Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 11, 2024
Ukraine SitRep: The ‘Sanitary Zone’ On The Northern Border With Russia

In today's Daily Report the Russian Ministry of Defense confirmed Ukrainian reports that it had launched an attack from Russia into the Kharkiv area in north-east Ukraine:


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As a result of offensive operations, units of the Sever Group of Forces have liberated Borisovka, Ogurtsovo, Pletenevka, Pylnaya, and Strelechya (Kharkov region).

Russian troops have defeated manpower and hardware of 23rd and 43rd mechanised brigades, 120th and 125th brigades of the AFU and the 15th State Border Covering Force close to Volchansk, Vesyoloye, Glubokoye, Neskuchnoye, and Krasnoye (Kharkov region).

The enemy losses were up to 170 troops, three armoured fighting vehicles, and four motor vehicles.

If the numbers in the Daily Report are somewhat correct the Ukrainian losses yesterday included 1620 dead and/or severely wounded, 21 tracked fighting vehicles and tanks, 30 trucks, 47(!) artillery pieces of various types, 4 expensive air defense systems and 6 field ammunition depots. 35 Ukrainian soldiers were taken prisoner.

These losses are about double the usual count.

The opening of a new front towards the Kharkiv region might have one or more of three purposes.

  1. To surround and eventually take Kharkiv city, the second biggest one in Ukraine.
  2. To create a buffer zone along the border to prevent Ukrainian attacks on Russian grounds.
  3. To divert Ukrainian reserves and to prevent them from joining the intensifying fight in the Donbas region.

To 1: Kharkiv has more than a million inhabitants. To surround and eventually take it would require a force of more than 100,000 soldiers. There are no observations or reports about Russian forces of that size anywhere near the larger area.

To 2: There is a lot speaking for this intent. On March 18, following several attacks by Ukraine towards Belgorod, President Putin had announced that a buffer zone would eventually be needed:

“We will be forced at some point, when we consider it necessary, to create a certain ‘sanitary zone’ on the territories controlled by the (Ukrainian government),” Putin said late Sunday.

This “security zone,” Putin said, “would be quite difficult to penetrate using the foreign-made strike assets at the enemy’s disposal.”

To 3: Diverting enemy forces from the main axis is always a benefit when intense fighting is going on. In this the operation towards Kharkiv has already been successful. The Ukrainians have ordered their reserves to move into the Kharkiv region. In yesterday's evening address the Ukrainian president Zelenski said:

"We are adding more troops to Kharkiv fronts. Both along our state border and along the entire frontline, we will invariably destroy the invaders to disrupt any Russian offensive intentions."

Thus the Kharkiv offensive seems designed to create a buffer zone, maybe 6 miles / 10 kilometers deep, on Ukrainian land along the norther border with Russia. That it diverts Ukrainian forces from elsewhere and positions them in mostly open land for their eventual destruction is just a welcome side effect.

It is my understanding that any further liberation of large cities in Ukraine will have to wait until the majority of the Ukrainian forces is utterly destroyed or defeated and incapable of resisting further onslaughts.

Comments

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 06:46:00 GMT | 193

This is why Venezuela has never mediated an Asian war, or Bali a European one. African nations mediating is laughable.

Putin entertained their request. Also, Turkey mediated early in the war. Who would Putin rather have mediate the end of the war? The African countries, or a NATO member? Also mediation is done by compromise.
USA doesnt care about world opinion, bevause it makes world opinion.
Again with the nonsensical conspiracy theories. It’s a wonder you all don’t commit mass suicide, so convinced, and paranoid, you are of American omnipotence in the world system. Do you carry tinfoil with you to keep the government from probing your mind?
Yes, absolutely the US cares about world opinion. and no, they cannot control it. They can try to shape it to their advantage, but there are limits to what they can do. A blatant treaty violation after Russia showed magnanimity will go a long way toward discrediting the US.
What is the US/NATO/West assumption about Russia’s goals in this war? That Russia wants to control all of Ukraine, something Russia denies. So, don’t give them the self-fulfilling prophecy. Give them something they don’t expect. It will be harder for the US to “spin” that narrative.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 6:56 utc | 201

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 12 2024 4:44 utc | 172
>>>Jake Blanchard: … Ukraine having still some 500k AFU still in the field. Got any proof of that number and functional composition?<<< My numbers were the various Kievan bullshit divided by 2. But I'll admit -- it could be more, or it could be less. Find me a more reputable number. Reuters: 21 Feb 2024 — Ukrainian officials have said their armed forces number around 800,000. Wiki: Ukrainian Armed Forces, Active personnel 1,000,000+ (2024) Statistica.com: Ukraine Active soldiers 900,000, Feb 2024. The UK Independent: Feb 2024. The Ukrainian army counted around 500,000 servicemen, 200,000 of which are active military personnel, recent figures show. If the figures are accurate, the Ukrainian army’s suggestion would bring the total number of servicemen after the next batch to nearly one million. >>>Are you not reading about the killing fields that Russia is setting up and “executing” as part of their advancements….I read somewhere the speculation that soon over 2+K dead per day…..you want to go stand in front of that train Jake?<<< Best figures I've seen is ~1000 per day, on average, over all fronts. You got refs for your claims? >>>Russia will get Odessa by surrender, IMO.<<< Hope so. But not certain. Could also be by surrounding and forcing capitulation. But it is, as yet, a long way off. My post was primarily intended to be indicative of a fkn lot of AFU to put out of action yet before Zelensky shows the white flag. You think he's gunna give in with even half an army to "fight on"? No. And, my other point was that Putin doesn't want that.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 7:04 utc | 202

Posted by: AI | May 12 2024 6:25 utc | 187
Jake Blanchard. Your whole thesis is flawed due to your lack of understanding of history and cruel reality on the ground.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 7:14 utc | 203

@AI | Sun, 12 May 2024 06:49:00 GMT | 195
It’s not longer 2D but 3D. To wit China-Russia-Iran
Iran isn’t a Great Power. It isn’t comparable to Russia-China, or the US. At least not yet.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 7:17 utc | 204

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 06:53:00 GMT | 196

I didnt say the insurgency needed a religious component, I said it needed religious cohesion. It can be the same religion as the oppressors, but it needs something.

It needs something. That something is opposition to x rule. Substitute Russian for x and there is your insurgency.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 7:18 utc | 205

Ex- Boris Johnson advisor:

Ukraine is a ‘corrupt shithole’ – ex-Boris Johnson advisor.
The UK and its allies got tricked into backing a “corrupt mafia state” in Ukraine and getting into a war of attrition against a Moscow-Beijing partnership, Dominic Cummings has said in an interview.
Funny, I think that Ukraine got tricked to die for “the West”.

https://twitter.com/AlternatNews/status/1789042840275759198

Posted by: unimperator | May 12 2024 7:19 utc | 206

1)Also mediation is done by compromise.
2)Again with the nonsensical conspiracy theories. It’s a wonder you all don’t commit mass suicide, so convinced, and paranoid, you are of American omnipotence in the world system. Do you carry tinfoil with you to keep the government from probing your mind?
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 6:56 utc | 198
1) Naive.
2) Troll.

