I beg to differ. When Ukraine falls, US/NATO will most definitely have suffered a defeat.
Posted by: GW | Mar 8 2024 1:04 utc | 130
“The US will not have suffered a defeat, because the war was about the conquest of EUROPE, not Russia. NATO will not have suffered a defeat, because NATO has always been an instrument of US control over Europe, and this conflict is putting an end to the illusion that NATO members were ‘allies’ of equal stature and interest. NATO is a club for minions of the US. Since it will continue to exist, and continue to perform the function of keeping Europe under control for the US Hegemon, it won’t have been defeated.
Down the road, NATO may come apart and be replaced by some other tool of US Hegemony, depending on the narrative needs of the US ruling class, but right now it is very useful in creating the fear of a Russian threat, necessitating sacrifice by ruling class and the imposition of more authoritarianism to protect Freedom, Democracy, and European Values.”
Posted by: Honzo | Mar 8 2024 3:13 utc | 151
Have to agree with Honzo on this issue.
The only way this Empire aggression can make any sense is that its secret goal is to destroy the European economy and further tighten its vassalage to the Empire.

Posted by: canuck | Mar 8 2024 11:51 utc | 203

“The US will not have suffered a defeat, because the war was about the conquest of EUROPE, not Russia.”
That was the second prize or consolation prize of the Ukrainian Gambit. The jackpot was regime change in Moscow and subjugation and/or destruction of Russia.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 8 2024 12:04 utc | 205

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Mar 7 2024 14:45 utc | 6

Regarding the near miss on Zelensky and the Greek PM, Russia should issue something like this as a statement:
“All of Ukraine is an active warzone. If Western politicians visit any city, Kiev, Odessa, or Lvov, they assume the risk of death and should plan accordingly.”

right !!!
freely adapted from Volker Pispers
–> obama’s drone death list; publicly available
“…and if you stand stupidly next to it then you are a colateral damage…yes, what kind of bad behavior do you have, you can see the list”
instead of the list of obama’s threatening targets, a normal thinking person might assume that odessa is often attacked

Posted by: ghiwen | Mar 8 2024 12:07 utc | 207

What is really syriking
What is really striking is that the secondary objective has far exceeded expectations.
The servility of the subservient European rag dolls is simply mind-boggling.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 8 2024 12:08 utc | 209

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 7 2024 18:11 utc | 37

…………………….
Zero reaction from the Kremlin once again. They are too busy denying they tried to assassinate Zelensky (looks like they really didn’t) instead of working on taking out the NATO leaders.

honestly, what do you expect from such an idiot?

Posted by: ghiwen | Mar 8 2024 12:22 utc | 211

The US/NATO are not in any way scared of Moscow or their nukes. This is how it looks to me at present.
Posted by: snake | Mar 8 2024 4:14 utc | 160
They’re scared enough not to send mass troops into Ukraine. They dance around the edges so they have plausible deniability but stop short of overt actions. That’s not going to change anytime soon. Americans are more worried about the border than they are about the fate of Ukraine.

Posted by: James M. | Mar 8 2024 12:25 utc | 213

Ok, so, executive summary for rubes: Nulands’s a moderate, Tucker’s not a CIA game piece, no A-50 shoot-downs, and the fact that you can’t disprove any of that is all that counts.

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 8 2024 12:28 utc | 215

Hey Shadowbanned!
I want to hear your specific take on something. I’m not deeply au fait with the real history of Soviet disintergration. So answer me this specific question.
If Ukraine has for so long been an integral part of Russia, how and why did Gorbachev and his Duma let Ukraine “escape” and go independent in 1991-2? Why did Ukraine, as a Soviet borderland, think it had the right to exist outside of Russia? Why didn’t someone (Gorbachev?) draw the ethnic Russian Donbass borders back into Russia, or even hold a referendum to re-divide the country? And why didn’t Crimea stay as Russia? No wonder the present day Ukies think they’re getting their country stolen.
And btw, you can’t blame Putin for it either. 🙂 He’s actually trying to fix it … in case you haven’t noticed in your fixated hate for him. Imo, he’s actually been the best thing for Russia since the last Tzar.
Keep it reasonably brief and to my point, no 1000 year history lesson, or I’ll go back to ignoring you 50% of the time 🙂 And don’t forget, there’s lots of Russian historians here to correct you if you lay on the bullshit.
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 10:19 utc | 187

