Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 05, 2024

Election In Britain

The Tories have lost the election in Britain.

Labour, under Keir Stamer, did not win the election. It received less votes than it had received under Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 and 2019.


The turnout was low. The overwhelming voter sentiment was 'anything but Tory'. There was no enthusiasms for Labour and Stamer's program.

Labour, under Corbyn, had been a real worker party with socialist tendencies.

The deep state, with the help of the Israeli embassy, had launched a media campaign against Labour alleging that it was hiding anti-semitic tendencies. Corbyn made the huge mistake of not fighting back against it. In the end he was kicked out despite Labour's healthy election results.

Jeremy Corby, no longer in Labour, has been reelected. So have been five MPs who campaigned on a pro-Gaza position.

Stamer is a controversial figure. He seems to have been placed in his position by the deep state. His previous position was the Chief of the Crown Prosecution Service. He had a major role in indicting and incarcerating Julian Assange. 

After being installed he has moved Labour to the right. It is now occupying a pro-capitalism center-right position:

“What Keir has done is taken all the left out of the Labour Party,” billionaire businessman John Caudwell, previously a big Tory donor, told the BBC. “He’s come out with a brilliant set of values and principles and ways of growing Britain in complete alignment with my views as a commercial capitalist.”

The Labour Party highlighted his endorsement.

Stamer will hurt the British public more than the Tory did under Sunak.

There will soon be an uproar against him.

I do note expect him to survive for long.

Posted by b on July 5, 2024 at 13:16 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Well said b. Starmer won't last long. As the genocide in Gaza is defeated, so will the campaign against socialism in the UK.

Posted by: merkin scot | Jul 5 2024 13:23 utc | 1

Tory scum out, Tory scum in. Liarbour is back to being a racist, fascist, antisemite partei. I doubt that what's left of the NHS will last much longer.

Posted by: Squeeth | Jul 5 2024 13:24 utc | 2

We will see how it turns out. Germany had a good time with and after not so left SPD Chancler Schröder.

Posted by: Johann von Oberndorf | Jul 5 2024 13:25 utc | 3

He has a huge majority in parliament. He has the support of the zionist and the media class. He will serve the full term.

Posted by: A.z | Jul 5 2024 13:25 utc | 4

b or anyone in the UK, an I missing the joke on "Stamer" vs. "Starmer"?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 5 2024 13:26 utc | 5

'It received less votes than it had received under Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 and 2019.'
That is tragic(or comedy gold if I can manage), and will not be reported other than here. Thanks.

Posted by: horatio | Jul 5 2024 13:28 utc | 6

Nigel Farage. Up and coming.

Posted by: Passerby | Jul 5 2024 13:35 utc | 7

The right wing vote was split by Farage’s (Mr Brexit) Reform party which is essentially an anti immigration party to the right of the Tories. That enabled a labour landslide on a share of the vote no better than under Corbyn. Starmer should thank Farage. He probably will privately in the lodge.

Posted by: Harlequin | Jul 5 2024 13:40 utc | 8

The only time in the past hundred years when turnout was that low was when Tony Blair was re-elected in 2001. That shows how unenthusiastic the Brits are about right-wing Labour party governments.

Posted by: Brendan | Jul 5 2024 13:49 utc | 9

Sir Kneel, as we call him was, apart from Assange, also instrumental in not prosecuting Jimmy Saville the pedo.

Sir Kneel is funded by the Zionist lobby big time.

Cudos B for having your finger on the pulse

Posted by: Butties | Jul 5 2024 13:50 utc | 10

The concerted attack, and smear campaign against Corbyn (a real socialist politician) was one of the biggest I've ever witnessed. Corbyn won last night as a independent he defeated the Labour candidate by a whopping 7,000+ votes.

Labour are no different from the Tories, the only difference is the colour of their rosettes. In Scotland, (which is in an illegal union with England) Scots voted against the Scottish National Party because they sold Scotland out by kicking independence into the long grass in favour of the status quo, Scottish elections are held in 2026.

Like Sunak, Starmer, who incidentally is a millionaire knight of the realm and has major business interests in Israel, (Pro-Zionsts have donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to the Labour party recently) Starmer openly called for water and power to be cut-off in Gaza.

The face may have changed in who leads at Westminster but behind the scenes the English empirical machine trudges on and doesn't skip a beat.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 5 2024 13:51 utc | 11

Theresa May's campaign slogan 'Strong and 'Stable'

Manchester Arena false flag bombing happens same day as Corbyn's labour launches manifesto (next day's newspaper headlines are about terrorist attack and the manifesto gets buried)

Trump administration releases name of Manchester Arena suspect by mistake

Suspect's father (a militia leader) in Libya taken by rival militia whilst giving an interview denying his son's involvement

Libyans living in Grenfell tower.

Libyan assets threatening to expose everything after Manchester Arena suspect's name comes in media. Grenfell tower burnt to ground to destroy safe house and the evidence. Residents told to stay inside. fire fighters having symptoms of cancer.

Farage told to sit his Ukip down so as not to split tory vote.

Great wall of Surrey...

Evil beyond comprehension...

There's a reason for the second coming of Christ. Bible says he will come in the night as a thief. Don't fall for the lies as he will be portrayed a terrorist.

Keep your ears open
Damascus 2040s

Posted by: Day kNight | Jul 5 2024 13:59 utc | 12

I await the inevitable entertaining missive from DunGroanin on this subject.

Posted by: KMRIA | Jul 5 2024 13:59 utc | 13

Yes. I liked Corbyn, but I am wary about Starmer.

From my point of view, this guy's background seems very suspicious.
What is particularly unforgivable is the witch-hunt-like oppression of the Labour left.
And the reason he used against Corbyn and others at this time was the label 'anti-Semitism'.

Many of the people on the Labour left are the sort of people who have spent most of their lives fighting racism.
To label these people as 'anti-Semitic' seems to me to be a black joke,
I was even more astonished to see that such an approach actually works.

Posted by: Nokaz | Jul 5 2024 14:00 utc | 14

"Manchester Arena false flag bombing happens same day as Corbyn's labour launches manifesto (next day's newspaper headlines are about terrorist attack and the manifesto gets buried)"

Day kNight (12).

