Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 17, 2024

Open (Neither Ukraine Nor Palestine) Thread 2024-170

News & views (not related to the wars in Ukraine and Palestine) ...

Posted by b on July 17, 2024 at 16:41 UTC | Permalink

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Hope your keeping well b and enjoying some well earned down time, as i am.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 17 2024 16:45 utc | 1

With regards to the "immigration question."

As I am a Swede I'd like to post a link to a Swedish, shall we say, "populist Left" website discussing its implications and consequences here. I think this is a pretty solid piece, though I also think it completely misses a key point and motivation for global capital encouraging it. I can elaborate.

https://visombyggerlandet.se/kr%C3%B6nika-att-krossa-en-v%C3%A4lf%C3%A4rdsstat/

Use Google Translate, the translation is semi-good.

Posted by: Tichy | Jul 17 2024 16:59 utc | 2

Has anyone put eyes on Maxwell Yearick since the shooting? The fact checkers aren't even trying to establish an alibi for him, they just say 'debunked. Authorities have identified Crooks as the shooter.'

Posted by: Honzo | Jul 17 2024 17:07 utc | 3

hello b

May be we need a neither
Ukraine nor Palestine nor Trump the martyr
thread ! ;-)

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 17:07 utc | 4

Ursula von der Leyen’s bid for a second term as European Commission chief has been dealt a major blow after a top EU court ruled she was not transparent enough with the public about Covid-19 vaccine contracts.

The General Court of the European Union ruled against the Commission’s decision to redact large parts of the contracts before making them available.

The ruling came just over 24 hours before von der Leyen’s political future will be decided by members of the European Parliament. She needs 361 of the 720 EU lawmakers to back her in a secret vote that is expected to be close.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eus-top-court-rules-against-european-commission-in-vaccine-contracts-transparency-case/


Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 17 2024 17:14 utc | 5

hello b

May be we need a neither
Ukraine nor Palestine nor Trump the martyr thread ! ;-)

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 17:07 utc | 4

Nah. This format will suffice. This will pass.

As a side note I can't remember a time when any "neither... or" thread has had more posts than the others before. That's fun in a way, I suppose.

Posted by: Tichy | Jul 17 2024 17:17 utc | 6

hello b

May be we need a neither
Ukraine nor Palestine nor Trump the martyr thread ! ;-)

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 17:07 utc

We just witnessed a classic assassination attempt.
Who could ever accuse the intelligence and security departments
of plotting any such thing?
We need an investigation to clear that up.
Never admit to culpability when you can demure to incompetence.

It made no sense to remove Biden from the contest
UNLESS
they could also remove Trump.

With Trump in place as the nominee, even before the miraculous event seen everywhere, not many would have a chance to even make losers of themselves.
NOW
a very limited exhibition of replacements will raise their hands in various ways,
although in a free and fair election they are doomed.
Perhaps the struggle for the next election's hot seat
using a knife in Biden's back.
Nice work, Brandon

Posted by: Not Ewe | Jul 17 2024 17:20 utc | 7

@4

The deep state in the capitol,of the empire is so terrorized by Trump and his supporters they are exciting assassins.

He is accused of establishing a dictatorship from “day”.

The Biden puppetry is shouting Trump is a clear and present danger to “our democracy”. The word democracy appears ZERO times in any U.S. law.

The neocon/neolib/PMC press is screaming Trump is going to kill “American democracy “.

All this is growing liberal nuts that will be allowed to shoot Trump.

Sure we don’t want that drama here.

Posted by: paddy | Jul 17 2024 17:21 utc | 8

@7

The blob needs Biden.

Any other candidate would need more fraudulent counted districts than the blob count couldmuster.

See 2016 when they grossly neglected the cheating needed in several states.

Same with anyone but Biden against Vance.

Getting Trump Saturday was very necessary.

Posted by: paddy | Jul 17 2024 17:28 utc | 9

Trump is a New York liberal.
As a contractor, he will say whatever he thinks the audience wants to hear.

Posted by: Polli | Jul 17 2024 17:29 utc | 10

... not planning to get too deep into the Trump thing ... not until more comes out at least ... but couldn't let this pass ...

Roof gunman used to shoot at Trump was not manned by US Secret Service for 'safety' reasons

“That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” she told ABC News on Tuesday.

She added that a "decision was made to secure the building, from inside”.


https://www.itv.com/news/2024-07-17/roof-trump-gunman-used-was-not-manned-by-us-secret-service-for-safety-reasons

Whilst I'm not arguing for a straight up conspiracy (yet) as many seem to be, this seems to to me to be a totally ludicrous statement. It also raises more incredible questions.

... such as does "securing the building from inside" mean that there were Secret Service personnel inside the building at the time?

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 17:32 utc | 11

Is it possible that there really was an Iranian assasination plot that the US government was aware of and the DHS Secretary deliberately made sure Trump's security detail was underresourced? Maybe the DHS Secretary was hoping Iran would succeed and actively helping out?

Posted by: isitpossible | Jul 17 2024 17:34 utc | 12

Whilst I'm not arguing for a straight up conspiracy (yet) as many seem to be

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 17:32 utc | 11

The amount of crazy conspiracy theories I've seen here over the last days has been staggering. (That's not to say I oppose "conspiracy theories" as conspiracies do in fact exist, I just don't like the Flat-Earther variants.)

That said I am leaning towards a feeling that the security detail in fact had orders not to protect Trump. That's how far I'm willing to go at this point.

