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July 7, 2024
Palestine Open Thread 2024-160

News & views related to the war in Palestine …

Of interest:

IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive (archived) – Haaretz
'There was crazy hysteria, and decisions started being made without verified information': Documents and testimonies obtained by Haaretz reveal the Hannibal operational order, which directs the use of force to prevent soldiers being taken into captivity, was employed at three army facilities infiltrated by Hamas, potentially endangering civilians as well

Communication networks could not keep up with the flow of information, as was the case for soldiers sending these reports. However, the message conveyed at 11:22 A.M. across the Gaza Division network was understood by everyone. "Not a single vehicle can return to Gaza" was the order.

At this point, the IDF was not aware of the extent of kidnapping along the Gaza border, but it did know that many people were involved. Thus, it was entirely clear what that message meant, and what the fate of some of the kidnapped people would be.
… One case in which it is known that civilians were hit, a case that received wide coverage, took place in the house of Pessi Cohen at Kibbutz Be'eri. 14 hostages were held in the house as the IDF attacked it, with 13 of them killed.

I guestimate that at least half of the 1,200 Zionist casualties were killed by their own army.

Does 'Israel' want war? – Al Mayadeen
A time of imponderables has arrived. War never proceeds according to plan.
by Alastair Crooke

…

Posted by b on July 7, 2024 at 14:05 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Most of the Israeli victims on October 7 were not supporters of the ruling coalition, so killing them didn’t hurt the government

Posted by: Polli | Jul 7 2024 14:10 utc | 1

On Oct 6 the only thing that would save the ruling coalition was a war

Posted by: Polli | Jul 7 2024 14:11 utc | 2

The policy goals of the ruling coalition remain
Keep Bibi out of jail
Destroy the Israeli left wing
Increase worldwide antisemitism
Prevent an election

Posted by: Polli | Jul 7 2024 14:13 utc | 3

“Bronze Age goat herding tribal dogma isn’t a great framework for modern living.”

Posted by: hightrekker | Jul 7 2024 14:22 utc | 4

“I guestimate that at least half of the 1,200 Zionist casualties were killed by their own army.”


One thing that has always bothered me about Israeli reporting is the lack of transparency. I did not see any Coroners confirming rape / murders. This is an extremely distasteful subject, but Coroners providing a list of victims and cause of death is something that should have been done.
BTW what gets you to such a high number MoA?

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Jul 7 2024 14:33 utc | 5

Did Israel issue the Hannibal Order before or after the attack began.

Posted by: BlockMan | Jul 7 2024 14:49 utc | 6

Re: killed on 7.Oct ?
The (very) rough figures seem to be around 900 Israelis killed with around 400 IDF, 200 paramilitaries, and 300 civilians. Nearly all of those civilians were killed by the IDF.

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2024 14:50 utc | 7

Rings of never attribute to conspiracy what incompetence can accomplish just as well.
Stunning if confirmed.
And on to Hezbollah next.

Posted by: jpc | Jul 7 2024 14:50 utc | 8

thanks for the links b..
the 2nd article is fairly disturbing for the conclusions it draws and i think they are accurate.. not sure where this goes, but it doesn’t look good..
as for the first article – i think the hannibal doctrine has been in place since before all this started and initiated as stated – oct 7th… people are only coming to find out about it now?

Posted by: james | Jul 7 2024 14:54 utc | 9

In the early noughties there was a TV documentary series about war & warmongering. The voiceover introduction to each episode was:
“War never proceeds according to plan. If it did, both sides would win.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 7 2024 14:58 utc | 10

Posted by Menz on other thread
🔻🔻 Breaking
Shocking news for Tel Aviv: The largest ambush for a group of tanks, armored personnel carriers, and special forces soldiers in the area east of Rafah. Initial reports indicate 35 soldiers killed or injured.
https://x.com/SilentlySirs/status/1809722013243621492

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2024 15:01 utc | 11

From Haaretz:

Gantz: ‘Every Gazan who crossed into Israel on October 7 was punishable by death’
Benny Gantz, head of the opposition’s National Unity party, declared on Sunday that “every Gazan who crossed into Israel on [October 7] was punishable by death,” following an investigation into three Israelis who are suspected of killing an unarmed Palestinian who crossed the border during Hamas’
(…) Gantz added that he has not seen the evidence the police have regarding the alleged illegal killing, and that he “trusts law enforcement officials,” but that, at the same time, all Palestinians who crossed into Israel “were a clear and immediate danger.”
“We must remember, there were many weapons laying in the area, and some civilians also functioned as drivers who kidnapped Israelis.” Therefore, according to Gantz, “In this situation of chaos, surprise and guerilla warfare for many hours, we must back and fully support those who fought – soldier, police officer or civilian.”

https://tinyurl.com/tb2f628n

Posted by: Leuk | Jul 7 2024 15:01 utc | 12

/cheep
librul, your efforts to focus and compile evidence upon this has been vindicated.
May this place, MoA, be an archival honor to history for deconstructing a possible false flag exploitation to justify greater historical horrors. Thank you, b, for your calculated risk to let librul and others to discuss the Official Narrative’s discrepancies — even in the face of Germany’s crackdowns on speech of recent years.
🙂 B is a friend to the good-hearted peoples of the world forensically piecing together the horrors of current events. You are the space to give conscientiousness the pause it needs to puzzle out who is doing what to whom and how, for what and why. A victory to the forces of revelation and judgment!
/cheep cheep, hooray!