Who said Gorbachev and the people around him had any intention of preventing the collapse? Or of redrawing borders to make the break up less problematic?
Take the PMR as an example — it tried to secede from Moldova before the USSR even collapsed because it wanted to preempt Moldova seceding from the USSR. Then Gorbachev tried to push them back into Moldova.
As to how the republics seceded, you need to understand one very important aspect of the late USSR — it was undergoing a process of feudalization. Rotation of elites had ended and both the economy as a whole and the territory of the union were parceled out into fiefdoms.
Under Stalin if you were incompetent and corrupt you got shot and replaced with someone young and hungry who was neither of those things.
Under Khrushchev you didn’t get shot, you got moved laterally to some other position. With obvious negative effects.
But then the Brezhnev stagnation set in, and you weren’t even moved laterally. You were not touched at all, except in truly egregious situations (e.g. the Uzbek cotton scandal, and note that this one only blew up once Brezhnev died, during the brief period when Andropov had taken over) and that enabled the process of feudalization to develop.
So towards the late 1980s you had:
1) Local feudals, typically a bit older, who didn’t want to be under Moscow’s thumb and wanted to loot freely.
2) Young ambitious nomenklaturchiks with liberal leanings who were dreaming of abandoning communism, converting political power into ownership of state property, and becoming capitalists
3) Various smugglers, speculants, scammers, nascent street gangs, etc. people involve in the grey economy who were in fact in the best position to become capitalists.
It’s the wicked mixture of these groups that catalyzed the collapse, and these people were driven by pure greed, with zero thought about the long term future.
In the case of Ukraine, nobody was really thinking about how there will be a big war 25-30 years down the line because the Banderites will take over and resume their reign of terror. All those people had on their minds was how to get rich. Who cares about stupid ancient feuds like that?
And that continued inside the Kremlin well past 2014 even. The idea was literally that our oligarchs and their oligarchs will somehow figure it out and we won’t have to invade. Yeah, sure, how did that work out…
Were there sober forward thinking people who saw what was happening and where things are headed? You bet. Did anyone listen to them? Of course not, there were literally tens of trillions of real wealth to be divided. Who had time for such nonsense?
P.S. If you look at it more broadly, there is a very strong suspicion that in those last few years nationalism was deliberately stoked by some factions in the state structures in order to trigger the collapse. For example, the Sumgait pogrom is what kick starts the war between the Azeris and the Armenians, and that happens in February 1988. Yes, that early. Do some research on the details about it, it will be too long to go over it here. There is the even earlier episode with the unrest in Kazakhstan in late 1986 that is deeply suspicious too.
Who instigated these events and for what purpose I have no idea, I have no inside info on that level. I do know that the KGB was deeply concerned about the growing Turkic population in Central Asia (and Azerbaijan) dating back to the 1960s and 1970s (if the USSR had not broken up, it would be 50% Muslim and Turkic today, with the two not being exactly, but mostly overlapping) and had all kinds of crazy schemes to assimilate those populations. So clearly there were people working to prevent the collapse. But it looks like others were working in the opposite direction.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 12:41 utc | 217

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 12:12 utc | 207
Nuclear war is no good.
No one will win. But Russia will survive and get out on top.
First off abt western submarine deterence:
No western SSBN leaves harbour without being shadowed by nuclear attack subs (Russia, China, N. Korea).
Russian nuclear drones Poseidon are weapons directly targeting western SSBNs despite being famed as tsunami makers – which is useless. They also shadow western subs and will be detonated in close vicinity first thing in nuclear conflict. – yes there will be tsunamis though, especially in Cheasapeake Bay, Kings Bay, Brittany, at the Clyde … not limited to.
Additionally a lot of western nuke stuff obsolete unmaintained properly – sloppiness + bribery + pork – wont work on launch.
Russia has shelters for population in all its big cities.
Russia has the best AD on the planet.
Coupled with best EW.
Moreover they would launch first EMPs over North Am and possibly EU as well as severing all underoceanic cables and pipelines – underwater nuclear devices already in place waiting for detonation.
Degrading nuclear retaliation intensity.
Attacks on satellites likely too.
Russia ressources are plenty and scattered over the biggest world country – hard to target all.
Do not wish to see that day, it could very well happen soon.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Mar 8 2024 12:45 utc | 219

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 12:12 utc | 207
Lmao and in awe at your well-thought-out first strike nuclear war. The details you’ve taken the trouble to calculate out are amazing. And being on first name acronymic terms with so many different missiles! I’m impressed. But you really should include a supplementary glossary for we simple folk who still get NATO and NAFO mixed up.
With all the time and trouble you’ve put-in to such scenaria, it’s no wonder you advocate so keenly for the big bang! Ya don’t want to waste all that planning. Have you shared this all with Gerasimov? He may not have looked at it in those ways.
You don’t work in the MoD do you? Although some days I wonder if you attend a kindergarten for retards. What a funny fella you are. Is it drugs, alcohol, or just what they call these days neurodiversity, previously known as congenital madness?
When you come back down to earth from your 12:12 utc flight of fancy, I’d love a serious answer to my #187.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 12:52 utc | 221