Posted by: Tichy | Jul 17 2024 17:39 utc | 13

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 17:32 utc | 11

I neglected to add the person quoted making this ludicrous statement was Kimberly Cheatle, the Secret Service director.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 17:39 utc | 14

It was obviously an assassination attempt, with the Secret Service and cops ignoring a guy with a rifle, climbing a wall in plain sight, and getting to fire several shots at a Presidential candidate...Just a guy with a rifle would normally be arrested immediately...

Posted by: pyrrhus | Jul 17 2024 17:43 utc | 15

abc.net.au/planetamerica, broadcast an extended edition on July 17. It explored several aspects of the Trump assassination attempt which don't add up.

It runs for 50 minutes.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 17 2024 17:52 utc | 16

Was the kid father working for blackrock in addition to being pro nra and training him with firearms?
Perfect idiot must have thought eliminating Trump was the only way for the Dems to win.

Posted by: Minaa | Jul 17 2024 17:55 utc | 17

Posted by: Tichy | Jul 17 2024 17:17 utc | 6

Posted by: Not Ewe | Jul 17 2024 17:20 utc | 7

----------------------

I just keep thinking about Karl Rove's revelation,

We'r running the show, you can analysis to your hearts content.

LIke we'r cattles being shepherded from one crisis into another yet another, coming on fast furious.

Shall I say IM knackered after all these years .
No worry, if its good with b, its good with me.

Hmm
The UNz has finally come out with a thread.

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 17:56 utc | 18

Ursula von der Leyen’s bid for a second term as European Commission chief has been dealt a major blow

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 17 2024 17:14 utc | 5

---

You might think that this news item would gain traction on this erudite forum. But you would be wrong.

Hillbillies, hootenannies, joos and fabulous conspiracies are what most needs talking about.

Posted by: too scents | Jul 17 2024 18:00 utc | 19


The Magician's Game is wrapped in Distraction. Part of that is active manipulation of perceptions and lots of ambiguity. REALLY, the details are unimportant.

The important stuff, the stuff which needs a lot more awareness of and attention to, is most usefully presented with the aide of Karl Sanchez's Substack https://karlof1.substack.com/p/lavrov-at-unsc-usa-indeed-an-outlaw
Read it!

Posted by: DoesItReallyMatter | Jul 17 2024 18:00 utc | 20

Has anyone heard more about Victoria Nuland’s supposed comment that Trump would never become President again and that were would be a big surprise coming for the Russians if they had plans for it? Nolan’s is known to hate Trump and Russia with a passion, but it seems odd that she would reuse the term big surprise after making it last year with respect to Russian military plans

Posted by: Kadath | Jul 17 2024 18:12 utc | 21

Frauds and frame-ups have failed. Lawfare has failed. Assassination has failed. What is Plan D?

Posted by: dearieme | Jul 17 2024 18:19 utc | 22

I did see a video of the shooter on the roof as he was taking aim. His face was obscured because he was aiming on the right side profile. Looked like long hair and thin scraggly beard. My opinion was that he did not look at all like Crooke. Maxwell Yearick fought in Ukraine. Trained in sniping I guess.

https://www.caclubindia.com/assets/maxwell-yearick/

Posted by: Angelo | Jul 17 2024 18:20 utc | 23

@ too scents | Jul 17 2024 18:00 utc | 19:

You might think that this news item would gain traction on this erudite forum. But you would be wrong.

Hillbillies, hootenannies, joos and fabulous conspiracies are what most needs talking about.

You're right about barflies not catching important geopolitical news such as Von de Leyen's confirmation bid in suspense while Z Hillbilly news catching all attention here. I'm guilty too:-).

Now that news about Z Hillbilly has caught fire everywhere in the media, I'm learning a thing or two about the guy and have disappointingly decided to not vote this November AGAIN!!! Whoever wins in November matters not! The next 4-5 years will see major disasters befall America, BIG TIME!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jul 17 2024 18:26 utc | 24

Posted by: Honzo | Jul 17 2024 17:07 utc | 3

No but the blur around Crooks’ parents is quite something, lots of weird and contradictory stuff: his parents are both registered democrats but his father’s a libertarian who had MAGA gear in front of their house, both parents are registers psychological councillors, his income is $310,000 per year but he’s respected psychologist who’s published text books (which I can’t find), his sister is “hard working”, the kid helped her move into her apartment while his father only drove the van, possibly due to being overweight, while the kid was mistaken for a girl, on account of being so slight.

I wonder if a lot of this is opposition and ChatGPF rubbish to draw clicks, either way there’s remarkably little on his parents that is substantiated and the questions that arise from his parents supposedly being psychological councillors and him being shot dead as a would-be assassin are legion.

Anything on the parents appreciate.

Searched on “Matthew Brian Crooks”:

https://thesuperslice.com/blog/thomas-matthew-crooks-parents-behavioral-counselors-son-shot-donald-trump-mental-issues/

https://cargreen.es/2024/07/17/bl-wlv/rtsd413410ltcu51uihtml/new-details-emerge-about-family-of-trump-assassin-thomas-crooks-including-his-hard-working-older-sister

https://x.com/iancorzine/status/1812482003885011174

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 17 2024 18:27 utc | 25

China Ignorance on the Hill
July 17, 2024

As the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability hearing drew on, the claims about China grew more and more unhinged, writes Megan Russell.

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/07/17/china-ignorance-on-the-hill/

Posted by: lester | Jul 17 2024 18:29 utc | 26

Lunatic TDS victims tried to assassinated the Empire’s election front runner. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

TDS damage cases sure spent a lot of effort to assert that their assassination attempt was a nonissue.

I mean, it’s normal to post over and over that something is a nonissue, right? Nothing suspicious about that at all.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 17 2024 18:29 utc | 27

@denk | Jul 17 2024 17:07 utc | 4:

Surprised to see you this early on a new thread :-).