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 7 2024 15:07 utc | 13

Israel has no future, that’s the much ignored, since 1947, realisation that’s gripping the consciousness of zionists.
Much like the US medias faux shock that their president is a vegetable, the citizens of Israel will have to admit that moving to a country and trying to kill off all the natives was probably not the smartest thing to do.
Like the Democrats, the Israelis are waking up to reality. Sure, they can nuke Iran, big deal, they’re still screwed, of course they can bomb the crap out of Lebanon, so what. All their options still leave them without a future, and with big daddy soon to be broke and destitute, their backup is gone.
Maybe the Israelis should nuke the city of London Square mile as payback for ruining their lives, they may get some kudos and even a bit of sympathy from their neighbours if they did so.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Jul 7 2024 15:24 utc | 14

Why did so many commenters here object to librul’s postings? If they had any arguments, I don’t remember them.

Posted by: Lysias | Jul 7 2024 15:29 utc | 15

Jewrael’s forthcoming attack on Lebanon warning a few weeks ago reminds me of Dilbert’s preliminary pre-meeting meeting cartoon.
It was obviously a fishing expedition to find out how much support is likely to come from the Jew$lave$ in the Christian Colonial Cuntries such as Oz and USUK.
If an attack on Lebanon by the jews proceeds before the Presidential Election, it’ll be pretty good evidence that the bosses of the IOF’s Weekend Warriors believe too much of their own balderdash.
Hezbollah has already told Jewrael that they’ll stop blasting the crap out of Jewrael when Jewrael stops genociding Palestinians.
So the ‘war’ could stop tomorrow if the jews weren’t so addicted to self-pity and self-indulgence.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 7 2024 15:36 utc | 16

Posted by: Milites | Jul 7 2024 15:02 utc | 340
Good thing Biden is a ‘good Catholic boy’ and totally not a barely closeted dominionist who used to have dinner with Phil Donahue and the rest of those weirdo Catholic league pro Israel zionists who want to start the battle of Armageddon so that their zombie Jew can return and whisk them off the paradise. Magiddo is not near the border with Lebanon is it?

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 7 2024 15:36 utc | 17

I fully expect the IDF will destroy as much of Lebanon’s infrastructure as possible. I don’t know how many different armed political factions there are in Lebanon these days. How many of those factions are anti Hezbollah? Expect Israel to stir up the hornets nest. Lebanon will probably become a basket case after this invasion. Israel will also pay a price. Peace doesn’t have a chance.

Posted by: Leroy | Jul 7 2024 15:37 utc | 18

jpc@8 cites Hanlon’s razor. But as all of us who went to public school know, playing dumb is a time-honored excuse. My preferred razor is, reading minds to attribute motives is usually unwise, because telepathy isn’t real. What’s valid in Hanlon’s razor is more or less expressed in the principle of charity. Arguments that simply dismiss arguments because of the imputed malice are simply less convincing than addressing the most sensible interpretation.
The compelling objective observation as to IDF motives in their attack on Gaza is revealed in the attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank in my opinion.
There have been enough public reports that it seems IDF fire discipline is as weak as the US army’s in Iraq. Don’t know enough to endorse or critique our host’s estimate of friendly fire casualties in the IDF, but it doesn’t seem impossible to me.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 15:57 utc | 19

https://x.com/IranObserver0/status/1809949199456203108
Iran Observer
@IranObserver0
⚡️BREAKING
Israeli media are now reporting the total destruction of the Meron Air Control Base by Hezbollah, which oversees Israeli operations in Lebanon and Syria

Posted by: guest | Jul 7 2024 15:58 utc | 20

Why did so many commenters here object to librul’s postings? If they had any arguments, I don’t remember them.
Posted by: Lysias | Jul 7 2024 15:29 utc | 15
Because he copied and pasted his dumb long manifesto over and over again on each thread for months, usually being sure to get in the first ten posts, often with a sock account with a name like oct7is911 and shit lile that.
And yes, many people did try to argue against the false flag narrative, didnt matter, next time the thread would lapse into the next multiple of 100, librul or one of hos socks would be there to copy and paste his stupid manifesto again

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 7 2024 16:01 utc | 21

“Most of the Israeli victims on October 7 were not supporters of the ruling coalition, so killing them didn’t hurt the government..”
Posted by: Polli | Jul 7 2024 14:10 utc | 1
374 Israeli soldiers were killed on Oct. 7; last time I looked they worked for the govt.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 16:03 utc | 22

France Kidnaps Iranian For Posting Pro-Palestine Content
Richard Medhurst video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tLh2OBNgL0k

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2024 16:05 utc | 23

“Because he copied and pasted his dumb long manifesto over and over again on each thread for months, usually being sure to get in the first ten posts, often with a sock account with a name like oct7is911 and shit lile that.
And yes, many people did try to argue against the false flag narrative, didnt matter, next time the thread would lapse into the next multiple of 100, librul or one of hos socks would be there to copy and paste his stupid manifesto again..”
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 7 2024 16:01 utc | 21
I agree=it wasn’t his argument itself-it certainly was plausible-but it was the copy and paste infinite redundancy which was the irritant.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 16:06 utc | 24

Documentary Showing: Israel’s Second 9/11, How Zionism Conquered JFK, America & Palestine
Kim Iversens Rumble site posts a comprehensive documentary in the Zionist takeover of US
https://rumble.com/v55j41o-documentary-showing-israels-second-911-how-zionism-conquered-jfk-america-an.html

