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May 19, 2024
Palestine Open Thread 2024-144
Comments
Those that would make it illegal to protest against Genocide
support the Psychopathic Genocidal Entity that has given voice to
the urge to kill us all (Samson Option).
Here is why they and it thinks it should exist:
1) I torture UN workers
2) I bomb embassies
3) I refuse to declare my official borders as I want more and more of other countries’ (plural) land
4) I openly interfere in the affairs of other countries.
5) All criticism by any member of the World Community just reinforces my sense of privileged Victimhood
6) I never tell a lie as I have no concept. I only know what serves me.
7) I invented the Samson Option and will take the rest of you with me.
8) I commit collective punishment
9) I kidnap thousands, including children, with no judicial oversight
10) I will commit torture if I see fit and even if I don’t
11) I oppress occupied inhabitants and enjoy doing so
12) I commit rape with impunity against mine enemies
13) I steal land with impunity
14) I murder with impunity
15) I commit premeditated Genocide
16) I look forward to war and prod my neighbors for more
17) I need money, send a check
18) I commit false flags and if friends or even my own people are sacrificed so be it.
19) I implement the Hannibal Doctrine
20) Treachery and betrayal of my own people are a means to an end
21) I support and conduct terrorism.
22) I openly interfere in the affairs of other countries, seeking support for all of the above
23) I know that I can count on other amoral nations to support my wars, oppression and theft.
24) I know that the World Community will not stop me as I commit future Genocides
25) I target aid trucks and kill their workers;
26) I especially target hospitals;
27) I kill civilians prisoners, women and children and old people.
—
Posted by: Sarah K | May 9 2024 15:54 utc | 151
28) I mutilate dead bodies.
29) I desecrate cemeteries.
30) I do not return dead prisoners to their families as they must ‘serve their term’ in prison.
31) I destroy municipal records, water infrastructure, universities, schools, churches, and mosques.
32) I routinize surveillance, humiliation, and dehumanization.
33) I bomb news agencies and journalists and enforce censorship internationally.
34) I publish videos on social media celebrating my sadism.
35) Anything I (and only I) do is justified.
—
36) I use my lobbyists to attack, intimidate and silence freedom of speech
Posted by: librul | May 19 2024 12:05 utc | 1
As I understand it, there are currently hearing at the International Court of Justice with South Africa trying to stop Rafa. Why is no one following it?
Many stations covered, here is PBS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fDqmpApSgg
Posted by: JimG | May 19 2024 12:08 utc | 2
Another, better link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJqdvRaGS84
Posted by: JimG | May 19 2024 12:09 utc | 3
@Posted by: JimG | May 19 2024 12:08 utc | 2
Here is what the NYT wrote about that:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/world/middleeast/icj-rafah-israel-gaza-south-africa.html
To see an archived version append, copy and paste, the above url to this url
http://web.archive.org/web/20240517135210/
Several members of the team addressed the court in an attempt to build their case, quoting frequently from warnings by senior United Nations officials that an assault on Rafah would worsen conditions for civilians and the enclave’s hunger crisis.
One member of South African legal team, Tembeka Ngcukaitobi, quoted statements by senior Israeli officials that he said showed an intent to destroy Gaza as a whole and not simply Hamas, the country’s stated enemy.
The legal team also asked the court to order Israel to facilitate access to Gaza for aid workers, investigators, fact-finding missions and journalists.
One of the lawyers, Adila Hassim, showed the court a photo of shattered buildings in Khan Younis, a city north of Rafah, to illustrate the devastation caused by Israel’s military in Gaza as a whole. Ms. Hassim appeared to be on the verge of tears as she described the deaths of children in the military campaign.
Israel has vehemently denied South Africa’s claims, repeating that it has placed no restrictions on the amount of aid entering the enclave and that it has taken steps recently to ramp up the amount of food and other supplies going in, including opening two crossing points in northern Gaza.
Israel has also said that its latest assault on eastern Rafah was a “precise operation” targeting only members of Hamas, the terrorist group that led the Oct. 7 attacks, which Israeli authorities say killed more than 1,200 Israelis and led to the capture of about 250 others.
Israel is expected to make its defense before the court on Friday.
Posted by: librul | May 19 2024 12:26 utc | 4
A helicopter crash carrying Iranian President Ibrahim Raisi is reported in the north-west of the country.
In addition to Raisi, Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir Abdulahian was also on board.
Iranian media write that rescuers are reaching the crash site, but there are no other details yet.
Intel Slava Z
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 13:48 utc | 5
The helicopter may also have included the Governor of East Azerbaijan, Ayatollah Al-Hashim, and Iranian Foreign Minister Hussein Emir Abdullahian.
Difficult weather conditions make it difficult for rescuers to access the site of the hard landing of the Iranian President’s helicopter, IRIB TV channel reports.
In total, there were three helicopters in the convoy of the Iranian President, two of them arrived at their destination, and the third crashed. The crew made contact on their own, and there is a possibility that there were no casualties , reports the Tasnim agency.
Intel Slava Z
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 13:49 utc | 6
Polli
“Peace is an antiseptic conspiracy ”
The US military declare war is peace!
” to get Jews to lower their guard.”
All the threats come from the Palestinian side. Victim pleading.
“The biggest threat to the state”
The state of Israel is only a tiny part of Judaism, and Likud ‘s European Nazism doesn’t represent any part of Judaism’s politics.
“is the left wing protesters.”
Ukrainian revisionist Zionism is an extreme right wing interpretation of Nazism acted in the name of the interests of non-Jewish people, while the European Nazis of Likud sacrifice all traditional Jewish beliefs of all other Jews, concentrating on the acquisition of a piece of land that they themselves were never promised.
Palestine was withheld from the Children of Israel for 40 years because they refused to enter Jerusalem in Peace, trusting in God.
It was never an unconditional.promise.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 13:53 utc | 7
Did Israel just try assassinate Iran President?
Literally anything to keep Bibi out of jail and the crazies in power
Posted by: Polli | May 19 2024 14:00 utc | 9
Resistance Round Up (18.May)
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/liquidated-resistance-roundup-day-225/
Comment – too many attacks on all fronts to summarize, just scroll through the list if interested.
