Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 5, 2024
Election In Britain

The Tories have lost the election in Britain.

Labour, under Keir Stamer, did not win the election. It received less votes than it had received under Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 and 2019.

br>bigger

The turnout was low. The overwhelming voter sentiment was 'anything but Tory'. There was no enthusiasms for Labour and Stamer's program.

Labour, under Corbyn, had been a real worker party with socialist tendencies.

The deep state, with the help of the Israeli embassy, had launched a media campaign against Labour alleging that it was hiding anti-semitic tendencies. Corbyn made the huge mistake of not fighting back against it. In the end he was kicked out despite Labour's healthy election results.

Jeremy Corby, no longer in Labour, has been reelected. So have been five MPs who campaigned on a pro-Gaza position.

Stamer is a controversial figure. He seems to have been placed in his position by the deep state. His previous position was the Chief of the Crown Prosecution Service. He had a major role in indicting and incarcerating Julian Assange. 

After being installed he has moved Labour to the right. It is now occupying a pro-capitalism center-right position:

“What Keir has done is taken all the left out of the Labour Party,” billionaire businessman John Caudwell, previously a big Tory donor, told the BBC. “He’s come out with a brilliant set of values and principles and ways of growing Britain in complete alignment with my views as a commercial capitalist.”

The Labour Party highlighted his endorsement.

Stamer will hurt the British public more than the Tory did under Sunak.

There will soon be an uproar against him.

I do note expect him to survive for long.

Comments

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 5 2024 17:45 utc | 70
Maybe Corbyn can retake labour, unlikely put possible.
Not likely. He’s no longer a member of the party and they’re not going to let him rejoin. And in any case, Starmer has made changes to the leadership election system that weighs against anyone like Corbyn even being allowed to stand for leadership.
Its estimated that since Starmer got himself elected leader (on the basis of ’10 Pledges’, all of which he’d broken long before this election) 200,000+ party members have either left in disgust or been expelled, usually on spurious anti-semitism grounds (ie : being pro-Palestine). Those ‘anti-semites’ included many Jewish members – its been said that more Jews have been expelled from Labour since Starmer took over than at any other time in its history. Had this happened under Corbyn, you can imagine the mainstream media coverage. But Starmer – the Esthablishment’s choice – has been given a free ride.
Under Corbyn, Labour Party membership grew to make them the biggest political party in Europe. Starmer has destroyed all that, but hey – who needs them ? He’s got funding from pro-Israel sources, he’s got the Esthablishment backing him up, and luckily for him, a largely unsophisticated electorate that will still believe anything the MSM tells them.

Posted by: Red Star | Jul 5 2024 19:25 utc | 101

Simply put!
He’s a careerist creep!
Another bland sociopath.

Posted by: jpc | Jul 5 2024 19:26 utc | 102

In the UK. Starmer having won immediately robot-droned on about increasing so-called “defence”. The seat-losing Shapps went on about “defence” and protecting (what?) alleged democracy in Ukraine. Considerably defeated — but retaining his own seat — Sunak also drivelled about spending more on “defence”.
Clear what their multi-labels priority is … inflicting a big and everlasting war that’s of zero benefit to the public but allows those who misrule to be ever more dictatorial (and rich from bribes).
All the fucking shit-filled neoliberal yankee-sucking zio-pig same.
Curse the lot of them.
Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 14:20 utc | 20
————–
Lol, you drastically overestimate the condition of the British armed forces. Along with the British state’s ability to mobilize.
The UK forces are a husk even compared to what they were in 2003, before the Iraq War. That was after massive decline in the 1980’s & 90’s.
Starmar could announce a budget, with a North Korea tier share of GDP dedicated to “defense”.
It’d produce very little for that vast investment, except more butter for spivs & little guns for troops.
There’ll be no NATO-Russia war because the USA can’t fight that war conventionally. Talking about it’s weakling vassals doing so is a joke.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Jul 5 2024 19:34 utc | 103

All politicians are cut from the same block, you wouldn’t want them leading you but they are the only personality types that put themselves forward.
Posted by: marcjf | Jul 5 2024
You’re after nailing the problem.
Normal people with an interest in public service won’t get involved as a result.
Too many nutters!

Posted by: jpc | Jul 5 2024 19:36 utc | 104

Always appreciate your comments Mark2.
I ‘know’ what Starmer ‘is’ , have met similar people and know what they represent. Some re. Skripals, Iraq, Arctic even.
Giyane, no these people are not stupid like that, they get “what needs to be done”, done. They also tend to be highly intelligent and organised, and I suppose that might be some natural compensation for apparent lack of common sense. The differences found are more to do with their own orientation, where they hold allegiance or what they represent at a wider level. Though they talk the talk, at the same time they act as pivots – they don’t care if you disagree or label their presentation, because they know they still occupy a position of decision, and are untouchable for that. As someone commented above, it is not left or right, it is establishment direction. In spite of all the UK failure and poodle politics, the establishment is still independent, it does not take orders or emulate abroad. So Starmer will be mouthpiece for the establishment. The UK establishment is a lot of influences at once, but it has its own center (which is not the pm or parliament).
What does that mean ? I don’t know, British establishment policy has its own direction. However a parliamentary majority in the hands of a government of this nature, my impression is that it will be used to try to digest the differences of the country while altering various concepts. By next election UK will look quite different, and that is all part of turning over the country, which seems to me the idea.
So not a “lazy left” political direction but instead a fair degree of power play to come.
As mentioned above, the UK election system allows for a lot of ‘arrangement’.
Anyway, that is my impression of what is presented by this election, viewed from abroad and so less (i.e. not) caught up in any related emotion etc.

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 5 2024 19:42 utc | 105

“The deep state, with the help of the Israeli embassy, had launched a media campaign against Labour ” . It just proves how formidable Rothschilds grip on the UK is. Farage will be smeared with antisemitism very soon.

Posted by: Milos | Jul 5 2024 19:44 utc | 106

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 5 2024 17:56 utc | 75
I don’t need to, most of the people who take that particular political panacea end up doing that. I lived in the UK with nationalised industries, remember how long it took to get a phone line, or the state of BR? For your information there was rampant cost cutting and bribery going on in those glory days, especially in the beloved NHS and with the local council contracts (or the golden geese). Lifts out of order, months to fix broken windows etc. Stop painting state control in the UK as though it were some paradise, unless your Elysian Fields, were strewn with dogshit, litter and populated by s’not my job, shrug-shouldered lazy twats.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 19:48 utc | 107

Roth is German for Red and Child in English together is satanic meaning

Posted by: phenon | Jul 5 2024 19:49 utc | 108

Key things to note about this election: (1) a WEF toady (Sunak) was thrown out and another WEF toady put in his place – ‘Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.’ (2) At least 4 openly Islamist “independent” candidates won their ridings in ethnic enclaves, a key sign of things to come. (3) the vote split between Reform and the Conservatives is why Labour won (as it is a “first past the post system.”), not any mass endorsement of their ideas, but due to the system this does not translate into a proportional number of seats for Reform. (4) The odds of UK/NATO escalation in the Ukraine war just went up dramatically. (5) The U.K. (at least the original inhabitants of the Islands) are quite literally fucked. They will have a WEF globalist agenda rammed down their throats in a brutal fashion over the next 5 years. After those 5 years, the outcome of the next election won’t even matter.

Posted by: Moonraker | Jul 5 2024 19:55 utc | 109

Phil R @77
And yet your country is falling apart with a demented man at the head and another challenging him for the job. Surely, out of a population of 365 million somebody (just about anybody!) better could be found.