Posted by: ld | Jul 7 2024 16:10 utc | 25

1. “Bronze Age goat herding tribal dogma isn’t a great framework for modern living.”
Posted by: hightrekker | Jul 7 2024 14:22 utc | 4
So true. Yet slaughtering and smearing the blood of goats, burnt offerings are kept very quiet today.
2. Good thing Biden is a ‘good Catholic boy’ and totally not a barely closeted dominionist who used to have dinner with Phil Donahue and the rest of those weirdo Catholic league pro Israel zionists who want to start the battle of Armageddon so that their zombie Jew can return and whisk them off the paradise. Magiddo is not near the border with Lebanon is it?
Posted by: badjoke | Jul 7 2024 15:36 utc | 17
A tsunami of monied DC Americans (District of Columbia, Dual Citizens) are now replaying their childhoods, claiming they didn’t know Santa Claus was really Dad, once they confronted the real truth.
Old Joe was senile? Say it ain’t so. 81 million honest injun votes. They tricked me…I tell ya…
Best Democracy dirty money can buy.
“fiat currency and central banking reward grift more than production of goods.” One of Tyler’s commenters finds the core of America’s fatal cancer.
Money is founded by a real economy. Money is just an empty promise without a real economy.
Some in the Middle East are desperate to avoid the future they have made for themselves.

Posted by: kupkee | Jul 7 2024 16:27 utc | 26

jpc@1450
One situation which sticks out like a newly circumcised pecker is the relocation of that Rave to within eyesight of the largest outdoor concentration camp on the planet. Who made that last-minute decision and why? Clearly, from their own sources and from Talmudist mothered Sisi running Egyptian intel from the catbird seat; the Zionist $tate was full well aware that the Hamas resistance…and others…were about to do a prison-break.
Also, the withdrawal of a considerable proportion of their troops to the West Bank from Gaza is nothing but totally suspicious.
What WAS a surprise was that Hamas and buddies had been prepping their underground resistance for years on end…ever since “Operation Cast Lead”…As of tomorrow the resistance has been wiping out now almost exactly 200 Merkava tanks over nine full months. I$raeli casualties on the ground is well into the thousands. Bibi is getting desperate.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 16:43 utc | 27

War never proceeds according to plan. If it did, both sides would win.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 7 2024 14:58 utc | 10
Nice quote.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 7 2024 16:45 utc | 28

“Not only was the Nova festival at the Gaza border approved last-minute by the Israeli authorities, two entire brigades of soldiers were removed from the area to the West Bank.”
https://x.com/BenSwann_/status/1809312398634893778

Posted by: Blob | Jul 7 2024 16:49 utc | 29

I guestimate that at least half of the 1,200 Zionist casualties were killed by their own army.

That estimate is seriously generous. Photos that day had shown acres of vehicles destroyed and along roads around the concert area with burnt bodies, many unidentifiable that were the recipients of hellfire missiles. Hamas that day did not employ either helicopters or hellfire missiles that day (or any other). An estimate of 90% and northward were victims of IDF ‘Hannabal directive’ orders, the blood is entirely on IDF hands. It looks like about 5% or less is on Hamas hands, after all their objective was to collect hostages, not kill them. The Hamas resistance was entirely legitimate as that right of an occupied people. Gorget all the propaganda you’ve received for 75* years; get on the correct side of history.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 7 2024 16:59 utc | 30

pretty sure that “1,200” has been downgraded to the triple digits by now. factor in the legit targets like IOF and “israeli” police and the civilians were probably 50%+ zionist-on-zionist casualties.
it’s not like the hostages taken into gaza have been any different, either. they’re all just fodder for the golden calf of zionism.

Posted by: bornhard | Jul 7 2024 17:03 utc | 31

Eowin Clancy@1542
On this and other posting sites, I’ve long campaigned for a totally kinetic (no nukes please as even one would open Pandora’s Box) hypersonic strike on that little private bank in City of London (aka the “Square Mile”).
Unfortunately the Zionist entity, as well as the bank$ter’s attack-dog, the U$$A military, do NOT possess hypersonics…even while North Korea!!! and possibly Iran do sport such weaponry.
What such a strike by kinetic means on that bank would accomplish would be to send a message which would rapidly reverberate right across the planet. Message would be to strike as close as possible to the evident heart of the Beast.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 17:07 utc | 32

At #30 Typo
Change Gorget to Forget please.
9 months seeing 1,200 per.sons killed by Hamas has been a burr under the saddle. All liars can do is lie.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 7 2024 17:07 utc | 33

Steven t johnson@1557
Had never previously heard of “Hanlon’s Razor”. Would Hannie be maybe a first-cousin to Occam?

