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May 13, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-138
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Ukraine. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
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If West Wants to Settle Ukrainian Conflict on Battlefield, Russia Ready – Lavrov https://sputnikglobe.com/20240513/if-west-wants-to-settle-ukrainian-conflict-on-battlefield-russia-ready—lavrov-1118406912.html Posted by: Laurence | May 13 2024 16:19 utc | 1 I just saw this myself, y’all might already know about it. Posted by: McAgnew | May 13 2024 16:26 utc | 2 Posted by: McAgnew | May 13 2024 16:26 utc | 2 Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 13 2024 16:42 utc | 3 Allow me to anticipate the flood of troll comments sponsored by shekels and “smart” boys: Posted by: They Call Me Mister | May 13 2024 16:50 utc | 4 Well he got to replace Patrushev which is higher task and he took all the procurement unit with him too. Just read Pepe Escobar telegram and you (McAgnew) won’t have to worry. Posted by: Galant | May 13 2024 16:51 utc | 5 Today’s Russian Defence Ministry report, with a horrendous number of Ukrainian troop losses, ~1400: https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12512793@egNews
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 16:54 utc | 6
Money printer goes brrrrrrrrrrr… Ukrainians just go “Brr!”. Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 17:12 utc | 7 Doctorow is always worth reading, softly spoken and directly from Russia his overall impressions are full of revealing details. And his opinion is that corruption in the Ministry of Defense did it to Shoigu, plus I insist family problems that during times of war are not very well received by the general population. And that is why Prigozhin got the regular folks ear, we still do not know the full details of the supposed insurrection, probably we will never know, sort of a JFK event. Doctorow’s general impression is that Russia is succeeding in providing guns and butter. Another aspect to be considered is Shoigu’s origin, from Tuva the most depressed and impoverished region in Russia and a big provider of manpower to the armed forces, maybe that’s the reason why Putin kept him on in spite of the scandals, but time to efficiently manage resources has come and it seems the new guy is there right choice for the task. Posted by: Paco | May 13 2024 17:23 utc | 8 The Duran’s latest goes into even more depth on Shoigu’s legacy as a civilian head of the Russian Military and his achievements and his new position and it’s responsibilities: Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 13 2024 17:24 utc | 9 They Call Me Mister@4….the money isn’t in any printing machine, its in Russia’s resources…west will play long game, Russia can kill, kill, kill and wait, for the collapse or west drags out long enough for it get to some ammo parity, the Brits signed on for 100 years, that’s long game again, so maybe in 5 to 7 years, west will still be agitating Russia and if grinder can maintain minimum supply, times no territory taken, no one, save for a few kind hearted souls, no one cares a Fiddler’s fig how many Ukie die on any given day. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 13 2024 17:24 utc | 10 west will play long game Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 13 2024 17:35 utc | 11
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | May 13 2024 16:50 utc | 4 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 17:47 utc | 12 Apparently the F-16’s will arrive “within a month”. I’m thinking they waited until now to make sure they didn’t go on display in Moscow earlier this month. Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 13 2024 18:02 utc | 13 Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 13 2024 18:02 utc | 13 Posted by: bored | May 13 2024 18:07 utc | 14 Just here to pop in and claim to have been the originator of ‘the shit show continues until it doesnt‘ turn of phrase in one of my first comments on MoA, though certainly Im not the first to ever say it, I am happy our resident Seldon found it compelling, fellows, taking a bow and all. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 13 2024 18:10 utc | 15
The question is, how many of its 15 soldiers can Estonia spare? So many questions. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 13 2024 18:13 utc | 16 @ bored, §14: Posted by: John Marks | May 13 2024 18:19 utc | 17 Paco | May 13 2024 17:23 utc | 8–
Missing was the usual attendance roster. I wrote an anticipation of the need to draw the Near Abroad closer to Mother Russia based on what I was reading and events I was seeing. The EAEU Supreme Economic Council Summit was very revealing in that regard as well as recent CIS and CSTO meetings.
