Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 6, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-159

News & views related to the war in Ukraine …

Of interest:

In Ukraine, Killings of Surrendering Russians Divide an American-Led Unit (archived) – New York Times
A German medic said he was so troubled that he confronted his commander. Others boasted about killings in a group chat.

Caspar Grosse, a German medic in that unit, said he saw the soldier plead for medical attention in a mix of broken English and Russian. It was dusk. A team member looked for bandages.

That is when, Mr. Grosse said, a fellow soldier hobbled over and fired his weapon into the Russian soldier’s torso. He slumped, still breathing. Another soldier fired — “just shot him in the head,” Mr. Grosse recalled in an interview.

Mr. Grosse said he was so upset by the episode that he confronted his commander. He said he spoke to The New York Times after what he regarded as unwarranted killings continued.

In a second episode, a Chosen member lobbed a grenade at and killed a surrendering Russian soldier who had his hands raised, video footage reviewed by The Times shows.

In a third episode, Chosen members boasted in a group chat about killing Russian prisoners of war during a mission in October, text messages show. …

Comments

No matter how hard he tries to keep the lid on it, Vladimir Vladimirovich will eventually have to let the anger of the Russian people vent. Which implies ALL of Ukraine (meaning 1991 boundaries) will be militarily conquered by the Russian armed forces, and then the partition of the non-Russian areas of the former Ukrainian state will begin.
Oops, left out the part about the liquidation of the Banderites through a legal process similar to that at Nuremberg in ‘46.
Some of the territory will go to Hungary, some to Poland, some to Romania per local ethnic population and historical ties. We might even see a separate state for the Rusyns, if they can get their shit together. The key players in this are Orban and Fico, as they are the only EU leaders who Putin will tolerate speaking to. Above all, the USA, UK, & France will be kept out of the Black Sea region.
Smart guys like Orban know that the future lies not with the USA and its vassals in Western Europe, but that it can be found by turning East.

Posted by: OldFart | Jul 7 2024 9:53 utc | 301

Putin’s call for negotiation and peace is a huge error and a stupid move.
The Western world would now consider Russia even weaker then before.
They would step up with their attacks.
The threshold to attack Russia is now even lower due to this scared old man.
A statesman would understand how his opponents contemplate (the west understands only the relation strong/weak or dominance/impotence).

Posted by: vargas | Jul 7 2024 9:56 utc | 302

Dima:
-RUAF probably abandons Hlubove after AFU attack
-AFU completely defeated in the village of Pischane, like, ‘routed’. If true, it may lead to complete dissection of Zherebets river front
-AFU sources claim RU about to capture Makiivka
-RUAF may capture the large field east of Pivichne (Toretsk direction)
-New York: Yurivka under complete RUAF control
-The hill west of New York center contested
-79th brigade tried to attack toward Paraskoviivka again
-RUAF struck one Patriot radar and two launchers west of Yuzhne
-The west has promised more air defense systems for Ukraine

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 10:36 utc | 303

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 7 2024 8:21 utc | 291
The date of the number Putin gave was at the date of the interview in which he gave out the number. June 5th, 2024. “On our side, we hold 6,465 Ukrainian soldiers.”

Posted by: Ed4 | Jul 7 2024 10:38 utc | 304

The date of the number Putin gave was at the date of the interview in which he gave out the number. June 5th, 2024. “On our side, we hold 6,465 Ukrainian soldiers.”
Posted by: Ed4 | Jul 7 2024 10:38 utc | 305

There’s also the possibility that some of the prisoners obtained by Russia were released and no longer counter as exchangeable POW after checked for war crimes. This is a standard they probably offer to all prisoners excluding nazi units.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 10:39 utc | 305

@ OldFart, §302:
Yup, I think you´ve got it right.
The Rusyns in Transcarpathia had their own autonomous state in inter bellum Czechoslovakia.
Bessarabia (from Chernovtsy to Belgorod/Dniester) was Rumanian and Galicia was Polish.
I think Russia would allow this return to the Ukraine´s 1939 western border on condition that Poland and Rumania leave NATO and demilitarize (i.e. no foreign troops).
The Ukraine (renamed “Chornarus”) would be Kiev and its surrounding oblasts: Zhitomir, Xmelnitsky, Vinnitsa, Cherkassy and Yelizavetgrad. All the rest would be Russian.

Posted by: John Marks | Jul 7 2024 10:42 utc | 306

“Why don’t they have a ‘reverse gear’ ?
One thing about the Khazars mass conversion to Judaism by order of their king that seems to elude critical analysis is – WHY that Talmudic religion? There were plenty of succeeding ones in EurAsia and Middle East never mind Rome!”
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 7 2024 8:29 utc | 296
Excellent post-yes Nixon was anti Zionist , many people are not aware of that fact.
The Khazars were land pirates , name stealers who made themselves wealthy pillaging the old Silk road. Their King decided to keep unity his nation would have to join one of three religions: Christian, Muslim or Judaism-well both Christian and Muslim religions, at the time in the 9th century , didn’t allow usury-Judaism did so that was why it was picked as the Khazar religion.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 10:51 utc | 307

“You have to admit though, the MoA forum is chock full of mentally unstable victims, whining non-stop about their poor me victimology such as Wisco, Tom_Q_Collins , Peter AU1, canuck, William Gruff, Ed , UWDude, james, another day in Looneyville with the Nutters..”
Posted by: Confused Fuckface| Jul 7 2024 8:20 utc | 289
Hey Confused Fuckface kindly please show me a post of mine where I consider myself a victim.
Can’t be done-go fuck yourself, you mendacious moron.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 10:57 utc | 308

@ canuck | Jul 7 2024 10:57 utc | 309
Not worth your time, canuck. Nor the time of anyone else named.

Posted by: despondent | Jul 7 2024 11:22 utc | 309

Dear Can’t Fuck,
All of them meet the standard you mendacious moron. You are wailing like a victim now because you can’t fuckin’ handle other people’s comments. Touchy. So many here are. Crying like babies all the time because someone trod on your grand opinions. Boy grow up. Or grow up boy, and buy another round for the Bar.

Posted by: I’m Confused | Jul 7 2024 11:23 utc | 310

“great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people, while losers talk about themselves and their grandiose inflated opinions non-stop”

Posted by: I’m Confused | Jul 7 2024 11:28 utc | 311

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Jul 6 2024 19:03 utc | 59
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The biggest corruption in country 404 remains in Odessa. Time to clean those bastards.

Posted by: AI | Jul 7 2024 11:32 utc | 312

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 6 2024 19:17 utc | 62
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Most heinous attacks inflected upon surrendered or captured Russian soldiers in country 404 are committed by the neo-NAZIS scumbag mercenaries from the satanic western nations such as the US, UK, Canada and France.

