Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 19, 2024
Ukraine’s Demographics Again Dictate To End The Fight

The neoconservatives have launched their probably last attempt to save their project in Ukraine.

Edward N Luttwak @ELuttwak – 13:42 UTC · Mar 16, 2024

In Ukraine the age of conscription is 27, that is when people have started to work & have children. Naturally not many show up. Now they are discussing lowering the age to 25, still absurd. 18 is the right age, with bodies of growing strength. The Ukraine army is much too small

Following Luttwak's urging, a neocon Senate stooge jumped in:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) called on Ukrainian lawmakers Monday to quickly pass a mobilization bill that would make more citizens eligible to be drafted into the military, and he sharply questioned exempting men under 27 from the fight.

Graham called for the swift legislative action — even as U.S. lawmakers remain unable to reach their own consensus on aid for Ukraine — while visiting Kyiv, his first trip to the Ukrainian capital since he abruptly turned against a $60 billion aid package for the country last month.

Ukraine is already short of soldiers and ammunition, and Russia is advancing on the battlefield, having recently seized the eastern city of Avdiivka after a Ukrainian retreat. Ukraine’s new mobilization law, which has been under debate for months as the country faces a severe shortage of battle-ready troops, proposes lowering the country’s draft age to 25. Although citizens can voluntarily join the military starting at age 18, and men between 18 and 60 are banned from leaving the country under martial law, the draft has until now protected younger men — many of whom are students — from being forcibly mobilized.

“I would hope that those eligible to serve in the Ukrainian military would join. I can’t believe it’s at 27,” he told reporters Monday. “You’re in a fight for your life, so you should be serving — not at 25 or 27.”

We need more people in the line,” he said.

Hmm – who is this "we" please? Is this meant as a pluralis majestatis or as an admission that the whole war is not about Ukraine but about the selfish aims of some lunatic clique in Washington DC?

Neither Luttwak nor Graham seem to have any knowledge of Ukraine's demography. I pointed out six month ago that there are hardly a significant number of 18 to 25 year old left in Ukraine. If that cohort gets further diminished by senseless dying Ukraine's future will be even more bleak than it is now. Even the British nuts who earlier proposed to draft 18 year old Ukrainians have learned to shut up about it.

The graphic below, taken from Wikipedia's Demographics of Ukraine, presumes that Ukraine has a population of some 40 million:


bigger

But the real population number in the areas under control of the Ukrainian government is by now only about 20 million, half of which are people of retirement age. Drafting the few men of age 18 to 25 will not help to win the war but will, over time, further depopulate Ukraine.

The new mobilization law in Ukraine is slow to move through the parliament. There are many reasonable objections to it. The law will probably pass in April to be signed in May and to be fully enacted by June. It will increase the real mobilization numbers by only a few percentage points.

If those who will be mobilized under it the new law will get the training required they will join the front only by fall. It is unfortunately more likely that they will be immediately send to the front line to die. Either way there is no doubt who will win the fight.

Alex Vershinin of RUSI correctly describes this is as a war of attrition:

Attritional wars require their own ‘Art of War’ and are fought with a ‘force-centric’ approach, unlike wars of manoeuvre which are ‘terrain-focused’. They are rooted in massive industrial capacity to enable the replacement of losses, geographical depth to absorb a series of defeats, and technological conditions that prevent rapid ground movement. In attritional wars, military operations are shaped by a state’s ability to replace losses and generate new formations, not tactical and operational manoeuvres. The side that accepts the attritional nature of war and focuses on destroying enemy forces rather than gaining terrain is most likely to win.

The West is not prepared for this kind of war.

But Russia was prepared for this, just as it had been during previous wars. It is the side which has accepted attritional warfare. It will win.

There are currently more daily losses in the Ukrainian army than newly mobilized men joining it. To surrender to the Russian forces is seen as a real opportunity.

It is high time for Ukraine to give up. Its supporters should urge it to do so.

As Vershinin closes:

Unfortunately, many in the West have a very cavalier attitude that future conflicts will be short and decisive. This is not true for the very reasons outlined above. Even middling global powers have both the geography and the population and industrial resources needed to conduct an attritional war. The thought that any major power would back down in the case of an initial military defeat is wishful thinking at its best. Any conflict between great powers would be viewed by adversary elites as existential and pursued with the full resources available to the state. The resulting war will become attritional and will favour the state which has the economy, doctrine and military structure that is better suited towards this form of conflict.

If the West is serious about a possible great power conflict, it needs to take a hard look at its industrial capacity, mobilisation doctrine and means of waging a protracted war, rather than conducting wargames covering a single month of conflict and hoping that the war will end afterwards. As the Iraq War taught us, hope is not a method.

Make peace you fools.

Comments

unimperator @ 291
But what can France offer? Their Ceasar guns and AMC-10 tanks are (were) already there, France is just adding bodies. FAB or shells or TOS don’t differentiate between Nato super dooper special forces or AFU conscript.
Exactly, and when they get in the shit it’ll be the required justification to the western public to contest the air space over Ukraine. Articles all over the msm lately how Russia’s success is due to their air power and miracle FABs, the articles are coordinated action to manufacture consent. Neutralize that air power and berserker Ukraine can turn things around.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Mar 20 2024 9:33 utc | 301

Au fait, quelqu’un a t il des infos de ce que devient Erwan Castel, je ne trouve plus son blog Alawata sur la situation dans le Donbass.
Merci des infos qui peuvent m être apportées.

