Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 22, 2024

Palestine Open Thread 2024-148

News & views related to the war in Palestine ...

Of interest:

Analysis | Endless War, Not 'Total Victory': IDF Wants to Leave Gaza, but Netanyahu Has Other Ideas (archived) - Haaretz

---

Hamas Is Winning - Foreign Affairs

Israel’s current strategy of heavy military operations may kill some Hamas fighters, but this strategy is only strengthening the bonds between Hamas and the local community. For nine months, Israel has pursued virtually unfettered military operations in Gaza, with little evident progress toward any of its objectives. Hamas is neither defeated nor on the verge of defeat, and its cause is more popular and its appeal stronger than before October 7. In the absence of a plan for the future of Gaza and the Palestinian people that Palestinians might accept, the terrorists will keep coming back and in larger numbers.
---

Israeli Official Describes Secret Government Bid to Cement Control of West Bank - New York Times

Israel’s Supreme Court has ruled that Israel’s rule over the territory amounts to a temporary military occupation overseen by army generals, not a permanent civilian annexation administered by Israeli civil servants.

Mr. Smotrich’s June 9 speech at a West Bank gathering may make that posture harder to maintain. In it, he outlined a carefully orchestrated program to take authority over the West Bank out of the hands of the Israeli military and turn it over to civilians working for Mr. Smotrich in the defense ministry. Parts of the plan have already been incrementally introduced over the past 18 months, and some authorities have already been transferred to civilians.

Posted by b on June 22, 2024 at 14:01 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

The goals of the Israeli government have changed, now they are
Keep Bibi out of jail
Destroy the Israeli wing
Increase worldwide antisemitism
Destroy the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank
Prevent an election

Posted by: Polli | Jun 22 2024 14:14 utc | 1

It is helpful to remind oneself of certain things.

Your experience is very likely similar to mine.
Anti-Genocide protests are heavily attended by Jewish anti-Genocide protestors.
"Heavily" is an understatement in my experience, that is, they participate well above their demographic proportion.

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 14:20 utc | 2

I don't believe that the NYT article makes some things clear.

Re: Bezalel Smotrich

Netanyahu empowered Smotrich

From Times Of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uae-envoy-de-facto-west-bank-annexation-unfolding-but-our-ability-to-stop-it-wanes/


Opponents of the government point to its advancement of a record number of settlement homes for construction, its moves to legalize roughly a dozen wildcat settler outposts, its streamlining of the settlement approval process and its transfer of control over civilian authorities in the West Bank to far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich as examples of a broader effort to annex the West Bank in practice even if Israel doesn’t formally implement such a move.

Also:


Netanyahu shelved plans to officially annex large parts of the West Bank in 2020 in exchange for normalizing relations with the UAE.

The countries involved in the Abraham Accords did not publicize it at the time, but Netanyahu’s commitment to not annex the West Bank was limited in duration. Days after the normalization agreement was announced in September 2020, three sources familiar with the negotiations told The Times of Israel that then-US president Donald Trump gave the UAE a commitment that Washington would not recognize any Israeli annexation move until 2024 at the earliest.

This Times of Israel article was published three weeks before October 7th.

It probably didn't tell the Palestinians anything that they didn't already know. The clock was ticking.
On October 7th the year 2024 was fast approaching and with it would come, most certainly, annexation.

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 14:42 utc | 3

"trustee"

I cannot find a good way to express in English the figure of the prisoner in whom the management trusts.

Palestinian ghettos of course have self-administration just as the Warsaw ghetto had self-administration.

The expression "Palestinian Authority" is a cruel Euphemism, which, of course, the European Pharisees love.

The Zionist regime is not 1 Civilized state because it does not recognize the population as Citizens

and, on the other hand, has been deceiving us for 45 years, together with Washington's cousins, about 2 states.

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 14:49 utc | 4

Almost all of us barflies (except for the trolls) have recognized who the bad guys are in this Zionist travesty. Each of us contributes in whatever way we can to inform each other and the world at large as to the different aspects of the issues. I see the evangelical, Judeo-Christian congregations in the mega churches as being a big part of the problem. Without these great numbers of Americans in support of their evil, the perpetrators would be weakened as far as their political backing here in the US. As a believer, I feel that there are those of us who can contribute by providing reasoned theological arguments such as this: https://folkpotpourri.com/blasphemy-of-the-synagogue-hypocrites-exposed/
When seen from this perspective, I would hope that those fellow barflies who are nonbelievers could resist the temptation to disregard or even attack what we Christians have to offer and just see us as contributing what we can to help out.

Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Jun 22 2024 14:50 utc | 5

The Likud keeps pretending that it still has agency in the Levant. Not any more. The initiative belongs entirely to the various resistance movements.

Tally is 196 Merkavas destroyed since 2.Oct.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 14:51 utc | 6

Personally I don't favor political parties centered on a single religion, not most Israeli parties but not Hamas and Islamic Jihad and for that matter the Taliban. But foreign policy should not aim to attack the people of a foreign country because you don't like some of the bosses! That's just a propaganda excuse. My wish is that a peace will bring free elections to Gaza, the West Bank (and Israel proper, too) and the PFLP or Palestinian Communist Party (and Rakah) would return to a bigger role. The prestige of Hamas will eventually wither, just as the prestige of the ANC in South Africa has diminished or Mugabe's party in Zimbabwe. Liberation confers tremendous prestige but nothing is forever.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 22 2024 14:53 utc | 7

Religious based parties also are an obstacle to progress in non-targeted countries. But I personally think less of the CDU/CSU or Erdogan's outfit or whatever the Christian Democrats call themselves in Italy. Correct diplomatic relations, not war!

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 22 2024 14:55 utc | 8

And...no US ambassador to or from Vatican City!

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 22 2024 14:56 utc | 9

I wish for free elections in the Warsaw Ghetto

This

This is just the point

There is a dominant people, a "HerrenVolk", with all the political and military power, and the support of the greatest military empire the face of the earth has ever seen, and a subjugated population with no civil rights

But, I wish there were free elections in the ghettos.

WTF

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 15:02 utc | 10

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 14:49 utc | 4

Is Kapo the word you're looking for?

Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 22 2024 15:16 utc | 11

@Simon, #4,

“I cannot find a good way to express in English the figure of the prisoner in whom the management trusts.”

In German concentration camps, these people were called KAPO'S and the word has found its way into English and many other languages. Kapo's generaly did their (dirty) work in exchange for extra food, cigarettes, etc. The Palestinian Authority are some sort of the Israeli Kapo's! Hum, not a compliment.

Posted by: Shahmaran | Jun 22 2024 15:20 utc | 12

..to Ozark Granpa,,,, The Evangelical Churches are wrong. The Israeli State can at the most only represent a part of tribe of Judah, There were, 12 Tribes. Judah had 3 sons with a Canaanite woman, and 2 died. Part of Judah may descend from third son
Shelah.. Christ descends from Judah union with Tamar.. After death of Solomon , Israel formed 2 Kingdoms, Judah , 2 tribes, and Israel 10 Tribes. Israel went into Assyrian captivity and migrated North and West from there.. Judah later went into Babylonian captivity and a remnant returned after 70 years, This is Real History ..There is more of Israel elsewhere..