Merkava tally now 183 claimed knocked out
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2024 14:04 utc | 10
Again the goals of the Shoa Aza are
Keep Bibi out of jail
Destroy the Israeli peace movement
Increase worldwide antisemitism
On Oct 6 the only thing that would keep Bibi out of jail was a war
The Palestinians a prop
Posted by: Polli | May 19 2024 14:06 utc | 11
Re: ICJ genocide lawsuit 3rd set of hearings
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/watch-live-icj-hear-south-africa-request-halt-israel-offensive-rafah-gaza
Link to full 2 hour South African presentation to court from last Thursday. Worth carefully listening to entire 2 hours.
Note around 30 minutes in one of the lawyers off hand mentions the ICJ advisory opinion of 2004 which opinined as the occupying power Israel has NO right of self defense Of Special interest is first 10 minutes where Chief Judge summarizes the court decisions to date. ( kinda devestating for team genocide )
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2024 14:09 utc | 13
responding to Posted by: Jane | May 18 2024 22:13 utc | 277 (Russia-China thread)
[1] Germans’ guilt about WW2 prevented them from processing the horrors that were visited upon them in the course of WW2.
However, [2] Gazans bear ZERO GUILT for what has happened to them since the Zionists started to lust after their land. Nevertheless this now 90-year atrocity has been suppressed and, if not 100% suppressed, distorted by both the state of Israel and “the West.”
Also, the data for bombs dropped is different from the data for death s
Really, Jane, are you that naive & unaware of the depth of deception that has taken place for all these years?
“[1] Germans are guilty” but “[2] GAZANS are NOT guilty.”
Sez who, in both cases?
On April 30, 1945, 130 German cities had been bombed to dust; 750 000 Germans were homeless.
How many Western newspapers posted photos and banner headlines of those realities?
A few days ago, John Mearsheimer was asked if “wars can be won without committing crimes.” He responded that “Russians did not commit crimes when they marched into Berlin.”
Mearsheimer did not MENTION that for 5 years Allied forces had been deliberately, criminally, bombing Japanese, German and other European civilians.
Allied forces — American, British, guided and aided by numerous Jews [Eric Mendelsohn; Solomon Zuckerman; David BenGurion] — directly caused that destruction and death in Germany.
So did Eisenhower.
The rubble, the corpses in Germany were real in April-May 1945, but nobody chose to notice.
Instead, Eisenhower flew Hollywood filmmakers to Germany to film dead bodies at concentration camps, not corpses in Hamburg, Dortmund, Dresden, etc.
Just because the world has seen corpses of children and destroyed mosques, churches, homes, libraries in Gaza, do you think for one New York minute that zionist Jews and their American enablers were admit culpability.
Did you hear the zionist lawyers at ICJ hearing a few days ago: “Israel is not committing genocide. Hamas is a terrorist organization; Hamas is GUILTY. We Jews dindunuffin.”
What apocalyptic event is going to occur that will cause zionist Israel and zionist USA to change its tune and admit culpability?
Have you seen the TikTok featuring Miriam Ingram, who identifies herself as a “Holocaust survivor”?
https://www.tiktok.com/@lamadamadam/video/7360828797681274155
Commenters universally praised her “courage” and said the clip should “go viral.”
For six months, 88-year old Ingram has been protesting for Peace outside the White House.
She carries a poster that says, in pink letters, that she is a “Holocaust survivor.”
Ingram was born and lived in Hamburg, Germany during WWII.
Hamburg was bombed 240 times during WWII; Ingram survived those bombing attacks.
As noted earlier, Richard Overy recorded that:
As part of a sustained campaign of strategic bombing during World War II, the attack during the last week of July 1943, code named Operation Gomorrah, created one of the largest firestorms raised by the Royal Air Force and United States Army Air Forces in World War II, killing an estimated 37,000 people in Hamburg, wounding 180,000 more, … and destroying 60% of the city’s houses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War_II
Miriam Ingram survived the Allied bombing of Hamburg, including “one of the largest firestorms raised by British and US Air Force.” She called it “surviving the Holocaust.”
Do you imagine that the death and destruction Zionist Israel has rained on Gaza will not be similarly inverted to once again place the GUILT on Gaza and “ZERO guilt” on Israel/USA?
By cementing in place the dogmatized “correct history” of WWII, Putin and Xi have condemned the people of Gaza to the same fate as has been borne by Germans all these years.
Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 14:16 utc | 14
CHANNEL 12: A fourth military brigade had been introduced to fight in Rafah, raising the number of brigades operating in Gaza to 9.
Comment – Orginal IDF plan was 2 brigades to crush Rafeh and 1 brigade to hold central axis for a total of 3 brigades. Now the IDF has thrown 9 brigades in.
quagmire comes to mind
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2024 14:18 utc | 15
@ChasMark
A few days ago, John Mearsheimer was asked if “wars can be won without committing crimes.” He responded that “Russians did not commit crimes when they marched into Berlin.”
That’s not true: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 14:21 utc | 16
librul 4
In one hour of Johm Meisheimer’s presentation to the Australian CIS, linked to by Lavrov’s Dog at the end of the last Palestine thread, hexwas unable to challenge the Oct 7 lies about Hannibal Massacre by Israelis, or Babies or Rape.
Until that is permitted in polite intellectual circles, garbage in , garbage out.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 14:30 utc | 17
Polli 11
In the world of war criminals, Bush, Blair, Obama, Cameron, Hague, Sunak and Biden, nobodyvever goes to jail.
It’s a destraction from the genocide to present Netanyahu as a ‘victim’of prosecution. He isn’t. Ukraine has shown us that even his Likudian revisionist zionist Nazism is regarded as normal by USUKIS PTB.
Netanyahu is irrelevant, because the US has supplied the genocide bombs, and UK the genocide IT infrastructure in Cyprus, and both countries have used their standing at the UN to foil the verdict of Israeli genocide.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 14:44 utc | 18
It should be noted that Israel and Azerbaijan have pretty good realtions. They have provided some significant arms, including drones.
Israeli arms quietly helped Azerbaijan retake Nagorno-Karabakh, to the dismay of region’s Armenians
The opposite is true with Iran to some degree
From the streets to the border: Iran’s growing paranoia toward Azerbaijan
Here is another gem of an article along those lines…
Israel’s Secret Staging Ground
It could be just an accident but the seeds of some possilbe future nefarious operations are in place and have been growing.
