Happy easter to you too, b. Thank you for your work.

Posted by: kspr | Mar 31 2024 8:48 utc | 1

"The Pagans" is still my all time favourite Simpsons episode. Homer is still my inspiration.

Enjoy the break b.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Mar 31 2024 8:49 utc | 2

Happy Easter! :)

( >:( touch my nest eggs and I'll peck at you!)

/cheep cheep
/hops back into the brambles

Posted by: titmouse | Mar 31 2024 8:50 utc | 3

I am not religious, but I respect tradition and I also enjoy the Easter holiday. Thank you for the openness at this site.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 31 2024 8:54 utc | 4

Happy Easter to everyone reading this blog. Love to read this blog and make comments. Made a number of financial donations to this blog in the past to keep this blog alive.

Posted by: WMG | Mar 31 2024 8:55 utc | 5

Happy Easter to all in this forum!

Posted by: Steve | Mar 31 2024 8:56 utc | 6

Thanks for all your hard work b. And thanks to all contributors who post in good faith so many interesting articles and links.

Happy Easter

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Mar 31 2024 9:05 utc | 7

Back in the days of old, before the Roman Empire came to be, humanity celebrated the beginning of the new year AT NOON on the day of the vernal equinox - 21st of March. Thus people celebrated the birth of the new Sun as our common father-lifebringer and savior of humanity.

(Even in the present day calendar there still are traces of the old one, which are easily recognized by the names of the months - September which in latin means Seventh, October is Eighth and so on.)

Then the Romans perverted this ancient tradition by altering the ancient calendars and ordering everyone to greet the new year at midnight during the coldest months of the winter, celebrating darkness and its deities Moloch/Baal/Saturn... which in itself altered the path and fate of humanity in an esoteric "collective unconscious" manner, metaphysically transforming people into worshipers of the night, with all the consequences that ensued, and as witnessed in the history of the last 2 000 years...

The worship of the Sun could however not be totally eradicated throughout the entire humanity, so it was later incorporated within Christianity through an adapted story about the Messiah's resurrection on Easter, even that one wildly distorted from the original message throughout the years, ending up in "modern times" with celebrating "eggs and hares" and further degrading and deteriorating its original esoteric significance.

Happy Resurrection, may the Son shine upon all of you!

Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Mar 31 2024 9:21 utc | 8

"The Christian resurrection of Jesus is probably a transformation of this older tale."
Ignorance at its finest by someone who prefers to live in an echo chamber.

Posted by: Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 9:25 utc | 9

Happy Easter to you, too. Thank you for all your informative articles

Posted by: Ruth | Mar 31 2024 9:36 utc | 10

Easter? But Joe Biden told me today is transgender day!

Posted by: Orville | Mar 31 2024 9:41 utc | 11

It's not Easter Sunday in Russia until 5 May, and in any case, I'm a heathen, so —

Heill Óðinn!

😃

However, "Happy Easter" to all Western Christians!

Posted by: Moscow Exile | Mar 31 2024 9:42 utc | 12

Jean Francois @9

And despite your bile, I wish you a happy Easter.

Posted by: Judge Barbier | Mar 31 2024 9:46 utc | 13

Oblivion of history. There never was a Christ and certainly not a resurrection. Please excuse me.

Posted by: hatomune | Mar 31 2024 9:52 utc | 14

A very Happy Easter to B and all MoA barflies. May the Easter Bunny deliver all your favourite chocolate eggs. Wassail to Moscow Exile.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Mar 31 2024 10:00 utc | 15

@hatomune : That's a new trend. Since it is hard to find a logical explanation regarding the conversion of Saint Paul ad the martyrdom of at least 6 of Jesus disciples (back by sources from the first, second and third century) plus two disciples of John )the layziest way is to deny everything if you want to live a life with no moral obligations. When the Jews of the first and second century who were very hostiles to the new religion never claimes that he was a myth. Tacitus didn't either. Nor Favius Joseph. Never heard about the Muratori Canon? Papias of Hierapolis? How strange that a substancial community of christians were present in Rome (Tacitus on the persecutions from Neron) only 30 years after? You think that legends can appear out of thins air and spread like a wildfire whilw surviving witness are stil there?

Posted by: Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 10:09 utc | 16

When Herod Agrippa

When Herod Agrippa arrived in the city-Temple "he ordered a large group of Nazoreans to cut their hair" (Flavius Josephus) and beheaded (book of Acts) one of them: "James the son of Thunder".

The so called the "Nazarene" was so called by his followers because of a fusion of meanings: from the hamlet of Nazareth + vow of nazoreo

The "Nazarene" had a clash with the Sadducean clan of Anas/Ananas who held power in those lands, either in the sun or in the shade, between the census-cadastre of Sulpicius Quirinus (ca. 6 dC) and when Menahem - "no lord but the Lord" - beheaded (ca. 66 dC) the high priest Anas the young son of Anas the old father-in-law of Caiaphas.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 10:21 utc | 17

"The Christian resurrection of Jesus is probably a transformation of this older tale."

si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses
(or "Schuster, bleib bei deinem Leisten.")

The biggest problem of the West: it doesn't understand its own religion.
The biggest propaganda: that all our academic/scientific progress made us so much smarter and the world better,
I must break it to you: it didn't.
The fact, that we have more information than ever before (overkill of information) seems to make us dumb and dumber.

Otherwise, one of the great blogs,
Happy Easter.

Posted by: cortomaltese | Mar 31 2024 10:25 utc | 18

Trappist monk joke: monk Jean-Francois has won best monk prize which allows him one sentence on Easter Day. Next year hatomune wins and he speaks his one sentence.
The following year another commenter wins. ' I'm leaving. I can't stand the constant bickering about Christ.'

Thanks b. for allowing religious debate on your blog. Please enjoy your walk

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 10:28 utc | 19

Plan A

Plan A was to kill him "without making noise"; but as we see with total clarity in Luke's text, the "Nazarene" moves very cautiously because he knows he is threatened and is surrounded by bodyguards armed with hidden daggers (not with swords as many mistranslations say: with swords they could not protect the Nazarene inside the city-Temple).

So, plan B, the head of the clan, the high priest Anas the Elder, sent his son-in-law, the high priest Caiaphas, to talk to the general of the marine corps, a certain Pontius.

And this Pontius, general of the Marine Corps at the time, after much theatrics, killed him as the Romans killed a rebellious slave, after invoking the "De Sacrando" law.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 10:29 utc | 20

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 10:28 utc | 19

Trappist monk joke: monk Jean-Francois has won best monk prize which allows him one sentence on Easter Day. Next year hatomune wins and he speaks his one sentence.
The following year another commenter wins. ' I'm leaving. I can't stand the constant bickering about Christ.'