Posted by: leocz | Jun 22 2024 15:27 utc | 13

"Religion is Poison"
--Mao
He got many things right

Posted by: hightrekker | Jun 22 2024 15:33 utc | 14

"kapo", "trusted prisoner", "prisoner of trust", "trustworthy prsioner"

---

The point is that there is a dominant people and a subjugated population.

Half of the population lives in ghettos with no civil rights.

The sharp distinction between a dominant people and a subjugated population is no coincidence but is exactly what the Great Rag Doll in hands of Aramean ventriloquists demands in their bloody pamphlets (book of Deuteronomy).

That is why the Zionist regime does not accept neither to be 1 civilized state nor to accept 2 states.

The Zionist regime is neither fascism nor colonialism, but something much more primitive: pure Barbarism of a primordial horde that worships itself.

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 15:37 utc | 15

And...no US ambassador to or from Vatican City!

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 22 2024 14:56 utc | 9

_____

There is no US ambassador to the sovereign city-state known as Vatican City. It’s worse than that. The US has an ambassador to the Holy See, which is a religious entity. It’s as if the US had an ambassador to the Council of the (LDS) Church or the Sea Org.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 22 2024 15:43 utc | 16

...

https://youtu.be/ZQNd4Vinfks

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 15:46 utc | 17

from the web--
"An insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion by small, lightly armed bands who practice guerrilla warfare against a larger authority. The key descriptive feature of insurgency is its asymmetric nature: small irregular forces face a large, well-equipped, regular military force state adversary."

The US Army, the finest in the world (heh-heh), spent twenty years trying to put down Afghanistan people who didn't want the US in their country, with similar situations in other countries.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 22 2024 15:47 utc | 18

Steven t. Johnson@1453

"..the prestige of Hamas will eventually wither". Meaningless dribble, essentially an ex-cathedra pronunciamento without a significant basis in fact.

Currently, the Hamas Movement has little to do with its original basis as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. Also, at this juncture, Hamas has the attention of the majority of informed individuals right across the world. Resistance against mythically based evil has won the respect of thoughtful people. Militarily, they have defeated the most racist and narcissistic opponents in recent history. Their strategy, tactics and resourcefulness will be studied in military "finishing schools" for decades to come.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jun 22 2024 15:48 utc | 19

40% of ethnic Palestinians are Christians. Most were ethnically cleansed by the Irgun/Likud. Christian Arabs were first targeted.

A majority of Arab-Americans are Christians.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 15:48 utc | 20

A majority of Arab-Americans are Christians.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 15:48 utc | 20

___

True, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into sympathy for Muslims or Palestinians of any religion, if my acquaintance with diaspora Lebanese Christians is any indication. They tended to identify with Arik’s henchmen at Sabra and Shatila.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 22 2024 15:54 utc | 21

hightrekker@1533

Mao's statement may have been more to the point...at least in today's cultural milieu if he had specified ORGANIZED religion and differentiated that from various spiritual pathways. A high proportion of organized religions are predicated upon impositional existential fears. Rationalistic materialism is not unlike organized religion in that the negative religiosity is spiritually vacuous.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jun 22 2024 15:55 utc | 22

...

https://youtu.be/zM2fXTkjU2E

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 15:56 utc | 23



According to Victor Marchetti, a former special assistant to the Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), a limited hangout is "spy jargon for a favorite and frequently used gimmick of the clandestine professionals. When their veil of secrecy is shredded and they can no longer rely on a phony cover story to misinform the public, they resort to admitting—sometimes even volunteering—some of the truth while still managing to withhold the key and damaging facts in the case. The public, however, is usually so intrigued by the new information that it never thinks to pursue the matter further."[1][2] While used by the CIA and other intelligence organizations, the tactic has become popularized in the corporate and political
- Wikipedia

That the NYT would publish a Limited Hangout for the benefit of Israel & CIA surprises no one.

US readers likely learned for the first time from the NYT that Israel had been in possession of
Hamas' jail break plan for over a year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html
Archived: https://archive[dot]ph/7C0id

Conspicuously missing from the NYT Limited Hangout is that there is no mention of the planned timing for the jail break.
It would take place on a holiday or the Sabbath or, in the case of Oct 7th, both.
The NYT Limited Hangout conveniently left this out.

In a completely different article the NYT wrote this:
NYT: "But October 7th was the Jewish holiday of Simchat Torah, and the Sabbath.
A senior military officer estimated that about half the 1,500 soldiers in the area were away."

The written, detailed, Hamas plan undoubtedly spelled out the use of holidays or Sabbath in clear terms.

Israeli media did not avoid the subject the way the NYT did but they didn't spell it out in clear terms either.
Six days before the NYT revelation:


The manual also described a strategy to lull Israel into complacency by holding negotiations for some form of long-term arrangement with Hamas, while at the same time staging frequent drills and carrying out small security incidents on the border on Saturdays and Jewish holidays to lull the IDF into a false sense of security when Hamas forces turned up en masse at the border fence.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/reports-senior-idf-officer-dismissed-pre-oct-7-intel-on-hamas-invasion-as-fantasy/

Good time to move commandos to the West Bank and also deplete half your forces.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-o4bJGG1ZJv0/Vl8TMA2uh6I/AAAAAAAAfko/lm2kNqcn1GA/s1600/what-me-worry.png

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 16:18 utc | 24

Al-Manar still down, I get text and then it does not go to the url for the news. I suppose I could try elinks or something similar on my linux box, but, off to work. Al-Mayadeen still up.

People who appear on Napolitano are talking about Douglas Jay Feith, who you had to say Judea or Samararia (never West Bank) to in the White house and who vetoed the security check for weapons, spying devices whenever he took a crowd of Mossad into the Pentagon.

It would be nice to hear some tales of the AIPAC -CIA minder of Obama, Rahm Emmanuel.

Posted by: paxmark1 | Jun 22 2024 16:21 utc | 25

The most loathsome stereotypes about Jews turn out to be true. Unlike Evangelicals, stupidity is not their defense.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jun 22 2024 16:26 utc | 26

@Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 16:18 utc | 24

edit

The NYT **did** mention the subject of timing in clueless fashion:


The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 16:28 utc | 27

I watch Oz MSM and DW TV news broadcasts, and listen to BBC Radio to find out what balderdash I'm supposed to believe today.

DW News from June 22 was quite interesting. They draw on the expertise of a Kings College (UK) defense and strategy commentator called Marina Miron. She speaks in a deep monotone voice with an East European accent and usually/often makes sense.

Today she was asked to comment on Jewrael's threat to invade Lebanon. After tip-toeing around the risk of sounding 'antisemitic' she deduced that diverting forces from Gaza/Hamas to do battle with a very well organised and armed Hezbollah would yield difficulties in Lebanon and give Hamas a chance to regroup.

i.e. She doesn't think it's the smartest idea Bibi has ever had.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 22 2024 16:38 utc | 28

God Bless the martyrs.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 22 2024 16:52 utc | 29

Hamas is winning, and so are the Houthis

. . . .from Stars & Stripes--
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — A commercial ship traveling through the Gulf of Aden saw explosions near the vessel, authorities said Saturday, likely the latest attack by Yemen’s Houthi rebels attempting to target the shipping lane. The apparent fire by the Houthis comes after the sinking this week of the ship Tutor, which marked what appears to be a new escalation by the Iranian-backed Houthis in their campaign of attacks on ships in the vital maritime corridor over the Israel-Hamas war in the Gaza Strip. Meanwhile, U.S. officials reportedly ordered the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, the aircraft carrier leading America’s response to the Houthi attacks, to return home.

