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May 1, 2024
Palestine Open Thread 2024-126
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
call it is not real is ra heil hell. Posted by: todd | May 2 2024 12:22 utc | 201 https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/us-campus-chaos-a-new-oct-7-on-the
Good piece, well worth reading the whole thing. Exile @ 175 Posted by: oldhippie | May 2 2024 13:20 utc | 203 Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | May 2 2024 9:29 utc | 184 Posted by: Sarah K | May 2 2024 13:21 utc | 204 Thank you, Susan. 🙂 I am not of enough means to donate to legal funds. But it is a hopeful idea. Posted by: titmouse | May 2 2024 13:25 utc | 205 The picture is mixed. This is frlm the Washington Post’s summary of what is happening: Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 13:27 utc | 206 scorpion @203 Posted by: oldhippie | May 2 2024 13:34 utc | 207 Naomi Wolf is on some sort of psychedelic overdose. Has been for a while. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 2 2024 13:41 utc | 208 “These protests are not solely organic.” Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 2 2024 13:42 utc | 209 “…Students more knowledgeable and compassionate could as easily call for a ceasefire; for peace talks; and for all sides to obey the international rules of war. Posted by: juliania | May 2 2024 13:50 utc | 210 Posted by: oldhippie | May 2 2024 13:34 utc | 208 scorpion @ 212 Posted by: oldhippie | May 2 2024 13:59 utc | 212 Posted by: titmouse | May 2 2024 13:25 utc | 206 Posted by: Sarah K | May 2 2024 14:11 utc | 213 Catch it live and piping hot: Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 2 2024 14:14 utc | 215 thanks Todd. I have Tragedy and Hope. That’s the one I find difficult to read because: No chapter heads. No index. No references. No bibliography. I haven’t had the time to create my own index so I can really study the book, although many people tout it. There is so much else to read. Yes, I’m a big fan of Mullins and have many of his books including the bio of Ezra Pound. (One of my life challenge bucket list items is to read the complete Cantos.) Yes Nial Fergusson is just a puff piece writer. Another disappointment has been Ron Chernow, who’s bios of Washington and Alex. Hamilton completely omit/gloss over the role of indigenous people in what is now called “America.” Chernow’s 738 page book on Hamilton has exactly three (3) sentences on indigenous people. Chernow does, however, detail Washington’s avarice… Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | May 2 2024 14:14 utc | 216
Ha ha ha! So I take it you reject her proposition that there can be both insincere and sincere elements in the mix? And that some of these elements are paid by political agitators like Soros and the Rockefeller Foundation? (Frankly, I just assume that as a given.)
Says it all: to Lavrov’s dog. I was in Santiago Chile in 2019. My impression then and now is/was that what started as a mostly peaceful protest was co-opted by some one/some group to become increasingly violent. Entire cities blocks were burned down. University buildings were burned down. Just about every traffic light in a city of seven million was destroyed, with resulting chaos. The central metro station which was built of reinforced concrete was turned to rubble and did not reopen for years. Carabineros were literally set on fire with Malotov candles. Groups of thugs began to encircle ordinary people in their autos demanding money for passage. Grocery stores were looted until there was no food to be had. It seemed then and seems now that there must have been some outside planning to create so much damage. Yes, very likely there were a few policemen who responded with “excess force” but if you’re trying to protect lives and stop fires and you’ve just seen your partner burned to death, perhaps it is understandable, although not necessarily forgivable. One little detail which comes to mind is that this rioting started on 18 October; the Johns Hopkins “pandemic” conference organized by Gates, ZuckerF, et al was the 19th, and the Russians and Chinese were due in chile in October to sign some mining deals…which got cancelled. As they say “fishiness abounds.” Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | May 2 2024 14:34 utc | 218 re: Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | May 1 2024 23:44 utc | 143 Posted by: ak74 | May 2 2024 14:34 utc | 219 Israel’s National Security Council is raising the level of the travel alert to Malmo, Sweden where The European Song Contest will take place. Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 14:34 utc | 220 Exile @ 215 Posted by: oldhippie | May 2 2024 14:37 utc | 221 PS. I would like to say that one heart warming thing happened, which is that students on their own initiative placed themselves at intersections to direct traffic. Brave and sweet. Remarkably – once the roving groups of thugs disappeared, people showed respect and generosity to this wonderful bunch of volunteers. Go to the good. Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | May 2 2024 14:37 utc | 222 How is that ICC indictment against Netanyahu et Co. coming along? You recall that they were “fearful” of it. I suspect the campus thing is designed to muddy that especially if, indeed, the protests have been infiltrated. Didn’t the US promise to fight it tooth and nail? Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 14:41 utc | 223 Posted by: scorpion | May 2 2024 12:54 utc | 203 Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 14:44 utc | 224 Sewing seeds of division Posted by: ld | May 2 2024 14:45 utc | 225 From the Naomi Wolf piece: Posted by: john | May 2 2024 14:54 utc | 226 Trubind1 | May 2 2024 14:44 utc | 225 Posted by: ld | May 2 2024 14:55 utc | 227 IMO, this anti-war, anti-genocide movement with youth is/was entirely Grassroots and organic. An emotional, ideological social media convergence of commonality that spurred action. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 2 2024 15:03 utc | 228 There **are** elements trying to control the message. Posted by: librul | May 2 2024 15:03 utc | 229 Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | May 2 2024 14:14 utc | 217
Seems fine to me, though the word ‘terrorist’ is questionable (mercenaries more likely). Doesn’t say what Oct 7th was one way or another. What it did was trigger the current blood bath in Gaza (which has had almost no reported additional casualties for three months for some reason). Something similar may be coming America’s way soon, though probably not with whole city blocks being bombed to bits. So I agree with the main thrust of her post, though clearly many here do not. Which of course is perfectly fine.
In this aspect re the recent protests, methinks Naomi has it about right that there are both sincere protestors and paid agitators in the mix. One doesn’t have to agree with everything she says, of course; I never do with any writer. Posted by: john | May 2 2024 14:54 utc | 227 Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 15:10 utc | 231 Just to remind myself, the rich and powerful make money by hedging against failure. Soros and Sunak , Biden and Blair all make money out of insider knowledge, so it’s in their interests to influence events totally irrespective of the morality/ immorality issues. Posted by: Giyane | May 2 2024 15:25 utc | 232 Rothschild made a fortune buying in the panic that followed the Battle of Waterloo against Napoleon. But that’s not the whole story. The original quote is believed to be “Buy when there’s blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own.“ Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 15:40 utc | 233 Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 2 2024 15:03 utc | 229 Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 15:41 utc | 234 233 Posted by: Giyane | May 2 2024 15:48 utc | 235 https://littoria.substack.com/p/americas-foes-discover-its-weakness 235 Trubind1 Posted by: Giyane | May 2 2024 16:02 utc | 237 For anyone interested, it would be helpful to me to have some input to: Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 16:04 utc | 238 Posted by: Menz | May 2 2024 10:05 utc | 188 Posted by: JAB | May 2 2024 16:06 utc | 239 AL-JAZEERA: Dozens of Haredim blocked a main road near Tel Aviv in protest against the law on conscripting them into the army. Posted by: Exile | May 2 2024 16:34 utc | 240 Breaking news: University of Toronto students set up pro-Palestinian encampment protest. Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 16:35 utc | 241 @ librul | May 2 2024 15:03 utc | 230 Posted by: Cabe | May 2 2024 16:51 utc | 242 Turkey will halt all trade relations with Israel. Posted by: NoName | May 2 2024 17:02 utc | 243 Naomi Wolf’s piece reeks of hysteria. Her claim about “outside agitators” in the form of Ms. Nahla Al-Arian (age 63) has been discredited both by The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/may/02/us-college-campus-protests-pro-palestine-ucla-gaza-why-explained
