Facekicked | Mar 31 2024 13:09 utc | 1
Putin said they would burn like the others. I was quite surprised at how well they do burn. Certainly better than a lot of the Soviet and Russian tanks. Perhaps something to do with the large tank of kerosene to run the turbine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 13:49 utc | 4

Автор: Arch Bungle | 31 марта 2024 13:32 utc | 2
ATGM “Kornet” with a tandem cumulative warhead. Putin is well aware of this. Now the generals in the West have found out.

Posted by: Виктор | Mar 31 2024 14:07 utc | 6

Виктор@6….seen my fair share of vids where Russian tank goes boom also…..so I’d lay money on any type of tandem ATGM type warhead, (see, Occupied Palestine) regardless of how well the tank is made, makes today’s tanks Full Armoured Wheeled Coffins.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 31 2024 14:18 utc | 8

Sorry if already posted or seen as off-topic, but considering timing and the Ukrainian conflict this seems curious to me. From Le Monde:
“Romania and Bulgaria partially join EU Schengen travel zone”
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/03/30/romania-and-bulgaria-join-eu-schengen-zone-for-air-and-sea-routes_6666861_4.html#
Both countries waited until this Sunday, 31st if March, after a 13-year wait for this. Air and sea (that’s why “partially”) travellers will be benefitted, but not land travellers, as the article says this is due to Austrian veto.
Will we see some pressure over Austria on this specific matter in the near future? Maybe unrelated, but I remember last year someone from NATO claiming for ways to ease the movement of ground troops across Eastern Europe from Schengen space.

Posted by: C Khosta y Alzamendi | Mar 31 2024 14:34 utc | 10

The progress of the war can likely be reduced to grim arithmetic at this point. Russian bombs can kill or disable most defenders in any entrenched position, which then must be filled by Ukrainian replacements to hold the line. Predicting the duration of the war becomes a matter of calculating how long Ukraine can supply replacements at the rate at which Russian bombs can destroy them.

Posted by: HH | Mar 31 2024 14:38 utc | 12

Here it is – the woke EU/Nato agreement.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_210549.htm Some paragraphs though I assume the actual details have not been made public.

Today, we are faced with the gravest threat to Euro-Atlantic security in decades. Russia’s brutal war on Ukraine violates international law and the principles of the UN Charter. It undermines European and global security and stability. Russia’s war has exacerbated a food and energy crisis affecting billions of people around the world….
….Authoritarian actors challenge our interests, values and democratic principles using multiple means – political, economic, technological and military.
We live in an era of growing strategic competition. China’s growing assertiveness and policies present challenges that we need to address….
….In signing this declaration we will take the NATO-EU partnership forward in close consultation and cooperation with all NATO Allies and EU Member States, in the spirit of full mutual openness and in compliance with the decision-making autonomy of our respective organisations and without prejudice to the specific character of the security and defence policy of any of our members. In this context, we view transparency as crucial. We encourage the fullest possible involvement of the NATO Allies that are not members of the EU in its initiatives. We encourage the fullest possible involvement of the EU members that are not part of the Alliance in its initiatives.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 14:47 utc | 14

Posted by: HH | Mar 31 2024 14:38 utc | 12
Ukrainian bodies are the main tool Nato can use in Ukraine. Russia is bombing Ukro positions from far away and are in no particular rush. What matters is Nato is demilitarized in terms of AD and can’t prevent Ukrainians from getting bombed.
The primary thing that influences the war now is mostly whether Russia has enough bombs and delivery vessels, shells, counter battery radars and other stuff to bomb each subsequent defense line of AFU.
Nato expensive big boy toys have limited influence, and sending Nato country bodies to replace Ukrainian bodies make little difference as human composition is same and susceptible to impact across nationalities.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 31 2024 14:57 utc | 16