Salman Abedi the Manchester Arena patsy, was well known to the English security services, he was recruited by the English to fight against Gaddafi in Libya.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 5 2024 14:04 utc | 15

The MIMAC Military Industrial Media Academic Complex) basically the deep state not only won this election and it will use this win to capture and use its newly gained political leverage to develop factories, machinery and technology to be used to fight Russia and China and the growing Resistance against Israel and its attempt to claim the right monopolize all of the components of the world will continue to rise. The world is going to become much more bloody in the coming few years.

We are witnessing the use of the nation state system to force humanity, by and thru governing systems, to conduct a civil war against itself. The MIMAC will try to use its might to destroy all economic, political and cultural competition challenging western privately-owned monopoly powers..and this destructive mindset will prevail where ever competition arises. That portion of humanity that refuses to be governed by such destructive minds will become the human rights resistance which we see rising within each of the nation states.

Gee B, I wish I could say you are wrong.. but I agree "Starmer is a controversial figure. He .. [has been promoted] the deep state. His previous position was the Chief of the Crown Prosecution Service. He had a major role in indicting and incarcerating Julian Assange. "

Posted by: snake | Jul 5 2024 14:04 utc | 16

Posted by: KMRIA | Jul 5 2024 13:59 utc | 13

My bad, he already weighed in on the open thread. Very informative.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 5 2024 11:57 utc | 211

Posted by: KMRIA | Jul 5 2024 14:07 utc | 17

George Gallaway lost

Posted by: jo6pac | Jul 5 2024 14:10 utc | 18

I think it’s difficult to get rid of a sitting Labour PM.

I don’t think it’s been done often.

Posted by: PalmaSailor | Jul 5 2024 14:20 utc | 19

In the UK. Starmer having won immediately robot-droned on about increasing so-called "defence". The seat-losing Shapps went on about "defence" and protecting (what?) alleged democracy in Ukraine. Considerably defeated -- but retaining his own seat -- Sunak also drivelled about spending more on "defence".
Clear what their multi-labels priority is ... inflicting a big and everlasting war that's of zero benefit to the public but allows those who misrule to be ever more dictatorial (and rich from bribes).
All the fucking shit-filled neoliberal yankee-sucking zio-pig same.
Curse the lot of them.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 14:20 utc | 20

Starmer in pre-Crown Prosecutor days represented the Litvinenko family in the fraudulent "Public" inquiry which blamed Russia for a bizarre death as if a 2 week death bed speech telling lies about Putin was what Russia wanted by poisoning him with Polonium. The Public inquiry found insufficient evidence so the Chairman ended up announcing Russian guilt on the basis of a private briefing from ... ...Christopher Steele.

Posted by: Mickey Droy | Jul 5 2024 14:24 utc | 21


Is there a reason my post isn’t showing up? Got no links in it?

I tried earlier of open thread before this article went up.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 5 2024 14:24 utc | 22

…. George Gallaway lost…..

He‘ll be back !!!

Posted by: Exile | Jul 5 2024 14:25 utc | 23

Posted by: A.z | Jul 5 2024 13:25 utc | 4

Completely right. Large majority in Parliament, media on your side, in the same way the US media is totally aligned with the Democratic Party. I also see no reason why b would say Starmer will fall from power. Like most Europeans (with the exception of France), the British people are sheep who will go along with any narrative the Deep State choses to create. Of all the people in Europe the British people have more reason not to trust the authorities than anyone in Europe.

Political power is wielded by those who ultimately have the guns. Tragically, Europeans have no Second Amendment that makes sure the government doesn't get too much power.

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Jul 5 2024 14:26 utc | 24

Thamks for putting all this together b.
I's a whole weight off my shoulders.

Back to my garden bench for some therapy.

I have tried to step back from the geo fray lately, but geo wont leave me alone it seems.

A week ago sat on my bench in the middle of no where minding my own buseness who should pop round for some advice one to one ? ....
Jacob Reece Mogg.

Ten minutes he went away not looking so smug.
All true.
Now he's no longer a member of parliment.

Kudos to you b get strong.
Much respect.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 14:41 utc | 25

Is Starmer or was Sunak able to talk interest rates lower ? NO. In the UK interest rates went up from (about) 1% in 2020/2021 to over 4% / 5% right now. A LOT OF mortgages have a variable rate. So, if rates go up today then interest payments can go up within 3 months. I have seen a number of videos with that message ("rising interest rates").

3 videos from about a year ago: (lenght: 4 minutes) (lenght: 6 minutes) (lenght: 8 minutes)

(mortgage rate now at 7%)

Posted by: WMG | Jul 5 2024 14:41 utc | 26

Don't forget that Starmer was for some years a member of America's Trilateral Commission:
- - - The political arm of American foreign policy for running the world - - -
Now this evil betrayer is UK Prime Minister - running the UK on behalf of USA.
Starmer is awaiting his first orders from the US deep-state.
It will be more forever wars.
Pity the British sheep and their colonial mentality.
UK is a joke on the international stage.

Posted by: Engineer-John | Jul 5 2024 14:48 utc | 27

Starmer's Labour: A party of the working class, led by the middle class, in the interest of the ruling class.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Jul 5 2024 14:48 utc | 28

"There will soon be an uproar against him." Dunno, more likely an oppresive woke tyrany.

From Chief of the Crown Prosecution Services to Inquisitor General methinks. Time is short, but five years is plenty enough.

Posted by: El Sid | Jul 5 2024 14:52 utc | 29

thanks b... that is pretty depressing... the zionist leechs are attached to uk political system and have been for some time...

@ Republicofscotland | Jul 5 2024 13:51 utc | 11

thanks for sharing your insights here and elsewhere... i knew the politics of scotland was bad, but thanks for any additional insights and hopefully it changes in 2026...

@ Day kNight | Jul 5 2024 13:59 utc | 12

very interesting and i am not surprised.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2024 14:54 utc | 30

The most retarded post-election tripe eva?
Brave Ukrainians are dying every day to defend their right to do what we did yesterday.”
Should someone tell him Zerolenskyyy banned opposition, canceled Ukr elections, and his legitimacy expired in May 2024?