The Ike has been sailing for five months without any shore leave, so crew attitudes are frayed.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 22 2024 17:22 utc | 30

...more on Red Sea at USNI.org . . .
In the last week, Houthi forces killed a merchant mariner, sunk a commercial ship and forced a crew to abandon another in flames. The attacks come as the Houthis continue to escalate its eight-month campaign against commercial traffic in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 22 2024 17:28 utc | 31

Re: Yemen Naval Blockade

Yemen claims their Naval blockade only targets ships associated with the Genocide. Is this true ?

Anyone can go to one of the AIS ship tracker sites:
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:37.4/centery:25.1/zoom:4

And note the dense stream of cargo ships traveling to/from the Suez Canal. Presumably, these are ships not associated with the Genocide

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 17:37 utc | 32

Yemen Navy claims (another) strike on USS Eisenhower ( published 18:55 local time)

https://english.almanar.com.lb/2137764

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 17:46 utc | 33

@Exile: Pictures don't tell the whole story, Suez traffic is down 50% see:

https://news.usni.org/2024/06/20/houthi-attacks-causing-more-damage-in-the-red-sea-merchant-traffic-through-suez-canal-down-more-than-50

Shipping rates have gone through the roof, too. Given that the entire West is associated with Genocide, that sounds about right.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 22 2024 17:47 utc | 34


The Israel-Hamas war has effects in the greater area, especially the eastern Mediterranean.

. . .from War on the Rocks--
The current conflict in Gaza has also widened existing rifts in the relation between Turkey and Israel. Since the so-called Gaza flotilla incident in 2010, in which Israel stopped and raided a flotilla of civilian vessels heading towards the naval blockade of Gaza and killed several Turkish nationals, the two regional military powers have rarely seen eye to eye. In line with recent trends, the Israeli navy has grown in size and sophistication. The naval branch of the Israel Defense Forces is largely designed for the defense of national territory and the resources within its exclusive economic zone. Its aim is to deter potential peer adversaries while mitigating the maritime threat that Hamas, Hizballah, and other non-state actors pose. This force also plays a more strategic role by providing the small, beleaguered state with strategic depth and by deploying its purported submarine-based nuclear deterrent.
. . . several Arab states as well as Iran have expanded their political and economic influence from the Arabian Gulf, up the Red Sea, and into the Mediterranean. While their naval footprint remains relatively small, newly developed capabilities for sea control, expeditionary operations, and grey zone warfare add further complexity to the Mediterranean maritime equation.
. . . For the foreseeable future, the Mediterranean will be a zone of hybrid conflict between great powers as well as, increasingly, between regional powers — as well as up-and-coming actors wrestling for limited control and influence.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 22 2024 17:54 utc | 35

Ghost,

AIS doesn’t lie. Click on link and see live tracking

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 17:54 utc | 36

And now we see what a race of people who don't want to work for money, don't want to do physical labor - but want to dominate and control the world - what are they going to do when they cannot get anyone to fight on their behalf ?

Posted by: ryanggg | Jun 22 2024 18:03 utc | 37

Ozark Grandpa | Jun 22 2024 | 5

I agree with you. So-called EVANGELICAL Christians are NOT Christian, they are confused PAGANS.

Zionists identified theEvangelical movement as a potential tool decades ago and funded the likes of Billy Graham. Their objectives were:

(1) to support the false notion of a “Judea-Christian” civilization and values. THERE IS NO SUCH THING.

(2) to persuade Evangelicals that today’s Israel and “Jews” are historically and religiously equivalent to what they were 2 thousands years ago;

(3) to create the falsehood of the “Rapture” in order to get evangelicals to become active Zionists and absolute supporters of Israel, regardless of Israel’s actions, policies, etc.

The reality is that Christ WAS NOT a Jew. He was a Hebrew who spoke Aramaic and walked on some of the land that is now occupied by Israel. The concept and term “Jew” DID NOT exist for another 1200 years after the Crucifixion. AND, so-called Judaism as practiced by most Hebrews at the time of Christ was replaced, following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70AD, by Rabbinical Pharaism which is based on the Talmud, a totally man-made compendium of hatred towards those who are not Pharisees. Pharisees plagiarized Babylonian paganism to write the early Talmud and added more interpretations over time.

The followers of the Talmud excel at accumulating material wealth , as one would expect from Babylonian pagans, and infiltrated all Western institutions centuries ago. In 1518, Pope Leon X authorized the first edition of the Talmud in Venice. Leon X was acting in accordance with Pharisee plants to ensure the survival of Talmudic culture based on racism, sexual depravity, and other Babylonian pagan traditions and practices.

Posted by: Liberator | Jun 22 2024 18:15 utc | 38

response to: malenkov | Jun 22 2024 15:43 utc | 16

It's worse than that . . .The US has an ambassador to the Holy See, which is a religious entity. It’s as if the US had an ambassador to the Council of the (LDS) Church . . .

It's even worse than that: ZOG/neocons have a plant smack in the middle of Vatican City/Holy See: Juan Zarate was a charter member of US Treasury Dept.'s OFAC -- "guerillas in grey suits." Since 2014, Zarate has been on

"the Board that oversees the Vatican's Institute for the Works of Religion, a move announced by Cardinal Pell of the Vatican Finance Ministry as part of Pope Francis I's efforts to clean up the finances of the Vatican."

simultaneously,

"He is a co-founder of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies's Center on Economic and Financial Power . . .Since January 2024 Zarate has served on the National Endowment for Democracy's board of directors."

It appears "Zarate" translates, "Fox in henhouse."

Posted by: ChasMark | Jun 22 2024 18:36 utc | 39

Thank You. Liberator. Very well said..Jews today are Anti-Christ. Teachings like Rapture, , Temple restoration, 7th week of Daniel not fulfilled are False and Misleading. They deceive the Evangelicals..

Posted by: leocz | Jun 22 2024 18:38 utc | 40

They are a handful of different stories

1) the history of tribes living on the fringes of the coercive and fiscal power of the Egyptian empire. Arab tribes called "Hebrews". The north of "the land of Canaan" was Phoenician (remember that the Phoenicians called themselves "Canaanites") and the south was Arab. And this is so for centuries, in fact the great Temple was built by an Arab king, Herod the Great.

2) The history of an Aramaic ruling class of Persian times. From this era dates the Mental Software Zionism 1.0 (Book of Joshua and Book of Deuteronomy)

3) the history of a Religion that spread like wildfire among women and was made up of people from "all the nations of the world"

4) the religion of "the people of the land" ("am ha'eretz") which was neither the priestly Judaism of the city-Temple nor the later medieval rabbinical Judaism.

5) the rabbinic Judaism (200/400-) that took centuries to impose itself.

6) an ethnic group forged by the rabbis when they decided not to be a religion: the Yiddish people who prospered in Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Byelorussia, by finding a gap between the Catholic ruling class and the Christian peasantry.