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 17:11 utc | 34

guest@1558
Judging from that photo of the hole in the bubble, that Nasrallah’s “Dare You” pronouncements have entered into the realm of “Double Dare You”. lest it be otherwise unsaid, the Israeli General Staff types are extremely averse to even the vague possibility of an assault on Lebanon.
So it looks as if the little Bibi is caught between the legendary rock and the hard-place. Can one even imagine the neuroses currently shared by that con-man as well as Snot-Rich and Bennie Gvirstein.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 17:18 utc | 35

The tell for me was netinyahoo flatly refusing any kind of investigation till after the conflict. And thats not to say such an inquiry would have any truth or reality to it, it would’nt
Thanks goes to @ Librul for his dogged tenacity.
@ Canuck is a trump supporter. Say no more.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 17:20 utc | 36

enopugh with the yahoo they are khazhar identity thieves name stealers the plague spreaders of old europe the blood ritualists the real polluters of the well
property theft torture murder consumers of blood the authentick dracul the real.
leon britain greville janner bb nuttyahoo epstein island robert maxwell what dna did they have rupurt murdoch keer starmer semite or a sick tainted ashkanazim pirate hue
generational cull reset through history needs the devils children someone has to do the work for baal moloch call them what thou wilt

Posted by: todd | Jul 7 2024 17:22 utc | 37

Exile@1605
What France severiously needs is another Bastille incident…perhaps followed by extremely judicious employment of the guillotine. Treason against the people, the real nation, is rampant throughout the Collective Wa$te. Too many of those pro$titicians are owned by a combination of bribery and blackmail. France too, has its Linda Grahams.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 17:24 utc | 38

formerly T.Bear@1659
Thanks.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 17:28 utc | 39

/cheep
To add further to Blob’s X link at post 29, the Israeli local official who normally signs off on rave party permits in the desert said in Israeli media this was highly unusual. He said no at first but then was over-ruled from above. And when he contested it to his immediate superior as a danger the response was it came from higher up demand to be permitted and licensed there ASAP in a breathtaking two day window. So much suspicious act against better judgment and broken protocol *before* leads to obvious questions about Official Narratives *after*.
Keep digging and exposing these jewels to the light. Sources are coming from so many angles. What an opportunity to thwart an intelligence operation upon the world in real time! 🙂 Let’s all cooperate with sunshine in dark places so we may dance in the light in the future!
/cheep cheep

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 7 2024 17:32 utc | 40

Now the Festival of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching,
and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people.
Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.
And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.
They were delighted and agreed to give him money.
He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.
Luke 22:1-6

Posted by: phenon | Jul 7 2024 17:35 utc | 41

Most of the Israeli victims on October 7 were not supporters of the ruling coalition, so killing them didn’t hurt the government
Posted by: Polli | Jul 7 2024 14:10 utc | 1
All of them were supporters of the colonial occupation.
So killing them did indeed hurt the government.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 7 2024 17:37 utc | 42

I should add: The local permit official’s ‘no’ was for the strange reassignment area to a sensitive and possibly dangerous location too close to the Gaza border and military bases. The rave was already permitted months in advance much further away in the deeper Negev desert. It was suddenly revoked of its already made permit and reassigned with pressure to expedite the permit processing to this new, more risky location.

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 7 2024 17:40 utc | 43

“Not only was the Nova festival at the Gaza border approved last-minute by the Israeli authorities, two entire brigades of soldiers were removed from the area to the West Bank.”
Posted by: Blob | Jul 7 2024 16:49 utc | 29
Run through the record of all festivals held near Gaza in the last decade and tell us how many times that same pattern occurred …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 7 2024 17:41 utc | 44

Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness
1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “ ‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ ”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
Matthew 4:1-11

Posted by: phenon | Jul 7 2024 17:46 utc | 45

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 17:07 utc | 32
Okay, I agree, non nuclear is probably better. Mossad have a blueprint from 23 years ago.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Jul 7 2024 18:00 utc | 46

Note – the Irgun dressed up as Arabs in the King David Hotel Terrorist atrocity.

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2024 18:11 utc | 47

…
Unfortunately the Zionist entity, as well as the bank$ter’s attack-dog, the U$$A military, do NOT possess hypersonics…even while North Korea!!! and possibly Iran do sport such weaponry.
…
Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 17:07 utc | 32
Good catch!!
The lazy dumbass Yankees have been flogging their 2nd rate weaponry to a captive market in the Collective West since WWII. They didn’t see the need to upgrade the specs because the CW is used to doing what they’re told.
You wouldn’t believe the quantity and quality of the useless military junk Oz has bought over recent decades. Now we’re signed up for $360 Billion of redundant submarines to “counter China”.
Oz’s greedy kickback-motivated politicians are oblivious to the likelihood that $360 Billion is probably enough to allow Oz to finalise our Scramjet research and develop our own hypersonic missiles – which would give Oz the chance to defend Oz, from Oz, without provoking China – our most important trading partner.
We’re definitely living in the Age of Psychopathic Fuckwit leadership.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 7 2024 18:22 utc | 48

Off-Topic: Orban is on his way to China, where he is expected to arrive on Monday morning
▪️ This was reported by the Hungarian media, citing sources.
lordofwar

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 7 2024 18:30 utc | 49

I’d be very interested to find out more about that guestimate of 50%+ friendly fire casualties.
I can’t figure out from the article which areas have been confirmed as free fire zones. From this map it is not as if near the actual fence a lot of Israelis got killed https://oct7map.com/ . They should add a map.
Ok so there were military bases which were targeted but these won’t have many civilians. Be’eri is mentioned but not linked to the directives given.
Also the map only has the Israeli casualties. About 1000 Gazans died that day. Where?