Posted by: AI | Jul 7 2024 11:37 utc | 313

Posted by: Menz | Jul 7 2024 8:38 utc | 298
If true, far more important in determining the course of conflict than geo-locating a fire team in a rubbled village and trying to extrapolate the line of contact. Note no footage either, until well after the event, or never shown due to OPSEC. Interesting take on the alleged war crimes of the US led unit from a writer who has just finished travelling to countries directly/indirectly involved in the SMO, including Russia and Ukraine, pay particular attention to the para on direct US involvement
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/
As for the conflict itself, looks like there’s a new metric for the UAF, one brigade, one street. In response to this appalling exchange rate, palpitatory YouTube commentators forgot that the Russians had started building field fortifications, a month previously, behind the line of contact along the Northern Front, expecting to cede ground c.f Robotyne.
To understand the UAF’s relative impotence in their recent counter-attacks, these photos are the types of fortifications their under-strength, under-equipped brigades would have to fight through to make any substantive advances, all the while under near constant air and artillery attack.
https://read.bradyafrick.com/p/russian-field-fortifications-in-ukraine
Unlike the UAF, the RAF have the political luxury of being able to mount a flexible defence, trading space for casualties, knowing their defensive lines have not been compromised by corrupt contractors.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 11:42 utc | 314

As this thread has gone to the dumpster I’ll allow myself a (poor and off topic) joke about Italian cities that crossed my mind.
If in AI the Turin(g) test is to find if someone passes as a human being, in MOA the Pisa test is to determine which way you lean.
Meanwhile I found a recent article in Newsweek that (after a first number crunching) seems to give an interesting interpretation for RF casualties vs Ukraine’s announcements.
I’ll double check it in a spreadsheet and prepare a proper text later but the gist of it is simple, they announce all RF casualties (however slight the injury) and the KIA are only the normal 1 out of 6.
Pleasant Sunday to (almost) all

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2024 11:44 utc | 315

“@ canuck | Jul 7 2024 10:57 utc | 309
Not worth your time, canuck. Nor the time of anyone else named.”
Posted by: despondent | Jul 7 2024 11:22 utc | 310
Excellent counsel-I’m taking that advice.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 11:46 utc | 316

“You have to admit though, the MoA forum is chock full of mentally unstable victims, whining non-stop about their poor me victimology such as Wisco, Tom_Q_Collins , Peter AU1, canuck, William Gruff, Ed , UWDude, james, another day in Looneyville with the Nutters..”
Posted by: Confused Fuckface| Jul 7 2024 8:20 utc | 289
Their periods are synced up. Give it a week and it should be safe again.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 12:24 utc | 317

CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN EVERYONE!
Free drinks at the bar until 5pm.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 7 2024 12:29 utc | 318

Posted by: Confused Fuckface| Jul 7 2024 8:20 utc | 289
Their periods are synced up. Give it a week and it should be safe again.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 12:24 utc | 318
What a ludicrous analogy-men don’t have ‘periods’ you wanker!

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 12:42 utc | 319

Wisco@269….but it was cool, and enlightening for the time. A break from the dreary dogma of western mystology. Did your teacher drive a Morgan, ours did? Not slipping that through the cracks these days, in schools, it’s 24/7 Holocostology.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 7 2024 12:46 utc | 320

Rae @ 126
This working human brain has been struggling for 40 years to achieve some minimal connection to the digital universe. Thousands of hours, thousands of dollars. There is not one person on the planet who teaches this. You do not seem to be the preening strutting kind. The digerati mostly love fine distinctions, superiority, putting down those not so clever as themselves. A couple of yesterday’s links are live today. No idea why. It operates by magic.
Perpetuating mystery is very much in the interests of our rulers. They like it this way.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 7 2024 12:59 utc | 321

Consider:
In historical sociology, the focus is on social patterns, particularly the interplay between reform and revolution. Reform involves working within the system to enact change, while revolution seeks to overhaul the system entirely. During periods when revolution is objectively impossible, reformists typically prevail. Conversely, when reform is not feasible, revolutionaries gain traction. This concept is known as structural determinism, where certain outcomes seem inevitable based on prevailing conditions.
Consider Lenin’s approach before the Russian Revolution. He analyzed the situation and determined that the Russian army had no chance against the Germans in World War I, lacking weapons, supplies, and morale. Lenin’s revolutionary Bolshevik program aimed to end the war with Germany, regardless of the cost. Reformists dismissed him as a fool, insisting that supporting “Mother Russia” in the war was non-negotiable. They launched an offensive to prove their point, but it quickly collapsed, and the Germans advanced into Russia. Reality prevailed, and the Russian masses turned to Lenin for peace, validating his stance.
Similarly, before the French Revolution, the collapse of the old regime was inevitable due to soaring state debt. When the finance minister warned the King that the state would run out of money in six weeks, it was clear that the system was unsustainable.
The key point is that expedient measures are ineffective in pre-revolutionary times, where broader conditions dictate the regime’s fate. Short-term policies, whether involving war or fiscal increases, may temporarily uphold the status quo but will ultimately lead to its downfall. There is no stopping structural determinism for it is as inevitable as death.

Posted by: I’m Confused No More | Jul 7 2024 13:03 utc | 322

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 12:42 utc | 320
sigh … read over what was written since post 140 or so … for the most part it reads like a bunch of butt hurt bitches arguing over which kardasian is the koolest. There are some posts pertinant to Ukraine but for the most part they’re drowned out by a competition over who’s queen bitch.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 13:49 utc | 323

“Now we see the violence inherent in the system”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/07/ukraine-legal-action-uk-courts-bondholders-debt-default
“Debt Justice said a two-year suspension of Ukraine’s debt payments was scheduled to expire on 1 August, and that action was needed to protect Kyiv from the possibility of legal action from its creditors. Ukraine is in negotiations with bondholders and is seeking a debt writedown of 60% on the $24bn (£18.7bn) it owes to private creditors. Bondholders – which include big investment groups such as BlackRock, Pimco, Fidelity and AllianceBernstein – have said they are willing to take a 20% loss.
Ukraine’s official bilateral creditors, including the UK, have agreed to continue suspending Kyiv’s debt payments until 2027, but there has been no agreement to extend the arrangement with private creditors. The relief offered by private creditors is worth around 12% of Ukraine’s annual national output (GDP). Unless a deal is struck or an extension to the two-year moratorium is agreed by the end of this month, Ukraine will formally default on its debts in September. Kyiv fears that once the 1 August deadline expires, asset managers will sell their bonds to hedge funds, which will then sue. Ukraine’s bonds are all governed by English law, so any legal case would be brought in the UK.”
a) We know private equity is run by amoral people
b) interesting to see that while Blackrock and Pimco are happy to see the US and UK throw money at Ukraine, they don’t actually want to follow suit. Dead Russians don’t pay for their bonuses.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jul 7 2024 13:50 utc | 324

Consider Lenin’s approach before the Russian Revolution. He analyzed the situation and determined that the Russian army had no chance against the Germans in World War I, lacking weapons, supplies, and morale. Lenin’s revolutionary Bolshevik program aimed to end the war with Germany, regardless of the cost.
Posted by: I’m Confused No More | Jul 7 2024 13:03 utc | 323

I am afraid that now you are confuseder than ever before. Definitely, you know nothing about Russian history, Leninism and Bolsheviks.

Posted by: Poslan1 | Jul 7 2024 13:53 utc | 325

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 6 2024 20:41 utc | 73
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no excuse for being fat or severely overweight aka obese. The US is infested with obese people.

Posted by: AI | Jul 7 2024 14:02 utc | 326

Posted by: vargas | Jul 7 2024 9:56 utc | 303
————-
Could you please change your disk and stop repeating the same BS?
Putin’s call for negotiations is conditional to the same premises he set multiple times. He knows the proposal will be rejected, he simply shows that the West doesn’t want an end to the war which confirms his stance: to finish the job.