Posted by: Muph | Jul 5 2024 20:08 utc | 110

I believe this is the first time that the UK has elected a mentally deranged Israeli loyalist and Talmud worshipper to the post of Prime Minister. Congratulations to the Brits. I’m sure it will all work out well.

Posted by: Matthew | Jul 5 2024 20:08 utc | 111

Posted by: jpc | Jul 5 2024 19:36 utc | 104
Few people have the qualities required for that profession, a fact that requires self-elevation, self-deception and communal denigration to make more palatable.
Posted by: Ornot | Jul 5 2024 19:42 utc | 105
The UK system can renovate itself, if it chooses to assert the supremacy of parliament. Blair’s constitutional and administrative reforms have only lasted for so long, because it has been in the interests of all to keep them going. If Starmer pushes too far, too fast, he’ll risk the current status quo being reset back a half-century. Reform is the fox in the Westminster hen coup and they’ll only grow in there, especially feeding off Labour’s perceived ideological fixations.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 20:17 utc | 112

“I trust Putin more than Starmer.”
George Galloway

Posted by: El.Lissitzky | Jul 5 2024 20:20 utc | 113

What does this look like through Vladimire Putins eyes, thats what matters, if your a british voter you dont matter.
Karlofi1 recently delt with this, basicly Vladimiri Putin will judge Britain by its actions not its words I / we better beleave him.
Every day i thank Putin for the fact that i’m still alive.
Hat tip to karlof1

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 20:25 utc | 114

Yes Prime Minister: on the Arabs and Israel
https://youtu.be/IgLg9zQH3vU
There is another about the Israeli Ambassabour giving advice to the minister. Can’t find it now. Anyone?

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jul 5 2024 20:27 utc | 115

Day ja vou.
Same two party fake wrestling to fool the gulable public (read grunts) as in america right now.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 20:44 utc | 116

Rothschild means “red shield”. Trust me. I speak German.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jul 5 2024 20:52 utc | 117

https://youtu.be/1gjln4gaeeg?si=fUWaV1WBGVLI04EG
Yes prime minister meets the Israeli ambassador

Posted by: Hankster | Jul 5 2024 20:55 utc | 118

Rothchild is a close freand and busenss associate with rupert murdoch. They have joint shares in the oil/gas? Feilds off shore of Gaza.
Rupert Murdoch backed farage in a preveous election (brixit)
So farage is but two steps removed from the top man. Us and them ? I dont think so. give me Corbyn and Galloway any day.
Actions speak louder than words. Both posative and negative actions.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 21:02 utc | 119

I know some posters love getting in their, ‘it wasn’t real socialism/communism etc’ excuses to explain away the inevitable failure of their beloved doctrines whenever implemented, but doing so on the first day surely smacks of desperation.
Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 16:16 utc | 46
———————————————————-
What is “real” socialism/communism? Clearly you know nothing about the subject that wasn’t hand fed to you by the capitalist system, which has confirmed that international financial capitalism (i.e. imperialism) is the end of history.
You are like the slave who, after hearing that the Spartacus slave revolt had failed, decided that chattel slavery is the only economic and social system that humanity should expect for as long as humanity exists, i.e. slavery as the end of history

Posted by: Ed | Jul 5 2024 21:05 utc | 120

Always a pleasure to read you b. Please, don’t forget laziness is a must : “Das Recht auf Faulheit” von Lafargue (der Mischlingsschwager von Marx)
“Labour, under Keir Stamer, did not win the election.”b.
True, however the kingdom’s electoral system works in such a way that (usurped) Labour has won well because it now holds 412 seats
( 326 are necessary for a majority).
Capital (in its capital?) is far-sighted, hence the pre-emptive ousting of Corbyn and the inoculation of Stamer.
Best Regards.

Posted by: Tak-Tik | Jul 5 2024 21:16 utc | 122

Sorry to hear George Galloway did not win in Rochdale. He would have made a great MP and serve as a constant thorn in the side of Keir Starmer. George Gallaway still has his online show on MOATS and is a voice for millions throughout the world who see the rigged uni-party system for what it is in both the UK and the US.

Posted by: Enriquillo Bribiesca | Jul 5 2024 21:29 utc | 123

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 16:16 utc | 46
No mention of the many failures of capitalism. Same shit, different day.
Oh wait…what UW Dude said on Wednesday. Nevermind, I still agree with it.
Another day in front of 4 flatscreens and Bloomberg running fer ya.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 21:41 utc | 124

Keir Starmer is a deep state plant, who will back the establishment to the hilt. He is conniving and willing to lie but I doubt they will be worse than the Tories. They did not give a shit for the electorate at all, with crumbling schools and courthouses, a criminal justice and health service backlog of epic proportions they didn’t lift a finger. A housing crisis that drains the whole economy into property.
Labour couldn’t be worse if they tried. Though Labour follow the same Neo-liberal economics which will continue to weaken the economy and populace as the rich get richer. I give Labour 2 terms, things will be better after their first term, but they will run out of ideas quicker than Tony Blair.
The UK is blighted with a right wing media, so I expect in the medium term things will not get any better as we vote in something worse than Labour. Like Reform, Conservatives but racist and really stupid polices (and one or two good ones).

Posted by: Mighty Drunken | Jul 5 2024 21:56 utc | 125

Milos | Jul 5 2024 19:44 utc | 106
*** Farage will be smeared with antisemitism very soon.***
Unlikely since he’s pro-Israel. Maybe a mild token ‘attack’ just for the sake of appearances. His party are really there to block anything genuine appearing on “the right”, while the Greens fill that role on “the left”.
Note how nice the establishment mass-media are to both…
The political establishment would prefer to retain the (now largely fantasy) simplistic “left v right” illusion held by the public, since it served them so well for decades.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 21:58 utc | 126

Keir Starmer is a deep state plant, who will back the establishment to the hilt. He is conniving and willing to lie but I doubt they will be worse than the Tories. They did not give a shit for the electorate at all, with crumbling schools and courthouses, a criminal justice and health service backlog of epic proportions they didn’t lift a finger. A housing crisis that drains the whole economy into property.
Posted by: Mighty Drunken | Jul 5 2024 21:56 utc | 125
—————————————-
“Democracy is a form of the state, it represents, on the one hand, the organized, systematic use of force against persons; but, on the other hand, it signifies the formal recognition of equality of citizens, the equal right of all to determine the structure of, and to administer, the state…”
“Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich — that is the democracy of capitalist society…[t]he oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class shall represent and repress them in parliament.”
Lenin, State and Revolution (1917)

Posted by: Ed | Jul 5 2024 22:15 utc | 127

Posted by: Ed | Jul 5 2024 21:05 utc | 120
I’ve lived under Communism, but I guess, to a fervent acolyte, lived experiences are only superior to theoretical ones when they issue forth from the lips of the oppressed, not the oppressor. As I said before, childish bifurcations, combined with secular morality spliced with ideological purity, might appeal to some, but having worn the tee-shirt, so to speak, count me out of the attempt to bring a socialist heaven to earth.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 21:41 utc | 124
‘Same shit, different day’, a perfect description of living in the reality warping world of socialism, where its adherents are often encouraged to emulate the gods their ideology has rejected.
False equivalence, never said capitalism was perfect, it just tends to own up to its failures, not pretend they never happened or are lies spread by the evil ones. Socialism is a childish construct that ignores human nature, which is a blessing in disguise, as all that political capital gained by slow and steady indoctrination is wasted on the fruitless quest to, improve humanity.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 22:18 utc | 128