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jul 7 2024 18:59 utc | 50

Another thing is the conceptual changes the friendly fire count can cause. If ‘some people died because of Hannibal’ that doesn’t make a big impact. If a lot of IDF soldiers died that way also not a major impact.
But if half of the civilians were killed that way then the perception of the ‘immense cruelty of Hamas’ is hard to keep up.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jul 7 2024 19:03 utc | 51

Hanlon’s razor (or rule) is usually quoted as “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” The variation in jpc’s working is insignificant.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 19:07 utc | 52

“The tell for me was netinyahoo flatly refusing any kind of investigation till after the conflict. And thats not to say such an inquiry would have any truth or reality to it, it would’nt
Thanks goes to @ Librul for his dogged tenacity.
@ Canuck is a trump supporter. Say no more.”
Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 17:20 utc | 36
Mark2 , I applaud Librul for his ‘dogged tenacity’-but repeating the same script over and over is irritating-I got the gist the first time, and , apparently, he was correct LOUD APPLAUSE
Librul is no dummy, I would suggest that if he put his mind to other issues than this one his contribution to the blog could be greater, in my humble opinion..
And, now, you Mark2, you, unlike Librul , are a dummy Marxist; yes, I support Trump over Biden- supporting candidates that are not going to be elected is idiotic {see above, ‘dummy Marxist’, editor].
And, to be honest, I have given up voting in Canada…

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 19:20 utc | 53

Re: friendly fire deaths
IDF helicopter gunships were in spray and pray mode. IDF main Battle Tanks ditto. Those heavy weapons can do a heck of lot of killing.
On the other hand – the Al-Qassem soldiers were armed with puny AK-47s.
Make your own conclusions

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2024 19:21 utc | 54

Why are the Cabbages For Christ taking so much space here?
A little comedy is ok, but not this much.
Maybe I’m being a little harsh?

Posted by: hightrekker | Jul 7 2024 19:25 utc | 55

Has any one mentioned that horrerble footage from the izzy helicopter gunship.
You can kill a lot of people with that very fast. I saw a long version then that seemed to dusapear off thd net replaced by a gastly short version. Ther must be other footage sat on by netinyahoo. No wonder he refused an investergation.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 19:29 utc | 56

06.05.24
You have been warned’: GOP senators caution ICC over Israeli arrest warrants
Such actions are “illegitimate and lack legal basis,” the lawmakers wrote, warning they would result in severe sanctions against the ICC.
“Target Israel and we will target you. If you move forward with the measures indicated in the report, we will move to end all American support for the ICC, sanction your employees and associates, and bar you and your families from the United States,” the senators wrote in the letter sent April 24.
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/06/congress/gop-senators-warn-icc-on-israel-00156232
20.05.24
ICC war crime charges against 3 Gaza citizens (Coincidence not after US Legislative body making threats a few weeks before (lLegislative should be seperate from Judicary too))
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state

Posted by: phenon | Jul 7 2024 19:41 utc | 57

Thw who. Wont get fooled again, you tube.
To qoute… meet the new boss just like the old boss.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 19:47 utc | 58

Obveous typo the not thw

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 19:49 utc | 59

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 16:03 utc | 22
But it doesn’t mean that they’d have voted for Bibi’s coalition in the elections, which was Polli’s main point Oct 7 has helped Bibi et. al cling to power and avoid criminal trials. So far…

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 19:59 utc | 60

Hanlon’s razor (or rule) is usually quoted as “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” The variation in jpc’s working is insignificant.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 7 2024 19:07 utc | 52
Always quoted by people who do not understand how malicious and conniving people can be, along with Occams razor.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 7 2024 20:01 utc | 61

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2024 18:11 utc | 47
Dressed up as Arab *women*…and King David only gets so much attention because most of the victims were British. Irgun and others carried out many bombings in the ME in countries like Iraq and Egypt to convince local Jews to move to Israel.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 20:03 utc | 62

@exile 11
Double naughty.
and @23
Good video. Medhurst maybe doesn’t know france, but has been like that for a long time. Speaking from own (similar kind of) experience and then research.
This for real
https://t.me/gazanewsnow2021/148090
?

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 7 2024 20:06 utc | 63

hightrekker
Trivilising scripture about avoiding Satan’s schemes: on your soul be it

Posted by: phenon | Jul 7 2024 20:11 utc | 64

guestimate that at least half of the 1,200 Zionist casualties were killed by their own army.
…
Posted by b on July 7, 2024 at 14:05 UTC | Permalink
A bit like the Euro2024, one of the best scorers in the first stage was “own goal”
Now for some fun, let’s see what Jean-Luc Mélenchon does with his victory…

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2024 20:16 utc | 65

From Weiss’ weekly briefing:

Oh, and as for illegal settlements, this week, Israel announced yet another big land grab in the West Bank, and the Democratic Party and the liberal Zionists merely wrung their hands, as usual.
This is Zionism. The redemption of the land of Israel for the Jews and only the Jews. The slaughter of those who resist. And the blind support from the empire, assured by a powerful American faction. Pray for deliverance.

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/07/weekly-briefing-normalizing-genocide/
One tomato costs $12 in Gaza. Half the family savings for two cans of beans.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jul 7 2024 20:19 utc | 66

Reading the comments, and the various (non western) news sources, I can come to no other conclusion that israel was indeed aware of the impending invasion. Let It Happen On Purpose (LIHOP), if you will. The israelis were warned by both US and French intel services of ‘something big’ imminently happening. israel withdrew 2 brigades from the Rave area just prior to the attack. Why?
israel LIHOP for a number of reasons. These range from keeping netanyahu out of jail, and in power and a casus belli enabling israel to grab as much Palestinian land as the iraeli offensive forces could gobble up.
As far as the war goes, the israeli public in largely in favour of it. There are detractors to be sure, however the anti voices are primarily those of family of the remaining captives, if any.
Now, the israelis are looking north to Lebanon (or is it Lebensraum?)
The israelis have become that which they despise. Complete with committing their own holocaust. The NAZI’s were shown no leniency – for the most part – and israel should be shown no leniency either.