Posted by: scc | Jul 7 2024 14:19 utc | 327

@Vargas this one is for you:
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-7624-narrative-builds-that
Peace, brother

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jul 7 2024 14:22 utc | 328

There is no excuse for being fat or severely overweight aka obese. The US is infested with obese people.
Posted by: AI | Jul 7 2024 14:02 utc | 327
Good food, good wine, good spirits?
Specially with good company.
Good old fashioned gluttony is a thing, you might enjoy it if you tried.
He who has never sinned let him throw the first Wellington with a side of gratin dauphinois and a good Pinot noir. Throw it this way please.

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2024 14:23 utc | 329

POW numbers? After Mariupol, The combined Russian forces held about 16,000. Until the referendum, Russia only accounted for what it held in POW’s and the same went for casualties. Since the referendum, the Donbass is part of the Russian federation and numbers are no longer separate.
If Russia is now holding a bit over 6000 POW’s, then a lot have either been exchanged or become Russian citizens. Earlier on there were reports of surrendering Ukraine forces asking to join the Russian or Donbass forces.
POW swaps are always lopsided, in line with casualty rates. Many swaps may have been carried out away from the public eye.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 14:24 utc | 330

There is no excuse for being fat or severely overweight aka obese. The US is infested with obese people.
Posted by: AI | Jul 7 2024 14:02 utc | 327

Grossly OT but in fact there are excuses: Environmental toxins, additives, poison etc in US food. It’s just not edible but that’s what they get. Obesity is one effect. Autism etc another. Possibly even sexual anomalies. (Sorry OT)

Posted by: Avtonom | Jul 7 2024 14:26 utc | 331

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-7624-narrative-builds-that
Peace, brother
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jul 7 2024 14:22 utc | 329
“Orban’s visit to Moscow set the European political seraglio aflame this week.”
Seraglio… cute! Cunts and eunuchs!

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2024 14:27 utc | 332

ZH has a posting up with the title
NATO To Unveil ‘Bridge To Membership’ For Ukraine: US Official
the quote

NATO will unveil a plan to help prepare Ukraine to assume the responsibilities of membership in the alliance during its annual summit in Washington, next week.
The deliverable is not a plan for membership outright, but will consist of “standing up an entire command” to ensure Ukraine can fully contribute to NATO in the event it does join, a senior Biden administration official told reporters on July 5.
“Allies will reaffirm that Ukraine’s future is in NATO [and] will make significant new announcements about how we’re increasing NATO’s military, political, and financial support for Ukraine,” the official said.

As such, the official said, the United States and many of its allies will be working next week to “institutionalize” Ukraine’s military ties to NATO through 20–30 bilateral security agreements that would be announced by Ukraine and various NATO member states.
The United States will also announce a key deliverable, the official said, to “help Ukraine with training coordination, equipment coordination, logistics, [and] support development.”
“It will have a political overlay to it, which will focus on defense, institution building, and interoperability with NATO, and it’ll have a financial pledge associated with it as well.”

ZH also has a posting up with the title
Over 60 Foreign Policy Experts Issue Letter Urging NATO Against Advancing Ukraine Membership
The United States is hosting this year’s major annual NATO Summit in Washington DC on July 9,10, and 11. Heads of state, foreign ministers, and diplomats from across Europe will be in attendance. I expect that today’s French election will impact the decisions made there as will the just finished UK voting.
The shit show continues until it doesn’t.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 7 2024 14:28 utc | 333

Newbie | Jul 7 2024 14:27 utc | 333
The Euro twits are becoming anxious. They banked everything on taking Russia down and now that the US narrative is changing, they’re in a bit of a pickle.
There fear Trump, of Orban – recently Czech booted out the Ukrainian Ambassador for taking part in the plot to kill Fico. I assume that was an EU plot, the Euro’s warning the Georgian PM the same would happen to him if he didn’t change his ways.
But as Orban says, the Europeans are fixated on war with no thought given to peace.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 14:34 utc | 334

@ Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 14:34 utc | 335
your last line.. what orban says is so very true… many can’t handle this simple truth either..

Posted by: james | Jul 7 2024 14:39 utc | 335

Its been going on for a while now.
Last year, Moscow launched an investigation into alleged war crimes committed by French mercenaries, after a photo surfaced showing three Russian POWs shot at point-blank range.
According to the Investigative Committee, more than 3,100 foreign mercenaries are currently fighting in Ukraine, most of them US, Canadian and British citizens. Moscow has repeatedly warned that mercenaries are not viewed as combatants under international law and “the best thing” they can hope for if captured alive is “a trial and maximum prison terms.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 7 2024 14:47 utc | 336

/chirp
It is true, the Russian people need a venue to vent. One can only constrain feeling so long, like ice holding back heated waters, before a glacial dam burst or jokulhops occurs. 🙁 Given their history has shown this to be true before, it is important to find an outlet — soon. Elemental forces restrained build and thereafter become new catastrophic events unto themselves.
Any ideas? The Paris Olympics won’t be one. But perhaps Western peoples can organize online venting therapy sessions, against their own malicious goverments’ wishes to the contrary. 🙁 People have to know they are seen and heard.
/chirp
Thanks for the ‘caw back’, Wisco! I hope you and others enjoyed it. As we reach for great heights it’s also good to stay connected to others in pain and help them up too. Oddly by lifting others up our egos stay grounded and we can together soar high as a flock. ^.^
/cheep cheep
/flies up and away

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 7 2024 14:49 utc | 337

But as Orban says, the Europeans are fixated on war with no thought given to peace.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 14:34 utc | 335
Still in S new post he mentions AfD’s Maximilian Krah saying “And the casualties are so great that we are approaching the threshold of 30% of the population capable of military service. There is an international rule that if you lose 30% of the population capable of military service, the war ends.”
That is compatible with what I mentioned months ago of 1 in 6 KIA as pain threshold (kia being close to irrecoverable wia)
Now, I mentioned earlier that total irretrievable losses for afu should be near 1.400.000.
If the population of Ukraine was 35 million, maybe 70% of when they had a 7 million military potencial at 49)
Then 7×0,7=4.9
30% of 4.9 = 1.47
1.470.000 irrecoverable losses for AFU, yes they must be getting there

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2024 14:58 utc | 338

Posted by: I’m Confused No More | Jul 7 2024 13:03 utc | 323
Who gets to be the revolutionaries is the question at the end of this quarter century. If, by the system, you mean the rule of the technocratic, globalist orientated, mangers then it ‘ain’t going to be you lefties, that’s for sure. As usual, the conservative movement has been far more effective in challenging the growing tyranny, even though it was the slowest out of the blocks (you lefties win that prize, but then threw the lead away, seduced by an increasingly incoherent ideology in favour of operational efficiency).
My prediction that the revolution would come from across the Atlantic (made well over a year ago) not only stands, but has been strengthened. The technocrats managers might try to channel its energies thinking, like most historical illiterates, that such forces can be controlled to their own ends (throw the dumb rubes enough red meat and they’ll guard the elites gated communities, once more); however, I think forces are now being unleashed that are so primal they are immune to their traditional methods, many of which have been bled dry, resisting the growing cultural insurgency. Shades of Ukraine’s predicament.
The European Leftists dilemma now mirrors that of the Conservatives, trying to reclaim their core ideology from the usurpers, who gutted it and now wear it proudly, like a skin suit. In this crucial phase the Socialists could learn from the Conservatives, for just as the latter relearnt from the former the power of localism and culture capture, the Left could reconnect to their traditional base. We are now heading for a period of major historical realignment, so turbulent due to its delay coming, mimicking the principle of plate tectonics, that which ever side learns to both adapt, whilst returning to their founding principles will dominate the next half of the century.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 15:02 utc | 339

Well, you may have noticed that the Russians have NEVER mentioned captured Frenchmen, Poles, Brazilians, Lithuanians or Czechs.
At least NEVER alive!
Although there are so many prisoners!
These mercenaries cannot expect any mercy and are NOT prisoners of war according to international law and can therefore be hung from any tree.
That may be in accordance with international law and I agree with the Russians, but it may explain why these mercenaries, who are fair game in this war and have nothing to lose, react like this.
They know that they will be dead if the Russians catch them, ONLY Ukrainian soldiers are treated as prisoners of war.
Mercenaries mercilessly killed on the spot!