------

Haha. Does this 'translate' into an equivalent joke about Islamic sects of some flavor?

Ramadan Mubarak!

Posted by: dumbo | Mar 31 2024 10:35 utc | 21

b's Easter walk works like a clockwork (and a charm) every year, one of the fixed points in these crazy times. Best wishes to you brother. And the quote from Goethe is there every year. Goethe is the greatest German poet since Brecht from whom we got those unforgettable lines "oh moon of alabama". Ok the chronology does not quite align but that is the least of our worries. Really, I mean it. Thanks b.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 31 2024 10:35 utc | 22

Happy Easter, b, and thanks for all your diligent sleuthing.
Happy Easter chocolate Shopping Festival to all the barfies too.
And may the barfleas experience a Getting of Wisdom.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 31 2024 10:45 utc | 23

The prefect of the Empire

The prefect of the Empire mobilized a battalion of heavy infantry under the command of a lieutenant colonel ("chiliarkos" in the Greek text)

But to identify the group within a gigantic crowd camped on the outskirts of the Temple city, it was an advance party of lackeys of the Sadducean priestly aristocracy.

Simon "the stone" (not to be confused with my character: Simon "the Canaanite") ...

Simon "the stone" without thinking disemboweled a lackey of the Saducean priestly aristocracy, and the "Nazarene", who had more lights under the moonlight and saw a Battalion of Heavy ("hoplon") Infantry coming, he said: -throw the daggers.

And they came to "the house of Mary mother of John called Mark" saying: - "he gave his life for us"

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 10:50 utc | 24

Happy Easter b!

Regarding the religious meaning of the holiday, I would like to recommend a book by Mijail Bulgakov (recently ¨canceled¨in Ukraine in spite of the fact that he was from Kiev), The Master and Margarita. The story of the crucifixion is one of the important threads in the novel

Posted by: c | Mar 31 2024 10:50 utc | 25

The Master and Margarita is one of my all-time favourite novels. Perhaps partly because I love cats and the cat who is the familiar of the Devil is, in my view, the most powerful character in the book!

Happy Easter to all bunnies, and may they all escape cats today (although apparently during the Siege of Paris a lot of cats got eaten, passed off as bunnies!)

Posted by: MFB | Mar 31 2024 10:59 utc | 26

Holy Qur'an chapter 7.
Verses 189 to 191.

It is He who created you all from one soul, and from it made its mate so that he might find comfort in her.
When one of them lies with his wife and she conceives a light burden, going about freely, then grows heavy, they both pray to God , their Lord ,' If you give us a good child we shall certainly be grateful, '

and yet when He gives them a good child they ascribe some of what He has granted them to others.

God is certainly above the partners they ascribe to Him. How can they set up with Him these partners that create nothing and are themselves created ?

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 11:04 utc | 27

The birth

The birth was placed at the darkest time of the year, when the sun is lowest, to symbolize hope.

I mean that there is no contradiction in persian-Mediterranean tradition between the two dates on which the year begins: winter and spring.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 11:14 utc | 28

I would join you in your Easter walk but my job at the hospital calls. Wonderful poem, I shall be there in spirit. Happy Easter B to you and your family.

Posted by: Chicago Bob | Mar 31 2024 11:18 utc | 29

Mijail Bulgakov (recently ¨canceled¨in Ukraine in spite of the fact that he was from Kiev), The Master and Margarita.

Posted by: c | Mar 31 2024 10:50 utc | 25

That true?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 31 2024 11:22 utc | 30

dumbo 21

You know, before the more right wing elements of Islam start doing some of the things Simon is describing, somebody has to do some da'wah, explaining what Islam believes.

The Muslims in the West have only one responsibility in the Qur'an, to ser a good example of Islam and to explain Islam. But we are like trappist monks who live in ghettoes and have sworn never to speak about our religion.

What the Imams teach is that the Muslims should silently take power and overcome the non-Muslims.
I often want to leave this Trappist monastery of Western Islam.

Certainly the imams, like the rabbis and priests before them , have a lot of explaining to do, why they seek political power instead of doing what Allah has commanded them to do in the Qur'an, to set a good example and explain Islam

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 11:24 utc | 31

I’ll volunteer my ‘Sunday sermon’ on this thread - May upset godbotherers. Sorry.

Clearly Easter is a celebration of Spring. When the sun is above the horizon more than it is below. Which outside tropical bands determines soil temperature , which is necessary for germination of seeds. It is directly connected to Life on Earth in these zones , the first flowers bloom, the trees blossom, insects awake and attend to the flowers and fruit is set to grow. Seeds sprout and the Birds and Bees of next generation of creatures. Rebirth.
Or in the opposite hemisphere - a hibernation!

It is a wholly Natural effect of the tilted earth and its cycle around the sun , which allows Life on Earth to exist. That is all.

The rest is just astronomy , the moon cycles, and calendars to track that cycle around the sun. When to know that it is the time to plough, time to lay seed , time to wait to harvest , time to prepare for winter and measure out the food until the first harvests- fasting etc.

There is absolutely no need to believe in a literal deity/ies - they are just allegories for the astronomical motions which mark our procession around the sun and even longer cycles as that orbit and the spin angle of the earth itself precesses.
We live on a spinning top which also spins around the sun which also spins…

The wicked priestly class and their mercenary soldiers took control over that knowledge and made Religious edifices by control of such astronomical knowledge to increase and retain their Power over the growing masses.

It all worked fine - until science , mathematics, literacy, education freed some of the masses from the gobbledygook of Gods and Monsters and threatened the Powerful and their Priesthood tales of jealous Sky fairies and destructive plate tectonics.

Only death and destruction from the Heavens or from under the surface of the Earth has ever threatened Life on Earth. And will continue to do so. Because we don’t know or don’t remember except in certain old religions, the times when the heavens align and we pass through an era of destruction from above by asteroids and comets or even the lines fe giving sun occasionally burning us! But we have less idea of what the core of the Earth is doing and how the continents drift and raise mountains or super volcanoes , massive earthquakes and super tsunamis that can flood a continent and destroy all our works buildings and knowledge - taking the survivors back to generations of oral history - a much harder observation than knowing the skys! A bit devilish infact !

Easter is Science. As are most religions and their ‘holy’ days.

Have a happy today - the clock sprung forward overnight and like magic the evening is brighter ! No it’s not related to any God. It is wholly man made.

