“…das Kapital, the Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf.
Boring, long-winded books of conjecture and non sequiturs.
I admire anyone who has read these tomes, but I admire more anyone who truly believes they understood the authors.
Posted by: kupkee | May 8 2024 22:40 utc | 82”
————
I think Radhika Desai has a good grasp of classical Marxism.
————
Nice quote from Desai in ‘capitalism, coronavirus, and war’
“Chinese and other persisting socialisms demonstrate to increasingly interested public’s worldwide, particularly amid the pandemic and war, that there are saner ways to organize society, material production, politics and culture as well as society’s relations with nature and other societies.”
“Though capital may rule over considerable private enterprise, particularly during the early socialist stages, a socialist state must progressively submit all production to social ends through planning for the general interest”.

Posted by: financial matters | May 9 2024 1:07 utc | 104

Chernobyl has a thriving nature. Living for humans is possible there but not allowed. Fukushima is in all-day working mode with offices and cafeteria on the premises. Only in the reactor hall is restricted time of working necessary in the process of disassembling.
Posted by: dors Venabili | May 8 2024 21:02 utc | 63
Many things live in Chernobyl. For instance a new breed of dogs. They don’t live very long though, because they are predators, and their prey concentrate radiation products from the plant life that concentrates it from the soil, and the dogs further concentrate it. As similar apex predators, humans as we know them will not thrive in Chernobyl. Perhaps if they go about producing offspring energetically enough, they could maintain a stable population, but at the cost of early deaths from cancer and a lot children with birth defects- likely including a lot of fatal ones. Eventually, though, a new breed of humans would emerge from this process that reproduced faster and perhaps had some anti-cancer mutations. Fundamental aspects of human birthing give it a high energy cost as it is, and it would probably be necessary for the humans of Chernobyl to select for earliest menses, and microcephalia, along with birthing of smaller but more fully formed infants more able to fend for themselves at an early date. If the whole world had to function in these conditions, the species would soon resemble Americans- only smaller.

Posted by: Honzo | May 9 2024 1:21 utc | 106

I’m no expert on socialist or communist theory by any means, but I’ve always thought that the glaringly unanswered question, the ignored elephant in the room, is who is the one who do the “planning?” Who gets to decide what “social ends” are in the “general interest”? Someone must needs be in control and that is always conveniently sidestepped.
Posted by: Phil R | May 9 2024 1:15 utc | 105
———
No expert either but I think it’s going to be a long walk from rugged individualism to a more socialist mindset. Growing inequality will help as well as increasing expensive medical care, housing and education.

Posted by: financial matters | May 9 2024 1:24 utc | 108

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | May 9 2024 0:30 utc | 97

And, again, we’re all still here. And there are two very nice cities in Japan if you need ideas for a rest cure.
Henceforth, do your own searching. There aren’t enough soap box ranters here already …?

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 1:31 utc | 110

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were rebuilt, and millions still live there. What’s the big deal?
If humanity wiped itself out with a global conflagration, what’s the big deal there?
Clearly we deserve it if that happens. The planet will recover and heal according to nature’s laws.
Life will recover, humanity should not if it wipes itself out.
Why? Because we are no better than the dinosaurs and deserve no better than they got.
And they were totally innocent!
Shit happens. Right?
There is no point discussing a hypothetical either. When it happens, it happens.
Think about it some more.
Cheers

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 1:39 utc | 112

“Russian leaders and General Marshall Shoigu, the defense minister has recently said that Russia has gone over from the active defense to the offense… This is more than just a military move this signifies that Russia has made a decision that the time of negotiated settlement is over and that Russia is now taking matters into its own hands to achieve a military-based victory premised on the notion of unconditional surrender. What proves this point is… Russia has put Zelenski & Poroshenko former president and other senior members of the Zelenski government on a Wanted list which means that Russia will never negotiate with with these people. Russia will never sit down at the table with these people… That means that the opportunity for a negotiated end of this conflict is over. This conflict will be won by The Sword and that sword is going to be wielded in a bloody effective manner by the Russians over the course of this summer.”
Scott Ritter with George Galloway on “MOATS”
May 8, 2024, 7:30 pm London time, ~ Major Ritter began speaking ~31 minutes into the two hour show.

===
IMO, US/NATO is grossly underestimating the patience, power, & intelligence that Russia is wielding. From here it looks like the Russian federation is in a state of grace, while the west is being led men who look like a rather sinister version of the three stooges. If not for all the painful circumstances, it would seem funny.
https://www.youtube.com/live/qcNXa1tRqNI?si=lJsjEVuza_KcV6HS&t=1867

Posted by: Will Seymore | May 9 2024 1:46 utc | 114

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 1:39 utc | 112
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were rebuilt, and millions still live there. What’s the big deal?
There is no point discussing a hypothetical either. When it happens, it happens.
—
Wow. I have not experienced such misanthropy in a long while. 100,000+ people dead and you don’t give a shit.
I entered this discussion because I felt that minimizing nuclear winter was a stage-setting move for nuclear war. Its not that denying nuclear winter a hypothetical, its that it is a propaganda trope to condition people not to worry when war goes nuclear, which is the only move the Empire has left.
You seem comfortable not merely to sit on the sidelines while we commit suicide, but to mock people who care.
Must be fun not to care about anything but yourself.