I didn't chime in on the previous thread regarding your dressing down of Tucker Carlson, because when comments grew to over 500, you would never catch as support from someone like me to know that you ain't alone in your opinion of Carlson. So, I'm making a posting here to add support to your verdict of a popular persona here at this bar. Yes, he is a White Supremacist/Sinophobe through and through. I reached that verdict myself over 10 years ago.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jul 17 2024 18:34 utc | 28

this lady really needs to be fired... it also raises the much bigger issue of how DEI has messed up so many of the institutions and present day society we live in..

"Kimberly Cheatle, the head of the US Secret Service, has cited safety concerns as the reason why her agents were not deployed on the roof of the building from which the would-be assassin targeted presidential candidate Donald Trump."

i read this 2 days ago and have to agree with the general thrust of the article...

A Compromised Secret Service

Posted by: james | Jul 17 2024 18:40 utc | 29

Yes, he is a White Supremacist/Sinophobe through and through. I reached that verdict myself over 10 years ago.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jul 17 2024 18:34 utc | 28

Tucker Carlson changed his views on China last year. He now rarely talks about China after talking non-stop about the "China threat" in 2020 and 2021. Months ago when he did mention China it was to note "who cares?" if they take Taiwan. He longer believes the US should intervene if China were to blockade Taiwan.

Posted by: caphill | Jul 17 2024 18:45 utc | 30

May be we need a neither
Ukraine nor Palestine nor Trump the martyr thread ! ;-)

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 17:07 utc | 4
This is the punishment for us making him read 1100 Trump comments while he was convalescent.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 18:53 utc | 31

Posted by: Not Ewe | Jul 17 2024 17:20 utc | 7
What we witnessed was a member of the audience not realizing that the WWE theater of US politics is not real and that it does not matter who gets elected in an oligarchy.

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 17 2024 18:53 utc | 32

SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 17:32 utc | 11

Workplace health and safety has become that ridiculous throughout the west that I would not dismiss it, but the rooftop security snipers behind Trump immediately make that claim bullshit.
It seems security was only inside the perimeters of the venue with local police outside. I saw a picture of security blocked from getting to the shed by the venues security fence. None tried clamber over, they stood around like a flock of sheep in the corner of a paddock until someone rammed a hole in the fence with an SUV.
A real clown show.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 18:55 utc | 33

I was looking at the photo of the ladder he used.
It was a ten foot step ladder. Sure as hell wouldn’t fit in a Hyundai Sonata unless strapped precariously on top.
He doesn’t look strong enough to heft a ladder that size, they’re pretty heavy, 35-45 pounds at least and clumsy.

So this kid just walks around with a ten foot stepladder and a rifle at a place supposedly protected by the SS?

I think that’s pushing the incompetency explanation a little hard.

So one theory down.

Posted by: Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 18:57 utc | 34

Frauds and frame-ups have failed. Lawfare has failed. Assassination has failed. What is Plan D?

Posted by: dearieme | Jul 17 2024 18:19 utc | 22

Already in effect: JD Vance, the White Obama. Game over, dudes. Trump picked Vance either because he's an idiot, or because he got the message- the people who are supposed to protect you can kill you, so play ball. With Vance as VP, if Trump is actually brave enough to rock the boat, Vance will become president, rally the patriotic Americans behind him, and pursue the PTB agenda just like every other president.

Posted by: Honzo | Jul 17 2024 19:01 utc | 35

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jul 17 2024 18:34 utc | 28
--------------

May be Im catching up with this Trump fever myself ;-)

You simply cant reason with a bigot like Carlson..
He'd been schooled by JImmy Dore about this China threat nonsense,.
fat lot of good it does.

I bet he's more in tune with this other guest on his show...

We don't need a military that's woman-friendly, we don't need a military that's gay-friendly -- with all due respect to the Air Force. We need a military that's flat out hostile. We need a military full of Type A men who want to sit on a throne of Chinese skulls.

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 19:06 utc | 36

"It made no sense to remove Biden from the contest UNLESS they could also remove Trump."

Posted by: Not Ewe | Jul 17 2024 17:20 utc | 7

I still think the kid acted on his own and Trump's detail was incompetent. But that is excellent analysis and a coherent motive.

It has been my view that since the campaign of the first Trump presidency it would be foolish to assassinate him. His base would absolutely be enraged. That remains true.

But I think the calculus has changed. Trump is going to get in. The Democrats have become more extreme starting with covid. Not that they weren't already. And I'm aware that the Republicans are extremists of a different sort.

I don't think it's unusual for two right wing parties to the duking it out in a pre-fascist country. This is a struggle for dominance between left and right fascism.

We have hit the point where he left faction is very fearful. Fear and Desperation. Perhaps we've hit the point where the Long Knives are being pulled out. Or they soon will be.

I forgot you mentioned it that this is definitely a good time for the rest of the world to work on projects together. They have a full year and maybe for where the US will be preoccupied with itself.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 19:07 utc | 37

We are seeing incompetence everywhere in the west now, US taking the lead, and I think poor security at Trump rally was part of that.
Incompetent political hacks promoted everywhere, narrative given priority over substance, blatant corruption everywhere, been counters looting and raping o=companies that once produced top quality goods, massive 1000% or more cost blowouts on everything.
Going back to the massive infrastructure building projects in the depression years in the US, and feature of the projects was they were all completed early and under budget.
They were built fast, built well, and built cheaply.