Thanks it you got this far. Be mindful of people who at this time of year fall into despair if they are alone and feel as if they are doomed. Suicides spike. An associate has become such a statistic over this weekend. Too young. Too late to help them now. Don’t tell me it’s gods will.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 31 2024 11:36 utc | 32

@Simon: "The birth was placed at the darkest time of the year, when the sun is lowest, to symbolize hope."
I haven't found any proof (so far) that Christmas was celebrated prior to the fourth century.
However Sextus Julius Africanus wrote in 221 that he Christians were celebrating the annunciation on the equivalent of March, 25, so 9 months before December, 25. By the way the shortest day is on December, 21 not 25.

Posted by: Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 11:36 utc | 33

@Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 11:36 utc | 33

I haven't found any proof (so far) that Christmas was celebrated prior to the fourth century.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 31 2024 12:00 utc | 34

Paul of Tarsus, often surprising, in one text uses the same Greek word, "Theos" ("God") to contrast the "God of the earth" and the "God of heaven."

And this coincides with my experience: many of the users of the word "God" that i have encountered in my life turned out to be the most furious atheists. And the other way around: those who called themselves atheists turned out to be true believers.

And this usually happens with many words. That's why it's so easy to deceive with words.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 12:09 utc | 35

Happy Easter. Christ is risen. Christ is King. The world comes alive again

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Mar 31 2024 12:14 utc | 36

"Oblivion of history. There never was a Christ and certainly not a resurrection. Please excuse me."

Posted by: hatomune | Mar 31 2024 9:52 utc | 14

There was certainly a Christ, the resurrection bit I don't subscribe to but I do respect those believe so.

Both Socrates and Jesus were not afraid of death.

The New Testament was written by Greeks in Greek-they were all educated, steeped in the Greek tradition and they told the story of the death of Socrates (he could've easily have exiled himself from Athens but he took his life with Hemlock as a martyr to truth)and placed the model on Christ:

"How serendipitous is it for our purposes that Socrates traces his lineage not only
to an artisan, in general, but also, to a carpenter, in particular! As we know, Jesus was
the son of Joseph a fact supported by the Gospels of Matthew and Luke: “Joseph the
husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born” (Matthew 1:16 [Revised Standard Version]);
“And Joseph also went up from Galilee … to be enrolled with Mary his betrothed, who
was with child” (Luke 2:4-5); and “Is not this [Jesus] Joseph’s son?” (Luke 4:22).

Joseph’s occupation was that of a carpenter as evidenced by the quote from Matthew, “Is
not this [Jesus] the carpenter’s son?” (Matthew 13:55), and similarly in Mark, “Is not this
[Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary…” (Mark 6:3). Further, in the New Testament
apocrypha, The History of Joseph the Carpenter, “He [Joseph] was, besides, skillful in his
trade, which was that of a carpenter” (History of Joseph 2). Note that in the quote from
Mark, it is Jesus who is referred to as being the carpenter. However, there is an assumed customary association that the son follows in the footsteps of the father thereby granting
Joseph the status of carpenter, too. Hence, we see not only the similarity of an artisan
lineage between Jesus and Socrates, but also the common cultural association of an
occupation being handed down from one generation to the next. The salient point to be
grasped is not that both men were the sons of artisans or craftsmen, but rather, that in the
cultures of each, craftsmen were common working class people. They were neither
wealthy nor politically powerful. How, then, could they be heroes? More importantly,
why should we (or the people of their time) listen to anything they have to say? As the
Nazarenes who rejected Jesus asked, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these
mighty works?” (Matthew 13:54).

The answer is provided by Campbell.

The makers of legend have seldom rested content to regard the world’s greatest
heroes as mere human beings who broke past the horizons that limited their
fellows and returned with such boons as any man with equal faith and courage
might have found. On the contrary, the tendency has always been to endow the
hero with extraordinary powers from the moment of birth, or even the moment of
conception. (Campbell 1973, 319)
Specifically, for our heroes, Jesus and Socrates, we must now explore the second
meaning of demiurge for it is through their divine lineage that each derives their
legitimacy as a mythological hero and, subsequently, their credibility to be a deliverer of
the boon. As previously mentioned, the divine sense of the word demiurge refers to the
god/God who created the universe. We find evidence of this in Plato’s Timaeus where
demiourgos is translated as “maker” (Zeyl 1997, 1234n9), “Now to find the maker and
father of this universe” (Plato Timaeus 28c) and “O gods, works divine whose maker and
father I am” (Plato Timaeus 41a). So, too, the God of the Old Testament is a Demiourgos,
a craftsman or creator, as described in the book of Genesis: “In the
beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1); and “In the day that the
Lord God made the earth and the heavens” (Genesis 2:4). Therefore, by using the
secondary, divine, meaning of demiurge when discussing the lineage of our heroes, we
are alluding to the possibility that both men have fathers of supernatural origin.
In Alcibiades, Socrates traces his lineage to Zeus, “mine [my family] goes back to
Daedalus and Daedalus’ goes back to Hephaestus, son of Zeus” (Plato Alcibiades 121a).
In Greek mythology, Zeus is the father of the gods. In Timaeus, Plato traces the lineage
of Zeus back to the demiurge:

The Earth he [the demiurge] devised to be our nurturer… Earth and Heaven gave
birth to Ocean and Tethys, who in turn gave birth to Phorcys, Cronus and Rhea
and all the gods in that generation. Cronus and Rhea gave birth to Zeus and Hera,
as well as all those siblings who are called by names we know. (Plato Timaeus
40b & e, 41a)
In Matthew’s Gospel, the lineage of Jesus is traced back to the house of David through
his human father Joseph. Chapter 1 begins with, “The book of the genealogy of Jesus
Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham” (Matthew 1:1).... (1)

1.https://digitalcommons.du.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1655&context=etd

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 12:18 utc | 37

The history of the Nazarene is prototypical, his experience of the divine was the starry sky and the wheat fields at dawn.

And when as a naive young man he goes to the city he sees the Temple of the Sadducean priestly aristocracy... dripping with blood and money.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 12:21 utc | 38

The birth

The birth was placed (ca. 300/400) at the darkest time of the year, when the sun is lowest, to symbolize hope.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 12:33 utc | 39

In Norway it is called "Jul" which is the name of a winter solstice celebration much older than the introduction of Christianity in this country. It was later merged with the Christian celebration, but there is no name like "Christmas" in Norwegian, you have to say "Jul".
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 31 2024 12:00 utc | 34

Yuletide in England as well, before Christianity took over. You can still see "Yuletide Greetings" cards at Christmas in the English speaking world.

Posted by: Moscow Exile | Mar 31 2024 12:40 utc | 40

Wow. Not just Jesus who has risen but ‘The Odd Couple’ appear within 5 minutes of each other.

