U.S. Has Claimed Duty To Warn But Did Not Do It
U.S. intelligence sources have, at times, fed bullshit to Seymour Hersh:
DUTY TO WARN Seymour Hersh, Mar 27 2024 (emphasis added)
This American intelligence community passed a warning of a possible attack involving religious extremists from Pakistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan eighteen days in advance of the Moscow concert hall assault that killed at least 137 people and injured more than one hundred. Such a warning invariably comes from intercepts from the National Security Agency and agent reports from the Central Intelligence Agency.The Americans did their job but the Russian intelligence community, heeding its boss, did not. President Vladimir Putin publicly called the warning “provocative statements” three days before the attack, and the Russian security services ignored it. They bear responsibility, in the view of American intelligence experts, for failing to do what was necessary to protect the concertgoers.
According to the above President Putin of Russia is responsible for ignoring the warning of a terror attack the U.S. gave to Russia.
Similar bullshit was fed to Shane Harris of the Washington Post:
U.S. told Russia that Crocus City Hall was possible target of attack Washington Post, Apr 2 2024
More than two weeks before terrorists staged a bloody attack in the suburbs of Moscow, the U.S. government told Russian officials that Crocus City Hall, a popular concert venue, was a potential target, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.
...
The Russian leader himself publicly dismissed U.S. warnings just three days before the March 22 attack, calling them “outright blackmail” and attempts to “intimidate and destabilize our society.”
It is again Putin who is to blame.
However the above claims are nonsensical. As Shane Harris writes further down in his piece:
But the information that pointed to an attack on the concert hall also pointed at a potential danger for Americans in Russia. On March 7, the U.S. Embassy publicly announced that it was “monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, to include concerts,” and advised U.S. citizens “to avoid large gatherings over the next 48 hours.”The United States shared its information with Russia the day before that public warning, according to people familiar with the matter. Naryshkin said “U.S. intelligence agencies” gave the information to the FSB, Russia’s state security service.
The public warning was given on March 8. It was explicitly time limited:
People have been told to avoid concerts in the next 48 hours amid potential ‘extremist attacks’.The US Embassy in Moscow urged its citizens against attending large gatherings in the Russian capital.
...
‘The embassy is monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, including concerts, and US citizens should be advised to avoid large gatherings over the next 48 hours,’ it read.Britain’s Foreign Office echoed the US alert, sharing it on the Travel Advice page for the country.
The warning said that the danger was during the next 48 hours, not during the days that followed those.
Putin dismissed the warning on March 19, nine days after it had exceeded its time horizon. The attack on the Crocus hall happened on March 22. There had been no new warning issued for that or any other day.
Former CIA agent Larry Johnson, who has personal experience with such warnings, is thus correct when he writes:
During the last 35 years I do not recall a single instance in which the State Department issued a warning like this specifying a specific time period for vigilance. The warning itself implies intelligence that provided a specific timeframe for the attack. So, when the attack does not happen, you need to go back to the analysts and ask, WTF!!! If the analysts had said, “Oh, wait, the Russians boosted security at the Crocus City Hall on 8 March and scared off the attack,” then the next question should have been, “Do you still believe there will be another attempt?” The analysts could have said yes, no or maybe.So, if you believe the intelligence is credible then it was incumbent on the USG to issue another warning to continue to avoid large gatherings, such as concert halls. The USG did not do that.
Nope. The USG is pushing the line that “We warned the Russians and they did not act.” Sure looks like a psy-op to me designed to paint Putin as a heartless goon who ignored our intelligence.
And that is exactly what it is.
The attack itself was done by hired killers, not by devoted Muslims willing to die for their believe. It is thus hard to swallow the claim that the real Khorosan branch of the Islamic State is responsible for it. That branch by the way has always been known to be a CIA operation.
Arnaud Bertrand @RnaudBertrand - 9:03 UTC · Apr 2, 2024This is really worth sharing: a top Chinese international relations scholar (Ma Xiaolin, director of the Institute for Mediterranean Studies at Zhejiang International Studies University) shares his view on why ISIS is now targeting geopolitical enemies of the West.
I translated his article in full - original in Chinese here: https://tidenews.com.cn/news.html?id=2754250
From Bertrand's translation:
Before the end of 2017, the Islamic State was essentially defeated as a territorial entity, suffering a fatal blow and being forced to disband and go underground, with its focus shifting from West Asia to Central Asia. The Khorasan branch, active in Afghanistan and Pakistan, became the main force, taking up the banner of terrorism and frequently acting, gradually adjusting its survival rules and strategic direction.Over the years, there have been signs that the Islamic State's targets for revenge have clearly shifted to Eastern countries, no longer viewing the US and Europe as primary enemies, and completely deviating from its original goals of ending US global dominance and "liberating Palestine".
...
Despite the US indirectly or directly warning Iran and Russia of Islamic State attacks, suspicions remain.
...
On November 15, 2017, the Russian Ministry of Defense publicly condemned the US military for sheltering retreating Islamic State militants; the Russian Foreign Ministry also stated that US forces in Syria had more than once allowed terrorists to escape. Consequently, Russia became the primary target for Islamic State reprisals and attacks. In December of the same year, the group attacked a supermarket in Saint Petersburg, injuring 18 people.Russian media revealed that since 2018, the US and other Western allies have repeatedly airlifted Islamic State leaders and key members out of eastern Syria, their whereabouts unknown. In January 2019, the Russian Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs stated that unidentified helicopters were transporting large numbers of Islamic State militants from eastern Syria to the border area between Tajikistan and Russia, preparing to provoke Russia.
Moreover, on September 2, 2022, just before the 22nd anniversary of the "9/11" attacks, ISKP did not commemorate its predecessors' landmark attack on the US homeland; instead, it targeted China for the first time in its publication "The Voice of Khorasan". Three days later, the group launched a suicide attack on the Russian embassy in Afghanistan, killing two Russian diplomats.
Clearly, ISKP has become the core force of the Islamic State, with its stance representing the new core and top-level position of the Islamic State. The struggling Islamic State is openly changing its stance to show goodwill towards the US and Europe and hostility towards China, Russia, and Iran, hoping to benefit from the confrontation between major powers.
The Russian and Chinese suspicion that IS-K has been formed or is used as a tool of U.S. intelligence service is well founded.
Three years ago, based on reports from the Afghan Analyst Network and other sources, I found that IS-K and the CIA had strong relations:
How The CIA Used ISIS-K To Keep Its Afghanistan Business - Moon of Alabama, Aug 29 2021
Over the years several reports by the Afghan Analyst Network (AAN) about the Islamic State in Khorasan Province (ISKP or ISIS-K) show that it had grown out of militant groups from Pakistan. A report from 2016 describes extensively how they were fostered by the Afghan state:...The Afghan state's NDS was a CIA proxy agency. During the mid 1990s the intelligence chief of the Northern Alliance, Amrullah Saleh, had been trained by the CIA in the United States. After the U.S. overthrew the Taliban government Saleh became the head of the NDS. The NDS also had extensive relations with India's secret service.
While the U.S. pretended to fight the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) consistent reports from various sides alleged that core ISIS personnel were extracted by unmarked U.S. helicopters from Iraq and Syria and transferred to Nangarhar where they reinforced the ISKP militants.
Hadi Nasrallah @HadiNasrallah - 1:18 UTC · Aug 28, 2021In 2017 and 2020, Syria’s SANA reported that that US helicopters transported between 40 and 75 ISIS militants from Hasakah, North Syria to an “unknown area”. The same thing was reported for years in Iraq by the PMU along with reports that US helicopters dropped aid for ISIS.
As Alex Rubinstein summarizes:
The list of governments, former government officials, and organizations in the region that have accused the US of supporting ISIS-K is expansive and includes the Russian government, the Iranian government, Syrian government media, Hezbollah, an Iraqi state-sponsored military outfit and even former Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who called the group a “tool” of the United States ...Like in Iraq and Syria the CIA's fostering of ultra-militant Islamists led to a backlash as the militants increasingly attacked the Afghan state. The U.S. military finally found it necessary to intervene against them. But the fighting against them on the ground was mostly done by the Taliban who for that purpose received direct support from the U.S. air force.
The concert hall attack in Russia was attributed to IS-K because the IS-affiliated Amaq News Agency had published videos by the murderers who were from Tajikistan. But the fact that someone knew whereto submit such videos does not prove a strong connection between those entities.