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 1:54 utc | 116

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 1:54 utc | 116
Dear John.
The Japanese people murdered far more than 100,000 people. The figure is somewhere near 20 million Chinese as one example. Dead people don;t speak up unfortunately. Possibly could be:
From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war.
John, stop cherry picking!
Nuclear winter is both a hypothetical event happening, and a theory. On balance something like could possibly occur. I say so what? Because if it happens we collectively deserve it – deserve to be wiped out!
I see no issues with that logic. Tell why it is wrong. Explain to me why humanity does not deserve it given out knowledge base and collective experience over 3 million years or so to date.
If you or others choose to commit (collective) suicide there’s nothing I can do about it. First hand experience!
I do not only care about myself and i was not “mocking” anyone – it’s called a difference of opinion based upon my own knowledge and perspectives and values.
No need to react by guilt tripping me. It’s just a forum – I didn’t kill anyone with my opinion. I didn’t personally attack anyone (or you personally) either. I presented my own thinking on the topic raised by others here. It’s a discussion forum. I was not selling anything myself.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 2:06 utc | 118

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 2:29 utc | 119
Sorry, Niemoller; not Niebuhr.

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 2:33 utc | 120

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 2:29 utc | 119
“It sounds like you think it is out of peoples’ hands and the wankers running this shitshow are the only ones with agency. “
YES. Definitely. I am powerless to do anything bar bitch on this forum or another. That’s it. I have tried everything else, appealing to politicians reason and humanity — a waste of time except for my peace of mind and being able to keep living with myself.
But I have done enough my whole life. I quit. If you think you can do better – then go for it.
No one is stopping you (not me) until they either arrest you, get you killed, or take you out without leaving a trace.
IMHO there are no options left other than a very violent and deadly French style Mass Revolution in the Fascist West — before that happens there will be decades/years of hell to pay first. Culling of the herds, increasing abuses, disappearances, tougher laws, longer sentences, until it is as bad as 18th century Britain where you sent to the colonies for life for stealing some bread…. and then as bad as Argentina and Chile and El Salvador … all willingly sponsored by the USA American People in the 1980s … HINT HINT
Oh and the TALIBAN and Al Queda and CONTRA freedom fighters as well of course!
That is where we are heading, and already arrived. Next is total civil breakdown and zero social decency or justice anywhere. Not the US alone, everywhere! Go check the prison sentences dished out the Jan 6 protesters …. that’s all they were simple protesters, nothing more than that. No one tried to BLOW UP THE BUILDING nor KILL THE PRESIDENT yet hundreds have been jailed for decades on end.
The Boston Tea party “terrorists” got shorter sentences in 1776!
RE the the Niebuhr quote ….. people DID do things, they DID speak out …. they were all shot or disappeared or escaped the country secretly – Einstein for example. Chile, Central America was no different. The US is no different just slicker about it.
But that won’t last, the US is about to get very real like the Nazis were. Will not be long before what the psychopaths in Israel are doing in Gaza is being done in the USA and elsewhere to their own people.
Same as the Ukrainians did to THEIR OWN CITIZENS …. burning them alive in buildings and eventually shelling cities from a distance…. while calling them EVIL TERRORISTS!
You wanna go step up in front of BIDEN in public and call him an insidious sick evil cunt? Because he is.
Go for it.
You wanna dump on me for telling it like it is and saying Fuck it, it’s a waste of time fighting this shit … then go for it.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 2:56 utc | 122

The Japanese were trashing China for decades before the ‘official invasion’ in 1937.
The West, the US, did nothing about the Japanese in China, until 1942 when they bombed Pearl Harbour …. cowards one and all. The Americans that is! (well sure, Britain and Australia declared war on them earlier, but that was a nothing burger too)
NAZI Germany – from 1933 for over 6 years the West, the World did nothing — did not lift a finger.
Not until Poland was invaded and even then the AMERICAN PEOPLE did nothing but sit on their hands.
Ukraine Neo-Nazis take over Ukraine in a 2014 coup, a decade agao, and the West not only didn;t go int to defeat them tey are their allies who have armed them to the teeth to murderer their own countrymen.
Go figure.
People still still work out WTF is happening in Palestine and the zionist murderers and land thieves for over 100 years now …. do you want me to go slag off at every passing Genocide Apartheid supporting sick Zionist Jew I see on the streets or is an elected politician in my national Parliament … because here are dozens of them!!!!
John Brewster and others here:
Are you trying to get me killed or thrown in jail for the rest of my life?

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 3:09 utc | 124

>> Posted by: Rhymerez | May 8 2024 19:46 utc | 46
>> “US$35.95
>> Local taxes may apply
>> Online access for 48 hours with the option to save or download the article in PDF format.”
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/1352231094903611…”
>> Don’t pay the bastards spewing bad science behind pay walls.
Free access to paywalled scientific articles via sci-hub (just enter the title or DOI “digital object id” which can be copied-pasted from the paywalled site), link below to sci-hub and the specific article:
https://sci-hub.se/
https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/1352-2310(94)90361-1
DOI: 10.1016/1352-2310(94)90361-1

Posted by: ivanislav | May 9 2024 3:21 utc | 126

@ Milites | May 9 2024 3:31 utc | 127
i think an unhappy and unenlightened mind succumbs to a doctrine of fatalism and misanthropy… that is my take… they need to spend more time meditating and less time talking..