Posted by: rgl | Jul 7 2024 20:31 utc | 67

Posted by: Blob | Jul 7 2024 16:49 utc | 29
############
To which I often say, “And?”
We know they commit malfeasance. We know they lie. We know they are corrupt. We know this stuff in high detail.
We know Epstein blackmailed elites via rape and pedophilia.
We know that Biden has been mentally incompetent for a couple of years.
We know about the Lusitania, the Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11, and the USS Liberty.
And what does knowing all of that mean? What do we do with ANY of that knowledge?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jul 7 2024 20:36 utc | 68

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 7 2024 16:45 utc | 28
(Both sides would win)
If memory serves, the documentary series was called Great Military Blunders and there were approx 6 episodes. One episode was called Who’s Sorry Now?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 7 2024 20:36 utc | 69

Off topic this one, but the film/movie Midnight Cowboy, a metaphor of the USA. John Voight as D Trump and Dustin Hoffman as J Biden, I think it works.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Jul 7 2024 20:45 utc | 70

Ray McGovern: Israel wants to drag the US into the war with Hezbollah.

Posted by: WMG | Jul 7 2024 21:00 utc | 71

phenon@1941
That all-out assault by no fewer than ten GOP senators against the international court tells us all we want to know about the two-parties in one peapod political monopoly system. Tom Cotton originally relocated to Arkansas, like one of the Rottenfeller brothers did years earlier. He mostly did that on accounta his surname, which along with huge campaign contributions by the usual suspects was all that it took for those cotton headed voters down there in the torrid zone of S.E. Arkansas.
Something about high levels of heat and humiliated relatives which is a bit much for the N.W. European descended brainpan. Cook-brains are also readily suckered by those Boobtoob Evangelists with their holier than thou symphonies.
Anyhoo, just about every pro$titician in the Di$tricrt of Corruption is OWNED by big time Zionist donors. Those pro$ties do NOT represent We The People any little bit. They are bought and paid for in this ruptured republic. Their sense of justice is limited to their own back pockets…or purses…as with the blackmailed closeted types like Miss McConnell and Linda Graham. Just try to imagine if some of the Epsteinization videos were to be “shared” with those cotton headed voters in Kentucky and South Carolina.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 7 2024 21:03 utc | 72

Ray McGovern: Israel wants to drag the US into the war with Hezbollah.
Posted by: WMG | Jul 7 2024 21:00 utc | 71
No offense or snark intended, but “duh.”
Several if not most of us around here called that last November.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 21:10 utc | 73

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 21:10 utc | 73
To add to that, a couple of things.
1) The “duh” is aimed at McGovern, not WMG. If that’s Ray’s hot take in July of 2024, I fear for his mental state. I hope it’s just something he’s said before and is trying to drive the point home now. Also, see #2.
2) The only way that Israel opens a real 2nd front/war in the north with Hezbollah is if the USA is effectively a full and direct combatant in the war. Needless to say, the Israel friendly captured mass media will moan that the US has stumbled into another war.
But the fact is that Israel is absolutely going to do everything they can to make sure the US becomes a full-on co-belligerent against Hezbollah. The duo will also likely make a few more attempts on Assad and Syria.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 21:20 utc | 74

Posted by: hightrekker | Jul 7 2024 14:22 utc | 4
It worked well against the Seppos in Afghanistan though…

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 7 2024 21:27 utc | 75

Always quoted by people who do not understand how malicious and conniving people can be, along with Occams razor.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 7 2024 20:01 utc | 61
But I do understand!
Malicious and conniving always.
But you can add stupid into the mix as well in this instance.

Posted by: jpc | Jul 7 2024 21:28 utc | 76

@steven t johnson | Sun, 07 Jul 2024 15:57:00 GMT | 19

My preferred razor is, reading minds to attribute motives is usually unwise, because telepathy isn’t real.

The first part of this statement is stupid, and the latter is wrong.
The Chinese consider us in the West barbarians, quite rightly so, because they employ a very subtle form of politeness which is centered around attention towards others’ motives.
My buddy who is a psychotherapist follows a specific school that has constant attention to the motives of a client as its central tenet. After he told me about it, I began to practice it myself, and it turned to be one of the single most helpful pieces of advice that I ever got.
As to telepathy, check out Dean Radin. It’s been empirically clear for about 100 years now.

Posted by: persiflo | Jul 7 2024 21:33 utc | 77

@71
Ray McGovern: Israel wants to drag the US into the war with Hezbollah.”
Iran and Hezbollah also welcome this. It is better to destroy and humiliate America on Israeli soil. Then on Iranian and other Mid East lands.

Posted by: golddigger | Jul 7 2024 21:46 utc | 78

My buddy who is a psychotherapist follows a specific school that has constant attention to the motives of a client as its central tenet.
Interesting. Can you name the school? I struggle to understand people’s motives, in part to better protect myself from “negative” behaviors.
As to telepathy, check out Dean Radin. It’s been empirically clear for about 100 years now.
Posted by: persiflo | Jul 7 2024 21:33 utc | 77
Thank you for this. I have had clairvoyant & clair-audient experiences throughout much of my life.