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 5 2024 14:55 utc | 31

A member of the fabian society with all the creepy stuff that entails

Posted by: cresty | Jul 5 2024 15:00 utc | 32

I agree fully with b's analysis of the UK election.

Corbyn was a real chance for the UK to start moving away from empire dreams and methods and a towards a good society.

The establishment was SO petrified, and the media so livid, that -
as Republicofscotland (Jul 5 2024 13:51 utc, 11) writes: 'The concerted attack, and smear campaign against Corbyn (a real socialist politician) was one of the biggest I've ever witnessed'.

Me,too. I followed in horror, daily, the relentless lies, machinations, and the disgraceful behaviour of the quislings within the Labour Party.

I have deep respect for JCorbyn, and hope his voice grows stronger again. The UK needs to clean its augean stables.

Posted by: JB | Jul 5 2024 15:08 utc | 33

The British proles can now experience being stabbed in the front by open enemies instead of stabbed in the back by traitors...Britain, like South Africa, needs to create a homeland for its natives, protected from the vibrants being imported....

Posted by: pyrrhus | Jul 5 2024 15:10 utc | 34

Phew were only on comment 31 and were on fire.
Here's more.... false flags have been mentioed. I prodicted one this time, i was wrong... or was i ?
I got to thinking. And here it is, of course....
Migrant boats comming across the channel. Has been a vote winner for the right in its entirety.

Sorry the migrant smugglers are run by the british intelagence.
Same princible as US funding isis.
Then dont forget white helmets.
Its a vote winner.
Thats the false flag.
They can stoo those boats in a day if they wish.
Back to the bence.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 15:14 utc | 35

The DEMOCRATIC west political sideshow continues as the enlightened global majority watch on laughing at our pathetic comedy.
5 minutes into job and the stupid prick's hair will go white as he realises the cost of his vanity.
Just like the US and France, the soros' boys don't want to be at the helm anymore as the shit ship sinks.
WEF will have to try something else now, maybe start a new religion.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Jul 5 2024 15:16 utc | 36

Vibrants ..... i love that its gunna stick

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 15:18 utc | 37

"I do note expect him to survive for long."
fully concur with that
although he should last longer than the lettuce
(maybe 2 lettuces)

33.7% of vote was disastrous when all polls for past 2 years indicated 40%+

Posted by: chris m | Jul 5 2024 15:31 utc | 38

In other words, the Israelis control the British government just like they do the US.

Posted by: ZimInSeattle | Jul 5 2024 15:34 utc | 39

Starmer is a spook. All you have to do is look at him to tell. Officially or not doesn't matter. He Will do what the boys in Langley tell him to. I hope b is right as to his shelf life. Jeremy Corbyn in his victory speech seems to agree.

Posted by: c | Jul 5 2024 15:34 utc | 40

The Deep State (States) are buying time by cultivating controlled opposition. Keir Starmer is a perfect example. They removed Corbin preemptively. There is growing dissatisfaction among working class which they defuse using "divide et impera". Usage of "LGBT*.* issue" is another perfect example. The dissatisfaction of working class will keep growing until the elite realize that they should reduce exploitation or until something unexpected happens, just as in 1848. Until then, we will have more of the same in UK, Germany, France, US... Consequently in Ukraine. Very sad!

Posted by: Grey Cloud | Jul 5 2024 15:39 utc | 41

Starmer being a dreary Ukraine drone is wonderful. Britons would be in serious trouble if he was even as independent as Tony Blair and had the spine to end losing projects. At least Blair's errors were made in a time of great peace in the West.

Most Labour sheep have learned nothing from the beatdown given to the formerly triumphant Tories, and actually think they are popular. Their time will come.

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Jul 5 2024 15:41 utc | 42

“It received less votes..”

It received fewer votes, not less.

I don’t know why this is such a problem ( not issue) for commentators but it is

Posted by: I am not Spartacus l | Jul 5 2024 15:41 utc | 43

The Deep State (States) are buying time by cultivating controlled opposition. Keir Starmer is a perfect example. They removed Corbin preemptively. There is growing dissatisfaction among working class which they defuse using "divide et impera". Usage of "LGBT*.* issue" is another perfect example. The dissatisfaction of working class will keep growing until the elite realize that they should reduce exploitation or until something unexpected happens, just as in 1848. Until then, we will have more of the same in UK, Germany, France, US... Consequently in Ukraine. Very sad!

Posted by: Grey Cloud | Jul 5 2024 15:39 utc | 41

You mention two salient points here; let's link them: "The Deep State (States)," whether you meant States=United States or the combined Deep States of Britain and the US, etc tells us that 'elite' interests are divorced from local interests. So the UK elites may realize they should reduce exploitation to avoid a blow up, but they won't be able to do it, because they have no freedom of action. Thus 'something unexpected' will happen. Except that everyone is expecting it.

Posted by: Honzo | Jul 5 2024 16:02 utc | 44

I live in Britain

B is right that the conservatives lost the election rather than Labour winning it. people were so angry with Tory incompetence and petty venality that conservative voters defected to reform or stayed at home. There was also and organised tactical voting campaign against the Tories which cost them about 100 seats.

Starmer had a record of purging opponents from the Labour party including as you mentioned Jeremy Corbin and saying anything to get ahead so nobody is quiet sure of what he really stands for - a left wing commentator has an interesting take

Starmer's apparent character traits are conscientiousness, dullness and visibly supporting whatever the popular orthodoxy is (on the surface nobody is sure what he really thinks) - his team are a bunch of intellectually challenged yes people and he is likely to win again in four/five years time unless there is a serious screw up

Posted by: Aslangeo | Jul 5 2024 16:10 utc | 45

I know some posters love getting in their, ‘it wasn’t real socialism/communism etc’ excuses to explain away the inevitable failure of their beloved doctrines whenever implemented, but doing so on the first day surely smacks of desperation.