Posted by: ossi | Jul 7 2024 15:11 utc | 340

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 15:02 utc | 340
Delusional. Your revolutionaries are servants of the oligarchs and will offer you nothing but petty spite against people who offend you as they continue to rob you blind and make the society resemble Brazil after the 64 coup. The shitlibs are exactly the same and will have the same result. The western system is heading for a fall and is to necrotic and corrupted and nepotistic to do anything other than fail into a backwater shitwhole that people in the ROTW will talk about in the same manner China was in the 19th century. But hey good luck storming the castle.

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 7 2024 15:13 utc | 341

Rules, norms, conventions, and honor can all be suspended or abandoned when it’s a “victim” fighting a “victimizer.”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 6 2024 23:21 utc | 127
Victimisation may be valid or fictional. That Gazans are victims of aggression is empirically obvious. That Israelis are victims of aggression is not. These are bayesian statements so overlap is predictable.
Fantasy victimisation is typical of introvert cultures generally because it must be self-referential. The culture defines its victimisation as the norm and maintains it by compliance with the beliefs of the cultural group, without external reference. We think of this as typical of psychopathy with a self-referential group of one, or a cult with a larger self-referencing group like Aum Shinrikyo. But it also applies to tribal and national cultures, the self-selected factions like Zionists, Banderites etc. Where these are quasi-religious the results can be racist or genocidal.
This kind of false victimisation is, IMO, one of the most dangerous traits of humanity because it absolves guilt, denies accountability, cannot be argued, and justifies the treatment of the “other” as non-human. Israelis consider Palestinians as subhuman. Banderites consider Russians as subhuman. European settlers in America considered Indians as subhuman. Ironically, Indian tribes frequently considered other tribes as non-human.
Almost always, this introvert self-referential culture produces hatred, violence and destruction, often including immoral acts like torture. IMO the presence of torture is empirical proof of the existence of an introvert victim-based culture. This applies to Ukrainian Nazis, to CIA use of black sites in the mid-east, etc.
An interesting case study is imperial Japan in the 1930s/40s, which can be divided into two distinct cultural groups: Island culture and Village culture. Village culture was narrowly Japan centred, agrarian farming, with behaviour judged solely by other members of the highly compliant culture (“the nail that sticks up is hammered down”). The behaviour of Japanese soldiers from this group was often intolerant, abusive, brutal and violent to anyone “other”. It was expected. Island culture on the other hand was a group largely based on sea trades like seaweed harvesting, fishing, shipping and opportunistic piracy. It was aware of foreign influences, extroverted and self-reliant. It crucially did not have a victimhood narrative despite being considered low caste.
The key to the equation seems to be endless interaction, to dispute and break down the self-referential narratives. Which is probably a face palm obvious for most in the bar, but includes some useful criteria and understanding.

Posted by: Tom Paine | Jul 7 2024 15:21 utc | 342

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2024 14:58 utc | 339
Interesting the 30% rule of potential population for arms lost ends the war.
Simplicius’ article also said Archelor Mittal has shut down its operation, they can no longer operate with costs of 80% imported electricity.
Ending with this quote from Starsky Eddy, which is completely logical:

We will say one thing. The more power and its dogs drive the Ukrainian people to fight, the larger the collapse will be. At some point, the front will simply sprinkle, as 80% of the army will consist of those who do not want to fight, or tired, or disappointed.
It’s like building a house, but making concrete for walls and foundations according to the formula of 12 bags of sand for 1 bag of cement. For some time it will stand idle, and after that « will begin to fall asleep », and if there is a minimum « earthquake », it will simply collapse. So in the situation with the Zemobilization and the Armed Forces.

The situation as far as intentions go seem to be multipronged. Zelensky might like to negotiate, but Azov threatens his life. Azov does not want negotiation, but they want to fight to the last child. Meanwhile US is promoting Azov to take power over from Zelensky.
The conclusion is ultimately, the US, and the rest of the west definitely do not want it to end if they are promoting Azov.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 15:26 utc | 343

Slava Ukraini!
I opened Twitter, and this came up in my feed. No thanks!

NATO @NATO
NATO means not being alone.
NATO means protecting each other.
NATO means living in freedom.
NATO means peace
#NATOSummit | #WeAreNATO
https://x.com/NATO/status/1809966602919817281

Interesting, that the EU also has a Slava Ukraini! page:

https://ec.europa.eu/stories/slava-ukraini/

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 7 2024 15:30 utc | 344

unimperator | Jul 7 2024 15:26 utc | 344
Much seems to depend on what happens domestically in the US. The coming election, though as the Majority of the US deep state has decided to dump Biden, regime change may even occur there before the election.
US war always revolve around its domestic politics.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 15:32 utc | 345

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 7 2024 15:13 utc | 342
Par for the course, you tell yourself the evil castle is impregnable, we storm it, you then demand to be let in. Stupidly, we agree and you then complain about every aspect of the castle and it’s management and demand changes. Once again, we stupidly agree, this is endlessly repeated till the garrison gradually resembles that of its former occupants. We are kicked out, followed shortly by you lot.
You tell yourself the evil castle is impregnable……………….rinse and repeat.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 15:46 utc | 346

UWDude
Posted by: I’m Confused | Jul 7 2024 8:20 utc | 289
You tried to dox scorpion, and you are obviously a sock. You need to be banned, (again).

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 7 2024 15:47 utc | 347

Stoltenberg now hopes Ukraine’s Nato membership by 2034. Talking about those goalposts…

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 15:50 utc | 348

@ Totally overrated. Yes, all mental wanking.
Posted by: Wisco | Jul 7 2024 5:41 utc | 265
_____
I know I’ve posted something like this before, but…
I read Hesse’s Siddhartha back when I was an undergrad and was under the impression that James Laughlin was the ultimate arbiter of taste. I found the book okayish. Later a professor told me that Hesse’s novels were fine works—for adolescent boys. Later I had to read Steppenwolf, which I found beyond silly. I imagine Hell would be a library in which every book was Glasperlenspiel. Hesse did write some graceful atmospheric (if minor) lyrics though.

