Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 30, 2024
Palestine Open Thread 2024-153

News & views related to the war in Palestine …

Of interest:

US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7Reuters

Between the war's start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.

Israel Reduces Food for Palestinian Security Prisoners, Conceals Data, Sources Say (archived) – Haaretz

The petition was filed following the dozens of testimonies from security prisoners and detainees who are not connected with Hamas that the Prison Service has significantly reduced their food rations, to the point of starvation, causing them to shed dozens of kilograms.

The Postwar Vision That Sees Gaza Sliced Into Security Zones Concentration Camps (archived) – Wall Street Journal

The plans—whether or not they get adopted in full—reveal hard realities about the aftermath that rarely get voiced. Among them, that Palestinian civilians could be confined indefinitely to smaller areas of the Gaza Strip while fighting continues outside, and that Israel’s army could be forced to remain deeply involved in the enclave for years until Hamas is marginalized.

Israel Is Officially Annexing the West Bank (archived) – Foreign Policy

In late February, Smotrich—an avowed homophobe and proponent of Jewish superiority—signed an agreement with Defense Minister Yoav Gallant to transfer a number of governmental powers in the West Bank from the territory’s military commander to Smotrich. (In addition to serving as finance minister, Smotrich is also a minister in the Defense Ministry.) The move was agreed upon in the coalition agreement between Likud and the Religious Zionist Party.

Comments

Mark2 98
Much of the Muslim world is off the scale of Fascism, and finds difficulty , or as MBS put it , pain, in disapproving of the USUKIS genocide of Palestine.
No wonder what is left of the Left in Europe has been dispersed by Right wing pressures from.all sides.

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 1 2024 8:03 utc | 101

Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | Jul 1 2024 2:58 utc | 84
============
Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 3:17 utc | 86
Wayback has it.
Not likely jab related. Massie apparently onto the reality of the jabs.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240630161119/https://www.theburningplatform.com/2024/06/30/did-mossad-just-assassinate-rep-thomas-massies-wife-because/

Posted by: Mary | Jul 1 2024 8:11 utc | 102

Giyane @ 101
Greetings to you.
I suspect MBS difficulty is mainly financal dependents on the US. The us controls their wealth.
Your second para…
We have to be carefull of the term ‘left’ it means completly diffent things in different cultues, ie deliberatly curupted.
Its not blokes with hand bags or a negative concept of Communism.
What it is, is Social ism.
I ‘think’ we may agree.
Respect.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 8:25 utc | 103

Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | Jul 1 2024 2:58 utc | 84
============
Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 3:17 utc | 86.
Now the wayback link is 404d. It didn’t work at 1sy when I was on there, but suddenly did.
Regardless, her obit says she had long term health issues.
https://lewiscountyherald.com/rhonda-massie
“Her passing was a shock to everyone, but she had fought through years of health struggles so well and without complaint that most wouldn’t have known she had any.”

Posted by: Mary | Jul 1 2024 8:28 utc | 104

“…If true, there should at least be a couple videos of tanks cooking off, of turrets flying, and burned bodies of the crew. Where are they ?…”
Posted by: Moonie | Jun 30 2024 16:07 utc | 22
Daily at EI (electronic intifada) moonsie. Bodies dead count and images of soldiers is bad for MIC business -so essentially forbidden. So where are they?-got to do a little get past censor homework.

Posted by: Slim | Jul 1 2024 9:15 utc | 105

Mark2 103
Hi. How is it possible for KSA to be be financially dependent on USUKIS when it is KSA money that USUKIS uses to levereage its funny money?
No KSA money in USUKIS banks => no interest- based fiat money, no Imperialist wars.
The reality is that when the Jews enable a country to enter the global banking system, they teach them the Fascist controls like 24/7 spying that secure the banking system.
China and KSA are fully Fascistised through their financial connection to USUKIS.
While the parasite host is busy worrying about IT security, the back door of IT system opens and pinches the savings of the parasited country.
All rich oil countries are attached by their financial testicles to Israel, and the colonial , genocidal US and UK.
There is no such thing as an independent Islamic Caliphate. The sickest scam of all is the use of Islamist mercenaries to fight Muslim countries.
The logical conclusion to All of this Hydra tentacles of social and economic control is that the Muslim Brotherhood that funds Hamas is one of the Hydra’s tentacles. Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas are feeding the USUKIS’s colonisation of West Asia.
USUKIS is about to implement WW3, Israel against Islam, using the slogan of Netanyahu’s Ukrainian Nazism. The Jewish Cult of Talmudism is as expendable as ISIS was to the Oil thieving Atlantacists and their Jihadist playboys.
The obscenity is in their ability to surgically manage wars.

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 1 2024 9:52 utc | 106

The concentration camps theme is a new iteration of what Jeff Halper described as “warehousing the surplus people”. If extermination is too unattractive and expelling is too hard to accomplish there is always minimizing the footprint, being the social, economical, political , human footprint of the surplus people. Store them somewhere compact and out of the way so you can act like they don’t exist.
https://icahd.org/2019/05/23/the-palestinians-warehousing-a-surplus-people/

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Jul 1 2024 10:23 utc | 107

Hey hasbarats- packed your bags yet – this acceleration down the slope to extinction of the impalausible imperial outpost is daily faster and if you believe otherwise … well one can’t do much to save them who don’t want to be …
Hey actual barflies , happy first of July to all who are here.
On the subject of b’s post i have to recall that well … it was the Brits who did invent the concentration camp and used it in South Africa against the Boers.
They too weren’t altogether innocent in their exterminations of the native peoples.
As did the all our Euro cousins as we played pass the parcel of being in the Colonisation Chair … so it is no surprise the Nazi Final Solution is yet again being resorted to by the active participants of the Holocaust Memory, as Zionazis themselves are.
They are wholly supported by the governments of the Collective Waste as the Final Act in multi-centuries of Imperialist mass murder under the various Anglo European Nation States- in their punitive collective Final Colonisation of the Illegal Apartheid Entity- which was only really given its Frankenstein Monster life in response to the failure to destroy and take the Soviet Union in that WW2.
Created from various stolen body parts and a brain that was a psychopathic murderers …Mary Shelley it seems was prescient and wrote of the illegal Apartheid Entity!!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 1 2024 10:52 utc | 108

…it was the Brits who did invent the concentration camp and used it in South Africa against the Boers.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 1 2024 10:52 utc | 109

Did the British invent the ‘Concentration Camp’?
The straight answer is; No.
The actual term ‘concentration camp’ was invented by the Spanish (as campo de concentración or campo de reconcentración) in 1896 – three years before the 2nd Anglo-Boer War (1899 – 1904) started. It originated during The Cuban War of Independence (Guerra de Independencia cubana, 1895–98) was the last of three liberation wars that Cuba fought against Spain.
A rebellion had broken out in Cuba, then a Spanish colony in 1895. The rebels, outnumbered by Spanish government troops, turned to guerrilla warfare (and here another myth which says the Boers invented ‘guerrilla warfare’ is debunked).

More here if interested.
“Debunking the myth that the British invented the ‘concentration camp’”
https://samilhistory.com/2018/12/07/debunking-the-myth-that-the-british-invented-the-concentration-camp/
Sorry O/T but facts are facts.

