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Open (Neither Ukraine Nor Palestine) Thread 2024-139
Sorry for not posting. Still a bit busy with health related issues.
Of interest (may be):
Use as open (not related to the wars in Ukraine and Palestine) thread …
Salaam all.
The other day there was a comment regarding an economist’s interesting take on “Jesus the rabbi” and debt forgiveness. Hudson I assume is basing his thoughts on a profane reading of ‘the Lord’s Prayer’. In a (possibly unintended) way it permits an amusing socio-political reading if we take it to its logical conclusion. The rabbi is teaching his disciples to daily pray to their father in heaven to grant them debt forgiveness and also some bread, and this father’s name is to be hallowed and would you know, the entire state is his, kingdom, power, and the glory. So a paternalistic system with a father figure on top who hands out basic income and (periodically and very graciously) forgives us banking debts, and in return doesn’t he deserve our devotion and obedience and praise and submission? And Jesus the rabbi in the process also has sanctified usury and the banking system around it. But hey, at least its our father who gets to print the money and loan it to us at interest.
So, I thought it timely to share an alternative reading of this and two related prayer from Al-Qur’an. It won’t be about banking and sanctified usury and interest and debt jubilees, however I hope everyone can get something out of it, a ~spiritual/metaphysical/psychological although it should be clear that the scope far exceeds such matters. (As a side note to those who do hold certain matters sacred, note that for the sake of general readability certain laudatory and textual notation matter will be omitted – there are there but hidden 🙂
The prayers are the Lord’s Prayer in the Gospels of Jesus(as) and two related prayers from Al-Qur’an delivered to us by Muhammad(saws). The prayer of Sura Al-Falaq (the Cleaving Dawn) and Sura Al-Nass (the Humankind). First let’s recite the prayer with due devotion and reverence.
~!~
The Lord’s Prayer
Our Father which art in Heaven
Hallowed be thy Name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy Will be done here on Earth as it it in Heaven
Give us this Day
our daily Bread
And Forgive us our Debt
as we forgive all indebted to us
And lead us not to trials and temptations
but deliver us from evil
For Yours is
The Kingdom
& the Power
& the Glory
forever and ever!
aa-meen!
~!~
The Lord of the Cleaving Dawn
With Name of Allah ArRahman ArRaheem
Say
I seek Refuge with
the Lord of Cleaving Dawn
from the evil of ITs Creation
and from the evil of darkness that overspreads
and from the evil of those who blow on knots
and from the evil of the envier when it envies
~!~
The Lord of Humankind
With Name of Allah ArRahman ArRaheem
Say
I seek Refuge with
the Lord of Humankind
the King of Humankind
the God of Humankind
from the evil of the slinking whisperer
that whispers in the inner sanctum of Humankind
from among Jinn & Humankind
~!~
These prayers have an obvious apparent meaning in the spiritual sense that is afforded to the common mindset and do not require elaboration. Our goal here is to have a reading, a ‘recitation’, for men and women with understanding and discernment, who are present in this forum graciously provided for our by our dear host, B. All gratitude and praise is always due to God, holy and exalted.
So how to read?
‘Ali (as), the commander of the faithful and wali’Allah, said:
The Heart records what the Eye perceives.
So first there is perception of sensation-form by the image-sensing-mind, which is recorded by the heart, and then naturally an inner reader ‘reads’ from that heart inscribed record. Note that the Imam (as) has concisely and correctly addressed the fact of the mapping of any sensory input to an ultimate ‘inner record’, which is precisely how it is. (Try singing a Psalm ‘by heart’ ..)
So now conceptually, we need an illumination source to shine on the record, an inner light. Just as light illuminates the pages of a book in the physical sense of reading text, the inner light illuminates the heart record. And as any discerning reader knows, our own essence, understanding, and attitude towards the text and/or its author, critically modulates the act of reading and affects our understanding. So there is a record, there is a light, and there is the reader in an orientation towards the entire matter. (To face and bow down to God in reverence & sincere devotion (abd) is the correct inclination.)
We now have a generally applicable mental model of the mechanics of reading by an embodied self. Important to note that this is a universal model that applies to any act of reading by a conscious being, in the most abstract sense, including ‘reading’ reality that we perceive and struggle to comprehend and understand. It should also be clear that what we ‘read’ says as much about who we are as it does about the text.
The Human being, Adam (as) and his children, God guides and protects us all, is a special creature of Allah, we are told in the Book. In a reality that now is even scientifically suspected of being a high dimensional reality with hidden dimensions and abrupt and entirely counter intuitive disconnect between layers of this reality that is both visible to us and our extended cognitive lenses of measuring apparatus and (meta-)mathematical machinery. Intuitively, we have always sensed an ‘extended reality’ beyond the apparent time-space dimensions. This is core to our experience of consciousness.
