Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 14, 2024

Palestine Open Thread 2024-110

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on April 14, 2024 at 13:18 UTC | Permalink

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WOW...what a -Great balls of fire- I bet israel did not expect this at all- lines of cars on gas stations...they emptied grocery store only 24 hours ago... iranians did warn them they did not show all their toys yet....

Posted by: sejmon | Apr 14 2024 13:31 utc | 1

Exactly what Bibi wanted

Posted by: Polli | Apr 14 2024 13:36 utc | 2

I thought Iran showed great restraint not to attack the Zionist capital of Tel Aviv, but instead it attacked secret military bases in the Negev, remember the Zionist attacked the capital city (Damascus) of Syria.

Its now patently clear that Israel could not survive without the military aid of the (US) and the (UK) as both sent fighter jests to shootdown the drones and missiles, the (US) and the (UK) both aiding and abetting a Zionist occupying military regime that's committing genocide in Gaza, who'd have thought it eh? answer plenty of folk.

In my opinion the ball is now firmly in the court of Sunak Netanyahu and Biden as to what happens next, part of me thinks a full scale attack on Iran and Yemen is in the making, and another part of me thinks that it will not happen, however the wild card in all of this is that in the (US) its an election year, so will Biden go to war to turn heads, afterall he's already behind in the polls to Trump, who knows? we'll just have to wait and see.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 13:38 utc | 3

https://youtu.be/MqchjO_oRJU?si=1ZTMOJJy_1cNwHhc

According to Dima at military summary, internal sources say Israel spent 1 billion dollars last on somewhat ineffective aerial defense.

As Scott Ritter likes to say, do the (military) math. And if all indicators are correct, the resistance could effectively fire 1000 missiles per day of various sorts.

I would speculate that a point will come where Israel hits Iran with everything it has. It's traditional lightning strike. Iran's best strategy is to follow in kind. Really they should beat them to the punch if war is unavoidable.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Apr 14 2024 13:47 utc | 4

Sorry, they spent 1 billion dollars last night alone.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Apr 14 2024 13:49 utc | 5

[email protected], if Trump's get reelected I'd lay odds he gives more land for Apartheid Settler's.....anyone expecting something different is FITH.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 14 2024 13:51 utc | 6

US: "We don't want to join Israel's attack upon Iran."

The quiet part: "Until there is a false-flag against us."

Posted by: librul | Apr 14 2024 14:03 utc | 7

This is draining US and Israel.
Making both more vulnerable to a well meant attack.

The start of the end?
One can hope!

Posted by: g wiltek | Apr 14 2024 14:07 utc | 8

In January, one independent analyst ( sorry I forgot who ) - calculated that given the rate of expenditure in both the Ukrainian Civil War and in the Levantine wars…..the U.S. and Israel would run out of critical weapons by April.

Any Barfly have any insight if this is true ?

Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2024 14:12 utc | 9

The quiet part: "Until there is a false-flag against us."

Posted by: librul | Apr 14 2024 14:03 utc | 7

I'd have thought an attack on Izzrael would be sufficient 'casus belli' for the folks who took out Iraq for invading Kuwait?

No flag required. R2P or some similar nonsense would have worked.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 14 2024 14:12 utc | 10

(Updated)

Re-application for admittance to the World Community

Why I, The State of Israel, believe I am a good candidate.

1) I torture UN workers

2) I bomb embassies

3) I refuse to declare my official borders as I want more and more of other countries' (plural) land

4) I openly interfere in the affairs of other countries.

5) All criticism by any member of the World Community just reinforces my sense of priviledged Victimhood

6) I never tell a lie as I have no concept. I only know what serves me.

7) I invented the Samson Option and will take the rest of you with me.

8) I commit collective punishment

9) I kidnap thousands, including children, with no judicial oversight

10) I will commit torture if I see fit and even if I don't

11) I oppress occupied inhabitants and enjoy doing so

12) I commit rape with impunity against mine enemies

13) I steal land with impunity

14) I murder with impunity

15) I commit Genocide

16) I look forward to war and prod my neighbors for more

17) I need money, send a check

18) I commit false flags and if friends or even my own people are sacrificed so be it.

19) I implement the Hannibal Doctrine

20) Treachery and betrayal of my own people are a means to an end

21) I support and conduct terrorism.

22) I openly interfere in the affairs of other countries, seeking support for all of the above

23) I know that I can count on other amoral nations to support my wars, oppresion and theft.

24) I know that the World Community will not stop me as I commit future Genocides

Posted by: librul | Apr 14 2024 14:27 utc | 11

@Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 14 2024 14:12 utc | 10

As of this writing the US is taking the public stance that it has told Israel that it will not support a counter-counter attack upon Iran.

Posted by: librul | Apr 14 2024 14:29 utc | 12

sean the leprechaun (6).

I agree Trump will just be as bad as Biden, it was Trump that urged other nations to set up their embassies in Jerusalem. President Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

President Trump sent the first official American visit to the Western Wall with an Israeli Prime Minister

Here's another 100 times Trump helped Israel.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/100-times-president-trump-supported-israel/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 14:38 utc | 13

So the Israelis are copying the Ukrainians now. Yep, we shot down all the incoming. And anyone who doesn’t believe us does not listen to the MSM.

Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Apr 14 2024 14:42 utc | 14

If the United States was able to provide an air defense to Israel against Iranian ordnance, it could have provided an air defense to Gaza against Israeli genocide. ...And still can.

Posted by: Retired Morlock | Apr 14 2024 15:12 utc | 15

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 14:38 utc | 17

###############

Trump is the most American President of America ever. The world had never seen another leader so pleased that he was more popular in another country (Israel) than his own.

He's all about tomorrow's headline and has no patience or interest in leaving things better than he found them.

A great example is that very little of Trump's Presidency remains. I do not think it will be likely his second go-around will fare any better. His inability to staff his cabinet and closest advisors is a massive deficiency. From a guy who promised on the campaign trail in '16, "I will only hire the best people" of which it can be argued, he hired ZERO. Not one of his hirings has gone on to bigger and better things, not one of his hirings is held in esteem, and a handful of them tried to get him impeached and/or ran against him in '24.

It is difficult to imagine a less capable President than Trump. If he had done nothing but play golf with Lindsey Graham every weekend, he might have been further ahead.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 14 2024 15:19 utc | 16

Last night was the first since early October with no Israeli Air Force activity over Gaza.