7) "Our colonial project" (Vladimir Jabotinsky) founded (1917-) by the British Empire and some guys from Ukraine, Belarus, Poland ... agreement reached in London in exchange for getting America into WWI.

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 18:44 utc | 41

Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Jun 22 2024 14:50 utc | 5

I see the evangelical, Judeo-Christian congregations in the mega churches as being a big part of the problem. Without these great numbers of Americans in support of their evil, the perpetrators would be weakened as far as their political backing here in the US.

Maybe a semantic quibble, and maybe am wrong, but seems that it's not so much evangelical support that counts but that evangelical brainwashing prevents resistance to following AIPAC-Israeli lead from naturally arising. So the support is more passive than active, but its effect is to reduce, if not indeed eliminate, any substantive resistance to their intensely self-serving tribal agenda.

Personally speaking, whilst I have deplored Izzy treatment of Palestinians for decades now and wish the whole sorry business had never happened, nevertheless it did and is still ongoing. That said, I think I understand where the Izzies are coming from: they want their own State filled with and run by their own people and they want that State to be much bigger than the non-binding 1947 UN Resolution tentatively gave them.

Legally and politically the whole thing has always been a mess, having to do with various exigencies such as Jews being quasi adolescents depending on the largesse of others with all the politicking & infiltration required to lobby such support, meaning it has never been an honourable exercise; but as critics harp endlessly and correctly, nor was the European 'white' takeover of North America. A sorry business all round.

So the Izzy desire to push the Palestinians out once and for all makes perfect sense from their point of view which is why about 80% support it. What the world community does with this I don't know, but clearly moral outrage is not enough.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 22 2024 18:45 utc | 42

"So-called EVANGELICAL Christians are NOT Christian, they are confused PAGANS.

Zionists identified theEvangelical movement as a potential tool decades ago and funded the likes of Billy Graham"
@Liberator | Jun 22 2024 18:15 utc | 38

I assume you mean that modern christian zionists may be seen as pagan.
You could add that British christians in 1838 and on were the real initiators of modern zionism.

And that genuine christians had begun in the 1580s as England began thinking of an empire. According to Gold and Fitzgerald the beginning of the empire came after the Desmond wars in 1583.
And according to Donald Wagner: "One of the early expressions of the themes was the monograph “Apocalypsis Apocalypseos,” written by the Anglican clergyman, Rev. Thomas Brightman in 1585. Brightman urged the British people to support the return of the Jews to Palestine in order to hasten a series of prophetic events that would culminate in the return of Jesus."

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Jun 22 2024 18:50 utc | 43

@Ozark Grandpa Jun 22 2024 14:50 utc

Grandpa - and I say that respectfully - that might be your best post yet, and I've read plenty of your posts.

"and just see us as contributing what we can to help out."

You are much-appreciated, Grandpa.

I am a "non-believer" in the religious sense, but I certainly, even emphatically, believe in good works coming from all quarters.

Happy Sunday to you.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Jun 22 2024 18:54 utc | 44

“…non-binding 1947 UN Resolution…” ?????

UNR 181 and UNR 194 are very much binding international laws. In fact, the 181 borders remain the sole internationally recognized borders of the Jewish and Arab states.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 18:57 utc | 45

"So-called EVANGELICAL Christians are NOT Christian, they are confused PAGANS.

Zionists identified theEvangelical movement as a potential tool decades ago and funded the likes of Billy Graham""
@Liberator | Jun 22 2024 18:15 utc | 38

"I assume you mean that modern christian zionists may be seen as pagan.
You could add that British christians in 1838 and on were the real initiators of modern zionism.

And that genuine christians had begun in the 1580s as England began thinking of an empire. According to Gold and Fitzgerald the beginning of the empire came after the Desmond wars in 1583.
And according to Donald Wagner: "One of the early expressions of the themes was the monograph “Apocalypsis Apocalypseos,” written by the Anglican clergyman, Rev. Thomas Brightman in 1585. Brightman urged the British people to support the return of the Jews to Palestine in order to hasten a series of prophetic events that would culminate in the return of Jesus.""

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Jun 22 2024 18:50 utc | 43

You are both right.

What confounds me is that Evangelical Christian have strong, religious faith of the 'end times 'and the return of Jesus and they know exactly what is to happen-yet, if they really believed that creed they wouldn't need to work hard or at all for the script to be unveiled as it is prophesized.

So how much faith do they have really?

Posted by: canuck | Jun 22 2024 18:59 utc | 46

In scheme

Zionism 1.0
Judaism 1.A
Judaism 1.B
Judaism 1.C

Judaism 2.0
Zionism 2.0

But, of course, all this may be too many details for a supposed Christian in America whose true heroes are the general of the marine corps Pontius Pilate and the Sadducean clan of the Annas who had power (in the sun and in the shadow) between the census cadastre of Sulpicius Quirinus (ca. +6) and when (ca. +66) Menahem -"No more lord than the Lord"- beheaded the high priest Anas the young son of Anas the old father-in-law of Caiphas... and "burned the archives of the Debts".

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 19:05 utc | 47

There was much discussion yesterday about the Nova rave party held outside the Gaza prison walls
www.moonofalabama.org/2024/06/hizbullah-ready-to-defeat-israel.html

I believe that I have this straight. You are welcome to help.

The Nova festival was relocated just two days before it took place.
It was relocated to ***between*** Gaza and the Re'im military base on Route 232.
According to the Hamas detailed written plans that Israel had in it's possession for over a year
the Re'im military base was a **named** target.

To get to the target Israel knew Hamas would have to first go past the festival.

The officer in charge of approving/disapproving events such as the festival disapproved it.
But he was overruled by higher ups at division headquarters. These higher ups
typically offered advisory opinions on such matters, but in this case there
was "unusual pressure" according to Haaretz sources.

A massive traffic jam ensued as party goers fled. The exit from the festival site was roadblocked
by Israeli police and police roadblocks were set up in both directions of Route 232.

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 19:06 utc | 48

@Posted by: canuck | Jun 22 2024 18:59 utc | 46
Yes, they imagine that they have the power of prophecy.

Matthew 7:15

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Matthew 7:16

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 19:12 utc | 49

….. A massive traffic jam ensued as party goers fled. The exit from the festival site was roadblocked
by Israeli police and police roadblocks were set up in both directions of Route 232.

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 19:06 utc | …..

===============
And then the IDF helicopter gunships were ordered to fire wildly into the jammed cars and jammed car park. ( pilots quoted in Israeli media )

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 19:20 utc | 50

Our Father, who art in heavens,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heavens.

Give us this day our daily bread and don't wait until tomorrow

Forgive our Debts from our indebted fields, and do not make us fall into the temptation of slaughtering the Sadducees of the city Temple.

Amen

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 19:21 utc | 51

Little Amos Hochstein shuttles between Israel and Lebanon, conveying the usual threats from the former to the latter. To wit: Tel Aviv demands a sterile zone from the Litani River to the Blue Line. Or else USA will be forced to support an extension of Israel's genocide into Lebanon.