It seems IS-K, like certain journalists, is just a tool used by U.S. intelligence services to further their information and terror operations while blaming U.S. 'enemies', here Putin, for the results.
But what is really disturbing is that people fall for it.
Posted by b on April 3, 2024 at 11:49 UTC | Permalink
NATO has always been a terrorist organization that conducts terror attacks against its own citizens and citizens of non-NATO countries. For example in 1980 in Bologna NATO murdered 85 civilians in a terrorist attack against a train station.
"Operation Gladio"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA
Posted by: p3t3r | Apr 3 2024 12:00 utc | 2
If the Anglos think they will defeat the mighty Russians, I have a bridge to sell them... They will need to pick it up at the bottom of the Baltimore bay.
Posted by: Asian Frog | Apr 3 2024 12:01 utc | 3
In the context of all this, how can one tell if a Muslim charity that is delivering aid to Syria or Gaza is not delivering aid to USUKIS controlled militants and families.
All this dishonesty undermines the even the basic instincts of human support for other humans. USUKIS Politics is a cancer, eating humanity from the inside.
Posted by: Giyane | Apr 3 2024 12:05 utc | 4
US did not warn about anything. The US embassy merely issued an advisory telling its citizens to stay away from any concerts for the next 48 hours.
Clearly they had a hint that some concert within the next 48 hours was planned to be hit by Ukraine's intelligence service, and supposedly the Shaman concert was being staked out and planned to be hit, but was called off after they spotted heavy security in the concert. Whether they knew exactly which concert is a question, but it is a pretty specific warning.
So the US embassy warning came and went, and there was no other warning when Crocus hall was hit.
Posted by: unimperator | Apr 3 2024 12:08 utc | 5
"But what is really disturbing is that people fall for it..."
Posted by b on April 3, 2024 at 11:49 UTC
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of those people are stupider than that."
George Carlin
Thanks for the report, b. As usual, the Outlaw US Empire employs its Terrorist Foreign Legion to advance its geopolitical aims, a practice that goes way back to those called "Filibusters" in Central America and Cuba in the 1850s. Indeed, well before it began being used in Eurasia, the Legion was utilized in almost all of Latin America, although the alliance with NAZIs and OUN as WW2 came to an end shares that timeframe.
As b reveals again, more than enough evidence exists to gain a guilty verdict against the Outlaw US Empire as the #1 state-sponsor of terrorism right behind its Zionist and Nazi allies. The multilateral organizations formed by Russia and China all have a core anti-terrorism focus that IMO needs to be honed-in on the "mother nation" from where the various Legion entities are spawned. And there's only one real way to do that which is to cut off all contacts with the Empire and its vassals so it becomes incapable of infiltrating its Terrorist troops as easily as it now does.
It's obvious the Crocus attack was done with the approval/knowledge of the CIA, if not outright planned by them. The attackers-terrorists said they were recruited on Telegram with 500.000 roubles paid to them before the attack and another 500.000 promised after.
Posted by: spectre | Apr 3 2024 12:34 utc | 8
I don’t know. If someone had warned the US that AQ was going to highjack planes and fly them into NYC skyscrapers on August 24 or 25, 2001, I would have considered that forewarning. And if I were in on a terror attack, I would not tip off the target with so many details, even if the time frame was slightly off.
I think it is more likely that a rogue Ukraine was behind the attack, US learned of it by spying on Kiev, and honestly wanted to stop it for going too far and harming the US objectives. As Ukraine starts to circle the drain, they will become increasingly dangerous as their only hope of staving off defeat is to spark WWIII.
Posted by: tommylotto | Apr 3 2024 12:37 utc | 9
A recent piece by Berletic has lots of solid information on US using terrorist groups for their agenda: https://odysee.com/@LandDestroyer:8/terror-attack-on-moscow-why-the-us:0
Much of it it assumed by everyone here, but Berletic always uses official documents or western media to prove his claims, which makes his pieces so valuable as the information can't be dismissed as disinformation.
His newest piece adds on top of that: https://odysee.com/@LandDestroyer:8/terrorists-target-china-pakistan:c
Posted by: Hamburger | Apr 3 2024 12:40 utc | 10
Escobar cites the following by Patrushev on his Telegram:
"We must take into account that this and other terrorist organizations were created by the United States."
Who within the Outlaw US Empire will pay the price and when it will be exacted is a question shared by Iran regarding the Zionists.
Can USA prove that they warned Russia?
Can Russia prove that they were not warned by USA?
I do not trust the West, but also I do not trust Russia.
Posted by: vargas | Apr 3 2024 12:53 utc | 12
One hand does not necessarily know what the other is doing. The embassy warning was what it was. The US intelligence community is vast and riven by factions. And thoroughly out of control.
Seymour Hersh hs long been an intelligence messenger. Consider Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Scott Ritter, Doug MacGregor as exctly the same. These people are allowed to know certain things and directed to share them. No one, not William Burns, certainly not Jake Sullivan, not "Joe Biden" knows everything that goes on when intelligence hatches schemes.
Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 3 2024 12:55 utc | 13
https://rumble.com/v4ivpkf-scott-ritter-show-ep.-65.html
Interview with a RF ex-FSB employee (40 years). I do not have a timestamp to when - if there is a time stamp about a FSB team going to US to talk about Tsaernev brothers in Boston or if it is discussed in that show. But Scott Ritter states that he and Mikhail Kozhemyakin have talked about the difference in the level of contact and scrubbed intel given of the pre-Boston massacre and the Crocus massacre.
Posted by: paxmark1 | Apr 3 2024 12:55 utc | 14
"I would like to recall the acts of sabotage against the Nord Stream and Nord Stream-2 gas pipelines in September 2022. Western media and officials at that time were speculating at length the explosions had been organized allegedly by some Ukrainians, who had approached the gas pipelines on a yacht. This disinformation was sold to the incompetent Western public," Patrushev said at the 19th annual meeting of secretaries of security councils of SCO member states in Astana.
"It is a hard fact that only special squads can carry out such an operation. As is known, the United States and Britain have such personnel at their disposal," Patrushev said.
Kiev is turning to attacking targets inside Russia as it becomes clear that victory on the battlefield is out of reach, Vadim Skibitsky, deputy head of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR), told the Guardian.
Posted by: AI | Apr 3 2024 13:05 utc | 15
Recall the USG’s response to warnings from its own IC that an impending terror attack were “blinking red” in late Summer of 2001
Posted by: Doc Hollywood | Apr 3 2024 13:14 utc | 16
It should be noted US often gives spurious "terror" warnings to cause capital flight, tourist flight, economic destabilization of the target country.
Posted by: Browser | Apr 3 2024 13:22 utc | 17
Seymour Hersh is likely an unwitting tool of the deep state. At best, limited hangout. At worst, deceptive disinformation.
Posted by: Mary | Apr 3 2024 13:22 utc | 18
And don’t forget the Uighers!
The head choppers in Syria.
The ones who went to Libya.
Now many in Central Asia.
The Indian and Pakistani secret services have never really risen out of their Raj mentality.
They could squish all of them like slugs but are totally in the pocket of the western masters with homes and apartments in NewYork, California and Florida and access to European elites through education of their pampered children.
Hersh has Ben a limited hangout merchant as became clear to me last year over NS2. The shade he cast on US specialists , the strange tale of the Poseidon plane , mr Applebaum - Sikorsky widely published tweet thanking the US to cover for the dumbest dimbo Liz Effing Truss as stupid as Bozo the clown and the Bullingdon , Brittannia Unchained loons, sending an open WhatsApp orgasmic ‘it’s done’ to her masters within minutes of the explosions!
Nord Stream was a Royal Navy Operation- it’s in our backyard. The revelation of which a few months ago was immediately censored. The US movements of ships were just cover. As was the dumb Limited hangout of Sy the CIA story man.
It is most likely the attacks by ‘islamists’ on Russians is exactly the same - an operation of the U.K.’s aristo Greenmantle’s who know no life except generations of their Great Game - the toads who like to call themselves by their Norman Conquerer pronounciations instead of the actual English spelling of their names such as Bouquet instead of Bucket,;
Singen; & Sinclair instead of St Jean and St Clair ;
Pol instead of Powell.
That last one and the French BHLevy and co especially are undoubtedly the aristos who have been at the centre of all the EurAsian attackers. The ancient servants of the Khazarian Money. The once and always Terrorists upon humanity.