Now.... everything years behind schedule, massively over budget and then, more often than not, it is just junk.
But I think the same applies to everything US Government. Be it Trumps security or their wars and quite often recently the regime change operations that have failed. A result of three decades of hubris with narrative hacks rising to the top everywhere.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 19:08 utc | 38

Who gained ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 17 2024 19:11 utc | 39

@caphill @30:

Thank you for the info. I haven't kept up with Carlson's writing since about 10 years ago so I don't know about his change of views on some stuff. But in any case I never consider him a insightful analyst, just a popular pundit, all those previous years. He only writes what he thought his audiences want to hear. It's no different from most American politicians verbalizing what they think their target audiences want to hear. These people neither have the intellect nor the passion to understand issue in depth, and make meaningful contributions.

Generations of these kind of so-called opinion leaders and policy shapers has dumbified the western readership to the abyss. It's the same game plan of organized religions over the past couple centuries (Christianity, Muslim, Sun Worshippers, etc., etc.). It's also the same types of personalities that get to leadership positions in these organized entities--Big mouth; mean spirits; greed; etc., etc. :-)

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jul 17 2024 19:12 utc | 40

b, think of you everyday. just heal.

Posted by: annie | Jul 17 2024 19:12 utc | 41

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 18:53 utc | 31
----------------

b should take a good rest .

No worry.
We'd take good care of the bar and
do whatever house cleaning that needs to be done.

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 19:14 utc | 42

/appears at window sill

Get better, b! ^.^

Don't worry about us. The beer garden will survive.

OK guys, be good!

/flies off

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 17 2024 19:17 utc | 43

@ denk | Jul 17 2024 19:14 utc | 42

lol... i can picture you with a maids outfit, broom and dustpan in hand!!

Posted by: james | Jul 17 2024 19:18 utc | 44

Posted by: isitpossible | Jul 17 2024 17:34 utc | 12

I think it’s more likely a unicorn is behind this attempt than Iran.

Posted by: eman | Jul 17 2024 19:19 utc | 45

Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 18:57 utc | 34

What world do you live in? The Fred Flintstone era ... some of the idiocy I see here at times...

Australians by crap paper in as survival stuff, Americans must clear the supermarket shelves of tinfoil.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 19:20 utc | 46

Posted by: james | Jul 17 2024 19:18 utc | 44
-----------

My pleasure.

Where else would we go if the bar , gawd forbid, call it a day, or 'cancelled' off ?

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 19:25 utc | 47

signing off....

Posted by: denk | Jul 17 2024 19:29 utc | 48

RE: Trump shooting

We can all see that either the security was stunningly incompetent or there was a black op. Without more information there isn't much more to say on the matter.

The question is what happens next? The situation obviously stinks enough that it will have an effect on American's sentiment, confidence in government & MSM (especially after the MSM suddenly realized Biden has mental problems), etc. So, what does the bar expect as a consequence?

Posted by: team10tim | Jul 17 2024 19:33 utc | 49

Workplace health and safety has become that ridiculous throughout the west that I would not dismiss it, but the rooftop security snipers behind Trump immediately make that claim bullshit ... A real clown show.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 18:55 utc | 33


Agreed. My reason for posting the quote was how nonsensical it is. To imply that Secret Service personnel who I would presume are highly trained in multiple deadly techniques as well as the use of various firearms are unable to cope with a slanted roof for fear of falling stumps me. And as you say. its immediately highlighted for the nonsense it is by simply looking over Trumps shoulder to see Secret Service personnel on a slanted roof.

I can only conclude that Kimberly Cheatle (Secret Service director) is an imbecile. In her position I'm pretty sure I could come up with a more plausible response, even it it meant slinging an underling or three under the bus.

But it still brings me back to the lie. We are now at a point where the gravity of the actions we see unfolding are so enormous and the lies so imbecilic it only seems to emphasise to my mind the falling of an empire. I was talking to a friend today and she made a comment - its like watching a play and the actors on the stage are getting louder and becoming ever more animated in an attempt to maintain the attention of the audience in the hope that they will not notice the scenery falling apart as ever larger chunks hit the stage floor.

A real clown show indeed.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 19:35 utc | 50

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 19:20 utc | 46

I don’t think it’s idiocy to think that an incompetent security detail could not be THAT incompetent. Plus the myriad of other LEO folks crawling all around that place. Were talking lots of people.

So I think an incompetency explanation for what happened is out.

Believe as you wish.

Posted by: Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 19:39 utc | 51

I'm not saying anyone will actually investigate, but one theoretical avenue is to look at say the last 10 or 20 Trump rallies (or events of that sort), and see whether some have similar security lapses (pointing to general competence issues), or whether this happened to be the exact one where a roof went uncovered, and lo and behold exactly the one where it got used by a sniper (pointing to a conspiracy).

Posted by: MindTheSlant | Jul 17 2024 19:43 utc | 52

Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 19:39 utc | 51

Your ladder bullshit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 19:43 utc | 53

Posted by: lester | Jul 17 2024 18:29 utc | 26

Thanks, good read.

What Megan doesn't understand is that in a liberal polity politicians need not have any expertise in technical matters or how the world works. They are experts on high level concepts. Those concepts could be simple and crass, but they are high level. These high level concepts come from the voters themselves.

The quotes from representatives were good.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jul 17 2024 19:44 utc | 54

I still think the kid acted on his own and Trump's detail was incompetent. …

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 19:07 utc | 37

Definitely a possibility but it’s a requirement of patsies that they have at least something of a compatible back story and incompetent conduct can be virtually guaranteed by assigning incompetent people.

In this case it’s remarkable how generic a figure poor Thomas Crooks is, not even a minimal history of narrative friendly activism, lax security to the point of absurdity, and an impenetrable blur around his psychologist parents.

