they could be cutting funding.
There is most likely a split. US is the one who will cut it lose, while UK/EU will try to prop it up.
But with the official reason scratched, the unofficial reason cannot last forever, either. Russia will be dictating terms.
Whether Ukraine is any longer coherent enough to have a unified government is another question. Perhaps, more likely, individual regions can still have local administrations, and they will start voting processes where they want to be.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 21:34 utc | 69
Changing to daytime attacks on industrial facilities in Kiev is a smart move. The workers in these plants will be much more wary of attending work now they know that they are not as safe during the day as they were before, when the Russia only attacked at night..
Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 8 2024 21:35 utc | 70
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 21:29 utc | 67
Poland will try to use RU missiles in western Ukraine using PAC-systems from Polish territory, is my guess.
PAC systems are pretty short ranged so they can achieve little, anyway.
If Poland deploys it’s PAC systems in western Ukraine itself, RU can hit them with Kinzhals or something.
That is why it’s most likely a nothingburger.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 21:38 utc | 71
Naive @ 66
Those who see here a Russian missile need to check their eyes
Bit of a masterful shot from a bystander with a cellphone, would be award winning from a pro photographer with a tripod and a fast burst camera, probably harder than photographing lightning. Likely Photoshop from Rusikie social media, I doubt it’s official psyops as I doubt the MoD gives much of shit about justifying themselves. Fake or real doesn’t really matter, only the factory farmed chickens in the west believe Russia targeted a children’s hospital, in Kiev the truth will be clear and will only damage Banderastan.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 21:43 utc | 72
Posted by: vargas | Jul 8 2024 20:08 utc | 51
Dima says that now Poland is from now going to target Russian missiles from Polish territory. This means that Russia would not be able to attack these AA systems. Putin has waited to long.
<=I think it means Russia will soon have justification, permission and legal authority to attack directly all of the countries involved in targeting a Russian missile .. Just as soon as a missile of any origin comes from a place outside of Ukraine which shoots at, or takes down, a Russian Missile where ever in the world that event happens.
Explain to me why that would not be the case?
Then again China, who just signed a security agreement with Belarus, might target Polish missiles from either Belarus or Ukraine? What's to keep China from downing Polish missiles fired from Poland in the event Poland attacks Russian Missiles? We have the makings of WWIII..
Things are likely to get warm in Poland.
Posted by: snake | Jul 8 2024 21:53 utc | 73
Oh, and the PLA is getting its feet wet in Belarus.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 21:29 utc | 67
Indeed, and this is why the SCO is more potent than BRICS. Belarus just became a member, and a week later military drills under the SCO auspices are announced. This could also mean Indian, Pakistani, and Iranian troops in Belarus at some point – temporarily of course, but still it should be enough to give the West pause in pressing Belarus.
Posted by: James M. | Jul 8 2024 21:59 utc | 74
@snake | Mon, 08 Jul 2024 21:53:00 GMT | 73
Then again China, who just signed a security agreement with Belarus,
It’s not a new security agreement, not a bilateral one. Belarus joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organization last week. Under those auspices, members conduct regular military exercises. So China, Russia, as well as India, Pakistan, Iran, and most of the Central Asian republics could potentially send troops to Belarus. Temporarily of course, but the message to NATO is pretty clear.
Posted by: James M. | Jul 8 2024 22:13 utc | 75
James M. @ 75
Yes, but here it’s really about China. In through the backdoor, it’s a hybrid war after all.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 8 2024 22:18 utc | 76
Makes you wonder what woulda happened had the us not given cookies and cakes away just before maiden.
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 8 2024 22:24 utc | 77
🇩🇪🏴☠️🇺🇦 Germany handed over a new aid package to Ukraine:
– Patriot air defense system and missile defense system
– ammunition for Leopard 1 tanks
– 2 self-propelled multifunctional radars TRML-4D;
– 30 Vector reconnaissance UAVs with spare parts;
– 200 mobile devices for jamming drones;
– 10 autonomous sea boats;
– 4 Wisent 1 engineering tanks and an armored recovery vehicle with spare parts;
– 10 armored cars and 3 patrol jeeps;
– 55 thousand 155 mm shells and 9 thousand shells for Gepard anti-aircraft tanks;
– satellite communication terminals, night vision goggles, assault and sniper rifles, machine guns and ammunition for them, smoke bombs, explosives and detonators.
Posted by: Jo | Jul 8 2024 22:28 utc | 78
Orban jet setting the globe? The man of the hour. He does seem to have everyone’s attention. Let’s hope something good comes from it.