Posted by: Walt | Jul 1 2024 11:23 utc | 109

Nicely put DunGroanin @ 109.
I was thinking of mentioning S Africa as a comparuson as well. After apartite the west came back and oppressed SA again with Banks curupting ANC politicans and buseness.
I would to an extent agee with Giyane but would be very reluctent to beleave any western conection to Hamas, that thought sticks in my craw. After all Hamas’s action speak louder than words. When it comes to back bone only Putin is comparble.
Hamas are legedary.
Saudi in my thinung seems similar to Turkey a desire to distance from the west but circumstnce dictates what they can and cannot do.
This has all been said but is at this very momment very urgent to understand. how will these countrys and all the overs react when the shit hits the fan with Hezbulah Lebanan.
Respect.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 11:28 utc | 110

…it was the Brits who did invent the concentration camp and used it in South Africa against the Boers.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 1 2024 10:52 utc | 109
Did the British invent the ‘Concentration Camp’?
The straight answer is; No.
The actual term ‘concentration camp’ was invented by the Spanish (as campo de concentración or campo de reconcentración) in 1896 – three years before the 2nd Anglo-Boer War (1899 – 1904) started. It originated during The Cuban War of Independence (Guerra de Independencia cubana, 1895–98) was the last of three liberation wars that Cuba fought against Spain.
A rebellion had broken out in Cuba, then a Spanish colony in 1895. The rebels, outnumbered by Spanish government troops, turned to guerrilla warfare (and here another myth which says the Boers invented ‘guerrilla warfare’ is debunked).
More here if interested.
“Debunking the myth that the British invented the ‘concentration camp’”
https://samilhistory.com/2018/12/07/debunking-the-myth-that-the-british-invented-the-concentration-camp/
Sorry O/T but facts are facts.
Posted by: Walt | Jul 1 2024 11:23 utc | 110
I disagree.
DunGroanin could simply amend his statement by saying,”it was the Brits who led the employed first successful concentration camp strategy ‘ as the former ‘first concentration camp’, 5 years earlier in Cuba by Spanish forces Spain were unsuccessful.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 11:31 utc | 111

DunGroanin could simply amend his statement by saying,”it was the Brits who led the employed first successful concentration camp strategy ‘ as the former ‘first concentration camp’, 5 years earlier in Cuba by Spanish forces Spain were unsuccessful.
Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 11:31 utc | 112
Yes, but he didn’t.

Posted by: Walt | Jul 1 2024 11:32 utc | 112

Walt @ 110
Ha ha ha theirs some cleaver pepole on this site, and you are one of them and may i say with credabilty.
Respect

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 11:37 utc | 113

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned but what has been the reaction of the Palestinian Authority to what looks like the defacto annexation of the West Bank? The PA of course is a corrupt Vichy regime but I’m sure this would put them in a very awkward position.Have they had any reaction to Smotrich’s move?

Posted by: Kate the Skate | Jul 1 2024 11:38 utc | 114

Sorry for typos am out in bright sun, will put mobile phone down.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 11:44 utc | 115

DunGroanin could simply amend his statement by saying,”it was the Brits who led the employed first successful concentration camp strategy ‘ as the former ‘first concentration camp’, 5 years earlier in Cuba by Spanish forces Spain were unsuccessful.
Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 11:31 utc | 112
Yes, but he didn’t.
Posted by: Walt | Jul 1 2024 11:32 utc | 113
The Spanish model/use of ‘concentration camps was not successful-so the Spanish model for ‘successful concentration camps’ does not apply so the ‘first’ concentration camp was a dismal failure so the Brits South Africa CC became the CC model used today; your pettiness is tiresome.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 12:03 utc | 116

…your pettiness is tiresome.
Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 12:03 utc | 117
And you “disagree” with a statement of fact, and agree with something he did not say.
Your grasp of logic is tenuous.

Posted by: Walt | Jul 1 2024 12:15 utc | 117

Even on this forum; even among long-time participants who are supposedly red-pilled; the nature of the wars in Europe and the nature of zionism are STILL not fully understood.
The same applies to the Judge Napolitano-St. John Mearsheimer – Larry Johnson etc. cast.
No, fanto (#39 @18:21), it is not so much that “times have changed” it is rather that the nature of truth-telling has “changed;” lying about even the most consequential of matters has been normalized, the Julian Assange case is not an isolated phenomenon it is the very atmosphere in which the majority of populations have lived for more than a century.
Germany was destroyed in furtherance of the zionist project, envisioned and executed by the same Betar as BenGvir is activating today (Poli @ 15:33). Those violence-prone thugs were led by lionized Jewish saints such as Louis Brandeis; British saints Churchill and Arthur Harris; USAmerican saints FDR, Ike, “the Mighty Eighth army-air force that boasts a museum celebrating its firebombing to dust 70% of Germany (for a small fee your daughter can celebrate her sweet sixteen party in a hall that glorifies war crimes https://www.mightyeighth.org/ ).
Any person who uses “Nazi” as an epithet and a comparative to zionist barbarity is still breathing that air and failing to recognize that it is poisoned.
I recall a Methodist preacher once who preached on “Quake the foundations.” I’m not sufficiently conversant with Bible to source that concept, but anyone who has renovated a structure knows (or comes to realize belatedly) that new walls that are plumb, square and level are impossible if the foundation is flawed. Zionist Israel was flawed from the get-go; it needs to be “de-zionized” as totally and harshly as Germany was (wrongfully) de-Nazified.
USA and UK similarly need to harshly and thoroughly examine and “Quake their foundations”.

Posted by: ChasMark | Jul 1 2024 12:24 utc | 118

..your pettiness is tiresome.
Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 12:03 utc | 117
And you “disagree” with a statement of fact, and agree with something he did not say.
Your grasp of logic is tenuous.
Posted by: Walt | Jul 1 2024 12:15 utc | 118
You don’t get the point. Maybe if I make it in a simpler form-a syllogism you will see the light:
Any ‘invention’ is not worth the term if the invention does not work or is unsuccessful .
The Spanish iteration of CC camps was unsuccessful (the rebels won)so it did not work,
So the CC model was not invented in 1895 in Cuba but in South Africa where in 1901 where the British CC model was successful.
END OF SUBJECT

Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 12:35 utc | 119

Poms sure did ‘consecration camp to the Boars ‘…be proud of the fact, you apologist in jest. What about the pleasant ones in Australia that got forgotten and got blamed on ‘Religious Hollyday Camps ‘? Poms taught Yanks a thing or two about tricking Red Indians into relocation too. I smell the guilty blood of a once giant Englishman, who now quiver to those that own and run the Empire’s Blackened and mortgaged soul. Your apprentices in Palestine and Ukraine are thriving ,now off leash. Be proud that Freemason slaved their beliefs , and why the Shit House of David came from your ill wind . You now even struggle to win at those games you invented.

Posted by: Paleologos | Jul 1 2024 12:36 utc | 120

Another one of Ben Gvir’s wacky tricks- those Betar Yerushalim police are targeting the medics and doctors at the protests.
Beating, year gas, one threatened to rape their mother.
This entire Israel SMO thing is much more about the religious crazies defeating the secular Israelis than anything to do with Arabs, or resources.
The Shoah Aza is a show.

Posted by: Polli | Jul 1 2024 12:39 utc | 121

Lloyd Austin for President.
@Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 30 2024 19:30 utc | 54
(that was me talking not Sunny)
I slipped! I should have followed your lead because that was it!
Background for those barflies just tuning in:

Posted by: librul | Jul 1 2024 12:47 utc | 122

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 3:17 utc | 86
Wayback has it.
Not likely jab related. Massie apparently onto the reality of the jabs.
. . .
Posted by: Mary | Jul 1 2024 8:11 utc | 102
===================
I got a 404 message, but very interesting if Massie was on to the jab scam. Of course that doesn’t mean that his wife didn’t have one. Also doesn’t mean much since we are not getting any info. If it was potentially jab-related (i.e., coronary, stroke). . . . Well, it is all random speculation.
But to me, personally, it seems strange that three weeks after I first become aware of Massie, the second mention is: suddenly dead wife!

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 12:52 utc | 123

@ Walt
@ canuck
Please don’t reply to one another again. If interested, people can judge for themselves whom or what to believe and who’s being disruptive.