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 14:26 utc | 9
https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/03/21/us-to-fast-track-abrams-for-ukraine-by-going-with-older-version/
I love the spin, they were well aware that a deployment would result in a captured model, so the downgraded, IIRC USMC models without the HA designation and latest IFCS systems and Blue Force trackers were sent. Same reason the Soviets never exported the T-64/T-80 during the Cold-War, and the tanks they did supply proxies had significant downgrades in armour and firepower (often Czech M models for the T-72) which burned as well as its predecessors, as an IDF tanker remarked.
The MIA2 SEP is markedly superior to the T-90, but the Russian model was NEVER designed to go one to one, just as the M1 was never designed to be sent out in penny packets with no integrated fire support plan. Russian tanks are less survivable with the positioning of the auto-loaders ammo carousels, compared to the separate wet-stowage and blast panels of Western models, but the latest weapons fielded have significant armour over-match capabilities that catastrophic detonations can occur, especially if targeted by top attack munitions or aerial ordnance.
Again the, ‘who’s got a better tank’ debate, is an undertaking for analytical neophytes, the uninformed, or those whose knowledge is WoT deep. Tanks are an embodiment of doctrine, and their efficacy is largely dictated by the proficiency of their crews. Pz-38t’s and Super-Sherman’s took on and bested opponents, who on paper, were significantly superior, but who shoots first often determines who blows up first, not theoretical capabilities. It’s why the NTC training grounds algorithms always erred in the enemies favour, they didn’t want crews complacent, hence their OPFORS formidable reputation at taking on the best and handing them their asses.
The T-14 is a fascinating case of Cold-War design resurrection, that has the potential to lead the way in design, but suffers from being too cutting edge, vis a vis the remote sensor technologies required to replace the tried and tested Mk1 eyeball’s SA.

Posted by: Milites | Mar 31 2024 15:05 utc | 18

Milites | Mar 31 2024 14:00 utc | 5
Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 14:26 utc | 9
A good tech and combat info on Russian armor. Many comments are from students and designers from military academies and bureaus, here.

Posted by: whirlX | Mar 31 2024 15:08 utc | 20

Виктор@6….seen my fair share of vids where Russian tank goes boom also…..so I’d lay money on any type of tandem ATGM type warhead, (see, Occupied Palestine) regardless of how well the tank is made, makes today’s tanks Full Armoured Wheeled Coffins.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 31 2024 14:18 utc | 8
The reason they make such a fuss about these tanks is that the political west promotes the latest tank to enter Ukraine as the new game changing dreadnaught weapon. But because of the effectiveness of the new smart (guided) munitions, tanks are no longer the battle winning weapons. And in the Ukraine environment, the NATO tanks collectively appear to be less well suited for use than the Russian versions. Thus no matter how fancy and expensive they may be, none of the NATO tanks are going to be a game changer.
So far, there appear to be two weapons systems that have changed the course of the war. First came what I call here the smart munitions. They proved so useful that both sides ended up stressing their use, with Russia ahead of the contest in that area. The other weapon system that may be an outcome changer is the new widespread us of guided bombs. The use of these really heavy duty explosive devices eliminates the ability of the other side to put up fortifications that will hold up.

Posted by: Jmaas | Mar 31 2024 15:22 utc | 22

Posted by: rk | Mar 31 2024 15:06 utc | 19
The US produces most of the equipment NATO desires most, with the occasional lip-service to domestic producers for political and economic reasons.
Posted by: whirlX | Mar 31 2024 15:08 utc | 20
Cheers, I’l fire up Google translate and study a site about armoured killing machines on this day that celebrates the triumph of the King of Peace! As my Sister in law says, what’s up with you guys! Another site is the Steel Beasts mil-sim site, fascinating detective work on information that Cold-War intel personnel died trying to discover.
https://www.steelbeasts.com/forum/5-general-discussion/

Posted by: Milites | Mar 31 2024 15:29 utc | 24

Months ago we heard about more Russian recruits being trained.
How is Russia using them? Rotating them into the front lines? Are they being prepared for occupying areas of Ukraine that will soon be part of Russia again?
Western press is simultaneously telling us how the Ukrainian forces are taking back territory. I don’t see much of that, but I don’t see any advances beyond the current line of battle. We know how weakened the Ukie forces are.
Do the Russian generals expect heavy fighting with the Ukies in the near future or a total collapse when Russia is ready to move?

Posted by: Bob in Portland | Mar 31 2024 15:30 utc | 26

Dmitri Kovalevich has a fascinating article on the Russian Election, as seen from Ukraine. The details on the process by which Judges for the Constitutional Court are chosen tells you most of what you need to know about a society so corrupt that it is no longer conscious of being so.
“…Ukrainian judges benefit from unthinkable prices for real estate. One judge candidate for the CCU indicated that he lives in an apartment of 43 square meters (420 square feet) which he purchased for eight hryvnia (20 U.S. cents). Another judge candidate, Alexander Radutny, indicated in his declaration that he owns a house, two apartments, and two vehicle garages, and for each one he paid one hryvnia (three U.S. cents)….
“…It should be noted that judicial positions in Ukraine since the late 1980s have been considered hereditary or for sale. They do not necessarily require that the persons holding them have any specialized legal training and knowledge. All legal formulations are prepared by assistants and secretaries, who themselves may have been excellent students at law faculties but may never be able to acquire a judicial position for themselves…”
https://www.defenddemocracy.press/the-presidential-election-in-russia-through-the-prism-of-ukraine/