Really high Ukie body counts from the RF MOD these past few days. Such senseless slaughter.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 8 2024 22:30 utc | 79
Germany handed over a new aid package to Ukraine:
– Patriot air defense system and missile defense system
– ammunition for Leopard 1 tanks
– 2 self-propelled multifunctional radars TRML-4D;
– 30 Vector reconnaissance UAVs with spare parts;
– 200 mobile devices for jamming drones;
– 10 autonomous sea boats;
– 4 Wisent 1 engineering tanks and an armored recovery vehicle with spare parts;
– 10 armored cars and 3 patrol jeeps;
– 55 thousand 155 mm shells and 9 thousand shells for Gepard anti-aircraft tanks;
– satellite communication terminals, night vision goggles, assault and sniper rifles, machine guns and ammunition for them, smoke bombs, explosives and detonators.
Still convinced Germany trying to beat Poland to make war against Russia
Posted by: Jo | Jul 8 2024 22:32 utc | 80
Xinhuanet has a posting up about the Xi/Orban meeting
Hungary advocates strengthening cooperation with China and opposes forming exclusionary cliques and bloc confrontation, Orban said.
He added that Hungary highly appreciates and values China’s role and influence and is willing to maintain close strategic communication and coordination with China.
Hungary is willing to take the rotating EU presidency as an opportunity to actively promote the sound development of EU-China relations, he said.
I am looking forward to what Orban has to say to NATO in Washington.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 8 2024 22:57 utc | 81
Watching the video, it would be interesting to know what that missile hit. It hit some distance off the hospital, the blast not much more than knocking in the windows. Blast seemed large for an anti air missile, but I don’t know what warheads US put in theirs. S-300 if an air defense missile?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 8 2024 23:05 utc | 82
Changing to daytime attacks on industrial facilities in Kiev is a smart move. The workers in these plants will be much more wary of attending work now they know that they are not as safe during the day as they were before, when the Russia only attacked at night..
Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 8 2024 21:35 utc | 70
True, and it’s highly likely that many are conscripted mugs unfit for the frontline, which makes them military personnel and thus legit targets in Russia’s eyes. Also, they would be overseen by soldiers. Any factory of drone makers is in effect an ammunition factory. Boom.
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 8 2024 23:18 utc | 83
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 21:38 utc | 71
Patriots fired from Poland will certainly cover Lviv. Likely queued from AWACS or maybe space based sensors. Likely do a reasonable job against cruise missiles and drones.
Does Poland have any PAC-2’s? They have a longer range than the PAC-3’s.
Posted by: Ed4 | Jul 8 2024 23:20 utc | 84
About the hospital strike:
1. maybe Banderites are trying to minimize their complicity in the Crimean beach bombing….see, Russians also kill children…and in a hospital makes them even “more innocent” than on a beach;
2. then it will be used as a justification (as if they ever needed one) for a future strike against Russian civilians…Z-puppet has alread vowed revenge;
3. aside from preparing for the NATO summit, this story also conveniently masks any current Zionist atrocities in Gaza.
Posted by: Peter b | Jul 8 2024 23:21 utc | 85
“Any factory of drone makers is in effect an >>>ammunition<<< factory". Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 8 2024 23:18 utc | 83 Oops, meant >>>weapons<<< factory.
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 8 2024 23:26 utc | 86
Well, judging by the absolute apesh#t reactions within the western political and media lunatic asylum. I am going to call this assumed hospital strike the false flag, timed just before the Nato summit to increase coherency to ‘support Ukraine to the end’.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2024 18:29 utc | 35
Certainly possible, but if so, one of the lamest of false flags imaginable. Russia has been hitting hospitals going back to Mariupol, according to the MSM. Never made a difference in how the average person in the West feels about the war. The false flag to start WWIII will have to have bigger teeth than that!
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 8 2024 23:34 utc | 87
As usual, the evidence of a concussive blast demolishing part of a building is strong enough to believe on its face but no other elements of this story are clear to the observer. The blast site is a canvas to paint propaganda upon. Whether credible or not is in the eye of the beholder.
Posted by: a stone | Jul 8 2024 23:35 utc | 88
Jake Blanchard | Jul 8 2024 23:26 utc | 86
Flat pack assembly plant. The only thing that Ukraine seems to have made since the collapse of the Soviet Union was a very good anti tank man portable missile system. Was operated with a laptop type console. Don’t see much of them anymore though.
Ukraine was the leading SSR in Soviet Union, but in the intervening 30 years of corruption, there would have been quite a brain drain along with neglected infrastructure.
The few pics of what the Ukies have posted as new weapons factories are basically car basements of buildings with no equipment. Essentially assembly areas where kit can be put together with a few hand tools.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 8 2024 23:41 utc | 89
Well the last thing russia would do is intentionally strike a hospital. If it wanted to do a terror campaign it could have at any time.