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2024 15:57 utc | 349

Mercenaries mercilessly killed on the spot!
Posted by: ossi | Jul 7 2024 15:11 utc | 341
Apparently not always the case in fact there is plenty of evidence the Russians are capturing and even releasing foreign mercs. https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-british-prisoners-of-war-returned/32046815.html Out of this bunch I recall Aiden Aslin became a bit of a celebrity in GB and a complete idiot to the rest of the world by trying to return to Ukraine after being sentenced to death as a merc in Donetsk.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 16:00 utc | 350

reply to 344
What’s the deal with 30%? The translation was a bit rough but I wondered how it applies to Ukraine or what the numbers are at present? Like how much further to go, given 1.5 to 2K killed/”destroyed” per day.
I was interested to read this opinion as I haven’t read anyone suggesting a heuristic rule for collapse of a nation militarily.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 7 2024 16:07 utc | 351

Barrel Brown@156 says it would be interesting to know what I see as the cause of IDF/settler behavior. I strongly reject victim culture, regardless of how much the Holocaust is invoked as an excuse. I also reject the entire perspective that any mental phenomenon like honor culture as the primary cause of social behavior. If such things exist they modify individual behavior according to their personal characteristics. Someone with a different temperament and biography will respond to such cultural influences in unpredictable and varied ways. That’s why such patterns of culture are not properly conceived as fundamentally causal in my judgment. Thus, the role of greed justified by elaborate fraudulent ideologies like racism or commandments from God are more excuses overall, though some individual characters really do take such abstractions seriously. (Variation in people, right?) In other words, I’m closer to Barrel Brown. The thing is, Barrel Brown’s indignation should be aimed at William Gruff who not only endorses idealism in anthropology, but makes up an entirely imaginary victim culture where magically people get status from being victims, not being rich and powerful and famous. I don’t think there’s any content to the victim culture, just a thin excuse to hate on whole groups of people, largely undefined so other commenters can imagine they’re not included. That’s the crap.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 16:16 utc | 352

HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 16:00 utc | 351
With Azovstal, the major reason they were talked into surrendering was I believe due to Kadyrov’s five big fish which Russia wanted to capture. The rank and file were shipped out on busses with large uncovered windows, but but the last were taken out in an APC so nobody could see who was inside. I assume they were high value currency for future trades with the US.
As for releasing the nazi’s and the mercs. Russia does not have the death penalty. One they have been released back into the wild they can be killed, especially on the battlefield. Though in the swaps, Ukraine at least Ukraine’s handlers are only interested in the neo-nazis not the rank and file.
But as we have seen, Russia is willing to do very lopsided swaps to get itsw soldiers back. I rember back in 2014/15 with the Donbass swaps, most Donbass soldiers would come back on stretchers,. many of them castrated, whereas the Ukrainian soldiers walked back to their lines.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 16:18 utc | 353

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 15:46 utc | 347
The castle is not unassailable. It is just not one that can be occupied. The castle must be torn down as it is unsafe for habitation. During the great shitlib civil war I plan to undermine all sides. No matter their views on dress codes or any other bullshit they say. Both must be brought to ruin.

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 7 2024 16:26 utc | 354

Posted by: Timbo | Jul 7 2024 4:23 utc | 237
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
#denazify the US makes total sense. People look the other way round all the time and they always think it all started in nazi germany during WWII.

Posted by: AI | Jul 7 2024 16:27 utc | 355

Skimming through, with the usual obsession with trolls plus the victim culture as cause of IDF behavior and all the social evils here too…well, I still deny psychological causes as fundamentally causal, especially group psychology. (There are no collective minds, that’s a reification of “culture.”)
But every time a commenter posts, “Troll!” they are claiming to have been victimized by their target. If it contributes to the commenter’s status to lay claim to victimization by trolls, then it’s MoA commentariat that has a victim culture.
The word troll is neither an argument nor a fact. The more prevalent its use, the lower the level of discourse.
Sorry, but that’s so.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 16:31 utc | 356

Posted by: Digital Dinosaur | Jul 7 2024 5:22 utc | 261
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Odessa is curretly run by a gang of thugs and terrorists, corrupted snakes. Russia needs to do a full house clean up.

Posted by: AI | Jul 7 2024 16:34 utc | 357

Interesting observation from the recent footage of Russian assault operations, seems the Russians are going back to firing mixed barrages 50/50 HE/smoke. The problem of artillery delivered smoke, where the obscurant rises quickly into the air instead of maturing at ground level, is now useful at creating an anti-drone (both ISR and FPV) layer above friendly forces.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 16:16 utc | 353
Explain the actions of the upper-class men on the Titanic if you, ‘ reject the entire perspective that any mental phenomenon like honor culture as the primary cause of social behavior’. Two years later the same generation volunteered en-mass to fight for their country, many lying about their age. There is also the honour culture in some Muslim societies, that certainly drives social behaviour regarding marriage. Disbelief should never be the basis of dismissing anything .

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 16:44 utc | 358

Re the victim culture. Seems to be an empire specialty along with R2P crap to try and legitimize their wars of aggression. The holocaust, the holdomor, the Baltics and Ukraine since the collapse of communism a US Brit propaganda quickly filling that area, a national culture and identity based on being victims of Russia aggression. Israel, and identity built on the genicide of Jews in Europe but riding that, profiting from that to create their own Lebensraum in Palestine along with the extermination of the Palestinians.
The fictional Ukraine history, created since the collapse of the Soviet Union, also similar in the Baltic’s though perhaps not to such an extent.
Though reading the site at a Ukraine University on Ukraine culture gives me a good idea of the fictionalized history that is being taught to kids in Ukraine. Along with primary school kids singing songs about killing moscals. Taking the kids out of that would be like taking them out of some sort of cult group. Russia in fact had to create a special curriculum for those kids that had spent some time under Ukraine nazi schooling.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 16:48 utc | 359

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 16:16 utc | 353
BLM’s founders did pretty well out of ‘victim culture’ as did Ibram X Kendi, ditto beneficiaries of DEI, especially those concerned with academia.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 16:49 utc | 360

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 7 2024 16:26 utc | 355
Yup, tear it down and build a sub-standard version from the rubble, sounds vaguely familiar. I’ll watch you fighting out-numbered, from the battlements, try not to trip over the corpses of the garrison that we chucked over the walls, you’ll already be fighting at a disadvantage.
I’ve already been waging an unconventional war against the skin-wearing sociopaths for over a decade, what took you so long?

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 17:09 utc | 361

As for releasing the nazi’s and the mercs. Russia does not have the death penalty.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 16:18 utc | 354
I understand that to be the case under Russian criminal law. I read Aiden Aslin was tried and sentenced in Donetsk and that trial took place before Putin declared martial lawn in the breakaway republics so perhaps he was tried under military law ?