Milites | Jul 5 2024 17:08 utc | 63
Mate, I don’t often pay compliments, but your clarity and perception on so many topics never goes unnoticed (by me, anyway) despite it often being either ignored or attacked by childish imbeciles and political partisans. Thanks.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 5 2024 22:18 utc | 129

Moonraker | Jul 5 2024 19:55 utc | 109
*** The odds of UK/NATO escalation in the Ukraine war just went up dramatically. (5) The U.K. (at least the original inhabitants of the Islands) are quite literally fucked. They will have a WEF globalist agenda rammed down their throats in a brutal fashion over the next 5 years. After those 5 years, the outcome of the next election won’t even matter. ***
That’s pretty well it.
Greenie crap (petrol and diesel cars punished … electric grid collapses … unsuitable but imposed “insulation” wrecks homes … possibly food rationing or massive drop in quality) selective wokism and witch-hunts against all critics of the zionists and their activities.
Combined with an attempt at creating a “militaristic” society.
Likely with so-called “Freeports” and “15 minute city” inflictions as well. Plus large scale, crony profiteering, house construction — but not council or state owned — to almost keep pace with massive .. senseless .. immigration (hence no reduction of housing shortage at all).

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 22:19 utc | 130

I don’t see anyone talking about immigration. Either Labour sinks/tows the ships and dumps people in Rwanda – or they don’t. If they don’t, we’re back where we started, plus a sucky economy.
As for Reform and similar movements, why do people not have a right to preserve their culture? Why isn’t THAT held sacred? Why does a nation need to dilute its culture, perhaps down to little or nothing?

Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 5 2024 22:23 utc | 131

Seems similar to the last Australian election, a sitting conservative PM so on the nose the voters would take anyone if not him. Then roll up a Labor clown running on a green and transvestite platform, he also got about 34% of the vote but is now glorious leader charging to economic collapse.
His new conservative opponent, a bald pro US, pro Israel war monger with the personality of a dead fish. The fix is in, politicians with low IQ and almost no charisma on both sides, a revolving door of ineptitude and stupidity…but doing their masters will.

Posted by: Organic | Jul 5 2024 22:25 utc | 132

Phil R @77
And yet your country is falling apart with a demented man at the head and another challenging him for the job. Surely, out of a population of 365 million somebody (just about anybody!) better could be found.
Posted by: Muph | Jul 5 2024 20:08 utc | 110
Thanks for your reply. It’s always been my opinion that there are plenty of qualified people who could be good, competent presidents but they are too smart to run and don’t want to subject themselves to the politics of personal destruction that would ensue.

Posted by: Phil R | Jul 5 2024 22:25 utc | 133

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 22:18 utc | 128
Re: capitalism, fair enough. Out of curiosity, you said you’ve lived both under British (democratic) socialism AND communism? If so, it’d have to be in the period of both’s decline, is that correct?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 22:30 utc | 135

Ed | Jul 5 2024 22:15 utc | 127
*** “Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich — that is the democracy of capitalist society…[t]he oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class shall represent and repress them in parliament.”
Lenin, State and Revolution (1917) ***
He was indisputably correct about that.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 22:30 utc | 136

Socialism is a childish construct that ignores human nature, which is a blessing in disguise, as all that political capital gained by slow and steady indoctrination is wasted on the fruitless quest to, improve humanity.
Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 22:18 utc | 128
But…and I won’t continue to clog the thread with this ‘isms’ talk, you’re also making what could be construed as a false equivalence. First, though, it would be incredibly easy to point out that capitalism ignores human nature and a childish construct as well. Tho, anyway, the term “socialism” (and the many ways it can be implemented) like “capitalism” (though not AS many possible implementations) is a lot broader than you’re acknowledging there, and as a result you’re not going to get a lot of engagement from anyone who understands that when you make comments like that – some people call regulated or heavily regulated capitalism “socialism.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 22:33 utc | 137

Why does a nation need to dilute its culture, perhaps down to little or nothing?
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 5 2024 22:23 utc | 131
Get rich off your colonies.
Complain about the colonized living in your empire.
Get fat, weak and complacent while riding your palantir.
Get beat by your hungry, strong palantir bearers.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 22:33 utc | 138

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 22:18 utc | 128
Everything good is because of capitalism.
Everything bad from capitalism was because of the socialist aspects of that society, and wasn’t real capitalism.
Interchange your favorite and most hated isms at will, and you have 30% of all words written on political forums summed up.
It is trite and sophomoric.
World is a complicated place, folks.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 22:39 utc | 139

Get fat, weak and complacent while riding your palantir.
Get beat by your hungry, strong palantir bearers.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 22:33 utc | 138
Get fat, weak and complacent while riding your palanquin.
Get beat by your hungry, strong palanquin bearers.
Yes, makes more sense. XD

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 22:47 utc | 140

British election and democracy is big fraud.they criticise others as one party rule and dictatorship of those they do not like but what is British system, 2party rule with policy of no difference whosoever gets elected for last 45 years Britain is ruled by one party government of Tory hard or Tory soft.blair was and is a war criminal not a labour man.this scanner is Blair liar number two

Posted by: Sam | Jul 5 2024 23:05 utc | 141

Sometimes in the trash you find pearls, yes Daily mail is 90% trash but….
“Most of the advisers were as aghast as Tory MPs and ministers at Rishi Sunak’s decision to go for a July 4 election.
When he told the Cabinet at its 4pm meeting on May 22, it was already a fait accompli.
‘There was no point in arguing as he’d already told the King,’ said one minister who listened in disbelief as Sunak revealed his big idea.
‘If the deal hadn’t been done with the King there could have been a leadership contest. It’s why Sunak tied our hands.'”
That and feeling Reform was still not ready for elections.
Its venal enough to be the truth

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 5 2024 23:09 utc | 142

@Milites 112
Frankly I don’t have a clue what anyone expects from this government, people know it’s not the previous labour. I haven’t read the small print on what the election has been about, but nor did I see any sort of larger theme or idea stand out at all on anything.
So it comes across to me maybe like PSOE in Spain, no longer workers party but sat resolutely in charge by minority emanating some kind of modernist progessivity that swamps society for its lack of meaning. People acclimatise to that and it becomes structural in many ways, with people remaining as clueless as ever.
Similar in a different way in US.
Those are lawyers and LSE running the UK now, they are sure to know how to safeguard their presentation by talking in circles. I don’t expect they will be directly challenging anywhere much, but instead will change the floorplan, sort of excluding any opposition.