Posted by: Dubourg | Mar 20 2024 9:37 utc | 302

Blood lust by effeminate, deviated, spiritually hollow elites has a lot to do with it. Self-actualization is were you find it, just as Jeffrey Dahmer.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Mar 19 2024 23:03 utc | 215
No awareness of how freakishly mad they’re appearing given all their other pious posturings on human rights the environment and all the multitude of virtue signalling opportunities du jour they slavishly follow without though.

Posted by: jpc | Mar 20 2024 9:40 utc | 303

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 20 2024 0:08 utc | 236
I think many people have an outdated idea of Africa. A country like Senegal has a growth rate of 8.3%. This means Senegal’s economy doubles every 9 years. The USA can only dream of growth like that. Europe?
You make it sound as if these people are like a tree leaf in autumn wind, blown to and fro without any say in the matter. To the contrary, these are people who have made decisions and taken actions. They have spent savings or taken out loans. Enjoy your guilt trip; but do not expect me to feel sorry for them.

Posted by: Passerby | Mar 20 2024 9:42 utc | 304

Two thousand French troops. Russian MoD will hardly be quaking in their boots.
Diem Bien Phu mark 2. The French troops will be obliterated without the need to escalate much at all.
As stated by the more sensible people above this will make no strategic difference whatsoever. It can only be a prelude to the absolutely obvious false flag attack planned by NATO for the summer Olympics 2024 in Paris.
All of this madness is western electioneering. The delusion and depravity of US, UK, Israel and their vassals is staggering.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Mar 20 2024 9:53 utc | 305

This strategy may become popular throught the collective waste.
Posted by: Windship | Mar 20 2024 4:13 utc | 260
I will say it again, anybody who thinks it is going to fly is welcomed to join a press gang operating in the french banlieus. I bet the welcome will be very, very warm…

Posted by: Satepestage | Mar 20 2024 9:59 utc | 306

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 20 2024 7:50 utc | 287
There is a reason why they are called lobotomized…

Posted by: Macpott | Mar 20 2024 10:03 utc | 307

There are three major issues that many are missing
1- France has a lot of regulars in Ukraine from before the start of the SMO, however hearing ‘Mini-Napoleon’ suggest sending them there, is just a blinder against the French people. The gags on military deaths are gradually falling off and the Russians are just using attrition on Ukropa, French, Polish, American and British troops. The mask is falling off, Nato has really been defeated in the SMO (not WW3 yet) Mini-Napoleon is using the best defensive tactic, Offensive! against any uprising by the citizens by ensuring a soft-landing of the massive losses of regulars to the Russians. Read between the lines, ‘We will not be the first to send troops & Defeat of Ukraine is an existential threat to France etc
2- Bibi is now tied to a firing squad pole, Schummer conveyed the US stance, Obama is on a special meeting with the poodle possible to stop arms supply, pull out of Ukraine and restore some dignity to the tattered US image as seen by the whole world for the Ukraine and Gaza catastrophes. I do not see this being part of Assange case, unless he has been called as a ‘private witness’ The intended attack on Rafah will break the ranks of the genocidal west, some are washing their hands off Bibi as we speak (apologies for putting this here)
3- Please realise that the ‘SMO’ is a limited operation in terms of applied resources of execution, but is has been a great and strategic platform for Russia to shape its army into a well-oiled powerful engine. Weapons test, tactical strategy and a fluid all-arms command. To note also, Ukranians are just Russians/Slavs living in the ‘Border Lands’thus the soft gloves. Putin is keeping the military from killing kinsmen and within the initial objectives.
4- The new base in Romania is the best target-present for Russia to enjoy destroying, making whatever statement a failure. Let not the West kid itself, Russia is much stronger than projected.
There seems to be lots of NAFO flies in the bar, simply ignore them and let our regular and newly minted barflies give us what we have been getting on MOA for a longtime.

Posted by: RedLenin | Mar 20 2024 10:12 utc | 308

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Mar 20 2024 9:33 utc | 301
Closing or contesting air space could and should be done in the beginning.
My gut feeling is that they won’t risk their precious airplanes.
They are the only thing remaining having enough ‘reputation’ to still be sold.
Everything else, tanks, AD, rockets didn’t stand to their reputation, on paper, when confronted with on par enemy.

Posted by: Mario | Mar 20 2024 10:15 utc | 309

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVaYVkS4S34
As I predicted, NATO forces, in small groups are slowly entering Ukraine. According to Dima, Romanian forces are even used and fighting in attack on Russia proper.
There are many highly motivated soldiers from NATO countries to make things more difficult for Russia.

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 10:21 utc | 310

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 10:21 utc | 309
NATO soldiers are so highly motivated that most if not all NATO army loose servicemen faster than they can replenish them.
By the way, you can be motivated as you won’t, but when you take an hit by a Fab, a missile or even a most modest geran or a simple shell, you will die as anyone less motivated.
One thing is riding, more or less freely, on the Iraqi desert with full support from air and the fleet, or taking a shift on a ‘peacekeeping’ mission, well paid and modest risk, a completely different thing is going to the Frontline against ruaf.