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 17:18 utc | 362

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 15:02 utc | 340
Another wonderful post chapGPT now memorialized in rhyming iambic pentameter”
You say You want a Revolution..
Who gets to be the revolutionaries,
Is asked at end of this quarter century.
If by the system’s rule you mean the plan
Of technocratic, globalist command.
Then it’s not you lefties, that much is sure,
The right has fought tyranny more secure.
Though slow to start, conservatives have fought,
While lefties lost the lead their efforts brought,
Seduced by ideologies that stray,
Efficiency above all, led astray.
My prediction stands from across the sea,
A revolution brewing, wild and free.
The technocrats might think they can control,
Forces unleashed that soon may take their toll.
Throw rubes some meat to guard elite estates,
But primal forces won’t succumb to fates.
Traditional methods now bled dry,
Resist insurgency, yet still they try,
Shades of Ukraine in every dire plight,
A struggle fierce as day turns into night.
The European Left now shares a plight,
With conservatives, reclaiming their right.
Usurpers gutted ideologies’ core,
Wear their skin proudly, but hold nothing more.
In this crucial phase, lessons must be learned,
From those who once from Left their wisdom earned.
The power of localism’s strong embrace,
Culture capture wins in every place.
The Left must reconnect with their old base,
Adapt or lose in this historical race.
Realignment looms with changes so profound,
The side that adapts will wear the crown.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 17:22 utc | 363

HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 17:18 utc | 363
Both republics had the death penalty. Those initial trials were carried out in Donesk under Donetsk Republic law. I think a number received the death penalty but if I remember correctly part of the sentence was a delay period, perhaps a year before the executions would be carried out. Before that occurred, The republics had become part of Russia and so I presume Russian law in that regard over rides Donetsk law.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 17:23 utc | 364

325
fidelity control trade the life bonds of the living and the dead control the trusts city of london wall street make sense that they keep the shoah going more dead the better.
if black rock vanguard cargill et al that own 70% of the farm land get to physically claim it then alas putin is in and it is all just another another covid kill and bank heist

Posted by: todd | Jul 7 2024 17:34 utc | 365

@ HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 17:18 utc | 363
@ Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 17:23 utc | 365
The mercenary was allegedly traded mid September 2022 with a few others, before official ascension of the region to RF. Looks like a purely pragmatic decision, considering they kept him around for three months after the sentence announcement. The news about him got around, he wasn’t just a nameless merc, providing value for trade and “evil pr” in case of official execution. The trade appears to be the infamous 215-55 one, involving a whole bunch of azovites.

Posted by: boneless | Jul 7 2024 17:42 utc | 366

Some time back, Russia was going through the legal process of declaring Azov a terrorist group. Mercenaries operate outside the Vienna conventions on POW’s and I assume the same applies to terrorist groups.
When it comes to war crimes much depends on the authorities of the relevant army and their attitude. With Ukraine, we see the encouragement of war crimes on the national tv, the head military surgeon calling on doctors to castrate all POW’s and so forth. Each area that Russian forces pulled back from, the were accompanying articles in Ukraine media and with Kerson also the British daily Mail, with Ukrainian officials saying the army would deal with collaborators. Anton Gerashenko’s interview in the daily mail, he openly spoke about how the collaborators would be shot like pigs.
Nothing like that is seen in Russian media, the leadership doing the opposite and speaking about treating POWs according to international law which is the Vienna conventions.
How many in Russia’s military facing Ukraine? 300,000? 500,000? All fighting age men. How many would be ionvolved in violent crime in civilian life on average? there will be a per capita number but I have no idea what that percentage is.
So violent crime will also occur in the military same3 as civilian life, so it cant be said there would be no individual war criminals in the Russian forces.
The difference in sides is to whether or not these crimes are encouraged or persecuted.
With Ukraine vs Russia, we see war crimes encouraged by state officials, those involved even posting torture and murder to social media, on the Russian side war crime discouraged and anyone caught being prosecuted the same as any criminal.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 17:45 utc | 367

I was interested to read this opinion as I haven’t read anyone suggesting a heuristic rule for collapse of a nation militarily.
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 7 2024 16:07 utc | 352
I mentioned 16% Kia of mobilized from WWI
I had already mentioned the normal Kia / irrecoverable wia ends up near 1
So 30% of irretrievable losses are a reasonable alternative
As for mobilization capacity I read long ago about pre-war Ukraine being in the 7 million range

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2024 17:51 utc | 368

@ Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 17:45 utc | 368
yes to all that and – ukraine soldier shortage being partly filled by convicts from jail, can’t help make it any better either..

Posted by: james | Jul 7 2024 17:57 utc | 369

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 17:09 utc | 362
You still don’t quite get my position. I want to give the opportunity to others to deal with the collective waste leadership and to ensure that whatever is built after is federalized away from forming an imperial government and economy.

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 7 2024 18:22 utc | 370

Posted by: Hankster | Jul 7 2024 3:08 utc | 207
#####
The year is 2024.
Please do not describe links when you can just post them. It is an enormous waste of time.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jul 7 2024 18:31 utc | 371

badjoke | Jul 7 2024 18:22 utc | 371
After the final collapse of US power and economy, there will be no stable serious government for a long time. The dedication system over the last decades, the ‘culture’ and crap pumped out on TV and in all the media give western populations no understanding of reality. Quite likely to be the Russian 90’s on steroids in the west for some generations. US itself – civil war?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 18:31 utc | 372

Off-Topic: Orban is on his way to China, where he is expected to arrive on Monday morning
▪️ This was reported by the Hungarian media, citing sources.
lordofwar

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 7 2024 18:31 utc | 373

Never was. It was all a lie. Many thanks to the Palestinians for uncovering the truth to the masses. It’s too bad that so many had to die over the years to prove it.
Posted by: Ian2 | Jul 7 2024 5:21 utc | 260
##############
There is no shortage of voices who will tell people the truth today.
There is a dearth of quality information on what to do about it.
IMO, it’s a kind of cruelty to tell people about problems without providing hope/outlet/relief as well.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jul 7 2024 18:33 utc | 374

🇷🇴🇺🇦‼️🚨 Ukrainian partisans sabotage NATO in Romania!
The protest movement of Ukrainian refugees is gaining momentum throughout Europe and, in fact, is unwittingly playing into the hands of the Russian Army, destroying weapons and equipment even before they arrival in Ukraine.
Through sabotage, arson and explosions on the territory of Romania, Ukrainians from “the Resistance” organization destroyed and damaged:
— BulRom gas Implekx gas terminal near the Romanian city of Siret, coordinates 47.933975, 25.971136, arson was carried out on July 3 at six in the morning, the fire continued at the terminal for several days, almost completely destroying the infrastructure of the gas pipeline and terminal;
— A freight train with shells, UAVs, missiles and components for Ukraine, coordinates 47.876503, 25.996639, on a railway line intended exclusively for sending goods to the Ukrainian direction and having no other branches;
— A large military warehouse of weapons and equipment intended for shipment to Ukraine in the Romanian city of Slobozia, coordinates 47.7678392, 26.0556328;
— A large military warehouse of weapons and equipment intended for shipment to Ukraine in the Romanian city of Slatioara.
The Ukrainian partisan anti-war movement is rapidly spreading in the territories of Poland, Moldova, Romania and other countries that support Zelensky’s regime and add fuel to the fire of war.

https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1810012506468831356

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 18:37 utc | 375

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 6:38 utc | 274
##############
Often forgotten is that Taiwan, Ukraine, and Israel (among others) serve a non-obvious purpose. They are the vehicles for money laundering. Far away, foreign language, controlled press (where there is any press to speak of).
If for no other reason, America (and the West at large that engages in this form of “profit sharing”) will be loathe to surrender Taiwan to China, Ukraine to Russia, or Israel to the Arabs. Even if they have to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of their citizens. Too many underestimate the power of greed because they are not particularly greedy themselves.
The Axis of Resistance needs more than be militarily strong. They need to continue to undermine and replace the economic vectors of Imperialism.
A multi-polar world is only possible with multi-vector strategies.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jul 7 2024 18:39 utc | 376

unimperator | Jul 7 2024 18:37 utc | 376
That’s interesting. Apparently Ukraine has installed barbed wire along the Romanian border to stop military age males escaping.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 18:40 utc | 377