Re Carlson. Russian SVR ect would have thoroughly checked him out before the meeting with with Putin. I would tend to go with their judgment. Putin being ex KGB, FSB, would most likely have gone through all raw intel himself rather than rely on summaries ect. He knew exactly who he was speaking to.
As I put in a comment some time ago, Putin wasn’t speaking about CIA over ruling three past presidents was not put in for idle chatter, nor telling Carlson that he had applied to join the CIA, nor I think in relation to nordstream and who dunnit, Putin said “You”. I believe he added the fact that Russia deals with the CIA, as they are, or are speakers for the decision makers in the US.
As with all things US, there will be at least two factions, the globalists and the nationalists/patriots in the CIA. Carlson is in that second faction.
Globalists are living in a hubris filled fantasy while the nationalists are a bit more cold war style realists. Globalists are easy to draw into a trap while the nationalists are not so easy and I assume that’s why he said he preferred Biden as US president than Trump. I think Putin said something about Biden being predictable (Bidens handlers I assume).
But whatever. In that interview, Putin knew he was talking with and to the CIA and deep state.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 8 2024 13:08 utc | 223

“Re Carlson. Russian SVR ect would have thoroughly checked him out before the meeting with with Putin. I would tend to go with their judgment. Putin being ex KGB, FSB, would most likely have gone through all raw intel himself rather than rely on summaries ect. He knew exactly who he was speaking to.
As I put in a comment some time ago, Putin wasn’t speaking about CIA over ruling three past presidents was not put in for idle chatter, nor telling Carlson that he had applied to join the CIA, nor I think in relation to Nordstream and who dunnit, Putin said “You”. I believe he added the fact that Russia deals with the CIA, as they are, or are speakers for the decision makers in the US.
As with all things US, there will be at least two factions, the globalists and the nationalists/patriots in the CIA. Carlson is in that second faction.
Globalists are living in a hubris filled fantasy while the nationalists are a bit more cold war style realists. Globalists are easy to draw into a trap while the nationalists are not so easy and I assume that’s why he said he preferred Biden as US president than Trump. I think Putin said something about Biden being predictable (Bidens handlers I assume).
But whatever. In that interview, Putin knew he was talking with and to the CIA and deep state.”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 8 2024 13:08 utc | 220
Peter, excellent post, thanks.

Posted by: canuck | Mar 8 2024 13:10 utc | 225

https://www.mintpressnews.com/tucker-carlson-biography-nicaragua-cia/279782/

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Mar 8 2024 13:33 utc | 227

Posted by: Mario | Mar 8 2024 12:26 utc | 211
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 12:12 utc | 207
Russia is not starting a nuclear war.
You can scream and stomp your feet until they are bleeding but it won’t happen.
I respect where you are coming from Mario, but you are wasting your brain and key strokes by taking time to try countering this disruptive troll. Shadowbanned is a MI6 run collective of historians, military historians with a bit of social and economic history thrown in to enhance the “credibility” of the narrative. Although this collective is primarily academic in nature, it is undoubtedly overseen by some real professional MI6 spooks.
Actually it is a pretty sophisticated operation and I suspect that the general model is being adopted by other “five eyes” agencies.

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Mar 8 2024 13:36 utc | 229

The US camps – the globalists and nationalist – On either side will be the core die hards, then inbetween will be those that will go either way. No definite boundary between the two. What I make of it is that after the destruction of the third Nato army in Ukraine, a lot of the swingers have moved over to the nationalist camp – basically spending more money on the Ukraine operation is just throwing good money after bad.
Pentagon have saved some of the Ukraine funding rather than sending more weapons. I assume that money is to keep ISR going over Ukraine with the usual objective of killing as many Russians as possible while Ukraine is still fighting. Standard US mentality.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 8 2024 13:38 utc | 231

The US/NATO are not in any way scared of Moscow or their nukes. This is how it looks to me at present.
Posted by: snake | Mar 8 2024 4:14 utc | 160
I would describe it more like the US/NATO are reasonably confident Russia won’t use their nukes.
What they are scared of however in relation to Russia is failure.
Remember back in 1941 when a certain German dictator said “kick in the door and the whole rotten edifice will colappse”
Fast forward to 2022 when “nuclear level sanctions” were supposed to destroy that “gas station with nuclear weapons”.
Then there was the “greatest counter offensive” that was supposed to retake Crimea last summer.
How many times have “game changer” weapons gone to Ukraine only to be discovered as irrelevant. J-dams and rocket assisted small diameter bombs got jammed and can’t hit a target. The Crimean bridge is still standing despite multiple Storm shadow missile attacks.
If none of these tactics and weapons that were supposed to defeat Russia work whats to say NATO’s plans to defeat Russia will work? I sure as hell wouldn’t bet against the Russians.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Mar 8 2024 13:40 utc | 233

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Mar 8 2024 13:33 utc | 224
Thanks for that article, it makes it clear Tucker is undoubtedly CIA just as Putin said in their conversation.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 8 2024 13:47 utc | 235

@ Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 8 2024 12:28 utc | 212
Brilliant. I’d add there are definitely no sock puppets at MoA or Bellends or 77th or as I prefer to call them 88ths …
We are a happy few , where no one’s poo stinks like a dogs poo.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 8 2024 13:52 utc | 237

@214 without giving away too much about myself, my family moved to the USA in the 1980s, and within 5 years moved into the suburban upper middle class. In the mid-late 80s, my grandparents visited the USA from the Soviet Union, and from their own experience, there was an enormous gap in living standards. America had recessions, even depressions, but the base standard of living was head and shoulders above the Soviet Union. This even despite my grandparents having a private car, their own house, all the major appliances, etc. After his visit, my grandfather apparently said something like if capitalism is rotten, it certainly has a sweet smell.
This is the position most Soviets were in, they thought of America and Germany as some sorts of promised lands, if you were lucky enough to have relatives there, they would mail you all sorts of goodies. The Soviet Union was at its most comfortable in the 70s/early 80s, but it was a super utilitarian comfort devoid of luxuries.
There was a deep recession in the USA in the early 80s, and the late 70s were kind of an era of stagnation in America (from what I’ve read), but by the mid 80s the country was confident and very prosperous again. The main fear was of capitalist Japan, not the communist block.
We second guess Putin today, but keep in mind that almost no one in the West, certainly almost no one in any position of power, is Russophilic, while the large majority of the Russian professional class is extremely drawn to western culture and to the West. You have a generation of boomers in Russia scarred by the transition, the ones in power are not low IQ in the sense that they would do poorly on a paper IQ test, but they are nevertheless idiot blowhards with an inexplicable overconfidence. If you don’t speak Russian and want to get a feel for them, read Martynov’s blog. The younger generation (say 45 and younger) is much more competent, but the best of them are extremely pro-Western and reflexively anti-Russian. If something is Russian, it’s garbage (except the sliver of upper-middle-class Moscow world they themselves live in which is just like the West), that’s what they think. And Putin needs to corral this sort of population into isolation and a showdown with the Western block to live his Russian great man fantasies. It’s not an easy task.

Posted by: Chessmaster Z | Mar 8 2024 14:01 utc | 239

Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 8 2024 13:52 utc | 234
Perish the thought =)

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 8 2024 14:18 utc | 241

@ Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 14:19 utc | 239
Can I also recommend
1. NATO HQ, the aerial view of which is, literally by design, a double Schutzstaffel logo; and
2. MI6 HQ, the most hideous PoMo architectural monstrosity on the planet?

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2024 14:27 utc | 243

1. NATO HQ, the aerial view of which is, literally by design, a double Schutzstaffel logo; and
Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2024 14:27 utc | 240

its interesting, is it not?
and then if you look at the nato flag, just angle those 4 white stripes at the tip of that little cross, and look at that, you have adolfs little insignia back in full swing.
if it quacks like a duck…

Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 8 2024 14:47 utc | 245

Posted by: Chessmaster Z | Mar 8 2024 14:01 utc | 236
Wow. You and your parents really drank the Kool-Aid when you left Russia. Everything you say is a blanket stereotype of Russia, typical of most ex-patriots who see America as the shining capitalist light on the hill. I hope you’re now happy with your luxurious upper middle class life. Sounds like you need a holiday in Avdiivka for a touch of Russo-Ukrainian reality.
And btw, you are just sooooo wrong that none/few political leaders admire Putin and Russia. Just shows how wrapped up in MSM you are and cloistered from the real, energing non-unipolar world. Have you not seen the warm embraces Putin gets from Modi, Xi, Arab and African leaders. Have you not seen the numerous international forums that Russia regularly hosts with 100s of visiting dignitaries. You’re either a stooge, a moron, a troll, or a patsy of your own culture.
Also, sounds like you’ve swallowed the West’s Navalny narrative — “all the young smart Russians hate Russia”. Far from it. Youth creativity is galloping ahead in Russia. It’s good that you’re at home in America — home of the comfortably blind.
Please go away.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 14:52 utc | 247

malenkov@240….if you like architecture monstrosities….might I suggest the Canadian Museum For Human Rights…..a joke onto itself.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 8 2024 14:58 utc | 249

@ sean the leprechaun | Mar 8 2024 14:58 utc | 246
Yet another monstrosity Kunstler has somehow overlooked.
Of course, the very concept os “Canadian museum for human rights” is a monstrosity. Then again, museums exist to memorialize dead things.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2024 15:04 utc | 251

@244
ChessmaterZ may be second generation soviet refugee, more likely troll ‘ai’.
There is a tiny element in US claiming a 5th column in Russia.
It is malarkey! Most of their claims are false, probably funded by ISW.
I used tilt with a U.S. educator married to a family who had gone astray with Stalin. The misinfo was ridiculous.
Z may be them.