I also loved the theory about the Grenfell Tower’s disaster, it couldn’t possibly have been caused by an electrical fault, possibly because a tenant was using their fridge as a makeshift air conditioner, no, it has to be an operation to conceal a safe house for the Manchester bomber (if I read that correctly). The motive for the bombing being to divert media attention away from a manifesto that the BBC endlessly promoted as radical and caused revulsion in many traditional Labour voters minds. Yeah, right, foil cap on nice and secure, here’s some news for you, safe houses are rarely located in hard to access tower blocks, where clean up crews have to murder 70 people.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 16:16 utc | 46

Nokaz | Jul 5 2024 14:00 utc | 14
*** Many of the people on the Labour left are the sort of people who have spent most of their lives fighting racism.***

And generally being wokist -- which very much suits their puppet masters and corporate vested interests of the monopoly-capitalist establishment. These so-called "leftists" (basically either sanctimonious liberals or dupes of a carefully concocted perversion of anti-capitalist ideology) actually fight to *destroy* the working class of their own countries, and any sense of cohesion against the corporate predators and their bought political parties.
False logic and criminal irresponsibility -- but never mind, they can harangue, bully, attack or cancel everyone else, often while lining their own pockets and always feeling ever so self-righteous no matter how much collateral damage and misery -- or death -- their self-indulgent actions lead to.
Allegedly "green" parties throughout Britain and continental Europe are nowadays notably full of such arseholes.

*** To label these people as 'anti-Semitic' seems to me to be a black joke ***

Many of the "real" leftists refer to the zionist supporters / puppets as "anti-semitic" because the accusers regard zionism itself as an "anti-semitic" ideology.
Unfortunately, that can confuse a lot of ordinary people.
The mass media makes sure not to explain that logic.
Remember when when Ken Livingston was expelled from the Labour Party (by the Starmer gang, with Corbyn disgracefully opted out of supporting him) for stating a fact -- not an opinion, a verified fact -- about the Nazi - Zionist collusion during and before WW2 Germany?
The media just attacked KL with no attempt at explanation (the public are not supposed to know such inconvenient truths).
That's typical of the deliberate, by-omission, confusion of the public.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 16:16 utc | 47

Starmer is a spook. All you have to do is look at him to tell.

Historian David Starkey thinks so too - video here -

Posted by: Aslangeo | Jul 5 2024 16:19 utc | 48

Lets see Starmer...Hmm.

He berated the swedes for dropping out of the false prosecution of Julian Assange.

He failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile as head of the CPO.

He made sure (defended in law) that none of the assassins, sorry I meant armed police officers who murdered Charles de Menezes saw the inside of a cell.

De Menezes was an electrician who helped in the plan of 7/7 where bombs were planted in subway trains and on a bus in London and made to look like a terrorist attack.

The four men accused of the plot where shot dead in Canary Wharf they were trying to contact the press to clear themselves

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 5 2024 16:23 utc | 49

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 16:16 utc | 46

Labour under Starmer is a fascist party, he is about as socialist as Pinochet. Let's not pretend the UK labour party hasn't been corrupted from within. The campaign to oust Corbyn was orchestrated with the assistance of the media, left and right. The reality is, the entire system is corrupt. Expect riots as they try to push people to fight their WW3.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jul 5 2024 16:26 utc | 50

Israel lobby bankrolls Labour’s election campaign to the tune of over half a million

Ahead of the general election, pro-Israel businessman Stuart Roden has handed Keir Starmer’s Labour Party over half a million pounds. It’s thanks to Declassified UK we know this.

Another pro-Israel tycoon, Gary Lubner, donated a further £900k to Labour during the election. Lubner had already given the party £4.5m. Luber himself is a longstanding donor to the United Jewish Israel Appeal, which the Electronic Intifada reports has “close ties to the state of Israel”. The Lubner family are also longstanding donors to Israel.

The pro-Israel lobby is bankrolling Labour, its election campaign and individual MPs. Pro-Israel individuals and groups have funded 20% of incumbent Labour MPs.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 5 2024 16:32 utc | 51

Exactly my take on Sir Keir Starmer apart from the fact that he will be a difficult stain to remove from the carpet. The Labour majority is too large. Voter turnout was very low because people knew the Conservatives would get kicked out no matter what happened. The Scottish National Party (Nicola Sturgeon) imploded to Labour's benefit. The Conservative vote imploded and the Liberal Democrats and Reform benefitted. The Liberal democrats did well where people did not like Farage. Farage got more votes for 4 MPs than the Liberal Democrats got for 71 MPs.

Posted by: Kaiama | Jul 5 2024 16:32 utc | 52

Spot on analysis - Starmer was hoping for a big majority to take us to war with Russia and China - he is a Blair mini-me.
France votes Sunday, a choice between Le Pen or chaos, and I don't think Sleepy Joe will last much beyond that as a panicking Dem Party searches desperately for a Stop Trump candidate.
Interesting times.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jul 5 2024 16:33 utc | 53

Richard Seymour on the UK elections:

We now have a Labour government for the first time in fourteen years, but its majority is grossly disproportionate to its actual support in the country: 64% of the seats, 34% of the vote: far from the 45% polling indicated at the start of the election. Indeed, Labour's share of the vote is scarcely different from that obtained in 2019, the 'worst result in Labour's history'. The only real difference is the composition of the vote, as it accumulated centrist swing voters in roughly the same degree to which it lost voters from the Left. It was elected on a record low turnout (59%), with plans, the details of which were not disclosed to the public, but without a substantial political offer.

The biggest change in this election was the collapse of the Tory vote and the concomitant rise of the far-right Reform UK, which took four seats with 14% of the vote. This is not as big as the polls suggested, but it is an accomplishment given that Reform has no real party structure or constituency organisation. No doubt the media's systematic tendency to overrepresent Nigel Farage and his issues in national debates is part of this, but I fear it reflects a real enthusiasm among parts of the public. The Conservatives, with 25% of the vote, were knocked down to 121 seats, but this isn't the wipe out some polls had anticipated. There is every chance that, as they regroup and elect a new leader, they will veer to the farraginous right and seek a new electoral agreement with Reform. Given that their combined vote was bigger than Labour's share, that would be significant for 2029.