So we Humans, children of God in Adam, stand bestride two realms, one the apparent externality (‘Zahir’) and an hidden interiority (‘Batin’). The apparent externality is composed of energetic modalities that manifest as particulate matter with extent and mass in metric space, and the ephemeral modality of matter as waves and vortices in harmonic fields. As we know, there is an order and governing laws and associated sciences. The other realm is where we conscious beings truly dwell, in the complete sense of the keenly felt experience of being, to the extent that some even think (falsely imo) that this inner reality and the associated phenomena of self and self-awarness can be encoded, transferred and reified in a mechanical apparatus. This is the hidden realm (batin) of the soul and spirit. And herein too there is an order and governing laws and associated sciences.
Now on to the reading of the prayers. […]
Posted by: sunof27 | May 15 2024 22:23 utc | 38
A bunch of good questions @26:
Not quite sure about the word translated into English as ‘substance’ / substanzen
Also ‘basic opinion’ / grundmeinungen
As in the title: Eine Welt aus Substanzen – viele Welten aus Grundmeinungen.
Is ‘substance’ / ousia something like ‘a particular phenomenon’?
I do not understand ‘basic opinion’ at all. Or is it ‘basic assumptions’?
The term substance here means something different than the substances a drug lab would produce, or make use of as ingredients when cooking stuff. It’s much more difficult. As Sonderegger points out, substantia is actually a latin word that was used to translate a greek word, and this was not successful in historical view. What happened instead is that substantia acquired its own meaning.
From today’s view, the understanding of substance in this sense is as something eternal, primordial, and unchangeable. Derived from this is the so-called metaphysics of substance. The past 1,500 or so years of “western” european philosophy can be read as a coming to terms with this metaphysical assumption: that “the world” is made up of substance.
If you presuppose substance, you’ll end up having to reconcile with the basic factor of awareness that goes into each and all experience; both that of feeling, sensation, intution, imagination, and in experience of thought, deliberation, understanding, theory (in german: Meinung).
This is called the mind/body problem in today’s terms, using a materialist lense. Substance is more or the less the same as matter in this framework. What happens is that the materialist position must, as is well known, deny any role of consnciousness in the proceedings of the substance. So it gets often conveniently swept under the rug with the term epiphenomenon. In the immortal word of the recently deceased Daniel Dennett, ‘I haven’t found it [cosnciousness]. It’s probably not important.’
I’ll skip further discussion of the mind/body problem here, but shall invite everyone over to the philosophers’ corner to debate more on this.
Instead I would like to more towards the ‘first things’, as ousia may be translated somewhat roughly. (Actually, some others here, like Patroklos and juliania, will be able to do that better that I can, and invite them to chime in). The basic thought now is simple:
When you can’t rely with (absolute) certainty on your substance, then you will have to rely onto something else to gain bedrock. These are the Grundmeinungen Sonderegger is speaking about. You may call those assumptions, but that implies already a layer of abstraction on which those assumptions can be stated, perused, affirmed, questioned, negated, denied, etc. In a more socratic sense, these “assumptions” are made unwittingly and may be exposed through skillfull technique in a dialogue. Later, the academy differentiates between doxa and episteme – to give a hint what those mean, I’ll parallelize them with our current discussion on materialism: doxa would be the established conventional wisdom, the old paradigm if you will.
Finally, the notion of ousia as a ‘particular phenomenon’ is quite brilliant in a Husserlian sense. He’d call the accompanying hyposthasis (substance) a Regionalontologie.
Posted by: persiflo | May 15 2024 22:44 utc | 41
بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
The Lord’s Prayer
Our Father which art in Heaven
The prayer begins with an assertion of a collectively shared relationship to a heavenly father. Heaven indicates an otherworldly and exalted realm. It is important to comment on the relational aspect that the Messiah of Isra’EL (as) son of Mary (as) dictated to us. The blessed master (Rabbi) (as) is obviously talking about God and as we know there are many aspects to relationship to the divine/transcendent/IT. Father indicates an immediate causal-generative willful source with mutually due considerations and responsibilities on both father and his children.