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 7:26 utc | 207

Who would Putin rather have mediate the end of the war? The African countries, or a NATO member?
–james M
False choice. 1) He doesnt need to negotiate, he needs to win the war in all its dimensions, and
2) if he were to negotiate, he would start of by accepting neither, except perhaps Turkey, as Turkey has powerful leverage over NATO and Russia.
However, realistically, even if he were in the losing seat of needing to negotiate, (the one where NATO is about to park its ass in), he would have to be desperately losing to go with Turkey.
If there is going to be ANY real mediation, at this point in time, under these circumstances, it would have to be China. But that is assuming a position of weakness to start, which is nowhere near reality for Russia.
As Putin essentially said to tucker, “we are willing to negotiate. Get out of Ukraine, and we can talk”.

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 7:34 utc | 208

It’s actually all about The Black Sea. Always has been.

Posted by: Inki | May 12 2024 7:42 utc | 209

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 07:26:00 GMT | 204
We’ll see. But if Russia wants all of Ukraine, they will likely make some kind of legal argument and/or proposal in order to justify that move. Maybe after May 20, or after the collapse. So far, all of Russia’s moves regarding Ukraine have been couched in legal terms: Crimean referendum and annexation, insurgency in Donbas, recognizing the Donbas, referendums in Kherson, Donbas, and Zaporizhzhia, then annexation. But they’ve been careful not to claim all of Ukraine, yet. I don’t think that will change, but it might.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 7:45 utc | 210

The key to Natos dissolution is war between nato members. It’s ironic that it’s very expansion is what makes this likely and they expand to stop all conflicts.
But there’s many many years of the future left to live and nato is far too heterogeneous to have consensus forever. There’s a bunch of latent conflicts within nato, primarily greece and turkey but it could be anyone
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 12 2024 4:05 utc | 167
Mate, NATO going to war inside itself seems VERY unlikely to me. You realise that the glue which primarily holds NATO together is European security as conceptualised by Cold War Russophobia. Pre 2022, it was as a toy shop for US MIC with a few little excursions to keep local bad boys in check and to lever “with us or against us”. Now it has a real enemy, its raison d’etre is even more reinforced.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 7:47 utc | 211

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 07:34:00 GMT | 205

1) He doesnt need to negotiate, he needs to win the war in all its dimensions,

He’s going to have to negotiate with the US/NATO, unless you’re assuming he’s going to take the Russian army all the way to DC, via Alaska maybe?
The issue is NATO support for Ukraine, and preventing a government-in-exile, a cross-border insurgency, and whatever other mischief they can cause. As well as granting at least a veneer of legitimacy to Russian annexations.
The only way to do that is through negotiation. Russia could dictate terms more favorable to themselves, and put the onus for enforcement on NATO. The alternative is fighting NATO to the last Russian, either through total conquest of one or the other, or total nuclear annihilation of both.
I didn’t bother to read the rest of your post.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 7:54 utc | 212

He’s going to have to negotiate with the US/NATO, unless you’re assuming he’s going to take the Russian army all the way to DC, via Alaska maybe?
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 7:54 utc | 210
False choice. He can dictate terms. He doesn’t have to take D.C. to dictate term.
Absurd hypotheticals, absurd hypothetical reactions to those hypotheticals, and attempt to make your absurd hypotheticals look reasonable through false dichotomies.
And, yeah, you read the rest now. So not only am I not heartbroken, I also still dont care whether you have read what I have written or not. Especially knowing who and what you are.. I know you read it by now.
LoL

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 8:04 utc | 213

1, Putin doesnt need to negotiate, he needs to win the war in all its dimensions, and
2) if he were to negotiate, he would start off by accepting neither …
As Putin essentially said to tucker, “we are willing to negotiate. Get out of Ukraine, and we can talk”.
Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 7:34 utc | 205
Agreed.
People tend to get “talk” and “negotiate” mixed up! As you said, Putin does not need to negotiate. The West tends to use this term to indicate that they could leverage Russia unto some sort of military compromise. That’s exactly what Nuland said yesterday. Lol. No longer. There is no mediator which would satisfy Russia. Putin wants NO middle men. He’ll only pick up the phone for “talks” from only Biden or Zelensky.
To Putin, “talk” means — “We no like what you propose, we no stop”.
Lol.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 8:05 utc | 214

“The alternative is”
Seriously, stop with the hypotheticals and false dichotomies.
Have you witten even one paragraph based on reality, and not hypotheticals, and made any argument that doesn’t have a false dichotomy as a predicate this thread? Or ever? Is that just what you do to make yourself feel clever?

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 8:08 utc | 215

If you are an Ukrainian, living abroad, say Germany, and you renounce your Ukrainian nationality (вихід із громадянства). Since you then no longer are an Ukrainian, Germany can not send you back; nor can you become an army conscript. Right? Asking for a friend.

Posted by: Passerby | May 12 2024 8:12 utc | 216

Posted by: unimperator | May 12 2024 7:19 utc | 203
Cummings (#*@!) is yet another Wallace & Gromit mutant who should be obliged to perform his drag act closer to the front, wherever Akhmat special forces are on hand to aid the weary traveller, would be by advice. He can take the very many Empire chickenhawks with him, too.

Posted by: anon2020 | May 12 2024 8:14 utc | 217

Anyway, one more thought on negotiations ending the war. Russia needs (or would like very much) to give an “out” for Ukraine’s backers – US/NATO/West. I’m assuming these backers are going to want to wash their hands of Ukraine soon, especially the US. But they are going to need some kind of agreement – a face-saving gesture, to say they forced Russia “to do something.”
I think Putin will oblige them in this regard, but only after Russia’s strategic goals are met. In this way, Ukraine will truly be “Russian” in so much as Western influence will be mostly purged from it (de-Nazification). But that’s just my take, I know others will differ, vehemently so it seems, so we’ll see what happens.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 8:19 utc | 218

Whatever Russia obtains at the end of this operation will be flattened, pockmarked with artillary shells, filled with unexploded ordinance, mines, and demolished vital infrastructure. It will all have to be rebuild. In addition to all of that there will be much less craftsmen left to do the actual rebuilding.
At some point a society long supported by vital infrastruture collapses without electricity and vital servies. That being said there are many that left that could return in some sort of general amnesty at the end of this madness. These things typically ended with treaties in past history. With the NATO NEOCONS in control that outcome is questionable any time in the near future.

Posted by: circumspect | May 12 2024 8:23 utc | 219

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 08:08:00 GMT | 213

Seriously, stop with the hypotheticals and false dichotomies.
Have you witten even one paragraph based on reality, and not hypotheticals, and made any argument that doesn’t have a false dichotomy as a predicate this thread? Or ever? Is that just what you do to make yourself feel clever?

You know Dude (UW) there is a nice little blocking tool you can use if you don’t like my posts. I’ve been reliably informed that everyone should have freedom of speech on this forum, so we have to tolerate SB, Wanker Blanchard, and anyone else, even me. But if you don’t like their arguments or mine, then ignore or block their, or my, posts.
As for hypotheticals, that’s all we have at the moment. Do you know how this war will end? No. It’s a wonder what you do know. Speaking of hypotheticals, you think NATO will send troops openly, which is in of itself laughable, and not wedded to reality. Also, speaking of reality, you’re a deep state/US all-powerful hegemony, deciding public opinion conspiracist. I’m a freaking seer compared to you.
Always, always, these threads devolve into such pointless nastiness. I don’t start it anymore, I wasn’t even responding to you, but I will damn well finish them, if you want to wallow in the mud.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 8:31 utc | 220

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 7:47 utc | 209
Turkey and Greece have been at war as NATO members and it did not end NATO.
Interestingly they are also the only NATO members other than the USA that have real combat power.

Posted by: badjoke | May 12 2024 9:00 utc | 221

Thus the Kharkiv offensive seems designed to create a buffer zone, maybe 6 miles / 10 kilometers deep, on Ukrainian land along the norther border with Russia.