Beirut demands Tel Aviv cease firing on Palestinians. We have an impasse: An irrepressible aggressor meets an implacable people.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jun 22 2024 19:31 utc | 52

@@Posted by: canuck | Jun 22 2024 18:59 utc | 46

A really impactful book for the false prophet crowd is The Late Great Planet Earth.
Once, many many years ago, I had the terrible idea that if I read the book I could find some hole in it's logic
and thus defeat it logically. As I first began reading I was flabbergasted and knew that **I** was defeated.
I realized that anyone who actually bought into this piece of trash book had no use whatsoever for logic.


The Late Great Planet Earth is a 1970 book by Hal Lindsey, with contributions by Carole C. Carlson, first published by Zondervan. The New York Times declared it to be the bestselling "nonfiction" book of the 1970s.[1] The book was first featured on a primetime television special featuring Hal Lindsey in 1974 and 1975 with an audience of 17 million and produced by Alan Hauge of GMT Productions. It was adapted by Rolf Forsberg and Robert Amram[2] into a 1978 film narrated by Orson Welles and released by Pacific International Enterprises.
Description
The Late Great Planet Earth is a treatment of literalist, premillennial, dispensational eschatology. As such, it compared end-time prophecies in the Bible with then-current events in an attempt to predict future scenarios resulting in the rapture of believers before the tribulation and Second Coming of Jesus to establish his thousand-year (i.e. millennial) kingdom on Earth. Emphasizing various passages in the books of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation, Lindsey originally suggested the possibility that these climactic events might occur during the 1980s, which he interpreted as one generation from the foundation of modern Israel during 1948, a major event according to some conservative evangelical schools of eschatological thought.
- Wikipedia

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 19:39 utc | 53

today there are hardly any true Christians

(1) the supreme value of Christians was Peace

(2) universal morality beyond the narcissistic tribal navel. Christians were born from a group of Yehudim who were angry with Judaism. Although this cannot be said in public today.

(3) dissidents of the Empire

(Christians of various origins meet in this bar)

In America and Europe there are hardly any Christians, what there are ... are millions of Romans, and millions of Romans fascinated with bloody Aramaic pamphlets.

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 19:39 utc | 54

@Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 19:20 utc | 50

Yes, thanks, should have included the Apache helicopters.

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 19:40 utc | 55

Haifa could experience an explosion like the one in Beirut port in a war with Hezbollah. Hezbollah breached Israeli air defences with a drone and discovered ammonium nitrate plants which, if hit, would have the same effect as a nuclear weapon explosion - Max Blumenthal

https://t.me/thearcangel/108623

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 22 2024 19:47 utc | 56

We all know

We all know that today "the Nazarene" would not be crucified, which is how the Romans killed a rebellious slave, but rather he would be killed by a dron with Israelite software piloted from Arizona by an American evangelical.

The bulk of so-called Christianity is blasphemy, ignorance and a poorly disguised penchant for "the primordial serpent called Satan", which arises when our gangsta Chimp brains attach themselves to identity-eliciting narcissistic narrative fantasies.

Romans love a good kill. Hiroshima and Nagasaki and a B-52 sum up Roman theology.

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 19:56 utc | 57

If Israel did have Hamas's plans in advance, that makes Hamas's victory all the more glorious.

Posted by: Lysias | Jun 22 2024 19:59 utc | 58

@Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 19:06 utc | 48
@Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 19:20 utc | 50

Also worth including, the extremist, right-wing, blood-thirsty Religious Zionists that have been empowered in Netanyahu's coalition government
aspire to rule Israel according to their version of Jewish Law.

The Nova Festival was a secular festival, a psy trance "free love" dance party. It was held ("gasp") on a special holy day and the Sabbath.

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 20:02 utc | 59

If Israel did have Hamas's plans in advance, that makes Hamas's victory all the more glorious.

@Posted by: Lysias | Jun 22 2024 19:59 utc | 58

Or all the more ignominious for Israel.

And, yes, The NYT and many Israeli media reported that Israel, a year before Oct 7th, had captured a multi-paged, detailed, plan Hamas had prepared for invading Israel.


-
Did you know that:
-
https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-details-unveiled-of-idf-intel-on-oct-7-plans-consults-hours-before-hamas-attack/
-


"Israel had multiple sources of information on Hamas’s drills and other preparations for an assault in the weeks ahead of October 7, reportedly including a 2022 Hamas attack plan.

Channel 12 also reported Monday that a TV drama series broadcast last year on Hamas TV that featured terrorists infiltrating Israel was publicly hailed by Hamas’s Gaza chief Yahya Sinwar as “an inseparable part of what we are preparing.”

Hamas TV broadcast the series during Ramadan in late spring 2022, the report said. It dramatized an attack on Israel featuring the use of white pickup trucks, the disabling of Israeli communications, and the targeting of kibbutzim and IDF bases — including the Re’im base where the IDF Gaza Division is located. It also showed soldiers being kidnapped, and the establishment of a Palestinian base at an IDF base.

Along with footage from the Hamas show, the Israeli network showed a clip from a televised award ceremony held in Gaza later in 2022, at which Sinwar handed out prizes to the show’s producers.
-
“This series is an inseparable part of what we are preparing — the great preparations we are making with our brothers in the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades,” he was shown saying, referring to Hamas’s military wing. Sinwar cited “the weaponry that they are producing” and their “intelligence gathering.”

Hamas’s military wing, he said, “is absolutely planning for the liberation and return.”

This is incredible! But it is from The Times of Israel news media. Question **everything**.


Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 20:11 utc | 60

look at the city scape the drone footage
depleted urainium everywhere

Gods children slaughtered the real chosen the real semite the living
dna radiated tainted forever the radioactive dust in lungs slow kill.
poisoned water how many dead 200 hundred thousand plus must be.
pity the children the mothers fathers sisters brothers a tel aviver talmoodick sacrifice
for molech baal these anglo zio khazhar name stealers identity thieves.

no law exists now the false fake illusion the mirror has been shattered counterfeit is raheil hell city of london temple bar pirates wall street and the rise of hitler and the bolshevik revolutions

have null and voided all contracts everything is now Chazakah take it claim it own it chazakah is the only code

Posted by: todd | Jun 22 2024 20:17 utc | 61

One more.

This article makes the claim that Israel set itself up to fail.

Here is a NYT article, republished in the Irish Times, and found in the archives:

https://archive[dot]ph/QRMKD


"
And perhaps most damning: The Israeli military did not even have a plan to respond to a large-scale Hamas attack on Israeli soil, according to current and former soldiers and officers. If such a plan existed on a shelf somewhere, the soldiers said, no one had trained on it and nobody followed it. The soldiers that day made it up as they went along.
“In practice, there wasn’t the right defensive preparation, no practice, and no equipping and building strength for such an operation,” said Yom Tov Samia, a major general in the Israeli reserves and former head of the military’s southern command.
“There was no defence plan for a surprise attack such as the kind we have seen on October 7th,” said Amir Avivi, a brigadier general in the reserves and a former deputy commander of the Gaza division, which is responsible for protecting the region.
"
...
"Making matters worse, the military has acknowledged that it moved two commando companies – more than 100 soldiers – to the West Bank just two days before the attack, a reflection of Israel’s mistaken belief that a Hamas attack was not an imminent threat.
That left three infantry battalions and one tank battalion along Gaza’s border. But October 7th was the Jewish holiday of Simchat Torah, and the Sabbath. A senior military officer estimated that about half the 1,500 soldiers in the area were away. He said another infantry battalion had been reassigned years earlier after Israel finished building a security wall around Gaza."