Posted by: Dungroanin | Apr 3 2024 13:24 utc | 19
Hersh's contacts are all CIA, DSA, etc. so he is used to filter stuff out as "scoops" whenever there is internal conflicts being hashed out in the intelligence community.
Posted by: Teddy Salad | Apr 3 2024 13:31 utc | 20
"But what is really disturbing is that people fall for it."
True.
Whilst you're at it however, one can only chuckle at certain posters here over the past decade here or so at the Bar who have been wrong with soo many of their predictions below the line...and are increasingly hostile toward anyone having a different opinion to them on whatever geopolitical matters you write above the line.
I don't need to say their names, you know who they are too lol
Interesting article as always- thank you for your tireless work.
Let's see what happens next...
Posted by: Skeletor | Apr 3 2024 13:36 utc | 21
old hippie@13 seems to me to be right.
His view is shared by Andrew Korybko:
".. The deep internal divisions over Gaza and now seemingly Crocus as well have the potential to shift the internal policymaking balance between them and also influence voters’ perceptions ahead of November.
"If the comparatively more irresponsible deep state faction represented by WaPo’s sources is able to maintain dominance over the official narrative on this issue, then on-the-fence voters in the upcoming neck-and-neck election might think that Russia was the irresponsible one, not the Biden Administration. Those that learn the truth about the Biden Administration’s involvement in terrorist attacks on Russian soil, however, might then vote for third parties or support Trump in order to avert World War III..."
Korybko believes that the Russian Investigative Committee working on the Crocus Hall and other terrorist attacks is going to produce a report so sensational in its revelations that it will break down the Mainstream media 'firewall' insulating the public from understanding what their own government is doing.
Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2024 13:37 utc | 22
US Warned Iran of ISIS-K Threat Ahead of Deadly Blasts, US Official Says
https://www.voanews.com/a/us-warned-iran-of-isis-k-threat-ahead-of-deadly-blasts-us-official-says/7457546.html
US had warned Russia ISIS was determined to attack
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/23/europe/us-had-warned-russia-isis-was-determined-to-attack-intl-hnk/index.html
Yes, US WARNED like Mafia boss.
"I know I know. Something wrong would happen to you..."
Posted by: Nokaz | Apr 3 2024 13:37 utc | 23
actually the entire West if such an entity exists (it doesnt) is suffering from a deep spiritual malaise
and Israel is the best example (call it the centrepiece...it does remind oneself of entire porn industry, just think of Playboy magazine etc) of all this malaise.
and the media (ie TV, and print media (for those of us who can read) is its primary outlet to the rest of us humans
even a cat or dog, actually a cat is the better example, could see through all this
the problem is one of a loss of faith in whatever one had in the first place, obviously lacking in the first place.
there is probably numerous references to this malaise throughout the Bible somewhere, if one could look, suggest reading pages alpha to omega.
apologies for my diatribe.
Posted by: chris m | Apr 3 2024 13:56 utc | 24
follow up to my last comment no24
the only thing wrong with cats is that they could do with a moral compass, as dogs seem to do
Posted by: chris m | Apr 3 2024 14:00 utc | 25
This is also about factions / rifts, though in this case the Jewish ones both in Israel and the US. A quick review of E. Michael Jone's powerful review of Todd's The Defeat of the West in Unz. This could go in the Ukraine, Palestine or Week in Review, but it fits this thread's conversation about factions too. Which is important because so often we talk about single entities, like UK, US, CIA etc. when in fact sometimes it is quite small, silo'd elements therein whose work isn't known about until after it becomes public knowledge when X is blown up or Y war gets underway.
(2) Review of E. Michael Jones' review of Todd's book The Defeat of the Westby Peter Gerard Myers, November 30, 2024
Jones' message is that WASP America was Satanic, and that it's been replaced by Jewish ('Neocon') America, which is also Satanic.
So what's the difference?
WASP America was Protestant; but 'Neocon' America (actually run by Jews) is Nihilist.
??? Questions remain
Consider this paragraph, and note the difference between Todd and Jones:
Todd ... claims that a “satanic ritual” ... served as the demarcation point between the era of the WASP elite and the moment when it was succeeded by the Synagogue of Satan as America's ruling class. Blinded by the superficial categories he has appropriated from Max Weber, Todd fails to see not only that the hidden grammar of Protestantism is Satanic, but also, and more importantly, that America became the Great Satan when the Jews took over its culture.
Todd says that WASP America was Christian, but that Jewish America is Satanic. Jones says that BOTH were Satanic, but that Jewish America is MORE Satanic ('the Great Satan').It's confusing; and Jones thus dilutes Todd's message.
Here's an answer:
Those Jews who act collectively are split into two groups: Globalists (75%) and Zionists (25%). The Globalists vote Democrat, and the Zionists vote Republican. The Globalists are those that Todd calls 'Neocon', 'nihilist' and Satanic.
Protestants self-identify as the 'True Jews', are pro-Zionist, and vote Republican. Their image of Jews is derived from the Old Testament, but that's out of step with the reality of 'nihilist' Jews of today. It's those 'nihilist' Jews who have killed off WASP America.
The Globalists launched the Ukraine war; the Zionists launched the Gaza war. But the Gaza war threatens the Globalist project, by (1) isolating the West (2) pushing the Arab countries into China's arms.
The Globalists want an Israel at peace with its neighbours, so that the Arab countries will join the India-MidEast-Europe Corridor instead of China's Belt and Road. That's why they've come down against Netanyahu.
Virginia Nuland quit because those at the top finally realized that China was a greater threat than Russia; that the Ukraine War was benefiting China, and that it had driven Russia into China's arms.
The full Myers letter available: https://sitrepworld.info/peter-myers-digest-emmanuel-todds-book-the-defeat-of-the-west/ It’s a dense, important essay IMO.
Am not convinced by Myers split description. Seems to me that the Middle East has largely both started to come together as one along with joining BRICS+ AND the Zionists know it - probably better than anyone else. The Gaza operation may be a last ditch effort to make war with Iran finally happen (led by the US of course, mainly in the form of aerial bombardment from afar which I suspect is the only war America can deliver apart from narrowly targeted Special Ops) or it may be a last ditch effort to finally get rid of the Palestinians before American influence wanes and they have to craft a different deal with a differently aligned Middle East but now without the constant irritant of their poor relations with the Palestinians in the mix.
But that there is a difference between globalist and Zionist Jewish power networks has been clear for some time, though rarely if ever mentioned in most news coverage which hides their role in the US and West.
It's all just part of the total war, this being the media war part.
The US is SO nice, they brag they warn those they otherwise demonize, bomb, sanction, rob and systematically strive to destroy and subjugate by every means at their disposal.
Posted by: JB | Apr 3 2024 14:19 utc | 27
Nuland knew nothing new
Larry Johnson and others are accusing the US not giving a new warning after the original March 9th attack failed to happen. The US knew the exact time and place of the original attack. They now claim to have passed this information to the Russians. The added security or the warning itself deterred the original attack. There is no reason to believe that the US received any new information after that. (At least not of the kind they could comfortably share.)
It was possible to infer that the attack might be tried again at a later date. But the Russians were just as capable of doing this inference as the Americans. What was there for the Americans to tell the Russians they did not already know?
***
The interesting information in the articles is about the timeline. The public warning was posted on the embassy website late on Thursday March 7th.
- Seymour Hersh says the private warning was given to Russians on March 4th.
- Victoria Neland resigned on March 5th.
- Washington Post says the private warning was given to Russians on March 6th.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Apr 3 2024 14:24 utc | 28
CIA has had absolute and total impunity since 1947. Even "rogue" operations proceed with utter impunity. If CIA wants to sell cocaine in US it is just not a problem. A little off the books cash for even more rogue operation is not a problem. When anything goes is standard operating procedure for generations you will breed idiots. They will do things only idiots do.
Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 3 2024 14:28 utc | 29
Watch out for the US evangelists, seriously dangerous entities. They want to kill us 'all'
Posted by: AI | Apr 3 2024 14:37 utc | 30
The original attack was planned to disrupt the Russian elections, and was to take place at the Crocus Hall during the Shaman concert. By all accounts, the security was very, very heavy that night. The speculation is that it dissuaded the terrorists, one of whom was photographed before that night at the hall. Obviously, the Russians did take the warning seriously. But no one said anyone about a terror attack after the election, when it would seem to be moot. Except that, of course, the US immediately said that this attack, which showed Putin's impotence, would surely lead to regime change. Because that's how they "think".