That sounds right. 10 km buffer zone plus the distance from the border to Belgorod would leave Belgorod out of reach for some of the most common howitzers (M777, 2S1 Gvozdika, …) that the Ukrainians have, which would increase the cost of hitting Belgorod for the Ukrainians. They would need to use more expensive MLRS and Western longer range missiles, which are better used for military targets.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | May 12 2024 9:03 utc | 222

One of Moscow’s core war aims is rollback of NATO to its 1996 membership.
Posted by: Exile | May 11 2024 19:50 utc | 97

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 9:03 utc | 223

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 9:03 utc | 221
Maybe I wasn’t that clear .. that Putin Russia is asking that the only military forces/arms on eastern nato countries are those national forces they themselves possess under their control.
No US or ‘joint Nato’ armaments, missiles, troops, aircraft deployments of any kind etc etc
Is that what Exile means?

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 9:13 utc | 224

It’s a few days old but seems relevant to both threads. So will post it on both.
https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/features/geopolitical-paradigm-shifts-and-coping-with-psychopaths

Posted by: Lantern Dude | May 12 2024 9:16 utc | 225

@badjoke | Sun, 12 May 2024 09:00:00 GMT | 219

Turkey and Greece have been at war as NATO members and it did not end NATO.
Interestingly they are also the only NATO members other than the USA that have real combat power.

Turkey and Greece, outside of the US and UK, were the only two members to meet the two percent spending threshold on defense, from like the 1970s to the 2000s. Bulgaria, after it joined, was the other one for a while, until recently. But you’re right, the only reason they spent money on their militaries was to balance each other.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 9:23 utc | 226

Yup nothing Putin can do about this. Same as NATO AWACs directing Ukie HIMARS rockets, drones to attack Russia directly.
https://sputnikglobe.com/20240512/ukraines-air-defense-from-nato-territory-german-mps-give-the-green-light–1118393587.html

Posted by: Surferket | May 12 2024 9:28 utc | 227

I don’t start it anymore, I wasn’t even responding to you, but I will damn well finish them, if you want to wallow in the mud.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 8:31 utc | 218
“Suicidal tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist” is a compliment. I totally misinterpreted your statement as a personal attack. Willy gee willikers, mr Griffith, i just assumed the words were meant out of meanness, because I assumed the worse of you. Im sorry, how bout we get a bucket of worms, and head on down to the lake.
*Starts whistling*
Cry more about how you dont start it.

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 9:50 utc | 228

you think NATO will send troops openly, which is in of itself laughable, and not wedded to reality.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 8:31 utc | 218
Really far fetched, I know. Right bar?
By the way, what has Macron been talking about lately.. ..oh yeah, his love of older women and younger men.

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 9:54 utc | 229

@psychohistorian | May 12 2024 1:54 utc | 152

I am on record of thinking Ukraine is likely to crash before May 20

I would not mind that to happen but that phrase does sound like a slight Martyanov overdose.

Posted by: Norwegian | May 12 2024 10:07 utc | 230

Yup nothing Putin can do about this. Same as NATO AWACs directing Ukie HIMARS rockets, drones to attack Russia directly.
Posted by: Surferket | May 12 2024 9:28 utc | 225

“putin” can do something about this in an asymetrical manner. see, if those nations start shooting down missiles or planes or whatever from their own nations, but simultaniously claim that they are not part of the party, this thus would enable “other” countries to shoot down stuff from, lets say nato agressors, from their countries and also claim that they are “not part of the conflict”.
i dont think those idiots in eu grasp what can of worms they are opening if they try stupid excrements like this.

Posted by: Justpassinby | May 12 2024 10:19 utc | 231

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 09:54:00 GMT | 227

Really far fetched, I know. Right bar?

Far more so than Putin negotiating an end to the war with the US/NATO. The US will blink rather than escalate, I’ve said this before. Which do you think is more likely to happen? Wanna place some money on it?

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 10:38 utc | 232

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 9:03 utc | 221
LD, I don’t remember the perfect chronology of all NATO memberships and instalations since ’91. I just took issue with Exile’s point as being PRESENTLY IRRELEVANT due to the impossibility of that now happening (going back to “1996 NATO”).
The reason I quoted Ritter is due to his excellent book “Disarmament in the Time of Peristroika” where he clearly lays out all arguments of a new Pan-EU Security Pact. Apparently, his thesis was received very well by the Kremlin, his key point being that NATO as an ideology and a military block was past its use by date.
Now, all those numpties endlessly bunging on about how “NATO is finished”, “Russia is whipping NATO’s arse”, need to answer the realpolitik question “To be replaced by WHAT?”
Ritter’s thesis is from a big picture perspective, not about NATO per se, but about Pan-European Security ***beyond*** NATO. Commonsense dictates that you cannot kick the crutch away from a cripple unless/until you replace it with some better replacement.
So … therefore … NATO is not going to go away until a viable post-NATO security structure can replace it. If RF can show via winning the SMO what a wet rag NATO is, then that task becomes easier. The trickiest part is getting the US to “surrender” to such a viewpoint. But the SMO effortlessly killing all their best weapons is playing a good part in that process thus far.
Sigh. These simple points seems to be lost on so many NATO-hating sloganeers around here.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 10:39 utc | 233

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 09:54:00 GMT | 227

By the way, what has Macron been talking about lately.. ..oh yeah, his love of older women and younger men.

Macron’s been sent to his corner by his colleagues. They ALL threw cold water on his idea of troops in theater. Come on big boy, 10k says US negotiates before they send troops. We can use bitcoin since the US government can trace dollars through the microscopic fibers interwoven in the ink, or something. Right?

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 10:42 utc | 234

Far more so than Putin negotiating an end to the war with the US/NATO. The US will blink rather than escalate, I’ve said this before. Which do you think is more likely to happen? Wanna place some money on it?
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 10:38 utc | 230
Which African (or NATO) country will be the mediator?
That’s the absurdity, as I said it was.
The further absurdity was suggesting the USA would honor the treaty, because it is afraid of world opinion.
As if it cares, since Russia is somehow the big bad guy the way most of the world talks, and then another section “wants” peace, and Russia to give back the land, and go back to status quo.
But that was the lesser of the absurd reasoning, beCause everybody knows,
USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.
So any suggestion of usa honoring any agreement, without being brought to their knees and forced to, is pollyanna patriotism or delusion, because USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 10:53 utc | 235

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 09:50:00 GMT | 226

“Suicidal tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist” is a compliment. I totally misinterpreted your statement as a personal attack.