Posted by: james | May 9 2024 3:54 utc | 128

A controversial thought for my fellow barflies : the reason why VV Putin and the Russian general staff have difficulties understanding and dealing with their EU counterparts is that the EU leaders have been feminized, through careful cryptocratic selection. In mythology, Europa is a woman, raped by Zeus (Ze-us, The US).
It is very very difficult for decent men (like VVP, who shows great respect for women) to understand that they may often get despised by women whom they treat well and with logical reasoning… A more brutal attitude may create lots of love and admiration from the infantile feminized euro-lemmings…

Posted by: Asian frog | May 9 2024 4:01 utc | 130

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 3:09 utc | 124

John Brewster and others here:
Are you trying to get me killed or thrown in jail for the rest of my life?

—-
Okay, i understand your pov. I do not deny you the right to it. Myself, if that’s what I thought of the world, I couldn’t live long in it.
But, you said yourself that you are a free agent. You do not have to follow my wishes any more than I do yours. I’m sure you wouldn’t do anything to jeapordize yourself.
If you can have a happy life with your attitude, more power to you. Its just a downer to listen to it.

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 4:34 utc | 132

📋🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Two Majors #Report for the Morning of 9 May 2024; pub. 06:59📍
🔹In the #Kherson direction, there are no significant changes, both sides are carrying out mutual artillery strikes, and the AFU is using many drones. The AFU fired mortars at #Dnepryany in Novokakhovsky district.
🔹On the #Zaporozhye front, northwest of #Verbovoye small assault groups of the AFU tried to get closer to our positions, the enemy was stopped by counter small arms fire. The RFAF reported success in #Rabotino. There is an advance to the north of the settlement.
🔹On the #Vremyevka ledge, heavy bloody fighting on #Staromayorskoye continues. The RFAF are suffering losses during the weeklong offensive, but are also developing success at this locality. From the field, fighters report multidirectional actions of our infantry and artillery, and note serious damage from enemy artillery fire with cluster munitions. At the same time, the RFAF have gained a foothold on the southern outskirts of #Urozhaynoye, and the enemy’s counterattacks have no success.
🔹In the #SouthDonetsk direction, the RFAF are scaling up the use of “turtle tanks”. There is fighting on the Refractory Plant in the centre of #Krasnogorovka.
🔹In the #Pokrovskoye direction west of #Avdeyevka, the RFAF are developing success south of #Pervomayskoye with flanking strikes, cutting the front bulge. An offensive is under way in #Netaylovo. The zone of control in the villages on the #Ochertino ledge is expanding.
🔹On the eastern outskirts of #ChasovYar, the controlled territory is expanding in heavy battles. The RFAF are increasing pressure from the northern and southern flanks.
🔹From the #Kharkov region in the #Kupyansk sector, they reported a breakthrough of the enemy’s defence in the settlement of #Berestovoye yesterday. Fighting has been going on since 28 April 2024. Earlier the Russian Army occupied #Kislovka and #Kotlyarovka.
💥#Belgorod was shelled with MLRS in the morning. Eight people were injured: seven adults and one child. Yesterday, the village of #Murom, Shebekinsky urban district, came under AFU artillery fire. The villages of #Rovenyok and #Malinovka, #Belgorod district, were attacked by the AFU using kamikaze drones.
💥In the #Kursk region near #Troitskoye, Korenevsky district, an AFU drone dropped an explosive device on a tractor working in a field. The driver, who was carrying out agricultural work, was wounded. Another Ukrainian drone attacked an oil factory in #Suzha.
💥In the #Bryansk region at night, two aircraft-type UAVs were destroyed by forces over the Klintsovsky district. In the afternoon, #Lemeshovka in Sevsky district was shelled.
💥In the #DPR, As a result of AFU strikes on peaceful civilians, a woman born in 1938 was killed in Krasnaya Polyana, four civilians were wounded in #Gorlovka and #Vladimirovka.

https://t.me/two_majors/23658

Posted by: Down South | May 9 2024 5:06 utc | 134

🧩🇺🇦🧩 Vitali Klitschko gave a loud slap to the ZeTeam❗️❗️
Lina Kostenko and Valery Zaluzhny became honorary citizens of Kyiv, despite the demarche of the “servants” who came out as a whole faction during the voting in the Kiev City Council. It is clear that this demarche was planned in advance. But the rest of the deputies present were unanimous – 71 “for”.
“For many years, Lina Vasilyevna personifies the inflexibility and free and talented soul of Ukrainians. The spirit of freedom and courage!
We celebrated Valery Fedorovich for his personal services during the defense of the capital and the defense of state sovereignty and freedom of Ukraine,” Vitaliy Klitschko, mayor of Kyiv, commented on this decision.
Well, now Zaluzhny has a simple scheme for nomination for President – the Honorary Citizen of Kyiv, who organized the defense of the capital, is running for President in a big stride! The main thing is not to let yourself be taken to London❗️❗️
Klitschko has extensive experience in creating Ukrainian presidents. In 2014, thanks to the Vienna agreement, he helped Poroshenko, now he is making a move for Zaluzhny☝🏻
In 2014, Klitschko had a rating of No. 1 in the country and a faction in parliament, now – only the mayor’s chair, which in 2019 was retained by Andrei Ermak!!️, whose people took part in many of the mayor’s projects.
The then head of the Office of the President Andriy Bohdan was in favor of re-election of the mayor and the Kyiv council, but Ermak won, and now it is this decision that is driving the nails into Zelensky’s political coffin.
Se la vie🤷

https://t.me/ZeRada1/19550

Posted by: Down South | May 9 2024 5:12 utc | 136

Effects of Agent Orange from over 50 years ago are still evident.
So are the victims of DU use in Iraq and Serbia.
Yet, some here are delusional.