The Mighty Wurlitzer dropped the meaning of the acronym of ISIS when they moved them out to attack other enemies of the US. When "ISIS", Islamic State for IRAQ and SYRIA, showed up in the Philippines, when Duarte displeased the US, i wondered how anyone could fall for it. And yet......
I remember early in the Trump presidency, when he warned Russia about an "ISIS" plot to blow up a Russian plane.
The Mighty Wurlitzer went wild with rage, and the entire Establishment denounced Trump and called him a "traitor", for saving the lives of Russian civilians.
Obama The Great certainly didn't do that in October 2015, shortly after Russia came to the rescue of Syria, and the response was to blow up a civilian plane, killing 224 Russians, including children.
Why couldn't Trump be more like Obama?
According to the Blob, "protecting sources" was far more important than saving lives. Yes, that is what they said.
But now we are told by the same sources that the US gave a warning to Russia about the "ISIS" attack in Moscow, and the Russians ignored it, because "Putin Evil" (like Trump, his co-conspirator, doncha know.)
I call bullshit.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 3 2024 14:47 utc | 31
"U.S. intelligence sources have, at times, fed bullshit to Seymour Hersh:"
- b
=======
And Hersh always willingly spoon feeds it to his audience of fools, who equally willingly lap it up, despite Hersh's sources being utterly opaque.
Hersh's "reputation" amongst gullible Boomers rests solely on his being a willingly conduit for CIA's Bill Colby's blackops briefings against CIA's James Jesus Angelton.
Hersh's scribblings are the textbook definition of "Limited Hangouts"
And dumb Boomers fall for it over and over again, ad infinitum.
Hersh always changes the real story slightly, adding previously unknown "facts" or "revelations" into the mix, ones fed to him by his Intel agency controllers/"sources".
This served to give his MSM critics something to disprove so that at the end of the day they can claim to have discredited or "debunked" any and all alternative narratives of events, outside the narrative rolled out by the MSM. In reality they focus only on Hersh's often dubious reports and ignore better sourced narratives and analysis.
That's his real role, and its one he does well. Working for the intelligence services by mudding the waters, as a purveyor of limited hangouts, often all to easily debunked and dismissed, has served him well over the decades.
Posted by: HershSmersh | Apr 3 2024 14:50 utc | 32
Hersh's job is to often get things slightly wrong, so that his reporting of events becomes the story, rather than the events themselves.
Posted by: HershSmersh | Apr 3 2024 14:54 utc | 33
Western intel agencies ability to predict terror attacks is analogous to an arsonists capability to predict the next fire.
Posted by: Fred777 | Apr 3 2024 14:54 utc | 34
The Russian Prosecutor General's Office (PGO) has sent formal inquiries and information requests from a group of State Duma lawmakers to the United States, Germany, France and Cyprus concerning the organization of terrorist attacks against Russia by the United States and other Western countries. In taking this step, the PGO considered inquiries and appeals made by Duma members Andrey Krasov, Nikolay Kharitonov and Yana Lantratova, as well as public figures Alexander Dugin and Andrey Derkach for investigating the potential involvement of persons and organizations located abroad in the plotting and financing of a number of terrorist acts committed inside Russia, as well as the underwater explosions that destroyed the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines in Danish territorial waters in the Baltic Sea in September 2022.
Posted by: AI | Apr 3 2024 15:01 utc | 35
Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 3 2024 14:47 utc
"More like Obama"? Heaven forbid.
Posted by: juliania | Apr 3 2024 15:03 utc | 36
"US did not warn about anything. The US embassy merely issued an advisory telling its citizens to stay away from any concerts for the next 48 hours.
Clearly they had a hint that some concert within the next 48 hours was planned to be hit by Ukraine's intelligence service, and supposedly the Shaman concert was being staked out and planned to be hit, but was called off after they spotted heavy security in the concert. Whether they knew exactly which concert is a question, but it is a pretty specific warning.
So the US embassy warning came and went, and there was no other warning when Crocus hall was hit."
Posted by: unimperator | Apr 3 2024 12:08 utc | 5
Exactly. Much better than the original post.
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Apr 3 2024 15:21 utc | 37
good work b.. thank you...
some good insights from others too...
@ tommylotto | Apr 3 2024 12:37 utc | 9
i tend to see it as you here.. thanks..
@ wagelaborer | Apr 3 2024 14:47 utc | 31
yes... call bullshit! that is what b is doing and most others here on this thread too.. fortunately we don't have any folks who swallow this propaganda fodder gracing the corridors of moa!!
Posted by: james | Apr 3 2024 15:22 utc | 38
@oldhippie | Apr 3 2024 12:55 utc | 13
Seymour Hersh hs long been an intelligence messenger.Mixed with being a messenger of alleged intelligence. His reputation from times long gone is being used, he is not reliable today.
Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 3 2024 15:32 utc | 39
Which Putin double didn’t heed their warning? After all, this is the same institution that said he was close to death two years ago, can’t blame the Russians if they follow the advice of the Putin double who was not informed.
Posted by: Milites | Apr 3 2024 15:36 utc | 40
Crocus Hall, Gaza, Iran consulate, Nord Stream - either overt aggression or sabotage - all atrocities. Being registered across the globe with realignments with China, Russia. ASEAN votes to align with China. Several African countries quietly or overtly kicking out EUUS. Rapid realignment of capital, banking and energy.
Biden replaces the youngster on the Fool card on the Tarot. The US is represented by the Tower.
Posted by: abierno | Apr 3 2024 15:39 utc | 41
Seymour Hersh has made great contributions in the past. In the byzantine corridors of US intelligence (a realm hundreds of billions Dollars in size) it is impossible to always make the correct assessment. Being fed is not necessarily a bad thing. If the information is good it does not matter whether the source has their own intentions or not.
In the end no source and no journalist (or government) is ever fully trustworthy. Doesn't mean they should be automatically dismissed.
Posted by: Hamburger | Apr 3 2024 15:45 utc | 42
"But what is really disturbing is that people fall for it."
That is the problem. Suckers guzzling down snake oil.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 3 2024 15:54 utc | 43
DUTY TO WARN Seymour Hersh, Mar 27 2024 (emphasis added)
Read that one last week and unsubscribed. I highly recommend others follow suit. This guy, Declan Hayes and others have shifted gears to function as agencies of US imperialism imo. And they won't be the last.
MSM is ignored by anyone with a brain and principles, which is why alt journos have become so much more influential of late. Imperialism can and will enrich some of them so that they gently turn the line and win readers to support for WW3. In Hersh's case, it's pretty clear he's a Zionist.
Stay vigilant!
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Apr 3 2024 16:08 utc | 44
Patrushev reveals an important detail:
Moscow saw U.S. Embassy warnings of a terrorist attack, Patrushev says (RIA Novosti, April 3, 2024 — in Russian; emphasis mine)
Russia paid attention to the fact that back on March 7, the U.S. and British embassies published warnings about the danger of terrorist attacks in Moscow, said Nikolay Patrushev, Secretary of the Russian Security Council.“We paid attention to the fact that on March 7, first the U.S. and British embassies published warnings to their citizens about the danger of a terrorist attack being carried out in Moscow in the next 48 hours. It was on that day, as witnesses reported, that the perpetrators of the terrorist attack visited Crocus City Hall to assess situation on the ground,” Patrushev said, speaking in Astana at the 19th annual meeting of the secretaries of the security councils of the SCO member states.
…
Posted by: S | Apr 3 2024 16:16 utc | 45
My first knowledge of ISIS came about when the US Congress denied O permission to attack Syria. ISIS then immediately attacked Syria. I dont claim to be a brainiac but Deepstate manipulation is become so damn obvious its hard not to believe the majority who dont see it arent morons.
Posted by: Ralph Conner | Apr 3 2024 16:25 utc | 46
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 3 2024 12:28 utc | 7
William Walker y los Filibusteros, Nicaragua as the original emplacement for the interoceanic channel with Vanderbilt as the promoter. Beautiful and poor Central America could claim a lot of damages from the outlaws, and eventually they will since it is obvious that manifest destiny and Monroe are not that stable anymore. I always wondered what the true term “Filibustero” means since it is a delaying tactic in the US Congress if I got it right.
Posted by: Paco | Apr 3 2024 16:32 utc | 47
Seymour Hersh is unwittingly being used to peddle misinformation by the US establishment. Unfortunately this is not the first time and I'm afraid it's not going to be the last. He should go into permanent retirement from news writing, and perhaps start writing his memoir or investigative journalism fiction.