No, it’s not a personal attack, it was a speculation, based on observation. Seriously, do you really, truly believe the US sets world opinion? That they control, what, everything? I get that you don’t like or trust the US. I get that they are a powerful hegemon/empire, and need to/will be taken down a notch or two. But do you really believe they can do everything?
I mean, think about it, seriously. That borders on the paranoid delusional, schizophrenia side.
So take a deep breath and repeat after me: The US is not infallible, the US is in fact quite vulnerable. US power is in decline, the US cannot control all events in the world, and when Russia wins in Ukraine the US will in fact lose more status and power in the international system, as it develops into a hard multipolar world.
There, feel better now. So calm down, touch grass, and do something else. So sorry I mentioned “negotiations” to you, such an expert on geopolitics, as a possible scenario that could end this war.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 10:53 utc | 236

More desperate, unhinged, or plumb stupid?
German lawmakers from both the ruling coalition and the opposition support the idea of NATO imposing a no-fly zone over western Ukraine amid the conflict with Russia, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) has reported.
For its article on Saturday, the paper asked members of parliament about the proposal, earlier floated by the defense minister’s chief of staff, Nico Lange, who suggested that Russian missiles and drones targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure and military installations could be shot down from the territory of neighboring Poland and Romania.
Marcus Faber from the Free Democratic Party (FDP), also in the ruling coalition, agreed that the “airspace over the Ukrainian border regions” could be “protected by air defenses on NATO territory.” According to Faber, this would only be “possible” if the West can secure enough ammunition for the air defense systems.
https://www.swentr.site/news/597427-germany-ukraine-nato-poland/

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 10:59 utc | 237

I mean, think about it, seriously. That borders on the paranoid delusional, schizophrenia side.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 10:53 utc | 233
Not really James M, you need to get out more if that’s your yardstick for really crazy shite. You ain;t seen nothing yet! 🙂
You know, the US does dictate global public opinion in the western sphere, and beyond. Like it does. Not always perfectly but it has everyone by the balls in some form. It’s how they dictated the narrative for Maidan and …………….. the conga line of other abuses we all know about.
Is it worth slicing and dicing how much is too much? It’s all about “perceptions” anyway. Not science.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 11:04 utc | 238

@UWDude | Sun, 12 May 2024 10:53:00 GMT | 232

USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.
So any suggestion of usa honoring any agreement, without being brought to their knees and forced to, is pollyanna patriotism or delusion, because USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.

You’re just repeating what Russia is saying, but you don’t really know why Russia is saying that. It, in itself, is designed as a negotiation tactic, to engender more favorable terms for Russia. EVERYONE negotiates in international relations, at some point.
The only question is how much a state is willing to give up, and live with, in said negotiations. In Russia’s case, they’ll going to have to live with a sovereign, but disarmed, Ukraine on its border. In the US case, they’ll have to give up Ukraine. That’s called a compromise. Russia cannot bend the US to its will, no more so than the US can do that to Russia. They will be at an impasse.
But the US will be willing to negotiate, as will Russia. I think that’s how it will play out, because the alternative leads to WWIII. JUST MY OPINION!!!!! I’m sure, you will differ, and that’s fine. You can thump your chest, and get Internet bragging rights if/when you are proved correct.
Until that time….chill out…and wait.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 11:06 utc | 239

What is an EU win? Peace from wars, cheap resources from nearby (RF), and a return of their rightful sovereignty instead of US puppetry. Duh.
Actually that’s the most interesting scenario for the eventual demise of both NATO and the EU — Germany finally realizes that it can no longer be the powerhouse of Europe without Russian energy (including Uranium for it’s restarted NPPs) and makes nice. Would be fun to see them come clean on the NS bombing giving NATO the finger as they announce their intent to work with Russia to fix & reopen it.

Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 12 2024 11:09 utc | 240

The trickiest part is getting the US to “surrender” to such a viewpoint. \
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 10:39 utc | 231
Gawd your not wrong there. It’s a mess, but neither the US or Nato nations and there arrangements are going to just disappear, so I agree.
eg Russia sure is “winning” but that doesn’t mean they have “won” or can secure what it is they wanted security wise for themselves. eg that Rollback to pre-1999 nato status. The Americans are just nuts … it’s worse than only agreement incapable, they’re effing crazy these people. They believe all this insane Russians are evil bullshit … like it was in their breast milk or something.
Hey I was suddenly jumped all over on another forum by this guy from Czech republic for making some minor point … man was seriously anti-russian off the scale reactionary …. worse than israelis committing genocide they are … I’m the wosrt in the world for thinking positive about them at all, ever, they are so dangerous and want to invade them all over again and take their country over, as wella s the rest of Europe.
With people like this, Nato isn;t going anywhere soon. THis shit is unlikely to ever end at this point. THis “division” will go on for decades – it’s like Israel and the arabs – I didn;t quote understand that before. How deep it goes.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 11:17 utc | 241

Recall that the chairman of the foreign affairs committee of the Finnish Parliament was forced to resign and apologize for a simple and reasonable sentence that said: “maybe someone should say that Ukraine should not join NATO.”
Tomas de Torquemada was an amateur. Today we are the envy of North Korea.
Evidently the ruling class in Washington, London, Amsterdam, Paris … do not determine the opinion of the whole world; but the Club of heirs of the British empire is currently the closest thing to the old USSR, in short: we have become the envy of North Korea.

Posted by: Simon | May 12 2024 11:17 utc | 242

PS Jake, and I was the ONLY person on this non-war non-politcal forum that supported him, was nice to him, and he wiped me in a moment.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 11:19 utc | 243

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 10:59 utc | 234
AFAIK ad systems are not designed to do that, patriots, as an example, has a range of more or less 30 kms. Not shure what other missiles or ad systems exists with a wider range but in the attack of Iran Vs Israel plans had to be deployed so Germans seem to be pissing in the wind, in my opinion.

Posted by: Mario | May 12 2024 11:29 utc | 244

In my 241 plans should be planes, damn corrector.

Posted by: Mario | May 12 2024 11:31 utc | 245

You’re just repeating what Russia is saying, but you don’t really know why Russia is saying that.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 11:06 utc | 236
Yeah, just repeating something I know nothing, about mindlessly.
I mean, watching the USA decide which treaties it abides by, and which ones it doesn’t, watching it make the rules up as it goes along murdering millions, for over seven decades…, watching it trash its reputation for more than thirty years.. had nothing to do with why I say, USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.
No, no. I have no idea why I say USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE, I think, like Lavrov said it, and I thought it sounded cool, the way he said it, something like “USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE”, but I have no idea why he said it. I would think it was some kind of negotiation tactic, except Lavrov and Putin are not idiots, especially since they have been the butt end of USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE many times.
And there is one thing they know, especially now that its war…
USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 11:32 utc | 246

If you followed the battles the USA fought in Aleppo and Mosul a few years back they were both fought using the same atrittion tactics the Russians use.
Posted by: HB_Norica | May 11 2024 21:17 utc | 116
Wrong, in Mossoul the yankees did not care about the civilians, which makes a huge difference with the Russians.i
Posted by: Naive | May 11 2024 23:58 utc | 138
If you read my post I was commenting on military tactics not morality. The American forces sat back and bombed the crap out of the cities in support of the proxy forces assaulting them just like the Russians do with the difference being as the war progresses the Russians are doing more the assaulting themselves instead of providing fire support to the Donbas militias. Comparing the US military’s treatment of civilians to Russia’s is relevant topic but not within the scope I was commenting on.

Posted by: HB_Norica | May 12 2024 11:47 utc | 247

In a rare amoment of sincerity, the President of Germany a few years ago said: “The United States rejects the idea of an international community.”
the Russians are absolutely right when they say that you can’t talk to the fanatics in Washington.
They reject the idea of an international community and, on top of that, Washington and its European puppets do not even accept the difference between Civilization and Barbarism.