Spamming the Happy Easter thread….this compulsive behaviour requires therapy. Take b’s advice, go for a walk. A very long walk.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Mar 31 2024 12:41 utc | 41

Matthew

Matthew is a syrian-yehudi who writes (ca. 80) after the civil war in Syria

he writes with a broken heart and with cosmic anger

In these questions there are three levels: 1) children's literature 2) history and 3) deep meanings

For example, for his narrative, Matthew accumulates Persian astronomers, a massacre of peasants (ca. 4 aC) that he turns into children, and the census-cadastre of Sulpicius Quirinus (ca. 6 dC)

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 12:42 utc | 42

If, for example, we follow Matthew's text to the letter, then the Nazarene was born two years before the massacre of peasants ordered by Archelaus (son of Herod the Great) and when the census-cadastre of Sulpicius Quirinus that leads to the parents of the Nazarene from the hamlet of Nazareth to Bethlehem

That is: 6 before C, and 6 after C

I mean that we should not confuse literature with history.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 12:51 utc | 43

Sorry

For his narrative, Matthew accumulates Persian astronomers, a massacre of peasants (ca. 4 BC) that he turns into children, and the census-cadastre of Sulpicius Quirinus (ca. 6 AD)

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 12:54 utc | 44

Happy Easter b and all the moonbats! the sun has yet to rise here in northern california but once again i'm rising here at the whiskey bar. sweet.

Posted by: annie | Mar 31 2024 12:55 utc | 45

Note

Note how the conversation about this history, full of deep meanings, usually is.

I write:

"The birth was placed at the darkest time of the year, when the sun is lowest, to symbolize hope."

Answer:

"I haven't found any proof (so far) that Christmas was celebrated prior to the fourth century."

WTF

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 13:04 utc | 46

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 10:28 utc | 19

Having no reason, no rationality, no evidence or facts or logic to support their position, those in the wrong admit they deserve to lose an argument the instant they commit censorship. As with Assange, censorship is only different from murder by a matter of degree, not by principle or motivation.

Sorry, DunGroanin, who appreciated a voice and hoped to see someone stay, sorry malenkov, lex talionis, and others who agreed, “the powers that b” have sided with censorship, of someone who will never return, who was, in canuck’s own words, wiser than he. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

In the sense of “mute” I have become...

Posted by: Uncomfortably Dumb | Mar 31 2024 13:05 utc | 47

My God please. Unfortunately when you run a bar some drunks can get disruptive and need to be shown the door. That doesn't mean they might not be welcomed back later, but they when they are being disruptive they're unwelcome. This isn't some biblical injustice, given this is one of the freest bars that remain in the Occident.

Thanks to b for keeping this place like a light of knowledge in a dark time of deception and ignorance.

I'll leave Wildes Easter Day for your contemplation:

The silver trumpets rang across the Dome: The people knelt upon the ground with awe: And borne upon the necks of men I saw, Like some great God, the Holy Lord of Rome. Priest-like, he wore a robe more white than foam, And, king-like, swathed himself in royal red, Three crowns of gold rose high upon his head: In splendor and in light the Pope passed home. My heart stole back across wide wastes of years To One who wandered by a lonely sea, And sought in vain for any place of rest: "Foxes have holes, and every bird its nest, I, only I, must wander wearily, And bruise My feet, and drink wine salt with tears."

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Mar 31 2024 13:10 utc | 48

Frohe Ostern!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqXQ-hn1TTc

Posted by: Apollyon | Mar 31 2024 13:12 utc | 49

"The birth

The birth was placed at the darkest time of the year, when the sun is lowest, to symbolize hope.

I mean that there is no contradiction in Persian-Mediterranean tradition between the two dates on which the year begins: winter and spring."

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 11:14 utc | 28

Jesus birth celebration was modeled after the traditional Saturnalia festival celebrated by the Romans at winter solstice. (1)

1. "Thanks to the Roman Empire’s conquests in Britain and the rest of Europe from the second century B.C. to the fourth century A.D.—and their suppression of older seasonal rites practiced by the Celts and other groups—today’s Western cultures derive many of their traditional celebrations of midwinter from Saturnalia.

The Christian holiday of Christmas, especially, owes many of its traditions to the ancient Roman festival, including the time of year Christmas is celebrated. The Bible does not give a date for Jesus’ birth; in fact, some theologians have concluded he was probably born in spring, as suggested by references to shepherds and sheep in the Nativity story.

But by the fourth century A.D., Western Christian churches settled on celebrating Christmas on December 25, which allowed them to incorporate the holiday with Saturnalia and other popular pagan midwinter traditions." (2)

2.https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-rome/saturnalia

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 13:12 utc | 50

Are there any coincidences?

I just returned from a stroll and then popped open my laptop
and there I was greeted by
'Let's Go For A Easter Walk'

Walked to a tiny public garden and sat on a cold bench,
making sure I was facing the prominent mountain.

Neighbors would occasionally drive by and I imagined they were
on their way to church.

Two deer appeared about fifty yards away. They were yearlings
and I thought, "where is momma?" They looked nervously about,
perhaps they had spotted me on the bench. I gave them a few waves,
moving my forearm and hand together as though they were a friendly
tail. Caught their attention but did not make them less nervous
appearing. Then they darted off in what for them was probably a
well worn path. After they were gone momma appeared and she looked
about. Not seeing her yearlings she hurried quickly, taking the
same path.

A Mockingbird alighted in a nearby cherry tree - freshly new gorgeous
bundles of flowers. I tried to teach the bird 'Ta ta ta taaaaa'
from Beethoven's 5th, I swear it was processing my whistle;
but it was more interested in the scowling noise from another
Mockingbird.

I said a couple of prayers and then strolled home and
popped open my laptop.

Everyone say it together:
Ta Ta Ta Taaaaa

Posted by: librul | Mar 31 2024 13:15 utc | 51

And in the end ...

... we have gone in The West from the old lies about the Nazarene crucified as a rebellious slave and later held up (500/600-) as an example of obedience and quiet suffering for the Christian peasantry ...

... to the new (1967-) official lie: the Nazarene went to the city Temple to ask for membership in the Likud

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 13:15 utc | 52

Did he or didn't he? Will he or won't he?

Regardless of the existence of Christ, the control narrative is plainly evident with all 'written words' on the subject.

There is nothing wrong with ascribing the first two Commandments as the mythical Jesus is rumored to have said. When asked how one should approach life and those whom you live amongst. Regardless of one's religion, or non religious path. I still prefer the Buddhist path of purity of thought, words, and actions.