Posted by: circumspect | May 19 2024 14:47 utc | 19
Apollyon 16
” That’s not true “.
Meirsheimer’s comments are bound up in the Overton window of premissible discussion in Western polite intellectual circles. It’s a cheap
jibe from the Guardian against Meirsheimar when they are one of the chief gatekeepers of the Overton window themselves. FFS. See Craig Murray’s latest.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 14:56 utc | 20
RE: Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 14:21 utc | 16
The “Guardian” is your source? War crimes in war time are very precise. In any event, “Gaza” is not a “war”…neither was the “War on drugs” the “War on Terrorism” the many other pronouncements of “War” to engage in military hostilities. They are termed “wars” for funding and activating militarism globally by required Congress in U.S. case.
We haven’t had a “war” since WW2. They’ve all been border incursions, straight up invasions or military subjugation efforts. Even now, there are no “wars”. Just political militarized nonsense.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 15:02 utc | 21
Gijane 18
You misunderstand the relevance of anything said in a language that is not Hebrew, to Israeli politics.
Oct 6, Bibi was going to jail for incompetent corruption.
Israeli politics can only be discussed in Hebrew. In other languages we describe but have no relevance.
As you would learn in Uplan, Kohl ha lum antshemen
Posted by: Polli | May 19 2024 15:04 utc | 22
Israel’s oil comes from Azerbaijan.
Boris Johnson gave orders for the Genocide and troops.
” It could be just an accident but the seeds of some possilbe future nefarious operations are in place and have been growing.” Thanks.
NATO satellites monitor international airspace. Of course it’s not an accident when senior officials of the Iranian resistance die in plane accidents.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 15:04 utc | 23
“…By cementing in place the dogmatized “correct history” of WWII, Putin and Xi have condemned the people of Gaza to the same fate as has been borne by Germans all these years.”
ChasMark@14:16 utc | 14
I’m unsure what you are telling us but how do you know what China and Russia are calling the ‘correct history’ of the War?
So far as I can see they are simply saying that the time has come to revise the accounts that imperialist historians have been producing for the past eighty years.
There is no doubt that the war in China, its causes and progress, have not been properly understood in the imperialist ‘west’ which has tended to view everything through Cold War, anti-communist, lenses thus puttingthe Japanese Imperial forces in the peculiar position of being the most vicious of imperialism’s enemies while usefully defending ‘freedom and democracy’ from indigenous natinalism and socialist reform.
To change the subject: this Boston Review article, by Robin D G Kelley goes well with the selection b has given us in the Week in Review.
“In December the House Committee on Education and the Workforce held a hearing on anti-Semitism on college campuses that forced University of Pennsylvania president Liz McGill and Harvard University president Claudine Gay to resign in its wake. In April the committee held another hearing, reducing Columbia University President Minouche Shafik, keen to avoid the fate of her counterparts, to a groveling mess. On May 23 it will hold yet another, under the title “Calling for Accountability: Stopping Antisemitic College Chaos.”
“This time the committee has summoned Michael Schill, president of Northwestern University; Jonathan Holloway, president of Rutgers University; and Gene Block, Chancellor of the University of California, Los Angeles. We expect another show trial, where committee chair Virginia Foxx (Republican of North Carolina), Elise Stefanik (Republican of New York), and their friends pressure “liberal” university leaders into confessing that anti-Semitism has run amok on college campuses, that Jewish students are the real victims of a Hamas-backed genocide being plotted in Gaza solidarity encampments and the classrooms of tenured radicals, and that the source of Jew hatred is critical race theory….”
https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/uclas-unholy-alliance/
Posted by: bevin | May 19 2024 15:04 utc | 24
Polli 22
No he wasn’t. You fail to understand that Israel is just another proxy of USUK imperialism , along with Alshebab, Azov, AL Qaida and Daesh.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 15:09 utc | 25
US officials believe Iranian President Raisi has been assassinated.
Biden was briefed.
Lord Of War
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 15:20 utc | 26
“”[1] Germans are guilty” but “[2] GAZANS are NOT guilty.”
Sez who, in both cases?
ChasMark @ 14
=============================
Really, ChasMark, can’t you read?
Do not put words into my mouth.
BTW and FYI, it is GERMANS THEMSELVES who have stated that they were unable to process the horrific events they experienced.
If you have been posting at MoA for any amount of time you would know what I have written on the topic of German guilt.
However, this thread is about Palestine and the horror in Gaza.
You want to lecture about the fire bombings in WW2.
I suspect your motives in this effort.
Including in entangling me (and others) in an endless, pointless go=round with you.
You are tiresome.
I don’t have time for you.
I am on my way to our weekly standout in support of Palestine and demanding an immediate ceasefire.
Goodbye.
Posted by: Jane | May 19 2024 15:21 utc | 27
So what do you think will be Irans response will be for their Presidents assassination by Israel?
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 19 2024 15:23 utc | 28
@Trubind1
“The “Guardian” is your source?”
No. My sources are my relatives who fled Prussia from the advancing Red Army in 1945.
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 15:24 utc | 29
Margarita Simonyan’s TG:
And Raisi’s helicopter fell by accident because of the fog, and Fico was shot by a crazy grandfather, and Olof Palme, and Kennedy. Shit happens.
But it happens most reliably with careful professional training carried out by the rulers of shit.
“>https://t.me/margaritasimonyan/13991
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 15:32 utc | 30
Latest on Raisi from Presstv, Intel Slava Z & Southfront is 1. they were in contact with the crew, 2. Reisi is alive (unconfirmed by direct contact) & 3. rescuers reached the helicopter a few minutes ago.
It seems “hard landing” is accurate (vs crash).
Video of area makes very dense fog as likely cause.
Posted by: Mary | May 19 2024 15:42 utc | 31
Can’t find info what type of helicopter. Anybody knows?
Iran has difficulties procuring spare parts to maintain old western aircraft.
Though I wouldn’t expect Raisi to fly in one of those.
(nb, Ahmadinejad was also involved in a helicopter ‘incident’ in 2013.)