Posted by: Simon | May 12 2024 11:49 utc | 248

James M. @236: “But the US will be willing to negotiate…”
Sure, it is easy to “negotiate” when everything you promise in the negotiations is a lie. The poster knows it is a lie, and thus the poster is lying himself. Perhaps he expects the Russians to believe the West lying through their teeth at Minsk II was just a “misunderstanding”? That would be because he is a simple-minded imperial spox operating from within a delusion bubble in which he and the rest of the marketing team for Empire are more clever than everyone else, and nobody could be smart enough to see through their brilliant efforts at deception.
No, the Russians have learned the hard way that the Empire is a pathological liar, as are all of its spox. That is what “not agreement capable” means. The Empire’s inability to honor its agreements is a pathology, not a calculated decision.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 12 2024 11:54 utc | 249

Posted by: Surferket | May 12 2024 9:28 utc | 225
————————————————-
In March, Russian President Vladimir Putin warned that the US-made F-16 fighter jets that the West is planning to supply to Ukraine will be targeted at airfields in NATO countries if they are going to operate from there.

Posted by: AI | May 12 2024 11:55 utc | 250

Lavrov’s Dog, 240
Yeah man, that’s called bigotry. Happens everywhere, all the time. I go nowhere near such people. I’ve tried calling them out here, many times. It makes ya no friends! Anyway, ya gotta let it go. I intuit you’ve got a good heart, so that’s more important than a hateful ideology. Cheers.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 11:57 utc | 251

in the attack of Iran Vs Israel planes had to be deployed so Germans seem to be pissing in the wind, in my opinion.
Posted by: Mario | May 12 2024 11:29 utc | 241
100% agree there Mario …. everything about it is coconuts.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 11:58 utc | 252

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 10:59 utc | 234
—————————————————–
Nico Lange likes sex parties [most germans do] and men.
@AI | Sun, 12 May 2024 06:49:00 GMT | 195
It’s not longer 2D but 3D. To wit China-Russia-Iran
Iran isn’t a Great Power. It isn’t comparable to Russia-China, or the US. At least not yet.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 7:17 utc | 201
————————————————
Actually is 4D, China-Russia-Iran-North Korea

Posted by: AI | May 12 2024 12:02 utc | 253

USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.
Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 11:32 utc | 243
Keep repeating it, and maybe you’ll get it…maybe. Treaties are not set in stone Dude, neither Russia nor the US can be fully trusted, or trust the other. Both parties violated the Minsk accords. But treaties do serve a purpose in regulating some state behavior, so don’t be surprised if Putin does negotiate.

Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 12:05 utc | 254

so don’t be surprised if Putin does negotiate.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 12:05 utc | 251
Putin will only negotiate in good faith if he has to because he is losing.
And he is not going to lose.
The vampire ball is over.

Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 12:09 utc | 255

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 11:57 utc | 248
Thanks very much, you too from a fellow ‘don’t suffer fools gladly’ blow hard lol.
I remembered why it struck me so much, and why I mentioned it here, the guy was a really nice person, super polite, courteous, very respectful of others, all the time to the point of being syrupy, including those who regularly insulted and abused him called him all kind of things I thought were way off base undeserving …. because he seemed genuine to me, and believed what he spoke to … anyway, once this Russia issue where i was ‘favourable’ to them arose, he quite turned into a vicious monster towards me, relative to how he responded to the other who had been dumping on him for months.
It’s not that I got offended, (it was no big deal to me) it was the power of that change that came over him once the topic was Russia, that really struck me. Only an anecdote, I can;t assume all are like that but gosh it was a heads up of how much real hate there is in ‘some of’ these eastern Europeans for Russia.
blah blah had to be there kind of a moment. Best

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 12:09 utc | 256

What I understood that as is a Roll Back of Major Nato Arms and Troop Deployments beyond the BORDER of Nato nations as that was in ~1996 before any expansion to the east.
Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 9:03 utc | 221
As stipulated in the NATO Russia Founding Act. Which NATO broke in 2016 by sending battle groups to Poland and the Baltics – at least it was de facto broken, since a loophole was exploited by sending troops on a rotational basis, thus technically non-“permanent”.
Still, Moscow didn’t seem to bother too much about these ~4.000 soldiers. Much less than about the missile bases in Poland and Romania. Depends on the type of weapons deployed close to Russia’s border, apparently.
Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 10:59 utc | 234
Mario | May 12 2024 11:29 utc | 241
This probably has more to do with German domestic politics than anything else. They know full well that the chancellor + his party will never agree, but want to set themselves apart, gain leverage etc. As with Macron’s bellicist rhetoric, I can’t help but wonder whether the real aim is to control the (European) debate, so as not to let unhinged Baltics + Brits set its tone.

The UK and its allies got tricked into backing a “corrupt mafia state” in Ukraine and getting into a war of attrition against a Moscow-Beijing partnership, Dominic Cummings has said in an interview.
unimperator | May 12 2024 7:19 utc | 203
Quite bold, or rather disgusting, given that it was him who forced BoJo to escalate the war. It’s easily forgotten (i.e. was memory-holed) that in late February 2022 BoJo was just weeks, maybe days from having to step down due to his ‘Covid parties’. That scandal was fuelled by the indiscretions of a certain Mr. Cummings.

Posted by: smuks | May 12 2024 12:19 utc | 257

Intel Slava Z on a missile strike on an apartment building in Belgorod:
https://t.me/s/intelslava
Number of victims so far is 18 though sadly it is likely to rise.

Posted by: HeyHeyHey | May 12 2024 12:23 utc | 258

RT: Multi-story building in Belgorod partly collapses after Ukrainian strike

Posted by: vargas | May 12 2024 12:25 utc | 259

@ James M. | May 12 2024 12:05 utc | 251
Get your context straight. Russia was the only Minsk party to actually start implementing its side of the agreement. Russia and Belarus leaders who physically put their signatures were also the only ones who did not later publicly brag about never intending to fulfill Minsk.
Your point revolves around the concept of “negotiations in a vacuum”, ignoring all context of why it would be an insanity do the same thing again while expecting a different result.

Posted by: boneless | May 12 2024 12:25 utc | 260

All you need to know is a farce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Guaid%C3%B3

Posted by: steve | May 12 2024 12:28 utc | 261

Actually that’s the most interesting scenario for the eventual demise of both NATO and the EU — Germany finally realizes that it can no longer be the powerhouse of Europe without Russian energy (including Uranium for it’s restarted NPPs) and makes nice.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 12 2024 11:09 utc | 237
Germany can’t do anything that isn’t approved by US and US wants them out from all markets and without cheap energy. EU will be milked dry, not only Germany. Some companies, like BASF I think, already opened factories in China. That will bring their owners great profits (cheap workers and even cheaper energy), so they don’t want to go back to what was before either. Others moved and will move to US, the rest will go bankrupt in just a few years. But there are no protests so people must love it, maybe they volunteer to go to Ukr too. The only protests Germany has these days are with the Tesla factory expansion, so I guess they really don’t want new jobs either.
Russia sure is “winning” but that doesn’t mean they have “won” or can secure what it is they wanted security wise for themselves
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 12 2024 11:17 utc | 238
That is true but a part of it is the result of long term nato ass kissing, like some youtube talking heads like to say “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”.
As for the future, look at Trumpy’s recently published plan for when he returns. It says he’ll continue weapons supplies to Ukr if Ukr starts negotiations with Russia, Ukr can demand old borders back and if Russia accepts what Ukr wants, maybe he will remove some of the sanctions.

Posted by: rk | May 12 2024 12:29 utc | 262

https://thefloutist.substack.com/p/report-from-donbas?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=112164&post_id=144534657&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=gjqol&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
The Floutist is Patrick Lawrence’s substack page. The link above has the report from a veteran Swiss journalist who recently traveled from Rostov to the Donbas, speaking with locals. The first installment of a two part series.