The Left also did better out of this election than it deserved to, given how little preparatory work it did. Four Greens in parliament, five pro-Palestine independents including Jeremy Corbyn. Leanne Mohamad, a hitherto unknown figure, almost unseated shadow health secretary Wesley Streeting. Labour strongholds like Bethnal Green & Stepney, and Birmingham Yardley, are now marginals. However, the far-right surge will have the stronger immediate effects, both because national media will give it more attention and because Labour will always yield more readily to rightist pressure over immigration than to pressure from the Left.

There are three big issues that were almost totally absent in the campaign fought by the main parties: Gaza, climate change, and infrastructural decay. They all contributed to the fragmentation at the base despite the fact that the election was fought without detailed attention to any of them. Gaza wasn't an issue for the main parties because they don't differ substantially on foreign policy. Climate change was nearly absent despite record flooding, extreme heat and the growing economic costs, because no one in power wants to seriously address the scale of adaptations and the speed of change necessary. The conspiracy of silence around the funding requirements just to keep public services working was abetted by a media credulously absorbed by endless trivialities. As Simon Fletcher points out, just to keep public services at their current disastrously poor level would require £142bn extra spending a year by 2030, but this was absent in the campaign.

This is an untenable and volatile situation. Labour is about to govern on the basis of an agenda that hardly anyone understands or wants. Its leadership has little real political nous and its doubtful it can handle the fall-out. His every instinct under pressure is to lean harder to the right. When he lost in Hartlepool after running a dismal, patronising, beer and flags campaign, he surrounded himself with Blairite advisors. When he didn't win in Uxbridge, he blamed the unpopularity of London mayor Sadiq Khan’s ultra-low emissions zone (ULEZ) policy – then Khan went on to win London again, with a bigger share of the vote than Labour got in the city. Most of his tactical blunders have followed from this right-cleaving instinct: barring shadow front-bench ministers from attending picket lines, supporting the siege on Gaza, blocking left candidates in the election campaign by all manner of bureaucratic fixes. It is obvious what he will do when his already negligible popularity plummets, his government is afflicted by crises, his plans for investment don't deliver, the main opposition in parliament and media comes from the Tory-Farageist Right and his global interlocutors include Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen. He will pass new anti-protest laws, round up more immigrants, give police more powers, break a strike, make it illegal to sleep rough, impose an emergency law, join another war – and all of this will strike the incurably moronic lumpencommentariat as terribly clever, ruthless, decisive, winning.

So, enjoy the Tory demolition job as much as you can for now: there's work to be done.

Posted by: JAB | Jul 5 2024 16:36 utc | 54

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 5 2024 16:32 utc | 51

Pro-Israel tycoon gives Labour half a million pounds
Stuart Roden started a company with an Israeli special forces veteran and a senior Conservative. He’s now among Labour’s top election donors.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 5 2024 16:36 utc | 55

Posted by: Day kNight | Jul 5 2024 13:59 utc | 12
££ Makes sense all of it but you forgot to link the Skripals to your story.

££ If the British version of the affair is to be believed, Sergey Skripal and his daughter Yulia were affected by a nerve agent in the British town of Salisbury on March 4, 2018.

££ London later claimed that the substance had been developed in Russia and Moscow was allegedly behind the incident.

££ The Russian side strongly dismissed all speculations on this score, saying that no programs for developing such a substance had ever existed either in the Soviet Union or in Russia. Specialists at Britain’s laboratory in Porton Down said they were unable to identify the origin of the substance that had been presumably used for poisoning the Skripals.

££ Sturgess and her companion Charles Rowley on June 30, 2018 were taken to the hospital in Amesbury in critical condition. On July 8, the news arrived Sturgess had died in the hospital. Rowley was discharged on July 20 only to be hospitalized once again; this time diagnosed with meningitis.

££ The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical weapons in September 2018 said in a report that Sturgess’ death was due to a contact with the same chemical that had earlier affected the Skripals.

Posted by: AI | Jul 5 2024 16:36 utc | 56

I’m so glad b’s observations on the UK election result is of the same high standard as your input on other matters that I come here to usually read about. I wish your convalescence will continue on a positive path.

Posted by: Italanon | Jul 5 2024 16:39 utc | 57

“It received less votes..”

It received fewer votes, not less.

I don’t know why this is such a problem ( not issue) for commentators but it is

Posted by: I am not Spartacus l | Jul 5 2024 15:41 utc | 43

"It received less votes" is perfectly fine English.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 16:44 utc | 58

What does "Deep State" mean in Britain? In Turkey, it's the old boys network of Kemalists that strives to keep society and politics from changing. In the USA, it means the permanent bureaucracy, especially the police and spy agencies.

Posted by: lester | Jul 5 2024 16:45 utc | 59

Aslangeo | Jul 5 2024 16:10 utc | 45
*** Starmer's apparent character traits are conscientiousness, dullness and visibly supporting whatever the popular orthodoxy is (on the surface nobody is sure what he really thinks) - his team are a bunch of intellectually challenged yes people and he is likely to win again in four/five years time unless there is a serious screw up ***

Far worse than that. He's a rabid zionist and rabid neoliberal (note the deliberate ambiguity and semantics in declared "Labour" policies) totally in the service of the US-empire and its perpetual war machine.
Build millions of houses to accommodate the totally unsustainable infliction of literally millions more unwanted immigrants, both illegal and legal. Gibber on robotically about "growth" when there is already bugger all to "grow" other than financial fraud in the City of London, and an ever increasing, witch-finder stuffed surveillance State -- much of which will itself be 'outsourced' to corporate cronies home and abroad.
Much of the UK public have just obligingly voted for ebola rather than bubonic plague -- both garnished with smallpox -- while generally not being enthused about either.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 16:52 utc | 60

Chris Cosmos @24

How's that Second Amendment working out in the USA?

Posted by: Muph | Jul 5 2024 16:54 utc | 61

Many times I am surprised by b's cogent insights on a wide variety of subjects. As he is not British, he's delivered a better analysis of the election results than about 99% of the British commentariat.

The only thing I would disagree with is the fall: no matter how incompetent/vicious/neoliberal Starmer is, he can carry on for the full five year term because of the anachronistic nature of the UK electoral system.

Lots of interesting comments too!