Posted by: jayc | Apr 14 2024 15:22 utc | 17

https://michael-hudson.com/2024/04/gaza-the-strategic-imperative/

Posted by: Rick | Apr 14 2024 12:37 utc | 42

Great link Rick, thanks.
That was posted on the Iranian Missle thread. It's Michael Hudson in fine form.
It's not about economics but a historical view of what's happening right now in Palestine.
I've just read through his opening statement and it's imo really good stuff.

Check it out, it will inform you for this thread.
It will also help this thread if the echo dick is ignored.
There's a Week in Review for that talk, (and US prez crap too Love D).
This is a Palestine thread. Let's keep it that!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Apr 14 2024 15:27 utc | 18

Something remarkable happened yesterday. A sovereign state openly attacked Israel, destroyed some military assets with missile strikes, terrorized the Israeli citizens with drones and missiles, and suffered only from gnashing of teeth. Yes, the fat lady hasn't sung yet, but still... what other nation has dared to do same? Iraq supported the Palestinians and was attacked twice and its leader hung in a public square. Libya supported the Palestinians and it was attacked and its leader was sodomized and brutally murdered. Syria supported the Palestinians and it was attacked and nearly destroyed, saved only by Russian and Iranian intervention. Egypt attacked Israel and was defeated, its leader assassinated, and neutered by bribery. Lebanon supported the Palestinians, suffered a devastating civil war, and has since been subject to crippling political interference. Hezbollah survives but cannot control the state.

The Israelis have tried for decades to get the US to attack Iran, and even after this direct attack the US has refused to do so. Who do the Israelis fear? Iran. They will not attack without a guarantee of US military support. Iran has struck a US military base with missiles and captured and destroyed US military drones, and when asked if they would allow a token, face saving reprisal strike they refused.

I would guess that the strike on the Damascus consulate was not approved by the Americans and was an Israeli attempt to force the issue and gain US acquiescence for a military adventure. So far no dice.

Now it will be more difficult for Ukraine to receive funding and military equipment, especially critical AD supplies.

Israel has been shown to be vulnerable and incapable of retaliation without allied support. It can't even defeat Hamas without committing open genocide.

And the Yemenis remain unbowed as well.

Quite a day.

Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 14 2024 15:29 utc | 19

Here's another 100 times Trump helped Israel.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/100-times-president-trump-supported-israel/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 14:38 utc | 17

Personified: Jared Kushner, Senior Advisor to the President of the United States from 2017 to 2021

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Apr 14 2024 15:30 utc | 20

Site 512 in the Negev lets hope Iran put it out of action.


“Sometimes something is treated as an official secret not in the hope that an adversary would never find out about it but rather [because] the U.S. government, for diplomatic or political reasons, does not want to officially acknowledge it,” Paul Pillar, a former chief analyst at the CIA’s counterterrorism center who said he had no specific knowledge of the base"

https://theintercept.com/2023/10/27/secret-military-base-israel-gaza-site-512/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 15:40 utc | 21

hints about the mildness of Biden's "attempts" to persuade Netanyahu not to re-escalate

President Joe Biden told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that the United States will not join an offensive counter-strike on Iran should Israel choose that road after Tehran attacked it this weekend

emphasis mine. reading that as another round is anticipated. not really surprising

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/14/biden-netanyahu-u-s-wont-join-counter-strike-iran-00152130

Posted by: pxx | Apr 14 2024 15:45 utc | 22

At this point there is precious little in the AA missile pipeline to replenish the IDf stocks.

American reserves stocks of AA missiles and attached radar units have stripped clean by huge losses in the Ukraine, and by the vast expenditures of ordinance used the IDF during six months of deterring rocket fire from Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

If the IDF counter strikes Iran, the Iranian reply will have huge impact. Haifa will become Odessa very quickly....

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Apr 14 2024 15:47 utc | 23

Bibi is gonna walk away from this firmly in charge of the US relationship

Posted by: pxx | Apr 14 2024 15:47 utc | 24

should Israel choose that road after Tehran attacked it this weekend

Posted by: pxx | Apr 14 2024 15:45 utc | 34

Note that he is merely stating the US will not join in the *attack* (not that it will not play a role in the actual defence of Izzrael)

The Americans speak in infinitely duplicitous terms.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 14 2024 15:48 utc | 25

Prepare for war we all know Pentagon doublespeak by now.

"The Pentagon chief has stressed that the United States is not after a conflict with Iran shortly after Tehran launched retaliatory strikes against the Israeli-occupied territories following the regime’s recent aggression on the Islamic Republic’s diplomatic facilities in Syria.

Lloyd Austin made the statement in a post on his X social media account on Sunday after Iran’s Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) targeted Israel with a barrage of drones and missiles in response to the regime’s assault on the consular section of the Iranian Embassy in Damascus on April 1.

The retaliatory attack by Iran, which was supported and accompanied by similar strikes from resistance groups in the region, has inflicted a yet-to-be-specified extent of damage on Israeli military bases across the occupied territories."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 15:59 utc | 26

So the US now has a military base #512 atop of Mt Har Queren in the Negev desert in Israel.....all built without any Congressional approval, and the home to 1,000 USAF troops....

This in addition to the numerous illegal US bases still in operation in Syria and Iraq.

Both governments have demanded that the US close these bases and leave Syria and Iraq immediately....... but the US continues to stall.......

Just more evidence of the deep state neo con control of all US functions..........neo cons love the continuous state war.... the forever war.........

This week will witness yet another attempt to fund the $60 B military aid package for the Ukrainian Nazis and for the IDf too.........

Speaker Mike Johnson will use the Iranian counter attack as a foil to attempt to pass the package over the objections of the Freedom Caucus........any excuse will do !!

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Apr 14 2024 16:00 utc | 27

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 14 2024 14:44 utc | 20
Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2024 14:49 utc | 21

Yes, of course, it’s deliberate, the tangential bloat, to troll the entire thread without provoking a decisive immune response. There’s a whole team of colleagues at it, endorsing each other’s efforts, rushing to one another’s defence, no matter the absurdity of the situation. Contempt’s a good place to start.

Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 14 2024 16:14 utc | 28

NEW: 'From preliminary information, the main runway at Nevatim airbase seems to have been hit precisely in its center; the Iranians opted to send a message and to restore deterrence, they clearly did not intend for destruction, or we would have seen it' – Israeli Analyst @Middle_East_Spectator

https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/6208

I had posted this on the previous topic but it goes well inserted here:

Iran is said to have shot their old missiles at Israel. Old missiles that are easy to intercept, are less precise and need to be decommissioned. Russian sources claim that Russia rejected to buy the very same missiles due to their ineffectiveness. Still they got through.

https://t.me/myLordBebo/28046

Check out the size of this thing! Does look like like an old obsolete dink. Dead missile in the Dead Sea, practically poetic.