Posted by: KMRIA | May 12 2024 12:32 utc | 263

What kind of idiot would ever sign such a stupid deal?
You aren’t serious are you with that proposal are you?
Posted by: Julian | May 11 2024 13:3
Yes.FM lavrov is very eager man to be in good books of British and a Erica anglos. He will sign any thing away.

Posted by: Sam | May 12 2024 12:33 utc | 264

rk | May 12 2024 12:29 utc | 259
I forgot to post this link in my post above ( sputnikglobe.com/20240512/ukraines-air-defense-from-nato-territory-german-mps-give-the-green-light–1118393587.html )
“Several German MPs have approved the idea of Western “cross-border” anti-aircraft units shooting down Russian missiles over Ukraine”

Posted by: rk | May 12 2024 13:02 utc | 265

Posted by: rk | May 12 2024 13:02 utc | 262
==============
Another brilliant idea: how pretending to not be part of the conflict while destroying Russian missiles firing from your own territory.

Posted by: scc | May 12 2024 13:09 utc | 266

Willy daily:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTg3R6SMwwA
Kharkiv:
DS shows RFA control (not just gray zone) of two northern salient.
[FWIW, I think DS was right to wait a day before going full on red. The first day might be BMPs rolling around on a raid. In this area, at least, they are updating reasonably quickly/honestly.]
Some discussion of purpose of the move.
[My take is it’s just general pressure and “nibbling what you can nibble”. Not a “big arrow” move.]
[Even if they go after Kharkiv, it would take many months, probably over a year, given the very slow rate of advance on the modern battlefield. Look at how long it took to take Bakhmut or Avdiivka. And how long Chasiv Yar is sitting there. Nothing wrong with nibbling what you can nibble. If that’s the best you can do, you do it. Possibly there is some PR value…make the little NAFO doggies sad, e.g.]
FWIW, Willy agrees (watched later) with my view…that even if a big move on Kharkiv developed, it would be the sort of grind we have seen previously. And that’s not because armies LIKE moving slow. It’s because armies can’t advance without the protective cover of their artillery and EW and support. Not on this modern battlefield with lots of drones and fortifications and with RFA not having real dominance.
Speculation that UFA may withdraw to strong lines, giving up the border zone.
Suriyak shows similar, but slightly different areas of red at border zone.
Bridge in the area (unclear who blew it yesterday) confirmed as RFA blowing it. It’s pretty deep and far from their advances, so main benefit is trying to reduced UFA ability to resupply the front. Not something RFA would want near term.
Kraz: DS map updated to show Kraz progress. Willy sees this not as a new advance (Suriyak unchanged), but just DS being part of the infowar and biased (to wait a week for showing advance). “Trickle update”.
Motorbike video: This is part of the evolution of methods in the Ukraine theater. RFA using them more and more.
Marinka/Heorhivka: Suriyak shows a small RFA avance. DS unchanged.
Ugledar: DS showing RFA advance on the front pocket to the SE of city. No other mappers confirm.
Pervomaiske: Suriyak shows some fields advanced. DS does not.
Chasiv Yar: Both DS and Suriyak show advances in forest near Ivaniske. DS slightly more.
[Nothing at Robotyne or Krinky.]

Posted by: Anonymous | May 12 2024 13:15 utc | 267

Note that the point about the confirmed RFA bridge blowing is a data point on the “grinding advance” versus “big arrow” advance. It shows RFA prioritizing small near term objectives, not deep ones.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 12 2024 13:18 utc | 268

The Russian Army uses new tactics near Kharkov
Near Kharkov, due to the low saturation of the front line with infantry from the Ukrainian Armed Forces, our fighters in small infantry groups during these days of the offensive bypassed the enemy’s strongholds, actually surrounding them and forcing them to surrender without a fight. This was the reason for the rapid offensive and the large number of prisoners who fell into our hands. Military journalist Yuri Podolyaka reports this.
The enemy himself notes the good interaction of Russian army units on the battlefield. This makes it possible to carry out offensive operations to a sufficiently large depth without stopping for a break and clarifying the situation.
And this is truly a completely new form of offensive for our army. This has never happened before.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/97838

Posted by: Norwegian | May 12 2024 13:18 utc | 269

266:
The border zone is essentially a gray zone. So yes, UFA has small/few forces there. They are a few miles back in terms of numbers and stronger presence.
The key really is if RFA can (a) either advance through strong lines. Or at least (b) hold the gray zone themselves–it lacks lots of forts and is threatened by both sides artillery and drones…so is susceptible to counterattacks by either side.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 12 2024 13:23 utc | 270

Here NATO made the same mistake as Nazi Germany in WW II.
As Nazi Germany moved further into the east of Europe and the Soviet Union (1939 – 1942) the length of the eastern frontline became longer and longer. Nazi Germany simply wasn’t able to produce sufficient amounts of arms to defend that very long eastern frontline. that’s why the Wehrmacht’s army group North had to resort to the siege of Leningrad almost 3 years.
Nazi Germany made some very good tanks but it wasn’t able to produce them in sufficient quantities to win the war. Currently the Ukraine and NATO are facing the same problems as Nazi Germany did in WW II.
Russia has the same problem as well and that has forced Russia to produce cheaper arms but in large enough quantities. See e.g. the extensive use of russian drones at the frontline(s) right now.

Posted by: WMG | May 12 2024 13:29 utc | 271

I get that you don’t like or trust the US. I get that they are a powerful hegemon/empire, and need to/will be taken down a notch or two. But do you really believe they can do everything?
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 10:53 utc | 233
The Illusion of Power can be as effective as real power – until one draws the curtain back. They count on people buying into the image, or at least resigning themselves to the inevitability of US power – that every setback is “part of the plan.” If this is all a shadow play for the masses, then I ask: Why bother with the theatrics, if they really control everything – or at least everything that matters? Clearly they do not control everything. The curtain is being drawn back. They fear and despise the masses and have competitors at the top of the power pyramid.
Not that the US does not remain one of the most powerful nations in real terms, but its “eyes are bigger than its stomach,” so to speak.

Posted by: Activist Potato | May 12 2024 13:46 utc | 272

“Good point, Mary. Scotland’s comment seems to subtley promote the idea that the US actually has some ethical concerns, which any sane person knows is an absolute propaganda lie meant to cover it’s direct involvement and support for the genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza.”
Ahenobarbus (45).
Really!
That’s a leap of the imagination of ever I saw one, we all know Biden is okay with the genocide, I was pointing out the pretence in their complicity and their double standards, in feigning concern for the Palestinians as opposed to just sending weapons to Ukraine.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 12 2024 13:58 utc | 273

If you are an Ukrainian, living abroad, say Germany, and you renounce your Ukrainian nationality (вихід із громадянства). Since you then no longer are an Ukrainian, Germany can not send you back; nor can you become an army conscript. Right? Asking for a friend.
Posted by: Passerby | May 12 2024 8:12 utc | 217
_____
Depends on how difficult it would be to renounce 404 citizenship. To renounce US citizenship, for instance, it’s necessary to be interviewed twice (at least once in person) by US consular officials and pay a steep fee (currently $2350) — and the US reserves the right to reject renunciation requests.
If 404 has similar requirements and I were a 404 citizen in Germoney, I’m not sure I’d want to go anywhere near the 404 consulate/embassy (which could easily send me back to 404), assuming my renunciation wouldn’t be rejected, and I might not be able to afford the fee, to say nothing of the inevitable bribes.