Posted by: despondent | Jul 1 2024 12:59 utc | 124

@ Walt
@ canuck
“Please don’t reply to one another again. If interested, people can judge for themselves whom or what to believe and who’s being disruptive.”
Posted by: despondent Karen | Jul 1 2024 12:59 utc | 125
Who died and made you God?
This is b’s business to curate the blog , not yours-your Kareness is showing; and what do you not get by my, “End of Subject”.
Jeez!
Walt is tiresome, you are exasperating.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 13:15 utc | 125

There was no collaboration between HAMAS and Israel on October 7.
Despite the constant OCD ruminations of posters like `librul`,
or the conspiratorial analytics of thinkers like Brian Berletic:
There were no hidden meetings between mossad and Hamas in the tunnels of Gaza.
Or heated planning sessions between Haniyeh and Galant around a map in Qatar.
No careful phone calls between The Strip and Tel Aviv discussing flight paths of Para Gliders.
Iran, Hezbollah did not supply tactics, weapons, trainers tailored to fit into an Israeli Plan.
And HAMAS alone could not have achieved 7 October by simply collaborating with Mossad.
Perhaps they’re all in on it? Iran, Hezbollah, Mossad, Ansarallah, CIA, Shin Bet …?
All jiving and vibing alongside each other in order to produce this greatest show on earth?
Nah.
The Palestinian Cause was on it’s death bed by 6 October 2023.
Gaza lay fading, forgotten, strangulating, starving in a cage.
The West Bank metamorphosing into the expanded version of Gaza.
‘Israel’ was on the brink of ‘normalizing’ with the Arab World.
HAMAS, short for “Palestinian Resistance”, had to do something.
Israel need merely await a sublimation of Palestinian Ghettoes.
The last thing ‘Israel’ needed was a breach of this status quo.
And then it happened:
HAMAS executed the one thing that would save it (and perhaps Palestine).
Israel, forced to respond to the one thing it needed least at the time.
Predictably the Zionists weren’t at their posts when they should’ve been.
Throughout history the arrogant occupier has always behaved this way:
Drunken revelry behind the fortress fences.
Then the guard forgets to bar the gate.
The natives, waiting nights and days,
seize their moment and storm the citadel.
And thus the invader falls …
“I was in DMZ area as 20 year old Marine when Tet occurred. Not much occurred in or around the DMZ and we had no reason to even suspect that something big had occurred. Hue, just to the South, got hammered, but even THAT didn’t affect us. We knew that Tet was supposed to be a “Time Out” type event, but we never relaxed during these mini “Truces”. We Enlisted Grunts never really cared about the Big Picture, just cared about survival and our fellow Marines. We DID expect Khe Sanh, Con Tien or even Dong Ha to be hit, but they weren’t. Gen Giap had fooled West … Again.” — Mike Mckenna

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 1 2024 13:40 utc | 126

Suppose for a moment you have three parties in the USA: Republicans, Democrats and one independent candidate, Trump. There’s primaries, where Trump ends up the favorite.
In those electoral districts where the Republicans are third place, the Republican candidate withdraws, and asks Republican voters to vote Democrat – anything except Trump. In those electoral districts where the Democrats are third place, the Democrat candidate withdraws, and asks Democrat voters to vote Republican – anything except Trump.
That’s the situation France is in: Right, Left, and Le Pen.

Posted by: Passerby | Jul 1 2024 13:47 utc | 127

The English government is trying to thwart Lebanon’s Hezbollah and Nasrallah fighters by further backing the Lebanese army and police forces, over eighty English military flights have landed in Beirut, the plan appears to be to try and negate those fighting against the Zionists and their genocide.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/uk-has-sent-74-war-planes-from-cyprus-to-lebanon-since-march/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jul 1 2024 14:00 utc | 128

Republicofscotland | Jul 1 2024 14:00 utc | 130
*** The English government is trying to thwart Lebanon’s Hezbollah and Nasrallah fighters by further backing the Lebanese army and police forces, over eighty English military flights have landed in Beirut, the plan appears to be to try and negate those fighting against the Zionists and their genocide.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/uk-has-sent-74-war-planes-from-cyprus-to-lebanon-since-march/ ***
It has become all too clear over the past months, that the red wrist-band worn by soon to be former Prime Minister Sunak really is is Kabbalistic — no matter what alternative reason was earlier claimed.
Just how much treason can the political establishment get away with, before most of the British public finally wake up (too late) to the fact they are being betrayed and deliberately destroyed by those who rule?

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 1 2024 14:14 utc | 129

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/haredim-protest-ultra-orthodox-draft–clash-with-israeli-pol
Israel may indeed be doomed. The baby making bums are fanatics who won’t fight and expect to be supported. Meanwhile, the secular/Labour types may be quitting the army – and emigrating. Crazy as it seems, if these trends go on ( and I think there is every reason to think they will)the result could be a pretty awful one state solution, possibly coupled with a blood bath of fanatical settlers and Palestinians. Whoever’s left gets to claim victory.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 1 2024 14:33 utc | 130

/cheep cheep
I know it’s challenging to hold our tongues to people we feel slight us, and hard to put messages in the proper place even though they will be way further down the page and possibly missed…
But given our host is healing and needs to lean on us now, let us do the goodly act of forbearance and do these things anyway. 🙂 Thanks!
/cheep
/flies away

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 1 2024 14:49 utc | 131

Sorry O/T.
I am trying to come-up with a “phoenetic alphabet” for general use.
The NATO alphabet irks me.
I have a concept, looking for help.
Should be not political and not sensational.
Aristotle
Bach / Beethoven
Christ
D
Edison / Einstein
F
G
H
I
J
Kant
L
Moses / Mohammed
Newton
Orwell
Pythagorias
Q
R
Socrates
Tao / Tchaikovsky
U
Vonnegut
W
X
Y
Z
I suspect I am beginning to suffer from same condition as Biden – difficulty to recall information on demand. I feel like it accelerated after having Covid a few times. Anyway, so it is had to populate list.

Posted by: jared | Jul 1 2024 15:03 utc | 132

@ Lavrov’s Favourite
I haven’t followed enough of your conversations with him. He’ll probably react to this as “patronizing” but there’s no other way for me mention this: Maybe he’s experiencing some stress in his personal life and it’s causing him to act this way. So, despite my struggles controlling my lizard brain, I’m trying not to react venomously. Partly it’s self-interest: Because he usually contributes interesting information, I prefer he not inadvertently convince me to start loathing his alias and skipping his comments.
If I may say so though, Lavrov, I would like to ask that you please chill a little too! (I’ve been reading your comments ever since your name started appearing. My vague recollection is that your comments over the past few days have been a tad acerbic.). I admit I’m a hypocrite and that my advice is easier said than applied. It’s especially easy for lurkers like me to remain relatively detached. (Usually, I speak up only to express my inner Karen. lol.). For regular contributors, it’s hard not to end up in heated exchanges. So, “I get it”. But, it makes for harder reading for everyone else and it surely frustrates and angers you and canuck, too. Can’t be good for anyone’s health! Also, if it continues, b might ban people involved (including good contributors).
To avoid further rambling, I’ll end this comment now like “Kevin” of “Inside China Business”: “Be good.” 😉

Posted by: despondent | Jul 1 2024 15:15 utc | 133

Jun 28, 2024 – Breaking Defense
In Northern Israel, emptied villages and talk of war in Lebanon

Kiryat Shmona — On Oct. 20, a week and a half after Hamas launched its attack on Israel, 24,000 residents were evacuated from the city of Kiryat Shmona, located along the northern border with Lebanon. And they weren’t alone: Two dozen smaller communities were also evacuated over fears that Hezbollah, an Iranian-backed terrorist group, would launch an attack similar to Hamas.
In total, 80,000 people left their homes. Today around 50,000 remain evacuated, living in Israeli hotels or other communities, receiving some government support — but unsure when, or if, they will ever feel safe to return home. And events of the last few weeks have done little to raise spirits.
Breaking Defense spent June 23 and 24 in the region, speaking to a mix of Israel Defense Forces officers, experts and security officials from the communities. The consensus is that a conflict with Hezbollah is more realistic today than at any point since the Oct. 7 attacks, and there is acknowledgement that such a conflict would be difficult in a way the Gaza operation has not been. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2024 15:16 utc | 134

Don Bacon | Jul 1 2024 15:16 utc | 138
[from MORE]:

“in recent talks in Washington. Israel is facing what Defense Minister Yoav Gallant this week called a “crossroads,” as he led a large delegation from his ministry to discussions in Washington.
… As a sign of how serious the situation is, Gallant has held meeting with presidential advisors Amos Hochstein and Brett McGurk, as well as US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin.

not quite a minyan.