Posted by: paddy | Mar 8 2024 15:27 utc | 253

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Mar 8 2024 13:33 utc | 224
Thanks for that article, it makes it clear Tucker is undoubtedly CIA just as Putin said in their conversation.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 8 2024 13:47 utc | 232
—
Omg. Sucked in. I read it. Lol. A massive hit job of smearing by association, written by a complete anti-conservative, ie an arch enemy of everything Tucker Carlson stands for. I’m not a fanboy of Carlson, just aghast at your naivety at not assessing the sources you read before swallowing such nonsense. In other words, don’t believe anything you read in the mainstream media nor the alternative media, unless you want fantastical mainstream fantasies or fantastical alternative fantasies.
Tucker Carlson is no CIA asset. He’s just a dumbarse yankee TV host a bit outside the norm. No spooks to see here folks.
Btw, that’s NOT what Putin said. Get ya facts straight.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 15:30 utc | 255

Jake , you sound like a fanboy.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 8 2024 15:41 utc | 257

Ukraine Weekly Update, 8th March 2024: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-260

Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Mar 8 2024 16:22 utc | 259

More on Carlson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YF0H5fnvis

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Mar 8 2024 16:49 utc | 261

I’d love a serious answer to my #187.
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 12:52 utc | 221

You got it at #217

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 17:23 utc | 263

And why didn’t Crimea stay as Russia? No wonder the present day Ukies think they’re getting their country stolen. . .
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 10:19 utc | 187

Crimea wanted to stay part of Russia. It most definitely did not want to be part of Ukraine, declaring itself an autonomous state in 1991. I believe the referendum they held was over 90% in favor. Crimea even drafted a constitution, when Ukraine stepped in and nullified it. The Ukies think Crimea (and Donbass) belong to them because they see these areas as essentially colonies they can exploit, the people (orcs) who live there as expendable serfs. The upshot is that the US/West sees Ukraine the same way.
Posted by: Mike R | Mar 8 2024 17:07 utc | 262

Indeed.
It was a very selective interpretation of the right to self-determination. Ukraine somehow had the right to secede from Moscow (the “right” morally, I am well aware of the legal time bomb that was the Soviet Constitution), but its own regions absolutely didn’t have the right to secede from Kiev.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 17:24 utc | 265

Posted by: Browser | Mar 8 2024 14:49 utc | 246
WaPoo has a simple answer! Unfortunately, that human interest story was before Ukraine’s um sociological center released fresh poll smoke.
Tougher mobilization. Two-thirds of Ukrainians are against restrictions for draft dodgers

… Asked whether they agree that all men who are fit for service in terms of age and health should be conscripted without exception, more than half or 54.5% of respondents supported this idea….

Posted by: sln2002 | Mar 8 2024 17:37 utc | 267

In the mid-late 80s, my grandparents visited the USA from the Soviet Union, and from their own experience, there was an enormous gap in living standards. America had recessions, even depressions, but the base standard of living was head and shoulders above the Soviet Union. This even despite my grandparents having a private car, their own house, all the major appliances, etc. After his visit, my grandfather apparently said something like if capitalism is rotten, it certainly has a sweet smell.
Posted by: Chessmaster Z | Mar 8 2024 14:01 utc | 236
Their observations are meaningful and accurate as long as you refuse to look at the history of the Soviet Union compared to the history of the USA,
Here are just a few points your grandparents missed.
The USA had their revolution 142 years before the Russians had theirs.
During that 142 year period the USA was never invaded … the only war they fought was self inflicted. Russia was one of the USA’s biggest supporters during the US revolution giving them military and humanitarian aid during the war.
After 142 year of relative peace and unopposed trade the USA made a fortune off the wars of the 20th century by avoiding casualties by coming late to the wars and supplying everyone in the conflict with arms and munitions … even to the Germans they were at war with. They then went on to make a further fortune by being the only western economy without battle damage supplying Europe and Japan with all the machine tools, automobiles, food, energy, building material and industrial raw materials they needed to get back on their feet. Except for Russia and China of course because they were commies.
Contrast that with the Russian experience.
To begin with the Russians suffered horrendous casualties and mismanagement during WW1 which led to the revolution. The American revolution was a revolution of business men who didn’t want to pay taxes to the British king. The Russian revolution was a revolution of the peasants and workers against the Tsar because they were tired of hunger and needless dying.
The Allied west fought against the revolution and funded the civil war that followed … a civil war that killed 4 million Russians. The Germans also did their part by infecting the Russian revolution with the Bolshevik bacillus by putting the most heinous revolutionaries in Europe on a sealed train whose doors were only opened when the train reached Russia.
After the civil war ended in defeat for the allies they levelled severe sanctions on Russia causing famine and restricting development. What little money the Russian state had to invest went into industrialization and arms. There was nothing left for consumer goods.
Then came WW2 … suddenly the evil dictator Stalin was now “uncle Joe” and the USA / GB lifted sanctions on some things and started shipping war material to Russia. Americans love to tell you how they defeated the Germans because they sent arms to Russia … what they don’t tell you is that the Russians had to pay for all that shit and only just paid off the debt … including interest of course … a few years ago.
Then immediately after WW2 ended Stalin is once again an evil dictator bent on world domination and the cold war begins with economic sanctions combined with a very expensive arms race at a time when Russia had lost 28,000,000 people and a portion of their country the size of the continental USA from the Atlantic coast to the Mississippi lay in ruins. People were still living in the basements of their destroyed homes right up until the mid 1960’s.
Then came the 1990’s and the west gave economic aid to every ex Warsaw pact country except Russia where they let them sink into economic collapse then the vultures descended to pick the bones of the Soviet Union.
It was only in 2000 when Putin took power that things started to change for Russia. he kicked out the westren carpet baggers and corrupt oligarchs who enabled them … for this Putin got labelled “evil dictator” by the west along with … wait for it … economic sanctions and an effort to villify and remove him from power.
So yea. in 1980 we in the west had all sorts of consumer goodies and lived a much affluent lifestyle compared to Soviets but we weren’t under sanction and isolated for over 100 years, we had nurturing support from other nations for our revolution and we didn’t have destructive wars fought on our territory.
Marks was an economist not a political philosipher. He recognized that capitalism requires growth and growth cannot be infinite. He further recognized that the end game of capitalism is war fought over markets and resources. Socialism was suggested by him as a peaceful alternative to capitalism however the real premise of his work is capitalism ultimately causes war. The west however chose to focus on the ‘socialism’ aspect of his work and ignored the capitalism causes wars part.
Take a look at what’s happening in the world today … Marks hit the nail on the head.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Mar 8 2024 17:54 utc | 269