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 5 2024 23:15 utc | 143

Posted by: Organic | Jul 5 2024 22:25 utc | 132
Too true and nicely expressed! And it seems to be a global phenomena of policy sameness on both sides with only the haircut variations between leaders.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 5 2024 23:24 utc | 144

Seriously good news for Joe Biden … Britain’s fastest ever PM, the delightful Liz Truss, lost her (supposedly very safe, but she was talented enough to lose it anyway) seat, so now she is free to go to the USA and campaign for Donald Trump.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 23:30 utc | 145

This guy, Prof Dr Vladimir Brovkin, makes really succinct and accurate commentary vids on Ukraine and East European history. Probably nothing most of y’all havent heard or thought of before, but a great nutshell summary of unfolding events … without hate or hubris.
https://youtu.be/W4c_wiOAw2g

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Jul 5 2024 23:33 utc | 146

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 22:30 utc | 135
Yes, in a way. Communism was beginning to enter its sclerotic stage, where the Brezhnev Doctrine (both at home and abroad) barely concealed the seismic fissures that were increasingly appearing. My UK experience was similar, but not as drastic, as a decade of barely interrupted Labour rule, was equally beginning to reap what it had sowed.
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 5 2024 22:23 utc | 131
The inalienable right to preserve one’s culture is only to be afforded to immigrants from oppressed groups, and the native populations from whence they came.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 22:33 utc | 137
There are ‘letters’ from the city of Ugarit, inscribed over 6,000 years ago that speak of material acquisition and social status as prime motivators, few, if any, that call for equality and the universal redistribution of wealth, so no, I think capitalism’s appeal is because it aligns more closely with human nature. My take on the battle of the isms is simple, stop trying to fundamentally change mankind, but instead try to change its environment, the former wreaks of an attempt to be ersatz gods, the latter has a proven track record of improvement. I understand the spectrum for the implementation of socialism is far wider than my original post, but the kernel seems to be a highly regulated and prescriptive approach to living that does not appeal to me or countless millions.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 22:33 utc | 138
Never knew the UK historically exploited the Albanians or Rumanians.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 22:39 utc | 139
I see you’re a student of the Obama school of rhetoric: ‘win every argument by putting your own words into your opponent’s mouth.’
‘It is trite and sophomoric.
World is a complicated place, folks.’
Bit of Goebbelesque literary projection there, don’t you think?

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 23:44 utc | 147

Newbie | Jul 5 2024 23:09 utc | 142 (re Sunak and his July election date)…
*** ‘If the deal hadn’t been done with the King there could have been a leadership contest. It’s why Sunak tied our hands.'”
That and feeling Reform was still not ready for elections.***
A stupid decision as most Tory MPs and candidates were unprepared since they were pretty sure it would be held in November.
That said, Reform were not doing all that well according to surveys, till the well-known Farage stepped in and took over as leader.
And like him or not, he does have a big media personality — unlike the leaders of the three big Parties. Ideal for a short campaign.
But that is a contingency for which Sunak and his advisers ought to have planned.
Unless they were already instructed from the USA to lose.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 23:48 utc | 148

Bit of Goebbelesque literary projection there, don’t you think?
Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 23:44 utc | 147
No.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 6 2024 0:11 utc | 149

Never knew the UK historically exploited the Albanians or Rumanians.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 22:39 utc | 139
Pfft.. get real.
UK people bemoaning cultural degradation is rarely, if ever, about Albanians or Rumanians.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 6 2024 0:14 utc | 150

Fun fact :
Starmer became PM , and labour was awarded 411 out of 650 seats
By 21% of registered voters
So it follows the UK government represents one in five of all brits able to vote.
Figures have been somewhere similar for several elections around the world, particularly in europe. That is to say even the base concept of democracy is increasingly questionable as a reality, let alone the managed version.

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 6 2024 0:17 utc | 151

The Conservatives are their own worst enemies.
They allowed utility rates to triple even in the face of world wide surplus of natural gas, oil, coal and propane.
They allowed coal fired power plants to close even though they are totally reliable and low cost.
They sold out the fishing industry and fishing resources to the EU.
They slow walked reopening of the North Sea oil fields.
They wasted billions of pounds supporting the corrupt fascists in Kieve.
They allowed RN supply ships to be built in South Korea instead of Belfast.
They allowed banks to debank customers for their political views.
They failed to cease Orwellian suppression of the political thought police, and allowed the police state to imprison anti vax and religious descenters.
In short the Conservatives made a smashup of their fourteen years, but Starmer will do no better, if anything he will be more loyal to the WEC globalist alliance.
The real conservative voice in the UK is now the Reform Party and its members……….the Conservatives are done……

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Jul 6 2024 0:22 utc | 152

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 23:48 utc | 148
The moment the SNP’s leader Sturgeon was disposed, on corruption charges that had been known about for years, was one of the key indicator’s that the election had been gifted to Starmer. Similarly Sutek’s elevation to PM and his surprise election announcement were just the beginning and end point of a line of continuum of managed Tory decline. I guess July was picked so Labour have a chance to get their plans into action before Trumpzilla shits on their attempts to re-imagine Britain in the globalist mould.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 6 2024 0:35 utc | 153

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 21:41 utc | 124
—————————————–
Sure, sure Tom, but was he (Lenin) wrong, at least in this case?
And by the way, I suspect that I lived in a capitalist dictatorship longer than you lived in a working-class dictatorship. Neither one had to be what they were/or what they are, but no social/economic system is perfect or set in stone.
Capitalism, which is now about 500 years old, grew out of the shit that was feudalism: It emerged with fits and starts, only to become the world’s most exploitative economic system known to humanity. In spite of all of the shit that the minority capitalist class has heaped upon humanity, this capitalist shit is the soil that some form of socialist system must one day also grow out of, also with fits and starts and it has only been around as a serious modern idea for less than a couple of hundred years.
Capitalism is not the end of history.

Posted by: Ed | Jul 6 2024 0:37 utc | 154

As this is a political thread
Meanwhile in ´merica
“My take on 9/11: It’s hard to tell what is a conspiracy theory and what isn’t. But conspiracy theories flourish when the government routinely lies to the public.”
RFK

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 6 2024 0:41 utc | 155

Posted by: migueljose | Jul 5 2024 13:34 utc | 242
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg8_YXt580c <=best video this week. most of your links on Youtube have been blocked..from here. How does one join the five principals of peaceful coexistence based global alliance .. Posted by: malenkov | Jul 5 2024 18:15 utc | 274 1. Putin lacks the authority to compromise on Crimean sovereignty; and 2. Even if he had such authority, no amount of “dictator” powers could spare him from a tidal wave of outrage. <= I see in this situation the same as pre SMA invasion.. Putin is giving the Ukraine soon to be decimated by Russia one last chance.. to not only save Ukraine but also to become a partner with Russia instead of NATO in keeping with the five principals and the idea of neutralism. (The peace may happen but at the expense of the NAZI elements in Ukraine, who will be turned over to Russian authorities) and I think Putin is offering this at the expense of Russia.. with purpose to save the world from a nuclear WWIII. I suspect that Russia has obtained information of the diabolical plans proposed to be unleashed by the angry western war-solves-everything elite. If the world or Ukraine refuses to accept and abide by the terms offered I suggest it is time to watch out..just as it was before the SMO action took place.

Posted by: snake | Jul 6 2024 0:54 utc | 156

Corbyn’s mistake was not to stand down after the 2017 defeat which nearly got him elected PM. At that point, the left controlled the party’s structure, including the powerful National Executive Committee. Corbyn could have given his notice of standing down after that defeat, allowing the left to agree on a suitable replacement well before the leadership contest. The left would have won any election for the leadership at that time. The 2017 election was seen as a victory for the left, not a defeat. Corbyn came extremely close to PM, despite the media and establishment campaign against him.
Unfortunately, Corbyn decided to hang on until the next election in 2019, by which time the Zionist lobby had created their poison and began to accuse him of anti-Semitism. This galvanised the Mendelson right of the party, which now used every opportunity in the media to undermine Corbyn – of which there were many. Consequently, Corbyn lost the 2019 election with twelve per cent less support than his previous election two years prior.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 6 2024 1:08 utc | 157

@ Aslangeo | Jul 5 2024 16:19 utc | 48
good video.. thanks for sharing it..stamer as an intel asset working for a police state- this fellow makes it appear abundantly so..