The remains of an Iranian ballistic missile in the Dead Sea

https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/6207

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Apr 14 2024 16:22 utc | 29

JPost - Israeli retaliation against Iran stopped by Biden phone call - report
A retaliatory strike initially proposed by some Israeli cabinet members, was called off following a phone call between Netanyahu and Biden on Saturday.

Posted by: b | Apr 14 2024 16:22 utc | 30

https://t.me/MIB_MessageInABottle/6317

Ahead of the retaliatory #missile and #drone attack from #Iran, Brave Benjamin #Netanyahu moved to the house of Simon #Falic #occupied #AlQuds/#Jerusalem, to hide out in the house's fortified #bunker.

Falic is a #US #billionaire, a Republican political party donor and the owner of Duty Free America.

Netanyahu previously hid at this house at the beginning of the #Gaza #Genocide, hiding from #Hamas and #Hezbollah #rockets fired at occupied Al Quds/Jerusalem

Posted by: SamHyde | Apr 14 2024 16:24 utc | 31

Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 14 2024 16:14 utc | 28

I'm not sure what you are talking about but I, for one, have appreciated the efforts of Norwegian and Exile, along with knighthawk and several others with the knowledge and ability to navigate Twitter etc., to keep us well informed of last night's events.

Posted by: Chas | Apr 14 2024 16:28 utc | 32


Can somebody with a military background (or who at least spends a lot of time understanding tactics and operations) please explain why Iran limited its attacks to military bases and not to military ships or Mossad/Shin Bet/Unit 8200 headquarters?

Is there an extra degree of difficulty involved, or is it just not worth it (i.e., a lower-value attack for missiles spent), or would that be considered overly escalatory, or is there some other logic entirely?

Thank you!

Posted by: Asterisk | Apr 14 2024 16:29 utc | 33

NEW: A retaliatory strike against Iran was called off after Netanyahu spoke with Biden on the phone, according to two Israeli officials – New York Times

@Middle_East_Spectator

https://t.me/Novichok_Rossiya_2/4921

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Apr 14 2024 16:31 utc | 34

Asterisk @ 33

please explain why Iran limited its attacks to military bases and not to military ships or Mossad/Shin Bet/Unit 8200 headquarters?

Good morning! It was a strike to de-escalate. It's complex but try to deal with it.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Apr 14 2024 16:34 utc | 35

The $1.5 billion cost of last night's defense is largely just going right into the rubbing hands of the people who made those satan's sling missiles, the circumcised dome missiles, and the Nose — umm, what was it called? oh — the Arrow missiles. Surely manufacturing them didn't cost that much. Lots of jews just got richer. What's important is that the missiles run out. If something hits the porcelain shop of US fighter jets, that's also good.

If these bombings become a regular Saturday event, I'll need to get more popcorn.

Posted by: Michael A | Apr 14 2024 16:42 utc | 36

Good morning! It was a strike to de-escalate. It's complex but try to deal with it.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Apr 14 2024 16:34 utc | 35

Just to understand, is a strike on intelligence headquarters generally considered more escalatory than a strike on a military base?

Posted by: Asterisk | Apr 14 2024 16:44 utc | 37

I'm not sure what you are talking about but I, for one, have appreciated the efforts of Norwegian and Exile, along with knighthawk and several others with the knowledge and ability to navigate Twitter etc., to keep us well informed of last night's events.

Posted by: Chas | Apr 14 2024 16:28 utc | 32


_________________________________
I am another who appreciates their efforts, and who, further, does not remember ever hearing from anyone called "anonymous 2020" before.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Apr 14 2024 16:45 utc | 38

@ Chas | Apr 14 2024 16:28 utc | 32

Chas, b just did a sweep and took out a number of Echo Chamber's long posts. Exile & Norwegian
had responded negatively to EC - in decent language - but evidently b saw fit to take their
posts out too. anon2020, who has posted here for some time, was not critical of them but was
just adding to their now deleted comments, actually in support of them, imo.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Apr 14 2024 16:50 utc | 39

@30 b
re: JPost "Israeli retaliation against Iran stopped by Biden phone call - report"

Hmm. Cautious optimism then.

Two questions:
(1) did they cancel retaliation in principle, or only the plan to do it on Sunday? article: "Biden administration worked to prevent immediate Israeli retaliation"

(2) what persuaded Netanyahu to change his mind? Is US going to walk back previous efforts to blame him for Gaza and try to get rid of him?

Posted by: pxx | Apr 14 2024 16:52 utc | 40

ARTE (French-German public) TV reported at length last evening on the big march in support of Palestine in London. But they have not said a word about the police repression of the Palestine Congress in Berlin.

(If anyone finds this to be off-topic, please say so.)

Posted by: Gene Poole | Apr 14 2024 16:53 utc | 41

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 14 2024 15:28 utc | 28

A lengthy and not too succinct reply is in the Open Week in Review thread.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Apr 14 2024 16:53 utc | 42

anon2020, who has posted here for some time, was not critical of them but was
just adding to their now deleted comments, actually in support of them, imo.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Apr 14 2024 16:50 utc | 39

I did not start reading this thread early enough to have witnessed all this, but I do apologize to anon2020 if that is appropriate.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Apr 14 2024 16:57 utc | 43

full video of attack on Israel from Simplicius

https://twitter.com/i/status/1779554606105727300

Posted by: ld | Apr 14 2024 17:00 utc | 44

or would that be considered overly escalatory
Asterisk | Apr 14 2024 16:29 utc | 33

Probably didn't want to escalate and probably they damaged the bases enough to send a message. It also lowers a bit the real option that Israel drops a few missiles on their own city and cries it was Iranians. From what is known at this moment, there were no hypersonic missiles used, contrary to previous rumors, only regular missiles and slow drones. So Iran has not revealed anything but Israel did reveal everything and how much they need not only US, but many other countries and many many planes flying (ready to kamikaze into missiles) above other countries to fight cheap drones and a few standard missiles, and they still have failed. This event looks like a test for nato/Israel defenses and tactics and it also revealed which other countries in the region are enemies. However, if these results are not used in the future somehow, it remains that Bibi and Trumpy successfully strike any target, and the "answer" remains a simulation for the internal audience.
Bibi couldn't care less, they announced new "operations" in Gaza to start in a few days. And if I understand local media, the large protests against him are now forbidden using the old trick to limit public gatherings to 1k people. For their own protection, of course.