In the psychological sense this is a component of the Quaternio of Adam. [Interested reader is referred to Mysterium Coniunictionis – (V) Adam and Eve, C. G. Jung, 1963]. The quaternio, as the name implies, is a complex of the psyche, a pair of relational pairings configured in an orthogonal manner (as in a + cross). This structure is the highest modality of the as-yet unrealized Self, which the displacement of unRealized human-self from the divine-Self engenders as a model of Unity. As God, the only True Being, is One, the displacement gives rise to the structures that are reflected in the human psyche/soul. “Our father” affirms that this ‘father’, that is our ‘view’ of the divine One, is the one and same ‘father’ in every human being. This God the Father that created us, nurtures us, nourishes us, clothes us, shelters us, educates us, and most certainly loves us, very dearly indeed. Concerned with our development as any good father, and our coming to age of spiritual maturity, so that we may “inherit the Earth”. AlhamduliLLAH.
Hallowed be thy Name
As a Muslim saint said, ‘God is knowable through ITs attributes, actions, and names’. My dictionary says hallowed means “holy, sacred, consecrated, sanctified, blessed; revered, venerated, honored, sacrosanct, worshiped, divine, inviolable.” It is the ‘name’ that is to be hallowed (not an image ..)
From the earliest age, mankind instinctively felt the need to find a means of access to higher realms of its fully perceived reality, that is both the apparent externality (zahir) and the hidden reality (batin). To fulfill this need, man used various forms of external reality objects, both naturally occurring and man made, to focus their mental and spiritual energies in devotion and supplication.
Over time, as man came to conceptualize and differentiate different actions and attributes of the divine, these objects took distinct forms reflecting the distinct groupings of one of more attributes with one or more actions. In case of naturally occurring phenomena, such as the sun and the moon and the stars, the attributions were projected, and in case of hand-made idols, they took on distinct forms.
While it is evident (from surviving scripture and practices even in their degenerated forms that remain) that ancient sages and seers understood the phenomena of the veiling of the total reality (i.e. Maya) and that the outward forms were ‘spiritual crutches’ and thus focused on ‘internal images’, for the common man this was not the case. It should be understood that internal images are ideation, for all ideation of mind is a form of imagination. For example, we read in mystic poetry descriptions of the “beloved”, and various other symbolic imagery. It is to be understood that is the sense of such expressions.
External images of the divine, that is “graven image”, gave rise to outright idol-worship, and what was originally intended as a means of access to the divine resulted in the “sin” of the negation of the hidden reality (which is eternal and boundless), and the displacement and delimitation of the divine in the apparent exterior. This then, naturally, resulted in the even greater “sin” of polytheism due to the multiplicity of ‘attribute/action’ (that is Names) groupings. And the alleged gods were believed to entities residing in the apparent externality.
The mission to transform this ‘sinful mentality’ was tasked to Abraham (saws) and the prophets of his extended family (as).
So, having destroyed the idols, Abraham (saws) and the prophets among his seed (as) were inspired with ‘names’, as the highest form of internal image formation (as names resist externalization in graven image form), and insisted on the fact that God is One and HIS names are many. Many such divine names have been given to God’s elect for our benefit. Remembrance (zikr) and reverent meditation or simply calling on names as psycho-semantic vectors to the Self, is the meaning of the command by Jesus to “hallow” the name of God.
Thy Kingdom come
This is the kingdom of God that the Messiah (as) informed us is in each and everyone of us. The king “established on ITs throne” in Qur’anic terms. Here the blessed ‘Rabbi’ (as) was teaching us a means of reminding ourselves, daily, that the True Reality is within. So, here, what we are asking God in this prayer is nothing short of Self-realization and God-Centered-Consciousness. This is not an earthly kingdom. It is a ‘heavenly’ kingdom. We are praying for the ultimate in higher consciousness. The Muslim reader is referred to certain Hadith Qudsi regarding the heart of HIS Slave and what it can contain.
Thy will be done here on Earth as it is in Heaven
Earth here denotes the ‘dust of Adam’. Adam, as asserted, is a creature, a being, that has a multi-dimensional reality. Our current state is that of ‘fallen’, that is we are imprisoned in the lowest dimensions, that is the time-space 4d. This ‘sub-set’ of our total reality and being is pseudo-holographic. That is, it has a ‘heaven’ (that is space and its galaxies and stars, etc.) and an earth. As should be clear, this ‘incompleteness’ of awareness of ordinary consciousness results in a bifurcation between ‘matter’ and ‘space’, while we know of course that lower scale (quantum) substrate is distinct from the apparent (emergent) world we experience. So, “on Earth” not only means things such as ‘true belief moving mountains with words’ as indicated by Jesus (as) in the Gospels, but also a state of total Islam of creature to the will of God, and thought, speech and action fully in accord with the divine Will.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-Chapter-17/
Give us this day our daily bread
As creatures we require sources of nourishment. Given that we are spiritual beings, the nourishment we require also needs to be spiritual. Bread, in the language of the Bible, definitively means word of God. When the Word of God (as) tells us to take of his flesh and blood as bread and wine, He (as) is referring to the body and spirit of the Divine Word, that is scripture. Here, bread has a wider scope, since we are asking “God the Father in Heaven” directly for bread. So this is heavenly bread, sent down from father. That is ‘thought’. The ‘body of thought’ forms by divine inspiration and then we feed on the inspired thought, by reflecting and digesting to raise our awareness and feed our soul. (For the blessed and fortunate Muslim reader, the Names to be “hallowed” include Al-Razzaq and Al-Muqit, with the latter having a more spiritual aspect. Our learned brother Al-Ghazali (ra) has written a book on the matter of Names of Allah. It is recommended.)