Posted by: JulianJ | Jul 5 2024 17:06 utc | 62

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jul 5 2024 16:26 utc | 50

Wow, you lefties are shameless. So when the inevitable potpourri of leftist anti-human nonsense, magical thinking collapses, as peak incoherence is reached, then it was the fascists fault. I guess infantile dogmas require infantile defence mechanisms, I guess the Labour cabinet, after their first disastrous year can all put their hands in front of their faces and say, ‘can’t see me’, in unison.

Although the press focused on Brexit, as a reason for the 2019 collapse of the Red Wall, it was also Corbyn’s disastrous manifesto that pushed many Labour voters to the edge. Middle class, trendy radicals, who love the idea of the working class, but try not to associate with them, loved it though, so who are the real socialists? I’d like to hear from posters who have real, first hand experience, working with the ‘working-class’ to hear their stories, and see if it matches my own. Historically, the middle-class have always taken it upon themselves to speak for this group and instinctively believe they know what’s best for them, including initiating bloody revolutions that consume their lives.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 5 2024 17:08 utc | 63

It will probably be like Blair's government. Apart from the issue of Israel, where Starmer is fully owned by the Lobby, it'll be better than the Tories. There are a lot of reasonable people in the Labour Party. And the Tories were deeply corrupt as well as incompetent. The number of wasteful and extremely expensive contracts that went to the friends of the Tories was appalling. Most acts that were passed were mainly aimed at pocketing a maximum of public cash, not at achieving anything. Especially at the time of COVID but not only. Labour will be a lot better than that; how much better we don't know. Things worked reasonably well under Blair, particularly the NHS. The catastrophe was Iraq, which of course we now know was done to a large degree on behalf of Israel. Starmer could well do something similar, but there's a lot of opposition now to going to war for Israel, and an Iraq can't be repeated.

Posted by: laguerre | Jul 5 2024 17:17 utc | 64

The most prevalent feature of Zionist Starmer's personal character is that he supports the genocide in Gaza.

Posted by: AI | Jul 5 2024 17:19 utc | 65

Starmer's Labour is unapologetically Blairite. They describe themselves as centre-left, or are happy to be described as left by sections of the media, but were never so.

Tony Blair heisted the Labour Party with the New Labour project, which at that time described itself as pro working class and moved it to the right. So far right in fact that in the twilight of her years Margaret Thatcher would call (New) Labour her greatest achievement.

Corbyn in 2015 was entered onto the Labour leadership ballot as sop to the "broad church" narrative against 3 wholesome Blairites (Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall) as a 200-1 outsider. He had the audacity to actually win it with 60% of the vote. From that point onwards he was targeted by the party machine culminating in a bid to oust him by having a second leadership election. He won that as well increasing his vote share to 62%.

That's when the anti-semitism charges started.

Corbyn was (IMHO) the UK citizens' last chance to hold onto some of its rights be it legal, social or economic. that chance was squandered. Thrown away. Discarded.

Now they have Starmer. An authoritarian and a boot licker. Starmer is not going anywhere, he will govern for at least another 4 years if not more and after that normal service will be resumed as the posh kids learn to say the right things and to grease the right palms that will put them back into office.

But what of the UK citizen? They are more screwed now that I think they realise, but it will some become a lot clearer.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 5 2024 17:24 utc | 66 just wow. The truth rings like a.
I'm regaining the will ti live.
Pretty worn out actualy.

So dose any one want to 'do' teresa may, boris johnson and the ukraine virus conection to this. Its cost in deaths and money tax payers money.
We need a facist purge.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 17:27 utc | 67

Oh well, looks like I shall have to find a new user name here; although Jeremy *unt saved his seat he’s gone very low profile and doesn’t feature in any of the punditry that’s already started about who might be the next Tory leader.

As for the result, it will be same sh*t, different rosettes. The Starmtrooper has already stuffed his Cabinet with fellow-travelling neolibs**, so we can look forward to continued austerity, continued belligerence towards Russia and China, continued support for the genocide of Palestinians, continued ‘contractor cronyism’ infiltrating the NHS, new-fangled tinkering at the edges of our creaking and shambolic public transport services, continued devaluation of our currency, oh, and we’ll continue to be crap at international football tournaments (I didn’t vote for Gareth Southgate...).

Meanwhile the potholes on the local roads just get deeper...

**Q: What’s the difference between neocons and neolibs?
A: Neocons delight in waging war on the worlds populations, neolibs delight in waging war on their own populations.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Jul 5 2024 17:34 utc | 68

Julianj @ 62
Your comment is incorrect and thats very important.
In Britain voters dont vote for a priminister
Members can vote for a priminister or a cabinate can vote one in or out.
Very relevant, starmers like marmite. He stole his job from Corbyn.
Very easly labour voters could do to starmer what starmer did to Corbyn. Karma

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 17:44 utc | 69

If you can remove serious politicians elections don't matter.

Maybe Corbyn can retake labour, unlikely put possible. Maybe he'll do a Farage and split labour in the middle.

With a first through the post system, elections would be more random than ever.

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 5 2024 17:45 utc | 70

Given that Starmer's family are "being raised jewish" it is possible that there exist certain biases in his positions on "Israel".

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 5 2024 17:49 utc | 71

Starmer is an atheist who occasionally attends a liberal synagogue, and is sending his children to a Jewish school so they can learn the traditions of their maternal grandmother.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 17:51 utc | 72

So who funds farage ?
Now after 8 times of trying he's become an MP he will have to disclose his finances and who's backing him. Mmmm interesting.
Murdocch ? Israel lobby groups ? You get the idear.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 17:54 utc | 73

Given that Starmer's family are "being raised jewish" it is possible that there exist certain biases in his positions on "Israel".

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 5 2024 17:49 utc | 71


Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 17:54 utc | 74

Milites 46

There were electrical causes for the fire and some purely Tory blunders.

The Tory dogma sacked the permanent Council electricians who knew the building and its design faults.
The cost-cutting , privatised electricians ignored residents complaints about laptops " smoking " because of the loss of the main neutral connection that was causing in -flat voltages of 350 volts .

Under the privatised system nobody gave a damn about damage done to appliances like fridge freezers.
No body gave a damn about external insulation. Nobody gave damn about Fire exit staircases. A lot of people gave a damn about taking responsibility for privatisation's failures and mistakes.