Posted by: rk | Apr 14 2024 17:04 utc | 45

Exactly what Bibi wanted

Posted by: Polli | Apr 14 2024 13:36 utc | 2

Analysis from Al Jazeera:

‘This is the distraction that Netanyahu wanted’

The Iranian attack is a useful diversion domestically and beyond for Netanyahu as it shifted the attention away from Gaza and from the criticism Israel is receiving for the way it’s conducting the war, according to an expert.

“These last 12 hours are a victory for Netanyahu – notice what we’re not talking about today. We’re not talking about aid getting into Gaza. We’re not talking about the massacres in Gaza. No one in Israel is talking about the hostages any more,” Mohamad Elmasry, from the Doha Institute for Graduate Studies, told Al Jazeera.

“This is the distraction that Netanyahu wanted and we’re seeing sympathies in the Western capitals be reversed as they embrace the Israeli narrative once again,” Elmasry said.

Posted by: Vortex | Apr 14 2024 17:14 utc | 46

Trump associated with Epstein when he was still in full playboy mode. When observing Trumps stances on Israel it might lead one to think Epstein did his job. The majority of US citizens do not want more war although that does not really matter. The status quo is red team supports war against Muslims as befits their particular indoctrination while blue team supports war against Russia type cast as bigoted white Christians as their indoctrination. Thus the MIC is always fed whether from the left or the right
IMO both characterizations are fundamentally incorrect. While there are certainly radicalized Muslims by and large most of the animosity against the USA is largely from its support of Israel. Very few in the USA even understand the Sunni Shia camps and how US money has consistently flowed to Sunni extremists as a means of weakening Iran.

The lefts characterization of Russia as a bigoted white society ignores Russias fantastic success in Chechnya where it has created a society 100% Muslim, 100% on board of their own destiny, and 100% on board with the Russian government (as these things go). The non white populations in Kazakhstan also have enjoyed a significant autonomy (as these things go). Now my words are a characterization also but I dont think it can be debated that Russia governments have a relationship with their minority citizens and with Islam that has no equivilant in US government. IMO the Russian society is quite diverse in it's own way a uniquely Russian way. Genuune respect based on merit is so much more powerful than quotas in creating harmonious societies. Nobody's perfect.

I digress. It appears Israel may have to wait for a attack on Iran that has the full support of the US military. Biden being if nothing else a canny politician understands this is a archiles heel for Trump whose broad base support is MAGA not MIGA evangelicals aside. IMO blue team is handing this foreign policy disaster as well as economic disaster off to Trump where it will negate any positives. IMO this what Bibi means when he says "I understand" to Biden not approving full US military participation in a attack on Iran. Bibi truly does understand that the keys must be handed off to a Epstein compromised Trump before the US Is plundered for one last unexplained debt spree military sepeku as a function of the uniparty false dichotomy.

Posted by: misnomer | Apr 14 2024 17:25 utc | 47

Virtex@46

The effectiveness of the distraction will quickly fade if not followed up in short order by something else. I suppose the real question is does the US have the stomach to go for a real conflict with Iran at this point in time. They cannot just fire missiles intending significant damage and remain on the sidelines - at least Iran has said this, and a token attack won't likely satisfy Bibi.

Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 14 2024 17:26 utc | 48

Posted by: Vortex | Apr 14 2024 17:14 utc | 46

Only if you believe the Israelis told the truth. Like Boris Johnson, they lie first, and then if it seems advantageous, they may admit part of the truth. They didn't shoot down 99%, for one. There are videos showing more hits than that. The narrative was ready prepared, and launched as soon as the drones took off. The perfection of the 99% was reached slowly by excluding and taking off-line an increasing proportion of the uploaded videos, which were available earlier.

Posted by: laguerre | Apr 14 2024 17:27 utc | 49

This is the distraction that Netanyahu wanted and we’re seeing sympathies in the Western capitals be reversed as they embrace the Israeli narrative once again,” Elmasry said.

Posted by: Vortex | Apr 14 2024 17:14 utc |

—————————————————————————-

It’s just propaganda, they always win. They shot down a billion missiles and won there too....
Israel depends on projecting power and scaring the living poop out of its “enemies” this will not go unpunished even if Iran actually scared them it will force them out of desperation to attack first and strike as hard as they can.

All the talk and lies end in one thing, a massive war. The Russians Iran and South Korea all know its comming the western population in being told over and over we are at war. This will not end well for anyone

Posted by: OohCanada | Apr 14 2024 17:36 utc | 50

Teheran said the targets they choose were limited to units directly linked to the killing of their diplomats.

Hence , no ships, no Mossad, etc

Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2024 17:44 utc | 51


Israeli Army Opens Fire at Hundreds of Displaced Palestinians Returning to Northern Gaza (VIDEO)

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/israeli-army-opens-fire-at-hundreds-of-displaced-palestinians-returning-to-northern-gaza-video/#

Comment: Blind Rage atrocities are a hallmark of defeated militaries, see “Rape of Manila”

Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2024 17:49 utc | 52

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 13:38 utc | 3
=========================================================
You left Jordan out.

Posted by: AI | Apr 14 2024 17:53 utc | 53

Palestine Chronicle reports

….ISRAELI ARMY: Two reserve brigades will be recruited for operational tasks in the Gaza Strip based on an assessment of the situation…….

Comment - IDF likely sending weekend warriors in to rescue the beleaguered Nahal regulars.

Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2024 17:58 utc | 54

"You left Jordan out."

AI (53).

Not just Jordan but French fighter jets also aided and abetted the Zionists who are committing genocide in Gaza.

Iran's strikes against Israel's military bases late Saturday night were "in line with the country's inalienable right of legitimate defense stipulated in Article 51 of the United Nations Charter and in response to the series of crimes" committed by Israel, especially its recent attack in Damascus.

Reports say.

Iran hit a large intelligence base in the occupied lands and Israel’s Nevatim Airbase, from where an F-35 jet took off to target Iran’s consulate in Damascus.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 17:59 utc | 55

From what is known at this moment, there were no hypersonic missiles used, contrary to previous rumors, only regular missiles and slow drones.

Posted by: rk | Apr 14 2024 17:04 utc | 45

It's highly unlikely that Iran has any such weapons.