Posted by: Suresh | May 9 2024 5:31 utc | 138

WION:
Russia Victory Day Parade 2024 LIVE: Russia marks WW2 Victory Day with military parade in Moscow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJUJpqdUl_8

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 9 2024 6:58 utc | 140

Compare.
Putin, Russia: “We do not refuse dialogue with Western states. The choice is theirs: do they intend to continue trying to restrain the development of Russia, continue the policy of aggression and relentless pressure that they have pursued for years, or look for a path to cooperation and peace.”
Cleverly, UK: “This is not new and the British people and the British Government will not fall for it, and will not be taken for fools by (President Vladimir) Putin’s bots, trolls and lackeys.”
Just as the UK pushed Ukraine to war with Russia, the US is pushing the UK to war with Russia.

Posted by: Passerby | May 9 2024 7:15 utc | 142

@Asian frog | May 9 2024 4:01 utc | 130
No, they’re simple filthy rich idiots, the slave owners. Some of them even look like the result of inbreeding. You are correct that “brutal” is the only thing they would understand, but there’s no one even trying simulated brutal. Since there’s no opposition, this must be what everybody wants and loves.

Posted by: rk | May 9 2024 7:34 utc | 144

Posted by: Sally | May 8 2024 20:53 utc | 61 ” Putin said in the beginning that the war will be fought so as not create a war economy.”
Putin says a lot of things. Some of which can no longer said to be true because of events since he said it. Putin underestimated the amount of effort the invasion of Ukraine would take. Russia is moving towards a war economy. Look at the amount of money they are now spending on their military force as a percent of the national budget compare to what it was in 2021. Use the numbers Russia has published.

Posted by: Ed4 | May 9 2024 7:45 utc | 146

Putin says a lot of things. Some of which can no longer said to be true because of events since he said it. Putin underestimated the amount of effort the invasion of Ukraine would take. Russia is moving towards a war economy. Look at the amount of money they are now spending on their military force as a percent of the national budget compare to what it was in 2021. Use the numbers Russia has published.
Posted by: Ed4 | May 9 2024 7:45 utc | 147
.
.
Seldom read such nonsense!
Did you expect Russia NOT to switch to a war economy?
Unlike the West, Russia can do this, and in the face of NATO’s provocative actions, Putin even had to do this.
AND Russia still spends comparatively little money on it, if you assume the WEST including Europe and the USA it is a fraction.
Advantage of the Russians…in contrast to Europe. Russia has all the raw materials itself.
In Germany, for example, even with a war economy they couldn’t even produce tanks or ammunition because almost all the raw materials and the machines plus skilled workers are missing…Find the error.

Posted by: ossi | May 9 2024 8:02 utc | 148

Posted by: ossi | May 9 2024 8:02 utc | 149
Glad we are in agreement. Russia is moving to a war economy.
Sally @ May 8 2024 20:53 utc | 61 disagrees.

Posted by: ed4 | May 9 2024 8:10 utc | 150

Re: Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2024 17:31 utc | 18

Lastly, you shouldn’t assume, I am pro Ukrop (or the converse) because I point out the flaws in the chearleadosphere thinking. It’s as if you are so used to pro RFA having RFA copes and the converse, that that is how you think everyone is. I’m interested in reality REGARDLESS if it fits what I want to happen.

I know we have similar views on this.
I fully expect Putin to cut a deal that leaves a lot of people disappointed – IN RUSSIA!! – in early 2025.
That is my expectation – because that is precisely what he’s done every other time.
Debaltseve ”CAULDRON” anyone?!?
Didn’t turn out to be a ”CAULDRON” at all – they were all let go!

Posted by: Julian | May 9 2024 8:31 utc | 152

Its just a downer to listen to it.
Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 4:34 utc | 132
Like some pop music. Diversity is the spice of life. Everything doesn’t need to be that important.
Consider – there were zero college protests in the US or around the world. None. No news events like that.
How would things be any different right now in the WH or in Gaza?

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 8:45 utc | 154

This is not the place to discuss the topic in depth but …
Posted by: dors Venabili | May 9 2024 8:11 utc | 152
The open thread is.