Posted by: Steve | Apr 3 2024 16:34 utc | 48
Russia says it is working on removing Taliban from its terrorist list
By Reuters April 2, 202411:55 AM GMT+1Updated a day ago
that shows what the Russkies think as to who did and didnt do it,
now doesnt it?
Posted by: chris m | Apr 3 2024 16:35 utc | 49
Articles like these that sometimes make me feel b is a Russian posing as a German
Posted by: A.z | Apr 3 2024 16:53 utc | 50
"Seymour Hersh is unwittingly being used to peddle misinformation by the US establishment. Unfortunately this is not the first time and I'm afraid it's not going to be the last. He should go into permanent retirement from news writing, and perhaps start writing his memoir or investigative journalism fiction.
Posted by: Steve | Apr 3 2024 16:34 utc | 48"
=======
IF, as you said re: Hersh - "Unfortunately this is not the first time and I'm afraid it's not going to be the last" then continuing to describe his spreading of US Intel agency bullshit as "unwitting", is a bit of a stretch, to say the least
Posted by: HershSmersh | Apr 3 2024 17:00 utc | 51
Our host: "But what is really disturbing is that people fall for it."
It is a patriot's duty to believe official nonsense, no matter how ridiculous, when a country is a war, and America has been at war for generations. Every American knows they are at war, but the official posture is denial, so that is also the expected behavior of proper Americans. Everyone also knows that America is behind the terrorist attacks, but the proper modeled response is "We dindu nuffin`!"
After generations of practice, it is part of the culture. Latin American death squads, Indonesian genocide, assassinations of popular socialist presidents and leaders on every continent; everyone knows the USA is responsible, but they are duty-bound to feign ignorance.
Yes, that is disturbing.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 3 2024 17:06 utc | 52
US terror agencies must be destroyed. They are the real trouble makers of our world. They, unfortunately, are able to manufacture subjects who believe their lies and support their state sponsored violence. This ability to subjectivize is US terror agencies greatest skill and threat.
Posted by: Wilikins | Apr 3 2024 17:15 utc | 53
The ISIS is the Arab legion of the USA and its Zionist buddy. It's very likely they had a hand in the latest terror attack. That being said, I still consider that the USA has warned Russia. They had a time frame and heavy security prevented the attack. If there had been no visible security then it would be possible to consider the warning as invalid intel. But there was some security upgrade visible enough to cancel a planned attack. The least the Russians should have done is maintain some security, even low key and invisible, for some weeks, to ensure the originally planned attack was not simply postponed. Russia has failed on this one.
Posted by: Stephane | Apr 3 2024 17:22 utc | 54
At this point the guilty have been crying wolf for so long that they are no longer due the benefit of the doubt. The usual suspects and their intelligence agencies' wetwork divisions are guilty until proven innocent, and should be treated as such. Anything else feels like a waste of time.
Posted by: titmouse | Apr 3 2024 17:48 utc | 55
"Vladimir Lenin advocated the use of state terrorism since the earliest days of his political activities. At the third congress of the RSDLP in 1905, while he was discussing the revolution in Russia, he argued that mass terror needed to be used in order to prevent anti-revolutionary mutinies. Lenin had been influenced by the writings of radical revolutionary Sergey Nechayev and his manifesto which called for Jacobin style terror, saying that every communist revolutionary should read him."
Posted by: Jack A | Apr 3 2024 17:50 utc | 56
Always fun to see posters supporting the false flag of 9-11-01 as factual. It seems a priority. I clearly recall newspaper reports in advance stating “ not a matter of if but when”. Ever since, every tidbit has been bullshit. Those asserting legitimacy to that storyline are more than suspect and not just of stupidity.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Apr 3 2024 17:51 utc | 57
Dungroanin @ 19
I am intrigued Dun, that is some FINE descriptives of what I always felt was the REAL cause of a lot of the world's terror problems. Early aristocrat families infiltrated by old Dutch tribe agents that transferred to England back in the late 1600's. These vermin are deeply entrenched in society except ((they)) are rich as hell, powerful beyond imagination and literally control most of the world from their nest deep in the City. THAT is where a couple of Kinzhals will do the MOST good for humanity.
Posted by: bisfugged | Apr 3 2024 17:56 utc | 58
My first knowledge of ISIS came about when the US Congress denied O permission to attack Syria. ISIS then immediately attacked Syria.
Posted by: Ralph Conner | Apr 3 2024 16:25 utc | 46
It wasn't just the Congress. Even the UK mini-me refused to go along with the ridiculous story that Assad gassed children just as the OPCW team arrived, by request of the Syrian government, to investigate Syria's claims that the terrorists were using chemical weapons on Syria troops.
We were told that Assand picked that very moment to use chemical weapons on his own people. Absolutely right that is too stupid to believe, but I think that most Americans did anyway. But for once Parliament didn't.
Yeah, ISIS rolled out early the next year, 2014, in spiffy Toyota pickup trucks, wearing matching uniforms and flying factory made flags. They never ran out of arms or ammo, and the USAF made sure that they had supplies by air dropping them crates, as they moved through the desert.
They produced quality beheading videos which were shown on all social media, without censorship, and they even put out print magazines in multiple languages.
With such talent available to them, it's a wonder they spent their time beheading and terrorizing.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 3 2024 17:59 utc | 59
Obama talking about the US training ISIL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMo3fJMPdEE
Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 3 2024 18:03 utc | 60
USA warned Russia ...the USA didn't warn Russia. So what? It doesn't matter. It's not like Russia is going to go to war with the USA over this. There's no trust between the two anyway so it's just he said, she said.
Everyone in the world outside the US based MSM bubble knows that Ukraine is a proxy for the Anglo / American's. No one believes that Ukraine does anything without CIA / MI6 blessing and finance.
The Russians are genuinely hurt by this attack and will seek their revenge, of that I have no doubt. The Russian criminal investigation is necessary to find all the culprits but direct evidence of CIA / MI6 is just going to be used to embarrass the USA / GB. The Russians may sponsor a little terrorism of their own against the offending nations but nothing to start WW3 over. Ukraine is probably feel it pretty good however.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Apr 3 2024 18:12 utc | 61
Hersh's ears must be burning, because he just released another article claiming there were additional warnings sent to the Russians after the March 7 statement.
WHAT DID WE KNOW AND WHEN DID WE KNOW IT?
The only public indication of the pending attack in Moscow was a March 7 statement by the American Embassy there warning Americans visiting there to avoid large gatherings for the next two days because of reports of a pending extremist attack. The lack of further information before the March 22 slaughter led some journalists and bloggers to report that the American intelligence community had concluded the threat was not credible and thus the Russian leadership was not at fault for not insisting on intensive security at the concert.In fact, as I have been told by an informed official, there were more intelligence-to-intelligence warnings, at least one of which was marked “urgent,” provided before the concert by the CIA to Russian intelligence. “Marking it ‘urgent,’” the official said, “means that the data provided” about a pending Islamic terrorist attack “was credible and near-term. It’s neither our responsibility nor capacity to direct the internal defenses they [Russian intelligence] take or don’t take to counter . . . what we tell them about.”
Of course, the details are vague, as are the dates.
Oddly, after Hersh finishes with his trashing, he suddenly softens his stance, even echoing Larry Johnson a little:
The American official took issue with the Post account, explaining that the target, as depicted in the Duty to Warn report, was not known other than as a “public gathering,” and the CIA officer’s brief, as spelled out in the message, did not specifically cite the March 22 concert, although “it was a likely hit.” The worry, he said, was that focusing on the concert as the target” would certainly reduce precautions taken elsewhere.” The official also caustically viewed the account presented to the Post as being “deliberately spun to make [Russian President Vladimir Putin’s] failure far worse.”
My interpretation is that Hersh trusts his sources, but is a bit defensive about his service as a US intelligence agency stenographer.
Posted by: Zar | Apr 3 2024 18:13 utc | 62
Scorpion @ 26
Todd's conclusions are exactly what HenryMakow saw as the current schism into two sides of the same coin. One group is actively "working" against the other as their goals are NOT matching up these days. There will be war coming against the goyim but one faction of the Usual Suspects is siding with the East (Brics) while the other is trying to hold on by their fingertips to the old ways or maybe it's some other disagreement.
Time will tell how humanity survives this mini battle.