https://apnews.com/article/columbia-protests-eric-adams-outsiders-5319fdf36599295a3840d77c69458b57 Posted by: Gene Poole | May 2 2024 17:12 utc | 244 I was unable to post the above (245) for a long time. Meanwhile I posted the two links to Naomi Wolfe’s Substack and she immediately responded to me, sticking to her guns. You can read our exchanges there. https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/us-campus-chaos-a-new-oct-7-on-the/comments Posted by: Gene Poole | May 2 2024 17:14 utc | 245 221 – The Israeli entry being “Bomb bomb bomb bomb”. Posted by: Waldorf | May 2 2024 17:31 utc | 246 “We are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people and squash dissent,” Biden said, Reuters reported. “But neither are we a lawless country. We’re a civil society. And order must prevail.” Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 17:33 utc | 247 Just a thought: maybe the real infiltration is to spread rumours that the protests have been infiltrated, sowing doubt and discord. Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 17:37 utc | 248 Wonders never cease: Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 2 2024 17:52 utc | 249 Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 2 2024 17:52 utc | 250 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 2 2024 17:54 utc | 250 Just a thought: maybe the real infiltration is to spread rumours that the protests have been infiltrated, sowing doubt and discord. Posted by: Gene Poole | May 2 2024 18:35 utc | 251 Below is a comment from the current Open Thread that fits here as well Posted by: psychohistorian | May 2 2024 18:45 utc | 252 Tom_Q_Collins @ 251
One thing about back channels, no paper trail, no taxes, bribes instead of fees, more profits, what’s to dislike? Of course the state loses the taxes which is a big deal unless the state is owned by its oligarchs and the gangsters, which it is. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 2 2024 18:49 utc | 253 “SPEAK OUT”
Today, the message is clear from the pro-Genocide camp to the protesters that are speaking out: Posted by: librul | May 2 2024 18:51 utc | 254 Re: Turkish blanket trade sanctions on Tel Aviv Posted by: Exile | May 2 2024 18:54 utc | 255 Turkey’s on the verge of bankruptcy, but unless every dime from every criminal is accounted for, it will never be good enough.The hypocrisy, even here, is astonishing Posted by: Turk 152 | May 2 2024 18:54 utc | 256 A report indicating “Hamas” Head-Sinwar, suggestion he would “move” to Jordan. Posted by: JB | May 2 2024 19:11 utc | 257 Someone seems to have disabled reCAPTCHA. Posted by: librul | May 2 2024 19:21 utc | 258 If the President of the US has to mention the protests in his speech, isn’t that a sign the protests are having an impact? Sure, Biden’s position is not as positive as it was with regard to the BLM protests but it could have been more negative were his presidency not on the line in large part due to the war in Gaza. Posted by: Jonathan W | May 2 2024 19:30 utc | 259 RE: Osama Hamdan: Contact with Deif and Sinwar is ongoing Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 19:32 utc | 260 252 – All protests bigger than absolutely tiny ones are likely to have some undercover cops or security service personnel among them. It’s just the reality. I remember 2007, at the G8 protest in Rostock, Germany. An empty police car was parked in an inviting place. Members of the “Black Bloc” started breaking its windows. The police then had their excuse to attack protesters. I am pretty sure the people attacking the car were not free of state links. Either that or they were stupid, or happy to be played. Posted by: Waldorf | May 2 2024 19:34 utc | 261 Criticism of Israel = Antisemitism
It’s all so mind-boggling that so many voted yes to this. Posted by: CrazyTrain | May 2 2024 19:34 utc | 262 Today is 7th months since the start of hostilities with the 2.Oct attack against innocent worshipers at the Al-Aqsa Holy site Posted by: Exile | May 2 2024 19:34 utc | 263 @Posted by: Waldorf | May 2 2024 19:34 utc | 262 Posted by: librul | May 2 2024 19:40 utc | 264 Is this what victory looks like? It might be. A two State solution offers the chance, in future, of federation evolving, by popular accord, into one state, secular and sovereign. Posted by: bevin | May 2 2024 19:48 utc | 265 This obviously has political implications, but honestly, I think it was a very nice