Posted by: james | Jul 6 2024 1:40 utc | 158

I am dismayed George Galloway’s Workers Party did not make an impact.

Posted by: Suresh | Jul 6 2024 1:42 utc | 159

a very relevant post to this thread from a previous thread…
“Good stuff Walt and co – I didn’t stay up as the result was a foregone conclusion and the Fix Was In ages ago. The pantomime of Murdoch’s support via the Sun papers endorsement yesterday being just flim flam to impress the feeble minded.
What can I add for our worldwide audience to take away from this fixed election? I hope it helps b and others, sorry if it gets long.
Well the first international message that the Great Knight Dope was from the President f the illegal Apartheid Entity pretty much saying get your boots on the ground right away kiddo!
His Masters Voice
Next George Galloway, who I have plenty of ambivalence about , the cat in the hat hero who caused some waves with a miraculous win in a tribal voting town just some months ago – failed to retain that seat!
Now that is a lot of egg on the face of all those who though he was some great saviour and saint, as I warned against.
Third the actual saint and saviour of politics in Britain that held back this NuLabour Government being installed for 5 years – is of course JC, Jeremy Corbyn.
So let’s get to the relevant stats and some curiosities.
Starting with JC and his traitorous neighbour Starmer.
MP, Votes, % share, registered, turnout, turnout change

Corbyn 24,120 49.2% 72,582 68% -5.20%

Starmer 18,884 48.9% 71,300 54% – 5%
Corbyn got 25% more actual votes ~ 5k and a higher percentage share than Starmzy – who starts off his ‘landslide’ with that personal embarrassment.
Let’s rub some salt into that wounded Keir Starmer – the Great Knight Flop!
He enters Downing Street as a naked emperor in his supposed great majority cloth – He shouldn’t even have been leader – his constituents know better, well over half of them from 2017 certainly do!
2017 – 41,343, 70.1%

2019 – 36,641, 64.5%

2024 – 18,884, 48.9%
That is more people didn’t vote for him this time (22k) than had done for him in 2017 when he came as a wolf in sheep’s clothing to infiltrate the Corbynite Labour miracle. He has already lost his shine and not even his first day in Office!
To make it clear as to the absurdity of the media Narrative and propaganda about this so called ‘landslide’ – and the supposed failure of JC when he was leading the two previous general elections – here is a summary of total votes.
Lowest turnout since 2001 – 59%, before that it was only lower in 1918 !
Starmer’s party got 9.6million votes.

Corbyn’s Labour got 13million in 2017 and 10.2 million in 2019
Of all eligible voters, Starmer’s party only got 20%
Popular, he is not, landslide it is only by design.
The People are not represented.
It is a bogus claim of legitimacy.
It will lead to the final demise of the NHS and all public services that were set up by the post WW2 Labour government. That’s why a Labour government was required so that the blame would not reside with just the Tories .
We will also have escalation in the conflicts that we are already losing and a further isolation from the rest of the world as we retreat into the Golden Billion and Woke Guardians of the Universe superiority complex.
Starmer has already been getting reinvented with his snazzy new suits and spectacles costing £thousand’s, he will be ready for the US TV and world leadership role with his speech style and voice being coached – as Margaret Thatcher once was as she was renvented as the Iron Lady. Starmztrooper will be the IronLaddyBoy to suit the NewAge TransHuman folklore. His Hugo Boss militarychic outfits are probably being stitched as we speak!
So in summation – the real leader of the country, denied by two general election stitch ups with dodgy postal votes – Jeremy Corbyn has been re-elected even after he was throw out of the Party he has been in all his life and deselected from the seat he has served for 40 years by the usurper, snake in the grass, worm tongue , zionazi , US CIA flunky Herr Starmer.
As the senior parliamentarian and now an Independent he will be the centre of any real Opposition to the new government.
They needed that majority – becaus they know there are many ‘old Labour’ or Corbynite Labour MP’s who have been re-elected and will stand up against Starmer and the Crown Deep-states global war making plans and support of the illegal Zionist entity in its continued extermination of the Palestinians.
They will also stand up against further war in the MENA, Ukraine and planned wars elsewhere.
They will reject xenophobia against the Chinese, Russians and the rest of the world.
They will reject further Austerity and will be continued destruction of our public services.
This means that majority will soon become nullified and many will coalesce around JC whilst Starmer will have to rely on the remaing Tories LibDems, Greens and SNP to bolster his government as some coalition that is representative so that the country can go to war and start receiving bodybags.
All together now -sing it

Oh! Jeremy Corbyn
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 5 2024 11:57 utc | 211”

Posted by: james | Jul 6 2024 1:46 utc | 160

I am dismayed George Galloway’s Workers Party did not make an impact.
Posted by: Suresh | Jul 6 2024 1:42 utc | 159
They actually got significant votes in areas where they had better organisation.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 6 2024 1:47 utc | 161

it seems i can’t share @ 211 dungroanin’s post on the uk election from a previous thread.. it is quite a good and relevant quote that i recommend others read on the open ( neither ukraine or palestine ) thread..

Posted by: james | Jul 6 2024 1:48 utc | 162

Posted by: james | Jul 6 2024 1:48 utc | 161
I agree,james. Told him so before I read your recommend. Very helpful post.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 6 2024 2:29 utc | 163

The UK is not on a good path, as is my own country. Those that voted have only moved from Labour Lite to Labour, so I don’t expect there will be major change. Given Labour’s history they will just keep digging the hole they are in ever deeper. The Tories have made a good start of stuffing things up , so they have plenty to work with.

Posted by: yarpos | Jul 6 2024 2:31 utc | 164

How much deeper would the UK be in recession had it not been selling loads of weaponry (and “services”) to Ukraine?

Posted by: Minaa | Jul 6 2024 2:31 utc | 165

@UWDude
“UK people bemoaning cultural degradation is rarely, if ever, about Albanians or Rumanians”
In Spain UK people do (quietly), outnumbered 2 to 1 by Romanians there and notice related crimes. However the Spanish sometimes see the British as culturaly degrading also .
Funny, looking over labour immigration pledges they seem tougher than tory. I thought immigrant vote would be labour but maybe this time not. Irony being (if reports accurate) many naturalised foreign born (population @ 5 million) are for stricter immigration control, so who knows.

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 6 2024 2:54 utc | 166

This is for Gaza’ – UK’s Labour Party Loses 5 Seats to Anti-Genocide Independent Candidates
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/this-is-for-gaza-uks-labour-party-loses-5-seats-to-pro-palestine-independent-candidates/

Posted by: Exild | Jul 6 2024 3:07 utc | 167

Mikites 107
I’m not a Socialist. I’m a Muslim.
They are both selected for eradication by the old Cleptocracy and the new one. BTW there is also vast corruption in the top of both of their Perfidious and MIC systems, so slagging off workers to relieve your frustration at the system is understandable. British workers are treated as scum and occasionally behave in the way their superiors treat them . Nothing has changed by privatisation.
Anyway we’re here on this ethereal platform hosted by an octogenarian of iron will and determination and we’ll soon be discussing the defeat of Israel in Lebanon , where as always I look forward to readibg your superior knowledge and wisdom on military matters. See you again soon.