Happy Easter b, enjoy this time of reflection and rebirth, and Happy and Joyous Easter to all barflies and fleas alike.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 31 2024 13:23 utc | 53

The meanings

The meanings of the history of our Lord Jesus Christ and his followers (ca. 40-300) are completely current with complete accuracy: an empire and a priestly oligarchy.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 13:34 utc | 54

...By the way the shortest day is on December, 21 not 25.
Posted by: Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 11:36 utc | 33

Think about the different calendar systems
and the associated seasonal creep!

Posted by: MAKK | Mar 31 2024 13:50 utc | 55

As this song puts it we created Gods and Religions to paint us with salvation, but in reality religion is the great divider.

For those that are religious Happy Easter to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELKbtFljucQ

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Mar 31 2024 14:00 utc | 56

Posted by: Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 10:09 utc | 16

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 13:34 utc | 54

========================================================

Are either of you, or anyone else here, aware of a good article or short book going into the verifiable historicity of Christ? Being a Buddhist it's not something have paid much attention to, regarding Christianity as partly a socio-political organized religion providing stable solidarity and mainly a matter of personal faith to cultivate a meaningful, virtuous individual and collective life based on timeless principles promoting discipline and compassion. But every once in a while have stumbled on viewpoints claiming that there is zero historical evidence despite Rome cataloguing no end of even very minor daily details and as a Westerner would appreciate being better informed.

That said, viz Simon's remark, am suspicious of anything that developed into a major political organ in the Roman Republic, already a largely corrupted mess by the time of Christ. Exhibit 1: the assassination of Julius Caesar on the floor of the Senate. Indeed, am suspicious of pretty much all Western history these days; not everything is as terrible as many ‘protest a little too much about’, methinks, but also most of what we have been told is top-to-bottom lies, lies, lies, making it hard to form straightforward views about just about anything these days.

Exhibit 1: Ukraine.
Exhibit 2: Palestine-Gaza
Exhibit 3: US or UK Politics
Exhibit 4: WW II history
and so on ad infinitum...

Posted by: scorpion | Mar 31 2024 14:01 utc | 57

@Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 11:36 utc | 33

By the way the shortest day is on December, 21 not 25.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 31 2024 14:03 utc | 58

I have been a reader of Goethes Faust for 30 years, and then recently I discovered Christopher Marlowes The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus, and after that I got into the mystery of the death of Marlowe who was murdered as a very young writer, while Goethes version is written in the beginning and in the end of his life and near his peaceful death.

Posted by: Mio Nielsen | Mar 31 2024 14:09 utc | 59

Mijail Bulgakov (recently ¨canceled¨in Ukraine in spite of the fact that he was from Kiev), The Master and Margarita.

Posted by: c | Mar 31 2024 10:50 utc | 25

That true?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Mar 31 2024 11:22

Вот тру? (What true?)

Posted by: LongCovid | Mar 31 2024 14:12 utc | 60

Reading a synopsis of Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita just now, c posted, sounds thrilling!

Posted by: annie | Mar 31 2024 14:12 utc | 61

"By the way the shortest day is on December, 21 not 25."

And who cares, what difference does it make.

Everyone gets the idea: the birth of Jesus called "the Christ" (that is: the Christ to come) was placed (ca. 300/400) at the darkest time of the year to symbolize the birth of a hope in the darkness.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 14:19 utc | 62

[email protected] only thing that is true about human World history from the first day when we crawled out of the ground to great the rising sun is.....humans procreate and we are still here.

Cheers M:)

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 31 2024 14:25 utc | 63

Let's not forget the fundamentals

+John "the Baptist", beheaded
+Jesus "the Nazarene", crucified
+Stephen "the freedman", stoned to death
+James "the son of Thunder", beheaded
+James "the righteous," stoned

The Palace beheaded, the Temple stoned, the Empire crucified

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 14:31 utc | 64

"By the way the shortest day is on December, 21 not 25."

And who cares, what difference does it make.

Everyone gets the idea: the birth of Jesus called "the Christ" (that is: the Christ to come) was placed (ca. 300/400) at the darkest time of the year to symbolize the birth of a hope in the darkness.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 14:19 utc | 62

No, it was placed at the date of Saturnalia the Roman festival -the winter equinox

Why it was December 25 not December 21 is quite simple: Caesar changed the calendar as the old calendar didn't match the seasons-as a matter in fact 46 BC had 446 days as to match up with the new Caesarian calendar. Caesar under advice from Egyptian astronomers had it right but after Caesar's death the priests messed it up such that by the time of the Christians replacing Saturnalia with Xmas 4 more days had occured because of the priest's mistake.

"Victorious in civil war, Caesar reformed the calendar in 46 BC, coincidentally making the year of his third consulship last for 446 days. This new Julian calendar was an entirely solar one, influenced by Egypt's. In order to avoid interfering with Rome's religious ceremonies, the reform distributed the unassigned days among the months (towards their ends) and did not adjust any nones or ides, even in months which came to have 31 days. The Julian calendar was designed to have a single leap day every fourth year by repeating February 24[b] (a doubled VI. Kal. Mart. or ante diem bis sextum Kalendas Martias) but, following Caesar's assassination, the priests mistakenly added the bissextile (bis sextum) leap day every three years due to their inclusive counting. In order to bring the calendar back to its proper place, Augustus was obliged to suspend intercalation for one or two decades. This revised calendar remained slightly longer than the solar year. By the 16th century, the date of Easter had shifted so far away from the vernal equinox that Pope Gregory XIII ordered a further correction to the calendar method, resulting in the establishment of the modern Gregorian calendar." (2)

2.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 14:31 utc | 65

Let us look at the case of John "the Baptist".

In the New Testament, which is written by Pharisees (although they were very angry with other Pharisees and with the Sadducees), NT tells us a little story, and if we only had this source it would be impossible to get through the layer of literature.

But we have Flavius Josephus: John "the Baptist" is killed by one of the Herods as a preemptive strike because "he could think on his own" (!)

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 14:40 utc | 66

Was the sin that got Bulgakov canceled the fact that he wrote in Russian?

Posted by: Lysias | Mar 31 2024 14:41 utc | 67

The St. Petersburg manuscript is the clearest: John the Baptist "could think from himself" ("autó" says the Greek manuscript).

That is why one of the Herods beheaded him.

John "the Baptist" was the teacher of Jesus "the Nazarene".

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 14:48 utc | 68

Christ is Risen !

Posted by: Exile | Mar 31 2024 14:50 utc | 69

"I have been a reader of Goethes Faust for 30 years, and then recently I discovered Christopher Marlowes The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus, and after that I got into the mystery of the death of Marlowe who was murdered as a very young writer, while Goethes version is written in the beginning and in the end of his life and near his peaceful death."