and generous thing to do: Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 19:50 utc | 266 Trubind1 | May 2 2024 15:41 utc | 235 Posted by: john | May 2 2024 19:54 utc | 267 “The head of al-Shifa Hospital’s orthopaedic department, Dr Adnan al-Bursh @DrBursh, has been tortured to death by Israel after he was kidnapped from al-Awda hospital end of last year. Posted by: bevin | May 2 2024 19:55 utc | 268 Time for us to put down what ever were doing, and here this. I mean really hear this…. Posted by: Mark2 | May 2 2024 20:02 utc | 269 https://t.me/warfareanalysis/35894?single Posted by: Hankster | May 2 2024 20:02 utc | 270 RE: It’s all so mind-boggling that so many voted yes to this. Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 20:14 utc | 271 bevin 266 Posted by: Giyane | May 2 2024 20:16 utc | 272 So you tell me, is this topical. Posted by: Mark2 | May 2 2024 20:18 utc | 273 “RE:New music? Here’s a young Swiss quartet with a thoughtful soundtrack for these uneasy times…” Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 20:28 utc | 274 A few days after oct 7th someone leaked here that the op name was 40 aleph, which in the kind of cryptology used by these psychopaths means the hebrew letter mim, which in ancient times was used for the number 40. Posted by: Tom | May 2 2024 20:31 utc | 275 Two-state, one state, whatever. Gaza will be condos, beach resorts and LNG platforms by 2040 and no one will remember. Time is empire’s great ally, turning an illegal occupation now into a perfectly respectable nation over the horizon. I know: I’m a beneficiary. Posted by: Patroklos | May 2 2024 20:32 utc | 276 “Israeli aircraft targeted a building south of Damascus believed to contain Iranian advisors” Posted by: Ornot | May 2 2024 20:32 utc | 277 https://thecradle.co/articles/what-comes-first-a-rafah-invasion-or-a-netanyahu-ousting Scorpion 203 Posted by: Jane | May 2 2024 20:48 utc | 279 There are a handful of comments above from posters with a glimmer of realism. Fact is you play the game long enough you will always feel like you are navigating a hall of mirrors. Which is itself debilitating. And still substantially better than being a naive waif. Posted by: oldhippie | May 2 2024 20:51 utc | 280 @john | May 2 2024 19:54 utc | 268
That’s a rather old idea with new music Posted by: Norwegian | May 2 2024 21:07 utc | 283 @ Gene Poole | May 2 2024 17:14 utc | 246 Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 2 2024 21:15 utc | 284 Posted by: oldhippie | May 2 2024 20:51 utc | 281 Posted by: Jane | May 2 2024 20:54 utc | 282 Posted by: Turk 152 | May 2 2024 21:21 utc | 286 Patroklos 273 Posted by: Giyane | May 2 2024 21:24 utc | 287 Scorpion 286 Posted by: Giyane | May 2 2024 21:34 utc | 288 The only available solution after this Israeli genocide is qisas / revenge genocide of Jews in Palestine.. Posted by: JB | May 2 2024 21:43 utc | 289 RE: Posted by: Patroklos | May 2 2024 20:32 utc | 277 Posted by: Trubind1 | May 2 2024 21:52 utc | 290 https://www.youtube.com/live/UMbcN74xG5E?si=nIuHU0KNXIfbZUJ7 Posted by: Hankster | May 2 2024 22:50 utc | 291 Is all this direction to possible netanyahoo arrest (ICC does not have police or army to actually arrest him only issue warrents) to distract from the horrors they continue to commit against Palestinians? I was banned from even looking at Instagram a few days ago all my comments were very mild. Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | May 2 2024 22:54 utc | 292 Thursday, April 25, 2024 Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | May 2 2024 22:56 utc | 293 scorpion | May 2 2024 12:54 utc | 203 Posted by: Rhymerez | May 2 2024 23:06 utc | 294 The reports from NY Post and others that some of the agitators are paid by Soros and other usual suspect NGO’s are also probably true; if so, their purpose is not really about Palestinians but creating waves in the US body politic. Posted by: UWDude | May 2 2024 23:07 utc | 295 JB 290 Posted by: Giyane | May 2 2024 23:28 utc | 296 Trubind1 | May 2 2024 14:44 utc | 225 Posted by: smuks | May 2 2024 23:43 utc | 297 librul | May 2 2024 19:40 utc | 265 Posted by: Archetypex | May 2 2024 23:45 utc | 298 https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4640068-schumer-johnson-netanyahu-invite/ Posted by: Eighthman | May 3 2024 0:15 utc | 299 Saudi steps up arrests of Israel critics amid normalization prospect: Report Posted by: Lydia Gorbik | May 3 2024 0:32 utc | 300 |
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