---
question everything

Posted by: librul | Jun 22 2024 20:17 utc | 62

Simon @ 4

The usual word in current US prisons is 'trusty'. Although there is less and less trust anywhere.

Yard boss is another possibility. Yard boss probably has an ambiguous connection to the warden.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 22 2024 20:46 utc | 63

The Afghan Taliban has notified Iran that thousands of its fighters are ready to assist Hezbollah in the event of a full-scale war with Israel.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/101891

They used to be ardent enemies, now together in cause. More brilliant clusterfuck strategizing by the USA and Israel. On the other hand maybe this is what the neocon order wanted all along, WW3 to be like the final scene in the Godfather, where Michael settles all accounts old and new.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 22 2024 21:42 utc | 64

International attorneys Sam Husseini and Dmitri Lascaris discuss US efforts to torpedo UN Gaza ceasefire attempts...
Early on Lascaris explains the 'dead cat diplomacy' a US negotiating strategy employed and recognized by State Department officials long before Biden. The argument is that when you're trying to strike a deal your goal is not to actually reach a durable outcome in the negotiations but rather to be able to lay the 'dead cat' at the door of the party that you want to vilify. No surprise to barflies, Blinkin iow is not engaged in any effort to achieve a ceasefire that is meaningful, it's all about placing the blame on Hamas....Husseini illuminates with how this thesis applied to the failure of the so-called ceasefire agreement aka kabuki theater and all that had been achieved from South Africa's appeal to the ICJ to Algerian proposal has all been hijacked.

Further discussions of the 4th Geneva Conventions and more.

https://youtu.be/xx2HAO-NfIo

Posted by: PassionateProgressiv | Jun 22 2024 21:45 utc | 65

"People fear continuing the war as much as they fear stopping it, but why? Because for nine months they had stored up sadness that did not take its due, crying and brokenness - in front of themselves at least - one of the prisoners recently released from the “kingdom of savagery” told me that their bodies no longer felt pain due to the excessive beating and torture that had been inflicted on them, but the first night he spent outside the prison, it hurt. Retrospectively on all the days of captivity, and according to this measure, people will wake up one day, surrounded by all the pain of war, which the fighting of this life has distracted them from feeling, who lost everything they owned at once, the house, the car, and the door to livelihood, and who lost all of their family at once. One by one or in instalments, those whose limbs were amputated, those who lost their sight, all of these people are now forced to challenge life with all its cruelty. They act as if they are an equal who refuses to be defeated. The truth is that they/we are ordinary. We fear the moment of solemn disclosure.


Journalist Youssef Fares - Gaza."

https://t.me/youseffares19/39858

Posted by: Ornot | Jun 22 2024 21:53 utc | 66

"Romans love a good kill. Hiroshima and Nagasaki and a B-52 sum up Roman theology."

Posted by: Simon | Jun 22 2024 19:56 utc | 57

Well you can say what you want but the time between Augustus accession in 27 BC till the end of Marcus Aurelius reign (180 AD) - the Pax Romana-was the most peaceful time in West3rn civilization.

Peace, prosperity and happiness can happen under any political ideology, the secret is having proper leaders.

Posted by: canuck | Jun 22 2024 21:58 utc | 67

I do not have access to the full NYT article that B links to, as I am not a subscriber to that rag, but from what I can read of it, I am guessing that Smotrich is building up his own little empire and power base that will help support any future attempts of his to overthrow Netanyahu and to make himself Prime Minister.

So much for Israel gloating about being the only democracy in the Middle East! Not when Syria has been a parliamentary democracy since 2012 when Syrian voters approved a new constitution.

PS - do any MoA barflies have any current news on the state of Asma al Assad's health? Last I heard, she had been diagnosed with leukaemia.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 22 2024 21:58 utc | 68

ornot@21:53

Thank you for presenting the utter wickedness of the colonialist, imperialist butt-pimple in the eastern Mediterranean. That entity should be granted the universal booby-prize for genocidal intent and accomplishment.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jun 22 2024 22:32 utc | 69

canuck@21:58

With the U$$A, the ruptured republic, as a prime exemplar; there appears to be an Iron Law of dissipation and devolution in all large and powerful political entities. Initially, America was an idea, a dream of a righteous republic. Individuals such as Thomas Paine, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were primarily impulsed by ideals, generally positive ones. Those ideals were grounded in the premise of individual rights and liberties.

However, even in those early years, there were snakes in the woodpile, men such as Alexander Hamilton and his financier buddies, most particularly in Philadelphia and even his enabler and mentor, George Washington, who was known by the Lenape (Delaware) tribe as the "destroyer of villages"...the man was the nation's leading land-speculator. Then we consider John Marshall, John Adams' last minute selectee as Chief Justice for the Supreme Court. He was the one who established the concept of Lawfare by the Court, where in later years, such horrors as Citizens United and lesser known ukases such as the "Dual Sovereignty" doctrine were contra-constitutional "rulings" by those partisan appointees.

In more recent times, ever since the blackmailed and enabled candidate Thomas Woodrow Wilson and his nefarious dirty deeds...began a succession of presidents who steadily degenerated via the likes of profiteer Herbert Hoover, the partisan schemer, FDR, who deliberately suckered the Japanese into bombing Pearl Harbor in order to get the U.$. into WWII, Harry Truman, a product of the criminal political machine of Prendergast in Kansas City;then the mass-murder of German Prisoners, Dwight David Eisenhower, a protege of Bernard Baruch...and after the inside job assassins of our last truly American president, JFK...a succession of ever-worsening and deeply controlled non-entities who have ultimately metastasized into the $enile One, currently occupying the Tainted House at 1200 Pennsylvania Avenue in the Di$trict of Corruption.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jun 22 2024 22:48 utc | 70

Posted by: canuck | Jun 22 2024 21:58 utc | 67

'Well you can say what you want but the time between Augustus accession in 27 BC till the end of Marcus Aurelius reign (180 AD) - the Pax Romana-was the most peaceful time in West3rn civilization.'

I think you need a history lesson. The following is a list of the major wars between 27 BC and 180 AD in the 'Western civilization' of Europe.

29-19 BC Cantabrian Wars (Northern Spain)
16 BC Raetum and Noricum were conquered and annexed to Rome (parts of Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Italy and Slovenia)
12 BC - 180 AD Germanic wars
43-84 AD The conquest of Britain
86 AD Dacian war (Romania and parts of Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia, Moldova, Slovakia and the Ukraine).


Posted by: Siddhartha | Jun 22 2024 23:01 utc | 71

Finish them off Bibi!!!

Posted by: Destroy Amalek | Jun 22 2024 23:04 utc | 72

Arestodimos appreciated. It is easy to lose track of the human side with the media, hype and its normalising effect. For those in Gaza surely each day is as harsh as when all started. Well, there is nothing I could add to the local reporting, but here is an own reminder of (and call to) western humanity, that we are fortunate to have :


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjIlcYLKm0

English Translation

Is there for honest poverty
That hangs his head, and all that?
The coward slave, we pass him by -
We dare be poor for all that!
For all that, and all that,
Our toils obscure, and all that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The man's the gold for all that.