@266 who were the 3rd world peasants America was oppressing in 1985 in order to get its citizens Ford cars or Huffy bicycles? America is and was largely self sufficient in food and energy. We bought a lot of oil from Saudi Arabia in 1985 but it’s not like they were poorly paid or lived badly themselves. What did we get from India? From Africa? You can’t make a communist internationale out of this. America barely traded with the developing world back then, most trade was with other developed countries like Japan.
Countries like the USA, Japan, W Germany, New Zealand, France, had much higher living standards than the communist block not because of 3rd world oppression but because of a much more efficient economic system. W Germany and Japan were if anything even more destroyed than the Soviet Union in terms of economic infrastructure in 1945, but by 1985 had recovered to the point of exceeding the USA (not to mention the UK) in broad swathes of industrial production and wealth. Japan in 1990, right before the fall of the communist block, was if anything wealthier than the USA.

Posted by: Chessmaster Z | Mar 8 2024 18:30 utc | 271

@266 who were the 3rd world peasants America was oppressing in 1985 in order to get its citizens Ford cars or Huffy bicycles? America is and was largely self sufficient in food and energy.
Posted by: Chessmaster Z | Mar 8 2024 18:30 utc | 271

That’s blatantly false though — the US has been a net oil (and overall energy) importer since around 1970 (which is also when it went off the gold standard, the two things being intimately causally related).
It still is to this day, despite the fracking boom, and it was much worse two decades ago, when it imported 70% of its oil.
BTW, it doesn’t actually get that imported oil primarily from the Middle East, it gets it from Latin America and Africa, the Middle East it fights wars in in order to control others through the oil there.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 18:58 utc | 273

@273 oil came from very prosperous middle eastern countries back then, or Venezuela, which was also among the richest states in all of Latin America, I think even surpassing Argentina in the 1960s-70s. This is not oppression, this is trade. Bananas lol, ok, this was the fountain of American prosperity, you got me. Don’t forget pineapples, although a lot of them came from Hawaii.
Remember that 1985 is before the current wave of globalization began in earnest. The big trade issue back then overshadowing all others was Japan, which was coming at the USA from above rather than below, when it came to technology and industrial innovation and development. I remember reading that 50% of global stock market capitalization in 1990 was traded on the Tokyo stock exchange, only 25% on the NYSE, and the Osaka exchange beating out London for 3rd place.

Posted by: Chessmaster Z | Mar 8 2024 19:15 utc | 275

Posted by: Mario | Mar 8 2024 12:26 utc | 211
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 12:12 utc | 207
Russia is not starting a nuclear war.
You can scream and stomp your feet until they are bleeding but it won’t happen.
Shadowbanned is a MI6 run collective of historians, military historians with a bit of social and economic history thrown in to enhance the “credibility” of the narrative. Although this collective is primarily academic in nature, it is undoubtedly overseen by some real professional MI6 spooks.
Actually it is a pretty sophisticated operation and I suspect that the general model is being adopted by other “five eyes” agencies.
Posted by: Barrel Brown | Mar 8 2024 13:36 utc | 229
—————————————————————
I have not been feeding sb for some time. Barrel Brown’s interpretation makes the most sense to me.
There are many MoA barflies with incredible depths of knowledge, not all present in any other single person or entity. A good reason to be here and read frequently.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Mar 8 2024 20:19 utc | 277