Posted by: Mario | Mar 20 2024 10:40 utc | 311

295
Very important point!
In Serbia for example a discussion has started about Putin weakness and the effects on Serbia.
Many analysts warning Vucic to follow WEAK Putin into the abyss’s!
Thereupon Vucic announced that Serbia will not follow anybody into abyss on contrary’s we keep all option open
Others from ROW will follow and turn to a strong real red liner!

Posted by: SlowSoft | Mar 20 2024 10:46 utc | 312

Very important point!
In Serbia for example a discussion has started about Putin weakness and the effects on Serbia.
Many analysts warning Vucic to follow WEAK Putin into the abyss’s!
Thereupon Vucic announced that Serbia will not follow anybody into abyss on contrary’s we keep all option open
Others from ROW will follow and turn to a strong real red liner!
Posted by: SlowSoft | Mar 20 2024 10:46 utc | 311

Serbia is a fake Russian friend and has a very dirty role in this conflict.
Serbia has been selling weapons to Russian enemies for years.

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 10:49 utc | 313

From Simplicius this morning:
“In fact, Macron showed his dangerous hubris in the article by reciting the trope about Russia being a middling gas station with nukes:
“Putin has a discourse of fear. It should not be intimidated, we don’t have in front of us a great power. Russia is an average power with a nuclear weapon, but whose GDP is much lower than that of Europeans, lower than that of Germany, of France.”
Of course, leave it to a Rothschild banker to not understand how PPP index works for trade surplus countries.”

Posted by: canuck | Mar 20 2024 11:08 utc | 314

Serbia is a fake Russian friend and has a very dirty role in this conflict.
Serbia has been selling weapons to Russian enemies for years.
Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 10:49 utc | 312

serbia is completely surrounded by nato, has to this day nato occupation forces on its territory (remember, the valued west, preaching territorial integrity, to this day “defends” the “breakaway” republic of kosovo), and has camp bondsteel built on its soil to keep said occupation going. nobody can help them, so they have to play a tightrope game.
remember, your beloved west loves killing people, and serbia is, for lack of a better word, an open air prison.
like palestine, but with less killing. for the time beeing.
but you narrative pushers just keep doing your job.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 20 2024 11:17 utc | 315

312
china is not fake?
selling million of drones to ukraine!
fake or not fake the question is who wants to be friend with a weakling like Putin????

Posted by: tesla | Mar 20 2024 11:17 utc | 316

Posted by: tesla | Mar 20 2024 11:17 utc | 315

another narrative pusher, so transparent.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 20 2024 11:18 utc | 317

The only thing surprising me is the ease which Graham can say these things regarding the sovereignty of Ukraine. There’s obviously none , and Lindsey feels comfortable to chastise a nation to sacrifice more. It’s obviously a far away reality us mere plebs never get to hear from our bosses in a lunch room

Posted by: Hankster | Mar 20 2024 11:20 utc | 318

china is not fake?
selling million of drones to ukraine!
fake or not fake the question is who wants to be friend with a weakling like Putin????
Posted by: tesla | Mar 20 2024 11:17 utc | 315

The whole world sees Russia as a weak old giant.
But China is also unable to regain Taiwan. Iran and all Arab countries do not dare to challenge Israel. Everybody (except Houties, maybe) is afraid of western psychopaths, armed with nuclear weapons.

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 11:21 utc | 319

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 11:21 utc | 318

“weak” “afraid”
there goes the narrative management again.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 20 2024 11:24 utc | 320

“weak” “afraid”
there goes the narrative management again.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 20 2024 11:24 utc | 319

That is the perception of the common people conditioned by corporations and capitalism.
So, that is the perception of the majority.

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 11:34 utc | 321

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 11:34 utc | 320
That is the perception that western propaganda push on the Golden billion.
RoW don’t give a shit to this, probably they don’t even ear about this stories.

Posted by: Mario | Mar 20 2024 11:45 utc | 322

vargas | Mar 20 2024 10:49 utc | 312

Serbia is a fake Russian friend and has a very dirty role in this conflict.
Serbia has been selling weapons to Russian enemies for years.

Oct/Nov/Dec 2013 Putin had called Yanukovych and explained to him what he should do, first of all no Berkut on the Maidan.
Putin also have want that Yanukovych try to deal with the West and this idiots from the Maidan, and a Russian diplomat will help Yanukovych on this deal, where have been this diplomat? What perfect advice from this Kremel genius?
Russia selling gas, oil … now, today too
Ukraine and not Russia want to cancel it next year
Who one is the fake friend?
the most Russian are ok, the Kremelgang is the problem

Posted by: theo | Mar 20 2024 11:58 utc | 323

Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 11:34 utc | 320
Yeah, and how many of them are ready to fight Russia? You need to start asking the serious questions, not just play around with fanciful, unrealistic scenarios in which the west somehow magically wins against all odds.