Posted by: ChasMark | Jul 1 2024 15:33 utc | 135

@ jared | Jul 1 2024 15:03 utc | 136
That’s nonsense — take it somewhere else.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2024 15:36 utc | 136

The US Navy is busy.. .headlines
–U.S., Japan and Korea Begin Freedom Edge Exercise
–Carrier USS Carl Vinson, International Warships Arrive in Hawaii for RIMPAC 2024 – The United States Navy and 28 partner nations will begin the 29th biennial Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2024 exercise
>USS Dwight D. Eisenhower Now in the Med, USS Theodore Roosevelt Heads to the Middle East
>Big deck amphibious warship USS Wasp (LHD-1) passed through the Strait of Gibraltar on Wednesday and is now operating in the Mediterranean Sea

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2024 15:48 utc | 137

Lets remember for consideration …
Iran stated if Hezbula / Lebanan was atacked by israel, Iran would become envolved.
Also that Vladimir Putin stated a while back…
Russia views Iran as a close allie and “any attack on Iran would be viewed as an attack on Russia.”
Also a concerted attack on Lebanan may be an attempt to draw fire from Ukraine who are becoming a major western embarisment.
Along with the swing to the far right in Europe, we will all be dead within a year.
So lets keep sereous and forget the mind games by commenters its not a sport or a cozy chit chat site its exestential geo politics.
“Were not waving but drowning.”

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 15:53 utc | 138

It’s been enervating to read this site today, primarily because of the ongoing pissing-contest going on with accusations and counter-accusations…on a personal level…going on and on.
Okay, so a bar-room does necessarily have disagreements and sometimes ones with jagged edges. I’m certainly not running things here and b. is a hero for restoring the site after dealing with serious personal issues.
Perhaps there could be a limit placed on back and forth sniping. For starters, perhaps a standard debate format might be used, where each party in the dispute has either two or three chances for rebuttals. After those stated rules, any/every individual in the snarking guilty of carrying on and on and only pushing primarily personal issues instead of topical realism…would get a 30 day suspension.
A smidgen of personal invective could possibly add spice to the tenor of this scene. However, when pissing contests go on and on and on and on…the rights of everyone else are being violated.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 1 2024 15:55 utc | 139

@Posted by: aristodemos | Jul 1 2024 15:55 utc | 143
hmm…why are bar flies doing this? b is in recovery mode from a serious operation,
he does not need unnecessary agitation from needless feuding.
Have some respect
In fact, someone tried to escalate the feuding here by making straw man arguments against me.
I am just (for now) going to let be.

Posted by: librul | Jul 1 2024 16:12 utc | 140

let it be

Posted by: librul | Jul 1 2024 16:12 utc | 141

The extent of the victimization being displayed by Lavrov and public disruption of MOA during b’s recovery, indicates that in fact, Lavrov is the bigger narcissist, by a longshot. Although callous, I dont see an excessive amount of victimization coming from Canuk, who seems like a person that gives and takes punches.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jul 1 2024 16:30 utc | 142

“X Y Z”
Posted by: jared | Jul 1 2024 15:03 utc | 136
How about Gödel?
Gödel on WikiP
“Kurt Friedrich Gödel (/ˈɡɜːrdəl/ GUR-dəl,[2] German: [kʊʁt ˈɡøːdl̩] ⓘ; April 28, 1906 – January 14, 1978) was a logician, mathematician, and philosopher.
Considered along with Aristotle and Gottlob Frege to be one of the most significant logicians in history, Gödel profoundly influenced scientific and philosophical thinking in the 20th century”
He famously proved that all mathematical systems of sufficient complexity can generate contradictions. In other words he broke mathematics.
Or perhaps Gandhi?

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 1 2024 16:46 utc | 143

Our host is recovering from extensive surgery while he keeps this excellent blog going …
please refrain from slinging mud at each other … out of respect to our host, if no other reason motivates…

Posted by: crone | Jul 1 2024 16:51 utc | 144

@ David G Horsman | Jul 1 2024 16:46 utc | 147
> Gödel famously proved that all mathematical systems of sufficient complexity
> can generate contradictions. In other words he broke mathematics.
Wall Street: “Hold my beer.”

Posted by: despondent | Jul 1 2024 16:58 utc | 145

“In fact, someone tried to escalate the feuding here by making straw man arguments against me.
I am just (for now) going to let be.”
Posted by: librul | Jul 1 2024 16:12 utc | 144
I completely agree with your sentiments. I did actually catch that straw man but what’s indeed Let It Be.
And to repeat:
“hmm…why are bar flies doing this? b is in recovery mode from a serious operation,
he does not need unnecessary agitation from needless feuding.”

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jul 1 2024 16:59 utc | 146

@ canuck | Jul 1 2024 12:35 utc | 120
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Indian_Removal_Act
That nice Mr Andrew Jackson invented concentration camps in the 1830s to ethnically cleanse the Cherokee. Do your homework.

Posted by: Squeeth | Jul 1 2024 17:05 utc | 147

Well said @Squeeth. There are no “good” men of power. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Posted by: Dingleberry | Jul 1 2024 17:10 utc | 148

The Spanish iteration of CC camps was unsuccessful (the rebels won)so it did not work,
So the CC model was not invented in 1895 in Cuba but in South Africa where in 1901 where the British CC model was successful.
END OF SUBJECT
Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 12:35 utc | 120
NOPE the spanish CC system invented by the spanish general Valeriano Weiler in 1895 in Cuba was much less bloody than the British one and was so succesful that the yankees had to sink The Maine themselves (false flag) to declare the war on Spain and save the insurgency that by 1898 was crushed.
The brits copy paste with more brutality knowing that there were any powerful country that could intervene to help the Boers, so they genocided a good chunk of population and won.

Posted by: DFC | Jul 1 2024 17:11 utc | 149

Relevant to the future of US support to the Zionist assault on the Palestinians:
Biden argued Hamas is the one keeping a deal from being reached, something Trump disputed.
“Israel is the one. And you should let them go and let them go finish the job. He doesn’t want to do it,” Trump said.

Supporting Trump or RFKjr is opposing the Palestians even more than supporting Biden.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 1 2024 17:38 utc | 150

Walt Walt Walt …I’d call you a hasbarat, if I didn’t think better, for diverting the thrust of my comment and this thread, with the neat sidestep into that nitpicking cat skinnery.
I agree I should have said ‘who perhaps apocryphally invented .. ‘
But it was certainly not the main point of my opinion if you missed that.
So let me make it plain – Fuck the Zionazis everywhere.
Regardless of whatever religion or not.
End their Zionazi enclave they insist on expanding.
There will be – A free Palestine and The Levant from Rivers to Seas.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 1 2024 17:54 utc | 151

In total, 80,000 people left their homes. Today around 50,000 remain evacuated, living in Israeli hotels or other communities, . . .
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2024 15:16 utc | 138
========
Poetic justice: Palestinians “squat” these Zio “homes.”
Maybe there is some food left in the cubboards.