Posted by: smuks | May 19 2024 15:43 utc | 32
Trubind1 21
More like it’s a Crusade against which on the Muslim side nobody much wants to fight. After the Qur’an accurately described the lies and cheating of the Jews, many probably feel the case is proven against them.
This Crusade will go from West Asia to South Asia and East Asia.
Very soon we will realise the advantage of cutting the snake’s head off at a time and ace of our own choosing.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 15:46 utc | 33
US officials believe Iranian President Raisi has been assassinated.
@ Apollyon | May 19 2024 15:20 utc | 26
After all, we have the receipts…
Raisi (with some Azerbaijani leaders) was brought down to satisfy an urgent addiction to perpetual mayhem. Israelis cannot “feel safe” until everyone else is dead.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 19 2024 15:49 utc | 34
Iran won’t achieve escalation dominance until it’s an eye for an eye. That will be very difficult without triggering US involvement.
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 19 2024 16:00 utc | 35
Re: Sanctions and Spare Parts
Iran makes its own spare parts for aircraft these days.
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2024 16:03 utc | 36
DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Benny Gantz, a popular centrist member of Israel’s three-member War Cabinet, threatened Saturday to resign from the government if it doesn’t adopt a new plan in three weeks’ time for the war in Gaza, a decision that would leave Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu more reliant on far-right allies.
The announcement deepens a divide in Israel’s leadership more than seven months into a war in which Israel has yet to accomplish its goals of dismantling Hamas and returning scores of hostages abducted in the militant group’s Oct. 7 attack.
Gantz spelled out a six-point plan that includes the return of hostages, ending Hamas’ rule, demilitarizing the Gaza Strip and establishing an international administration of civilian affairs with American, European, Arab and Palestinian cooperation. The plan also supports efforts to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia and widen military service to all Israelis.
What effect would his resignation have?
Posted by: KingCobra | May 19 2024 16:12 utc | 37
Imagine all of the scores that will be attempted to be settled when ww3 is going in earnest.
Not just country vs country and people vs people but citizen vs quisling, citizen vs foreigner, even brother vs brother or employee vs employer, boomer vs zoomer.
Use the last days of normalcy to double check the historical accounts of things you _thought_ you understood but others push you on.
Use these last days of normalcy to make sure you are on good terms with the people you want to be on good terms with.
Posted by: ryanggg | May 19 2024 16:12 utc | 38
KingCobra | May 19 2024 16:12 utc | 37
“What effect would his resignation have?”
He could join Zelensky in the queue in front of the labour exchange, lookng for a new job.
In other words no effect, as Bibi will not leave – he doesn’t seem to have any other alternative except a continuation of the massacres. The original plan, that of elimination the Palestinian occupants of Gaza now has the prospective “aid” of the Americans (via the pier) and the plan to expulse them.
What is missing is where they are supposed to be “voluntarily” deported to. Obviously the suckers are supposed to be the Arabic states, but it is not clear that they would be on board taking 2.3 million angry dispossessed Palestinians.
Pepe Escobar, doesn’t have a good track record of late but hard not to draw the same conclusion:
No “accident”.
MAJOR strategic mistake of cramming the top government circle on the SAME copter for a visit to a very dodgy border.
“>https://t.me/rocknrollgeopolitics/11255
USA and Israel are desperate to nuke Iran, who repeatedly refuses to take the bait (imagine that). Precarious times, if Iran doesn’t have nukes it’s going to wish it did. USA is crossing red lines everywhere for a reason, it’s not fumbling or wanton, it was hoping for the easy road with Russia, then China, then goodbye Iran and DPRK, but it all went down the hard road instead, and apparently they are good with that too.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 16:33 utc | 40
Use these last days of normalcy to make sure you are on good terms with the people you want to be on good terms with.
Posted by: ryanggg | May 19 2024 16:12 utc | 38
I think this is a very valuable advice at the moment. Unfortunately I’m in a big fight with my 80 year old mother and I won’t back down again this time. Maybe I’m even praying for a WW right now, I just want to see the current human race to be replaced by something else and maybe God should start from scratch.
Posted by: Zet | May 19 2024 16:36 utc | 41
NBC: “Announcement of the death of the Iranian President and Foreign Minister could be made at any time.”
“>https://t.me/Slavyangrad/98690
Western media calling the game in the 7th inning like they called it that “ISIS” attacked Crocus. From the other side of the planet yet always one step ahead, makes yah wonder. Jumping the gun is part of the provocation, it’s called “wink wink wasn’t us” and gloating.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 16:48 utc | 42
@Zet
“I just want to see the current human race to be replaced by something else and maybe God should start from scratch.”
Same here.
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 16:49 utc | 43
CORRECTION TO Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 14:16 utc | 14
responding to
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 14:21 utc | 16
and
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 14:56 utc | 20
(responding to Jane is pointless. Head so far up posterior that inversions of reality seem correct.)
____
THIS statement in ChasMark post @14:16 is INCORRECT and grievously mis-states Mearsheimer’s position.
I have since found the exact conversation — Piers Morgan & John Mearsheimer, Apr 26, 2024.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlLubLH5QfE
TO summarize the actual exchange between Morgan and Mearsheimer:
Morgan asked, “Does any country defend itself without committing a war crime?”
Mearsheimer responded, “Soviets did not commit many war crimes in the ground-war offensive against Berlin. . . .There was no use of nuclear weapons, no bombing of cities. There was a lot of rape and pillaging.
Direct quote:
MEARSHEIMER: “This was not u a uh purposeful campaign to murder huge numbers of civilians so you can fight a war on the ground involving two armies that basically avoids uh the problem of bombing cities and murdering huge numbers of civilians.“
Morgan pressed on: “What if the Nazis are bombing cities, as they were?”
Mearsheimer responding, carefully drawing the distinction between the RAF’s legitimate use of aerial bombing to defend against the German bombing of British cities, vs. the campaign devised by Arthur Harris to deliberate firebomb German cities with the goal of killing masses of civilians, which was a war crime.
QUOTE:
“what bomber Harris did and the RAF did against German cities this was a war crime they were purposely bombing working class areas in German cities because they believed that would maximize— that strategy would maximize the number of civilians [Morgan interrupts]”
Morgan countered that the British air war against German cities “targeted industrial cities in the main which were being used to build munitions so they were legitimate targets.”