Posted by: Mary | Jul 7 2024 21:53 utc | 79

Posted by: persiflo | Jul 7 2024 21:33 utc | 77
“My buddy who is a psychotherapist follows a specific school that has constant attention to the motives of a client as its central tenet. After he told me about it, I began to practice it myself, and it turned to be one of the single most helpful pieces of advice that I ever got.”
Do you have any links? Sounds very interesting and useful.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 21:53 utc | 80

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2024 16:05 utc | 23
At least one comment thread in the video calls for a boycott of French products.
Whatever rows their boat. But, unless the companies covered in such a boycott (e.g. Carrefour) overwhelmingly support Israel, I’m not sure I get the logic behind a blanket boycott of French goods just for the crime of being from French companies. Where does one draw the line between that and ‘cancel culture’?

Posted by: joey_n | Jul 7 2024 21:56 utc | 81

the possible real death toll in Gaza
https://x.com/ecomarxi/status/1810060375343439973
The Lancet, pretty much the most credible scientific journal in the world regarding medicine, has *conservatively* reported that 186k people *or more* could have been killed in Gaza.
This is not being broadcast on Western media channels.
https://x.com/ecomarxi/status/1810048220183024114
“Applying a conservative estimate … it is not implausible to estimate up to 186k or even more deaths in the current conflict in Gaza. … this would translate to 7.9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip.”
— The Lancet
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext
THIS. IS. GENOCIDE.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jul 7 2024 22:05 utc | 82

A couple of things:
1. Israel can never be a ‘normal’ state—it is the nation-state form of the ghetto, with the ghetto’s worldview. Every move will be sectarian lashing out. It is the outsider, and has entitled itself to operate with the impunity of the outsider (outside international law, the UN, even outside liberalism).
2. Antisemiticism is on the rise, but this is planned. Again, Nietzsche is right here: without victimhood Jewish identity vanishes.
When your national identity consists of resentment, parochialism, exceptionalism, vengefulness, vindictiveness and the worst kind of ethnic entitlement, your short history as a nation will be as a thorn in the feet of neighbouring nations. Perhaps it is taboo to ask, but I will anyway: Jerusalem was always an imagined future for the diaspora—when it became a reality, did they not secretly resent the loss of their ancient sense of self that such statehood demanded they let go?

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 7 2024 22:07 utc | 83

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 16:03 utc | 22
“But it doesn’t mean that they’d have voted for Bibi’s coalition in the elections, which was Polli’s main point Oct 7 has helped Bibi et. al cling to power and avoid criminal trials. So far…”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 19:59 utc | 60
Fair enough, but that brings in the existential question-Netanyahu will make idiot military policy thereby, most likely, destroying Israel as we now know it to stay out of prison.
Oct. 7 may work for Netanyahu but not for Israel IMO

Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 22:07 utc | 84

Just to let you all know i have just posted importanted comment on the ‘b’s Uk election thread’
Good night all.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 22:08 utc | 85

Israel…it is literally everything Americans are taught to believe america should exist to oppose and fight + everything that Americans were told as the justification and reason for the war on “terror”
It’s OK, kids, there is plenty of precedents to justify and adsolve the destruction of Israel

Posted by: Hahajizzjizz | Jul 7 2024 22:10 utc | 86

Bulletin bulletin bulletin. Kissinger’s protege, the pompous puppet Klaus Schwab has the answer!!! The elites must “force our collaboration … to obtain a peaceful future” Problem solved. I’m sure y’all are happy. I wonder if Nutty Yahoo got the memo? Meanwhile Bribem says he’s only talking to God. Where are the grown ups? Sorry Kids. Sometimes it’s just too much. Cheers.

Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | Jul 7 2024 22:14 utc | 87

Oct. 7 may work for Netanyahu but not for Israel IMO
Posted by: canuck | Jul 7 2024 22:07 utc | 84
Completely agree. And not only that, but it’s only a temporary reprieve for Netanyahu and his Likud-whatever-else-coalition, presuming that this doesn’t kick off into a much wider regional, if not world war. I don’t put the latter past him either. Bibi is a psychopath, like many of the members of Likud and the Israeli Zionist far right. I won’t waste the thread’s time with more talk of the “Samson Option” but it’s not looking good for the Israel project long-term.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 22:42 utc | 88

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 7 2024 22:07 utc | 83
I’ll disagree with one thing, there, although the lines are increasingly blurred – intentionally – of course.
Jewish identity (and there are multiple types) is not the same as Israeli & Zionist identity. As we all know by now, one of the main goals of the Holocaust Industry and the grievance/victimhood narrative is to conflate Jewish identity with Zionism/Israel by way of increasing (the perception and reality of) global “antisemitism.” Like Polli said in one of the first posts on the thread, the aim is to *increase* worldwide antisemitism against diaspora Ashkenazi and Israeli Jews. This is a long-term project; been around since before Israel was even declared a state, since the Irgun and other early Zionist terrorists.
IMO it’s important not to get sucked into the conflation. Among reasons, not the least of which is the criminalization of so-called antisemitism in “the west.” Obviously not all Jews are Zionists. I guess one could argue that *most* Jews are, at least in the US/UK. Zionism relies on “Jew hate” and actively seeks to foment and spread it. Creates the appearance of the “necessity” of a “Jewish homeland” (in Israel). Feeds the victimhood complex. Justifies ‘by any means necessary’ to ensure “Never Again”, yadda yadda yadda.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 7 2024 22:55 utc | 89

https://rumble.com/v55j41o-documentary-showing-israels-second-911-how-zionism-conquered-jfk-america-an.html
Kim Iversen “Israel’s Second 9/11, How Zionism Conquered JFK, America and Palestine
Just watched this and while I read “The Devil’s Chessboard” this doc makes it clear what Israel really is.