Safe houses are usually maintained by contractors who are known to the military to be competent under military duress not by office dwellers reaping profits.

Why not go and moan about Socialism somewhere else?

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 5 2024 17:56 utc | 75

In my view, Starmer is Blair 2.0. He wouldn't hesitate to invade any given country just like Blair did and is equally void of morals.

Some time ago I read that Sunak called for an early election because he didn't want to be remembered as the war time prime ministere who introduced compulsory military service. Sunak was quite transparent about "the need" of compulsory military service while Starmer was anything but. I wonder if he will enforce it.

I do expect him to survive long because it's never about the populace but instead about upholding certain "elite" interests. Truss was extremely bad at selling the pursued course to the British public, I expect Blair 2.0 to do this fine.

Posted by: xor | Jul 5 2024 17:57 utc | 76

How's that Second Amendment working out in the USA?

Posted by: Muph | Jul 5 2024 16:54 utc | 61

I'm not Chris, but my son has two AR-15's (which are fun to shoot) and a 9mm S&W, and nobody has shown up at his door to take them yet, so overall working out fine.

Posted by: Phil R | Jul 5 2024 17:57 utc | 77

AI (56).

The Skripal's were supposed to have been infected by one of the most deadly nerve agents on Earth yet both lived, both found unconscious on a bench in Salisbury and they jut happened to be found by the head of the British Military Medical Unit who was casually walking past them, how convenient.

After the so called perpetrators carried out their foul deed, they somehow managed to rewrapped a perfume bottle full of the nerve agent so it looked as though it was never opened.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 5 2024 18:00 utc | 78

Milites | Jul 5 2024 17:08 utc | 63
*** Although the press focused on Brexit, as a reason for the 2019 collapse of the Red Wall, it was also Corbyn’s disastrous manifesto that pushed many Labour voters to the edge. ***

Starmer's faction deliberately sabotaged Labour and Corbyn with regard to the "brexit" thing.

The mentioned manifesto -- especially about re-nationalising infrastructure and utilities -- was actually popular with many Conservative voters. But it did not get properly publicised, in an election as devoid of serious policy / ideology discussion as the one just ended.
Instead, the government plus mass-media and Starmer gang just ranted on and on and on about (imaginary and thoroughly irrelevant) "anti-semitism" in the Labour Party.

There may come a time when "Jews" (whether guilty or innocent) in Britain will pay a price for that deluge of malign drivel. Everyone else has paid already. And for sure, a Starmer dictatorship will add to it.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 5 2024 18:01 utc | 79

Appears Stramer is very pro-genocide

Posted by: Exile | Jul 5 2024 18:09 utc | 81

The Evening Standard is out of the gate with advice to Rachel Reeves that she should help loot pensions.

1) Remove liability for pension fund trustees so they aren't petrified of doing anything interesting (since pension funds are nearly all moving into surplus due to higher interest rates, it is time to take a few risks).

Posted by: too scents | Jul 5 2024 18:12 utc | 82

The Christian West is being Juicided right now as we speak

Posted by: phenon | Jul 5 2024 18:13 utc | 83

John Gilbert@28: Good line John, ‘Labor. Party of the working class led by the middle class in the interest of the ruling class.’ Along similar lines for the US I’d say for both parties: Parties of the very rich in service to the super rich.

Posted by: mjh | Jul 5 2024 18:15 utc | 84

@UWDude 74

So UK will be run by a fatalistic atheist opt in judaic.

Thoughts to you Mark2, makes Mogg look quaint.

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 5 2024 18:20 utc | 85

Thanks Ornot @ 85
i'll take that.
Needs must.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2024 18:24 utc | 86

Ornot 71

The problem with Starmer I'd not that he's got Jewish connections but that he is a rent a gob. If a re-constructed Trump robot declares wsr on China, Sir Gob will replicate .
If Trump robot wants war on Palestine Sir Gob will replicate.
If Tories want private insurance for NHS, Sir Gob will replicate.

A 3D printer couldn't do a better job of implementing right wing tripe.

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 5 2024 18:25 utc | 87

The death rattle of the west hegemony continues. The UK vassals pantomime will not change the inevitability of their downfall.

Meanwhile, the BRICs+ bloc rises. Russia is in the ascendency. China, along with Russia cannot be broken by the cancer that has pervaded and now destroyed the west... for now. For the western countries to recover and become responsible world citizens will require that they excise / destroy the cancer.

Posted by: Áobh Ó'Sheachnasaigh | Jul 5 2024 18:29 utc | 88

The Great Day

HURRAH for revolution and more cannon-shot!
A beggar upon horseback lashes a beggar on foot.
Hurrah for revolution and cannon come again!
The beggars have changed places, but the lash goes on.

W. B. Yeats

No further comment.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jul 5 2024 18:32 utc | 89

As a Brit I would like to offer my thinking. Take it or leave it.

The first past the post system is designed to punish failure and give majorities to allow the Nation (The UK is actually nations) to be governed. As every political career ends in failure (sic), so does every government.

Labour won a landslide on c 34% of the vote because we do not have proportional representation but a constituency based FPTP system. IMO Tony Blair was a giant in UK politics (though I loathed him) as he politicised the Civil Service and Media (didn’t need much) and moved the Overton Window very far left. So now we regard what used to be centre as far right.

I am now deemed a dangerous far right extremist though my politics have moderated over the years and once were in accord with the then ruling party, the Conservatives. The net result though is that a huge swathe of the electorate have decided that no party actually stands for their interests or promotes values and policies that accord with their world view. So this election is a protest vote. Against the status quo – globalist shite wokery corrupt lying BS warmongering nonsense.

Of course Labour got c 34% of the vote and it always will. This is its tribe. Like the Dems in the USA. It is not a rational thing. Or wasn’t. Now maybe with 20 million immigrants in the UK since I was young I would think the anti-immigration rhetoric of the right would easily persuade a newcomer to vote for someone else.