Posted by: anon2020 | May 9 2024 9:14 utc | 156

This debate, if you can call it that, about nuclear winter is very weird.
If several hundred nuclear weapons of a yield between 200 and 2000 kilotons each were detonated on the cities of the northern hemisphere, the result would be the destruction of every major city and a gigantic release of radiation (especially since those cities often have nuclear reactors near enough to them so that the reactor containment would be breached, perhaps catastrophically). The situation is not quite as bad as it was in the 1970s when the number of nuclear weapons was more than ten times greater and the yields of the weapons was larger, but still, it would be enough to kill at least a billion people and seriously injure a billion more, under conditions where there were no reliable communications, no high-tech medical care, little or no electrical power and a terrible shortage of food. To contradict General Turgidson, we would certainly get more than our hair muss
Now, on top of that, there is the likelihood that this would project large amounts of particles into the atmosphere which could remain there for weeks or months and reflect sunlight, thus causing nuclear winter. This is obviously not a certainty as nobody could possibly predict exactly what would be set on fire or how much material would be projected into the atmosphere, how long it would stay there, and so forth. The most sensible thing to assume is the worst, however. because if you assume the best about a once-off calamity then you are assuming that the calamity won’t happen even if it happens. The worst, actual nuclear winter, would come on top of the rest of the catastrophe.
It’s beyond ridiculous to engage in this sort of debate. It’s like saying that it’s OK to get brain cancer because chances are your hair won’t fall out.
I can understand people saying that this is the sort of thing the human race deserves, but I don’t believe that either. Most of the human race has never had the chance to show whether they deserve such horror or not. Don’t act as if the whole planet consists of eight billion Netanyahus.

Posted by: MFB | May 9 2024 9:20 utc | 158

Intention of the West is to push Russia into the war economy forever. They hope this war would last long as they think that they print the money forever.
The strategic ability of the USA to print money is far more important then teh western inability to produce shells, as they produce just enough so the fanatical Ukros can stale and stop the Russian army.
We must admit that Russian army cannot break through Ukro lines.

Posted by: vargas | May 9 2024 9:41 utc | 160

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 9 2024 9:15 utc | 158
Maybe west simply didn’t have nothing to use.

Posted by: Mario | May 9 2024 9:48 utc | 162

I am so sick of the arguing and sniping at the bar.
In the past year or so four or five new commenters, people who fancy themselves experts on just about everything take up entire threads.
This constant discussion (bickering and insulting} adds nothing except the need to scroll past endless posts of your pontifications.
Begging you to be considerate of the many other people who come here for information.
of course these parties will never stop and they do not care and they likely will not see this as they are too busy formulating their endless retorts.
feels like MOA has been stolen

Posted by: ld | May 9 2024 10:28 utc | 164

“Putin says a lot of things. Some of which can no longer said to be true because of events since he said it. Putin underestimated the amount of effort the invasion of Ukraine would take. Russia is moving towards a war economy. Look at the amount of money they are now spending on their military force as a percent of the national budget compare to what it was in 2021. Use the numbers Russia has published.”
Posted by: Ed4 | May 9 2024 7:45 utc | 147
.
.
Seldom read such nonsense!
Did you expect Russia NOT to switch to a war economy?
Unlike the West, Russia can do this, and in the face of NATO’s provocative actions, Putin even had to do this.
AND Russia still spends comparatively little money on it, if you assume the WEST including Europe and the USA it is a fraction.
Advantage of the Russians…in contrast to Europe. Russia has all the raw materials itself.
In Germany, for example, even with a war economy they couldn’t even produce tanks or ammunition because almost all the raw materials and the machines plus skilled workers are missing…Find the error.”
Posted by: ossi | May 9 2024 8:02 utc | 149
ossi you are 100% correct-ed4 is in la la land.

Posted by: canuck | May 9 2024 10:35 utc | 166

Posted by: MFB | May 9 2024 9:20 utc | 159
Yes well, people do say what’s on their mind. My initial contribution on this topic was it was quite reasonable for Russia to consider and prepare to use tactical nukes in Ukraine or on allied support countries, eg Nato/US bases in and around Ukraine, Romania Greece Poland etc. (according to their doctrine, and Putin’s recent comments re involvement by UK France US troops or weapons used on russia soil etc.
Adding that nuked japanese cities were rebuilt and millions live there now safely. And those were the same size as russia’s small size tactical nukes.
Nuclear winter doesn’t come into it. Why? Because there is no automatic subsequent full on strategic conflagration of after Russia uses such arms.
In fact imo it would put the entire psychopathic belligerent fanatical superior minded western world back in it’s box. I don not think they would dare retaliate with nukes. The US would be on the red phone immediately seeking talks and backing down. imho.
Nuclear winter … unlikely. If it happens we all deserve it! We all have allowed this to unfold like this over many many decades. Especially the wealthy lucky golden billion ….

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 10:39 utc | 168

The USA have the highest interest rates in the West-the days of ‘free money printing’ are behind it.
Posted by: canuck | May 9 2024 10:32 utc | 166
Lets hope you are right.
I am a not a troll.
I am not saying The West/USA would win, I am just saying that it is not so easy going war.