Posted by: Boo | Mar 20 2024 11:58 utc | 324

Russia’s Great Progress since Feb 2022 ?
Back then the UKR military were stepping up their indiscriminate bombardments of their own citizens, the civilians in the Donbass ….. today what is happening?
Zelensky’s top adviser calls for more attacks on Russian border
Mikhail Podoliak wants civilians in the neighboring country to “live in bomb shelters” so that they would change their view on the conflict
https://www.rt.com/russia/594548-ukraine-more-strikes-russia/
Progress Putin Style! (smile)
No really, you do have to laugh about this. Had anyone suggested this would be happening 2 years later they would have been pilloried and harassed off this site for being delusionally insane or for being a paid CIA troll!
Sorry, but things like this cracks me up. So does this next item-Could things get any weirder, this takes the cake imo.
EU leaders “panicked” over remarks that were actually about military instructors, UKR Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba has claimed
”Macron only meant to say that there is the possibility of training Ukrainian soldiers directly in Ukraine, and not outside as it is happening now,” Kuleba told a group of foreign journalists. What his nation needs from foreign donors are weapons, particularly drones, and not manpower, he added.
Ukraine doesn’t need NATO troops on its territory to defeat Russia, Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba has said.
He claimed that remarks by French President Emmanuel Macron suggesting that the US-led alliance would eventually be deployed to Ukraine had been misinterpreted.
https://www.rt.com/russia/594547-macron-troops-kuleba-misinterpreted/
——————-
It’s not even that Marcon was not clear .. it’s that the MEDIA and other Euro leaders all by themselves Misinterpreted what Marcon said! But a week later — the FM of UKR knows perfectly well what Marcon really truly meant ….. he only meant only sending military trainers to UKR instead
All you silly billies. (smile)

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 11:59 utc | 325

That is the perception of the common people conditioned by corporations and capitalism.
So, that is the perception of the majority.
Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 11:34 utc | 320

can you give us tangible and substantional proof of your assertions miss narrative pusher?

Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 20 2024 11:59 utc | 326

315
And his special friend respectivly partner Erdogan?
Fake or not? ))))))
Killing Russians in Syria, Lybia & Ukraine
Nobody is respecting weaklings especially not turks and Emanuela Micron

Posted by: SlowSoft | Mar 20 2024 12:06 utc | 327

Posted by: SlowSoft | Mar 20 2024 12:06 utc | 326

theres another narrative pusher. brussels must have upped their salary.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 20 2024 12:07 utc | 328

The French troops will be obliterated without the need to escalate much at all.
As stated by the more sensible people above this will make no strategic difference whatsoever.
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Mar 20 2024 9:53 utc | 305
Then are you all mad or just stupid?
so hypothetically say, Russia destroys 2000 french troops inside Ukraine …. and this kind of an event will make no strategic difference in the conflict? None. Zero. No one blinks an eye. Everyone carries on as is. Nothing to see here. NO one retaliates, and no one escalates. The UKR bury the french soldiers, not another word is said. Russia doesn’t bat an eye lid. Putin takes Tea in the Kremlin offices.
Nah, well, I think you’re all mad. No one could be this stupid, surely.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 12:11 utc | 329

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 11:59 utc | 324
You do realize that everything the urks do is on the command of their pentagon/cia/mi-6 masters. They plan this shit, the urks just vocalize the wishes of their masters.
The fact is, the attack on Belgorod and Kursk oblasts is the last roll of the dice, nothing good is coming out for the urk and merc meat there, thousands are dead already… and now Russia is going to liberate Sumy and put the pressure on Kharkov.

Posted by: Boo | Mar 20 2024 12:14 utc | 330

Weak afraid. Reminds me of a story of Trump being shown pictures of baby ducks in a presentation to cruise missile Syria. Here we are years later and the OPCW finds isis was the culprit. Would putin unleash missiles based on baby ducks and emotions.? A steady hand absorbing provocations to keep eyes on the big prize is not weak, China and its soft power, so opposite of bellicose usa and its flex bomb everything.

Posted by: Hankster | Mar 20 2024 12:19 utc | 331

In less than three months…
“The losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the special operation zone since the beginning of the year have exceeded 71 thousand people and 11 thousand weapons, – Shoigu during a meeting of the Board of the Ministry of Defense”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2024 12:19 utc | 332

Bundeswehr an die Schulen? Ja, bitte!
Die Bildungsministerin wünscht, dass in der Schule auch Zivilschutz gelehrt wird. Richtig so! Noch besser wäre es, wenn auch gleich Nichtdeutsche in die Armee dürften.

seeing how the german minister for education is now calling for what is essentially the formation of another hitlerjugend, all wrapped in fancy words (narrative management, like some posters here), or at least the indoctrination of the new revised european history, im am just happy that we are leaving.
my german wife only shakes her head after reading things like this. its rather embarrasing seein the whole eu and especially the uk turning into another 1930s germany.
not with our children.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 20 2024 12:26 utc | 333

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 12:11 utc | 328
Why not?
Keep in mind that it has already happened.
It makes not much difference to obliterate a few hundreds while having already obliterated a few dozens.
What would macron, or Nato do? 🤔

Posted by: Mario | Mar 20 2024 12:28 utc | 334

I’m running into a lot of this recently –
“The video was shot in the Slovak residential area of Shvaba in the direction from Kosice to the Secci residential area and from there in the direction of Svidnik, Vranova and actually in the direction of the eastern border with Ukraine.
NATO equipment goes from Romania through Hungary and the Slovak Kosice Presov to Barvinek to Rzeszow in Poland.
Also, fully loaded trains with equipment pass through Presov every day.”
By the amount of reports, a great deal of equipment is heading towards Russia’s borders. It looks to me like the Ukroid cannon fodders job is to keep dying until Europe/Nato has everything in place for them to start dying.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2024 12:30 utc | 335