The only air breathing, scramjet powered working hypersonic missile that can fly by it's own power through the atmosphere in existence today is Russia's Tsirkon. The Chinese are reported to be close and the USA keeps failing but no one else is even close.

The only physics term more abused than "hypersonic missile" today is "quantum". All ballistic missile warheads travel at hypersonic speeds. Russia's kinzhal is an aero-ballistic missile not a hypersonic missile. Any country that can build ballistic missiles can likely build these. China and Russia both have "hypersonic glide vehicles" which aren't powered but ballistic missile warheads that glide like a "glide bomb".

Every country in the world that has ballistic missiles technically has a "hypersonic weapon" but really no one but Russia is confirmed to have a real hypersonic missile

Posted by: HB_Norica | Apr 14 2024 18:04 utc | 56

@Republicofscotland

Its now patently clear that Israel could not survive without the military aid of the (US) and the (UK) as both sent fighter jests to shootdown the drones and missiles, the (US) and the (UK) both aiding and abetting a Zionist occupying military regime

Do you not realize Israel is a British Empire creation? The American Empire is just a continuation of the British Empire (they are joined at the hip). Israel is a "tool" for the Empire to control the regions development and natural resources. America like Britain is an Imperialist country. Imperialism is wealth extraction (land, resources, labor, human mind etc..) from the World for the benefit of a "Racist" Elite minority (they do nothing and live in a garden while the slaves do everything and live in the jungle). Imperialism keeps and forces countries to stay under-developed and dependent. For the West, what better that to have religious nut job Jews in Israel create chaos in the Middle East to serve Imperialism. Israel is another proxy.

Posted by: Ron | Apr 14 2024 18:27 utc | 57

"It is difficult to imagine a less capable President than Trump. If he had done nothing but play golf with Lindsey Graham every weekend, he might have been further ahead."

I think this is called codswallop?
Of all recent presidents, I think only Reagan was better. All others W- A- Y below in honesty and ability!
I do not like his uncritical love of Jews, and the fact he supported the scamdemic and did not pardon Assange. Apart from that, he is miles ahead of Biden! And!-- he won the last election too!

Posted by: g wiltek | Apr 14 2024 18:34 utc | 58

Ron | Apr 14 2024 18:27 utc | 57
And do you not realise that the British Empire is dead while its successor, the American Empire is dying? And in part because of its uncritical support of Israel which has never been a project of any real substance and relies totally on others for its survival.
That means that when the going gets tough, as it is now, for the Empire marginal embarrasments like Israel are the first things that get jettisoned.

Those who believe that Israel was the winner from the Iranian attack are much mistaken: Iran just won a major victory, greatly increasing its status both regionally, among muslims and in the world beyond NATO generally. Israel was just exposed as the weak and unstable excuse for a state that it is.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 14 2024 18:51 utc | 59

Since hypersonic name starts at around Mach 5, it's easy to obtain at end speed in theory. Guided is a different movie. One of the newer Russian missiles for helicopters is 4 if not 5, can't remember. Not used in Ukr at all. There is no confirmed info that Iran used any special missile and drones were slow type, with the well known motor sound, took hours to get to destination. The total number was very low, 30 missiles are training numbers and 7-15 of them, depending where you read, hit the targets. By comparison nato shoots 10 SS at single target in a single night and thousands of drones per month.
It seems for nato hyperanything is not possible and they tried Mach 5 only. Mach 9-15 is a dream and intercepting those another dream.

Posted by: rk | Apr 14 2024 18:51 utc | 60

Reuters is leading with the following headline

US will not take part in any Israeli retaliatory action against Iran

It is part of the Big Lie technique. Tell as big a lie as possible and keep repeating it.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 14 2024 18:58 utc | 61

World geopolitical tectonics is changing, litle by litle...

Russian intervention in Georgia
Russian intervention in Syria
Russion SMO in Ukrania
Iran atack at Israel

World is different today.

Posted by: António Lico | Apr 14 2024 19:02 utc | 62

Any satellite images of Nevatim Airbase?

Posted by: Newbie | Apr 14 2024 19:14 utc | 63

RE: Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 14 2024 18:58 utc | 61

Agreed. Of course it’s a lie.

Of course US wants wider war, every step everyday proves it.

So does Russia and China.

Analysis drone on and on about “Joe Biden looking out for his election”… nonsense.
They was never going to be a 2024 “election”…that’s why Trump isn’t dead or behind bars yet, he’ll get his payout later…

Who doesn’t want the “economy” smashed??
Only us plebs…

The “war” is a certainty…
But first, more stock market and printing machinations, a bit more tweaks…

Posted by: Trubind1 | Apr 14 2024 19:19 utc | 64

Newbie@63

There are some reputed ones floating about. Runway damage and some buildings. Resolution not great. If real then a demonstration rather than a militarily significant hit in my estimation. "If we wanted to we could..."

Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 14 2024 19:24 utc | 65

Israeli politicians were saying that Israeli citizens shouldn't go to bed, because the "massive retribution strike" against Iran was imminent.

I guess 'imminent' doesn't mean what they think it means.

Posted by: Retaining_H2O | Apr 14 2024 19:30 utc | 66

If the Likud’s Grand Strategy has been to be feared rather than Loved; what happens when the IDF no longer feared ?

Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2024 19:31 utc | 67

Posted by: waynorinorway | Apr 14 2024 16:50 utc | 39
Posted by: Gene Poole | Apr 14 2024 16:57 utc | 43

You both have it correctly, I was supporting Norwegian and Exile in their objection to a post that b was good enough to delete, along with their own. I was slow posting so didn’t notice the matter had already been resolved, my objection now makes no sense =)

Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 14 2024 19:38 utc | 68

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMGQ2eIpP_Italian only, subtitles.
A well know Italian professor of international relations Prof. A. Orsini suggests (after minute 2) that the raid was sort of negotiated with the US, fly paths made known to Israel and allies in order that no damage done to Israel, but a clear message is sent that all of Israel can be hit by Iran if necessary. This should defuse the situation, Israel should not attack Iran.

Posted by: magicmirror | Apr 14 2024 19:45 utc | 69

There are some reputed ones floating about. Runway damage and some buildings. Resolution not great. If real then a demonstration rather than a militarily significant hit in my estimation. "If we wanted to we could..."

Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 14 2024 19:24 utc | 65

Thank you, any links?

Posted by: Newbie | Apr 14 2024 20:26 utc | 70

Very early, a day or two in to Israel’s genocide, there was speculation here that the ultimate goal was Iran. Even down to the “unwillingness” of the US. The only part that hasn’t happened yet is the sinking of a carrier.