There appears to be nothing to bridge the gap between shy geek and someone who’d take a gun to a political rally, climb on a roof in broad daylight and fire, with near success, to kill an ex-president about to become a presidential nominee.

There is nothing wrong in principle with assuming Crooks’ acted entirely on his own initiative but it is not yet a credible explanation. I think the matter has to exist in the gray zone of undecided, awaiting whatever other evidence might appear, even if there might never be version of events worth putting any stock in.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 17 2024 19:44 utc | 55

Ursula von der Leyen’s bid for a second term as European Commission chief has been dealt a major blow

This pseudo-revelation is a "major blow" only in the world of politico.eu propaganda.
The fix is already in, or it isn't... trying to drum up "interest" in her reascension is flimsy.

Posted by: MindTheSlant | Jul 17 2024 19:47 utc | 56

fyi Northern vassal news:

Premiers Push Federal Government To Accelerate NATO Defence Spending

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/premiers-push-federal-government-to-accelerate-nato-defence-spending-1.6967235

"It's great when you have everyone around the table in a consensus..."

Posted by: John Gilberts | Jul 17 2024 19:52 utc | 57

A bullit wound to the ear and not a speck of blood on a pure white coller directly below.
Not a drip heading in that direction.
A couple of streaks of lippy on the cheek.
?
Really.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 17 2024 19:53 utc | 58

The item that is being missed is that this whole site (where Trump gave his speech and the other businesses surrounding it) contains several commercial operations that had there own camera security. I didn't say probably because this is standard business practice.

Also, hundred of thousands of dollars of commercial equipment was brought in for the event. Who guarded this stuff? A local farmer in a rocking chair? Did none of these business hire Security Companies to monitor and patrol?

Where are these security system monitoring files snd other records?


Posted by: Jerr | Jul 17 2024 19:53 utc | 59

SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 17:32 utc | 11

"does "securing the building from inside" mean that there were Secret Service personnel inside the building at the time?"

It does. "So, you know, the decision was made to secure the building from inside." (Kimberly Cheatle)
It's not yet clear to me whether it was actually USSS people inside there or local police officers, but that building was manned inside.

The institutional failure and rot we're witnessing here is a real face-palm fest. They "decided" to secure the outside of the building from inside, from where you can neither watch nor access the roof should the need arise. Also, the perimeter of that building was never off-limits to people. It's below ridiculous. Trump may be alive, but any sense of duty, responsibility and professional rigour and honor must be dead and rotting.

---

Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 19:08 utc | 38

"We are seeing incompetence everywhere in the west now, US taking the lead, and I think poor security at Trump rally was part of that."

Exactly, Peter, absolutely agree. And as a German, I'm in no position to look down on anything happening in the US or anywhere else in the West. Over here, we're Post-Merkel, which is Von-der-Leyen present.

---

isitpossible | Jul 17 2024 17:34 utc | 12

"Is it possible that there really was an Iranian assasination plot that the US government was aware of and the DHS Secretary deliberately made sure Trump's security detail was underresourced? Maybe the DHS Secretary was hoping Iran would succeed and actively helping out?"

Nice of you to ask, but no, the Iran fairy tale is just the damage-control mode.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 17 2024 19:55 utc | 60

"I mean, it’s normal to post over and over that something is a nonissue, right? Nothing suspicious about that at all."

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 17 2024 18:29 utc | 27

Yes I'm sure there are thousands of government trolls pushing that narrative. What I would say is that it's not the least bit surprising William.

The TDS demographic, even limited to those that advocate violence, number in the Millions.

It is widely known that threesome people are deeply siloed. But I noticed the people they listen to are well spoken with carefully prepared arguments. They often have excellent credentials. In short, if you don't fact check them, they are entirely credible.

There are probably 10,000 people just like this kid. He was at the right venue when, for whatever reason, the security was atrocious.

From past experience I would say he even use the only approach that would work. Just walk in like you own the place set up and get to work.

Although it's hardly new information, what stands out about this event is that a professional, particularly a team, would have been successful. It is extremely difficult to protect VIPs unless you do it in the way that Davos does with a total exclusion Zone.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 19:56 utc | 61

Xymphora has a link to Larry Johnson chatting with Pepe Escobar. Larry tells Pepe that the temperature on the roof was too hot (160 degrees) for the SS folks so they decided to monitor it from INSIDE the building.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 17 2024 20:02 utc | 62

Trumpista Jovan Pulitzer (inventor of Q-code) points out that the Trump hit was aired on all major networks live. I don't know if this is an accurate statement, but if it is that is highly suspicious because none of the major networks, including Fox, cover Trump rallies live usually, it's alternative places like Real America News or Republican Broadcasting Network (RBN) on Youtube, or Bannon's WarRoom.

https://wltreport.com/2024/07/16/jovan-pulitzer-return-snipers-did-not-kill-him/

Haven't heard it all but apparently he (like me) thinks the Crooks shooter is patsy and there was another shooter or shooters.

I also note that the story leaching out slowly about Crooks is that he voted Republican and his parents are Trumpsters. So the Patsy selected does not support Biden. Very convenient. No idea why such a person would try to kill Drumpff. No social media. No recent photos. Also very convenient.

Conclusion: this is looking more like a genuine hit which failed and for which eventuality they hadn't prepared their story lines well. Perhaps Governor Shapiro was set to emerge as a the Big Hero quelling ferocious riots all over PA with Patriot Front Red Hats clashing with Antifa etc. etc. etc. Then he could be the natural leading candidate going into the Dem Convention to Save the Nation from Fascist MAGA White Supremacist Mayhem.