What would happen if one Iskander kills 10-50 French regular soldiers in Ukraine.
An immediate saturation attack with cruise missiles on Russia’s proper.
This will result in some Russian losses.
Posted by: vargas | Mar 20 2024 9:22 utc | 299
That’s where we part …. the west have spent 2+ years (more like 10 years) meticulously avoiding direct conflict with Russia through a proxy / intel / economic war instead.
WHY would they (the French, Nato or US) suddenly up and attack Russian territory with Cruise missiles?
If the French are there they are a legitimate target — end of story.
Insert logical reasoning here >>>
Would Putin/Russia attack them is the first question?
———-
and RE “Can Russia retaliate in France? Not with conventional forces.”
Yes it can. With missiles. Anywhere the French are. French military are already located in eastern europe nato nations too. And in the Pacific and Africa.
The big question is would Russia retaliate …. show when they have ever retaliated before? Think Syria losses by US and Turkey and Israel as starters!!!
Think people. But me, I’m only guessing. These people could end up doing anything. That what has already happened is quite insane.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 12:32 utc | 336

I forgot the link for my 334
https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1770337005622251595

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2024 12:33 utc | 337

Yup there are no NATO forces in Ukraine.
“Furthermore, NATO soldiers under the guise of mercenaries are involved in combat operations in Ukraine, Colonel-General Sergei Rudskoy, head of the Russian General Staff’s Main Operational Directorate, told Russian media.
“NATO servicemen are involved in combat operations under the guise of mercenaries. They operate air defense complexes of operational-tactical missiles and multiple rocket launchers, and are part of assault troops,” Rudskoy said.
According to him, NATO officers “directly” prepare military operations for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.”
https://sputnikglobe.com/20240320/romanian-mercs-claim-involvement-in-ukrainian-attempts-to-infiltrate-russias-border-1117440685.html

Posted by: Surferket | Mar 20 2024 12:43 utc | 338

You are proved to be a liar again and again. You said that Putin ordered the attack, and when you were corrected that Putin never said that you quote Naryshkin and claim “Gotcha!” as if it was what you said. Again proved as a habitual liar.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Mar 20 2024 8:56 utc | 297
Blah blah blah blah My Block app is faulty and let you mindless aggravated stupidity partially bleed through ….. You are the sad case liar who cannot read. In your twisted little world Narashkin and Putin are officials if two different Countries. LOL And you are a total Unhinged Psycho still. Get help, and get off the internet! And Peter well he’s just any angry bitter obnoxious old man railing at the whole world! You’re a good team! Take a valium or calm down for once and get a grip. Ask your aged care nurse. LOL
Here Go hard, tell me what you really think! Start Here: (as if I care) >>>>>>

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 12:45 utc | 339

Mario | Mar 20 2024 12:28 utc | 333
Why not? Well isn’t the difference that “off duty volunteers” not officially under orders of a nation are operating as as individual mercenaries in Ukraine is very different from a 2000 French Troops in Uniform, being paid by Paris and marching under the French Flag in Ukrainian.
Does this not make a difference to you or Russia or France? Surely it does … as fra as rules about war and what is acceptable and what is not.
Plausible deniability works because it’s plausible. Not because it’s true.
I think was fair review https://t.me/two_majors/20839
Posted by: Down South | Mar 20 2024 9:24 utc | 300
So it all depends on who does what.
Do the French soldiers arrive enmass to assist UKR or not?
Does Russia target them or not?
Does Russia attack them or not?
What does Paris do then?
If they are only “Trainers” does that make a difference to Russia, or do they still destroy them in the field of operations of the SMO, or not?
WE are going to find out.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 13:00 utc | 340

Yeehaa, Russia might be getting another tank, a T100 perhaps. Just a T80 with the T14’s unmanned gun? Only 2 crew members needed, the gunner and the driver since there is so much automation? An extra road wheel on the T80? Who knows.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/t100-incoming-tank-production

Posted by: gT | Mar 20 2024 13:02 utc | 341

Surferket | Mar 20 2024 12:43 utc | 337
Exactly. Russia treats the situation as if there are no NATO troops in UKR and then proceeds to destory take out who ever they can find operating equipment or fighting on the ground in UKR. They treat the “mercenaries” no different than URK regulars. Oe so it seems. Mayeb they put more effort into locating them? Could be.
And when these so-called “nato” troops/personel/officers get killed in UKR what do those Nato nations do? Do they attack Russia with cruise missiles? No they do not.
So if when France deploys 2000 troops under the flag in UKR and Russia destroys them as well, why would the French or Nato bother attacking Russia itself?
They were the ones who sent the troops to UKR, not Russia. It’s no different. The response would be the saem. Do nothing, outside of UKR proper …. it’s called a PROXY WAR for a reason you know. Call them trainers, out of uniform mercenaries, or CIA agents what difference does it make? None at all.
Can things change? Yes of course. But until they do, nothing changes.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 13:09 utc | 342

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 13:00 utc | 339
It doesn’t make any difference.
Everyone knows that NATO soldiers are in Ukraine, you can call whatever you want but that is it and they have already been targeted.
Sending a few toushands more will not change anything, plausible denial can works the other way around, maybe Russian could pretend that they didn’t know they were regular France soldiers, and ask France to declare in advance were they regulars are located so they will (not) shoot on them. 😂