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 18:29 utc | 152

The original purpose of a Zionist State was to give Britain a base from which to exploit Oil in West Asia.
The original intention was to create a division between Arabs and Jews, which the British could and does exploit.
The added complexity of an Iran – Israel conflict is a smokescreen for, like all the smokescreenS in Ukraine about Zaporizhe Nuclear PP.
The original, colonial plan is still being followed, and all the rest is bluff. Ukraine and West Asia are being flooded with weaponry , like
Syria and Libya wishbone sole purpose of USUK to lay waste to West Asia, this time offering Jewish fundamentalist terror Asia diversion instead of Islamist , which was anyway supplied by Israel and funded by Saudi Arabia .
Britain and the US are likely magicians lulling their audiences with tricks: The desperation of the Palestinians, the sabre-rattling of Bosom pals Israel and Iran, concentration camps, Nazism , escalation. But at the end of the day this is what colonial expansion looks like. KAIDA SHAYTANA DHA’EEFAH
The devil’s plan is weak.
The world must stop USUKIS colonial expansion , whatever it takes.

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 1 2024 18:30 utc | 153

“please refrain from slinging mud at each other … out of respect to our host, if no other reason motivates…” crone@16:51 utc | 148
I agree completely. It is clear to me that many of the more abusive sniping comes from trolls who are commissioned to disrupt serious discussions on important issues.
This has been a problem on the blog for a long time but in recent weeks- for reasons which are quite obvious- the opportunity to wreck both the discussions and the generous soul who sponsors them and has done for more than a decade, has prompted malignant forces into overdrive.
For my own part while I follow b’s posts I have found the comments unusually repellent, at a time when respect and sympathy ought to have brought about an ‘era of good feeling’ and generosity.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 1 2024 18:39 utc | 154

READ HERE: Imagine you speak out against Israel, then suddenly your wife dies, and then Jews start telling you to reconsider your stance on Israel. Well, that just happened to Rep. Thomas Massie.
Submitted by The Conspiracy Realist
SOTN Exclusive
First read this:
Rep. Thomas Massie tells Tucker Carlson every GOP
member of Congress has an ‘AIPAC babysitter’
That extraordinarily revealing yet fateful interview between Thomas Massie and Tucker Carlson took place on June 7, 2024.
https://stateofthenation.co/?p=235946#more-235946

Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | Jul 1 2024 18:56 utc | 155

A noteworthy front-page article in 7 Israel National News:
Netanyahu: ‘We’re approaching end of stage of eliminating Hamas army’
July 1, 2024, https://t.ly/2pvCE

Prime Minister Netanyahu said to the cadets: “I returned yesterday from a visit to the Gaza Division. I saw very considerable achievements in the fighting being carried in Rafah. We are advancing to the end of the stage of eliminating the Hamas terrorist army; we will continue striking its remnants.”

However, the comments are most telling:

“I am unsure if I should be laughing or crying, this is just so insane.”
“Yea right. This is Israel’s way to stop from escalating against Hezbollah.”
“Is this the way military works, they give a set date that runs into months, they say Hamas is at its end, yet Hamas doesn’t seem to think so, they still running rampant. And on and on it goes …”
“I imagine it will only be a matter of time, before all of Israel no longer sees the muslims, or the Israeli left, or the influence of america. All that will be left, are the Israeli officials who are betraying the security of the people of Israel …”
“i’ll believe it when i feel it…”
“Hamas has completely infiltrated Palestinian controlled enclaves throughout Samaria and Eastern Jerusalem.”
“Is this the final downfall? So much lies it’s scary and on the other side of the spectrum they are ready to give the keys of the kingdom to the Islamic/Nazis …”

Collective guilt masquerading as despair? Perhaps …

Posted by: HeyHeyHey | Jul 1 2024 19:25 utc | 156

In an evening and morning I bookmark five or ten items (news etc.) , afternoon I try to catch up here , and then later post after a reflecting a little.
The pace of recent events stands out now, already by afternoon previous items are not so relevant. I will try to link some later but off the bat:
Increasing amount of countries advise to leave Lebanon.
Eastern Rafah told to evacuate.
“Israel” direction in Gaza is towards targeting from air and pulling back ground troops.
“Israel” troop movements towards Lebanon border.
Rafah crossing wrecked by “Israel”
Gulf states de-designate Hezbollah as terrorist.
Russia admonishes “Israel” for patriot missile transfer to Ukraine.
US bases across europe on hightened alert.
Media concensus is invasion of Lebanon unavoidable.
@slithery previously, thanks for note on Kuwait. Caught up with that and might post an overview sometime.
@giyane pretty much as I see it for top of page description ( edit in – the later pov I differ to a degree because pre-existing anonimity between Arab states is from before and for real), but it is not that straightforward either. E.g. Hamas fighters on the ground are not necessarily aware of how money finds its way etc. , or MBS and KSA have hands tied in various ways (e.g. their position in world economy as managed by the west, if they do oil embargo they will be replaced, little trust of Iran or Russia etc. etc. ) . Popular sentiment is also different on various themes , often silenced.
@Mark2 the “far right” in europe are pretty much co-opted or sold out to EU, politics has gone towards hung parliaments and neutered technocraric minority governments. Le Pen’s father yes was well to the right, M Le Pen is a diluted form of further right based on various ideals, whereas UMP previously was more Atlantic statist . To have nationalism at the forefront though is to pull the various facets into a coherent direction or presentation, so it is possible future confrontation with the left will move towards a more extreme reply. Micron is a pet Sarkozi.
Like titmouse, be good to each other.
Consider, incivility or superfluous criticism is just small, people being killed outside and all we can come up with is to get at each other ? You think that will sort anything out ? Other readers then also have to make the extra effort of trying to talk and listen through the noise.
It’s a difficult time for many, but be good to each other.

Posted by: Ornot | Jul 1 2024 19:30 utc | 157

Posted by: bevin | Jul 1 2024 18:39 utc | 158
Well said. And for once I find myself siding with Canuck on this one since he was simply nuancing a point rather than trying to score a ‘gotcha’ with factoids.
There is something more to it as well. We are living through the slow motion train wreck of collapsing historical capitalism. As others here have reminded me, Gramsci called such emerging transition phases ‘a time of monsters’. Manners, courtesies, politeness, and other daily rituals of sociality are being abandoned everywhere as fear grips us. The scale of the iceberg is dawning on us—not just the iceberg hitting our Titanic, but the realization that the Titanic and the iceberg are identical, one wrecking ball smashing into another. The great western middle classes, created by WW2 and the Keynesian social democratic New Deals of the post-war consensus, are being uncreated. From proletarian to working-class, working-class to middle-class, there is a pattern of forgetfulness mixed with aspiration. The boomers are its apotheosis and they will not let go for dear life (Biden is their hero, a senile 60s Ajax). They never imagined history could go the other way because, after all, development, evolution and progress ain’t supposed to work like that! But here we are: the middle class are being dissolved in the aqua regia of history, subjected to the Trennung of capitalism, being broken up into constituent atoms to become the floating detritus of the ruin of the good ship ‘Liberal Democracy’.
And so people are angry. But they lack an explanation. Because they didn’t read their Marx carefully. And thus we enter a time of monsters.

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 1 2024 19:40 utc | 158

From Telegram:
Turkish authorities refused to refuel the Israeli El Al airplane, that made an emergency landing in Antalya, Türkiye today. The plane is now flying to Rhodes, Greece to refuel before it can fly to Israel.
Raddar | Jun 30 2024 16:53 utc | 31
If the plane needed an “emergency landing” because it was low on fuel, how did it have enough to take off again and fly to Greece, when Israel was closer?
On Google map, there is 3.5 cm from Antalya to Rhodes (city & airport), while 9.5 cm to Jerusalem (and the airport). Antalya is also closer to Rhodes than to Cyprus.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 1 2024 19:48 utc | 159

Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | Jul 1 2024 18:56 utc | 159
Thank you. This is truly disheartening to read, and yes, the chances are extremely low that rep. Massie’s wife would just randomly succumb to something in just few weeks or even months. Mossad is truly loathsome and its HQ needs to be nuked…

Posted by: Boo | Jul 1 2024 20:12 utc | 160

All the countries in the region should send in their militias. This is their chance to reverse all the wrongs of the Western decisions on the Mmiddle East. The Zionists have no conscience when come to killing innocents so a reciprocal response is therefore justified. Anyone who cannot live as equals with the regions inhabitants should leave. Most will come to the US, which may soon be the last bastion for Zionism.

