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Palestine Open Thread 2024-166
News & views related to the war on and in Palestine …
Of interest:
IDF presents Oct. 7 probe to Kibbutz Be'eri: 'We failed to protect you' – Haaretz
The probe revealed that more than two tank shells were fired at a house in the Kibbutz, The source added, where Hamas terrorists were barricaded with hostages. According to the source, the investigation focused on the decisions of mid-level field commanders but does not clarify the extent of the senior command's responsibility.
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Only an anti-fascist front can save us from the abyss – 972mag
Israeli society will emerge from this war more violent, nationalist, and militaristic than ever. The work of curbing its worst impulses must start now.
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Posted by: canuck | Jul 12 2024 10:57 utc | 45
“You are one ignorant, vicious asshole. . . . [You would have] all collectively punished.
It’s uneducated, myopic, intellectual lightweights, like yourself, that give Zionists emotional capital to proclaim themselves ‘victim”
Lots of ignorance going around at the Bar recently.
polli’s comment @ Jul 12 2024 1:13 utc | 21 implies failure to have robust control of the facts:
“Roughly 90 years ago, a bunch of secular Jews fled Ukraine,Poland, Germany because idiots were killing their families in the streets.
Those refugees are the Zionists.
In fact, Betar, the Polish Jewish youth enamored of Jabotinsky’s doctrine of violence, formed as early as 1923 in Latvia. Benjamin Netanyahu’s father, Benzion, became Jabotinsky’s secretary then successor. Bibi himself fully endorsed Jabotinskyism.
Many Polish Jews were assisted by the Hebrew Aid Society (HIAS) to flee Latvia, “Ukraine, Poland” for the safety and opportunities of Germany. The “Idiots” they fled were Russian Bolshevic/Communists who were on a killing spree targeting (primarily) Christians, peasants, farmers. These Jabotinskyites brought with them the chip on their shoulders and the penchant for violence and disruption.
According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA), in May 1933 its reporter accused German ambassador Hans Luther of “antisemitism.” http://www.jta.org/1933/05/26/archive/nazi-jewish-policies-political-not-religious-dr-luther-asserts
Luther responded that
“limitation of Jewish influence in Germany was being conducted with the greatest possible consideration toward the old native Jewish families who, he said; had proven themselves good Germans and indicated that it was directed against the Eastern European Jews who had overflooded the country since the War.”
(read the link for the full context)
Curiously, a few months earlier, in February, 1933, Louis Brandeis, simultaneously a judge on US Supreme Court and leader of world-wide zionism, directed that “all GERMAN Jews leave Germany.” (see Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement, 1984 ed., p. 78). Brandeis was aware that Jews in Eastern Europe were oppressed by “idiots” who were not German; and that many had fled by the tens of thousands to safety in Germany, but they were not Brandeis’s concern: Eastern European Jews offered neither the wealth nor the sort of “human material” needed to create the “new Jew” to develop the zionist colony in Palestine.
By this time — early 1933 — the Jewish colony was already over 25 years old. TelAviv had been built by 1910 in a style to appeal to German Jews — but with toilets: see Arthur Ruppin and the Production of Hebrew Culture in Palestine . According to a 1907 letter from Ruppin, The Picture in 1907 , already by 1907 Baron Rothschild had spent lavishly to create a Jewish colony in Palestine: based upon comments by a later member of the Rothschild family, the 1917 Balfour Declaration was less an “establishing” document and more a sort of shifting of financial support as well as political and military security: by the time of the Balfour Declaration, zionist Palestine already had a core population, cities, banks, institutions, and an oraganization paradigm based on German forms of social systems as well as Ruppin’s own deeply-held eugenic ideology.
As to comrade simba’s proposal @ Jul 11 2024 22:16 utc | 13: Compare comrade’s “vicious” recommendations to those of the lauded Juliania, who maintained that
“Israelis, even Masada was not as bad as this horrorful time has been! Nothing in the Bible describes events such as these! No holocaust is this senseless eradication; no justification is possible.
A madness came upon you; you were misled”
while I maintain that Juliania holds a sentimental, sanitized, a-factual version of the zionist narrative.
Does the leopard change its spots? Or its inverse: Can one gather figs from thistles? (Matt 7, 16). If what is manifest now, in real time (rather than in narrative) is, as Matthew says, evil, are we to assume that it is the fruit of an innocent tree? Or is what we are seeing zionism unmasked?
Whose version of reality, of the “truth” that Juliania advocates for, presages a world in which our grandchildren will be safe: Juliania’s world in which the thistles will be watered and the leopard mistaken for a kitten; or comrade simba’s “vicious” world where the leopard is sequestered away from the possibility of mauling our children and thistles are plucked in order that figs may flourish?
NB: I cannot categorically and totally endorse comrade simba’s proposal. But I would rather start with that proposal as a First Draft. Especially appealing is the requirement for reparations. In some courts, “Allocution” is part of the process of re-integrating into civilized society. In the old Catholic system, the elements of Confession required
-Speaking out the ‘sins’ to a representative of the Community;
– Repenting (think again) of them;
-Making reparations;
-Making the commitment “with the help of divine grace (and the Community/ecclesia)” to “sin no more.”
To cycle back to the Nazi analogy that, I suspect, many barflies find so offensive: Many of comrade simba’s proposals for the Jewish collective were meted out upon the German people, collectively and until this very day. In very many instances they were falsely accused and wrongly punished. Based on a reading of Cora Sol Goldstein’s Capturing the German Eye, the key element in the de-Nazification of Germany post-1945 was the Allied occupiers’s “monopoly on the use of violence.”
Why is it that so many of us, and to this very day, are comfortable with the “vicious” measures carried out against our European brothers who were- and continue to be- falsely accused; but are chary of offending those that we see, with our own eyes, are committing outrages against the innocent for no reason other than zionist ideology?
Posted by: ChasMark | Jul 12 2024 14:54 utc | 61
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