Mearsheimer responded, “That is not true.”
Morgan replied, “Yes it is.”
Mearsheimer offered reasons why it was not true that “British were targeting industrial cities.”
Whereupon Morgan broke off and initiated a different line of discussion.
IN SUMMARY: Contrary to my earlier statement, Mearsheimer DID name and condemn as war crimes British deliberate bombing of German cities/civilians.
(The topic did not arise, but it is also true and documented by US Department of Interior as well as US military film, that US Air Force planned, researched, practiced and perfected the bombing of German (and Japanese) civilians; that the planning demonstrated the intention to kill “working class German civilians, including infants in cribs.” Facts on the ground demonstrate irrefutably that these plans were carried out.
Good luck to Jane with her protest/demonstration.
How’s that working out so far for the children of Gaza?
I prefer to think that, had the people of Germany not been deliberately spiritually & morally castrated by the British and Americans at the behest of zionist Jews, that they would be defending the people of Gaza rather than supporting zionist criminality.
Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 16:57 utc | 44
@Chas Jane didn’t say Germans were guilty in a judgemental way from how I read. Guilt can be a natural sense of realisation or it can be imposed.
I am sure feelings of guilt were experienced by many on all sides, those were publicly excused for some, and reinforced for others.
Once subjugated Germans were forced to face the negative side of their conduct, and that was to be the basis of all judgement of their actions and so also justification for German losses. In other words to “process” great destruction visited as due to own culpability is not straightforward, or even always true.
For sure though, Germans were guilty to whatever extent, as were or are all others in WW2 to whatever own extent. Crimes occured on all sides.
I understand what you are trying to say, that guilt would be used to manipulate regarding Palestine also.
Jane, you appear to insist on the innocence of Palestinians in this conflict and with which I almost totally agree. Chas is just pointing out that that is not a guaranteed defence, nor certain to remain as accepted version. I don’t think he was trying to wash Germans of guilt by comparing WW2 reality to Gaza.
To compare Gaza to WW2 is often unfortunate, even though much current reality is heavily influenced by and directly descended from events of the last century.
The media uses the horrors of WW2 as a litmus only because those are so strongly engraved on western conscience as to be a parameter of unquestionable unacceptability. Unfortunately that often comes across as an olympiad of degeneracy.
From where I am looking though, even one innocent life taken, even as “colateral damage”, is wrong and an endless source of sadness.
Hope I didn’t misunderstand anyone there. The topic really belongs in the open thread I think.
Posted by: Ornot | May 19 2024 17:00 utc | 45
The revelation of just how extensive and powerful the Israel lobby is within western states proceeds. That the United States has been reduced to half-baked schemes such as the Gaza pier and a “swing-for-the-fences” assassination plot even as it holds ALL the leverage, appears inexplicable and yet…
“The United States is focused on tracking down Hamas’s Gaza chief, Yahya Sinwar, amid a new push by the White House to help Israel declare “total victory” so it can bring an end to the war on Gaza…the US was expanding its search efforts across the region…Tracking Sinwar has taken on a new urgency within the US intelligence community because the Biden administration believes it could help pressure Israel to end the war by declaring victory…”
US focused on hunting down Hamas chief Yahya Sinwar, in bid to end Gaza war
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-focus-tracking-yahya-sinwar-bid-end-gaza-war
Posted by: jayc | May 19 2024 17:11 utc | 47
LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 16:48 utc | 42
Don’t we all love to indulge in speculation, at times…
The timing would be perfect, with Israel’s war going nowhere & domestic protests increasing.
At the same time, all bets are off in Ukraine as to what will happen in coming days.
But really, we don’t know anything & have to wait.
For now, I’m with Mary | May 19 2024 15:42 utc | 31 :
It seems “hard landing” is accurate (vs crash).
Video of area makes very dense fog as likely cause.
Posted by: smuks | May 19 2024 17:17 utc | 48
The United States is focused on tracking down Hamas’s Gaza chief, Yahya Sinwar, amid a new push by the White House to help Israel declare “total victory” so it can bring an end to the war on Gaza.
Easy fix. Pretend to get the guy and give him a Bin Laden burial at sea.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | May 19 2024 17:20 utc | 49
Is RT spouting nonsense, or actually reporting?
https://www.rt.com/news/597844-raisi-iran-president-helicopter/
Updates:
“19 May 2024
17:07 GMT
West Jerusalem had nothing to do with the crash of the Iranian president’s helicopter, Israeli Channel 13 reports, citing officials.”
“16:08 GMT
US President Biden is rushing to the White House for an emergency meeting following Raisi’s helicopter incident, an administration official told Reuters.”
“15:50 GMT
IRIB News on Telegram is reporting that the search teams are approaching the accident site.”
“15:34 GMT
In the event of the death of Raisi, the person expected to replace him in office, at least temporarily, is First Vice President Mohammad Mokhber.”
“15:24 GMT
The head of Iran’s Red Crescent reported that one of the search and rescue teams had reached the site where the Iranian president’s helicopter had made a hard landing.”
Maybe all heresay and pomp.
Nothing official from Iranian sources that I know of.
??
Israel quick to deny… Is WH account correct?
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 17:25 utc | 50
Khamanei has spoken about it according to Al Mayadeen.
Posted by: Glasshopper | May 19 2024 17:29 utc | 51
The European Union has activated its Copernicus satellite system to offer emergency mapping services to help Iranian officials gain better visibility of the area where the crash is believed to have occurred, according to the bloc’s chief for crisis management, Janez Lenarcic. He said the E.U. had done so after a request for assistance by Iran.
NYT
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 17:43 utc | 52
Contact has been established with two passengers of the Iranian President’s helicopter, Fars agency reports.