Posted by: Thurl | Jul 1 2024 20:26 utc | 161

@ David G Horsman | Jul 1 2024 16:46 utc | 147
> Gödel famously proved that all mathematical systems of sufficient complexity
> can generate contradictions. In other words he broke mathematics.
Wall Street: “Hold my beer.”
Posted by: despondent | Jul 1 2024 16:58 utc | 149
Hippias of Elis, a Pythagorean in southern Italy at the Pythagorean school in the 5th century BC, discovered calculus which destroyed the Pythagorean theory; staunch Pythagoreans took Hippias out for a cruise in the Mediterranean and drowned him
About 2,250 years later Leibniz/Newton ( my bet is on Leibniz, who knows?) discovered calculus again.
I wonder sometimes how much more advanced our science would be today if Hippias had lived and was heralded then rather than assassinated?

Posted by: canuck | Jul 1 2024 20:34 utc | 162

According to Middle east Eye, reports from Germany (Bild) say Israel’s ground operation against Lebanon is set for 3rd or 4th week of July.
The ever disingenuous Sec State Blinken was at Brookings earlier today. He acknowledged Hezbollah had linked its activities to the continuing situation in Gaza, and then asserted that Hamas was entirely responsible for the lack of implementation of Biden’s cease-fire proposal. He claimed Hamas responded to the proposal by “attempting to impose new conditions, shifting their stance, reneging on previously agreed positions, and seeking more concessions.” Beyond blaming Hamas, Blinken also reiterated the US position that UNSC 1701’s instruction that Hezbollah must retreat to the Litani River – acknowledged by most everyone as highly unlikely – should guide the ongoing diplomacy with Lebanon. This will probably be the justification for US material support for Israel’s upcoming incursion: a never-implemented (by either side) Security Council Resolution from 2006 plus Hamas’ alleged refusal to support a ceasefire in Gaza.

Posted by: jayc | Jul 1 2024 20:40 utc | 163

I think people are waking up to the fact that it’s to late. The chance was there to be grasped the world dosent stop turning to wait for us to catch up. we had our chance to catch up, and blew it.
Its over make your peace with your family and value every day we have remaining.
Ironic that 2 weeks ago they were commerating dunkirk on the beach’s there. Now two weeks later pretty much all of Europe has flipped to far right fascism.
They make their own self interested psudo reality as they wish. The public group mind thanks to prolonged misinfomation is now mush and ‘they’know it.
Hence all the cognative disadence.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 20:49 utc | 164

.. And so people are angry. But they lack an explanation. Because they didn’t read their Marx carefully. And thus we enter a time of monsters.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 1 2024 19:40 utc | 162
People don’t read Marx fullstop.

Posted by: Ново З | Jul 1 2024 20:50 utc | 165

Noticed this from DFC@153 “… the yankees had to sink The Maine themselves (false flag) to declare the war on Spain and save the insurgency that by 1898 was crushed.” The US did not intervene to save the insurgents in Cuba, any more than they saved the insurgency in the Philippines. In both cases the US acted to finish off the insurgency and prevent independence. It took a major war in the Philippines, which became an official colony. Cuba became one of the earliest forms of neocolony, see Platt Amendment and the history of Guantanamo. Attributing honorable motive for wars in other countries, as opposed to wars of national liberation is doubtful.
The word guerrilla refers to the mass resistance against the French way back in 1807 on till Napoleon’s defeat. The Indian reservation (Canadian “reserve”) was a concentration camp policy without the name. But then, the ancient Assyrian empire would resettle parts of conquered populations, which bears a resemblance to my eyes.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 1 2024 20:52 utc | 166

Today’s Kessnet News (https://t.ly/-PsKG 7.1.24) includes some interesting remarks about “the failed Netanyahu government,” including this one:

MK Pnina Tameno Shete (National Unity Party) presented her parliamentary group’s motion: “There is a complete disconnect between the Government and the people. At this time, children are starting the summer vacation, while there are tens of thousands of children who have been displaced from their homes for nine months. For nine months, their routine of studies has not been a routine. Many of them don’t study at all. The Government fails time after time in giving them security in education, welfare, and healthcare. Jews cannot be refugees in the State of Israel, but that’s what is happening. The residents understand that there is no victory, no strategy, and no plan for their return home.”

It may be that Prime Minister Netanyahu is caught between a rock and a hard place. If “Israel” doesn’t attack Hezbollah, there may be an insurrection. If they attack, they may be defeated. Does this explain their hesitation? Maybe.

Posted by: HeyHeyHey | Jul 1 2024 20:54 utc | 167

@ canuck | Jul 1 2024 20:34 utc | 166
Wow! And thanks.
Stinkypedia lacks info. Do you vaguely recall where you read this?

Posted by: despondent | Jul 1 2024 20:56 utc | 168

Can we but imagine viewing the news from France, and developments in Germany through Vladimir Putins eyes.
He’s expert on history. The US are about to turn Europe into rubble.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 21:12 utc | 169

Thank you Mary. This article on Rep. Massie’s wife reappeared on Burning Platform which stated it was originally from State of the Nation.

Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | Jul 1 2024 21:13 utc | 170

Posted by: jayc | Jul 1 2024 20:40 utc | 167
I dont see Dementia Joe and Jill’s clown car Presidency as having the fortitude for a real US war, against the wishes of half of November’s Democrat voters, that would be necessary to bail out Netanyahu and his Zionists from Hezbollah’s missile barrages.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jul 1 2024 21:27 utc | 171

“This is entirely prompted by the genocide in Gaza,” Craig [Murray] says of his parliamentary campaign. “I wouldn’t have come back were it not for the genocide in Gaza. Starmer’s attitude to the genocide in Gaza reminds me of Straw’s attitude to torture, extraordinary rendition and the Iraq war. The Labour Party is corrupt. It doesn’t stand for any of the principles the Labour Party is supposed to stand for.”
“Gaza represents the dislocation of the political class from the people,” he says. “The people want to stop it, certainly here in the U.K., but they have no leverage. The political class is no longer connected to the people. It is connected to the arms industry, to the lobbyists, particularly the Zionist lobby. That’s where the interests of the political class lie. They don’t care about the people. That’s true of both of the main parties. They suffer no hardship because there’s nobody else likely to be elected. Western democracy has become meaningless. The political class is homogeneous. All of them could move from one of the main parties to the other main party without changing anything. If we’re going to save democracy, we have to offer an actual democratic alternative. Gaza brought that home to people.”
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/craig-murrays-campaign-against-empire

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jul 1 2024 21:41 utc | 172

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 21:12 utc | 173
Putin’s expertise extends on a number of subjects, mostly technical-political, and history is not one. He studies various historical points in a per needed basis, but that is just about it. That is also why he has been, unfortunately, influenced by people like Malofeyev. Hence his sometimes surreal comments about Russia being on a victorious course in WWI, before upended by the revolution that apparently came out of nowhere.
But his greatest issue which affects his perception of history, his worldview and eventually some of his policy decisions is his perverse attachment to the neoliberal subhuman Boris Yeltsin, the greatest traitor in Russian and arguably all of the recorded human history. It is absolutely mind-numbing that there is a Boris Yeltsin Institute in the country, that even supporters of the President have had to tread carefully in the subject of the Traitor, as the case of Mikhalkov revealed. This also why he repeats the fallacy that the cause of the current mess wasn’t to be tracked down in Germany and Austria and now the Anglo-American regime, but Lenin.
The odd thing about this sordid state of affairs is that practically everyone who is positively predisposed towards VVP bases this attitude on Putin’s significant reversal of some of Yeltsin’s neoliberal policies. The only people who praise YEltsin nowadays are fanatical western Russophobes, the trash of the RF that constitute the liberast parade – all people in these groups hate Putin bitterly – and Putin himself. He seems unable to discard the complexes that were caused in the 90s when he served Yeltsin.