Posted by: Mario | Mar 20 2024 13:13 utc | 343

In less than three months…
“The losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the special operation zone since the beginning of the year have exceeded 71 thousand people and 11 thousand weapons, – Shoigu during a meeting of the Board of the Ministry of Defense”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2024 12:19 utc | 331
That is impressive, isn’t it?
SCF today has an article with some interesting bits in it about the incident with Prigozhin:

On June 23, 2023, Prigozhin led thousands of his Wagner fighters in a rebellion which saw him occupy the Russian headquarters of the SMO in Rostov-on-Don, and march on Moscow. While the rebellion was quashed within 24 hours, many of the Wagner fighters said that they had participated only because they were told they would be deploying on to Russian soil, where Wagner was prohibited by law from operating, to defend against further incursions from the RDK.
Information that emerged after Prigozhin’s abortive rebellion showed that the Wagner leader had been in frequent contact with the Ukrainian GUR in the months leading up to his insurrection, and that the RDK attacks were part of a coordinated effort orchestrated by the GUR, designed to weaken and perhaps bring down Putin’s government.
===
The Russian government has assessed that the total strength of the GUR-controlled forces that attacked Russia in the leadup to the presidential election completed on Sunday numbered around 2,500 men, supported by at least 35 tanks and scores of armored vehicles, including a significant number of U.S.-supplied M-2 Bradley IFVs.
The scope and scale of the military operation, which included helicopter-borne forces inserted behind Russian lines, is such that it could not have been accomplished without the knowledge of the C.I.A. Moreover, the tactics and equipment used (helicopter raids, M-2 Bradley vehicles) strongly suggest a more direct role by the C.I.A. in both the planning and training of the mission and the troops involved

The CIA’s Secret War — Using Russian Fascists to Fight Russia

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 20 2024 13:16 utc | 344

Posted by: Surferket | Mar 20 2024 12:43 utc | 337
There are videos of Romanian and Polish mercs who made videos somewhere around Kharkov, claiming they took part in attacking border villages like Grayvoron and Kozani. They probably did take part. And someone claimed Ukraine has 10 or more brigades on the border (albeit with Ukraine ORBAT that could be much less than 10 full brigades).
So the border villages become a battle zone and its possible AFU will occupy some of them. And hence the obviously need to evacuate border villages.
But so far everything seems to indicate AFU has been stopped on the border and uses its remaining MLRS to shoot at civilians around Belgorod. But every time they launch it, it is discovered by reconnaissance enabling to hit them with tactical missiles or drones. At least shorter ranged Vampire and Uragan. Himars is another matter, but it isn’t very frequent.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 20 2024 13:18 utc | 345

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 20 2024 7:23 utc | 282
Peter, where on Substack can I find the fugitives from MoA? If it weren’t for you and a few other stalwarts – bevin, Doctor Eleven, Cabe, DownSouth – I, too, would have given up. I greatly appreciate b’s efforts to keep the forum going but the pollution is getting to be overwhelming and there’s only so much one can take.

Posted by: Mexicana | Mar 20 2024 13:18 utc | 346

Mario | Mar 20 2024 13:13 utc | 342
Yes. What you say could be like that. Maybe it makes no difference, yes, maybe. But it could.
BY sending in flagged French troops under acknowledged direction of Paris into Ukr (not as covert mercenaries) is different, and it makes a difference according to the “rules of war” in what Russia can now do as a result, by declaring France as an active belligerent in the fighting in UKR. (afaik)
But that only makes difference IF Russia acts on it …. but it gives Russia the “legal right” to attack French territory … the same as Ukraine is attacking Russian territory now legitimately under the rules of War …. and SMOs even.
See? No difference. or maybe a difference. We have to wait to find out. I’m easy. Have no skin in this game anymore. Personally if the French do send in troops as suggested, I believe Russia will do nothing .. will avoid targeting them. If they hit them by accident, then the French will do nothing in response.
Same as happened in Syria. Cheers and thanks for the comments.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 13:25 utc | 347

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 20 2024 13:16 utc | 343
If it’s true that the CIA was involved, that’s the biggest fiasco for them since the Bay of Pigs. All those men and material are lost.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Mar 20 2024 13:28 utc | 348

Yes, let’s ignore the ruling class and focus on their confused slaves. One class in the west is responsible and it doesn’t number in the millions.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 19 2024 18:53 utc | 135
I may be willing to cut a lot of slack but not to western shitlibs who get all foamy about Russia while trying their damnest not to see Gaza. If that riles you up, your problem.

Posted by: Satepestage | Mar 20 2024 13:47 utc | 349

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 20 2024 13:16 utc | 343
If it’s true that the CIA was involved, that’s the biggest fiasco for them since the Bay of Pigs. All those men and material are lost.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Mar 20 2024 13:28 utc | 349
Well, I mean, what have they not fucked up? They are good at making messes, destroying governments, installing stooges, but what does that lead to? And that seems to be it.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 20 2024 13:52 utc | 350

Yes it can. With missiles. Anywhere the French are. French military are already located in eastern europe nato nations too. And in the Pacific and Africa.
The big question is would Russia retaliate …. show when they have ever retaliated before? Think Syria losses by US and Turkey and Israel as starters!!!
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 12:32 utc | 335
Russia can’t do that for many reasons. Also the next day their little Syrian base will disappear and they can’t even get there easily now.
After EU Michel announcement of war for the EU meeting this week, Ukros already claim it won’t be FR alone: “French authorities are considering the possibility of sending a European military mission to the regions of Ukraine bordering Belarus in order to free up Ukrainian troops in this area for fighting” – Rada deputy Alexey Goncharenko.
It’s possible that French losers will be the barrier troops for Ukro losers and maybe other nato losers below them (little Baltics, Poland, Romania, Moldova, Czech Rep. also is willing to send, their FM announced). I see Kiev metro is a collection area for kamikaze these days, nato can also perform that task. nato troops don’t have to attack Russia, they can do many other things and control the population. Once they get in, no one will get them out, like in Syria.
And also Armenia will get happy boys from EU ( tass.com/politics/1762683 , tass.com/world/1762389 ) which will never ever leave.