Possibilities:
1. An off target strike. Seems unlikely because there’s not enough damage.
2. A missile glanced by air defense. Seems unlikely because there’s the video still showing an intact missile.
3. A strike on a building within the hospital complex being used by the VSU. Possible and even probable, but if this is the case it indicates that Russia is much more serious because it took the risk of striking a hospital campus. (The same is true for striking a substation on the campus.)
4. An errant air defense missile. Highly likely. It would explain the video still and the level of hospital damage we’ve seen. Plus Kiev has a habit of it and US air defense have a reputation for it.
5. A false flag. Unlikely because it’s likely an AIM 120 and they don’t have a ground fire mode. Plus Kiev doesn’t seem organized enough to take advantage of the raid timing. Still possible. The walls are closing in on Bankova.
In the end, the faux outrage from the west is pretty laughable given the response to Israel’s deliberate bombing of hospitals over and over again. In the RoW, Moscow’s explanation will carry more weight simply because Russia doesn’t have a habit of bombing hospitals, so at worst it really is a tragic mistake.
Posted by: Lex | Jul 8 2024 23:43 utc | 90
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 8 2024 23:34 utc | 87
################
Friend, a false flag inside of Kiev may be entirely for a domestic audience. Don’t miss the forest for the trees.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jul 8 2024 23:43 utc | 91
Posted by: PalmaSailor | Jul 8 2024 19:48 utc | 47
That’ll be the benefit of being an SCO full member then. Mutual, INSTANT security partners.
“The Chinese and Belarusian armies will hold a joint anti-terrorism exercise shortly after Belarus officially joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO),”
Been saying as much for a while.
Guess where next?
Clue -it’s in Persia..
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 8 2024 23:47 utc | 92
Re: Strike on Okhmatdyt hospital. If you locate the hospital on google maps and go to Beresteiskyi Ave (streetview), you will find the viewpoint from the video. This is south of the hospital and this means the missile came from the west.
Posted by: MG | Jul 8 2024 23:53 utc | 93
Guess where next?
Clue -it’s in Persia..
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 8 2024 23:47 utc | 92
Iran’s already a member of the SCO. If you mean Turkey, that would be a gigantic geopolitical earthquake. Saudi Arabia is also a good candidate. Mongolia too. But I suspect there may be a pause in new members for a few years, they don’t want to expand the organization too quickly.
Posted by: James M. | Jul 8 2024 23:55 utc | 94
If you want to know what an arrival of a Russian missile looks like, see and hear this:
https://t.me/boriskarpovrussie/136830
All Russian missiles were intercepted by their targets.
Posted by: Naive | Jul 8 2024 23:58 utc | 95
Friend, a false flag inside of Kiev may be entirely for a domestic audience. Don’t miss the forest for the trees.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jul 8 2024 23:43 utc | 91
Thanks for the advice. However, the domestic audience in Kiev or Lvov cannot make a real difference in the war’s final result. The Ukraine cannot win on its own. A false flag needs to draw in outsiders to be effective at this point. There is already enough hate on the side of average Ukrainians (the ones trying ton use the internet who are not on the front) due to the power outages alone.
This was clearly an accident that the Kievan authorities are attempting to capitalize on – big difference from a deliberate false flag.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 8 2024 23:59 utc | 96
It seems strange to me that kiev put a strict ban on mobile phone users filming and uploading missile attacks “because they aid the enemy” and then theres a plethora of such videos on this particular incident.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 8 2024 23:59 utc | 97
It seems strange to me that kiev put a strict ban on mobile phone users filming and uploading missile attacks “because they aid the enemy” and then theres a plethora of such videos on this particular incident.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 8 2024 23:59 utc | 97
Excellent point, as always!
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 9 2024 0:02 utc | 98
But that applies to almost all countries in Europe – that’s what we call democracy here, i.e. the special form of democracy that the USA enables in its dominions.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Jul 8 2024 20:53 utc | 62
Germany: AfD and Wagenrecht
Switzerland: Volkspartei + Neutrality initiative
Hungary: Orban
Slovakia: Fico
France: Asselineau, Philippot = micro parties which have no access to the msm.
Posted by: Naive | Jul 9 2024 0:03 utc | 99
However, the domestic audience in Kiev or Lvov cannot make a real difference in the war’s final result. The Ukraine cannot win on its own. A false flag needs to draw in outsiders to be effective at this point.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 8 2024 23:59 utc | 96
#############
I recommend you don’t perform analysis with a conclusion already in mind. That can lead you in unprofitable directions.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jul 9 2024 0:03 utc | 100