Posted by: vargas | May 9 2024 10:56 utc | 170

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 1:31 utc | 110
What are the ‘half lives’ of all those deadly particles again. From 507 atmospheric explosions and over 1500 other explosions. From the two nuked cities now fully inhabited and thriving? How can they be inhabited with deadly half lives of…is it half aillion years?
War is what it is and has always been. I know if no weapon ever invented that was not eventually used. One million men died in one WWI battle at Verdun.
Perhaps the only way the profound sickness of this world and the psychos running it can end is when America (I’m American) gets what it so richly deserves and has it’s own Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg (all non nuke), Hiroshima and Nagasaki to ponder. Humanity scaled the heavens in art, architecture, music, drama,literature. That was then. Now is merde. Like human created climate change and so much else, first the endless hype and second, all the endless blabbering in the world doesn’t affect anything. It’s just more self-absorbed static. And wow boring.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | May 9 2024 11:37 utc | 172

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 9 2024 11:18 utc | 172
thx I’m no expert on nukes, rely on info, but had read the Kinzhal nuke warheads were between 5 and 50 kt
so I just assumed that’s the japanese range more or less for my general comment. if you want to share more info re the smaller warheads and missiles, or correct the above info (wiki) feel free. Would be good to know I guess.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 11:51 utc | 174

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | May 9 2024 8:47 utc | 156
Good post Sir.
I do not claim any deep expertise in mathematical modelling, but do have some familiarity with the subject. In my experience -as is well accepted- the model must use reliable data as input and that all reliable data be given the same weight (importance) by the model.
Quite frequently the input data is to a degree skewed by the modellers using a device called” mitigating factors”. Simply, this just means that some data is expediently treated as being more significant than the remainder because it is pretty obvious that if all data were treated equally, then an undesired outcome would result. The so called “mitigating factors” are usually very subjective (that is are developed in the heads of managers) but have to be used by the modeller doing the work. I have seen this fraudulent strategy used to make a model spew out a desired outcome when it was obvious that if the “un-massaged” data had been used as input the predictions of the calculations would have been very different.
My experience of this type of bullshit modelling concerned the potential environmental effects of the large-scale use of certain industrial/agricultural chemicals, it was invariably the case that the result of the fraudulent calculations favoured policy developments in the interest of certain large companies. Sure, this is my limited experience while associated with a regulatory agency of a Western government but your remarks about profit motive ring very true to me.
I don’t know firsthand whether climate models or models relevant to nuclear winter etc. are always subjected to the same degree of manipulation, but in some cases I’d bet that they are.

Posted by: Barrel Brown | May 9 2024 11:59 utc | 176

I don’t know firsthand whether climate models or models relevant to nuclear winter etc. are always subjected to the same degree of manipulation, but in some cases I’d bet that they are.
Posted by: Barrel Brown | May 9 2024 11:59 utc | 177
They are, at least for climate models.

Posted by: Phil R | May 9 2024 12:15 utc | 178

Don Firineach@123….what did they do to us? Genes man, genes, their genetics provided physical strength, the ability to survive inhospitable climates…..and craic, not all humans got that gene….
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 9 2024 12:30 utc | 180

News from, and about, the actual conflict.
https://t.me/ghost_of_novorossia/22823

Happy Victory Day everyone!
In the project’s boundaries🔨#molot_witches the heavy artillery division of the Kalmius artillery brigade received small arms modernization kits for more effective shooting down of UAVs.
‼️‼️In the video we tried to talk about the importance of the economic component of war. Equipment for 200-300 rubles. can help shoot down a drone or several drones costing more than 1 million each, and this one million drone can burn several tanks or howitzers that already cost tens and hundreds of millions of rubles. If we want to achieve Victory, like our ancestors 79 years ago, then we must approach this war economically.
In total, we gave out to Kalmius:
– 2 tripods from the Moscow Kulibins for AK/RPK.
– For the tripods, 2 handguards for the RPK and 2 front handles and (for quickly detachable mounting of the weapon on the tripod)
– 2 of those RIKA NV Lesnik 319 L plovision sights, which the manufacturer provided to us at a discount, were purchased by a friend with the call sign Mitrich, for which we express our gratitude to him Gratitude.
– To install the sight, 2 brackets with a picatinny rail “nomad-6” for installing sights on the RPK .
– 2 magazines for AK/RPK 5.45×39 StichProfi for 60 rounds.
– Drone detector “Asel” from “AselLabs” sold to us at a significant discount from the manufacturer.
– 2 laser lights LS-KS1-G100A 100 mW for illuminating UAVs in the air.
-2 closed-type DTK ” competitor ” 24×1.5R for AK
We conducted a full consultation on the tactical operation of air defense weapons and working with equipment, setting up a sight, etc. We are waiting for feedback from the guys.
…

https://t.me/ghost_of_novorossia/22830

❗️And an important appeal to the commanders of regiments/brigades / divisions
❗️- Try to solve the problem of providing your air observation points (air observation points) with the necessary equipment and weapons. If it is not possible to provide them with high-tech equipment (for example, a military thermal imaging sight 1pn140-2, etc.), then try to provide them with the necessary weapons. Most of the air defense artillery/air defense/tanker units that turn to us for help are armed with conventional AK74/AKSU.🤦‍♂🤦‍♂
For shooting at drones, in most cases, PCs/RPKs are more effective weapons and perform better, but they are not always issued to military personnel, so I really hope that the fighters will bring this problem to the command and RAVists, and they will make the right decisions to ensure their PVN with additional weapons in the form of the same PCs/RPKs – then the result will not be long in coming, the effectiveness of PVNs will increase, there will be more downed drones, and less of our equipment burned.