Posted by: rk | Mar 20 2024 13:52 utc | 351

Think Syria losses by US and Turkey and Israel as starters!!!
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 12:32 utc | 335
@ rk | Mar 20 2024 13:52 utc | 352 Did you understand what I said/meant?
I am talking about years ago when the US, Turkey and Israel all inflicted losses on Russian forces in Syria …. more or less “intentionally” and Russia did nothing. They didn’t even get angry or use terse language.
Anyway, fwiw, imo if Russia isn’t retaliating it’s because they consciously choose not to retaliate, not because they cannot. They’ve been regularly not relatilating in Ukraine for 2 years now.
Can we at least wait and see if the French actually send anyone in, before acting out a hypothetical Nato invasion?

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Mar 20 2024 14:05 utc | 352

Posted by: Lysias | Mar 20 2024 0:40 utc | 240
“Unfortunately, the rioters killed several blacks in NYC before the Union Army put the riots down.”
More like a thousand strung up on lamp posts.
I tell people I know that when white people riot, look out.

Posted by: Morongobill | Mar 20 2024 14:05 utc | 353

I’m very curious as to the makeup of this French contingent of troops. Was it plucked from within an existing army division, or was it formed from a selection of soldiers, based on an agenda based criteria.
Baby faced young French soldiers, of the traditional French ethnicity, getting killed might be one thing, while older, grizzled, veterans of Arab and African ethnicities getting killed could be something quite different, at least in the eyes of those voters who follow the news.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Mar 20 2024 14:47 utc | 354

Conscription ought to be a war crime. It is a form of slavery.
It is only the greed and arrogance of the political leadership that requires shanghaiing unwilling men to be sent to war to die, and this is a form of murder.
Soldiers should be volunteers.
If a populace is unwilling to fight, if it is willing to accept defeat instead of death, so be it! Accept defeat and end the war.
Unwilling soldiers will not fight well, and cannot turn defeat into victory. There is no valid moral or ethical case for conscripting such men.
Posted by: ltexpat | Mar 19 2024 10:41 utc | 8
Definitely yes.

Posted by: RB | Mar 20 2024 16:05 utc | 355

Posted by: Honzo | Mar 19 2024 14:55 utc | 62
About indignities of Russian occupation. Remember that except in Galicia more people in Ukraine speak Russian than Ukrainian.

Posted by: RB | Mar 20 2024 16:51 utc | 356

that name sounds familiar
Luttwak–wonder where he comes from

Posted by: chris m | Mar 20 2024 17:24 utc | 357

SCF today has an article (by Scott Ritter) with some interesting bits in it about the incident with Prigozhin: …
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 20 2024 13:16 utc | 345

An interesting article but Ritter’s “source” on Prigozhin is, literally, Ukrainian GRU vouchsafed by The Washington Post.
I get the impression that there’s no group more relieved to see the back of a Prigozhin than Russia’s enemies, especially those belatedly telling tales.

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 20 2024 19:01 utc | 358

Hot Dog Guy played the West like a fucking fiddle. I wonder just how many dipshit fifth columnists in Russia they unearthed with that ploy.
The increasing desperation of the impotent West is evident even by the furious speed and tone of the propaganda posters. They are well aware the Belgorad expeditionary force is being turned into hamburger with remarkable alacrity, before even making it to Russia proper. This was their ‘Nuland surprise’ as though Western actions are not as predictable as the sunrise nowadays.
NATO having shown its overpriced equipment to be dogshit, is desperately trying to save face. Not going to work. Conventionally the West has no cards. Any troops are intended to stop Russia from consolidating as a tripwire. They will be annihilated, and the French mouth breathers and their mastera can decide if Ukraine is worth global thermonuclear war..a war Russia will likely come out in better shape of than the West.
As I said, retards all the way down.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Mar 20 2024 19:27 utc | 359

To filter posters out of your thread, install ublock origin:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin
in the firefox browser.
Then under “My filters” add:
http://www.moonofalabama.org##div.comments-body:has(p.posted:contains(Posted by: POSTERNAME))
Replace “POSTERNAME” with name of the poster you wish to block.
Best copy and then paste the posters name,
in case they have used special characters in their name.
Also, if their name contains apostophes,
put the whole of the contents of the brackets within quotes, e.g.
instead of just:
contains(Posted by: POSTERNAME))
do:
contains(“Posted by: POSTERNAME”))
instead.
Then press Shift-Control-R to refresh the page, and the poster should be gone, or you can just wait until you go to a new page.