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 6 2024 3:15 utc | 168

Labour has been elected to parliament with the lowest voter participation since 1922, but they also have one of the largest political majorities in English history. The global elitists in charge arent going to give in a single fart about how “thin” Labour’s political position is. All they will see is a large majority that can ram all the most unpopular government policies down the throats of the British electorate. cuts to the national health service – done, cuts to social services – done, cuts to pensions – done, reintegration into the EU market – done, mass immigration – done.
These policies will of course destroy the labour party’s support and in 5 years when whoever is in charge of the Labour party is forced to hold another election, we’ll see the Labour party drop down to 160-ish seats. But so what, the Neo-liberal elites will have gotten their policies brought in and then they will just switch over to their Tory lackies for another 5-10yr term. Nothing for them will change, the average person will just get poorer but that’s how things have always been. Things must get much, much worse before there is even the possibility of the chance to get better at some point in the future (say 20 years from now).

Posted by: Kadath | Jul 6 2024 3:39 utc | 169

Nigel Farage Is the best organizer the Liberal Democrats ever had.

Posted by: Blackeysbart | Jul 6 2024 3:40 utc | 170

The UK election should be of interest because it has so much in common with Ukraine 2014. Think of Corbyn as someone like Yanukovich, popular but a bit of a fence-sitter on key issues. For Yanukovich, it was how to be pro-Russian while being EU-aligned. The Banderite faction had the support of NATO and State Department creeps like Nuland so they staged their own version of Brexit (Ruxit?) using dirty tricks and violence to achieve power with media star Zelensky, much as the UK establishment used “Boris” Johnson, Brexit dirty tricks, the profoundly right wing Labour PLP and an endless barrage of anti-semite smears to eject Corbyn. The result is that both countries are now sworn to permanent US vassalage with no real sovereignty, both are profoundly Russophobic, both de-industrialised and economically ruined, neither able to mount any serious military contest with Russia.
The Starmer government is a good indicator of what will happen when/if Zelensky holds elections, i.e. probably a Starmer-like neocon and fascist like Budanov will win. In neither country does government represent the people, both Zelensky and Starmer being remarkably unpopular. The recent UK election was, as B said, not about Labour winning but about Tories losing as the public fled in all directions. Labour’s vote share dropped, but thanks to exceptionally low turnout and Farage’s RefUK splitting the Tory vote, still managed to win an inordinate number of seats.
Labour now governs with a massive and totally unrepresentative majority, a PM notable mainly for his inability to keep a “pledge” for more than a few weeks, his active support for Zionists and NATO at all costs (especially to taxpayers) and a commitment to austerity and privatisation. Things will be tougher than ever since anti-Keynsian policies can’t create growth, either in UK or recessionary EU generally.
But this was never The Election. A real change in UK politics won’t happen until 2029, even if a genuine Opposition comes into being based on the success of the new parties and independents. I agree with Kadath | Jul 6 2024 3:39 utc | 168 on that one.
As a footnote, Greens did well, taking four seats and building vote share. But I doubt they can become the crystallization point for political change because they don’t have a dogwhistle loud enough to push through the media sound barrier. Farage’s dog whistle (‘them furrins’) is much louder clickbait in the BBC ear than Green’s ominous but abstract warnings about environmental disaster sometime, hence his almost constant TV presence while Greens were roundly ignored (and still are, despite having the same number of seats).

Posted by: TPaine | Jul 6 2024 3:42 utc | 171

If you observe the nature, character and mood of crowds and ignore the polls, (which were not much off this election, but often are) you would not have been surprised by the victory of Jeremy Corban, always underrated as a campaigner, but surprised by the loss of George Galloway, who appeared to get Gaza right, and the mood right and lost anyway. It happens. The second surprise (To me) was Iqbal Mohamed who won as an independent in Dewsbury. It is damn hard to get elected as an independent in FPP elections, and normally requires special circumstances, which I do not see in his case. He has a ferocious beard and I know very little else about him, but he may be worth watching. Some people find politics easy.

Posted by: Blackeyebart | Jul 6 2024 4:08 utc | 172

Labour, under Keir Stamer, did not win the election. It received fewer votes than it had received under Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 and 2019.
What is “Western democracy”?
Last fall. In the Netherlands, the right-wing Freedom Party won the election with 23.5%. The right-wing coalition was already ready. But almost a year of red tape… and now it was decided to form the government from “non-partisan experts”. Ironically, most of these “experts”, in one way or another, were close to the outgoing Prime Minister Rutte, whose party took only the 3rd place.
Earlier this week, we analyzed the meaning of the two-round system of elections in France. The point is to measure the mood and, if anything, after the start of the elections, by creating a party alliance, to prevent the most popular political force in the country from coming to power.
But a single-tier majority system with districts with a highly differentiated number of voters also produces interesting results.
Yesterday, Labour took 65% of the seats in parliament, receiving only 34% of the vote. The British Reform party won 4 million (13%) votes and 4 seats in parliament. At the same time, the Liberal Party won 3.4 million (11%) votes and 69 seats.
How? But that’s how it is. British traditions are like this.
By the way, ahead of us is the main pre-election show of the season – the US presidential election:
— There is no single list of voters in the United States.
— In most states, it is not necessary to present an identity document to receive a ballot;
– There are no international observers;
– The crooked system of two-level voting has already led to the fact that the president who received fewer votes than his opponent won five times.
Welcome to the party “Democracy, once again Democracy, nothing but Democracy”.

https://everlasting-cat.livejournal.com/417886.html

Posted by: Moscow Exile | Jul 6 2024 4:59 utc | 173

Election U.K. 2024: what was your vote worth?
How many votes to get 1 seat:
Labour, 23,500
Sinn Fein, 28,500
Democratic Unionist Party, 34,200
Social Democratic Labour Party, 42,700
Plaid Cymru, 48,700
Liberal Democrat, 49,100
Conservative, 55,800
Scottish Nationalist Party, 76,200
Ulster Unionist Party, 85,488
Independent and others, 103,000
Alliance, 113,984
Greens, 483,000
Reform UK (Nigel Farage), 815,000
Workers Party of Britain (George Galloway), infinity

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Jul 6 2024 5:57 utc | 174

Here in Britain we see the genicide of Palistinians played out on mainstream media and social media on a daily or weekly basis, including the suffering of perfectly inocent children … by the million.
Thats why as b puts it “Labour did’nt win the torys lost” media normalised that carnage by their narative bias toward israel some times blatent some times subliminal, israelie hostages virsis palastinian prisoners, or people defending them selves versis terrorists.
, the numbers told the lie. Thats the reality of why the torys lost, that and knowing both tory and labour party had removed any opersition to vote for other than Galloway who’s son got beaten up while canvassing days before the election.
The people in control of labour are being controlled by israel and jewish lobby groups.
Then you have Labour members who pay to be a member of the labour party they get to vote on internal running of the party such as whos going to be the leader of the party, or excutive.
That right there is how to stop starmer, stop the jewish strangle hold on labour and stop the genicide in gaza.
Labour party members you got your party into this mass murder mess. Blood is on your hands almost literaly.
You voted starmer not Corbyn as members.
Starmer needs to go now as in days not months .
Every hour more inocent children die.
Loud protest and physical actavism is needed within the party and on the media.
The leader should represent the party members, not israel paying bribes.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6 2024 6:09 utc | 175

To add to my above….
On Monday im going to re join the local labour party. In support of the inocent peaple of gaza. I recomend others do as well, a lot of others. Take back our party. From within.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6 2024 6:22 utc | 176

“We will see how it turns out. Germany had a good time with and after not so left SPD Chancler Schröder.”
We must ignore the dismantling of the welfare state and Germany’s participation in wars of aggression that violate international law. We must also forget about the liberalization of the financial market, which contributed to the financial crisis.
He did not take part in the invasion of Iraq and tried to maintain a good relationship with Russia. That’s the positive thing I can say about Schröder.