Posted by: Mio Nielsen | Mar 31 2024 14:09 utc | 59

Apparently, Marlowe was a spy and a Catholic during Anglican Elizabeth's reign. That was his demise. The below is from Wiki but I have read other such accusations in the past I believe it is authentic history.

"Marlowe is alleged to have been a government spy.[23] Park Honan and Charles Nicholl speculate that this was the case and suggest that Marlowe's recruitment took place when he was at Cambridge.[23][24] In 1587, when the Privy Council ordered the University of Cambridge to award Marlowe his degree as Master of Arts, it denied rumours that he intended to go to the English Catholic college in Rheims, saying instead that he had been engaged in unspecified "affaires" on "matters touching the benefit of his country".[25] Surviving college records from the period also indicate that, in the academic year 1584–1585, Marlowe had had a series of unusually lengthy absences from the university which violated university regulations. Surviving college buttery accounts, which record student purchases for personal provisions, show that Marlowe began spending lavishly on food and drink during the periods he was in attendance; the amount was more than he could have afforded on his known scholarship income.[26][f]

Portrait of alleged "spymaster" Sir Francis Walsingham c. 1585; attributed to John de Critz
It has been speculated that Marlowe was the "Morley" who was tutor to Arbella Stuart in 1589.[g] This possibility was first raised in a Times Literary Supplement letter by E. St John Brooks in 1937; in a letter to Notes and Queries, John Baker has added that only Marlowe could have been Arbella's tutor owing to the absence of any other known "Morley" from the period with an MA and not otherwise occupied.[30] If Marlowe was Arbella's tutor, it might indicate that he was there as a spy, since Arbella, niece of Mary, Queen of Scots, and cousin of James VI of Scotland, later James I of England, was at the time a strong candidate for the succession to Elizabeth's throne.[31][32][33][34] Frederick S. Boas dismisses the possibility of this identification, based on surviving legal records which document Marlowe's "residence in London between September and December 1589". Marlowe had been party to a fatal quarrel involving his neighbours and the poet Thomas Watson in Norton Folgate and was held in Newgate Prison for a fortnight.[35] In fact, the quarrel and his arrest occurred on 18 September, he was released on bail on 1 October and he had to attend court, where he was acquitted on 3 December, but there is no record of where he was for the intervening two months.[36]

In 1592 Marlowe was arrested in the English garrison town of Flushing (Vlissingen) in the Netherlands, for alleged involvement in the counterfeiting of coins, presumably related to the activities of seditious Catholics. He was sent to the Lord Treasurer (Burghley), but no charge or imprisonment resulted.[37] This arrest may have disrupted another of Marlowe's spying missions, perhaps by giving the resulting coinage to the Catholic cause. He was to infiltrate the followers of the active Catholic plotter William Stanley and report back to Burghley.[38]" (1)

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Marlowe

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 15:08 utc | 70

We have

1) messages from diverse authors-voices involved in literature

2) local history of an agrarian society within the history of the Roman Empire. And we can reconstruct this history with the critical use of different sources, fitting into a logical framework and thanks to the documentation of agrarian societies from Mesopotamia onwards.

3) and then we can reach and return to deep meanings in an adult way without losing a lucid mind and a pure childish heart.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 15:12 utc | 71

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 15:08 utc | 71

Do you know William Cobbett's 'History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland'? Or Cobbett's many other works. He's a icon smashing fire-breather and most entertaining stylist.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Mar 31 2024 15:25 utc | 72

"It is finally spring, the darkness has vanished and this is my favored holiday."

---

The three dates are (and the truth is that we could be divided into three sects or schools-streams, LOL):

+ Christmas: a light is born in the deep darkness
+ Easter: "noruz" Persian: light arises (i can't play with the Persian resonances in english)
+ "St. John", the sun the highest

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 15:30 utc | 73

And now someone will come along and tell us that "noruz"/"nawruz" 2024 was March 20, indeed.

Posted by: Simon | Mar 31 2024 15:34 utc | 74

Happy Easter, b! Thank you for your traditional post.

As others have mentioned, Orthodox Easter is not yet, today being the Second Sunday of Lent. However, Sundays are not ever counted as part of Lent, being always a celebration, so we Orthodox celebrate with you. Christ is risen!

And as all Christians take continuity from the account in Genesis of the creation of the world, we do claim longevity as well. But it is fine to say that all myths and legends have elements of that 'archaic' (en arche) beginning, if you wouldn't mind a slight reversal.

"...Are either of you, or anyone else here, aware of a good article or short book going into the verifiable historicity of Christ?..."
Posted by: scorpion | Mar 31 2024 14:01 utc | 57

c and others have suggested Bulgakov's 'Master and Margarita'. That is my suggestion also, and you only need to read the first few chapters. The amusing discussion therein is of an editor with his poet friend/writer on that very subject, in a park in Moscow. If you purchase the Pevear and Volkhonsky translation, notes will supply some corrections to the conversation. I have described my introduction to their translation before, but here it is again:

Having already their translation of Dostoievski's 'The Brothers Karamazov', I was glad to see they had also translated the Bulgakov, so I made my way to the town's bus stop planning to ride the train to Santa Fe and purchase it from the bookstore there.

The bus stop is near our mailboxes area, and, occasionally, free books are placed on a shelf there. What do I find but the very novel itself! It was a dishevelled paperback, looking the worst for wear, indeed --- but wow. I treasure it still.

Here's Note 7:

Flavius Josephus:(AD37-100), Jewish general and historian, born in Jerusalem, the author of The Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews. Incidentally, Berlioz [the editor in the novel's first chapter] is mistaken: Christ is mentioned in the latter work.

As currently also, Michael Hudson appears to rely on mention of Christ in the Gospels, although his interpretation is somewhat narrow in focus, he being concerned with economics.

Indeed, He is Risen!

Posted by: juliania | Mar 31 2024 15:37 utc | 75

Thank you Todd. That is the real point of the matter....Christs taught us a method of quantum disentanglement and, by love, it works. Jesus called us to have "faith in works". Disproving his existence has become a major industry. Why are these spiritual industrialists predominately zionist attritionists? Hope I make more than a little sense. Happy Easter. It's now been copied as trans visibility day. How long can we keep April 8th at bay...no.pun.but it's black magic time for pagans. Eating chocolate and being fertile and chubby too. I guess. Lol.