Posted by: hh | Mar 20 2024 21:44 utc | 360

I get the impression that there’s no group more relieved to see the back of a Prigozhin than Russia’s enemies, especially those belatedly telling tales.
Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 20 2024 19:01 utc | 359
I don’t believe any of them, the Kiev people, the US media, or the Russian govt. The Russian govt seems the most reliable of them when it comes to news, but I have no doubt they can lie like a trooper when they have reason to. Maskirova and all that. I would say the Russians are better liars, because they are more disciplined about it.
Some parts of that narrative match up with what came out at the time: that he was dickering with GRU, that he lead a “rebellion”, that he lied to get troops to go along; other parts we have only statements from governments and govt controlled media, all of which should be taken with a grain of salt.
It was very convenient for the Kremlin too, how he was dealt with, they got rid of him, they got control of Wagner, they circled the Russian wagons behind Putin, and thwarted another western “plan”, all quick and neat.
The west had reason to be annoyed with him, that is for sure.
I did have the impression at the time that the Russian govt was manipulating the narrative about what happened then. Some things like reports of Prigozhin’s rebels shooting down some Russian aircraft never really got followed up that I am aware of, which annoyed some of the posters here.
Thank you for your comment.
It is never a good idea to get too attached to your theories, not in the world we live in.
I only believe in one thing these days, I believe I will offer the bar a drink on me.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 20 2024 22:22 utc | 361

Feb 14, we will see the beginning of 40-fold increase in artillery shelling of the Donbass that, in conjunction with the 100,000 new UKR troops to the front, bringing the force strength to around 300,000, you would see something more or less indistinguishable from an artillery preparation for an invasion.
Few outside of political / intel / military spheres grasped just how formidable UKR forces had become–the #1 land army in Europe by a long shot, arguably ahead of Turkey’s as well, and in the same numerical ballpark as US land forces.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Mar 19 2024 18:06 utc | 122
It may be faded memory at this point, but the first Bayraktar drone attack on Donbass was September 2021? The quick victory of Azerbaijan over Armenia with the use of drones led the UKrain (NATO led) to buy Turkish and Israeli drones in what they hoped would be a quick victory. Russ made a hard decision not to let that happen. They took a lot of casualties from those drones early on, till they implemented counter measures. Imo the Donbass republics would have been easily defeated without Russ intervention/invasion.
The US upping the proxy war in UKrain imo is retaliation for Russ support of Syria in the failed ISUS overthrow attempt. If there had never been that foreign powered ‘civil’ war Syria would be in much better shape, and more of a restraint on the Gazacide.

Posted by: jopalolive | Mar 21 2024 3:12 utc | 362

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2024 0:06 utc | 235
Well, that was a positive note. Congratulations for your newborn grandson. May the world survive and may he grow as astute as you (and his parents) wish him to be.

Posted by: Constantine | Mar 21 2024 4:39 utc | 363

Considering Lindsey Graham’s vast military knowledge and previous service in the U.S. military, I’m sure he would make an extremely valuable contribution to Ukraine’s war effort if he were to volunteer to serve on the Donbas frontlines.

Posted by: Gregorio | Mar 21 2024 15:31 utc | 364

I’m certain the Ukrainians, particularly the hard-core Banderites understand completely what is happening demographically in the Ukraine. The Ukrainian diaspora hash NOT YET decided to punish its Western backers, as most of the Ukrainian military annihilated to date have been ethnic Russians. The core of the Banderites has not been on the front lines in Donbas except as “Anti-Retreat Forces” since start of SMO. Now that the situation is militarily hopeless, the Banderite youth is being dragged off to the front for slaughter, and THIS the Banderites DON’T LIKE at all. Who is to blame? The Jewish Oligarchs of Ukraine who with their American counterparts funded this nonsense.
When the Banderites make their peace with Russia, and they will, if only for pragmatism’s sake, you can bet your last dollar that the West will suffer a Terrorist Storm at the hands of the Banderites. And they may not do this directly, but by using SouthAmerican / Asian criminal organizations as proxies. We know that much of the arsenal gifted to Ukraine is already floating around in Mexico, the EU, and Africa. There are plenty of people with scores to settle with their former colonial masters.
The Ash-Can-Nazis think they’re SO SMART. Well, maybe too smart by half. Fuck’em.

Posted by: OldFart | Mar 22 2024 12:21 utc | 365

I analyse Ukrainian and Russian losses in my ongoing blog on the war.
I am from India and post original data based analysis using Russian and Western sources.
I also post on Indian national security and business.

Posted by: Rahul Deans | Mar 26 2024 2:46 utc | 366

Outside of Avdiivka, the Russians remain hung up at the same line. Essentially there are a few lakes and some connecting creeks (not even rivers, very small, with tree lines). They have finally taken all of Orlivka, but not the lake and trees directly behind it.
https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1770038030637629625
Tonenka, they haven’t even captured all of the village yet, and it has a lake running through it. Berdiche similar story although they hold even less of that village. And Seminovka is located entirely behind a small lake, so they haven’t even entered that yet.
Anyhow…here we are a month past Avdiivka victory and the incredible war machine can’t clear out some tree lines. Yes…even with FABs. Gotta crank it up if we are going to drive towards the north Dnieper.
(Of course the people making comments like that don’t even look at the map or do the math of distance versus rate of advance. Just like they talk about taking Odessa and seem ignorant that it is east of Kherson, which is completely unthreatened and has a very large river in the way.)
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 19 2024 11:03 utc
Another one didn´t understand how attritional warfare works…Sigh..

Posted by: Mars | Mar 26 2024 7:47 utc | 367