All speculation of course.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 17 2024 20:06 utc | 63

It doesn’t even matter if it was setup or not - the point is you are looking where they want you to look. If you are talking about it then they win and the particular content of your act of service to empire is irrelevant.

So. Fucking. Stupid.

We have learnt nothing.

Posted by: Rae | Jul 17 2024 20:10 utc | 64

I think it’s more likely a unicorn is behind this attempt than Iran.

Posted by: eman | Jul 17 2024 19:19 utc | 45

Iran wasn't the one behind Crooks but maybe had another plot?

-

Nice of you to ask, but no, the Iran fairy tale is just the damage-control mode.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 17 2024 19:55 utc | 60

I don't get how it does damage control?

Posted by: isitpossible | Jul 17 2024 20:10 utc | 65

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 19:43 utc | 53

It is being reported here on many outlets:
He bought ladder at Home Depot that morning then drove to the rally in his Hyundai. (The picture of the ladder does NOT match what they claim he bought.)

If that is true he had to carry it to the building somehow with his rifle.
Since they are claiming this is what happened, I say it must not be. All of those myriad LEO and fire dept folks in that area would have to be blind.
So that means an incompetent security detail excuse doesn’t wash.
The story and the site pics are all out there.

I didn’t come up with ladder story, just commenting on it.


Posted by: Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 20:15 utc | 66

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jul 17 2024 19:12 utc | 40

https://x.com/ianbremmer/status/1768962533371551829

Tucker on Taiwan 4 months ago: "It's far away, and honestly, who cares?"

Posted by: caphill | Jul 17 2024 20:17 utc | 67


“That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” she told ABC News on Tuesday.


Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 17 2024 17:32 utc | 11

Good Lord these guys have military training, use firearms and are willing to take a bullet to save their charge but putting on a harness and tying off is too dangerous / beyond their technical abilities.

Here's a thought. Go out and rent a scissor lift and sit your sniper beside the building overlooking the roof ... or wherever they want to park the thing. They can even bring a shade umbrella and a cooler with snacks.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jul 17 2024 20:19 utc | 68

Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 17 2024 20:02 utc | 62

Best not to take things like that too seriously. I watched Larry Johnson's video just after the shooting. In all seriousness he explained his experience with firearms, that he had this and that qualification including instructor, and then said that without doubt, due to the sound of the gunshots, that a .22 caliber weapon had been used. That was utter bullshit. Larry's quite good on a lot of the inner workings in the US, but other things, not so good.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 20:20 utc | 69

Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 20:15 utc | 66
A ten year old kid could easily handle a ten foot aluminium ladder. If you took note of the video of him on the roof, he accessed the roof at the far corner. That is the car park. Carrying a ladder on a car is no different to the likes of a surfboard.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 20:25 utc | 70

For those arguing ”Let’s wait for more information to come out”, nothing that has been revealed since the first couple hours is of any value. The narrative management has long kicked into high gear. The further we get from the event, the less reliable the information will be. Just look at the attention MoA has gotten from the narrative managers, and realize the mass media has gotten similar narratives straight from Langley days ago. From this point forward we will get nothing but blown smoke.

Do pay attention to who is blowing the smoke, though. That’s useful information.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 17 2024 20:36 utc | 71

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 20:25 utc | 70

A ten year old kid where I live.

This kid looks skinny and pasty and weak.

So he unloads that huge clumsy ladder off the roof of his sonata, carrys that under one arm and a rifle bag with his few accessories and waltzes right up to a “secured building” with, supposedly, SS agents inside it.

And no one notices…

I don’t think incompetence washes as a defense.

Posted by: Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 20:43 utc | 72

One thing that is of interest, at least to me, is what Trump is now saying about Taiwan. As in why should America protect it, if they want our protection they should pay for it.
Is that just a Trump view, or is it the opinion of the realist faction of the deep state? The US has held Taiwan since 1949 as that completes US control of the first island chain.

Possibly it indicates that some in the US are recognizing China is now too powerful to place a naval siege on as per the 2014 Rand corp strategy?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 20:44 utc | 73

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 19:56 utc | 61

TDS and official incompetence fit well the surface appearance of the events on the day of the attack but after that TDS isn’t supported by what we’ve seen so far. Crooks’ background is goofy but apparently tangential to motive for assassinating Trump.

That might change but right now the official version of events is objectively unconvincing, regardless of whether it is correct or not.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 17 2024 20:44 utc | 74

It's not impossible that there's more to the ousting Biden faction than just worries over losing to Trump due to embarrassing feebleness, it could also be an uprising by some rational minded people in the DNC and the donor base, and maybe allies in the Pentagon, dissatisfied with the disaster in Ukraine. That would explain Biden's reluctance to abdicate, it's really his praetorian guard neocon clique that's resisting and against all good sense has been trying to hide Biden's precipitous decline, they sized up the forces aligned against them and realize if he goes they go and project Ukraine goes.

It's already too late to establish a brand for any replacement, Kamala is their only option, every day they delay makes the task that much more difficult, the implied disarray of pulling a replacement out the DNC's ass a few months before the election just adds more votes to Trump's mandate and longer republican coattails. Off the scale democratic party mismanagement, IMO something bigger is keeping Biden form quitting and I think it's internecine warfare over Ukraine and the atlanticist project. Just tossing that out there.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 17 2024 20:54 utc | 75

Its beginning to look like the Orange One's assassination was planned, but by which group of people.

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/07/17/this-time-there-were-multiple-zapruder-films/

https://www.rt.com/news/601174-expert-view-trump-shooting/

Meanwhile (US) military exercises, RIMPAC, say they have no country in mind when training to storming a building but the pictures on the wall give the game away.