Posted by: furies | Jul 7 2024 22:58 utc | 90

The psychological school comes from Switzerland, probably their proceedings are in German. I actually never read them, the idea alone did it for me. That said, it was only around age 35 that I began to understand how people tik. It was a book on “Narcissism and Borderline Disorders” by Otto Kernberg that opened my eyes while I was trying to understand Johanna.
Kernberg is hard stuff (and indeed tangentially relevant to the palestine chronicling, btw). But you may just start somewhere else and read up on psychology according to your own situation. There is actually lots of useful literature out there written for laypeople.
Interestingly, there are also quite good ‘beginner’s guide’ style books explaining to you telepathy. It’s as if the only people who have no idea about this seem to be the western scientists (and doctors) who’ve been raised according to the materialist paradigm. Once you’ve realized where to look for these kind of experiences, you will discover that they are almost constantly there, just usually very faint, so you need to learn making them conscious. Strong affects and emotions are typically submitted best.
My advice to Mary would be to slowly learn that you may trust your intuition in many or even most cases. The process can be supplemented with analytical, intellectual tools, as I did with good effect, but I don’t think it’s really necessary.
Animals and even plants do it, too. And clair-tasting is also a thing! I learned this only last week, but soon realized I’ve had this ability forever. It shows when ordering meals in a restaurant to good satisfaction, at which I excel; but I have had pots of rice ‘calling’ me over when it was just ready. I also don’t really need tasting when I cook, and sometimes only do it in order not to confuse a guest.
Sorry for going OT here, I hope it may be forgiven.

Posted by: persiflo | Jul 7 2024 23:06 utc | 91

already posted
sorry for the redundancy

Posted by: furies | Jul 7 2024 23:06 utc | 92

We now have numerous report from IDF Apache pilots that they used their 20mm auto cannons and missile pods to strafe celebrants at the Rave Music Festival because they could not distinguish music concert goers from Hamas and PIJ soldiers……so kill them all….in fact they admit to rapid rearming at their airbases initiate more sorties to kill even more folks…..
Hundreds of concert goers were slain by the IDF, yet the MSM has almost completely ignored this……….

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Jul 7 2024 23:40 utc | 93

Seems Israelis are just starting to question why everyone hates them so much globally.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-809171

Posted by: Hankster | Jul 8 2024 0:04 utc | 94

Posted by: Hankster | Jul 8 2024 0:04 utc | 94
From the link:
“Others say Israel deserved what it got on October 7 because of the irrational hatred Israelis harbor for one another.”
LoL.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2024 0:30 utc | 95

“Is God an antisemite” lmfao. Those clowns in Israel…in their national newspaper.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 8 2024 0:56 utc | 96

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2024 19:29 utc | 56
They have over 50k hours of video from Oct7th that they have blocked from release. However the gun camera footage for the AH-64’s are automatically sent to Boeing as part of the AH-64 program.

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 8 2024 1:19 utc | 97

michaelj72@2205
Thanks. No doubt there are tens of thousands of Gaza Palestinians lying dead under all that rubble which has not even begun to be removed. If the Lancet is doing some probability factoring, they may be pretty close to the reality of that massive genocide against “Amelek”.
My opinion is that Jews with any sense of compassion and human feelings have a duty to denounce the more evil parts of the Old Testicles, most particularly the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. The also will ultimately need to utterly abandon their “Chosen” people narrative and to make certain that their children never get that kind of programming.
Perhaps the first stage in genuine Jewish enlightenment would be to shitcan the Bris…or to at least make it contiguous with the Bar Mitzvah. By that time, the boy should have matured sufficiently to make up his mind about the unkindest cut.
Jews who are systematically incapable of living with others will in time need their own place, likely an island far, far away from other humans…possibly St. Helena or the Falklands/Malvinas. Chosenite money is quite sufficient to muniificently purchase that “real estate”. Should it be that any of the otherwise very well compensated natives of those islands desire to remain in their homelands, it would not be unjust for them to convert to Judaism.
Eventlually justice must be served. The parasitical tendencies of some Judaics suggest that no other people should be exposed to such nefarious breaches of trust.
In any event, Palestine is absolutely the WORST possible location for an exclusively Jewish homeland.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 8 2024 1:21 utc | 98

“Is God an antisemite” lmfao. Those clowns in Israel…in their national newspaper.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 8 2024 0:56 utc | 96”
_____
All wisdom in the Abrahamic religions proceeds from the realization that the Abrahamic god is evil.

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 8 2024 1:23 utc | 99

Mary@2153
For those of the rationalistic, materialistic, scientistic mindset; my recommendation for them would be to live with a tribe of cats for awhile. CATS KNOW. Dogs are quite telepathic and also empathic as well. Humans broadly shared those levels of understanding before we started fooling around with abstract alphabets and organized religions…along with centralized states where power is embedded in the hands of the few.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 8 2024 1:27 utc | 100

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