Posted by: joandearc | Mar 31 2024 15:38 utc | 76

Uncomfortably Dumb 47

Well I am reading Sura Anfa'al and it say 'ere : God doesn't like people who pretend not to understand, and if He had made them understand, they wouldn't have agreed anyway.

I have no idea what you wrote but there's two meanings to the word dumb, those who can't listen and those who can't speak.

Nobody can listen to rantings of right wing politics, because a person who rants like Hitler is so obviously
Lying. All of the calls to jihad in Syria turned out to be to assist the US in subduing Syria for Greater Israel.

Pigeons come home to roost. Without the US, no call to jihad in Palestine, only to protect Al Aqsa.

So I've no idea if the problem was the politics of what you wrote or the theology. There is a vast amount of politics in religion. It really is a business in most cases, with territorial rivalries and plenty of corruption. All religion, including the Arab pagans.

Please don't give up. The present requirement is for explainers of Islam, because what is in the heart is what creates the actions. So if we change what is in the hearts, politics follows.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 15:41 utc | 77

Reading a synopsis of Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita just now, c posted, sounds thrilling!

Posted by: annie | Mar 31 2024 14:12 utc | 61

A great read. I've read it three times now, which puts it in very select company. I second Juliania's recommendation for the Pevear and Volkhonsky translation.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 31 2024 15:44 utc | 78

I thought I said "by jove". The Bible is filled with astrological references and I like to honor Plato. This Astral Place has many mansions/dimensions. The world is made of language...
truths and lies floating about in a massive sea of collective grey matter.

Posted by: joandearc | Mar 31 2024 15:51 utc | 79

Nowruz is the Persian celebration of Spring, the beginning of the New Year.
Iranian friends start little plots of grass to float down a stream, and set a table with seven symbolic items, presaging a healthy and holy new year.

The Russian music linked earlier reminded me of the music of Kayhan Kalhor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOH5YfwuGtk

Thank you, c, for mention of The Master and Margarita. I will spend the day enjoying it.

Thank you for the poem, b, and wishes that this Easter begins a thoughtful New Year at the bar.

Posted by: ChasMark | Mar 31 2024 15:57 utc | 80

"...of someone who will never return, who was, in canuck’s own words, wiser than he..."

Not a big hurdle..

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 16:01 utc | 81

Canuck 71

Thank you for that information about Marlowe. When I was reading English at University any info about Marlowe's politics went over my head because I didn't get into politics until visiting Israel in 1978 and the
appearance of the criminal Thatcher 1980 and then Yugoslavia.

Even now, all politics disgusts me.
I have always seen Dr Faustus as religious homily, but you have opened my eyes. Thanks.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 16:02 utc | 82

"Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 15:08 utc | 71

Do you know William Cobbett's 'History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland'? Or Cobbett's many other works. He's a icon smashing fire-breather and most entertaining stylist."

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Mar 31 2024 15:25 utc | 73

I know a bit about Cobbett and I have heard of the tome you are referring to yet I have never read any of Cobbett's work I am ashamed to admit.

I'll put it on the list.

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 16:03 utc | 83

Here comes a greeting from Ulthima Thule for Your great work, "B".
And this comment:
In England and Germania "Ostern(Easter" is the name of these holydays, I Svandinvis, Pinno-Scandia and on Iceeland an Greenland /Nauk, the appelation is variants of "Páske" --i.e. the Misratic/Babilonian/Thalmudic-Jewish name. I guess probably "Pesakh/Påske" comes too early to be a Spring festival. The real Spring Festival in Scandinavia occurs during the Pentacost (here called "Pinse") and has an earily glad faint to it.
I still have a few remnants of snow in our garden here. And up in high collenes north of Oslo Ski-racing is stil possible.
So much for the "Spring Festival" -- we'e´re still freezing from high elitricity prices whilst the local Qvisling government expots our hydro-electric power to Germany at one fifth of local price to Norwegian consumers.
Am I allowed to say this is a true conspirasion?

Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐/טלפ וש | Mar 31 2024 16:14 utc | 84

Robert E. Smith 73

Sorry you just can't get rid of bugs.
I worked for 12 years as a bookbinder
and conservator, which took me to a Minster Library full of apoplectic prose about the Reformation. I loved that job as much as I hated the apoplectic drivel. The God solved that problem by bringing me into Islam, which proved me right.

These leather tomes were FULL of garbage. Bogging off now. Bye.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 16:16 utc | 85

Tollef As 85

Sorry, but is it some Green politics that stops you from having a woodburning stove?
I walked between Norway and Sweden, staying in an empty cabin before going to Trondheim.
Without my stove I would freeze.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 16:32 utc | 86

While I wasn't here for a few hours, it seems that many decided to focus on the sentence:
"By the way the shortest day is on December, 21 not 25"
But chose to ignore completely the other part:

"However Sextus Julius Africanus wrote in 221 that he Christians were celebrating the annunciation on the equivalent of March, 25, so 9 months before December, 25."

So the oldest written reference that has survived is from the year 221 AD!

What this means is that claiming it's an adaptation to a pagan traditon (the winter's solstice a few days before) during the fourth century is a free assumption; you add 9 months and we can see a more likely reason why the christians of the fourth century started to celebrate christmas 9 months after another day that they used to celebrate at least 150 years earlier.
Even the celebration of the annunciation probably derived from a calculus made from Luke's gospel. John the baptist was supposed to be 6 months older than Jesus and Luke stated that his old father Zachariah was in the temple:
Luke, 1:8
"Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, [9] he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense."
Luke explained that Zacharia was of the class of Abia.
I have a source here (unfortunately in French) which refers to the work of Friedlieb (Leben J. Christi des Erlösers, Münster, 1887, p. 312). Refering on the schedule assigned to each class of priests to be alone in the temple, we can deduce that John the Baptist was conceived at the end of september. This explains why the early church was celebrating the birth of John the Baptist in June and the annunciation at the end of March in the second century.
https://www.iltaime.com/single-post/2018/02/09/noel-une-origine-purement-pa%C3%AFenne-non
The early christians, who were often jews, didn't need the works of Friedlieb or any expert to estimate when Jesus was born; not only could they rely on oral tales from his relatives & mother, they could also deduce it from Luke's gospel.

Posted by: Jean-Francois | Mar 31 2024 16:37 utc | 87

Christos Anesti, to all.

Posted by: Mary | Mar 31 2024 16:39 utc | 88

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 31 2024 16:02 utc | 83

I didn't do anything other than a quick search about Marlowe on the Google.

Glad it helped.

Have a good day

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 16:50 utc | 89

Happy Easter, b. You always have a good write-up about the history and the context of the holiday.