Posted by: bevin | Mar 31 2024 15:46 utc | 28

Is it the tank or the tanker?
There is a reason the Russians have been so good in Ukraine, and Syria before that.
I believe it is not all technological. It is a matter of the intentions and motivations. See the Houthi and the absolute devastation that they are waging on the global economy, many of whom are illiterate and mincing about the desert in sandals.
The West will never admit anyone bested them, and certainly not in a domain they argued is irrelevant and meaningless.
To them, a country is just paperwork, not a shared history, language, and values.
That’s how the Taliban wins. That is how the Houthi win. That is how a “gas station with nukes” can stymie their tactics, technology, and training.
Underestimate the power of belief (in anything) at one’s peril.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 31 2024 15:55 utc | 30

LoveDonbass | Mar 31 2024 15:55 utc | 30
Culture of a country, of a people, does play a huge role.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 16:20 utc | 32

Hey man. Too many of ya are making a mountain out of 31 Tanks. 31 Tanks is a joke.
31 tanks is nothing. You cannot make much of a judgement based on 31 Tanks with neophyte crews. It shows how weak the West has become in force and brainpower to think that 31 tanks will do anything significant.
I was in Desert Storm with the Marines and our single Regiment had 73 Tanks. 17 Tanks in a single company back then. Most of the Iraqi Tanks were dug in like pill boxes and after one or two were taken out the rest of the crews abandoned ship. It was mostly Type 59, T-55s, T-62s, and a single unit, the 80th Independent Tank Brigade that had T-72s.
7th Corps, the main Force of the US Army that attempted to cut off the Republican Guard, but which because the timid advance of its Commander Gen. Fred Franks, it averaged 2.5 mph in the advance.
It was however a Superb Formation, probably the strongest in the history of Planet Earth? It alone had just shy of 1500 M1 tanks. Its troops had trained for decades to face down a Soviet Invasion.
Supported by 2200 Combat Aircraft nothing could have stopped it. But it moved so slow that the Iraqis got away and only rear guard unts were destroyed.
From wiki: ”
In the Gulf War, VII Corps was probably the most powerful formation of its type ever to take to the battlefield. Normally, a corps commands three divisions when at full strength, along with other units such as artillery of various types, corps-level engineers and support units. However, VII Corps had far more firepower under its command. It consisted of 1,487 tanks, 1,384 infantry fighting vehicles, 568 artillery pieces, 132 MLRS, 8 missile launchers, and 242 attack helicopters.[11] It had a total troop strength of 146,321 troops.[12″
”

Posted by: Dc9loser | Mar 31 2024 16:25 utc | 34

Potentially the start of the next American Revolution, with potentially the same impact on the world as the first.
Posted by: Milites | Mar 31 2024 16:24 utc | 33
Could be but I suspect American glory days have been and gone. I look at the split in the US now. Christian rural vs the woke. There is the so called bible belt, yet there is the the Christian Zionism which is big. I’m not sure that when they have finished their dustup, which is still to come, that they will have much to offer the world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 16:35 utc | 36

“Posted by: Milites | Mar 31 2024 14:00 utc | 5
Thank you, yet again. You are one of the main reasons I stick around this senior Bolshevik retirement home. Never miss one of your posts. Always learn from them.”
Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Mar 31 2024 15:30 utc | 25
Agreed.

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 16:45 utc | 38

Milites
I was thinking about my reply to LoveDonbass along the lines of culture plays a big part in deciding a conflict.
US culture? There’s the pilgrims, The limited democracy yet did away with hereditary sovereigns, free and taken from the savages, many European immigrants, freedom, since the revolution always growing, expanding, always wars big and small, Monroe doctrine and many other doctrines, the socialism for the massive infrastructure building that turned the US into a superpower and gave post war America the best living standards in the world, the cold way McCarthyism that screamed commies, commies at anything of a socialist nature, woodstock morphing into woke…
I can’t see anything in US history/culture that would bring it to a place were it could offer some vision for the world that would in anyway rival the vision Russia and China have for a multi-polar world. And that vision is taking off, we see it occurring, Russia and China leading by example.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 17:19 utc | 40

Wow, some good conversation.
A question in my head for awhile. The RF KA-52’s were hunting quite successfully in the south for a bit, but appears to have slowed dramatically. I come up with possible portions of answers, the increase in range (and possibly CEP) of Lancet, the preservation of the platform (helicopters need 10 hrs maint for every hour in air, air frame only good for so many hours) and the usage of FABS. Also if RF was going to change tactics and EW counter-methods, that could be saved -banked for later away from prying OTAN eyes.