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 18:37 utc | 376
i have a bad feeling about this. the eu will say that those are all russian saboteur groups that are now attacking nato territory. they will never aknowledge it beeing ukrainian resistance, after all, there are only ukrainians that are pro nato. all the rest are russians.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jul 7 2024 18:43 utc | 378

Roman’a has several regions that if not pro-russian, are strongly neutral. The leader of one of these regions was I think recently arrested for being ‘pro Russian’.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 18:48 utc | 379

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jul 7 2024 18:43 utc | 379
I don’t know if they are true, but there isn’t probably reason to doubt it.
At this point it doesn’t matter what EU says – all these facilities that are burned by whoever is a very good thing, if it puts dents in Nato war effort in Ukraine.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 7 2024 18:53 utc | 380

Milites@359 thinks this is a gotcha question. The rebuttal is simply that the same honor culture that supposedly ruled did not actually dominate the way said. The claim that more millionaires died for honor proportionately than other lower class men—which is an implication—forgets that most people died, period.
That’s why there was also the notorious “millionaires'” lifeboat, twelve passengers in a boat that could hold forty. It’s also why more crew survived despite the same honor culture, they had the proper skills that favored them.
And, victim culture isn’t even a thing, except maybe commenters whining about being victimized by trolls to get praise for being vigilant guards of the board.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 19:15 utc | 381

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jul 7 2024 18:43 utc | 379
Didn’t a couple of missile factories in New Jersey and Arkansas blow up nearly simultaneously on the last working before July 4? This is starting to look like a trend.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 19:29 utc | 382

eu will say those are all russian saboteur groups that are now attacking nato
Posted by: Justpassinby | Jul 7 2024 18:43 utc | 379
They can say anything they want. So does Russia. Lavrov for example said ” Russian Federation will respond to shelling of its regions by Western weapons”. These are empty words for their own internal public, no one cares

Posted by: rk | Jul 7 2024 19:39 utc | 383

These are empty words for their own internal public, no one cares
Posted by: rk | Jul 7 2024 19:39 utc | 384
It would be interesting to know how many Nato ‘specialists’ in Ukraine are being killed. Russia has certainly stepped up its strikes on them and shipments of western weapons.
The Brits were screaming and frothing at the mouth when they got hit hard, so too was the banker boy when the French forces got hit hard.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 19:50 utc | 384

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 19:15 utc | 382
I think you may need to read the transcripts, given by numerous witnesses at the enquiry, as to the conduct of the men in question. To imply that their sacrifice was really as a result of incompetence is as inaccurate as portraying the majority of third class passengers as being Irish, yes Mr Cameron, I’m looking at you!
I note you failed to address the other examples of honour systems, notably those practiced in some Muslim countries toward eligible marriage partners, and the behaviour exhibited by the Edwardians in WW1.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 7 2024 19:29 utc | 383
One was making Javelin ATGM’s, which the Ukrainians have been complaining about being in short supply. It could be sabotage, or the result of increasing production quotas by compromising safety, as seemingly in the case of Boeing.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/03/business/former-boeing-inspector-scrap-parts-assembly-lines/index.html

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 20:15 utc | 385

reply to 369
Thanks for the reply. I fear comparisons with WW1 don’t consider how that war ended with Germany ending the war expecting an armistice and getting humiliated instead. Testosterone poisoned Americans with pump action shotguns in trenches was part of it too. Like not the same as Ukr. quasi fanatics insisting on unconditional surrender of Russia in utter delusion.
Who knew war could get so insanely irrational? I’m sorry but it seems to me that wars used to involve a degree of calculation by elites while the ordinary grunts lost their lives. Now, WTF? If this was Vietnam, Zelensky would be dead in a plane crash and Kissinger would show up and call it a draw.
And numbers from Ukraine are crazy sketchy. Where is this situation really? Lose another 100K and that’s it? Gimme an estimate. Gracias……

Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 7 2024 20:19 utc | 386

so too was the banker boy when the French forces got hit hard.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 19:50 utc | 385

They are cowards. They made General Georgelin die while hiking in the Pyrenees when he was killed in Ukraine wandering to close to the front.
That is: no scream, the deaths swept under the rug. Brillant.

Posted by: Naive | Jul 7 2024 20:25 utc | 387

What are the implications for greater French involvement in Ukraine now that the NPF have unsurprisingly (sorry BBC) won in the second round, or will the coalition splinter as fast as it formed?
If possible could any posters with intimate knowledge of the country, not the usual ideologues salivating at a 90% top tax rate, answer. There were a number of German posters who gave invaluable insights into their countries politics, that helped this Brit enormously.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 21:03 utc | 388

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 19:50 utc | 385
At a guess, not many. The only military personnel normally sent on these deployments are SF, meaning any loss is easily explainable and F&F’s won’t kick up a stink. For all of the fantasy’s about legions of NATO troops fighting in Ukraine the reality is somewhat different. Specialists, especially weapons technicians and operators tend to be of an age where they have families and partners who ask questions about unexplained deaths and will go public if it means a better chance getting at the truth. I know someone who witnessed a mother tear into an Admiral at her son’s funeral, demanding to know why he had died, and telling him to his face that he was a ‘bloody liar’ and she wasn’t going to ‘go away’. Apparently he left quickly looking shocked.
Perhaps there are a number of people recently left or on the reserve list who have been enticed back by a health bonus and combat pay, but I doubt it’s that many. I’d think that Poland is where you will find the majority, making the military equivalent of Zoom calls to their Ukrainian operators, who’ve phoned the help-desk number. Audio and visual technologies today increasingly mean the instructor does not have to be physically present. I certainly wish that I’d have had the type of set up, sitting in my air-conditioned hotel room sipping an iced-coffee would have been instantly preferable to impersonating a rasher of sizzling bacon, struggling to be understood by the ‘natives’.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 21:27 utc | 389

Milites | Jul 7 2024 21:27 utc | 390
A year in more back, there was a bit of an article in the Australian ABC on a New Zealander who had been killed in Ukraine. He was a severing NZ military on ‘unpaid leave’. The NZ military head said about 100 of its forces were in Ukraine on ‘unpaid leave. NZ is a small country with a small military. Rule of thumb would be to allow for similar percentages of western military to be in Ukraine on ‘unpaid leave’ and it would add up to a fair number. These I think will be likely to go over in units and be paid directly from their respective country’s ‘aid’ to Ukraine.
Several significant events reported on by Russian military blogs who are directly associated with frontling Russian or Donbass forces reported that a significant number of French, one time British another. If it was just that it could be brushed of as internet rumor but these couple of reports in particular were quickly follow by the British/French establishment frothing in public rage.
The French if I remember right were hit hard after shooting down the Russian transport plane carrying the Ukie POW’s for swap. Patriot crews were hit hard in the destruction of their systems, but also a barracks.
An earlier instance was Russia hitting a deep soviet bunker in central or western Ukraine with Kinzhal. Martyanov wrote a bit on that. Russian internet rumor had it that a nato headquarters was hit, and I believe that was also accompanied by universal western anger but particularly American.
A lot of the stuff from Russian bloggers I dismiss, but those instances, I suspect there was something in what they reported.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 21:51 utc | 390

@Peter AU1 | Sun, 07 Jul 2024 21:51:00 GMT | 391

He was a severing NZ military on ‘unpaid leave’. The NZ military head said about 100 of its forces were in Ukraine on ‘unpaid leave. NZ is a small country with a small military.