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/07/16/us-led-military-exercises-in-pacific-wreak-havoc/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 17 2024 20:55 utc | 76

There's a bit of a Doco on youtube. Part of a city, I forget which, is the goldsmiths and jewelers quarter.
To make a living, some boys dive to the bottom of sewage drains or pits, gather the sludge of the bottom to take it back to the surface and pan it for a few specs of gold. These can be access through manhole covers in the streets. Raw fresh sewerage and quite deep. But at least they do find gold.
This thread - people diving into the sewerage, coming up with a handful of shit and proclaiming it gold... trump shooting jeez.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 20:58 utc | 77

Peter AU1 @ 77

I thought the last >1000 posts on the Trump assassination not unworthwhile, but another 1000 posts on the same would suck.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 17 2024 21:09 utc | 78

From previous thread (Jul 17 2024 15:41 utc | 1091):

There are only two possibilities:

1) it was staged;
2) it was not staged.

1)
* The sniper could go on the roof with a rifle, many people saw him, got alarmed, took photos and videos, he could aim and shoot when the SS received the order not to shoot him and did not shoot him; thus he was allowed to shoot several times before being liquidated very easily, as if rifles were pointed on him all along.
* Several times before the shots, Trump had his head turned to the right looking directly in the directions of the sniper; once he even extended his arm in that direction; no hint of a reaction on his part.
* On a still photo, there is something on his right hand after he touched his ear: does not look convincing and could be photoshopped.
* On later videos and photos, the blood on his face is bright scarlet red; this is not the colour of the blood, also it should be flowing. Is it?
* There is a video taken from his right, where it would have been possible to see the "ear shot"; but the video stopped before the first shot. Why?
* There should be plenty of videos. Where are they?
* The sniper was a zionist. Why would a zionist kill the most zionist president? This most zionist president who made kill Suleinami, chose Vance as VP. Now see Vance declarations about Iran (see note below).

2)
* Some people are in deep trouble for letting it happen when professionals would have prevented it even without orders or even with contradictory orders.

Now I guess the sanctions will be: promotions (like after 911).

Note: Trump is elected, and then he is killed. Vance becomes President and starts the war against Iran. Bingo for Israel!

Posted by: Naive | Jul 17 2024 21:15 utc | 79

I thought the last >1000 posts on the Trump assassination not unworthwhile, but another 1000 posts on the same would suck.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 17 2024 21:09 utc | 78

Yep to all of that.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 21:20 utc | 80

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 17 2024 20:54 utc | 75

The longer any or all of them can cling on, the more they can milk the situation for whatever advantage it is they crave, and the longer they have the juice to hit but not be hit in return. They’re all demoted if Biden loses nominal power.

You’d have to think there are better candidates than Biden that’ll swing into view as and when he’s deposed but they all know where each other’s dirt is buried so internal conflict can do more damage than external attack so there’s a kind of Mexican Standoff until Team Biden gives in.

Really, even if he could win against Trump, how decrepit would he be by the end of another term in office.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 17 2024 21:23 utc | 81

It is enough to read what wikipedia immediately jumped onto:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Donald_Trump

to understand that they are lying, as always. See JFK, MLK, RFK, moon, 911 articles (not to speak about Bucha, Mariupol theater, Kiev hospital, etc.).

When there is a crime, there is a motive. Here there is none considering the sniper.

Cui bono? Answer: Trump.

Only look at what happened: it looks like a movie. Fist, red paint and flag included.

Posted by: Naive | Jul 17 2024 21:26 utc | 82

1. The Probability, not absolute certainty, is that the American Blob/Deep Cesspool/criminal Mob shoehorned this 20 year punk as an assassin or decoy.
2. The ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the above Mob set up the conditions for an assassin is undeniable.
"Sloped roof'? The only thing flatter than that roof is the forehead
of that Neanderthal Secret Service Woman.
As claimed above the Heat of 160F is absurd. The punk assassin must be tougher than the U.S. Secret Service? The roof wasn't too hot. More chaff.

Posted by: kupkee | Jul 17 2024 21:26 utc | 83

I believe I heard somebody say on George Galloway's MOATS show on Sunday that Crooks was Jewish. I was initially inclined to discount the report. But on today's MOATS program, I heard Galloway himself say more than once that Crooks was Jewish. Anybody know if it's true? If it is, it is sure being covered up.

Posted by: Lysias | Jul 17 2024 21:30 utc | 84

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 17 2024 21:09 utc | 78

Corrected:

I thought the last >1000 posts on the Trump staged assassination attempt...

Posted by: Naive | Jul 17 2024 21:31 utc | 85

"I think that’s pushing the incompetency explanation a little hard.
So one theory down."
Posted by: Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 18:57 utc | 34

On top of that you failed to mention just so badly leave me SS on stage handled the event.

They did a somewhat possible job of having on top of. But not that good. However their job was to immediately get him out of there. They instead seemed a bit confused and we're very slow.

I'm paraphrasing some expert opinion here where they were very hesitant to criticize former colleagues. All of the analysis provided on the condition that it was speculative

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 21:31 utc | 86

OOPS
"On top of that you failed to mention just so badly leave me SS on stage handled the event. "

Should read:
On top of that you failed to mention just how badly the SS team on stage handled the event.

There's no excuse for sloppy analysis to have bad grammar to

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 21:33 utc | 87

But in any case I never consider him a insightful analyst, just a popular pundit, all those previous years. He only writes what he thought his audiences want to hear. It's no different from most American politicians verbalizing what they think their target audiences want to hear.
Oriental Voice | Jul 17 2024 19:12 utc | 40

Unlike most (American) politicians, Tucker Carlson has at least the courage to admit when he was wrong on an issue.