Lord Of War
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 17:48 utc | 53
Only two options: accident or not accident. For the first, the stupidity is fantastic, to fly alone in that fog and wind. For the second, the stupidity is also fantastic. Observe how even actor Zeli flies: always surrounded by f16s. And no one wants to kill him anyway. And Iran asked EU for help with satellite scans, at least that’s what EU says. Probably radar, optical won’t see anything in that weather
Posted by: rk | May 19 2024 18:02 utc | 54
Short footage of rescue team looking for the crashed helicopter.
https://farsnews.ir/Sayeh/1716127592962347420/First-Footage-of-Rescue-Teams-at-President-Rayeesi's-Helicopter-Hard-Landing-Area
Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 19 2024 18:04 utc | 55
Trubind1 @ 50
I watched RT USA and UK for years when it was on TV, mostly for Lee Camp, Hedges, Rattansi, Ventura, Larry King wound up there too. Better than any western media, much more hip and with it without being annoying, no NPR voice noted by a cadence that sounds like a presenter at a grade school birthday party, which is intentional (infantilization of the audience). But RT was modeled on western media and news-wise they were pretty tentative, uninspired and conventional, Global Times and CGTN beats RT hands down for news, and GB has regained a lot of 1950-60s commie bite.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 18:12 utc | 56
this one (preview channel works on windows) seems to have updates, they found the location but have not yet made visual/physical contact
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 19 2024 18:22 utc | 57
RE: Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 18:12 utc | 56
Thanks for info Light. It’s just getting where EVERY Nation has something to conceal, obfuscate, exploit, lie, dramatize, over-inflate, under-inflate, and becoming a newsreel of such agenda driven material, it’s unlikely “facts” are anywhere to be found anymore. Maybe they never were.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 18:31 utc | 58
The longer this “search” goes on, the stupider it’s getting. Almost like a coordinated story is being brewed.
I get 2 hikers wondering in Yosemite being “lost” for hours or days. But this is just brazenly idiotic. Of course there are “signatures”, heat and otherwise, of course this was the most pinpointed surveillances of a national entourage. This isn’t some random helicopter “lost in the fog” scenario.
I get not being able to reach a crash site right away, but the “not finding” it crap is hogwash, and the idea of life signatures, past an hour of this, is also hogwash.
Only question is now: What’s the official story going to be?
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 18:58 utc | 59
The incident involving the Iranian President’s helicopter has all the hallmarks of special operation.
The location is perfect. The special group, would have a short march to escape to the Azerbaijani border. As the videos show its mountainous and a deserted area.
Ironically the actual target wasn’t the President but most likely the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Abdollohian. The Israeli’s believe he’s involved in the events of October 7th.
More reliable information will appear in two days.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 19 2024 19:01 utc | 60
Trubind1 | May 19 2024 18:58 utc | 59
Information circulating through Syria, is that none of those on board the helicopter are alive and the Iranian authorities are aware of this.
Moreover, there are two rescue operations: one actually carried out and the other a rescue operation demonstrated for the media, which aims to delay time and reduce the possible emotional discontent of the Iranian people that could have occurred if the death of Iranian President Ibrahim Raisi had been announced almost immediately.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 19 2024 19:13 utc | 61
“19 May 2024
18:38 GMT
The Iranian Red Crescent Society is denying reports that Raisi’s helicopter had been discovered. An earlier communication was reported by PressTV by mistake. So far, only the coordinates of the crash have been established.”
Good grief, Iran to date has the most sophisticated drones anywhere. If unable to “reach site”… send a drone, like hours ago.
Whatevs… prepping their own citizens for whatever the story is going to be about it all. Who flys in dense fog like that?
Such a bunk story all the way through.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 19:17 utc | 62
Expecting chaos?
OSINTdefender
@sentdefender
Follow
“A Significant Deployment of Iranian Security and Military Personnel has been noted across the Capital of Tehran, with Members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) claimed to be taking up Positions near several Government Buildings.“
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 19:21 utc | 63
It does not sound so good..
Iran president search latest: Contact made with passenger and crew member, says official as rescuers search for Ebrahim Raisi
Last-known picture of helicopter carrying president released
Posted by: circumspect | May 19 2024 19:25 utc | 64
AL Manar… Hezbollah announced yesterday & confirmed today:
“US Sullivan arrives in Zionist entity, starts meetings with Netanyahu, Israeli officials: Israeli media”
More meetings, going no where. Gantz out of control. Gantz wants swifter genocide and occupation of Gaza. Netanyahu trying to not totally destroy PR for US.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 19:28 utc | 65
Is Iran really buying American made Bell Helicopters?
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | May 19 2024 19:29 utc | 66
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 19 2024 19:01 utc | 60
Ironically the actual target wasn’t the President but most likely the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Abdollohian. The Israeli’s believe he’s involved in the events of October 7th.
<=heavy fog does not down a modern aircraft and GPS gives accurate up to date location information.. its likely the masses of Irainian people are going to demand a response and the government of Iran is going to have no choice ?
When I heard Biden was returning to the white house I suspected survivors were considered unlikely. But how did Biden's leaders discover so quickly when the rest of the world was waiting just to locate the downed aircraft? I want to hear what Russia and China aviation experts have to say about this?
Posted by: snake | May 19 2024 19:33 utc | 67
ZH has a posting up with the title
Iranian President’s Helicopter Located, Military Deployed To Tehran’s Streets: State Media
The quote
Update(1420ET): We are getting closer to learning the fate of Iran’s President Raisi and his foreign minister and other officials aboard the helicopter which went down hours ago:
Iran’s president Raisi’s crashed helicopter has been found by search teams – State TV — Reuters
Iranian official tells State TV: Contacts have been made with one of the passengers and one of the crew members of the president’s helicopter on several occasions — Reuters
The Red Crescent organization is denying that the crash site has been found, amid contradictory and early reporting. So far Iranian officials are signaling that the president is alive, but the situation remains uncertain and fluid, following widespread speculation that he could be deceased.
Posted by: psychohistorian | May 19 2024 19:42 utc | 68
„Is Iran really buying American made Bell Helicopters?“
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | May 19 2024 19:29 utc | 66
I don’t know if they have bought them recently. But the Iranian air force still has various American aircraft in its inventory that they bought before the revolution (1979). For example, they still fly the F-14 Tomcat or the F-4 Phantom II and also the F-5.
Posted by: NoName | May 19 2024 19:44 utc | 69
First Fico, then Raisi. MI6 or CIA would not have done this so quickly in succession.
Are we to wait for a third drop to perceive that it is enemy action?
Iran is not retaliating based on the suppositions of barflies. They will get solid confirmation. Then it is game on.
How would it be better for Iran if they exercised patience or turned the other cheek?