Posted by: Inka | Mar 31 2024 16:57 utc | 90

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 12:18 utc | 37

The original texts were written in Aramaic. Possibly the earliest texts we have are in Greek*, but those were translations & contain translation & misunderstood idiom errors.

* In the early 20th century there were isolated communities in Assyria that still followed their ancient culture & spoke their ancient Aramaic language.

Their Bible is a direct copy from the original Aramaic writings. In 1933, an Assyrian from one of those communities with advanced education in the west, so ESL fluent, published a corrected translation. There are some significant differences.

Posted by: Mary | Mar 31 2024 17:06 utc | 91

Mary | Mar 31 2024 17:06 utc | 92
*** In the early 20th century there were isolated communities in Assyria that still followed their ancient culture & spoke their ancient Aramaic language.
Their Bible is a direct copy from the original Aramaic writings. In 1933, an Assyrian from one of those communities with advanced education in the west, so ESL fluent, published a corrected translation. There are some significant differences.***

What happened to that version?
Did it get used anywhere in "the West"?

Posted by: Cynic | Mar 31 2024 17:23 utc | 92

@canuck | Mar 31 2024 15:08 utc | 71
Marlowe didnt die then. He went into exile, probably in Spain and probably under the protection of parts of the english elites. He returned in 1604 when the bishop Whitgift died. And several interested researchers believe that Marlowe was the real person behind William Shakespeare. Oxford university confirmed in 2016 that Marlowe was coauthor with Shakespeare but many who have investigated Shakespeare claim that the individual who really had that name couldnt possibly have written the works attributed to him.
Marlowe had been seen as blasphemous by Whitgift but it isnt likely that the official story is other than a cover.
Instead the reason he fell from grace may have been that Marlowe in his play the Jew of Malta exposed the role of the Maltese order in an unwanted manner. He did so by directly addressing the audience. He said those knights were the higher power above the moneylenders and despite that the Maltese knight in the play seemed to condemn the Jew Barabbas according to Marlowe Barabbas was actually working for him.
In that period the knights of Malta were sponsored by Venice and venetian agents had introduced freemasonry and the maltese order in England.
In around 1978 one Larouche associate, David Goldman, wrote that the Maltese Order was that kind of higher power above the bankers.
https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1978/eirv05n31-19780815/eirv05n31-19780815_031-revealed_who_runs_world_finance.pdf
Goldman was the economics editor.
I cant judge the merits of it however their are Knights of Malta among the Rojalty of Europe.
CIA bosses were also members
https://ia800608.us.archive.org/17/items/148063172CIAKnightsOfMaltaPdf/148063172-CIA-Knights-of-Malta-pdf.pdf

A quote from
Venice: The Methodology of Evil -- Part I
by Donald Phau
https://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/venphau1.htm
"In Christopher Marlowe's The Jew of Malta, the main character, Barabas, is skilled in the Venetian art of turning one's adversaries against each other to protect oneself. But Barabas foolishly fails to realize that he himself is a puppet of gamemasters at a higher level: the Knights of Malta for whom he performs as a money lender and financial wheeler-dealer. In the play's closing, Barabas reflects triumphantly--and yet pathetically--on his modus operandi, when he says:

``And thus roundly goes the business;
Thus, loving neither, will I live with both,
Making a profit of my policy;
And he from whom my most advantage comes,
Shall be my friend.''

To the audience, however, Marlowe has made it quite clear that Barabas is as much the victim as the victimizer."

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Mar 31 2024 17:50 utc | 93

When I pulled Marlowe into this (I believe I was the first) then I was afraid about being off-topic, because there is not a word about Easter in Doctor Faustus.
My main interest in both books is my concern, my lifelong doubts, about if should try to stop reading books. I believe I would be able to stop, but thats how addicts dream. Now, Faust is a man who has read a certain book. A book going against the will of God. Goethe was also such a man, having read a lot of books by free thinkers, and the whole lengthy work can be read as an apology for such a man.
Not Marlowes Faust. He goes to hell and before leaving life he utters the word: "I wish I never had taken a book in my hand."
In my opinion this is a matter about printed books. Faust is born shortly after the invention of printing.

Posted by: Mio Nielsen | Mar 31 2024 18:42 utc | 94

"Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 12:18 utc | 37

The original texts were written in Aramaic. Possibly the earliest texts we have are in Greek*, but those were translations & contain translation & misunderstood idiom errors.

* In the early 20th century there were isolated communities in Assyria that still followed their ancient culture & spoke their ancient Aramaic language.

Their Bible is a direct copy from the original Aramaic writings. In 1933, an Assyrian from one of those communities with advanced education in the west, so ESL fluent, published a corrected translation. There are some significant differences."

Posted by: Mary | Mar 31 2024 17:06 utc | 92

Some were in Aramaic, others in Greek.

I have an excellent book about the Early Aramaic Church but I can't find it-if I do-wife is working on it-I will reply more extensively

Posted by: canuck | Mar 31 2024 19:29 utc | 95

Be mindful of people who at this time of year fall into despair if they are alone and feel as if they are doomed. Suicides spike. An associate has become such a statistic over this weekend. Too young. Too late to help them now. Don’t tell me it’s gods will.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 31 2024 11:36 utc | 32

====================

But, what is it? Why fall into despair as spring unfolds?

Is it because the new unfolding reminds many that they are now on a roller coaster that they cannot get off and that cannot be slowed or stopped and, indeed, gathers speed until, inevitably, it grinds to a halt once again at darkness and the known denouement (for a year, or forever)?

Posted by: Jane | Mar 31 2024 19:41 utc | 96

Happy Easter b
Down here of course we're heading into winter, but that's a blessing in Sydney which can be a malarial swamp in Feb-March.

Don't forget the rites for Demeter and her daughter at Eleusis!

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 31 2024 21:20 utc | 97

It's not Easter Sunday in Russia until 5 May, and in any case, I'm a heathen, so —

Heill Óðinn!

😃

However, "Happy Easter" to all Western Christians!

Posted by: Moscow Exile | Mar 31 2024 9:42 utc | 12

Happy Easter to the whole bar, good, bad and ugly!

For the pagans who enjoy Russian military triumphs: a hymn to Odin!

https://youtu.be/M-43pOqheMY?feature=shared

Amon Amarth, Pursuit of the Vikings.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 31 2024 21:37 utc | 98

Oden! Guide our ships!
Our axes, spears and swords!
Guide us through storms that whip!
And in brutal war!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 31 2024 21:40 utc | 99

I made an egregious error...wikipedia is what i3zmt to say. Instead I said Wikileaks
Omg. So sorry everyone!

Posted by: joandearc | Mar 31 2024 22:21 utc | 100