IMO, the discussion centered around how the new players would interact with the already existing structure as neither Manturov or Chemezov are going anywhere. Rather, take note how this meeting isn’t included in any of the sensationalized news reports. The decrees as published by the Kremlin regarding Patrushev and Shoigu are just dry notices devoid of any real meaning, but the press is using “removed” as a pejorative. Pundits must flap their gums and lips just as in the West, unfortunately. My impression from the region was that Finns were seen by fellow Scandinavians as “Russians”, and that Lithuanians were seen by Russians as “Germans”. Posted by: Passerby | May 13 2024 18:33 utc | 19 Ukraine’s allies are stepping up. Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 13 2024 18:35 utc | 20 @ Doctor Eleven | May 13 2024 18:10 utc | 15 who doesn’t seem to know that I have been commenting here for more than a decade and seriously doubt that your use of the shit show phrase I have been throwing out for years is your original. Posted by: psychohistorian | May 13 2024 18:36 utc | 21 I think it is possible that Shoigu is being side-lined to make way for return of Surovikin. Posted by: jared | May 13 2024 18:39 utc | 22 Sorry psychohistorian you had said so yourself at the time, noting you were going to ‘steal that’. Offered the thought as camaraderie. But given the weird hostility shown, I’ll keep thoughts to myself. Have fun kids. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 13 2024 18:44 utc | 23 About coup attempts, turmoil and caos manufacturing by US Intel in ukraine: Posted by: Mry | May 13 2024 18:44 utc | 24 At the risk of another beating of the dead Ukrainian Horse: Posted by: kupkee | May 13 2024 19:03 utc | 25 Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 13 2024 18:10 utc | 15 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 19:07 utc | 26 1500 casualties/day equals 15k every 10 days and if sustained 45k/month. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 13 2024 19:14 utc | 27 The west need a long bloody war and they have it. In spite of financial problems they can still print money. Posted by: vargas | May 13 2024 19:16 utc | 28 Meanwhile on the Comedy Channel, ‘Russia loses biggest single day loss since the start of the war … https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1898506/russia-ukraine-war-losses-highest-day Posted by: Christian J Chuba | May 13 2024 19:25 utc | 29 Posted by: vargas | May 13 2024 19:16 utc | 28 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 19:27 utc | 30 Paco | May 13 2024 17:23 utc | 8 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 13 2024 19:32 utc | 31 Posted by: Ed4 | May 13 2024 12:51 utc | 277 Posted by: IhaveseenanUFO | May 13 2024 19:34 utc | 32 is sending another Patriot system and more Iris-Ts. Posted by: rk | May 13 2024 19:37 utc | 33 Posted by: Christian J Chuba | May 13 2024 19:25 utc | 29 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 19:48 utc | 34 Posted by: IhaveseenanUFO | May 13 2024 19:34 utc | 32 Posted by: Ed4 | May 13 2024 20:06 utc | 35 AFP: US sanctions test China’s ‘no limits’ friendship with Russia Posted by: vargas | May 13 2024 20:06 utc | 36 Peter AU1 | May 13 2024 19:32 utc | 31– is sending another Patriot system and more Iris-Ts. Posted by: too scents | May 13 2024 20:16 utc | 38 Ironic. Doesn’t the general population get what is happening? They are being sacrificed by the Tel Aviv leaders (and US Zionists). The Ukrainians are being subjected to continuously worsening conditions by the day, motivated to accept their dismal fate of ritual satanic sacrifice by the falsehood ‘protect your country’. While the Tel Aviver’s kids are safely esconced abroad in abs I’ll lute luxury, partying with American money. The poor Ukrainian saps continue to die by the 10s even 100s of thousands without the ghought occuring to them that they are just cannon fodder. The irony of it is the Tel Avivers have the brainwashed population and convinced them that their brother and sister slavs are the enemy. Posted by: Áobh Ò’Sheachnasaigh | May 13 2024 20:17 utc | 39 It is the question at which moment China is going to reduce its support to Russia. Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 13 2024 20:20 utc | 40 The irony of it is the Tel Avivers have the brainwashed population and convinced them that their brother and sister slavs are the enemy. Posted by: too scents | May 13 2024 20:20 utc | 41 Posted by: Ed4 | May 13 2024 20:06 utc | 35 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 20:22 utc | 42 Re: Shoigu Posted by: William Gruff | May 13 2024 20:25 utc | 43 This is why everyone wants to join NATO. They actually look after each other. Posted by: Passerby | May 13 2024 20:30 utc | 44 The delusions of the Western politicians continue even on this website…though it’s an oasis of sanity generally..Sending the unreliable Patriot system or two is worth zero to the Ukrainians, as are the always promised deliveries of the antiquated F-16, which can only fly from runways in neighboring NATO members… those countries being probably very leery of Russian missiles… Posted by: pyrrhus | May 13 2024 20:38 utc | 45 RUAF control the settlement west of Vovchansk and all bridges between Vovchansk and Kharkov are either controlled by RUAF or destroyed. Reminder that the nazi battalions were sent to defend Vovchansk (undoubtedly a convenient opportunity to get rid of them). Posted by: unimperator | May 13 2024 20:40 utc | 46 An interesting factoid hoisted from a comment over at Naked Capitalism. US and EU electricity demand FELL in 2023. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 13 2024 20:41 utc | 47 No ‘bored’ the west cannot win the long game, because its long game-imperialism- is coming to an end after centuries in which it plundered Asia, Africa and America. Posted by: bevin | May 13 2024 20:46 utc | 48 Dima said AFU is stripping most experienced brigades from all over the front to send to Kharkov. Also most of these brigades were mostly defeated very recently already. They have also stopped attempts to attack the left bank of the Dnieper, probably related to similar issues. Posted by: unimperator | May 13 2024 20:49 utc | 49 From Intel Slavs Z: Posted by: Mary | May 13 2024 20:51 utc | 50 This is why everyone wants to join NATO. They actually look after each other. Unlike the BRICS clowns. Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 13 2024 20:54 utc | 51 „Estonia is seriously considering sending troops to free up more Ukrainian soldiers to fight at the front…“ Posted by: NoName | May 13 2024 21:01 utc | 52 @ Drapetomaniac | May 13 2024 20:54 utc | 51 Posted by: boneless | May 13 2024 21:07 utc | 53 Bored @ 14: Posted by: Refinnejenna | May 13 2024 21:22 utc | 54 Telling to see so many Americans incomprehending at the notion of a non-military man as minister of defence. Out here in the Nonamerican World, cabinet is an organ of the civil state. Military men in cabinet? Best left for military juntas, martial law and banana republics. Posted by: petra | May 13 2024 21:30 utc | 55 Did someone order a Johnny Cab?