What though on homely fare we dine,
Wear rough grey tweed, and all that?
Give fools their silks, and knaves their wine -
A man is a man for all that.
For all that, and all that,
Their tinsel show, and all that,
The honest man, though ever so poor,
Is king of men for all that.

You see that fellow called 'a lord',
Who struts, and stares, and all that?
Though hundreds worship at his word,
He is but a dolt for all that.
For all that, and all that,
His ribboned, star, and all that,
The man of independent mind,
He looks and laughs at all that.

A prince can make a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, and all that!
But an honest man is above his might -
Good faith, he must not fault that
For all that, and all that,
Their dignities, and all that,
The pith of sense and pride of worth
Are higher rank than all that.

Then let us pray that come it may
(As come it will for a' that)
That Sense and Worth over all the earth
Shall take the prize and all that!
For all that, and all that,
It is coming yet for all that,
That man to man the world over
Shall brothers be for all that.

Posted by: Ornot | Jun 22 2024 23:21 utc | 73

OMG! O_o This news about the rave's venue permits being relocated at the last minute, against the better judgment of those who normally do permitting, by the strange urgency of higher ups, is really damning. The case for LIHOP builds...

Zionists are willing to murder Jews, and even plan for their endangerment, to get what they want. All this for a military with a country, but a country with no constitution: a genocidal, supremacist, child-murdering military state. And this military is one that has disproportionate pull within other Western, theoretically democratic or republic, constitutional states. O_O

O_O Danger! Danger Will Robinson! O_O

Posted by: titmouse | Jun 22 2024 23:23 utc | 74

Posted by: aristodemos | Jun 22 2024 22:48 utc | 70

History as a parade of personalities, leads to a futile search for the great world historic hero to save us all, encouraging the masses to remain passive objects waiting for the active individual hero to put things right.

I can see why you like this brand of historical "thought", Aristo. But, it totally ignores the socioeconomic systems humans have created to produce their world and how these systems, in turn, effect the thinking of their human creators. The systems work for a period, but breakdown when they no longer correspond to the slowly changing reality of the world. At a point, this lack of correspondence becomes unbearable and a new socioeconomic system that corresponds to current reality must be violently birthed from the belly of the old, dying system.

Individuals have an impact of history. Indeed they must become conscious of the objective process, choose a side and fight it out politically, then militarily. But the real motor engine, indifferent to individual personalities, is the progressive development of the socioeconomic system, it's logic, it's demands. That is the determinative factor, not individual "snakes in the woodpile" at some juncture or another.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 22 2024 23:34 utc | 75

…… Finish them off Bibi!!!……

Don’t believe Bibi killing all the IDF POWs held in Gaza is what you mean; but will be the result, along with another few thousand IDF KIA and tens of thousands more IDF WIA.

IDF Radio reported 3,800 IDF casualties alone from the Rafah attack during May 7th until June 16th. 3,800 just in Rafah.

Bibi is doing a fine job of killing Israelis, doubt he’ll kill then all. But he sure is trying.

Masada complex my friend

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2024 23:35 utc | 76

Finish them off Bibi!!!

Posted by: Destroy Amalek | Jun 22 2024 23:04 utc | 72

Keep crowing, Zionazi. The veil has been lifted. The world increasingly sees and understands your filthy ways. It won't be long now before your backwards religious cult is smashed once and for all.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 22 2024 23:38 utc | 77

Thanks for this link "b". well worth reading. An insurgency, of whatever type, with strong local/national community support is very difficult to defeat: why does it feel so strange to see such realism in the "self-defined exceptional" elite?

Hamas Is Winning
Why Israel’s Failing Strategy Makes Its Enemy Stronger
By Robert A. Pape
June 21, 2024

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/middle-east-robert-pape

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 23 2024 0:17 utc | 78

@ Don Firineach | Jun 23 2024 0:17 utc | 78

Pape realizes, however reluctantly, that Hamas is winning and even increasing in popularity. But he attributes this largely to successful propaganda, not to Zionist subjugation and brutality. His reliance on statistics provided by a Palestinian organization with ties to the Zionists is also highly suspect: Was Hamas really only tied for popularity with the PA prior to October 7? Does Pape not realize that when the Palestinians were given an opportunity to elect a government, they elected Hamas, which to this day is the only legitimate Palestinian government?

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 23 2024 0:50 utc | 79

@malenkov | Jun 23 2024 0:50 utc | 79

Useful critique - but doubt that is could be published in "Foreign Affairs"! Its hidden hands ensure their limits are imposed.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 23 2024 1:15 utc | 80

[email protected] BS on Max. AH is the big fart of bomb family. Blast depends on confinement and oil mix ignition accelerant. Over pressure blast is about 450' per sec. Great for show, smashed windows damaged facades but rarely does structural damage unless inside or right beside target. Clumsy stuff.
The AH stored at the Beirut dock was a special grade for blasting Quarry rock. Already has accelerant and precursors added. Just requires confinement and ignitor. Over blast is close to speed of sound or there abouts, much more powerful the farm yard AH.

Cheers M

......if you go back and trace the saga of the ship that dropped the highly explosive AH at said dock it becomes clear it was propositioned as part of the long game......they do that.

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 23 2024 1:27 utc | 81

pre positioned.....not propositioned

Cheers

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 23 2024 1:30 utc | 82

From The Cradle

https://thecradle.co/articles/dozens-killed-in-northern-gaza-during-israeli-assassination-attempt

The quote

Israeli attacks in Gaza have killed 101 Palestinians and wounded 169 over the last 24 hours, according to Gaza’s Ministry of Health. This marks the highest daily death toll recorded in the enclave since 8 June, when Israeli forces killed at least 274 Palestinians during a joint operation with the US army in the Nuseirat refugee camp.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2024 1:56 utc | 83

Zionism is a degenerate racist mindset that manifests as a criminal enterprise.
It should be stamped out, like pederasty.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 23 2024 1:58 utc | 84

Hard to reconcile the official numbers idf releases. 320 dead but officially 72,000 injured. The ratio when compared to any other military operation or even the contested numbers of ukraine Russia don't seem plausible. Surely the reading between the lines / lies becomes apparent with those two numbers

Posted by: Hankster | Jun 23 2024 2:04 utc | 85

Did the Houthi's hit the Eisenhower?

There is this quote from Al Manar TV

The missile force of our Armed Forces carried out a targeting operation against the US aircraft carrier Eisenhower in the northern Red Sea with a number of ballistic and cruise missiles, and the operation has achieved its objectives successfully, he added.

If it is true that the aircraft carrier is leaving the Red Sea then it doesn't matter if it was hit or not, eh?

The Houthi's don't get to return to port after 5 months out, do they?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2024 2:04 utc | 86

Thanks for the background on religion, peeps. Not my cup of tea, but an important part of life over there.

Still, that's not the only reason that place is a living hell.

Rumours are around 250,000 people have left Lebanon and the Entity might launch a full-scale war within 48 hours.

UAE has urged all its citizens to leave immediately.