Posted by: Rae | Apr 14 2024 20:33 utc | 71

When all the speculation by moa posters was unfolding one poster said Iran had to respond and soon lest it end up like Syria being regularly bombed by Israel. Looks like Iran saw it that way. There will be no encroachment on Iranian territory. Syria, not having the capacity to respond without RU support or ok, continually violated. Time is coming to put a stop to this

Posted by: Lavieja | Apr 14 2024 20:40 utc | 72

It could be we are genuinely seeing a stalemate. The thing is all this was known prior to Israel striking the embassy. Leaving it here is a tremendous win for Iran. Since this outcome was obvious more is ahead or they would not have hit the embassy. My guess what comes next is going to take resources not in place and getting the. In place will take time. What comes next is war not tit for tat. If continuing tit for tat was desired it would have been kept proxy. Hitting the Embassy ended the proxy stage. Now Iran has responded with the "concluded" business. A last attempt to avoid war because tit for tat ended with the embassy strike. What comes next is war two nations attempting to damage the other no holds bar. That undertaking applied to Iran will take time. in fact neither Israel or the USA have the conventional resources to win a war with Iran. Hormuz choke point and checkmate didn't dissolve last night.

You either believe Israel made a huge strategic blunder or more is coming. That's the two conclusions. Mine is more is coming. Its a huge undertaking (pun not intended) much bigger than anything seen in our lives including the Ukraine project and it necessitates resources that can not be provided with finance supported conventional weapons. The decision has been made to take something out of pandora box and use it in this time frame in this location in this ethno religious setting against a population marginalized with the brutality of Gaza as a background. This is similar but not identical to the previous use of weapons of mass destruction where the brutality of Ww2 was the background for weapons of mass destruction being used on the Japanese people who at that time were also ethno religious marginalized. The time place and circumstances have been carefully chosen and created to maximize the probability of a desirable outcome but all possibilities will have been considered. This project will take additional time to prepare for and the Biden said no is a conveniant cover now that the next stage has reached completion with the desired direct attack on Israel being the pearl harbor equivalent. This is the beginning of the culmination of the 80 year synthetic nation project known as Israel.

Posted by: misnomer | Apr 14 2024 20:53 utc | 73

I for one do not buy the story that this attack was somehow orchestrated behind the scenes, with Biden somehow influencing both Israel and Iran to do some sort of symbolic, face-saving attack.

First of all, he's a literal Alsheimer's patient.

Second, it reeks of narrative control to prop up markets.

Third, there are lots of alternative theories that make more sense. Iran may have decided to avoid civilian targets and not hit Israeli embassies because that would have brought a lot of unpopular world opinion.

Somehow, with all these missiles flying, we are to believe that not a single person got hurt?

It doesn't add up. Even Simplicius seems to have put his brain on vacation for this one.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 14 2024 20:54 utc | 74

Palestine Chronicle reports Sunday April 14. "Israeli army: Two reserve brigades will be recruited for operational tasks in the Gaza Strip based on an assessment of the situation.". Does this mean ground troops -- other than the brigade still there --to re-enter Gaza? The bombing is resuming. Did it ever stop. One moa posters has said the last night during Iran's action, Gazans experienced one night of not being bombed.

Posted by: Lavieja | Apr 14 2024 20:59 utc | 75

Scott Ritter: "Iran’s retaliatory attack on Israel will go down in history as one of the greatest victories of this century."

https://www.scottritterextra.com/p/the-missiles-of-april

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 14 2024 21:02 utc | 76

Loose ends:

What about the Rafah operation? Do we really think Bibi just gives up on that?

What about that ship the Iranians seized, isn't that a big story? Shipping rates gonna do the moonshot.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 14 2024 21:05 utc | 77

Compard:
In 1999 the U.S. bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, without fear of reprisals.
In 2024 Israel bombs the Iranian embassy in Damascus, Syria, and seven Irani missiles hit the Israeli Ramon airbase.

Posted by: Passerby | Apr 14 2024 21:15 utc | 78

Thank you b, for the excellent work you do but also for putting a stop to SB and EC, "they" had infected the bar for way too long.

My take is the strategic damaged done to the "invincible" Zionist brand. Iran, Hezbulloh and possibly Syria will now respond directly to any Zionist action against them.

I am interested in the following:

Jordan's actions have been noticed. How will its population react? Jordan is a poor country that depends on alms from it's Arab neighbours, who appears to changed sides.

US "support" for any Zionist actions were hampered by the GCCs refusal to allow assets based in their countries to assist. What does this portends for those bases?

How will the Settlers react to the lack of action against Iran? Many will now leave fearing for their safety, is the demoralised Army on the verge of break down, discipline has always been slack.

Will the faith in the "War Council" survive seeing all that hot air about striking Iran?

Posted by: Suresh | Apr 14 2024 21:31 utc | 79

An Israeli attack on Iran is virtually impossible, given all the airspace that is closed to US and Israeli planes...But it would be futile anyway, since Iran's nuclear facilities are under mountains..And the retaliation would be fatal...So Bibi's survival seems to rely on conquering Hezbollah in Lebanon, which isn't likely..Bibi will be toast within the next 6 months....,

Posted by: pyrrhus | Apr 14 2024 21:34 utc | 80

Second, it reeks of narrative control to prop up markets.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 14 2024 20:54 utc | 74

Methinks you've hit the nail on the head. I follow some market activity, including cryptocurrencies which trade all the time, 24/7/365. They took a serious nosedive as soon as news of Iran's retaliatory attacks started to trickle out. The consensus among the people I talk to about this stuff IRL is that the rest of the markets are going to see something similar happen when trading opens on Monday in Asia and the US.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 14 2024 21:40 utc | 81

sean the leprechaun (6).

I agree Trump will just be as bad as Biden, it was Trump that urged other nations to set up their embassies in Jerusalem. President Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

President Trump sent the first official American visit to the Western Wall with an Israeli Prime Minister

Here's another 100 times Trump helped Israel.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 14 2024 14:38 utc | 13

While both Biden and Trump are essentially ZOG controlled (look at their cabinets and donor lists), Biden at least shows restraint, in public. Furthermore, the progressive elements in the Democratic party can at least shed sunlight on the goings on, especially if more are elected.

With Trump, he'd cheer on the genocide and provide Netanyahu with whatever he wanted in return for hard-line donor money.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Apr 14 2024 21:47 utc | 82

The bombing is resuming. Did it ever stop. One moa posters has said the last night during Iran's action, Gazans experienced one night of not being bombed.