Barrel Brown @229: “Shadowspammer is a MI6 run collective of historians, military historians with a bit of social and economic history thrown in to enhance the “credibility” of the narrative.”
Nooo!! It really is just one dude who types super fast!
As well, it has committed all of Wikipedia to memory so it knows everything and doesn’t have to research for any of its posts.
Also, it is independently wealthy, so it isn’t here for the money. It spends all day on MoA gifting to you its keen insight, just like that Canadian ChatNSDAP bot.
Or so we are to believe…

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 8 2024 20:57 utc | 279

shаdοwbanned | Mar 8 2024 17:23 utc | 263
Yep. thanks, v much. Must have crossed posting times and mussed it.
Wonderfully informative and complex. Not stuff I’ve read in my life.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 21:42 utc | 281

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 8 2024 20:57 utc | 279
Nooo!! It really is just one dude who types super fast!
As well, it has committed all of Wikipedia to memory so it knows everything and doesn’t have to research for any of its posts.
Also, it is independently wealthy, so it isn’t here for the money. It spends all day on MoA gifting to you its keen insight, just like that Canadian ChatNSDAP bot.
Or so we are to believe…
William, while I admire your charitable attitude towards sb, I stand by my assertion that sb-and some other more recent contributors to MOA -are really artificial personas created and run by well resourced five eyes alphabet spook agencies. Either that or the trolls in question have been seriously AI enhanced.
Anyhow, I recognise your sarcasm and thank you for your response.

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Mar 8 2024 22:31 utc | 283

by: malenkov | Mar 8 2024 14:27 utc | 243
There were two NATO headquarters. The new one is from 2018 onward.
The old one is Belgium Army HQ now.
If anything ever goes boom on the NATO territory that will be AEGIS in Romania and Poland, first.
After that it could be anything, probably blinding the electronic presence. No need to shoot the satellite, when you can take down receiving station or a relay.
Heidelberg, Rammstein, Graeffenwoehr are the pale shadow of what they used to be during the Cold War. It is not only one deep electronic data collection point anymore, but many granulated. Russian missilery certainly has some strategy and an eye there.
A war on logistic centers is important more than anything else afterwards. I would say never with nukes, but conventionally, Russia would clean up the good 100 km around its envisaged zone of influence if it gets attacked a la Yougoslavie style.

Posted by: whirlX | Mar 8 2024 22:55 utc | 285

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 21:38 utc | 280
Posters like you are the reason I read back to front.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 8 2024 21:56 utc | 282
What a fkn moron. What a pathetic insult! Lol. And don’t lie. You read new to old — just like I and many others do SOMETIMES — because when one’s time and attention span is short, you just “catch up on the latest” rather than the overnight lot. At least I don’t blame YOU for that. Duh. It is what causes missed replies, endless repetitions, and superficial understanding of long thread issues.
And you’re absolutely free to ignore me. But be warned, if/when I see your bullshit and delusions I might call you out on it … front or back of the thread. This Carlson=CIA is such transparent fake news.
Now, got anything relevant to say? No spooks here. No cookie, AGAIN.
You’re a rabbid lefty, aren’t you, always looking for slander against conservatives, aren’t you. Which statement makes your little brain THINK I’m a conservative. Lol. But not true. Fyi, I think Tucker Carlson did a very bold thing, in his own clutsy way, in the spirit of open journalism, against US MSM censorship of Putin’s perspective, just like he said, just as it seemed.
And consider this: If any agency planned that interview and gained massively from it, it was the FSB!!! They must be laughing out the back of their faces at the way THEY exploited Carlson and the Western media with the massive pre-publicity … all to get Putin’s voice 1 billion views. Not exactly the outcome the CIA would have liked. Duh. So think it through one last time and then drop it.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 8 2024 23:26 utc | 287

And one final reiteration in the Carlson=CIA fake news to try to put it to bed:
Consider this: If any agency planned that interview and gained massively from it, it was the FSB!!! They must be laughing out the back of their faces at the way THEY exploited Carlson and the Western media with all the massive pre-publicity … all to get Putin’s perspective 1 billion global views. Not exactly the outcome the CIA would have liked. Duh.
Mrs H. Clinton (now she would know a CIA op when she sees one!) called Carlson “a useful idiot”, “a mouthpiece for Putin”. And she’s dead right. He was — by his own wilful, overtly announced, rational, adult choice. The Kremlin must have thought Christmas had come when he first asked. Hardly likely they would be sucked in to some CIA patsy. Lol.
And subsequently, weren’t the MSM all over Carlson (at the behest of the deep state and DNP) with endless op-ed disassembly and criticism. Now THAT’S exactly the CIA reaction to fair media reaction.
The Carlson as CIA trope is such a transparent concoction as to be laughable. Probably a seeded op by CIA to just confuse the lefty punters (which it has done perfectly). Ha, why didn’t they call him an FSB agent … cos it wouldn’t have been as believable.
Tin Foil Hat Awards for all you gullibles. So think it through one last time and then drop it.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 9 2024 1:13 utc | 289

Not sure what happened there “Jake Blanchard | Ma | Mar 9 2024 1:29 utc | 290”
That comment was mine. Looks like I pasted the address of my comment to the username box as well.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 9 2024 1:36 utc | 291

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 9 2024 2:08 utc | 292
What proof do you offer that Carlson is CIA? The burden is on you to prove it, not to anyone to disprove it.
Was he in a sleeper cell for thirty years and then suddenly “activated” for one interview?