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 21:41 utc | 173

Posted by: stevnien t johnson | Jul 1 2024 17:38 utc | 154
There is zero difference between RFK Trump or Biden beyond the semantics of how they frame the bidding of the oligarchy. There will be no electoral solution as the system is corrupt all the way down to the municipal level of large towns of 50k people. Bought and sold with a militarized police and weaponized press to keep the masses in line.

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 1 2024 21:44 utc | 174

Constantine @ 177
I disagree.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 21:53 utc | 175

7s
·
How Turkiye bypasses its own Israel trade ban via Greece
Despite Ankara’s official ban on trade with Israel, data from May reveals ongoing commerce between the two states, with Greece likely acting as an intermediary to facilitate continued trade.
Suat Delgen
JUN 27, 2024
https://thecradle.co/articles/how-turkiye-bypasses-its-own-israel-trade-ban-via-greece
An examination of import and export data from the Turkish Exporters Assembly (TIM) and Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) for May 2024 reveals an interesting trend. Despite Turkiye’s official declaration of halting all trade with Israel, commerce between the two states appears to persist, with Greece potentially serving as an intermediary.

Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | Jul 1 2024 22:02 utc | 176

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 21:53 utc | 179
You can disagree all you want, but that won’t affect reality.

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 22:18 utc | 177

Constantine @ 183
I agree.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 22:25 utc | 178

khazhar chabad oded yinon policy mosaic law in action
i believe in london westminster will soon get a hollow cause ww2 museum cos that was the only shoah
will get a british gas genie energy kushner and trump towers ?

Posted by: todd | Jul 1 2024 22:31 utc | 179

badjoke@178 It’s not at all clear how towns less than 50k population can be free of corruption. Small towns in my experience just have smaller payoffs. If anything it’s the larger cities that are closer to free in a political sense, because no one clique of corruptionists can manage to exert control over such large areas. That’s one reason why political conservatives preach hatred of the city. Those same people seem to imagine the larger suburbs are like those mythical pure and decent small towns, too.
As to militarized police, small towns and rural counties aren’t very militarized, the budgets aren’t big enough. But the extensive and nigh pervasive corruption of the police forces I see serves the purposes of the wealthy very well indeed. Drug dealers in small towns are pretty much known to the local cops, but they don’t get busted. They’re rather closer to protected instead. Political conservatives exalt cops and very few liberals care about the corruption.
Although I would object that “zero” difference is an exaggeration, it’s true that as viewed in light of the substantive needs of the working classes, any differences are pretty hard to see. Such differences as there are pertain to which faction of the ruling class a candidate orients towards. For a simple example, Biden is far less likely to renew the massive tax breaks on the rich due to expire, in the name of stabilizing finances, to appease bankers worried about the dollar’s value, and to pay for the war on Russia. But Trump is far more likely to keep them and try to cut MedicAid, Medicare, SSI, Social Security, SNAP etc. and try to make Europeans pay for the war on Russia.
There’s not really much difference in our positions on the differences between Trump and Biden. What I’ve written here is closer to quibbling that a serious disagreement, I think. But there are numerous commenters convinced that Biden is far different, even though Biden has continued so many of Trump’s policies. And there are those who think Biden is a cultural catastrophe whereas Trump is the restoration of all that good and decent. So it seems to me that you might have more people to disagree with than me, especially since it’s not at all clear we’re very far apart.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 1 2024 22:41 utc | 180

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 1 2024 19:40 utc | 162
Nicely done. And it’s great to see a post here from bevin too.

Posted by: KMRIA | Jul 1 2024 22:42 utc | 181

Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 20:49 utc | 168
*** Ironic that 2 weeks ago they were commerating dunkirk on the beach’s there. Now two weeks later pretty much all of Europe has flipped to far right fascism.***
Like they were already cheering on for years in Ukraine and the Baltic states?
What the general public seem ignorantly blind to is that for the political establishment, the D-day celebration is really a celebration of European countries being turned into servants and ultimately disposable puppets of the (corporate/monopoly-capitalist) US-empire.
Perhaps if most of “the left” had kept a focus on Marxist economics instead of careering off into every political-correcter and wokist “-ism”, fad and fanatical anti-nationalism it could possibly think it thought of (more accurately, that the CIA and liberal psychological warfare specialists cooked up for it to become addicted to), most of the so-called “left” would not be in its present totally impractical, drivellingly unrealistic — and normal people alienating — mess.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 1 2024 22:44 utc | 182

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 22:25 utc | 182
There you have it. This is the spirit of human progress!

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 22:47 utc | 183

I see no reason at all to think Putin’s respect and indebtedness to Yeltsin is in any sense strange. They are very similar ideologically. Aside from being a drunk, the wild rush to expropriate public property under Yeltsin was absolutely required to quickly establish a bourgeois state. The need for some sort of stability so that the new oligarchs could enjoy their wealth without being swallowed up by another gangster oligarch came later, with Putin. But it’s the same project of restoring capitalism. All war economies are “socialist” because that’s more efficient and the need not to lose inflicts some sanity on economic policy. Putin’s sobriety is probably the biggest difference between him and Yeltsin.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jul 1 2024 22:48 utc | 184

And so people are angry. But they lack an explanation. Because they didn’t read their Marx carefully. And thus we enter a time of monsters.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 1 2024 19:40 utc | 162
=======
I haven’t read any Marx (lately).
I don’t wake up in the morning and say, “My god, another day on the train wreck of late capitalism.”
I wake up and say,”My god, another day of horror in Gaza/Palestine and the Ukraine. When will some army form up to liberate Palestine and Gaza? When will Putin declare a no-fly zone over the Black Sea?”
I think the honest and honorable posters at this blog are simultaneously in despair and incredulous at the horror playing out in Palestine.
If someone is angry about the train wreck of late capitalism, for heaven’s sake don’t take it out on other posters at this blog!

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 22:53 utc | 185

The only people who praise YEltsin nowadays are fanatical western Russophobes, the trash of the RF that constitute the liberast parade – all people in these groups hate Putin bitterly – and Putin himself. He seems unable to discard the complexes that were caused in the 90s when he served Yeltsin.
Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 21:41 utc | 177
==========
Isn’t it possible that what you perceive as reprehensible in Putin is just basic loyalty, on a personal level, to the man who named him, VVP, as his successor and gave him, VVP, the opportunity to use his skills, knowledge base, and commitment to serve Russia’s true interests?

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 23:02 utc | 186

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 1 2024 22:44 utc | 186
Agreed with most of your points. I would add that celebrations like that of D-Day and other WWII events are utilized for the purpose of virtue-signalling by the neoliberal elites that are pretty fascistic in their own right. Hence the treatment of Assange or the Yellow Vests, the validation of the assassination attempt against Fico (a leftist), the relentless defamation of Orban (a conservative), the effective rehabilitation of fascism under a proper guise and sugar-coating in Ukraine and the Baltic States etc.

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 23:05 utc | 187

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 22:53 utc | 189
Sweet Jane,
I love your sincerity, but Patroklos is not only an honest and honorable poster, he is one of our best here at MoA. To understand the present, you must understand what came before. We are living in very dangerous times and sometimes caution, while not always flashy, is the correct course. After all, a wrong move and we’re all toast.

Posted by: KMRIA | Jul 1 2024 23:07 utc | 188

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 1 2024 22:25 utc | 182
There you have it. This is the spirit of human progress!
Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 22:47 utc | 187
====================
I thought Mark2 was making a little joke, teasing . . .