In the Gita, Lord Krishna informs His devotee Arjuna regarding the 3 mental states (gunas), each progressively more refined and higher, corresponding to types. Each such state of mentality and spiritual state of being has its own characteristic food. While (symbolic) types of food are enumerated in the Gita, it should be understood that the scope is wider as indicated with ‘daily bread’. For example, food of the Tamistic (degraded lower self) is indicated as “stale food”, “leftovers”, “rotten”, “food made for others”. The domineering Rajistic relishes “hot, spicy” food, etc. The Sattvic state reaches for and delights in “pure, wholesome, fresh, nourishing” food, etc.
The correct understanding is to recognize that, for example, eating stale food is feeding on regrets, sorrows, and being ‘stuck in the past’. Left over food is regressive mindset thoughtlessly clinging to outdated forms, rituals and norms. ‘Food prepared for others’ is generational psychological garbage that is passed from parents to their children. “Sins of the fathers” ..
You should be able to extrapolate here to what is ‘fit food’ for one aspiring for the closest proximity to Father in Heaven.
And forgive us our debt as we forgive all indebted to us
The Self is the Fully Aware (Al-Aalim) and fully informed (Al-Khabir) and the Reckonner (Al-Hasib). God knows everything, sees everything, and there is no hiding 🙂 Let’s just put it that way. Yes, God, the Mild (Al-Halim) and Subtle (Al-Latif), did play ‘peek-a-boo’ in the Garden with Adam and Eve. Haven’t you every played that with a child? .
We too keep account, and ‘reckon’ the debts various people, & sometimes plaintively including the Merciful and Gracious God Himself. But we are not accurate in our record keeping, and naturally are not all-aware and fully-informed and more to the point, we’re stuck down here, in a degraded mental and spiritual state. Many of the perceived debts we hold on to are not even valid! Now “laws” were mentioned in regards to the hidden reality, and this here is pointing us to a fundamental (and wonderful) Spiritual Law. Our debts are forgiven as we fully clean accounts of those indebted to us. It is also a somewhat karmic law in the sense that our own sense of Self-forgiveness and Self-reconciliation which achieved give rise to the elevation of our spiritual being by God’s grace, can only be attained when we fully clear the book of grievances that we maintain. Forgive all. “Be reconciled with your brother”.
There is an similitude/analogy of this phenomena in the apparent externality. e=m*c^2. Now the ‘spiritual energy’ that is released here when ‘mass’ (debt!) reaches ‘the speed of Light’ is Love Energy. The energy bottled up in ‘unpaid debt’ is tremendous. And you will get this Love energy from the Source, the effacer of sins (Ar-Ra’ouf) the Merciful the All-Forgiving (Al-Ghafur).
And lead us not into trials and temptations but deliver us from evil
As mentioned in the previous comment, the three prayers we are reading are related. “Trials” here are the matter discussed in Sura Al-Falaq (the Lord of Cleaving Dawn), and “temptations” are the matter addressed in Sura Al-Naas (the Lord of Humankind). Here it suffices to make note of a peculiar matter. “Lead us not”, dear father. Why would father do this? What does it all mean. This matter will be considered when we continue the reading to these two Suras of the Glorious Al-Qur’an, the Book that makes things Clear.
The diligently-aware-and-careful-of-the-LORD-mentality (aka “fear of the LORD”) is the beginning of Wisdom. [Proverbs 9.10]
For thine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory, forever and ever!
The Realized human is a powerful being, created in the image of God ITself by ITself. Since the kingdom is in you, then realize that it and you are “forever and ever”!
And God said
Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness
And let them have dominion
over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air, and over cattle,
and over all ‘Earth’ [as discussed]
and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the Earth
[Genesis 1.26-27]
InshAllah, we will continue our reading with the prayers to the Lord in the Al-Qur’an. [tbc]
Posted by: sunof27 | May 16 2024 1:37 utc | 53
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