Like here in this video about the war in Iraq:
https://youtu.be/CL--KXNZxVA?feature=shared

Posted by: NoName | Jul 17 2024 21:35 utc | 88

Italian-Russian commentator Nicolai Lilin on youtube is reporting that the South Ukraine Nuclear Power Plant is having serious issues that Ukraine is hiding. Russian attacks to the electricity infrastructure has forced Ukraine to shut down two reactors over power worries but the third is also having stability issues. Ukraine is reluctant to shut down the third one as it would cause widespread electricity loss, they've been delaying, hiding, and figuring the EU will step in and somehow take care of it all. Western media is uniformly dead silent. Lilin is being a bit alarmist saying it could devolve into a Chernobyl disaster but given the quality of leadership in both the Ukraine or EU it's at least worth knowing about.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 17 2024 21:35 utc | 89

"They did a somewhat passable job of pilling on top of him. But not that good."

Dyslexia and crappy voice dictation are a terrible mix. My sincere apologies.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 21:36 utc | 90

Just in case you lack isomething to read or listen to ...

Ben Norton of Geopolitical Economy dot com who weekly hosts Michael Hudson and Radhika Desai for their Geopolitical Economy Hour provides a recap of Trump’s past record. Title of program, “Donald Trump is NOT a 'threat to the deep state'. Here is his warmongering record.” ~ 53 minutes but easily listened to at faster rate, reducing listening time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wwm4OiYY5M


~~

Also, Whitney Webb did investigative reporting on Trump, Thiel and Palantir in 2018:

https://www.mintpressnews.com/palantir-the-paypal-offshoot-becomes-a-weapon-in-the-war-against-whistleblowers-and-wikileaks/236545/

https://www.mintpressnews.com/tag/palantir/


Posted by: suzan | Jul 17 2024 21:37 utc | 91

On top of that you failed to mention just how badly the SS team on stage handled the event.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 21:33 utc | 87

Or they handled the show perfectly well...

And the winner is...

Posted by: Naive | Jul 17 2024 21:37 utc | 92

Events on the itinerary for the coming 12 months. First up is the last charge of the Euro brigade. After that the infighting in Europe begins.
Trump crowned emperor January 2024 and the bandwagon moves to the Asia Pacific theater along with increased bullshittery and wars towards Iran, Palestine genocide ect.

Collapse of empire. It would make a great prime time tv show - if it wasn't for the death and destruction it brings.

I guess for a lot of us here we have lived our lives and thge future is for our children and grand children. What it will be like for them in the collapsed west, living within the aftermath of empire may not be good, though that may differ greatly from country to country depending on post empire government structures and leadership of individual countries.

The Russian Federation had a decade of of post Soviet hard times before good leadership emerged and began the rebuilding.
The Soviets though had a good education system though right up till the collapse if not during.

For the west, there is both the decades old decline in quality of education plus gradual collapse of society over several decades with zero understanding of the rest of the world and a fantasy view of what we are as humans and even the very basis for human society.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 21:39 utc | 93

"Lilin is being a bit alarmist saying it could devolve into a Chernobyl disaster..."
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 17 2024 21:35 utc | 89
Wow. Maybe but that's probably the right tone to take. It could.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 21:40 utc | 94

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 21:39 utc | 93

Seconded!!!

Posted by: Naive | Jul 17 2024 21:42 utc | 95

Hoarsewhisperer @ 62

OK. I am probably the only person at this bar who has ever been a roofer. That roof is painted white ferchrissake. Entirely possible in full sun on a hot day a surface thermometer could hit the temp you suggest. But I doubt it. The air at boot top height will be just fine for getting work done. My crew used to hang the thermometer at waist height and call it quits when it was 140F. Helps to be young.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 17 2024 21:42 utc | 96

"The US has held Taiwan since 1949 as that completes US control of the first island chain.

Possibly it indicates that some in the US are recognizing China is now too powerful to place a naval siege on as per the 2014 Rand corp strategy?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 17 2024 20:44 utc | 73"

Peter, this is standard Yankee Trader Doctrine. The U.S. agreed with Chairman Mao to adhere to a One China Policy. And you can be certain that the U.S. has held firmly to that policy while American Billionaires, et al, profited handsomely while paying Slave Wages in Chinese Factories and annihilating American Industries, Jobs and Communities.
Now that China isn't jumping to every American command, the One China Policy is fading in the Rearview Mirror. What's new in the "trust me, I'm with the U.S. Government game ?"

Posted by: kupkee | Jul 17 2024 21:43 utc | 97

Posted by: Lysias | Jul 17 2024 21:30 utc | 84

I heard Galloway himself say more than once that Crooks was Jewish. Anybody know if it's true? If it is, it is sure being covered up.


Great question, I was doubtful but then I heard the Father writes Psychology papers. I have never known anyone seriously involved in that field that wasn't Jewish. I am ever so curious.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jul 17 2024 21:43 utc | 98

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 17 2024 18:27 utc | 25


Little on the parents or their son because probably Spooks.

I am curious: do any military-techy types here know if it's possible to have a nano or very small 'wasp drone' acquire a moving target, like say a right upper ear, and sting it? Or is that only in the movies?

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 17 2024 21:45 utc | 99

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 17 2024 21:33 utc | 87
It’s been done already.

However today is when the supposed shooter timeline was starting to come together and really get blasted out.

The “official” narrative about how he practiced at the gun range the day before, woke up, drove to the depot to buy the ladder, then drove to the event etc.

I was just pointing out one part.

Posted by: Archetypex | Jul 17 2024 21:46 utc | 100

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