Posted by: bisfugged | Apr 3 2024 18:23 utc | 63
As mentioned, Hersh has released a new report with follow-up information from his US intelligence sources. It answers the question raised by b, that the reported warnings from the US and British embassies regarding a terrorist threat around 7 March were time specific and narrow. By the word of Hersh’s source the communications between the US intelligence services and the FSB continued after the public warning expired and were marked ‘urgent’, meaning the threat was continuing and credible.
This may be and we the public have no way of discrediting this account, it is under confidence. However, the new claim can be measured against two pieces of information that the public can observe: the attack against the concert venue did in fact succeed, and the US and UK embassies did not issue any warnings to the public before the successful attack.
Why was there not a second public warning? Was there a change in the intelligence source? Did the initial warning for 7 March make the subsequent intelligence gathering more difficult by tipping off the perpetrators? Was there a drop in confidence in the information among US intelligence after the first date passed without incident?
These questions will probably remain unanswered. As an uninformed member of the public it looks like US intelligence also failed in early March or in the days before 22 March.
Posted by: a stone | Apr 3 2024 18:43 utc | 64
US intel warning: Some bad dudes might do something bad somewhere at some point.
Nostradamus and Malachi were less cryptic.
(Of course US Intel knew, they were the planners)
Posted by: c matt | Apr 3 2024 18:44 utc | 65
(Haven't read other comments yet).
I probably shouldn't comment (rough weeks) but...
People fall for it because for just about anybody this kind of evil is relegated to fictional "cheap thrill" descriptions of villains etc. and by definition not something any "good guys" would ever do. Combine that with the self-identification as "good guys" and it becomes an impossibility.
Simple and easy and you can do your best to live your life which has plenty enough of stuff to deal with as it is even if you're doing well.
It takes a lot to get through to most good people that they're actually part of or living under the rule of the "bad guys" and that it is all of the "options" and not just this or that political party or group of people or even that there's not actually any exceptions (that goes for -isms as well).
This is despite how obviously true it is in any place at any time; there will always be those willing to use evil means and even if one tries to get rid of those physically it doesn't work simply because it's something everyone is capable of and can find motivation for.
Especially anyone who deems themselves good or has a cause. Easiest thing in the world.
I see it here as well and I know I'm no better.
How could it be any different? Actual education and empathy only gets anyone so far, for me Assange and Snowden were required to finally break the spell but for a lot of people that simply wasn't enough or it went completely over their heads.
One thing that I find somewhat curious is that most of the people who were against the war on Iraq now seem to be against Russia. Doubly weird since I was completely sold on Iraq (although not for the stated US reasons, I simply welcomed the removal of Saddam).
Maybe it is all unavoidable due to the limitations we have as a species. I do not believe that what I have described is some peculiar flaw only found in the west, far from it.
Basic group dynamics?
All of that against "us" and yet the US/"western" propaganda still reeks and plenty of people in "the west" still object. Maybe that's already more than one could reasonably demand.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 3 2024 18:52 utc | 67
But that there is a difference between globalist and Zionist Jewish power networks has been clear for some time, though rarely if ever mentioned in most news coverage which hides their role in the US and West.
Posted by: scorpion | Apr 3 2024 14:14 utc | 26
Indeed, one of most frequent fallacy schemes is "they are all the same". Early after 2014 I observed that "Israel" faction of Zionists, most of all Israeli leaders, were very reluctant to take sides in Ukrainian conflict. It was none of their interest, they had some accommodation with Putin, and local business tycoons had ties with Russia. Netanyahu even mused on building ties with China. This would separate them to some degree from "Kaganate" faction. One could joke that the latter pretended to be Zionists to further their goals, to wit, restoration of the Kaganate, and the faction incidentally includes some Kagans (as a family name, Kagan is derived from Cohen through Cyrillic alphabet and Russian phonetics).
Nevertheless, Galut Zionists seem to be globalist. First of all, Zionists are not as dominant in the West as they appear (in part, due to self-promotion), to flourish they need integration in a larger imperialist or Atlanticist milieu. Their ability to mobilize wealthy Zionists and penetrate media and think tanks has multiple uses for that larger milieu. But in the same time, Zionism is a rather peculiar ideology, overlayed with religion or quasi-religion. Aliya, those in Israel, are "elevated", in particular above the Galut, i.e. Exile or Diaspora. So for all the differences and even humiliations, Galut Zionists have to defer to Aliya, at least on things concerning Israel.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 3 2024 19:36 utc | 68
Except that, of course, the US immediately said that this attack, which showed Putin's impotence, would surely lead to regime change. Because that's how they "think".
Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 3 2024 14:47 utc | 31
I am convinced that their ability to think needs to be treated. In fact, after the terrorist attack in Russia, the flow of volunteers to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation increased to 1,600 people per day.
Posted by: Виктор | Apr 3 2024 20:05 utc | 69
William Walker y los Filibusteros, Nicaragua as the original emplacement for the interoceanic channel with Vanderbilt as the promoter. Beautiful and poor Central America could claim a lot of damages from the outlaws, and eventually they will since it is obvious that manifest destiny and Monroe are not that stable anymore. I always wondered what the true term “Filibustero” means since it is a delaying tactic in the US Congress if I got it right.
Posted by: Paco | Apr 3 2024 16:32 utc | 47
A filibuster is a (usually) government sactioned pirate and means "freebooter", they pay themselves from their spoils. The term as used in Congress derives from that, not the other way around:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_(military)
Walker's adventures in Nicaragua is a good example. The UK was very fond of them too.
Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 3 2024 20:30 utc | 70
Posted by: bisfugged | Apr 3 2024 17:56 utc | 57
“… control most of the world from their nest deep in the City. THAT is where a couple of Kinzhals will do the MOST good for humanity.”
Well yes and no.
There is also Park Lane and Mayfair.
There are also country estates and private islands.
Same in NY and Tokyo and every European city and country.
You might want to look at Ohio … the illustrious kings and Queens who live in their magnificent palaces guarded by elite mercenary praetorians of the ‘blood’.
The gilded super rich families.
Their hideaways in the Indian Ocean. The South Pacific, Oz and NZ.
The main problem is just failing to name them and look them in the eye and calling them the shits they have always been raising future shits to carry on their ancestral duty!
Through private schools and colleges and private clubs.
Keeping their Money Game intact to blind humanity with fake Capitalism/AntiCapitalism - pseudo religions created by master craftsmen at the behest of the actual Masters over decades and centuries.
Really only an end to their dynasties can break the cycle - that does I’m sorry to say involve removing their children from their lives and raising them anew free from their ancestral baggage. No chips. No entitlements.
Mao had that right.
A surgical strike on the city palaces is something but millions of ignorant fools live right there - hey I’m just a few miles from both the old City and the new City at Canary Wharf. Not far from Excel where regular arms fairs are held… it’s bad enough moving around as it is without anymore transport shutdowns!
There are always the dungeons and castles such as the well built and guarded embassies, Whitehall imperial departments and such like - and their outposts in the country and in many other countries who have no idea who is actually there! Muscat,Aden, etc.
such far away out of sight smiting is what is probably the best cure and a sudden rapprochement by the haters! Which would allow populations to suddenly drop their propagandised xenophobia towards each other and launch the bravest newest world possible without idiotic dooming and actually raise the masses instead of culling them. Manage resources and clean environments and flora and fauna instead of industrial agrochemical gmo shit food from insects!
It would mean that the majority of humanity would be African , Chinese. Asian within a hundred years with the same number of ‘Westerners’ as now if we can get back to living as humans instead of trans humans.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Apr 3 2024 20:47 utc | 71
Bemildred | Apr 3 2024 20:30 utc | 69--
Thanks for providing that answer to Paco. The implication is the long "tradition" of use of such unconventional forces to further Imperial goals all driven by Pleonexia.
Can USA prove that they warned Russia?
Can Russia prove that they were not warned by USA?
I do not trust the West, but also I do not trust Russia.
Posted by: vargas | Apr 3 2024 12:53 utc | 12
Can you prove you that you have never molested a minor? Show your work.
Posted by: nwwoods | Apr 3 2024 21:40 utc | 73
Bemildred | Apr 3 2024 20:30 utc | 69--
Thanks for providing that answer to Paco. The implication is the long "tradition" of use of such unconventional forces to further Imperial goals all driven by Pleonexia.
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 3 2024 21:25 utc | 71
Indeed. The habit of using a few atrocites to get things going goes way back colonial days, and seems to be hard to break.
Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 3 2024 21:49 utc | 74
My first knowledge of ISIS came about when the US Congress denied O permission to attack Syria. ISIS then immediately attacked Syria.
Posted by: Ralph Conner | Apr 3 2024 16:25 utc | 46
Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 3 2024 17:59 utc | 58
Yes. My first knowledge of the Korason branch of ISIS came with one of the US cruise missile strikes on Syria while Trump was in charge. I wondered already back than, why do he talk about them as one of the important targets but actually nobody already knows them. Their public history started with the announcement from the mouth of the US president.
Posted by: rico rose | Apr 3 2024 22:00 utc | 75
The more one hears of what Seymour Hersh is reporting, where he gets his information from, and what he actually says and (in particular) what he does not say in his reports, the more he looks like a gatekeeper in the way Noam Chomsky has been a gatekeeper over the past 20+ years.
Occasionally Chomsky is allowed to stray from his reservation and say what he really thinks about certain topics, but on others he either has nothing to say or disparages those who bring up such topics as conspiracy theorists. I suppose this year he'll still tell people to vote for Biden if only so that Trump doesn't return to the White House.
It is very likely too that US intel knows the esteem in which Seymour Hersh is held by sections of the US alternative media and is deliberately feeding him some information (and not other things in the public interest) to lead those media and their followers astray.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Apr 3 2024 22:12 utc | 76
As usual US projects its own failures onto others. US had been warned about 2 Chechens living in Boston long before the 2 carried out the Boston Marathon nail bomb attack on 4/15/2013. US agreed they were warned, looked into it, but found no problem. BBC, 4/22/2013: “The FBI interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 after a request from a foreign government, US law enforcements officials have confirmed. But agents closed the case after finding no cause for concern. In an interview on Russian television, the mother of the two suspects said the FBI had been in contact with her son for several years. It is not known which country made the request, but the BBC’s Paul Adams in Washington says it is likely to have come from Russia.”….4/22/2013, “Boston bombings: Suspects’ Chechen connections,” BBC. After the bombing Putin by no means blamed the US, but politely let us know that he'd warned US about the two Chechens. Putting the "FBI" on the job only means dead Americans will follow.
Posted by: susan mullen | Apr 3 2024 23:17 utc | 77
Well, in a bit wider context, I don't think Putin is completely blameless here. For the years that I've been following these, the message from Moscow has been that the US is in Syria to foster jihad; specifically, jihad which will be let loose on Russia itself eventually. But what has Russia done to stop it? I think I understand the arguments that it's too dangerous to attack the Americans in al-Tanf directly. Fine; but then give Assad and/or the tribes the tools to do it. Moscow is whining about these US helicopters flying all across Syria to do God knows what; but all the same it's my impression that Russia is preventing/discouraging Syrians from shooting them down. And anyway, Idlibstan is not being run by the Americans directly; why is Moscow indulging this universally acknowledged jihadi paradise? All we hear from Russia are mumblings "muh political process, muh reconciliation" -- things which the folks running Idlib have no interest in of course.
In time, I've learned to see the benefits of Putin's "softly softly, slower is better" policies. By killing the Saudi proxies but leaving the Saudis untouched, you stay on speaking terms, and now the Saudis plus some others in the Gulf have been brought on board as BRICS partners. All the same, the Syria saga was a tale of not being decisive--of letting victory slip at the last moment, preferring to wait for a deal which may or may not come. And absent demonstrated resolve, why would your enemies honour a deal even if you get one.
Parallels with Ukraine. The Kremlin has said it's willing to go to war to make sure there's no Ukraine in NATO, and no NATO in Ukraine. Then why do you indulge a major NATO buildup (albeit covert) inside Ukraine even as the SMO is ongoing? Of course the West will then think that you're bluffing. It's all nice and well for the Kremlin to make its own plans; but you also have to understand how the West sees things. These games are not as smart as Putin thinks they are: they create serious confusion about Russia's intentions. Maybe it was a necessary evil, and Russia was buying time to complete its own buildup before it could confront the West more seriously, and meanwhile draining said West from ammo. Is Putin prepared to deliver a "nice surprise" to Mrs. Nudelman personally? I don't believe it for one moment; but if he'd do it, then CIA director Burns would be on notice that there are limits, or he might be next.
When all is said and done, the Russian policy is that Americans and Brits can't be touched directly, no matter how many Russians have been touched directly by them. If so, then why not push a little bit further? It's all good, right?
Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Apr 4 2024 0:11 utc | 78
IF, as you said re: Hersh - "Unfortunately this is not the first time and I'm afraid it's not going to be the last" then continuing to describe his spreading of US Intel agency bullshit as "unwitting", is a bit of a stretch, to say the least
Posted by: HershSmersh | Apr 3 2024 17:00 utc | 51
Word up! The guy is either a Biden like cypher for intelligence or a monstrous Zionist whose grown increasingly hide bound and evil in his old age. Either way, not to be taken seriously.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Apr 4 2024 1:13 utc | 79
The jewed-up Yankees remind me of Dilbert's pre-meeting meeting joke, the punchline of which is:
"You think you're funny but you're not!"
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 4 2024 1:37 utc | 80
If someone had warned the US that AQ was going to highjack planes and fly them into NYC skyscrapers on August 24 or 25, 2001, I would have considered that forewarning.
Posted by: tommylotto | Apr 3 2024 12:37 utc | 9
I think it was the US NSC? agency that warned Baby Bush admin of 9/11 style attack. They were going to resign in protest of being ignored, except that a new team would not be able to get up to speed in time to prevent the attack.
Posted by: jopalolive | Apr 4 2024 2:00 utc | 81
They fall for the bullshitting MSM, who are FED a constant stream of bullshit lies by CIA/MOSSAD
To see this stupidity in action, is truly something else. My Son falls for These lies and we get into it often
It is truly distressing how narcissistic some folks are in their belief of a warm cozy gov who wuvs them and would never harm them
What is even more distressing to me is that when this house of Zionist cards falls, these very folks buying this nonsense will be completely shocked and unprepared for what's coming
Seymour Hersh. What a major disappointment..
Posted by: Kay | Apr 4 2024 2:43 utc | 82
They fall for the bullshitting MSM, who are FED a constant stream of bullshit lies by CIA/MOSSAD
To see this stupidity in action, is truly something else. My Son falls for These lies and we get into it often
It is truly distressing how narcissistic some folks are in their belief of a warm cozy gov who wuvs them and would never harm them
What is even more distressing to me is that when this house of Zionist cards falls, these very folks buying this nonsense will be completely shocked and unprepared for what's coming
Seymour Hersh. What a major disappointment..
Posted by: Kay | Apr 4 2024 2:43 utc | 83
Even America's former puppet president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, has in recent years spilled the beans:
The Islamic State terrorist group is an American tool.
If anybody should know this, it's Karzai, as he likely had personal experiences with American sponsorship of Islamic State terrorists in Afghanistan.
More importantly, it raises an issue that pro-American apologists (including in the phony "alternative media") don't want to admit:
The United States of America is the world's leading terrorist nation--even as it claims to be leading a War on Terrorism, since the US Reichstag Fire event better known as the September 11th attacks.
Former Afghan President Karzai Calls Islamic State 'Tool' of US
https://www.voanews.com/a/former-afghan-president-hamid-karzai-callms-islamic-state-tool-us/3817463.html
Posted by: ak74 | Apr 4 2024 2:51 utc | 84
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Apr 3 2024 22:12 utc | 75
"Occasionally Chomsky is allowed to stray from his reservation and say what he really thinks about certain topics..."
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Is that random, do you think, or is it vetted like 'Yeah, Noam, on this one you can go off the reservation, mate...'
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... "but on others he either has nothing to say or disparages those who bring up such topics as conspiracy theorists."
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Again, randomly, or do you think he's told, case-by-case, 'Yeah, Noam, say nothing on this one' and 'Noam, please condemn this lot as conspiracy theorists'
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"I suppose this year he'll still tell people to vote for Biden if only so that Trump doesn't return to the White House."
Yeah, that seems pretty likely to me... he does seem quite convinced that the Democrats are on balance more progressive than the Republicans (as he sees it) when it comes to US domestic (social) policy... I will await his pronouncements on this round with interest, because I have followed him closely in the past.
Posted by: dumbo | Apr 4 2024 3:08 utc | 85
Never ignore gringo's warning about coming disasters, those are insider info !
YOu could call it predictive programming or plausible denial
When tshtf, they could tell you smugly...