“He was on a period of leave without pay at the time of his death and was not on active duty with the NZDF.”
Uniformed personnel are required to notify their chain of command of international travel plans when taking leave without pay, however are not required to check in routinely.
The NZDF is still inquiring into the circumstances of this particular case. Corporal Abelen’s leave request did not include plans to travel to Ukraine.
When a uniformed member of NZDF takes leave without pay, they are still considered to be serving, and are subject to various Defence Force Orders. They are able to go and pursue other employment opportunities during this time and travel, with approval required to enter some countries (including Ukraine).
The NZDF does not know how many ex-serving personnel may have travelled to Ukraine. When a person leaves the Defence Force, the NZDF does not track their movements.
It is not known how many NZDF personnel on leave without pay may be in Ukraine. No personnel have been approved by NZDF to enter the country.
No NZDF personnel on active service have entered Ukraine since this conflict began.
The soldier who has reportedly been killed was not a member of any contingent who deployed as part of NZDF’s support to the efforts in Ukraine.

https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/further-details-released-on-nzdf-soldier-reportedly-killed-in-ukraine/
Take it for what it’s worth, but I didn’t see anything about a “hundred” New Zealand troops in Ukraine. Unpaid leave usually means either inactive reserves or AWOL, meaning he was a mercenary.
I agree with Milites, any Western troops are at best special forces, and the numbers would be very small. Less than 5,000 in total is my guess. The vast majority of those are likely volunteer mercenaries, and not active-duty, or otherwise related to their national militaries.

Posted by: James M. | Jul 7 2024 22:24 utc | 391

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 6 2024 20:41 utc | 73
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no excuse for being fat or severely overweight aka obese. The US is infested with obese people.
Have you never heard of insulin resistance?
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22206-insulin-resistance
Also, diet soda with artificial sweeteners have proven to mess up the way the body uses insulin, leading to unintentional weight gain. The “cure” is making the problem worse, not unlike the COVID vaccines leading to higher overall death rates.

Posted by: Paranaense | Jul 7 2024 22:25 utc | 392

Political earth quake in france…
Sprise swing to the left away from right wing.
Starmer tells izzy’s some reality’s and hamas acknowledges palistines rights.
My take he know’s the Corbynister lobby have got him by the balls.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 23:14 utc | 393

James M. | Jul 7 2024 22:24 utc | 392
The report I read in the ABC has been dissipated. Did find another Kiwi, supposedly ex military who was killed there. He was on a mission for Ukraine intelligence according to the report. Quite different to joining the foreign legion or the neo nazi units as non state mercs do.
Would be interesting to know what unit the Kiwi on unpaid leave was serving with.
Also after that report, there was another, can’t remember if it was Australian, brit or Canadian were asked if any of their military was on ‘unpaid leave’ in Ukraine and they said their was.
This will be the same throughout the west and the military’s will certainly know they are taking unpaid leave to go to Ukraine. I assume they all have a mechanism for this and they will join special units.
From the Russian side I learned that many of these so called mercs have gone to Ukraine not as individuals, but as specialy trained units. The Russian side can tell the difference between these and the fools in the likes of the foreign legion by the way they are equipped and trained.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 7 2024 23:23 utc | 394

Political earth quake in france…
Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 23:14 utc | 394
Nope. The earth quake would have been ending support to the penis piano player and the ukronazis. That will not happen as all parties present in the parliament agree on that support.

Posted by: Naive | Jul 7 2024 23:31 utc | 395

Posted by: Wisco | Jul 7 2024 5:41 utc | 265
Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2024 15:57 utc | 350
——
When evaluating a novel, please do not confuse its reputed literary skill; with its messages or themes; with your own like/dislike of it at an immature age. And I say that as an author of both fiction and non-fiction.
Siddhartha, at its deepest, deals with themes in contexts quite foreign to Westerners. Hesse visited India in 1911, wrote Siddhartha in 1922, but it wasn’t published in the US till 1951. So it was a book quite outside of the zeitgeist in those times. Both Hesse and Siddhartha have always been highly lauded in Europe (a Nobel in 1946). So that tells you something about the cultural differences of readership and academia’s assessments elsewhere.
So to pan it as “total crap”, or “only good for teenage boys” only shows the level of superficiality your teachers were qualified to impart and your own (youthful) disinterest in its themes. Try reading it in your 60s. You might find it quite different. 🙂

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 7 2024 23:52 utc | 396

Both Hesse and Siddhartha have always been highly lauded in Europe (a Nobel in 1946).
—you mean like “Bob Dylan[insert registered trademark symbol here]”? or Svetlana Alexievich (curiously not awarded on the basis of her Stalin panegyrics)? or Sienkiewicz? (actually a good writer of historical novels, but hardly world class) or the grotesquely overrated Eliot and Hemingway?
So to pan it as “total crap”, or “only good for teenage boys” only shows the level of superficiality your teachers were qualified to impart and your own (youthful) disinterest in its themes. Try reading it in your 60s. You might find it quite different. 🙂
—I imagine I’d dislike Hesse even more now, thanks!
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 7 2024 23:52 utc | 397

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 8 2024 0:25 utc | 397

Naive @ 396
Nope i disagree amacably (to heads being better than one)…..
Now the tory party UK is rubble. Labour in as UK govenment with izzy puppit starmer as PM that leader ship has poor foundations….
Why… becouse 200 of the new Labour MP’s are Corbyns people with an old score to settle.
Thats the back ground… this is the point…
Will europe be so keen to take on Russia without the uk. Good luck with that.
Not going to happen.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 8 2024 0:36 utc | 398

@Peter AU1 | Sun, 07 Jul 2024 23:23:00 GMT | 395

This will be the same throughout the west and the military’s will certainly know they are taking unpaid leave to go to Ukraine. I assume they all have a mechanism for this and they will join special units.

The only other New Zealand solider I saw that was killed in Ukraine was Kane Te Tai who was retired from the NZ military. He wasn’t with Ukrainian intelligence, but with the International Brigade. In other words, he was a volunteer mercenary.
I don’t know about other countries, but in the US there are a lot of redundancies the military has to go through just to send troops abroad, even for secret missions. Also, there are chain-of-command issues, and really trust issues, that would likely prevent the US from subordinating their troops to Ukrainian command. It’s probably the same with other Western countries.
The only capacity they could realistically fill is advisory – if they are there, which is still a big question. I know it is hard for Russian milblggers to stomach, but the vast, vast majority of the fighting is done by UAF – Ukrainian forces. There may be valid reasons for Russia’s “slow pace”, and the length of the war, but “NATO” troops in theater isn’t one of them.

Posted by: James M. | Jul 8 2024 0:39 utc | 399

@ Wisco, my earlier comment was not directed at you. Your comments have merit, even if there are some which I may no agree with completely.
I would like to end this thread via Simplicius’ post,
Russian analyst Older Eddy:
“We will say one thing. The more power and its dogs drive the Ukrainian people to fight, the larger the collapse will be. At some point, the front will simply sprinkle, as 80% of the army will consist of those who do not want to fight, or tired, or disappointed.
It’s like building a house, but making concrete for walls and foundations according to the formula of 12 bags of sand for 1 bag of cement. For some time it will stand idle, and after that « will begin to fall asleep », and if there is a minimum « earthquake », it will simply collapse. So in the situation with the Zemobilization and the Armed Forces.
This is a time bomb.”

Posted by: Suresh | Jul 8 2024 1:22 utc | 400