Posted by: paxmark1 | Mar 31 2024 17:31 utc | 42

Putin preferring Biden to Trump? He said that in an interview or presser not long back.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 17:29 utc | 41
While Putin is truthful most of the time, this comment is really suspect, because it could so easily be misinformation put out to influence American politics. Favored by Putin is a negative. Not that I know who he favors, nor is it matter of concern for me.

Posted by: Jmaas | Mar 31 2024 17:49 utc | 44

The RF KA-52’s were hunting quite successfully in the south for a bit, but appears to have slowed dramatically.
Posted by: paxmark1 | Mar 31 2024 17:31 utc | 42
Helicopters are very expensive devices that are easily shot down by a whole array of air defense devices. Thus they will always be used with hesitation. The question to ask is why did the Russians think it was safe when they do use their KA-52’s when they did, because hesitation is to be expected. I doubt that it can be predicted by outsiders for want of detail information.

Posted by: Jmaas | Mar 31 2024 17:55 utc | 46

Posted by: Dc9loser | Mar 31 2024 16:25 utc | 34
Thanks for that insight. Talked to an RAF officer, seconded to the 101st Airborne, who was being given a tour of their aviation combat brigade, halfway down the flight line he realised he’d seen more helicopters that the RAF, Army Air Corps and Navy combined, possessed. I don’t think some posters truly appreciate the combat power the US Army can still wield, let alone the other services, or the logistical resources they can call upon.
As for the Iraqi Army in DS, I remember reading that during the Army’s post-op research for their 73 Eastings Battle project (even included a virtual simulation of the events) they discovered a large number of Iraqi crews had taken the batteries from their AFV’s to provide light in their make-shift shelters, whilst they cooked fried tomatoes! They also found the M1’s APFSDS rounds could penetrate the export T-72’s after passing through the sand berms and that many of their carousels were loaded with home grown sabot penetrators, crudely machined from steel. Again, an example of real world experience being not as analytically useful as one might expect. Similar to the IDF kills on Syrian T-72’s, touted by the MSM as proof of the Soviet designs vulnerability, being revealed to sometimes occur at 200m or less.
Franks was likened to a modern Mark Clark, though some suspected the Corps tardiness was by design, so that Iraq would not collapse after the eviction of its troops from Kuwait. Rather like ‘mistakenly’ allowing Iraqi helicopters to ignore the post-war no fly zones. Gosh, who have thought the Mi-24’s would have been used to crush the various uprisings that occurred after the Mother of all Defeats…
I do laugh when Dima and his ilk claim that Russia launched a big armoured assault and show the equivalent of a reduced FSE skirmishing. Try a 100+ echeloned wave of MBT’s, with 30+IFV’s, backed by a Regimental artillery group, with Army/Corps rocket artillery and 203mm assets and a regiment of attack helicopters! This is large scale skirmishing that few can draw any definite conclusions from, apart from the fact Russia is winning and Ukraine are losing.

Posted by: Mi;ites | Mar 31 2024 18:04 utc | 48

Culture of a country, of a people, does play a huge role.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 16:20 utc | 32
Dan Castle, former US Marine, agrees with you:
https://youtu.be/meCPCfjf7ZA
I do too.

Posted by: blueswede | Mar 31 2024 18:13 utc | 50

31 Tanks is a joke.
Posted by: Dc9loser | Mar 31 2024 16:25 utc | 34
That number itself is the joke: The fact that despite all the supposed productive power of Western capitalism only this feeble quantity could be provided in a war so crucial to western interests.
Even if these tanks were truly superior to anything the Russians produced it’s clear that the supply system that spawned them is a failure, therefore the tank as a system of systems is a failure.
Contrast that with the Russian tank: as a “system of systems” it works flawlessly to achieve military aims, with no dependence on the quality of a particular tank design but rather on the combined effect of strategy, tactics, logistics and economics.
Even if 310 Abrams were sent the result would be the same. Why? Because the system effects will not be copied. Neither the strategy nor the logistics train nor the economics would be synchronized.
3100? … Same, probably worse. A huge logistics burden, a huge, visible target.
So the conclusion is that no amount of Abrams, unadapted to Ukrainian conditions, unsupported by a superior logistics system would work against the Russian military.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 31 2024 18:22 utc | 52

Predicting the duration of the war becomes a matter of calculating how long Ukraine can supply replacements at the rate at which Russian bombs can destroy them.
Posted by: HH | Mar 31 2024 14:38 utc | 12
If they sacrifice their entire 18-26 generation they can buy a whole extra year…. What for ?