Told you so, somebody are out to get you.
Exhibit A
William Cohen, 1997
There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus[weaponized by the DOD and CIA; contamination mishaps in laboratory in Reston, Virginia in 1989 resulted in deaths of lab workers; transformed by media spin into mysterious Ebola 'outbreak' at Primate Quarentine facility of Asian macaques monkeys]
and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops.
Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes, remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.
OTHERS are engaging in all kind of nefarious proj, race based bioweapon, HAARP, the lot.
Get it ?
So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.
there are plenty of depraved minds in our Dr Strangerove labs that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations.
fify
Posted by: denk | Apr 4 2024 4:53 utc | 86
Hersh did publish a memoir, a couple of years back. If memory serves, it was entitled Reporter.
Posted by: Lysias | Apr 4 2024 14:24 utc | 87
If anything in Hersh's reporting about Nordstream has been proved wrong, I am unaware of it.
Posted by: Lysias | Apr 4 2024 14:27 utc | 88
Lysias it's the other way around: none of it has been proven.
I'll run through various points. Can't say I've seen anyone make much in the way of super-convincing specific statements but I'm sure there's a lot I've missed.
At the very least the Norwegian Poseidon plane turned out to be a US one, not that dropping a buoy to trigger a blast makes any sense compared to something as simple as a multi-signal radio key that could be sent from a desk anywhere in he world. You could have more than one key to prime and explode the stuff as well and for each explosive charge. Underwater radio communication isn't anything new.
Competing weirdo official narratives makes it all seem utterly irrelevant and everyone loses interest. This is deliberate without any doubt.
The Russians aren't much better at saying something interesting.
Anyway I don't see all that much reason to pile onto Hersh since one has to be critical of everything and everyone to begin with. I don't see all that much reason to defend him either, and if he's a zionist he's a shit.
Don't elevate anyone. Don't create heroes out of people you've never even met.
None of the narratives or suggested explanations are particularly impressive but at least b's and MoA's general take on it are reasonably plausible or at least more so than what Hersh suggests.
Personally I don't see any need for divers at all, industrial ROVs (Remote Operated Vehicles, essentially guided submarine drones) are good enough fro construction work and detailed inspection and can work much deeper and efficiently than any team of divers. They don't need to be gargantuan either and while the basic facts about the explosions are still hazy the amount of explosives used in the four blasts in total seems to be less than a ton, possibly a good bit less and maybe as little as 400 kg.
Remember buoyancy.
Exactly what techniques were utilized are also not being discussed. I did point out and post a link to the particularities of underwater explosions in general (increased efficiency) way back then and it would make sense if there are more specific approaches one could take to make everything more efficient than simply making a big underwater boom ("dumb"/wasteful explosions are blunt like a club, "smart"/efficient explosions are focused like a spear or a sword).
There is no natural light at all at the depth of the explosions and always cold. Moving and arranging hundreds of kilos of explosives (and I realize that is a somewhat large assumption) by hand is a shit job down there and would be difficult and take a lot of time no matter how good you were.
It seems clear that one of the "charges"/arrangements/bombs was misplaced, that could have happened both with and without divers and speaks to the difficulties involved.
The pipes carried a lot of energy within themselves. If some of that energy could be used to do the job then that might make things easier or more achievable.
The general lack of real information only adds weight to "the west" as the obvious culprit.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 4 2024 17:54 utc | 89
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 4 2024 17:54 utc | 89
What the hell are you talking about? Radio waves travel extremely poorly underwater. That knowledge, if anything, is nothing new.
Dropping a sonar buoy from an aircraft to transmit a coded sequence to activate preplanted explosive devices from afar makes perfect sense. (It’s no coincidence that whales are able to communicate over long distances using sound waves. While radio waves, like other electromagnetic radiation, are strongly attenuated by water, sound travels far better through water than through the air.)
Posted by: Unnamed | Apr 4 2024 18:51 utc | 90
The ISKP (Khorasan) terror group was the alleged perpetrator. In retaliation the IRGC attacked Erbil (Mossad link) and Idlib (ISIL with western support - HTS-Al Nusra).
Iran claims Israeli-Tajik was one of two suicide bombers in Kerman attack
https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/iran/2024/01/11/iran-claims-israeli-tajik-was-one-of-two-suicide-bombers-in-kerman-attack/
ISIS has claimed responsibility for bombings that killed about 100
Commemoration Quds Commander Qassem Soleimani in Kerman - Twin Suicide Bombs Kill 100 | 3 Jan. 2024 |
Hersh does counternarrative. I think he's got his own trusted network and that it is hard to mislead him and I doubt B's hypothesis that he's deliberately being fed bullshit. But.
I like to distinguish between
1. leaks from inside knowledge leaks: those are his big deal revelations and I think they are very reliable
2. judgement from dissident insiders from intelligence community: He reports their thinking and often trusts it. If their opinion is mediocre then it ends up with him.
3. piecing together the puzzle: filling in gaps with his own thinking. He is unclear where the factual stuff stops and where he fills in the gaps 'it must have been like this'. Eg with Nordstream I suspect he's made mistakes and eg it's quite possible something like this happened: an actual leak of the original plan but filling in the gaps about what finally happened https://twitter.com/Erkperk/status/1762170483372339648
In this case it's worth pointing out what Jacques Baud thought of it: that Russia responded to the US warnings in the runup to the elections and that this interfered with the actual attack, delaying it. And after the elections the security was reduced and the attack got rescheduled and went ahead anyway. From the point of US intelligence that can be interpreted as 'they weren't listening'.
In that it is also useful to think about what the factions are here. Who in the US camp wanted the terror attack to proceed and who didn't, knowing that some people wanted to reduce the US footprint.
Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 5 2024 8:52 utc | 92
Baud also analysed the ISIS message and it was unusual. I forgot the details but it was along the lines of 'we have been informed', not announcement of a plan with a clear goal as is usual.
Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 5 2024 8:55 utc | 93
I found the interview with Baud, from minute 54 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHIyuBifY4
Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 5 2024 13:05 utc | 94
Not the first time Hersh has been fed bullshit.
Seems like they started with the goods (NordStream) only to use him for the rest of the time.
His reporting has gone down hill.
Posted by: AnObserver | Apr 6 2024 1:52 utc | 95
Unnamed:
0. The Russians as well as everyone else would be able to hear such a buoy. Both in Kaliningrad and likely St. Petersburg as well.
You think they wouldn't say anything about that if it had happened close to the bombs going off as in the story Hersh tells? Not even now when everyone else has brushed the whole thing under the rug?
The buoy probably also needs to be retrieved for a couple of different reasons. Sinking it won't be enough in my opinion. No need to leave your gloves at the murder scene but maybe that doesn't matter if you insist on leaving your calling card to begin with. You'll likely get what I mean when you read through this post.
1. This didn't happen in the middle of the Pacific or at the bottom of some trench. It was 80 meters down in a quite busy piece of international waterway where you would quickly hit land if you went in a straight line in any of all 360 degrees. If you want to use a local transmitter at least piggyback it on some passing ship or boat although considering how relatively close the coast is on all sides not even that should be necessary. Dropping a buoy just seems moronic and sort of pointless or even counterproductive if you want any kind of deniability.
You could even have the airdropped buoy functionality be replaced by a passing torpedo-like ROV (and yes use a radio burst from that on location, not goddamn "pings"), the kind the Norwegians make and which the US lost on the Yemeni coast a good while ago. That would provide cover and leave Russia guessing.
2. There is a hell of a lot of NATO military infrastructure within a somewhat close distance that could easily do the job and no one would know. Denmark and Sweden in particular but Norway isn't all that far away either.
3. Submarines have radio communication but something like this doesn't need that level of sophistication. Worse propagation than in air doesn't actually mean much. We're talking a few disparate bits of information in the correct sequence within a limited timeframe, nothing more is needed (but could easily be achieved).
4. One could also add a sizeable delay between triggering the explosion and the explosion happening. This means there's even less need for airborne acrobatics.
Remember that the Hersh story ended up as a US (not Norwegian) Poseidon flying solo mission all the way up the eastern North American coast and over Greenland and Iceland to Norway and down to Denmark just to drop the buoy. That story stinks.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 6 2024 2:49 utc | 96
The comments to this entry are closed.
Well it's not like these characters have any credibility to loose.
But the optics of the US has your back are held up for the world in a very poor fashion.
Posted by: jpc | Apr 3 2024 11:56 utc | 1