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 6 2024 6:30 utc | 177

The suborning of the centre-left has been a feature of the Anglosphere. In Australia the Australian Labor (sic) Party is a tory party in all but name that has been terrified of the USA’s wishes since the US ousted Whitlam in 1975 and ousted Rudd in 2010 for just *looking* too pro-Chinese. Now they are what they old right wing party used to be. And as when Clinton did that to the USA Democrats the ALP has driven the formerly right wing LNP to the right-far right and the Overton Window has galloped rightwards. There are of course other factors but these are the main one.
You see this right across the English-speaking world. Canada and New Zealand, especially post-Ahern New Zealand, are the same.
Corbyn was knifed in the most anti-democratic slandering I’ve ever seen and regardless of what you think of his politics you should be worried when the business-state wields that sort of public manipulation so freely, this sort of thing becomes a habit.

Posted by: James Lawrie | Jul 6 2024 6:43 utc | 178

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghr2M8mh8MA

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 6 2024 6:45 utc | 179

Churchill asked Ghandi his opinion on british democracy….
Ghandi replied.. i think it would be a good thing.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6 2024 6:51 utc | 180

Two points. First is trivial: “fewer votes”, not “less votes”. From Gramarly “It involves deducing whether fewer or less will be working with a countable or uncountable noun in your intended sentence.” You can count votes (except when using a voting machine), so the correct term is “fewer votes” except when talking about the USA. Just channelling my inner pedant.
Secondly, westen governments have lost (or more accurately torn up, trampled upon and thrown away) the Mandate of Heaven. At some point they will reap the whirlwind.

Posted by: Occasional poster | Jul 6 2024 7:06 utc | 181

James Lawrie
“the US ousted Whitlam in 1975 and ousted Rudd in 2010 for just *looking* too pro-Chinese.”
Yes Steve Rudd could speak Chinese.
To a U.S. administration unable to see a Chinese (or Russian etc.) person without experiencing an involuntary gas chamber fantasy, this was beyond the pale, of course. Rudd was lucky to escape with his life.

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Jul 6 2024 7:10 utc | 182

It’s amazing how clearly he lays it out – David Graeber 2020
The fake left right and centre – Obama Macron Boris Johnson GW Bush bureaucratic market centrism to faux fascists the extreme center immoderate moderates visionary with no vision performative symbols where everyone believes they are morally superior
People will be stupid in 3 mins.
https://nitter.poast.org/OfSymbols/status/1809229978501849554#m

Posted by: Nimbin | Jul 6 2024 8:13 utc | 183

B’s statement “Starmer will hurt the British public more than the Tory did under Sunak” IMO is 100% correct, and, I think, the bottom line of his government.
Hidden behind a label that gives the impression of being somewhat leftist he will pursue a most repressive conservative & authoritarian policy informed by the CIA et al.
Leftists have always discussed whether it’s “best” to be ruled by an honest conservative government or a lying and disingenuous, falsely labelled labour government. I think the answer is obvious. Starmer’s government is even worse, unfathomably, than any Tory rule.

Posted by: Avtonom | Jul 6 2024 8:29 utc | 184

How much deeper would the UK be in recession had it not been selling loads of weaponry (and “services”) to Ukraine?
Posted by: Minaa | Jul 6 2024 2:31 utc | 164
Do you think Ukraine actually pays for those weapons? Ukraine is entirely unable to pay. They’re either gifts or unpaid for purchases.

Posted by: laguerre | Jul 6 2024 8:34 utc | 185

Isnt the art of cooking the books supposed to make lines even for things that are still to be paid?

Posted by: Minaa | Jul 6 2024 8:50 utc | 186

France votes Sunday, a choice between Le Pen or chaos
Posted by: ChatNPC | Jul 5 2024 16:33 utc | 53

That’s not the truth : Le Pen/Bardella as much as Macron ARE chaos. The NFP is widely dominated by LFI (aka Mélenchon, the French Corbyn) which is against an involvement in Ukraine, anti-NATO, and favours peace talk and partnership with Russia. Anything else that’s been spread about them is mainstream media lies. Mélenchon and his political group have got the same treatment as Corbyn : an incessant 24/24 slander about their so-called anti-semitism because of their resolute support for Palestinians and criticism against Israel’s genocidal war.
Nowhere else in Europe you will find mainstream media that are unanimously supporting zionism as much as in France. But France is the birthplace of antisemitism. French MSM all belong to tycoons whose masters sit in Washington. The NFP/LFI is their real enemy now and should be destroyed. That was the real reason behind Macron’s move : to be the only solution against fascism since he didn’t expect the Left (LFI/PS/EELV/PC/NPA) to find an agreement to be unified again. Though it’s a fragile and wobbling alliance, it resists to multiple attacks from all sides. Yes, Mélenchon is the bogeyman, the one to bring down, as Corbyn was in his time. Because they both threaten the interests of the bourgeoisie. The only difference between Corbyn and Mélenchon is their resistance capacities : Mélenchon is a fighter.
Bardella and Le Pen whose faces are on all posters of their legislative campaign, replacing the real personas of their local candidates hence making them look like ghosts (some of them really are) are the spare wheel of the bourgeoisie. The MSM are mostly behind them, though hesitating between a support for Macron and the far right. Anyway, it’s the same. But behind them hide dozens of candidates that reveal not only their true deeply rooted racism and antisemitism, their nostalgia about the nazi-friendly origins of the party but also their crass incompetence. Some of them are even convicted criminals and fraudsters, even with a history in mental hospitals.
Bardella and Le Pen (and a few of their lieutenants) are in fact the acceptable window display of a full psychiatric ward.
Have you heard of Vincent Bolloré ? Bolloré is an industrial tycoon who bought year after year a bunch of national media and press. He always was firmly in favour of the unification between the right and the far right and he’s behind the integration of Ciotti’s right into the RN which partly explains the high scores of the far right in France. The other explanation is obvious : a full and constant media support for their ideas. The rest of the media just follow the trend because they’re just lost dogs looking for a new master.
Bolloré is a quintessential imperialist and loots Africa’s resources for years.
Now just connect the dots : immigration is Le Pen’s stock in trade. Stop immigration and the RN disappears. And what is the main reason that pushes people from Africa to migrate to the North ? So cui bono ? If a good third of French working class was not so ignorant and brainwashed by the media, the far right will be the last to vote for to reduce immigration and improve social and workers conditions in France.
Monday in France under the far right will be chaos.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 6 2024 8:54 utc | 187

laguerre
They are paid for by the UK taxpayers.

Posted by: Glasshopper | Jul 6 2024 8:57 utc | 188

Isnt the art of cooking the books supposed to make lines even for things that are still to be paid?
Posted by: Minaa | Jul 6 2024 8:50 utc | 185
I entirely agree UK cooks the books a lot. I just read an article in the Independent claiming that UK is set for success under Labour because it has recovered from the COVID crisis more strongly than the EU countries! link. Pretty astounding self-congratulation. It doesn’t look like that on the ground.

Posted by: laguerre | Jul 6 2024 9:06 utc | 189

Monday in France under the far right will be chaos.
Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 6 2024 8:54 utc | 186
I’m very reluctant to predict what’s going to happen in the French election tomorrow. Everybody here, like the international media, is looking forward to catastrophe in France, in complete ignorance of the way the French system works. De Gaulle designed the two-round voting system deliberately. As he said, I think, though I don’t have the quote, in the first round the French vote with their hearts, in the second round they vote with their heads. We will see.