Posted by: Newbie | Mar 31 2024 18:29 utc | 54

Mi;ites | Mar 31 2024 18:04 utc | 48
Macgreggor led at 73 eastings and has spoken about it. I think there was somebody higher than him that is mentioned but from what I can make of it he led the training and was in a tank there commanding. Ritter, a cold war marine – hands on behind the lines stuff apparently in Iraq 1.0
Cold war large scale nato training and formations just doesn’t cut it for this war. Ritter talked to a Chechen general when he was in Russia and spoke about it a bit.
As we have seen, Russian strategy is about chopping down the enemy, not taking or holding territory. One of those american formations could attack and the Russians would chop it down in a fighting retreat then come forwards again.
The mighty Nato offensive to the south, very much battle of Kursk. Suicidal but the attack towards Sevastopol was ordered by the comedians anglo masters.
Kursk was some time in the making, Germany building assult forces, Soviets building lines of defence in depth.
A lot of things from MMA can be taken to the higher level and greatly simplifies the complex planning and so forth. The basic concept is what counts. Geo foreman in later life talking about the rope a dope fight and Ali. Foreman said, if I had fought another way, he would have beat me anther way.
Concepts – the younger Emelianenko, though not as good as his older brother, was a standout in MMA in the way he chopped down opponents while in full speed reverse – fast retreating from an attack and the opponent would be unconscious on the floor.
But your mighty American formations – Macgregor and Ritter, both combat veterans do not agree.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 31 2024 18:38 utc | 56

@ Old Sovietologist | Mar 31 2024 18:22 utc | 53
I think this explains the matter in part, but not entirely. To your point: If in the West “men are from Mars, women are from Venus,” then boys who don’t identify with Mars aren’t going to be, well, martial. But there are exceptions even within Western cultures. There have been valorous gay soldiers, keeping that part of their identity under wraps throughout most of Western history of course; and anyone who’s been around drag queens long enough knows that they’re not only not averse to fighting, but they fight dirty. (The Stonewall rioters were mostly drag queens; the gays were looking for the — pardon the pun — back door to the bar.)
I think it’s primarily the result of the cult of Western individualism and the decaying cohesion of Western societies, which I can sum up in two questions:
1. Why should I have to risk dying for my country?
2. What makes my country worth risking my life for?
It wouldn’t even occur to someone raised in a culture that inspires deep identification and devotion to as much as ask either of these questions.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 31 2024 18:41 utc | 58

S-300 launcher struck south of Kharkov (60km from border).
https://twitter.com/DrazaM33/status/1774480936693834075

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 31 2024 18:48 utc | 60

Is it possible to use FABS from a helicopter?

Posted by: vargas | Mar 31 2024 18:53 utc | 62

Yes, the US Carrier Battle Groups are far powerful than what the Russian or Chinese Navies can muster combined.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | Mar 31 2024 18:38 utc | 57
One missile and all sink in first 30min, at the same time. Is there a single post where you don’t lie? Old Ukrologist is a much better name for you. Or without k.

Posted by: rk | Mar 31 2024 18:56 utc | 64

Color me confuzzled, is the AFU air defense in Odessa the most deserving, on paper, of medals from Russia? Or is it better for that Governor to declare a monumental mishap had occurred, rather than concede the devastating effectiveness of the Russian coalition’s attack?

… hundreds of thousands in Ukraine’s Odesa region were left without power Sunday after debris from a downed Russian drone caused a blaze at an energy facility, Gov. Oleh Kiper said. Some 170,000 homes suffered power outages as a result of the attack, said Ukraine’s largest private electricity operator, DTEK.

https://www.britannica.com/news/316419/de446fa5182eb4b1480783b402b01d9b

Posted by: Babel-17 | Mar 31 2024 18:59 utc | 66

L aviation russe a détruit le pont de chemin de fer de kourakhove, c est une blague ou quoi car il y a longtemps qu il aurait dut être détruit !!!