Posted by: anon2020 | May 13 2024 21:36 utc | 56 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2024 20:22 utc | 42 “In your view are they quoting a credible number?” Posted by: Ed4 | May 13 2024 21:37 utc | 57 And the Ukrainian can claim that their losses are comparable with the Russian one. Posted by: Newbie | May 13 2024 21:57 utc | 58 Glad to be back on board after another prolonged absence . . . Posted by: AntiSpin | May 13 2024 22:12 utc | 59 Posted by: petra | May 13 2024 21:30 utc | 55 Telling to see so many Americans incomprehending at the notion of a non-military man as minister of defence. Out here in the Nonamerican World, cabinet is an organ of the civil state. Military men in cabinet? Best left for military juntas, martial law and banana republics. Posted by: ccc | May 13 2024 22:17 utc | 60 Posted by: Newbie | May 13 2024 21:57 utc | 58 Posted by: UWDude | May 13 2024 22:21 utc | 61 One thing about discussions here never changes: there are always some people arguing that the US and its military dominate the globe, and that, in the end, what Washington wants will prevail. On these people, and ‘bored’ is one of them ‘vargas’ another, reality has no impact. Posted by: vargas | May 13 2024 22:21 utc | 62 Sending the unreliable Patriot system or two is worth zero to the Ukrainians, as are the always promised deliveries of the antiquated F-16… Posted by: smuks | May 13 2024 22:35 utc | 63 @ karlof1 | May 13 2024 20:15 utc who said:
Karlof1: I know you know what follows below, but I’m going to say it again just to (hopefully) provoke additional conversation. Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | May 13 2024 22:40 utc | 64 I claim no special expertise or insight about military matters in general, or about the Ukraine battles in particular. Posted by: Vandemonian | May 13 2024 22:47 utc | 65 Bidensky has asked the brigades in Donbass to contribute one batallion each to Kharkov. A patchwork defense. Units that don’t know each other, supposed to fight in unison. Against an enemy that does act in unison and has prepared for attacking this particular region. Posted by: Hegar | May 13 2024 22:49 utc | 66 Any update on Surovikin? Posted by: Don Firineach | May 13 2024 22:49 utc | 67 Posted by: Peter A1 | May 13 2024 19:32 utc | 31 Posted by: Paco | May 13 2024 22:54 utc | 68 It is the question at which moment China is going to reduce its support to Russia. Posted by: HERMIUS | May 13 2024 22:57 utc | 69 Estonia has some 4‘000 active soldiers. Posted by: Urban Fox | May 13 2024 23:00 utc | 70 Posted by: kupkee | May 13 2024 19:03 utc | 25 Posted by: badjoke | May 13 2024 23:24 utc | 71 RE: 🇺🇦 “US Secretary of State Antony Blinken will visit Kiev this week. Posted by: Trubind1 | May 13 2024 23:39 utc | 72 @ Posted by: Vandemonian | May 13 2024 22:47 utc | 65 Posted by: BroncoBilly | May 13 2024 23:42 utc | 73 Busy today. Have just enough time to swing by for my daily update by anonymous reporting the 000000000000000.00000001? Of Ukraine now owned by Russia. Posted by: Melaleuca | May 13 2024 23:43 utc | 74 Some time back Macgregor and a few other would talk about a large force sitting in the north, I think from not long after the Russian mobilization. How much of that force is still there I wouldn’t know.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2024 0:20 utc | 75 Paco | May 13 2024 22:54 utc | 68 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2024 0:30 utc | 76 Thank you Karlof1 and Tom re cabinet reshuffle. As most of us here see it, this was for the greater good. I am inclined to believe that the new elites (veterans) will be groomed. Posted by: Suresh | May 14 2024 0:49 utc | 77 It is the question at which moment China is going to reduce its support to Russia. Posted by: gatobart | May 14 2024 0:50 utc | 78 @William Gruff | May 13 2024 20:25 utc | 43