The Right – who believe in two sexes, sound finance, personal liberty, opportunity, merit, tradition, small government, low taxes, reward for hard work, families etc etc – have found the Conservatives have moved so far left that they no longer recognise the party. If you read the Daily Telegraph comments you will pick up this frustration and that no mainstream party reflects their life view. The Right in the UK is perhaps 40%, maybe declining. But it seems like France, the young are rebelling. They may try the left but IMHO Labour’s policies are in essence indistinguishable from those of the Tories. We will see, and Labour are better at spin.

The Right vote was split resulting in a rout and an easy victory for labour, which is “soft left” these days but will I think prove insane on various economic and woke/green issues. Despite the landslide it might be a one term administration. The UK’s problems are deep seated and intractable, and the politicised Civil Service and Government agencies are in control – another Blair innovation.

So yet again we see democracy in action, a government kicked out, and a new fresh administration voted in. Except there will be little change, except the left leaning permanent deep state might be more co-operative. Same in the USA, same in France, same in Germany?

However in foreign policy terms there will be no change. These guys will do as they are told (sorry advised). They are social crusaders by inclination, and now have the opportunity to do that on a world stage – with minimal understanding.

I would just point out that back in the day I had the opportunity to meet many of the senior people in the Labour movement. Stupid, venal, narcissistic game players. Usually very corrupt. Street fighters. These were not nice people. And I doubt much has changed. Just sayin’…..

Ps All politicians are cut from the same block, you wouldn’t want them leading you but they are the only personality types that put themselves forward.

Posted by: marcjf | Jul 5 2024 18:39 utc | 90


We are in a collective suicide cult but only for now

Posted by: phenon | Jul 5 2024 18:40 utc | 91

Starmer made great play of his role as Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). He thinks he was appointed on Reality is he’s a security plant. He’s such a mediocre lawyer he would never have been appointed as anything on merit. He’s a right wing zionist. Expect fuck all progressive from him.

Posted by: Vragtes | Jul 5 2024 18:43 utc | 92

My post at #92 should read he thinks he was appointed on merit.

Posted by: Vragtes | Jul 5 2024 18:44 utc | 93

UWDude at 74

“ Challenging pre-conceptions about endemic anti-Semitism in Labour’s ranks, Starmer is a convert to Judaism”

Check X feed of “Masorti Judaism”11 Jan 2018

Posted by: will moon | Jul 5 2024 18:47 utc | 94

From BAD to much, much worse

Personal life
In 2007, he married Victoria Alexander, whom he had met in the 2000s when she was a solicitor and Starmer was a barrister. Their family has a son, Toby, and a daughter, whose name was not disclosed to the public. Victoria is the daughter of a Polish-Jewish father, her mother also converted to Judaism, and their family lived in the Gospel Oak area of the London borough of Camden. The Starmer family lives in the constituency of the head of the family in the same borough in a townhouse worth £1.75 million. After leaving the practice of law, Victoria worked as a manager at the school where her children studied, and then became involved in occupational health and safety issues in the public health system. Keir Starmer calls himself an atheist, but attends a Liberal Judaism synagogue with his wife and children.

On May 24, 2024, Starmer announced his readiness to recognize the state of Palestine if he came to power.

Minister of Finance Rachel Reeves
She then obtained an MSc in economics from the London School of Economics.[9]
Reeves's first job after leaving university was with the Bank of England.[10] She moved to Leeds in 2006 to work for the retail arm of HBOS.[2][11] She was once interviewed for a job at Goldman Sachs but turned it down despite claiming that the job could have made her "a lot richer".[12]

Reeves is a vice-chair of Labour Friends of Israel,[74] contributed a chapter to a book about Israeli politics and society,[75] and supports the Auschwitz-Birkenau Foundation.[76][77]

Later that month, Reeves was ranked number one in the New Statesman's Left Power List 2023, above Keir Starmer, which described her as "the most influential person on the British left today".[45]

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jul 5 2024 18:54 utc | 95

let's be straight: Israel is on the downhill road to destruction. Starmer can't change that by his obedience to the Israel Lobby. But he can make things more difficult, and delay the inevitable. He can but he won't, because Britain's role in the Middle East is now of no consequence. He will let the Israelis use the British airbases in Cyprus. And that will put an end to those sovereign bases; before it's useful for Israel.

Posted by: laguerre | Jul 5 2024 18:55 utc | 96

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 5 2024 18:06 utc | 80
Starmer [badge 1456] is also a member of the Deep State.

Posted by: AI | Jul 5 2024 19:04 utc | 97

When in Canada I could just not wrap my head around FPP - First Past Post. A run off election with the top 2 seemed more sane.

This editorial helped me wrap my head around the UK election. Much much more than just about the pro-Gaza independents

Posted by: paxmark1 | Jul 5 2024 19:11 utc | 98

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 5 2024 18:00 utc | 78

££ On June 22 2024, the Skripals’ lawyer Jack Holborn said at a hearing into the 2018 death of British citizen Dawn Sturgess that his clients were unwilling to attend the inquiry, which is due to begin on October 14.

££"Speculations have surfaced in the media about whether the Skripals will attend the October 14 inquiry. The answer is not clear as the issue remains in limbo," Moscow’s Ambassador to London Andrey Kelin noted.

££"Although we have sent a lot of requests to the Foreign Office regarding the fate of both Yulia and Sergey Skripal, we received only one response, a few months ago. It largely said that Yulia had the opportunity to contact the embassy but did not wish to do so. As for Sergey Skripal, the question remained unanswered," the diplomat explained.

££"However, we will keep trying to get information from the British authorities about his health and legal status, as well as about the circumstances of what happened. I cannot say how the hearings will impact the substance of the issue because this process is being dragged out and it’s not clear yet how it will end," the Russian envoy added.

Posted by: AI | Jul 5 2024 19:16 utc | 99

On May 24, 2024, Starmer announced his readiness to recognize the state of Palestine if he came to power.

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jul 5 2024 18:54 utc | 95

Obama said we would be out of Iraq in 90 days, and we could, "take that to the bank."

Starmer would recognize the state of palestine once moved to the Sinai, i am sure is what he meant when he made that statement with his fingers crossed behind his back.

OT.. many McDonalds standing plastic clown statues found on restaurant roofs have their fingers crossed behind their back.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 5 2024 19:24 utc | 100

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