Posted by: Dubourg | Mar 31 2024 19:08 utc | 68

I was referring to the video with the lancet, the latest one.
But I’m sure the kornet has much the same effect!
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 31 2024 18:07 utc | 49
Some models of the Lancet have a “shock core”. You understand me, if you understand shaped charges.

Posted by: Виктор | Mar 31 2024 19:15 utc | 70

re: Jmaas | Mar 31 2024 17:49 utc | 44
“While Putin is truthful most of the time, this comment is really suspect, because it could so easily be misinformation put out to influence American politics.”
Actually, he is truthful. Having US falling apart because of the demented half-corpse in charge is definitely preferable to Russia than having somebody with a functioning brain at the helm.

Posted by: averros | Mar 31 2024 19:17 utc | 72

If we end up in a major war in eastern Europe, our combat ability will be limited by logistics
Its not WW II when the US could supply Europe with convoys while fighting semi submersible Uboats. Now they have to tangle with real nuclear powered submarines that are fast, quiet, do not have to surface, and can launch hypersonic missiles against surface vessels from afar and then move out of the area. It would be a titanic struggle and it was so with the Uboats for a time.
Cracking the German naval codes helped as well as building out pocket carriers to project aircraft into the Atlantic. I am sure all the powers of current space technology and the like will be deployed. Never in history has two nuclear armed powers come to blows in full and I fail to understand how they would not use nuclear weapons at some point in such a conflict.
NATO will never admit they were wrong. The only light at the end of the tunnel is Nuland getting sacked. Her giving that last press conference in Ukraine with no one backing here up at the podium is a signal that things might be changing.
The palty aid to Ukraine in the current defense package with aid being held back by the arch Zionist speaker of the house makes me feel like something is changing.
I think NATO is kicking the can down the road for 20 years but will keep the project simmering until they run out of Ukrainians.

Posted by: circumspect | Mar 31 2024 19:22 utc | 74

“April 20, 2022 was an epochal day. On this day, China officially released footage of the launch of the latest [?] anti-ship missile YJ-21”
https://en.topwar.ru/198293-komu-grozjat-giperzvukovye-rakety-kitaja.html

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 19:26 utc | 76

Is it possible to use FABS from a helicopter?
Posted by: vargas | Mar 31 2024 18:53 utc | 62
It is much easier to use an airplane. It is necessary to gain an altitude of about 10 km.

Posted by: Виктор | Mar 31 2024 19:27 utc | 78

WRT tanker debates — which metal behemoth is better, LOL.
All of them are becoming irrelevant. They are vulnerable to cheap fixed-wing loitering munitions like Lancet which can be used without much danger to the operators.
The purpose of tanks is breaching enemy defensive lines which would be hard to attack by infantry without heavy manpower losses. The same can be done by much smaller unmanned ground drones. These do not need to be heavily armored, as they do not need to be protected from large guns. They are MUCH cheaper. They have much lower profile, and so can hide much easier. They are much lighter and have easier time crossing muddy/soft terrain. They are disposable, and thus can be sent on suicide missions without second thought.
Oh, and we already see these on the real battlefield.

Posted by: averros | Mar 31 2024 19:33 utc | 80

Milites | Mar 31 2024 19:33 utc | 79

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Mar 31 2024 18:47 utc | 59
Me thinks you do project too much.

I fart in your general direction ! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries !
About as cogent an analysis on your tedious list of garbage as I can be bothered to give !
P.S.

“Milites” = “Vastus Animus”

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Mar 31 2024 19:45 utc | 82

Azaz Border Town of Kidnappings and John McCain
Breaking news: Seven dead after car bomb tears through market in Azaz
Chechen hotbed in Syria …
The Northern Storm Brigade: It’s History, Current Status, and Why It Matters | 18 Mar 2014 |
https://www.joshualandis.com/blog/northern-storm-brigade-history-current-status-matters-chris-looney/
Jaysh al-Muhajereen was formed during the summer of 2012 by Abu Omar al-Shishani, a Chechen [from the Pankisi Valley in north-east Georgia] who later would become the northern commander for ISIS. In March of 2013, it merged with Jaysh Muhammad and another group to form Jaysh al-Muhajereen wa-Ansar (the Army of Emigrants and Helpers) under al-Shishani’s leadership. After its forces were consolidated, al-Shishani reportedly controlled over 1,000 fighters. He would later leave and join ISIS, taking some of his fighters with him.
A liquidation in Berlin by the FSB
For security reasons, Zelimkhan Khangoshvili first went to Ukraine, and later moved to Germany and lived in Berlin.
Zelimkhan Khangoshvili is a participant in the Russia-Chechnya war. He was one of the field commanders, which is why Moscow had announced a search for him. Khangoshvili lived in Georgia for years under the name and surname of Tornike Kavtarashvili. His nickname is “Zelo Dishni”. He also figured in the Lafankuri special operation.
President of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili told local residents of Lapankuri village that nobody would ever renew Lekianoba, the meeting was closed for media.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/is-georgia-terrorist-state/