Posted by: Lavieja | Apr 14 2024 20:59 utc | 75

+++++

That claim originated from @PressTV. I just reposted it here.

could just be propaganda from Iran to add additional righteousness to their already fully justified attack.

But it's hardy unbelievable that the ZioNazis felt it prudent to pause genociding Palestinians for one night in order to concentrate of countering more pressing military matters

Posted by: SamHyde | Apr 14 2024 21:53 utc | 83

An Israeli attack on Iran is virtually impossible, given all the airspace that is closed to US and Israeli planes...But it would be futile anyway, since Iran's nuclear facilities are under mountains..And the retaliation would be fatal...

Posted by: pyrrhus | Apr 14 2024 21:34 utc | 80

Why do you think the retaliation would be fatal? Iran would just respond by putting on another fireworks show, not even killing a single Zionazi soldier in their response to the THIRTEEN DEAD at their diplomatic mission, then going to the UN to complain while the Jewish swine at the other side of the table compares him to Hitler.

Posted by: armalyte | Apr 14 2024 21:57 utc | 84

An Israeli attack on Iran is virtually impossible, given all the airspace that is closed to US and Israeli planes...But it would be futile anyway, since Iran's nuclear facilities are under mountains..,

Posted by: pyrrhus | Apr 14 2024 21:34 utc | 80

++++

A conventional weapons attack is probably off the table for the moment, given the difficult logistics, but a nuke attack cannot be ruled out in the future, given that the Israelis are brought up to be JudeoSupremacists who believe they can act with impunity due to Empire backing

Posted by: DamHyde | Apr 14 2024 21:58 utc | 85

Oh and further. Israeli envoy to the UN: "We are a nation of liars." An instant meme right there :D

I know he said "lions" but nobody could take the latter seriously.

Posted by: armalyte | Apr 14 2024 21:59 utc | 86

Iran's national security council has approved strikes 10x magnitude of the initial one in case Nuttanyahoo attacks Iran.

Also, saw some report where Gazans said they had the first night in 6 months where Israel planes did not drop bombs in Gaza.

https://twitter.com/IranObserver0/status/1779623804429316317

Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2024 22:00 utc | 87

That Hudson interview was unusually clear. My main takeaway is that he is calling for the RoW to create alternatives to the UN and IMF. I think this is correct because the UN-as-is is hopelessly hobbled by bad protocol designs and too many decades of failing to fulfill its mission. Just create something new and better. But are they doing it? Seemingly not.

My second takeaway is that if the BRICS+ configuration gains traction in the Middle East, which looks likely, then his stated US Imperial designs in the region, for which it uses Israel as Lieutenant, will fade away. How will that effect Israel? They may be running out of time, hence the current push to red themselves of the troublesome natives once and for all.

That said, I don't entirely buy the 'Israel as US aircraft carrier' line; yes, I believe Hudson when he says that's how it was discussed by the movers and shakers back in the day, but most of them have been Zionists, or their puppets, for decades now and without their heavy presence there, and in High Finance, US policy would doubtless have been quite different.

(I feel the same way about the US Constitution and Republic. It did not perform as intended and is no longer fit for purpose. However, there is no established culture in the US which can reasonably discuss, let alone actually do anything about it, so probably they will just keep muddling along into ever worsening dysfunction.)

Posted by: scorpion | Apr 14 2024 22:01 utc | 88

Iran's national security council has approved strikes 10x magnitude of the initial one in case Nuttanyahoo attacks Iran.

Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2024 22:00 utc | 87

Zero times ten dead is still zero.

Posted by: armalyte | Apr 14 2024 22:02 utc | 89

With last nights events some observations:

-a simultaneous barrage of rockets from Hamas might have helped saturate Israel's defences. Maybe they are no longer in a position to launch anything.

-the media has wholeheartedly switched back to their default position portraying Israel as the victim and rarely if ever mentioning how bombing an embassy precipitated such a response.

-the US has returned to its default position of military ally of Israel, with the flow of weaponry continuing unabated, if it ever was restricted, and any political cost of supporting Israel is once again negligible.

-the plight of Gaza and the investigation into the circumstances of the dead aid workers have been wiped off the front pages, who knows when they might return.

-Netanyahu got exactly what he wanted, at no cost.

-Iran would have been better off holding off its response at least until Gaza is resolved, and it was in a position to inflict more lasting damage, at less political cost, on the Israeli economy.

Comments?

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Apr 14 2024 22:04 utc | 90

Jordan's actions have been noticed. How will its population react? Jordan is a poor country that depends on alms from it's Arab neighbours, who appears to changed sides.

US "support" for any Zionist actions were hampered by the GCCs refusal to allow assets based in their countries to assist. What does this portends for those bases?

How will the Settlers react to the lack of action against Iran? Many will now leave fearing for their safety, is the demoralised Army on the verge of break down, discipline has always been slack.

Will the faith in the "War Council" survive seeing all that hot air about striking Iran?

Posted by: Suresh | Apr 14 2024 21:31 utc | 79


Jordan: I don't follow Jordan closely enough to hazard a guess on any specific time frame, the Arab monarchies in general are in a precarious position. Qatar is deeply aligned with the US, and has huge US bases, but other than that is an oil pump pretending to be a country.UAE, Kuwait, Oman, are not much different. Saudi is a bit more like a real nation-state, and has cleverly moved toward RICs, including joining BRICS+, but the others lack this foresight.

In a regional war, there is little doubt that the US bases anywhere but Saudi will be destroyed. In Qatar, this will be followed by the fall of the monarchy in short order. Saudi will not let US perform missions for Israel from the bases there, and in a regional war, anything but withdrawal will be a mission for Israel.

The conundrum for all of these monarchies, including Jordan, is whether to change sides now, which will doubtless lead to something akin to democracy in the not too distant future, or to help US/IS prevail in the hope that they will continue to backstop their loyal minions. The way things are shaping, it's not really much of a conundrum- they need to move now, or they will go down.

I think the best case scenario is that the GCCs allow the US to stay as long as they sit tight, until the overt conflict (which would include the Gaza massacre, which is a casus belli for several important players) is over, and then they will be pushed out. The other possibility is that the US participates in Israeli reprisals, and the bases are blown to hell.

The settlers are fleeing as they can. This will accelerate. Unfortunately, the math suggests that those most interested in deposing Bibi are also most motivated to leave, so there may be a hardening of the psychopathic stance of the Zionists that remain. Maybe they'll go for a new Masada.