Posted by: anon2020 | May 9 2024 13:26 utc | 182

Posted by: Honzo | May 9 2024 1:21 utc | 106
Posted by: Suresh | May 9 2024 5:31 utc | 139
Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | May 9 2024 6:26 utc | 140
Posted by: MFB | May 9 2024 9:20 utc | 159
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 9 2024 11:18 utc | 172
Thank you all for spelling it out.
When I responded to the minimization of nuclear winter, it was in the context of propaganda, not science.
I feel that people trying to say “nuclear war, no big deal” are softening up the public for the use of tactical nuclear weapons by NATO in the Ukraine. Clearly Russia thinks that too, as they have just announced tactical nuke drills of their own. Of course Western propaganda will say the Russians started the escalation, but Russia has been consistent that the provision of nuclear-capable F-16s is an escalation.
To all the folks arguing about the dirty details of NW scenarios, take it to the Open Thread. I only brought it up in the Ukraine thread because of the attempt to claim that nuclear war can be confined to the battlefield.
To the propagandists saying that Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, Fukushima, DU in Yugoslavia and Iraq were nothing special, why don’t you go inhale some DU dust, as you think its harmless. When you say “don’t be too afraid of nukes”, it is as extreme as “be very, very afraid of Covid”.
Covid left 99.5% of the population alive, but we changed our entire society on the basis of propaganda. Nukes will leave 99.5% of the population dead, but you say we should accept this change to our military policy.
For 79 years there has been a bright red line – nobody uses nukes of any size. The propaganda here, that tactical nukes are OK, is opening Pandora’s box. First they use them on the battlefield, then there is retaliation. Then someone uses them on a port or an industrial complex. Ot Netanyahu nukes Gaza and all bets are off.
To those saying the first nuke will bring everyone to their senses, the neocons have no reverse gear; and they have their hands on the trigger. What, you think the Brandon Entity is calling the shots?
—-
Posted by: Robert E.Smith | May 9 2024 11:37 utc | 173

What are the ‘half lives’ of all those deadly particles again. From 507 atmospheric explosions and over 1500 other explosions. From the two nuked cities now fully inhabited and thriving?

Still trying to change the topic. The topic is massive nuclear exchange followed by NW. The topic is not radioactive half lives. Tell me how you are not propagandizing to minimize the horror of nuclear war.
—-
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | May 9 2024 13:08 utc | 182

The mass paranoia about nuclear winter hinges around “the first shot means all will fly”. It’s ignorant, paranoid crap.

I would rather be accused of being paranoid than live in a world where tactical nukes are just another tool in the toolbox of imperialist warmongering. It is only the West that is pushing these weapons, because they have lost dominance in all other kinds of warfare. The Russians have responded in kind because they are legitimately threatened.
Given the lunatics in charge of Israel and the corrupt, stupid assholes in charge of the US and UK, its right to be paranoid about nukes. Netanyahu makes General Turgidson look like a teddy bear.

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 15:21 utc | 184

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 1:39 utc | 112

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were rebuilt, and millions still live there. What’s the big deal?

The big deal is at the time there were two small yield nuclear weapons on the planet and they were used against a country that was defeated and could no longer defend itself. The situation today’s a little different.

If humanity wiped itself out with a global conflagration, what’s the big deal there?
Clearly we deserve it if that happens. The planet will recover and heal according to nature’s laws.
Life will recover, humanity should not if it wipes itself out.

Absolutely. 99.99% of every species to inhabit this planet has gone extinct so the odds are not good for us. In the scheme of things the only thing remarkable about us is our ability to act socially and manipulate our environment … we’re just slightly better at it than beavers but less sustainably than ants.
Our fatal flaw is optimism. We are on the cusp of a war that could wipe out human civilization in an afternoon and we are powerless to stop it because no one believes it will really happen. That is a special type of stupidity unique to our species.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 1:39 utc | 112

Posted by: HB_Norica | May 9 2024 15:50 utc | 186

Posted by: John Marks | May 9 2024 15:43 utc | 186
I had not heard of Tambora, only Krakatoa. Thanks for the info.

Posted by: john brewster | May 9 2024 16:11 utc | 188

If humanity wiped itself out with a global conflagration, what’s the big deal there?
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 9 2024 1:39 utc | 112

But apres moi! Please god, please, apres moi!
xD

Posted by: McAgnew | May 9 2024 18:04 utc | 190

And just to comment generally on the discussion, I don’t consider myself a communist, but I read the Communist Manifesto and found it a very interesting and informative work. Then I tried to read Kapital and got to about the third chapt[SNORING SOUNDS, LOUD SNORING SOUNDS].