Posted by: Oui | Mar 31 2024 20:01 utc | 84

Old Sovietologist | Mar 31 2024 18:38 utc | 57
The US Navy is playing on the thin edge here, as by sheer missile capacities of China and Russia, they can loose the entire fleets – gone in a day or two.
By now, I am convinced that NATO is squealing about its depleted ammo storage, but I doubt that is the real case. They have a lot of hardware, but still not enough to be comfortable, as they used to be with Iraqis, Afghans and such. Nobody sane wants to die against Russia or fight them in any way. A pile of hardware, and scarce troops able to operate it and survive in a combat zone a bit longer. So if they start a direct confrontation they will lose badly, but they will never stop, unless pacified like Americans did to Japan.
If not, a defeated NATO leftovers will wait out pursuing some new tech breakthrough where they can assume dominance. But that is all a wet dream. From a personal experience, American robotic science is like: make unrealistic pitch with crazy visuals and the hypno design, get an amazing grant from DARPA, tinkle your stuff without any progress and paint it in a cammo, a day before DARPA comes to check. They do come with some results, but very few, be it bi-pedial gait, stable grip and a fast motoric rect, but from employing this ground AI dronery, as a capable fighting force, it’ll take a few generations of hardware, software and production efforts to make it sustainable and renewable to a capacities that a modern hi-power combat space requires. Not too sophisticated ground combat robo platforms we see on the current battlefield, as in testing mode. Those are future resource meat grinders and are are a triple edged sword, too. As human in the loop is still necessary.
Whatever brazen plan NATO has on intervening, to save a bit of the Ukrainian Black Sea, it will fail. The ideas of the Black Sea fleet being defeated and withdrawn are stupid. By liberating the entire Ukrainian coast plus the Danube Delta, Russia enlarges good 200 km of the TBS coast, adds 1500+ square kilometers of the sea surface, has the biggest control of the international waters in the Black Sea, gets hilly places to peek deep down the Danube and deep into Romania. That ends the war for NATO. Romanian and the Bulgarian Black Sea coasts are harmless, very open, flat and offer far less possibilities to defend, than Normandy ever did for the Germans, so they know this and would keep quiet. Erdo has an eye on Odessa Oblast, sure. He hopes to get a foot in, when NATO fails to protect it. We will see how low he can go and how far Russia would let him. He hopes for the Turkish paw, on the Danube.
As for the conventional ground war, minus the nukes and bio-chemical warheads, the current Russian capacity, expertise and experience wins that flat on. To catch up, one needs at least 3 month under the shells and incoming enemy air attacks, drones etc. to be able to operate efficiently in a combat. By that time they will have no human capacity to fight – “when the brigade was the size of a platoon”.
In any case I am not worried too much. Russia anticipated a hundreds of other important things around this conflict, including combat readiness, psychological shape and state of the populations and such stuff. And they made plans out of it revising those constantly.
I think every option is covered, all looking bad to pretty bad, for the West. Not that they are rosy and pink for Russia, but the time might tell more.

Posted by: whirlX | Mar 31 2024 20:26 utc | 86

Arch Bungle@52….we may well find out….USNATO have about 3500 tanks taking part in War Games along the Russian border. With the advent of drones, tanks will become mainly infantry support vehicles.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 31 2024 20:29 utc | 88

Posted by: whirlX | Mar 31 2024 20:26 utc | 86
Human in the loop… that ship has long sailed