Whether Israelis lose faith in the leadership in a timely fashion remains unpredictable. There is a tendency for people in relatively comfortable 'democracies' to refrain from direct action until it's too late to matter, and my guess is that this is what will happen in Israel. Israel's future will be shaped by its interactions with those outside it, rather than the will of its own population.

Posted by: Honzo | Apr 14 2024 22:05 utc | 91

Who is going to fly Royal Jordanian while Tazmanian Devil Netanyahu is on the rampage?
Travellers from Britain to Kurdistan can no longer fly to Sulaimaniyah over Turkish Air space. They fly via Amman .
Not helped by Jordan housing a US Air Base.
Now they will have to travel back by coach to Istanbul. But Erdogan is taking a very strong line against Israel's genocide, so that will be a treat to see the whole of Turkey by bus again.
Looking forward to doing it myself.

Posted by: Giyane | Apr 14 2024 22:10 utc | 92

Delhiliterally 90

As I have said before, is a man who flourishes under Hitler in good mental health? What about Hitler himself? What about Biden and Sunak and Macron and Scholz? Are they not grinning with delight at the genocide
they are enabling?

Those who worship power spend decades shuffling papers in order to get to the top of the pole. How can they complain when the divvy they draw compels them to assist madmen in the Middle East murder innocent civilians?

They waited their whole life.

Who cares about the happiness of a Nazi getting the slaughter he wants?

Posted by: Giyane | Apr 14 2024 22:27 utc | 93

Comments?
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Apr 14 2024 22:04 utc | 90

Hamas rockets are not the issue. Hezbollah has thousands of rockets and missiles of a wide variety to types. They aren't out of anything, and Israel hasn't destroyed their ability to repeat last night's performance, which penetrated Israeli defense on its own. Hezbollah has destroyed many military targets in northern occupied Palestine over the last six months with much smaller attacks.

The media haven't returned to a position that they never left.

Who cares what Netanyahoo wants?

It's apparent that you have no idea of the impact of Iran's strike on Israel will do to the Israeli economy- and the US/west's economy. Big investors look ahead, and what they see is the Iran and Yemen have the ability to cut off ME oil supplies to the west, and Yemen has the ability to close the Red Sea route to the west. Not just Israel, but the entire group of nations backing Israel will be seriously weakened if that happens, and governments in many would fall. Without those backers, Israel will fall.

Iran demonstrated resolve and capability. It's not just about a military confrontation, which Israel can't win, even with nukes, but about also about the economy, and if Iran cannot be defeated, they can crash the western economies with a handful of tanker seizures in the Straits of Hormuz. Perhaps you didn't notice, but they seized one as part of their operation yesterday.

By a strange mischance, neither Russia nor China are really dependent on ME oil. China's oil thirst has always been about fueling their industrialization by selling cheap manufactures to the west, but they have accomplished that and they don't need the foreign inputs- whether in cash or tech or manufactured goods- any more. The west needs what China produces much more than the Chinese need oil to produce it with. Combined, Russia/China is an autarky. The west, even as a whole, is not.

The US likewise cannot 'return' to a position that it has maintained without interruption. It's premature to say that the US will not change that position because of the Iranian strike. Bibi is a psychopath, Biden is a corrupt, senile warmonger, but there are a plenty of people in the chain of command that have some ability to look at the evidence and think about it, and they may yet force some prudence up the ladder.


It is, of course, devastating that the plight of dead Gazans and aid workers has been wiped out of the news stream, because if we had talked about it for just one more day, the war would have ended, there would be a permanent ceasefire, Israel would cease to exist as a nation and the new Palestinian state would rule the area it once occupied. Iran has a lot to answer for.


Posted by: Honzo | Apr 14 2024 22:30 utc | 94

The US-Israel were able to shoot down Iran's drones over neighboring Arab territory, which meant at least the tacit cooperation of the GCC states, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt.

Having a population dependent on government aid for food limits their ability to demand anything more, as long as they are worried about their next meal. Witness Egypt, Mubarak was deposed because the US refused to increase aid for food to match price increases, and the replacement dictator for the military rule is more secure than ever, as long as he is able to feed his people. Jordan is presumably no different.

As I've said before , overthrow of these US-Israel collaborators and liberalization of the economies to wrest economic power away from government control is the only way the people in those countries can truly be free. It is only through them that the Palestinians can have a hope of being free themselves.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Apr 14 2024 22:38 utc | 95

Great interview by Michael Hudson on Israel with transcription.

https://michael-hudson.com/2024/04/gaza-the-strategic-imperative/

He says he was at a meeting 50 years ago where much of this strategy was laid out. Really worth reading/watching though it is scary.

Posted by: Matthew | Apr 14 2024 22:46 utc | 96

Analysis from simplicius:

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/iran-breaches-anglo-zionist-defenses

Posted by: Vortex | Apr 14 2024 22:49 utc | 97

@95,

Exactly, neither of those countries would support their fellow Muslim countryman if a war kicks in between US/Israel & Iran. I think this is what this 6 month war actually showed to the world. Which is why I expected Iran to actually use it's assets somewhere where it could've made a difference (either with the Houthis attacking ships in the Red Sea, offer AA capabilities to Hezbollah, or better yet .. give drones/missiles to Russia to actually make a difference in a bigger and more decisive war).
Again, the West see China/Iran/NKorea/Russia in the same way, so why spread your resources as US/NATO want instead of use it where it might make an impact? While it's cool that some missiles/drones penetrated the AA of Israel, it really didn't make a noticeable difference for the actual war.
I guess the only thing that Hamas/Hezbollah can be happy about is that for 2 days, they were not bombed. Maybe we can count that as a victory.

Posted by: JamesBond | Apr 14 2024 23:00 utc | 98

Also, even if they won't attack Iran directly (in case we actually believe that US didn't agree with Israel on this topic), they will definitely use their proxies to harm Iran (ISIS-K and other "sunni muslims" which for some reason fight their own brothers when it counts).

Posted by: JamesBond | Apr 14 2024 23:05 utc | 99

[email protected] schoolers quickly learn the math of eggs and unhatched chicks.....early days yet. Unless some power other than an a preoccupied Super Power steps up to do God knows what, where, how, when....like really, how? This ain't over and it may well end up cooking off, both sides are two far apart to pull a North Gaza or any Donbass town now reduced to rubble.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 14 2024 23:07 utc | 100

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