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 23 2024 2:06 utc | 87

fyi

from Elijah Magnier


https://x.com/ejmalrai/status/1804381498654756886
I hear the phrase "Palestinian adventure" in #Gaza echoed by the same Arabs who used it during the 2006 war in #Lebanon. The reason is crystal clear:

They offer nothing, not even a word of support for the Palestinians.
They have a cosy relationship with #Israel.
They are part of a despised, subjugated population.
They follow their leaders blindly and unquestioningly.
They believe that cowardice is contagious.
They prefer to avoid becoming irrelevant in the dustbin of history.

They spread calculated disinformation and cheap propaganda of submission.


Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 23 2024 2:07 utc | 88

What I've seen only reported back around oct 7 was that the festival had many refusniks. Ie those that refuse to do military service for Israel. Wanting to spend your youth partyn with music drugs and pretty girls, it must be so abhorrent to those that want them permanently PTSD from war crimes of oppression for the state. There was an implication that disappeared quickly that the festival got what they deserved from their refusals to adhere to the states requirements. I do think they were purposefully hung out as juicy bait for this exact reason.

Posted by: Hankster | Jun 23 2024 2:14 utc | 89

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2024 2:04 utc | 86

The whole world waits to see Eisenhower in transit through the Suez. Ansarallah again claimed more attacks on it , stating direct hits yesterday. Hang a big picture over the hole in the wall to fool the real estate inspection . We will see. But either way ammunition must have been generously expended and the dollar cost for its deployment must be astronomical for the value of shipping it allowed to dock in Israeli ports.
To even have msm talking about psychological care for crew means there way more going on than publicly reported.

Posted by: Hankster | Jun 23 2024 2:21 utc | 90

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 23 2024 1:27 utc | 81
AHAN breaks down to ANA when reacted on by acids. Large quantities of AH burning creates enough acid and heat to destabilize it an turn it in to one of the weaker high order explosives. It burns at around 7k' per second. The fuel oil added in mine blasting operations is so that it flows easily into the drill wholes. It has nothing to do with making it go boom. Fires of large quantities of AH fertilizer can and have detonated many times in rather spectacular fashions in the past. Galveston and Halifax both having had their port areas destroyed from such fertilizer detonations following ship fires in the 1930's.

Posted by: badjoke | Jun 23 2024 2:33 utc | 91

paxmark1 | Jun 22 2024 16:21 utc | 25
"People who appear on Napolitano are talking about Douglas Jay Feith, who you had to say Judea or Samararia (never West Bank) to in the White house and who vetoed the security check for weapons, spying devices whenever he took a crowd of Mossad into the Pentagon.

It would be nice to hear some tales of the AIPAC -CIA minder of Obama, Rahm Emmanuel."

I heard this on Judge Nap - it was quite shocking, when I heard that the Israelis had entry to Pentagon without being searched or without ID, just on the word of Douglas Feith. It was Col. Wilkerson who talked about it with Judge and he was incensed at the dual citizen leading the US government. They also bring up Amos Hochstein as the US envoy...
This observation leads to my next 'three pence' comment:

Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 22 2024 16:38 utc | 28
The person Miron you heard on DW, also appeared sometime ago on BBC World, she seems to be smart and well connected and someone the propaganda media seek out. My impression is that she is of jewish heritage, from Eastern Europe. She is probably dual, or even quadruple citizen, like many others, 'wanderers'. Kolomoyskyj comes to mind (Ukraine, Swiss, Israeli, ?Russian?). She is participating in NATO gatherings. She has some common features with Danielle Pletka.

Interesting biography:
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/marina-miron
https://kcl.academia.edu/MarinaMiron

Posted by: fanto | Jun 23 2024 2:54 utc | 92

Fair winds and following seas to the Dwight D. Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group (IKE CSG) as they return home to their families.

Flying over 30,000 hours and sailing over 55,000 miles the IKE CSG demonstrated our commitment to regional stability and protected freedom of navigation throughout the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden. The IKE CSG also upheld their commitment to safety of all seafarers, rescuing mariners in distress on several occasions following unprovoked attacks on innocent mariners by Iranian-backed Houthis.

Following completion of a scheduled exercise in the Indo-Pacific, the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) Carrier Strike Group will enter the CENTCOM Area of Responsibility bringing with it capabilities that enhance CENTCOM’s ability to deter aggression, safeguard regional stability, and protect freedom of navigation in the region.
2:37 PM - 22 Jun 24


https://x.com/CENTCOM/status/1804584436987519398

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 23 2024 2:56 utc | 93

@ Babel-17 | Jun 23 2024 2:56 utc | 93 with the report of the changing of the guard...thans

Isn't it Teddy that was the Big Stick president?

We will see how big the stick is today.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2024 3:01 utc | 94

But then there's this.

OP is deliberately misleading readers by leaving out key context: the USS Eisenhower is completing its tour and will be replaced by the USS Roosevelt in the exact same operating area. The Houthi failed to successfully strike any military vessels from the strike group.

https://x.com/CENTCOM/status/1804584436987519398?t=0OjHSZD7dcPYAOqrDYsiqg&s=19

https://shafaq.com/en/World/USS-Eisenhower-leaves-Red-Sea-for-Mediterranean-Roosevelt-to-replace-in-Middle-East

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 23 2024 3:02 utc | 95

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2024 3:01 utc | 94

Indeed! We should pray not for justice, but for mercy.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 23 2024 3:05 utc | 96

Hard to reconcile the official numbers idf releases. 320 dead but officially 72,000 injured. The ratio when compared to any other military operation or even the contested numbers of ukraine Russia don't seem plausible. Surely the reading between the lines / lies becomes apparent with those two numbers

Posted by: Hankster | Jun 23 2024 2:04 utc | 85

That would be around 24.000 permanently disabled


Kia 9.000-12.000


That with good ratios for medical success

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 23 2024 3:15 utc | 97

Re: Carrier rotation

The old USN rule used to be 3 months deployed at sea, 6 months retrofit and training; then 3 months deployed. These days Naval brass has waved it magic wand and decreed 6 month deployments the norm.

a 6 month deployment on a 50 year old Carrier like the Eisenhower will need lots of repairs. It’s shocking how much sh*t breaks at sea.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 23 2024 3:28 utc | 98

The IDF is trying to conquer a vast underground fortress with nil success. Doesn’t take much analysis to conclude IDF KIA on the Southern Front are in the many thousands.

Also note, the IDF has been taking plenty of hits on the Northern Front.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 23 2024 4:06 utc | 99


fyi,

https://t.me/ResistanceTrench/28609

🇮🇶🚀🏴‍☠️ Summary of the Yemeni Armed Forces Statement:

The Yemeni Armed Forces, in coordination with the Iraqi Islamic Resistance, executed two joint military operations on June 22, 2024, targeting five ships in Haifa Port and the Mediterranean Sea.

The first operation hit four ships, including cement tankers and general cargo ships, while the second targeted the ship "Shorthorn Express" en route to Haifa.

Both operations successfully hit their targets.

This action is in support of the Palestinian people and a response to crimes against Gaza. The Yemeni Armed Forces will continue such operations until the aggression stops and the siege on Gaza is lifted.


Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 23 2024 4:08 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.