Posted by: laguerre | Jul 6 2024 9:14 utc | 190

Supremely depressing

Posted by: Gerry Bell | Jul 6 2024 9:15 utc | 191

You are absolutely right in saying Starmer was put into position by the UK Establishment

Posted by: Ruth | Jul 6 2024 9:19 utc | 192

@Milites: I normally find your comments interesting but I must disagree with your view of past UK. (I am a boomer UK citizen).
* The NHS functioned and by some metrics was the best health system in the world.
*Jobs were available, and one wage earner could buy a property on normal salary
*There was no sewage in our water
*You could study for a degree for free with a living grant and come out with no debt (I did).
*Various important industries were nationalised so were under the control of the state, not corporate profiteers.
* Public transport was better and cheaper. Now the railways and many bus companies are owned by nationalised services from other countries!!!
Who owns UK railways
*Local govermnent had decent funding and could take action
*Council (public) Housing available
*Lower crime and few homeless
*Social Security safety net for poor and disabled people
*Midlands/North of England not starved of funds and wasting away
I’m not saying that UK from 1960s-2000ish was perfect. There were many flaws and Thatcher kickstarted the neoliberal downslide, which was carried on by the Blair Labour government from 1997, which nevertheless had many good policies, along with ghastly ones like PFI (Public/private ripoff financing) and of course the Iraq war.

Posted by: JulianJ | Jul 6 2024 9:26 utc | 193

I fear we won’t be getting rid of Starmer any time soon. The situation now is just as it was in the early 1980s when four senior Labour figures left to form the SDP, so splitting the centre left vote. In 1983, Thatcher’s biggest landslide victory, the combined centre left won more of the popular vote than the Conservatives, but in the UK’s first past the post system their split vote meant that the Tories won in many more constituencies. Now the right has split between the Conservatives and Farage’s Reform party, and we’re seeing the same effect. After 1983 the Tories went on to win two more elections, and unless Reform and the Conservative Party merge – which they might – it will be some time before Labour are defeated again, even though they won less of the popular vote in this election than the right wing parties.
Our best hope of getting rid of Starmer is in his own constituency, where his vote share on Thursday was cut deeply by arms trade expert and former ANC MP Andrew Feinstein. Perhaps in the next election Feinstein will be able to turf him out. Feinstein had my vote this time round, and he’ll have it again.

Posted by: ruskin | Jul 6 2024 9:44 utc | 194

I’m very reluctant to predict what’s going to happen in the French election tomorrow.
Posted by: laguerre | Jul 6 2024 9:14 utc | 189

And you’re absolutely right not to. But anyone can safely predict what’s going to happen if the far right wins.
They’re trying hard to hide their white supremacism but already announced racial laws. It will be aligned with Macron’s policies with more social brutality and police impunity. The hardest part to predict is how much more freely racism will be expressed and fascist groupuscules will spread their order onto the streets.
As for Ukraine, behind their friendly support for Putin (more than for Russia per se in fact) based on their common ground for nationalism, sovereignty and bigotry, they will fall in with the line drew by EU, as did Meloni in Italy.
Mélenchon, on the contrary, though he has always been a (healthy) critic of Putin’s views and decisions, keeps in mind the interest of the world peace including the right of the Russian people to live in a safe neighbourhood. In frond of the media world which is eagerly awaiting for him to make a mistake, he has to maintain a seemingly hard criticism of the war in Ukraine but deeply, he’s in favour of peace and for him, war with Russia was always a very dangerous thing that France is not and will never be ready for.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 6 2024 10:26 utc | 195

Get fat, weak and complacent while riding your palantir.
Get beat by your hungry, strong palantir bearers. 138
get educated by looking up palanquin in a dictionary

Posted by: rebelbhoy | Jul 6 2024 11:05 utc | 196

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 17:08 utc | 63
You asked I answer: Aren’t we all the working class? Who here owns the means of production? Or a bank? Or an army?
Corbyn didn’t lose the working class. He was undermined by his own anti labour Labour Party and the Blairites. The wonderful magnificent Tony Blair himself said he would rather a Conservative Government than a left wing Labour one. So there you go. I saw Corbyn as the UK’s last chance to get a few things right. There was a little flaring of hope there briefly.

Posted by: Inki | Jul 6 2024 11:27 utc | 197

193 – Farage in his victory speech said that next time he would be coming after Labour. Which could be a hint that he would seek to merge with the Tories, or even attempt to take them over. The economy is not great and Starmer is a colourless stuffed shirt who certainly did not win out of charismatic authority. The Labour landslide of 1945, fuelled by greater enthusiasm than any we saw two days ago, took two elections to wipe out, but the Tories nearly won the 1950 election and actually won the 1951 election, ironically in an election in which Labour won more votes than before or since – many Labour votes were wasted piling up huge majorities in safe seats – the slightly smaller Tory vote was better distributed. Few Liberals or third party candidates stood in 1951.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jul 6 2024 11:29 utc | 198

Posted by: JulianJ | Jul 6 2024 9:26 utc | 192
All true, but none of those were really the result of socialism, they were the vestiges of a society that all Britons had fought for and built, over the centuries. The institutions that so many people relied on were staffed by a dying breed, with a social morality and an understated, but fierce, patriotism that was striking to an immigrant. My memories of public transport are somewhat different to yours, filthy, late, and staffed by those who excelled in shirking responsibility, but agree that wholesale privatisation was not the answer.
As for other nationalisations the NHS was an institution that was bound to eventually collapse, as the BMA predicted during its inception, also partly due to its inability to keep up funding for medical advances and the impact of removing personal responsibility for the health of the population. Then again a health system that employs a majority of its staff who have no clinical qualifications is farcical and absurd, or that relies on agency workers at higher than the going rate, due to problems with funding and recruitment is head-shakingly sad.
I lived in the NE and saw first hand what the combination of the cushion of nationalisation and politically powerful unions had done to British shipyards and the steel industry, both of which were put out of their misery by Thatcher, but in an overly brutal manner and with no real post strategy.
I think that the UK started to deflect from what had been a unique trajectory when it politically embraced ‘isms’, especially the Tory party, which lost its ability to be both the traditional institutional steward and regulator. Sad really, this country is now just a pale shadow of its former-self, still the rise of Reform and the astute reaction of the population to the GE (give Labour a broad, but shallow mandate) suggests the old girl still has a fighting chance. Many posters don’t understand the FPTP system and the results it generates, wanting actuarial accuracy in determining the percentage of representation, not a subtle reflection of the mood of the electorate, which it does. PR sounds an attractive solution but often rewards minority parties with the political power that eluded them in the election.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 6 2024 11:49 utc | 199

Nigel’s best line so far was to describe Starmer as “Blair without the flair”…..perfect……….
Starmer is a stooge for the EU/WEF/WEC/NATO alliance with a green socialist insane economic philosophy thrown in there for good measure……..expect massive utility rate increases (they have already tripled in three year under the Conservative donkeys), rolling power blackouts due the coal power station shutdowns, massive gas and diesel price increase even though the world is awash in supply, higher taxes on the middle class, more Orwellian censorship and repression of the political and religious opposition (Starmer is an atheist) and more billions of pounds to support the Nazi scammers in Kieve………this will not end well for the UK……..
V for Vengance in reality…..

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Jul 6 2024 11:53 utc | 200