Posted by: malenkov | May 12 2024 14:09 utc | 274

Putin will only negotiate in good faith if he has to because he is losing.
And he is not going to lose.
The vampire ball is over.
Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 12:09 utc | 256

So.. That would mean than when he asked for negotiations in march 22, he was losing ?
I would-nt be so sure, if I were you, that Putin won’t ever negotiate. The very fact that he was ready to go for a third try in march 22, after the catastrophic failures of Minsk-I and II, should make us quite cautious.

Posted by: Micron | May 12 2024 14:54 utc | 275

USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.
So any suggestion of usa honoring any agreement, without being brought to their knees and forced to, is pollyanna patriotism or delusion, because USA IS NOT AGREEMENT CAPABLE.
Posted by: UWDude | May 12 2024 10:53 utc | 236

I guess that’s why, after a few weeks of conflict, Putin felt quite satisfied about negotiating an agreement with those very “agreement-incapable” partners. An agreement which only failed because the UK and the US went for maximalist goals. If it wasn’t for this, Putin would have signed yet another “Fetzen Papier”.

Posted by: Micron | May 12 2024 14:55 utc | 276

Posted by: Passerby | May 12 2024 8:12 utc | 217

If you are an Ukrainian, living abroad, say Germany, and you renounce your Ukrainian nationality (вихід із громадянства). Since you then no longer are an Ukrainian, Germany can not send you back; nor can you become an army conscript. Right? Asking for a friend.

I think that Germany has some sort of law that prevents sending refugees back to the war zone. Nevertheless, if your friend feels uncomfortable in Germany out of fear being deported back to Ukraine, the best would be to move to a safer country in that regard, say Hungary or perhaps Austria.

Posted by: hopehely | May 12 2024 15:16 utc | 277

Re: Posted by: HeyHeyHey | May 12 2024 12:23 utc | 259

Intel Slava Z on a missile strike on an apartment building in Belgorod:
https://t.me/s/intelslava
Number of victims so far is 18 though sadly it is likely to rise.

Hang on, isn’t the buffer zone in Kharkov supposed to stop this sort of thing hitting Belgorod??!?

Posted by: Julian | May 12 2024 15:18 utc | 278

Re: Posted by: Micron | May 12 2024 14:54 utc | 276

I would-nt be so sure, if I were you, that Putin won’t ever negotiate. The very fact that he was ready to go for a third try in march 22, after the catastrophic failures of Minsk-I and II, should make us quite cautious.

It is my firm belief, which I have stated many times, that Putin will negotiate – in 2025 – with the agreement incapable West – perhaps after the man who uttered that statement (Lavrov) has moved on.
I suspect many at the Bar will continue to slander me for saying this, but given past experience – it’s precisely what I expect.
I also strongly suspect whatever agreement is signed in 2025 (likely signed) will fall far short of the maximalist goals expressed around here and will leave many barflies disappointed and spitting chips.
I guess I have about 18 months to be proved right or wrong on that prediction – don’t worry, I’ll be here next year to take a victory lap when I’m proven correct! lol

Posted by: Julian | May 12 2024 15:26 utc | 279

Intel Slava Z on a missile strike on an apartment building in Belgorod:
https://t.me/s/intelslava
Number of victims so far is 18 though sadly it is likely to rise.
Hang on, isn’t the buffer zone in Kharkov supposed to stop this sort of thing hitting Belgorod??!?
Posted by: Julian | May 12 2024 15:18 utc | 279
You’re a troll, dancing on the graves of murdered people.
No one here gives the slightest fuck about your pompous prognostications. You are totally irrelevant.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | May 12 2024 15:31 utc | 280

I think that Germany has some sort of law that prevents sending refugees back to the war zone.
Posted by: hopehely | May 12 2024 15:16 utc | 278
_____
Except that once you’re on 404 consular property, 404 law and not German law applies.

Posted by: malenkov | May 12 2024 15:39 utc | 281

I think that Germany has some sort of law that prevents sending refugees back to the war zone.
Posted by: hopehely | May 12 2024 15:16 utc | 278

meh, lets be honest about this. the german government can simply say that it is not a warzone, as russia has not declared war to ukraine, thus circumventing the issue.
thats usually the thing our value west does. invert the meaning of something, use some legalese horse manure to rebrand x into y to get around the issue of x beeing “not good”.
and since the german media always loves to cite “russian missile terror”, the population will swallow this dance around the bushes by believing its not a war, its simply terrorism, thus whatever odalf scholzler and his cabinet of nazis decides to do is a-ok!

Posted by: Justpassinby | May 12 2024 15:44 utc | 282

@ Posted by: Passerby | May 12 2024 8:12 utc | 217
I expect that there will be many more workers hailing from Ukraine on cruise ships around the world.
9 month contract. Free room and board. No worries about being removed, if you stay on ship in Europe ports. Free to go ashore when allowed in other parts of the world.
Can always re-up another 9 months if things haven’t settled down.
Some companies will also take married couples, as long as both are workers.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | May 12 2024 15:51 utc | 283

@badjoke | Sun, 12 May 2024 09:00:00 GMT | 219
Turkey and Greece have been at war as NATO members and it did not end NATO. Interestingly they are also the only NATO members other than the USA that have real combat power.
Turkey and Greece, outside of the US and UK, were the only two members to meet the two percent spending threshold on defense, from like the 1970s to the 2000s. Bulgaria, after it joined, was the other one for a while, until recently. But you’re right, the only reason they spent money on their militaries was to balance each other.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 9:23 utc | 227

A few weeks ago Greece decided not to send some weapons to Ukraine, after first saying it would. Likely reason is that it needed said weapons for its own defense, against Turkey. Now if Russia operated like the US, it would send its operatives to Cyprus and stir up some real trouble there, get Greece and Turkey at each others throats. . .

Posted by: Mike R | May 12 2024 16:12 utc | 284

Posted by: Mr B | May 12 2024 0:27 utc | 143
What u say may be possible. Imo it’s seriously improbable tho. Russia’s losses may be higher than what they let on, yet the west has lied about everything every step of the way and to believe their numbers is just silly.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | May 12 2024 16:52 utc | 285

Now if Russia operated like the US, it would send its operatives to Cyprus and stir up some real trouble there, get Greece and Turkey at each others throats. . .
Posted by: Mike R | May 12 2024 16:12 utc | 285
Wikipedia
“Cyprus was placed under the United Kingdom’s administration based on the Cyprus Convention in 1878 and was formally annexed by the UK in 1914. The future of the island became a matter of disagreement between the two prominent ethnic communities, Greek Cypriots, who made up 77% of the population in 1960, and Turkish Cypriots, who made up 18% of the population.
In 1915, Britain offered Cyprus to Greece, ruled by King Constantine I of Greece, on condition that Greece join the war on the side of the British. The offer was declined. In 1923, under the Treaty of Lausanne, the nascent Turkish republic relinquished any claim to Cyprus,[76] and in 1925 it was declared a British crown colony.[47] During the Second World War, many Greek and Turkish Cypriots enlisted in the Cyprus Regiment.
Following nationalist violence in the 1950s, Cyprus was granted independence in 1960.[18] The crisis of 1963–64 brought further intercommunal violence between the two communities, displaced more than 25,000 Turkish Cypriots into enclaves[19]: 56–59 [20]”
So I assume that the forever war on Cyprus is like the troubles in Irland where MI6 worked on both sides. The British military bases were used for bombing Gaza and the defence of the Zionist occupiers in Palestina against Iran’s retaliation.
A country with foreign bases is not soverign.

Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 12 2024 17:44 utc | 286

Ukro-Nazis: ”We needs weapons! Give me weapons!”
pEU-USUK: ”OK, here you go”
And the day the weapons are delivered the Ukro-Nazis use them for terrorist attacks on civilians.
That’s all you need to know about the Ukro-Nazis and their coprophagic NAFO dog cheerleaders here in the discussion. Ignorant bitches (gender fluid NAFO dogs?) think murdered civilians are points in their favor. Foolish mouth-breathers are too stupid to understand that counts against them.
”Russians are weak because they deliberately try to avoid civilian casualties! We’re strong because we deliberately target civilians! Stupid Russians!”
Yeah, psychotic, but that is really where the West is these days.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 12 2024 18:33 utc | 287

Re: NATO rollback
Moscow’s war aims are described in the peace proposal of Dec 2021. Useful to revisit.
BTW – De-Dollarization brings peace.

Posted by: Exile | May 12 2024 20:18 utc | 288

So.. That would mean than when he asked for negotiations in march 22, he was losing ?
I would-nt be so sure, if I were you, that Putin won’t ever negotiate. The very fact that he was ready to go for a third try in march 22, after the catastrophic failures of Minsk-I and II, should make us quite cautious.
Posted by: Micron | May 12 2024 14:54 utc | 276
—-
March 2022 were vastly different times. Negotiations back then were based on Putin’s preferred hopes not to have to fight a longer war over the far smaller desires to just secure the DPR and LPR people.
At that time, he believed Zelensky was capable to honour a deal. But EVERYTHING SINCE has repeatedly shown he is a US puppet. Hence Putin’s multiple-proven mantra that the West can’t be trusted.
Minsk was not a US deal (overtly, on paper) — only France and Germany and Ukraine. Today it’s EVERYBODY LYING to Russia. Negotiation is far further from possible.
And people ignore THE RESULTS of a fake negotiation to end the SMO — a sneaky build up and future war against Russia. No negotiation could stop forever Ukraine’s belief it owns Crimea and some Black Sea Coast, nor get it to demilitarise completely nor wipe ideas of joining NATO.
Imo, only brute force and a humiliating crushing defeat can keep the West out of Russia’s hair for the long term.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 12 2024 21:39 utc | 289

chronic | May 13 2024 0:17 utc | 160
“Opposite Day”. Nah. I was watching Gaetz performance on c-span. (Ie, not reading a report of what he’s alleged to have said. But what he was actually saying)
He’s furious the U$ is being pushed out of Niger, furious the Russians “are inside the wire”, furious “Biden”/State Dept have hidden what’s happening in Niger and furious the Pentagon have been “abandoned” in Niger.
Go watch his actual theatrics.
[my search history isn’t spitting out the clip I watched yesterday. But this is close.] (if I find the actual clip I watched. I’ll post it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAIuWbBQ9GM

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 13 2024 1:16 utc | 290

@Exile | Sun, 12 May 2024 20:18:00 GMT | 289

Moscow’s war aims are described in the peace proposal of Dec 2021. Useful to revisit.

Here’s the link: https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/
Wikipedia has a summary:
A legally binding guarantee that NATO would not admit any new members, especially Ukraine and Georgia, and that it would not deploy any additional troops or weapons in the existing member states.
A revision of the 1997 NATO–Russia Founding Act, which regulates the military activities and cooperation between NATO and Russia, and a withdrawal of NATO’s infrastructure and capabilities from the territories that were not part of NATO as of 1997.
A moratorium on the deployment of intermediate-range and shorter-range missiles in Europe, and a dialogue on strategic stability and arms control.
A reform of the OSCE to make it more representative, inclusive, and effective in addressing the security challenges and conflicts in Europe.

Looks like they were willing to negotiate with the agreement incapable US. I suspect the final draft, when the war is done, will look similar, except for recognizing Russian territorial annexation of parts of Ukraine, including Odessa, and anything else they might add. “I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it further” will be Putin’s mantra.

Posted by: James M. | May 13 2024 6:47 utc | 291

Both parties violated the Minsk accords.
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 12:05 utc | 255
Both parties eh? The only way anyone can honestly take this view in my opinion would be if the Russia invades Ukraine Wikipedia is your primary source. Russia might “negotiate” however it will really be dictating terms. Negotiation thats an off ramp for NATO.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | May 13 2024 22:43 utc | 292

@Tannenhouser | Mon, 13 May 2024 22:43:00 GMT | 293
Yes, both parties. And, no wikipedia is not my “primary” source. Here is the original text, Article 9 of Minsk II:
Annex II to the letter dated 24 February 2015 from the Permanent
Representative of Ukraine to the United Nations addressed to the
President of the Security Council
9. All foreign military formations and military equipment, as well as
militants and mercenaries, are to exit the territory of Ukraine under OSCE
monitoring.
Participants of the Trilateral Contact Group:
(Signed) Heidi Tagliavini,
Ambassador
(Signed) L. D. Kuchma,
Second President of Ukraine
(Signed) M. Y. Zurabov,
Ambassador of the Russian Federation to Ukraine

Signed by Russia. I am sure Russia removed all of their equipment, and any personnel, including disbanding the Donbas militias, and any mercenaries in theater, just as the US/NATO did the same. Oh, wait they didn’t? https://khpg.org/en/1476316494 Wow, shocking.
I don’t necessarily blame Russia, since they couldn’t trust the US, and they were backed into a corner, but to sit there and say that the Russians were totally blameless, and had zero violations of Minsk, is…inaccurate.

Posted by: James M. | May 14 2024 1:30 utc | 293

@James M. | Tue, 14 May 2024 01:30:00 GMT | 294

just as the US/NATO did the same.

And yes, this statement should be taken as sarcasm. I know that it’s difficult for some posters here to understand that.

Posted by: James M. | May 14 2024 1:34 utc | 294

“Russia cannot bend the US to its will, no more so than the US can do that to Russia. They will be at an impasse.
But the US will be willing to negotiate, as will Russia. I think that’s how it will play out”
Posted by: James M. | May 12 2024 11:06 utc | 240
While I agree with your basic point that Russia will negotiate with the US, I think you overestimate the US’ leverage.
In both Afghanistan and Vietnam, the US essentially got taken for a ride because both the Vietnamese and Afghan parties knew the US was burned out and would do nothing to enforce the agreements (Paris Accords and Doha Agreement).
In both cases, the US’ opposition upheld nothing and the US did nothing to stop said violation. When the US inevitably runs out of will to fight over Ukraine, Russia can dictate the de facto terms.

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | May 14 2024 3:09 utc | 295

@let’s get bizzay | Tue, 14 May 2024 03:09:00 GMT | 296

In both cases, the US’ opposition upheld nothing and the US did nothing to stop said violation. When the US inevitably runs out of will to fight over Ukraine, Russia can dictate the de facto terms.

I don’t disagree. I think Russia will get nearly all of what they want from the US. However, the US is going to need a bone of some kind, that bone might be the rump of western Ukraine – disarmed of course, bereft of coastline, and permanently neutral – but not absorbed as a formal part of Russia, or in a “union” with Russia. That’s all I’ve been saying.

Posted by: James M. | May 14 2024 4:04 utc | 296

” Don Bacon on Open Thread 2021-91
in the news…. For First Time, Half of Americans Favor Defending Taiwan If China Invades Wow, I must have missed the vote. . .half of Americans want more war, this time to defend a China renegade province!! This analysis is based on data
Comment by Don Bacon | November 24, 2021 at 19:23 | Permalink ”
How many Americans know where Taiwan is? Or that it’s NOT Thailand?

Posted by: lester | May 16 2024 20:46 utc | 297