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 23:08 utc | 189

Jane | Jul 1 2024 23:02 utc | 190
*** ** The only people who praise YEltsin nowadays are fanatical western Russophobes, the trash of the RF that constitute the liberast parade – all people in these groups hate Putin bitterly – and Putin himself. He seems unable to discard the complexes that were caused in the 90s when he served Yeltsin.
Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 21:41 utc | 177 **
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Isn’t it possible that what you perceive as reprehensible in Putin is just basic loyalty, on a personal level, to the man who named him, VVP, as his successor and gave him, VVP, the opportunity to use his skills, knowledge base, and commitment to serve Russia’s true interests? ***
Subscription to the agendas of the WEF and “western” economic orthodoxy — plus a residual desire to appease those who are (internally and externally) determined to destroy and loot the country — can not be regarded as serving Russia’s true interests in the longer term.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 1 2024 23:12 utc | 190

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 22:53 utc | 189
Sweet Jane,
I love your sincerity, but Patroklos is not only an honest and honorable poster, he is one of our best here at MoA. To understand the present, you must understand what came before. We are living in very dangerous times and sometimes caution, while not always flashy, is the correct course. After all, a wrong move and we’re all toast.
Posted by: KMRIA | Jul 1 2024 23:07 utc | 192
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Thanks, sweetie!
I love being told what to think and how to think and what I must understand and clearly do not as I obviously have never read any history and being called “sweet” by “sweet” and very serious people.

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 23:13 utc | 191

Posted by: Jane | Jul 1 2024 23:02 utc | 190
Just like your response to Patroklos about late-stage capitalism, this post is replete from disconnection to reality.
Yeltsin had a critical role in the dissolution of the USSR (an event that Putin habitually decries although for the wrong reasons), after a referendum where the popular majority voted for the preservation of the union. Afterwards, this scumbag proceeded to destroy Russia, turn the country into a post-apacalyptic gangland, a veritable bordello and a colony of the west. The term “meddling” that the liberal scum use for the concocted Russian involvement in the 2016 elections in the US does not begin to describe the level of subservience and subversion Russia was subjected to in the 90s.
Suffice to point out the cover of the TIME magazine in 1996, with the Traitor you with to lionize holding the US flag and the title “Yanks to the rescue”. To further rub it up, Hollywood gloated with a Jeffrey Goldblum film “Electing Boris”.They didn’t even bother to change the name.
And here you have the brazen temerity to suggest that the subhuman slimebag who led the Russian people (and indirectly. many others) to a neoliberal hellscape, somehow had the interests of the nation he had ruined at heart when he picked VVP as a successor. No “Jane”, he didn’t give a flying fuck about the countless millions he had destroyed. He was interested to secure the status of his degenerate family and his corrupt decadent associates, all of whom wanted to hold on their ill-gotten loot.
Worse, Putin didn’t even get any good will for his efforts as it was to be expected. Form Yelsin’s widow to all the liberal vermin who served the Traitor, all hate Putin for changing the course. Anatoly Chubais is by far the worst, despite all of Russia demanding his punishment in the interest of justice.
And justice should have been served. Chubais should have been rotting in a dungeon or working his ass in a penal colony, along with Khodorkovsky who was released by Putin solely to prove that he had a conciliatory attitude. Are you that privileged that youy cannot comprehend how ordinary people feel, actual patriots who had to go through the calvary of neoliberal policies and now see their own in a brutal war against Yeltsin’s masters and associates? Billions are taken off the country by disgusting parasites while the citizens struggle, but folks are supposed to feel grateful to Yeltsin? What kind of a sick jone is this?
It is truly sickening to assert that the worst traitor in the Russian history was remotely patriotic when all he did was look after his own skin and interests of his degenerate companions and kin. Putin’s complex cannot be justified on the grounds of loyalty; that should be reserved for his people only and not for treasonous scum. It is a psychological complex stemming from the fact that he served Yeltsin in the 90s, all the while fully realizing what needed to be done against the horrors that were taking place. His ascendancy had nothing to do with Yeltsin’s imagined patriotism, but with VVP’s successful handling of the subhuman, convincing the drunken, drooling biped that he would protect his associates once in the presidency.
And yet, it’s the very people whose interests Putin defended that have tried to subvert his position and the country as well. Why should he stick with them when they are trying to stick it to him and return Russia to colonial subservience too?

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 23:36 utc | 192

I apologize to all for getting out of the subject of the thread, but the issue touched is just too serious and the offence of suggesting that the arch-traitor Yeltsin was remotely interested in the good of the RF and its people goes too far. Especially after he proved in deeds his actual intentions to the fullest.
Now, we should revert to the subject of Palestine.

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 23:43 utc | 193

Posted by: KMRIA | Jul 1 2024 23:07 utc | 192
Many thanks! Power to you my friend, and to all the other MoA barflies. We’ll get there one day…
@Jane (with the Velvet Underground in my mind…), you are right too. Gaza and Ukraine, burning on the altar built from those ‘satanic mills’ of long ago…

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 1 2024 23:48 utc | 194

Yikes KMRIA what did you think you did there?
Let’s not start calling each other sweet or our drinks will be full of puke 😛
Genocide and WWIII is bad enough.
I mean imagine if I started called you “sweet KMRIA” 😀
I was going to quip about Cypriot beach-goers on vacation gawking at mushroom clouds on the horizon courtesy of “Israel” as if they were US nuclear tourists in Nevada in the 1950ies (and now I have) but things turned sweet! Are you trying to exorcise the bar or something? Rude :3
· · ·
(Pretty sure Putin knows Yeltsin much better than anyone here).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 1 2024 23:50 utc | 195

@despondent | Mon, 01 Jul 2024 20:56:00 GMT | 172

@ canuck | Jul 1 2024 20:34 utc | 166
Wow! And thanks.
Stinkypedia lacks info. Do you vaguely recall where you read this?

I do not believe the Pythagorean school was about to invent calculus, though I’ve heard it before – it might be a legend. They discovered the ‘irrationality’ of some numbers, which potentially implies the ‘real’ numbers continuum, but that is not quite the same as using limits to derive and integrate functions.
Btw, Newton had his law of gravitation ready, but didn’t publish for twenty years, as his theory would only allow the calculations for a point mass, whereas the planets are spherical extensions. He needed calculus to show that both behave the same …
The anecdotes also serve to show that maths often gets invented as it is needed, usually by physicists to describe their stuff.

Posted by: persiflo | Jul 1 2024 23:59 utc | 196

In my estimation… “The geo-political tectonic plates (copyright mark2) are onece again shifting in the Middle East, Europe and America. Sadly creating a large fissue down the middle of MOA, I feel sad for b in his current poor health and wish him a speedy recovery. I hope he continues this blog.
Dispite provocations from the trump faction. Identical to the provocation of Putin and palistine. Sad times.
Hammers looking for a nail. No difference between biden and trump.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 2 2024 0:15 utc | 197

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 1 2024 23:43 utc | 197
Everything is so very clear to you with your perfect 20/20 hindsight, isn’t it? It sounds like you think Russia would be better off if Putin, with perfect 20/20 foresight back in 1998 or so, would have come right out and called for the head of Yeltsin on a pike, stabbing the guy who elevated him into high position right in the back. Putin might not be alive today if he had done something like that. Nobody loves an ungrateful turncoat.

Posted by: Wisco | Jul 2 2024 0:24 utc | 198

Constantine
Who actualy mentioned Yeltsin certainaly not me. Or was that your straw man attempt to provoke me.
I’m not biting i thought i made that obveous.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 2 2024 0:28 utc | 199

@persiflo
for an amazing account of the invention of algebra (such as we know it) and the “language of mathematics,” see
https://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Thought-Origin-Algebra-Mathematics/dp/0486272893

Posted by: 123hop@comcast.net | Jul 2 2024 0:40 utc | 200