The Abrahamics are not bloodthirsty, they are pussies, how else did Rome go down when they became Christian and the Mongols went down when they adopted the Muslim religion in the western part of their empire. Buddhists make good warriors, think of the Vietnamese. Here is something about the fighting ethic of the Tuvans Posted by: gT | May 14 2024 0:51 utc | 79 Sadly it seems clear to me that surovkin was partially implicated in the prizoghin mutiny. Seems he may have had some good reason for gripes with shoigu or his department. Sent to Africa and to the Caucasus out of politics but Not jailed. Posted by: Watcher | May 14 2024 1:02 utc | 80 My view of potted history of conflict. Posted by: Watcher | May 14 2024 1:23 utc | 81 I know comets are to be forebears of catastrophic changes. However, what does the appearance of the Aurora Borealis in regions far South of its normal range protend? Posted by: Jerr | May 14 2024 1:37 utc | 82 5. Battle Part 1. Not regally an SMO any more now a battle. Keep building defences and attrition of Ukrainian and NATO forces. Protect the Sea of Azov at all costs. Start to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure which they had been reluctant to do as an SMO. But not yet ready to take on NATO. My guess is that they had kinshal etc but not many. Willing to use but carefully. Posted by: Watcher | May 14 2024 1:40 utc | 83 I know comets are to be forebears of catastrophic changes. However, what does the appearance of the Aurora Borealis in regions far South of its normal range protend? Posted by: John Anthony La Piet | May 14 2024 1:58 utc | 84 Martyanov in his video today praised the analysis that Marat Khairullen wrote on his Telegram today regarding the promotions:
Given the West are so poor at Russia watching, its assessment of these moves is probably wrong. The arrest of another General on corruption charges is likely to further confuse. Belousov’s been handed a new toy to improve; and that’s why the meeting between Putin, Manturov and Chemezov I linked above was so important; and thus, Lavrov’s confidence. Jerr | May 14 2024 1:37 utc | 82 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2024 2:01 utc | 86 https://twitter.com/TOMCAT0926/status/1790017687738871958?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1790017687738871958%7Ctwgr%5Ec8a926af818b5735cb21539920f217ba52714160%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.godlikeproductions.com%2Fforum1%2Fmessage5715850%2Fpg1 Posted by: Eighthman | May 14 2024 2:12 utc | 87 Sadly it seems clear to me that surovkin was partially implicated in the prizoghin mutiny. Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2024 2:17 utc | 88 karlof1 | May 14 2024 2:01 utc | 85 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2024 2:21 utc | 89 Peter Posted by: Watcher | May 14 2024 2:39 utc | 90 “It ‘protends’ that you are superstitious.” Posted by: Jerr | May 14 2024 2:45 utc | 91 @ Jerr | May 14 2024 2:45 utc | 91 Posted by: psychohistorian | May 14 2024 3:04 utc | 92 @7 “….the power of renewable energy sources, in particular solar power plants, help to balance the system.” Posted by: yarpos | May 14 2024 4:38 utc | 93 https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1789683632728371610 Posted by: Passerby | May 14 2024 5:15 utc | 94 “It portends you and you butt buddy at #84 are thread hijackers Posted by: Jerr | May 14 2024 5:16 utc | 95 @Passerby | May 13 2024 18:33 utc | 19
Nonsense. First of all, the Finns are not Scandinavians. Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark. However, the Nordic countries are comprised of the 3 Scandinavian countries + Finland and Iceland. Posted by: Norwegian | May 14 2024 5:22 utc | 96 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 14 2024 0:30 utc | 76 Posted by: Paco | May 14 2024 5:28 utc | 97 @kupkee | May 13 2024 19:03 utc | 25
You must be fun at parties. The US wants “Everyone” in Europe to join NATO so European Taxpayers have to subsidize the American MIC. Posted by: Norwegian | May 14 2024 5:51 utc | 98 Lots of good comments (and lots of shit ones from re-mobilised the troll army) over the past few day on the Ukraine threads. But so far as Putin and the RF changing ministers etc. I think that Honzo’s remark early on the previous thread is worth taking seriously- Posted by: Barrel Brown | May 14 2024 5:53 utc | 99 Reuters has a posting up with the title
Too little and too late……May 20th is coming when Z loses legal agency in Ukraine. Posted by: psychohistorian | May 14 2024 5:56 utc | 100 |
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