Posted by: James M. | Mar 9 2024 2:23 utc | 293

Peter AU1 | Mar 9 2024 1:36 utc | 291
Lol. A gremlin in your keyboard.
But your 290 post, if intended to me, was both ambiguous and debatable.
>>Have you noticed how the hippy movement of the sixties and seventies has been transformed into the woke nihilist movement of today.
Disagree, vehemently. For that to be the case the wokies would have to be over 60! Certainly not true! And besides, I see NO SIMILARITIES between hippydom and wokism. We’ve both lived through both. An odd equivalence, imo. Wokism is an infantile, atheist, socially divisive ideology of the spoiled neo-Marxist generations. Hippydom was an age of Aquarius thing, an interpersonal, local community, geo-political Oneness, spiritualist, peace ideology.
>>> But blind devotion to a media persona will not achieve your goal of convincing others.
Huh? You talking to me Peter??? I ain’t no blind devotee of any media personality. Is that what you meant???
>>>US deep state is obviously going to turn in a new direction rather than throw more money at trying to take down Russia.
Dissagree. It’s gunna continue to needle anyone it considers a peer threat, economically or militarily. Heavens, they’re not gunna just sit by and let Russia continue military strengthening with which it MIGHT, ONE DAY support China. You know the State Department has a (real and metaphorical) “desk” for every country in the world, whose job is to wake up every morning and plan “Now, how can we fuck up (eg,) Russia today”. That’s the job delegated to the US Embassy in Canberra! Those desks sure ain’t gunna be mothballed in 2024-5 just because China is now a bigger bogeyman. It’s not a zero sum game. This Mearshiemer Pivot Thesis is a simplistic binary scam. It’s not Russia OR China as the new big enemy. It’s anyone, everyone, they can screw over, all the time. Ha, throw money .. you nean print money!
>>> Carlson has the street cred to be the media face of that change. It’s a near certainty now that Trump will be the next president – the fall guy for the war on China as that is his priority target.
Agreed on Trump. But Carlson is not fixated anti-China, is he? And the deep state can’t use him due to his very popularity, his voice for rightist, government-distrusting rednecks. He might even pull the same trick in a year and go visit Xi for an interview if he suspects MSM censorship. Now THAT would be funny. Tucker Carlson in Beijing. Shades of Hanoi Jane. Lol. And imo, Trump will pull his head in internationally. He’ll make China-Wars via Wall Street … if he manages to keep deep state and Pentagon under toe. I think the US-China kinetic War is a confabulation of the Biden Dems for domestic tough guy PR. Won’t happen.
The Pentagon has wargamed it several times. A big US loss! Obvious to even me. And there is just no need to make war on China. Taiwan’s only real US interest is TSMC. Trump is more the kind of patriot who says, *and has said*, “Lets make all that shit at home”. Good idea, then they can abandon the island’s creeping militarisation. What goddam good would a bunch of US missiles do on Taiwan? It would be another Cuban Missile Crisis … in reverse. Only, China will not tolerate missiles on what it considers to be its OWN territory. Taiwan is not Cuba. It’s China. And the US would be extremely silly if it thought it could sneak some in there like the Soviets did!
And the Spratlys (as distasteful and illegal as it actually was) was originally about fishing resources only, and only got military after the US threatened to bomb them off it. Since then its been flogged as “China taking over SE Asia, therefore we need to keep them in check”. Total crap, imo. Even Malaysia agreed on that, just today.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Mar 9 2024 3:08 utc | 295

The article Jake is so critical of does a reasonable job of that, I don’t need to. Interesting
that it jives exactly with the CIA and their children I have known.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 9 2024 2:35 utc | 294
Ah so in other words, no evidence. Got it. You won’t mind then if I continue to disregard the “Tucker Carlson as CIA asset” posts.

Posted by: James M. | Mar 9 2024 8:03 utc | 297

Obligatory reminder that NATO lost its only (highly doubtful) chance to intervene in 2022. When the AFU was strongest & the RF was still deploying a peacetime military.
Oh, and France dosnt have an army fit for high-end conventional warfare. Neither in numbers nor equipment, it’s a punitive, colonial police force.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Mar 9 2024 13:30 utc | 299