Posted by: Newbie | Mar 31 2024 20:34 utc | 90

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 19:26 utc | 76
When it’s operated under real combat conditions and the firing crew have earned the Chinese equivalent of a Bravo Zulu then you can take a victory lap, until then theoretical performances under test conditions are dangerous foundations on which to build analytical assumptions.
Posted by: UWDude | Mar 31 2024 19:12 utc | 69
They also cause huge strains on existing personnel, especially specialist branches where the hormone therapy causes long periods of absences, or they are unable to perform their primary role, when nominally present. Transgenders were traditionally thought of as suffering from a unique form of autism that surfaced in body dysmorphia, now they are regarded as the progressive’s shock troops in the struggle to revolutionise societal norms, displacing women, minorities and homosexuals, who traditionally were used and often exploited in that role.
Posted by: malenkov | Mar 31 2024 19:35 utc | 81
The US and UK militaries, who’ve fully embraced woke priorities are struggling to achieve two thirds of their recruitment targets, so the near-future is pretty easy to predict. What happens in the soon to be PWP (Post-Woke Period) is anybody’s guess, though an over-reliance on overly elevating and appealing to macho culture brings its own set of problems regarding the efficacy of a fighting unit. I’d like to think that society, if left alone, can gradually improve its social attitudes organically, certainly the forced compliance model has been immensely damaging for minorities of every type, but I think that’s by design, not an inherent flaw in the model.
Posted by: averros | Mar 31 2024 19:33 utc | 80
The tank, as a platform, has evolved greatly from its intended historical role, for the simple reason it has no battlefield substitute. It’s also faced down and beaten its many historical critics who’ve used contemporary conflicts to call for its abolition; however; each time it’s bounced back, more powerful than the last iteration. Similarly armour was regarded as an outmoded form of personnel protection, upon the introduction of modern rifled small arms, today soldiers wear vests equivalent in weight to a medieval jack and regularly carry twice as much weight as a man wearing full plate harness.
Tanks are here to stay, nothing matches their capabilities or adaptive potential, as the SMO has proved, yes you can fly an FPV drone at over 100kph to a range of 6-10 Km, but a tank can fire a projectile out to 4km travelling at ten times the speed. It can also have the capability of firing NLOS munitions, be a mobile armoured drone launcher and ground/repeater station, equipped with full-spectrum, adaptive chameleon camouflage and the next generation of electro-shielded composite armours and active arrays. A drone can just be a drone, a tank can be so much more.
Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Mar 31 2024 19:45 utc | 82
Point to the doll and tell me where Mr Milites touched you.

Posted by: Milites | Mar 31 2024 20:54 utc | 92

Im not sure if you could make it more clear you worked with tanks and really like tanks if you tattooed it on your arm. That said, your romantization of armored vehicles doesn’t make tanks relevant in future conflicts. Tanks have been around about a century..not quite as good as Tercios, but close.
The only constant in life is change. I agree the roles a tank fills on the battlefield are still required, but a tank is now like a half answer to all those questions instead of a full stop, and never are tanks going to be cost effective..

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Mar 31 2024 21:01 utc | 94

I believe the Belgian army has gone from 100 tanks in 1991 to 0 tanks today. Belgium is a NATO country. Does this mean this policy was okayed at NATO HQ?

Posted by: Passerby | Mar 31 2024 21:07 utc | 96

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Mar 31 2024 20:34 utc | 91
On a side note, I think the US learned a lot from the Russians about disguising, not telegraphing your capabilities, the SMO has shown them to be quite skilled practitioners of Maskirovka with fries. Either that or somebody bothered to read a book about the deception operations run by their WW2 predecessors.

Posted by: Mi;ites | Mar 31 2024 21:12 utc | 98

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Mar 31 2024 21:01 utc | 93
Stop, or I’ll digress about the Swedish revolution in pike and shot warfare and the fact that Haselrig’s Lobsters wore three quarter plate in the ECW. Tanks are an interest, true, but I’m not a tread-head, my real passion is in their progenitor, the knight and its evolution, whose path somewhat mirrors that of the vehicle that replaced it. I like your literary analogy, yes, I agree, but they’re only a half-answer at the moment, or more accurately the question needs to be reframed. As for cost, few weapon systems are, the same way that few conflicts have been, especially in disrupted lives and wasted potential.
There is one final point. Whilst sitting down for tea, with the then arms and armour curator of the Tower of London, I was asked a question. ‘Why was it that mail armour remained in use for so long?’ Her answer, validated later by soldiers, was that militaries are inherently conservative organisations because errors in judgement cost lives, so there is a tendency to stick to to tried and tested, even if it theoretically is less effective than its replacement. Drones might replace tanks, but an over-reliance on them might lead to unforeseen disasters, that could have been mitigated by a more traditional force mix, something Ukraine is increasingly facing.

Posted by: Milites | Mar 31 2024 21:38 utc | 100