Posted by: McAgnew | May 9 2024 18:18 utc | 192

But pity about the 1.5 to 2.5 Neanderthal genes which most of us carry would die out with us. What did the Neanderthals ever do to us?
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 9 2024 3:04 utc | 123
Well, I propose that we name the names: what the heck!? After all, we are at our local.
What you really meant was killing the Europeans? That is what happens, when we make a small garden and forget the jungle! The stuff eats you! Who gives a damn if Europe is totally destroyed?!
I don’t give a #$&%!
I was disappointed that Putin, called the Great patriotic War, WW2. It shows that he has yet not learned…
Well to each his own! 🥰

Posted by: Nasir | May 9 2024 19:57 utc | 194

Had to double-check – but yes, this is the Ukraine thread. lol

Posted by: smuks | May 9 2024 22:13 utc | 196

RT on 5/10/24
Russia has issued several warnings to the collective West in recent days. In the future, the participation of NATO countries will no longer be tolerated without retaliation. Paris immediately rowed back, while there is currently an awkward silence in London.
.
By Irina Alksnis
Things are mysterious in Europe at the moment.
Two days have passed since the British ambassador (like his French counterpart) had to appear at the Russian Foreign Ministry, where he received a – by diplomatic standards – severe beating.
After the meeting, our Foreign Office said in an official statement that the British envoy “was warned that the response to Ukrainian attacks with British weapons on Russian territory could be all British military facilities and equipment on Ukrainian territory and beyond.”
The trigger for Moscow’s demarche was Foreign Secretary David Cameron’s recent statement in which he authorized the use of weapons supplied to Kiev – in particular long-range cruise missiles – for attacks on Russian territory. This is the statement that Reuters first published on May 2, then retracted “to verify details” and then republished without major changes.
Russian ambassador: Maneuvers with nuclear weapons are a reaction to the aggressiveness of the West
Russian ambassador: Maneuvers with nuclear weapons are a reaction to the aggressiveness of the West
The reason for this back and forth is obvious: Cameron’s words actually make Britain a party to the conflict, and Moscow sees it that way too. But apparently the hawks in the London cabinets prevailed over their more cautious colleagues, and the minister’s statement remained in the world.
For more than two years, Western policy in the Ukraine conflict has been on thin ice: on the one hand, Kiev receives strong support in a variety of ways, while on the other hand, it is officially staying out of the conflict so as not to give Russia any reason to take retaliatory measures. In recent months the situation has begun to change: the hopelessness of the situation for the Ukrainian armed forces at the front is increasingly pushing the West – primarily Europe, of course – to intervene directly in the conflict. The increasingly aggressive rhetoric of European leaders reflects precisely this changing trend.
The tricky thing is that in this case there is a big gap between words and actions. It is one thing to puff yourself up like Macron and promise to officially send French troops to Ukraine, and quite another to actually do so. So far everything has been limited to rumors about the involvement of French mercenaries in the fighting and evidence that suggests this. After his initial enthusiasm, Macron himself chooses his words more and more cautiously. For example, at the same time as he summoned the French ambassador to the Foreign Ministry in Moscow, he assured that his country was not at war with Russia or the Russian people.
However, the situation is more complicated for the British, as Cameron has given Kiev consent to attacks on Russian territory using weapons officially handed over by London. The usual excuses that the mercenaries act at their own risk and have nothing to do with the state do not apply here. All in all, this is indeed a very big step by Britain towards open war with Russia.
But apparently they only became aware of this when the ambassador was summoned to the Russian Foreign Ministry, and Moscow’s subsequent reaction shocked the British and subsequently the entire European establishment.
Ex-Pentagon advisor: “Emmanuel Macron has clearly gone too far”
Ex-Pentagon advisor: “Emmanuel Macron has clearly gone too far”
For many months – since the West’s public tendency to reduce support for Kiev became apparent – Western officials have been rapidly declaring that the process must continue because Russia will not stop in Ukraine and will inevitably continue, so the biggest part of Europe is threatened by Moscow’s military aggression.
And now the West has finally received a valid argument in support of its position: Moscow has openly, directly and officially declared that it will attack British military facilities. And yes, it will affect them not only in Ukraine but also beyond its borders. And this statement came almost simultaneously with Russia’s announcement that it would conduct exercises with non-strategic nuclear weapons.
One might think that this is proof of the Russian threat that can be trumpeted at every turn. But instead there is silence. While the media worldwide
.
While the nuclear exercises were still being reported, the Russian Foreign Ministry’s statement promising a military response to Britain outside Ukraine had a sobering effect on both officials and the media. At the time of publication of this article, this topic is virtually non-existent in the Western information and political landscape. The Russia-haters who recently promised Moscow “surprises” such as massive missile and drone attacks and the destruction of the Crimean Bridge for the May holidays have also fallen silent and are deliberately ignoring the issue.
We are used to Western statesmen, politicians and journalists having no problems with rhetoric. At any time and on any topic, they have ideological and linguistic stamps ready that fit the current agenda. The silence of London and all other Western capitals for more than a day on an issue as important as Russia’s direct military threat to Britain speaks volumes about the level of stultification and confusion that currently exists there.
Europeans will have to reformat the entire worldview in their minds and realize that the imaginary Russian bear, which they have successfully defeated in their imagination in recent years, is in reality more vicious than they would like. None of them want to take on the real “Russian bear”. Especially since today’s date reminds us of how it ended last time.
Translated from Russian. The original article appeared on ria.ru on May 8, 2024

Posted by: ossi | May 10 2024 5:50 utc | 198

At the time of publication of this article, this topic is virtually non-existent in the Western information and political landscape.
Posted by: ossi | May 10 2024 5:50 utc | 199
I don’t understand that comment. There is news about retaliation against the UK (and France for troops) as well as the tactical nuclear exercises all over MSM in the west.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 10 2024 6:33 utc | 200