Posted by: oldhippie | May 19 2024 19:53 utc | 70
One has to wonder if the dowing of the helicopter that was carrying the President and Minister of Defense might have been caused by the engines ingesting either 20mm or 25mm projectiles from an F-22 or F-35.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 19 2024 19:56 utc | 71
So all three helicopters carrying the Iranian president and other high ranking officials ‘crashed’?
Ya, seems plausible 🤣
Posted by: RP | May 19 2024 19:57 utc | 72
So all three helicopters carrying the Iranian president and other high ranking officials ‘crashed’?
Ya, seems plausible 🤣
Posted by: RP | May 19 2024 19:57 utc | 72
Where is anyone saying that? Try reading.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 19 2024 20:06 utc | 73
The topic really belongs in the open thread I think.
Posted by: Ornot | May 19 2024 17:00 utc | 45
=================
What I said.
Have fun with the spouting and spewing of ChasMark, who mocks and wishes failure on those are trying to do something for the children of Gaza.
Obnoxious.
And odd, to say the least . . .
In my community—one known to many—solidarity with the Palestinians, and understanding of the scope and danger of Zionist influence in our government and institutions are definitely growing.
Ilan Pappe and Max Blumenthal are just two individuals who have emphasized the importance of keeping up the pressure on Biden, the Zionists, and all the genocidaires. And of standing with the students who are challenging the Zionist narrative and their institutions’ subservience to Zionist donors and other Zionist entities and interests. The cynical CM and the horse he rode in on can take a flying eff.
Posted by: Jane | May 19 2024 20:09 utc | 74
The mystery deepens…if a helicopter with the first (second) person of the state and also a key minister crashes, or communication with it is lost, then surely the protocols would have had seen the other two helicopters stay close until helped arrived or their fuel ran out and then land close to the area.
They are clearly not telling us something.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 19 2024 20:10 utc | 75
Posted by: oldhippie | May 19 2024 19:53 utc | 70
Israel wants an escalation either to drag the U.S. into this or as a pretext to drop a nuclear bomb on Iran.
The US needs to shoot its rapid dog before this poker game gets us all killed.
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 19 2024 20:11 utc | 76
As Ireland prepares to recognise The State of Palestine before end of May …
… a little history on 3 links between Ireland and Palestine [11 mins]
Ireland & Palestine: 3 Historical Links You Didn’t Know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duZ9WTcjQbo
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 19 2024 20:14 utc | 77
Of course the ones who love chaos & trouble will try to exploit this, but it seems that whatever will be will be ok.
‘Iran, Russia & China are friends who have recently said “anything you need” to each other. They totally agree that Genocide is taking place in Palestine.’ -Pepe Escobar in the Cradle back around May 4
Posted by: Will Seymore | May 19 2024 20:15 utc | 78
Gaza news now
Iranian television stops broadcasting and broadcasts the Holy Qur’an in preparation for an important announcement against the backdrop of the president’s plane accident
Posted by: Ornot | May 19 2024 20:21 utc | 79
Posted by: Jane | May 19 2024 20:09 utc | 74
Stop that slanderous nonsense, Jane.
You are out of bounds, exhibiting a sense of self-importance exceeded only by your ignorance.
Grow up or shut up.
Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 20:24 utc | 80
The president of Iran, foreign minister and local official have crashed in a helicopter. Rescue teams had not yet arrived on site as of 4 hours ago.
https://youtu.be/3uyULAVmQs0?si=jrTGOvxNZm-9vgyJ
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 20:31 utc | 81
From someone who regularly posts diatribes (rightfully) proclaiming all western nations’ governments and elites are subservient not to their citizens nor constituents but to evil spirits of the nephilim, I find the speculative theories regarding the crash unfounded.
Vast mountainous terrain covered by fog and rain is amongst the most difficult to locate anything in. Ask a moonshiner. Drones even with flir aren’t spotting jack, if they can even fly in the present conditions. There’s certainly no cellular coverage as cell towers take a minimum of a 1gb fiber connection and that terrain is looking rather tough to bore and lay conduit through plus where would they home the tower back to? Even a 100k LR optic would require a wild provisioning through dense forest at great elevation. Satellite comms won’t even be stable there with the current atmospheric conditions.
Anything can be possible but an F-35 managing to take off in the rain? Give me a break!
I do support and encourage defiant thinking and ideas however, keep it up.
Prayers for the best outcome.
What is known at this time is that there was extreme weather conditions when the helicopter disappeared. Fog and Rain are hampering rescue efforts. This was the most likely cause what’s been called a crash. Everyone is being very clear that it’s all speculation at this point.
However there were reports that the pilot chose to do a hard Landing. Meaning that with zero visibility the pilot took the helicopter down immediately.
There is also quite a bit of speculation regarding the conditions of the helicopters and aviation in general due to sanctions.
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 20:43 utc | 83
The president was there to meet with Azerbaijan officials I believe. A diplomatic reconciliation effort. The local official was the governor of one of 31 regions in Iran. There was also an Imam on board.
Hopefully I didn’t distort or mangle any of that information.
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 20:46 utc | 84
The helicopter had a double agent in his tripulation and may be iranian president is dead or arrested. Why not?
Posted by: alberto | May 19 2024 20:46 utc | 85
Posted by: Jane | May 19 2024 20:09 utc | 74
“In my community—one known to many—solidarity with the Palestinians, and understanding of the scope and danger of Zionist influence in our government and institutions are definitely growing.
“Ilan Pappe and Max Blumenthal are just two individuals who have emphasized the importance of keeping up the pressure on Biden, the Zionists, and all the genocidaires. And of standing with the students who are challenging the Zionist narrative and their institutions’ subservience to Zionist donors and other Zionist entities and interests. The cynical CM and the horse he rode in on can take a flying eff.”
More than one way to skin a cat, Jane.
By all means, “keep up the pressure on Biden.”
What are your metrics for success?
Are you aware of Tikvah? Have your heard Eric Cohen’s response to the Student Protesters?
Didn’t think so.
How about the letter signed by several hundred Jewish students from Columbia that whatz-his-name Davidai is circulating, the letter that condemns student protesters with special opprobrium toward JVP.
Has “your community” responded to that letter? Are you even aware of it?
Didn’t think so.
Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 20:47 utc | 86
Old Sovietologist @ 61
This makes the most sense of what is an ever more dubious situation.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 20:51 utc | 87
First Fico now Raisi who’s next Lukashenko?
The Mad dogs at the Pentagon, Brussels, Westminster and Tel Aviv are making moves.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 19 2024 20:56 utc | 88
As of 2 hours ago there are more than 40 teams involved in the search for the Iranian president and downed helicopter. Drones are proving ineffective due to foggy conditions. A lesson well learning in other theaters of War.
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 20:58 utc | 89
I failed to mention that the area of the crashes inaccessible via Road. The search teams have gone into the area on foot and with dogs. They may have now reached the site but people are awaiting a report.
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 21:01 utc | 90
Multiple sources have confirmed that the problem with the search is that these are densely treed mountainous areas.
Much of the speculation is now taking the form of condolences and prayers from a number of countries and world leaders. State TV is asking Iranians to pray for the president. Casualties are highly likely regardless of the landing.
There has been no mention at all of this being anything else other than an accident. So hope send prayers for the Iranian people and all on board.
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 21:08 utc | 91
“Posted by: librul | May 19 2024 12:05 utc | 1”
It’s been pretty obvious for a long time that the Powers That Be in the USA and vassal states want to replace most of us with robot slaves. We humans are fun to rape and torture, but otherwise we are too expensive and too rebellious.
Posted by: lester | May 19 2024 21:26 utc | 92
India is showing its solidarity with Iran. However what is notable is that the EU has activated its satellite mapping service to assist in the search.
Although this may be tragic, there is a lot of diplomacy resulting from it.
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 21:29 utc | 93
Hum… investigating? Normal I guess as they as still searching:
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/05/19/725884/Iran-IRGC-Salami-President-Raeisi-helicopter-incident
“IRGC chief cmdr. travels to site of incident involving presidential helicopter”
Highlights:
“A number of the Corps’ other commanders also accompanied Salami during the visit that was made so the top brass can examine the situation on the ground and issue relevant directives to expedite the search process.”
“The trip came after Chief of Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces Major General Mohammad Baqeri ordered the mobilization of all resources and capabilities of the Army, the Corps, and the Police Command to assist in the search and rescue operations.”
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 21:47 utc | 94
They are obviously having some serious troubles finding the crashed helicopter. That opens a whole world of speculation. Taking a copter down for a hard landing in forested mountainous terrain in thick fog is not a good recipe for an effective auto rotation incident. Appaerently Iran purchased 16 or so Bell helicopters for the Red Crescent Society some years back.
EU activates rapid response mapping to locate missing Iranian President after helicopter crash
Taking someone down in a planned fashion far away from civilization where you are ready to snatch the effected entourage is certainly possible. It is streach of the imagination but I put nothing past their enemies.
Posted by: circumspect | May 19 2024 21:50 utc | 95
Posted by: David G Horsman | May 19 2024 21:29 utc | 93
Thanks for the breaking CNN updates. What is Wolf saying in the Situation Room about it now?
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 19 2024 21:51 utc | 96
Didn’t think so.
Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 20:47 utc | 86
==============
You are not making sense.
Do splutter away.
It’s entertaining!
Posted by: Jane | May 19 2024 21:58 utc | 97
If, as some esotericists have claimed – lots of German forces — have reincarnated in Israel is true- it would help in understanding the situation taking place in Palestine today.
Can Jews be Nazis? By Stephen F. Eisenman, CounterPunch (Jan 2024)
The question, “Can Jews be Nazis?” is… important for challenging claims of moral inoculation by virtue of the Jewish experience of the Holocaust. If Israeli leaders are indeed committing a genocide in Gaza – as seems the case — they inhabit the same moral universe as the German Nazis, regardless of the suffering of past generations.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/05/17/can-jews-be-nazis/
Posted by: Toby C | May 19 2024 21:58 utc | 98
I’m starting to wonder if this isn’t some Ajerbani/Israeli “kidnapping” -extortion thing. That’s why no “news”… stupid, this posted 5/18… Maybe Israeli Mossad Mafia cult not happy with US or US didn’t get desired results from “talks”.
Highlights:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/18/us/politics/us-iran-talks-oman.html
“U.S. and Iranian Officials Held Indirect Talks in Oman on Risks of a Wider War”
The talks were the first since Iran attacked Israel last month in retaliation for its killing of an Iranian general.
“Brett McGurk, the top White House official on Middle East policy, and Abram Paley, the deputy special envoy for Iran, attended the talks in Oman. The goal was to try to get Iran, which supplies weapons and training to militias across the Middle East, to move to rein in its partners. Since the Israel-Hamas war broke out, several Iran-backed militias in Iraq and Syria have stepped up attacks on American troops, raising fears of a wider war.”
“The most powerful of the regional militias, Lebanon-based Hezbollah, has been exchanging fire with the Israeli military in northern Israel and southern Lebanon. However, U.S. intelligence officials assess that neither Hezbollah nor Iran wants to engage in a wider war.”
“ conducted through intermediaries and back channels. The format of the talks in Oman was similar to ones held in January: The Americans sat in one room while their Iranian counterparts sat in another, and Omani officials shuttled between the rooms. The new set of talks was first reported by Axios.”
“Mr. Sullivan was expected to travel to Saudi Arabia and Israel this weekend to discuss issues involving the Israel-Hamas war; a potential broad diplomatic and security deal involving the United States, Saudi Arabia and Israel; and the threat of Iran.”
Only other thing I’ve notified, on PressTV site, they listed numerous Countries and their subsequent statements, SA, Turkey, US, Pakistan, India ect that responded with various platitudes of “wishing well in search” blah blah…
Zip so far officially (at least that I know of) directly from China or Russia as of an hour ago.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 22:02 utc | 99
Meant, maybe he or them are actually captive, and this is actually a rescue & recovery operation, perhaps there was even gunfire everywhere.
Now… I’m really in fantasy land, but hey, Mirandi on Galloway MOATS show stated he saw the pictictures and videos of Raisi getting in helicopter leaving Dam area and weather was fine and all clear, and this “very sudden” storm and fog and blah blah came about…
So, I’m just throwing in my imaginary version since nothing is making any sense at the moment.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 22:13 utc | 100